On Wed, Jun 11, 2014 at 10:23 AM, clay <claytonw...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, June 10, 2014 9:47:13 PM UTC-5, Josh Berry wrote: >> >> Apologies, I was a definitely too absolute in my claim. I was more just >> going on admittedly anecdotal evidence that most truly cross platform >> applications that aren't a) ugly, or b) dog slow are not written in Java >> and related languages. I'm definitely open to counters. >> >> But, once you get that list made, compare it to the number of >> applications that are heavily used in many platforms and the language they >> used. From the Kernel, which is on near everything, to browsers. Mozilla >> is at least making a stab with a new language that will compete with >> C/C++. It isn't clear this will win, though. >> >> > When you say Java apps are "slow", "ugly" and not "heavily used", you are > talking about apps like web browsers, chat clients, shell terminals, and > media player apps: Java isn't the best fit for that. > Isn't this just restating my point, in some respects? There are some niches where Java works really well. It probably *could* work better than it gets credit for cross platform development. Especially in a world of lots of resources. However, by and large, it just hasn't. Any of the cases that are pointed out are often perfect fits for "the exception proves the rule." > At university, I used lots of Windows only apps like PSpice for simulating > electric circuits, and CAD desktop apps, and various instrumentation > desktop applications: they weren't cross platform, and the GUIs were > extremely ugly, wonky, glitchy. Java would be a better fit if those tools > were ever rewritten. > > I worked for a company that made CAE desktop application software. Their > GUIs were either Tcl/Tk or based in Windows only C++ MFC and used some > porting technology: Java would have been radically easier to develop, > looked better, and ran faster for end users. > These are convenient assertions, but again, I would like evidence. Especially since I've heard nothing but good things for Tcl/Tk. IDEs are often the standard example of where Java GUI is an appropriate dev > tool. They aren't unusually ugly and the slowness is a direct result of > their functionality, not the GUI technology. > IDEs are an interesting bag, though. Eclipse had to invent their own toolkit to come close to making it work. And, I have not heard anyone praise any of the main IDEs for looks in a long time. IDEA comes close, yet they are almost a definite exception to this rule. Just as Minecraft stands up as the definitive (and nearly only) java game worth talking about. (There is also the fact that it seems only java IDEs are written in java.) > Some guys I work with do graph data analysis, and use many tools including > a visualization tool called GePhi that is written in Java: it's a very > appropriate GUI technology. The GUI is nice, pleasant, and responsive, and > we have people using it flawlessly on Mac/Linux/Windows. > > I'll have to take a look. Sounds nice. > Also, and I apologize if this is basically goal post shifting, but when I >> refer to cross platform, I don't necessarily mean just linux/mac/windows. >> I mean something that can run on the raspberry pi, or aduino, or *any* >> phone/tablet/whatever. Obviously, not just any C program can be made to >> fit this bill. But, to my knowledge, no Java program can. (Of course, >> maybe Angry Birds is all it takes to prove me wrong. Or Scumm games, in >> general. :) ) >> > > Sure, lots of people want phones, Raspberry Pi, etc beyond workstation OS. > People do have Java apps including JavaFX running on iPhone and Rasberry > Pi, although it may not be the best option. People have Java games using > libgdx running from mostly one source code base on iOS and Android and > Win/Mac/Linux > > I am still not seeing much to dissuade me of the believe that Java just isn't that good for this. Can it be done? I mean, obviously in a turing complete sense of the word, yes. Does it truly make things easier? I'm not convinced. Evidence seems to show it doesn't. Don't get me wrong. I still agree that it *should*. I'm just saying it has far from lived up to that promise. To the point that I don't even see it touted much anymore. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Java Posse" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to javaposse+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to javaposse@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/javaposse. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
