Hi all,
Someone once said every single person with two hands and two eyes wants a
different GUI. Seems to me, using vCom one can build any GUI wanted or
use any existing GUI, minimize PowerSDR and get on with (ham) life.
In fact one can argue very strongly PowerSDR should apply basic software
design principles and completely separate the GUI from the controller
("radio.") That being done we can have a multitude of GUIs... Layers of
abstraction, API's and all that good stuff... Simplicity of development,
ease of test etc, etc, etc.
As an example, the entire DXLab suite is a GUI for PowerSDR. That said,
I expect to run PowerSDR minimized most of the time. IHMO, vCOM/Kenwood
is a wonderful first cut at a loosely coupled standard between the
graphic user interface and the controller.
Just think, we can have DXing GUI's, Contesting GUI's, EME GUI's, rag
chewing GUI's, emergency Com GUI's and on and on, but just 1 (that's
right one) PowerSDR controller "radio."
IF I can have my GUI in peace and quiet...
Rob ;o))~
AB7CF
On Tue, 18 Sep 2007 23:53:41 -0400 Robert McGwier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
writes:
> There are multiple things to discuss here but first we have to make
> sure
> we are talking about apples and apples.
>
> Paul's enthusiasm is for the Flex 5000. Frank's problems are not
> with
> that radio. Frank is using the the Janus/Ozzy combo but again, he is
> not
> having a problem with the radio or necessarily the HPSDR toys, his
>
> issue is with the Janus/Ozzy/PowerSDR SYSTEM attached to his gear.
> He
> may have 40 years experience in testing but that does not mean we
> should
> take Frank's word that he knows one single solitary thing about
> interfacing the AKM5394A's on Janus to an ancient receiver. I am
> certain in my own mind given my interaction with Frank he has done
> it
> perfectly. But my certainty is not proof. The scientific method
> would
> be to show me your test apparatus and the ENTIRE interface so I can
>
> analyze the SYSTEM since you are measuring a system. PowerSDR
> cannot
> contribute to the IP3. I will make a flat statement of that. Any
> problem you have like that is elsewhere in the system. I will argue
>
> these latter points more in #2 with clear evidence why and the
> answer to
> his Sherwood question.
>
> 1) Frank does not like the bloat in the PowerSDR. If you can find
> anyone in the software team from Eric Wachsmann who does a
> tremendous
> amount of work down to Frank (Brickle not Garcia) who does not want
> to
> touch it with a ten foot pole any more, you are a miracle worker.
> IT IS
> bloated. That is why we are slowing down on additions and starting
> to
> sit down and map out how to do the serious job in a serious way.
> Frank
> Brickle has written a seminal paper for the TAPR/ARRL DCC on FSM.
> Remember those letters. It is truly painful to add new features to
> the
> PowerSDR. The overlap and "cochannel interference" when you make
> changes to the software make it very difficult to maintain. The
> design
> for the next generation is getting under way now that the 5000 is
> out.
> We began this over two years ago and everything came to an utter
> stand
> still while we waited on SDR-X to solidify. Then the internal
> stealth
> switch to the 5000 and putting SDR-X on a shelf, put all work on
> hold.
> PowerSDR is a clanking clacking collection of cacaphonous
> calumnies
> that is deserving of a colossal collaboration of consenting
> cognescenti
> to capture the cordial consensus that we should blow it up and start
> over.
>
> 2) I will go along with Frank on trusting Rob Sherwood. I trust
> Frank
> will trust Rob Sherwood again when he finds the Flex 5000 at or near
> the
> top of the heap. As to your question, the delay in putting it up
> there
> (making me want to pull my three remaining hairs out and then start
>
> pulling them out of chest) is all about Rob having a book in the
> works
> and the results are being used in the book and an agreement not to
> publish the results until the book is out. So based on my knowledge
> of
> the Sherwood results, any problems Frank has with RX performance has
>
> almost nothing to do with the 5000 or the PowerSDR software. Rob
> Sherwood's test show it conclusively. Since Francis has said he will
>
> accept this: Quod Erat Demonstratum. Frank's performance issues
> are in
> the system he has put together with his RX because there ARE NO
> performance issues or any of the serious AGC issues Rob has raised
> lately in a most eloquent fashion in using the PowerSDR with the
> Flex
> 5000. So PowerSDR married to a good system, makes a good system on
> the
> performance tests.
>
> 3) I like, admire, etc. Alberto to the maximum possible degree. But
>
> comparing PowerSDR to SoftRadio is not appropriate. PowerSDR was an
>
> attempt to control a fixed piece of hardware (the SDR-1000) with
> support
> for radios not manufactured by Flex (try getting THAT out of
> IcYaKeTecEl) and an attempt to be all things to all people so FLex
> could
> sell radios. Alberto had the ultimately liberating conditions of
> having
> to satisfy NO ONE BUT HIMSELF. The comparison is utterly
> ridiculous.
> PowerSDR is an amazing achievement and Eric Wachsmann is a genius.
> Saying that, he is his worst critic and his peers are not happy
> either
> with leaving this as it is. Because of this "all things to all
> people"
> and "all on the same screen" is wrong headed. The GUI should
> inherit
> the personality the user wants and be completely dynamic in so
> doing.
