There are multiple things to discuss here but first we have to make sure we are talking about apples and apples.
Paul's enthusiasm is for the Flex 5000. Frank's problems are not with that radio. Frank is using the the Janus/Ozzy combo but again, he is not having a problem with the radio or necessarily the HPSDR toys, his issue is with the Janus/Ozzy/PowerSDR SYSTEM attached to his gear. He may have 40 years experience in testing but that does not mean we should take Frank's word that he knows one single solitary thing about interfacing the AKM5394A's on Janus to an ancient receiver. I am certain in my own mind given my interaction with Frank he has done it perfectly. But my certainty is not proof. The scientific method would be to show me your test apparatus and the ENTIRE interface so I can analyze the SYSTEM since you are measuring a system. PowerSDR cannot contribute to the IP3. I will make a flat statement of that. Any problem you have like that is elsewhere in the system. I will argue these latter points more in #2 with clear evidence why and the answer to his Sherwood question. 1) Frank does not like the bloat in the PowerSDR. If you can find anyone in the software team from Eric Wachsmann who does a tremendous amount of work down to Frank (Brickle not Garcia) who does not want to touch it with a ten foot pole any more, you are a miracle worker. IT IS bloated. That is why we are slowing down on additions and starting to sit down and map out how to do the serious job in a serious way. Frank Brickle has written a seminal paper for the TAPR/ARRL DCC on FSM. Remember those letters. It is truly painful to add new features to the PowerSDR. The overlap and "cochannel interference" when you make changes to the software make it very difficult to maintain. The design for the next generation is getting under way now that the 5000 is out. We began this over two years ago and everything came to an utter stand still while we waited on SDR-X to solidify. Then the internal stealth switch to the 5000 and putting SDR-X on a shelf, put all work on hold. PowerSDR is a clanking clacking collection of cacaphonous calumnies that is deserving of a colossal collaboration of consenting cognescenti to capture the cordial consensus that we should blow it up and start over. 2) I will go along with Frank on trusting Rob Sherwood. I trust Frank will trust Rob Sherwood again when he finds the Flex 5000 at or near the top of the heap. As to your question, the delay in putting it up there (making me want to pull my three remaining hairs out and then start pulling them out of chest) is all about Rob having a book in the works and the results are being used in the book and an agreement not to publish the results until the book is out. So based on my knowledge of the Sherwood results, any problems Frank has with RX performance has almost nothing to do with the 5000 or the PowerSDR software. Rob Sherwood's test show it conclusively. Since Francis has said he will accept this: Quod Erat Demonstratum. Frank's performance issues are in the system he has put together with his RX because there ARE NO performance issues or any of the serious AGC issues Rob has raised lately in a most eloquent fashion in using the PowerSDR with the Flex 5000. So PowerSDR married to a good system, makes a good system on the performance tests. 3) I like, admire, etc. Alberto to the maximum possible degree. But comparing PowerSDR to SoftRadio is not appropriate. PowerSDR was an attempt to control a fixed piece of hardware (the SDR-1000) with support for radios not manufactured by Flex (try getting THAT out of IcYaKeTecEl) and an attempt to be all things to all people so FLex could sell radios. Alberto had the ultimately liberating conditions of having to satisfy NO ONE BUT HIMSELF. The comparison is utterly ridiculous. PowerSDR is an amazing achievement and Eric Wachsmann is a genius. Saying that, he is his worst critic and his peers are not happy either with leaving this as it is. Because of this "all things to all people" and "all on the same screen" is wrong headed. The GUI should inherit the personality the user wants and be completely dynamic in so doing. WHY are we doing a revolutionary radio with a fantastic sdr core and then making it look like a traditional radio. If Eric Scace wants to contest with it, it should be the ultimate light weight, nearly invisible thing he needs it to be NEVER taking focus off of his logging program. If Walt Dubose wants it to be an EMCOMM, RACES, CAP, digital interface initiated by ALE, you should not see it AT ALL. It should be a system service. If John Basilotto wants to hang out with Julius, Alan, Bob Heil, etc. and crank the different audio toys about, why does he need all that other useless stuff on the screen for other modes? It IS <SOFT>ware after all. If I take a software sledge hammer to the console for my purposes, it is easily fixed. So, yes, PowerSDR has grown organically as time has passed and it is beginning to have a muffin top over its belt. But it is pretty darn capable. We are not idiots and we do know how to do things better and I believe Gerald just might have given us a good vehicle to begin the great journey along the righteous path towards a truly liberating software radio SYSTEM of light weight processes, running those you need, showing what you need, AND NOTHING MORE. Yet even the vision