"Truth" is well defined. It is the set of propositions which assert that what is the case is the case. Determining whether a given proposition is true may be difficult.
--- Frank C. Wimberly 140 Calle Ojo Feliz, Santa Fe, NM 87505 505 670-9918 Santa Fe, NM On Mon, Oct 9, 2023, 10:23 AM glen <geprope...@gmail.com> wrote: > OK, I agree, mostly. But "truth" is no more well-defined than any other > specific grounding style. E.g. the insistence that there is truth in > fiction. There is affective truth in MAGA, just like there's truth in > whatever justification Hamas might give for its reaction to the bloodshed > of the Israeli settlements. But such truths are so abstracted, they can be > [a|mis]used at will and the narrative spin used to whip up the adherents > provides any glue needed to make it seem as true as it needs to seem to > spur the adherents to action. > > It's a bad analogy from, say, Hamas to shut up and calculate. But it can > be made. It's fun watching intra-science tribe members pick at each other > for their sloppiness in communicating science. E.g. Sabine's take on > transitioning. Whatever. If a tribe polices itself, then their > trustworthiness is much higher ... for me, at least. I'm glad the > Republicans are in a civil war. It's evidence they may recover as a party. > If people stop telling me I'm wrong, then I'm most likely very wrong. As > long as I've still got people telling me I'm wrong, then I'm at least > somewhere near not-wrong. > > > On 10/9/23 08:24, Marcus Daniels wrote: > > I mean there are some categories that are disjoint or mostly disjoint. > Similarly, the grounding is not total. I agree that value systems like > MAGA have power, but they don't have truth. There is no truth. All there > is, is power, which is my point. QM and demagoguery are both tools, with > different contexts for use. > > > >> On Oct 9, 2023, at 7:48 AM, glen <geprope...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> > >> Hm. Even with the caveat of "generally", I think this complementarity > argument fails because all the various categories are not disjoint. And > it's the (somewhat) lack(ing) of grounding/binding that allows the mixing > of the modes. I'd tried to point this out by using "computation", the idea > that human innovation might be more universal than microbial innovation. > It's not really that the values *lack* grounding. It's that their grounding > is complicated, perhaps iterative? maybe heterarchical? IDK, but certainly > not lacking any grounding. > >> > >> An abstracted value system like that of the 09A OR MAGA cults may have > *more* power, more chances to hook and unhook because it gives the donner > and doffer of that value system more opportunities to do the donning and > doffing at whatever arbitrary points they choose, to lazily benefit > themselves without having to handle any unintended/unconsidered entailments. > >> > >>> On 10/8/23 18:18, Marcus Daniels wrote: > >>> This doesn't make them more valuable because they lack grounding. > >> > >>> On 10/8/23 13:21, Marcus Daniels wrote: > >>> Generally attaching to one value system means not attaching to another > value system. For example, adopting the value of tolerance logically is > at odds with policing intolerance, e.g., one Jewish neighbor remarked this > morning he drove past a home with a Hamas flag on it and was scared. > (Reducing that fear by removing the flag would be reducing tolerance.) > >>> It seems to me that ideas that work have power and things that don’t > work don’t have power. > > -- > glen > > -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. . > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom > https://bit.ly/virtualfriam > to (un)subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > archives: 5/2017 thru present > https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ > 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/ >
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