> WHY are we doing a revolutionary radio with a fantastic sdr core and
>
> then making it look like a traditional radio. If Eric Scace wants
> to
> contest with it, it should be the ultimate light weight, nearly
> invisible thing he needs it to be NEVER taking focus off of his
> logging
> program. If Walt Dubose wants it to be an EMCOMM, RACES, CAP,
> digital
> interface initiated by ALE, you should not see it AT ALL. It should
> be a
> system service. If John Basilotto wants to hang out with Julius,
> Alan,
> Bob Heil, etc. and crank the different audio toys about, why does
> he
> need all that other useless stuff on the screen for other modes? It
> IS
> <SOFT>ware after all. If I take a software sledge hammer to the
> console
> for my purposes, it is easily fixed. So, yes, PowerSDR has grown
>
> organically as time has passed and it is beginning to have a muffin
> top
> over its belt. But it is pretty darn capable.
>
> We are not idiots and we do know how to do things better and I
> believe
> Gerald just might have given us a good vehicle to begin the great
> journey along the righteous path towards a truly liberating software
>
> radio SYSTEM of light weight processes, running those you need,
> showing
> what you need, AND NOTHING MORE. Yet even the vision I am
> attempting to
> paint for you here is too limiting. Man, I hope we can make the
> necessary business case that this is the right way to go. We need to
>
> show that customization built upon a bunch of light weight processes
> for
> control and only as much visible stuff as is needed to do the job
> makes
> this all as incredibly versatile and as malleable as it needs to
> be.
>
> On the measurement result: Frank, email Rob Sherwood and he will
> email
> you the results.
>
> Last but not least. I love it when Flex and/or PowerSDR wax
> enthusiastic. I would rather you be happy than sad or angry. But I
>
> want to take exception to one thing here. The enthusiasm in this
> case
> resulted in a breach of netiquette. Frank Garcia's email, included
>
> again below making my own breach of netiquette, was a private
> email. I
> would bet money Mssr. Garcia did not give permission for it to be
> quoted
> to the Flex Radio reflector. I would have gladly answered Frank in
>
> private, copying you.
>
> Bob
> N4HY
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> K3PZ wrote:
> > Frank (WA1GFZ),
> >
> > Why don't post your observations/complaints on the Flex Reflector
> and debate them with somebody alot more knowlegable than me. I am
> user/tester that happens to love the new Flex 5K. I'm sure that
> Frank, Robert, Tim and some of the other experts will be glad to
> debate you on your findings.
> >
> > 73 de
> > Paul Zora
> > K3PZ
> > Port Saint Lucie, FL
> > www.k3pz.com
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: FRANCIS CARCIA
> > To: K3PZ
> > Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2007 9:23 PM
> > Subject: Re: Flex
> >
> >
> > Paul,
> > I've been building and testing receivers for almost 40 years and
> into anything new.
> > But I have to tell you the Flex software although cool to use is
> not as great it could be.
> > I was quite surprised when my old RA6830 outperformed the Flex
> software while the I2PHD was a bit better than the Racal with a
> stock Dell sound card. I know Rob Sherwood and have verified his
> numbers within a dB on a number of receivers. I trust his numbers
> over anything the ARRL does. Flex would have impressed me if they
> were able to make the IP3 numbers with the preamp on. I don't have
> an attitude problem with Flex at all.
> > I'm just stating real test results. Frank
> >
> > K3PZ <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > First of all you are not bursting MY bubble at all. I did not
> design the Flex 5K nor do I program PowerSDR. You sound like you
> have somewhat of an attitude problem about the Flex product line?
> I'm not sure why that may be but if you take the time to read the
> Flex forum you would see some of Rob Sherwood's comment that for
> some reason you don't beleive exist. Take your rant to the Flex
> Reflector. Here is the URL:
> >
>
http://mail.flex-radio.biz/pipermail/flexradio_flex-radio.biz/2007-Septem
ber/thread.html
> >
> > 73 de
> > Paul Zora
> > K3PZ
> > Port Saint Lucie, FL
> > www.k3pz.com
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: FRANCIS CARCIA
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2007 3:32 PM
> > Subject: Flex
> >
> >
> > I hate to burst your bubble but I have been running a
> homebrew converter for almost a year now. I run a stock Racal RA6830
> in parallel to compare performance. I ran I2PHD software with a
> stock Dell sound card until I got my HPSDR modules. Most of the time
> the performance was pretty equal but I would give I2PHD software a
> very slight agvantage. When I got the HPSDR boards working I was
> forced to change over to Flex software and all the gates bloat that
> hangs off it. One night a few weeks ago I was on 160 AM and
> conditions were really bad. Then I noticed no audio coming out of
> the computer speakers while the Racal was still making usable audio.
> I could see signal on the display but no audio even after I
> incresaed the signal into the converter.
> > Yea you put two signals into the converter you do get good
> close in performance but when there is lots of crud coming in the
> game changes.
> > I think if you did a real test on this stuff you will find
> there is a way to go yet starting with the software falling all over
> its self....And BTW I don't see an update on Rob's site.
> > I'm really into SDR but a $3 or $5K radio and a $3K computer
> is not where I'm going anytime soon. I'll stick with my mil toys for
> now. Frank WA1GFZ
> >
> > -------------- next part --------------
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>
> --
> AMSAT Director and VP Engineering. Member: ARRL, AMSAT-DL,
> TAPR, Packrats, NJQRP, QRP ARCI, QCWA, FRC. ARRL SDR WG Chair
> "If you're going to be crazy, you have to get paid for it or
> else you're going to be locked up." Hunter S. Thompson
>
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