I am attempting to paint for you here is too limiting. Man, I hope we can make the necessary business case that this is the right way to go. We need to show that customization built upon a bunch of light weight processes for control and only as much visible stuff as is needed to do the job makes this all as incredibly versatile and as malleable as it needs to be. On the measurement result: Frank, email Rob Sherwood and he will email you the results. Last but not least. I love it when Flex and/or PowerSDR wax enthusiastic. I would rather you be happy than sad or angry. But I want to take exception to one thing here. The enthusiasm in this case resulted in a breach of netiquette. Frank Garcia's email, included again below making my own breach of netiquette, was a private email. I would bet money Mssr. Garcia did not give permission for it to be quoted to the Flex Radio reflector. I would have gladly answered Frank in private, copying you. Bob N4HY K3PZ wrote: > Frank (WA1GFZ), > > Why don't post your observations/complaints on the Flex Reflector and debate > them with somebody alot more knowlegable than me. I am user/tester that > happens to love the new Flex 5K. I'm sure that Frank, Robert, Tim and some of > the other experts will be glad to debate you on your findings. > > 73 de > Paul Zora > K3PZ > Port Saint Lucie, FL > www.k3pz.com > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: FRANCIS CARCIA > To: K3PZ > Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2007 9:23 PM > Subject: Re: Flex > > > Paul, > I've been building and testing receivers for almost 40 years and into > anything new. > But I have to tell you the Flex software although cool to use is not as > great it could be. > I was quite surprised when my old RA6830 outperformed the Flex software > while the I2PHD was a bit better than the Racal with a stock Dell sound card. > I know Rob Sherwood and have verified his numbers within a dB on a number of > receivers. I trust his numbers over anything the ARRL does. Flex would have > impressed me if they were able to make the IP3 numbers with the preamp on. I > don't have an attitude problem with Flex at all. > I'm just stating real test results. Frank > > K3PZ <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > First of all you are not bursting MY bubble at all. I did not design the > Flex 5K nor do I program PowerSDR. You sound like you have somewhat of an > attitude problem about the Flex product line? I'm not sure why that may be > but if you take the time to read the Flex forum you would see some of Rob > Sherwood's comment that for some reason you don't beleive exist. Take your > rant to the Flex Reflector. Here is the URL: > > http://mail.flex-radio.biz/pipermail/flexradio_flex-radio.biz/2007-September/thread.html > > 73 de > Paul Zora > K3PZ > Port Saint Lucie, FL > www.k3pz.com > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: FRANCIS CARCIA > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2007 3:32 PM > Subject: Flex > > > I hate to burst your bubble but I have been running a homebrew > converter for almost a year now. I run a stock Racal RA6830 in parallel to > compare performance. I ran I2PHD software with a stock Dell sound card until > I got my HPSDR modules. Most of the time the performance was pretty equal but > I would give I2PHD software a very slight agvantage. When I got the HPSDR > boards working I was forced to change over to Flex software and all the gates > bloat that hangs off it. One night a few weeks ago I was on 160 AM and > conditions were really bad. Then I noticed no audio coming out of the > computer speakers while the Racal was still making usable audio. I could see > signal on the display but no audio even after I incresaed the signal into the > converter. > Yea you put two signals into the converter you do get good close in > performance but when there is lots of crud coming in the game changes. > I think if you did a real test on this stuff you will find there is a > way to go yet starting with the software falling all over its self....And BTW > I don't see an update on Rob's site. > I'm really into SDR but a $3 or $5K radio and a $3K computer is not > where I'm going anytime soon. I'll stick with my mil toys for now. Frank > WA1GFZ > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://mail.flex-radio.biz/pipermail/flexradio_flex-radio.biz/attachments/20070918/132a2e38/attachment.html > > _______________________________________________ > FlexRadio mailing list > FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz > http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz > Archive Link: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ > FlexRadio Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ > FlexRadio Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/ > > -- AMSAT Director and VP Engineering. Member: ARRL, AMSAT-DL, TAPR, Packrats, NJQRP, QRP ARCI, QCWA, FRC. ARRL SDR WG Chair "If you're going to be crazy, you have to get paid for it or else you're going to be locked up." Hunter S. Thompson _______________________________________________ FlexRadio mailing list FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archive Link: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ FlexRadio Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ FlexRadio Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/
