Linux-Advocacy Digest #285, Volume #27 Fri, 23 Jun 00 16:13:11 EDT
Contents:
Linux Was Already On The Desktops In 10% Of Companies One Year Ago! (Mark S. Bilk)
Re: Lost Cause Theater!!! (abraxas)
Re: Lost Cause Theater!!! (abraxas)
Re: Microsoft Ruling Too Harsh (Henry Blaskowski)
Re: Lost Cause Theater!!! (Oscar)
Re: Microsoft Ruling Too Harsh (Henry Blaskowski)
Re: Anti-Human Libertarians Oppose Microsoft Antitrust Action (was: Microsoft Ruling
Too Harsh (Henry Blaskowski)
Re: Linux Usage Surveys (was: High School is out...here come the trolls...who can't
accept the future. (James Lee)
Re: MacOS X sceptic (was Re: Dealing with filesystem volumes) (Raymond N Shwake)
Re: Anti-Human Libertarians Oppose Microsoft Antitrust Action (was: Microsoft Ruling
Too Harsh (Henry Blaskowski)
Re: Anti-Human Libertarians Oppose Microsoft Antitrust Action (was: Microsoft Ruling
Too Harsh (Donovan Rebbechi)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Mark S. Bilk)
Subject: Linux Was Already On The Desktops In 10% Of Companies One Year Ago!
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.misc,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 02:42:36 GMT
By going to this web page, and clicking on the free data
link, one can access various industry surveys taken as late
as one year ago -- 2Q99 (more recent ones cost a dollar a
minute to access):
http://www.infotechtrends.com/freedemo.htm
Thanks to WhyteWolf for posting this one, which you get by
checking the "web" box:
99Q2 - Percent of Web servers using each operating system.
Percent of Web servers using each operating system.
Windows NT 26%
Linux 21%
Solaris 16%
BSDI 11%
SGI (IRIX) 9%
Free BSD 8%
JOURNAL/SOURCE/TITLE DATE PAGE
VARBUSINESS/ 12-Apr-99 58 Netcraft/
*GENERATION LINUX - NIPPING NT's HEELS
So, Linux had almost caught up to Windows NT in web server
market share a year ago, and the most popular Unix systems
combined exceeded NT's share by 2.5 to 1 (.65/.26).
But if you instead check the boxes for "software" and
"systems", you can get this report:
99Q2 - Percent of information technology managers using
or planning to use Linux as a general purpose desktop
or workstation operating system.
Currently Use 10%
Use Within 12 Months 20%
No Plans 68%
Don't Know 1%
JOURNAL/SOURCE/TITLE DATE PAGE
VARBUSINESS/ 12-Apr-99 54 InformationWeek/
*GENERATION LINUX - NEXT STOP: DESKTOP
One year ago, when KDE and Gnome, along with hardware and
installation support, were much less developed than they
are now, Linux was already in use on the desktop/workstation
computers of 10% of all businesses. The figure may now
be 30%, if the managers planning to switch to Linux have
followed through.
GNU/Linux/OSS is not only growing in market share, it is so
much fun to use and to develop software for that many thou-
sands of people are working to improve the operating system
and the applications, and to add new apps. There are hundreds
of such projects with teams of people working on them. Almost
all are independent of any corporation and are under the GPL,
so as long as *anyone* is interested in them, the work will
continue.
For those who want to use various MS-Windows software, some
of which is not yet ported or functionally duplicated for
Linux, there are three systems that will allow Linux to run
some of it -- Wine (free), VMware ($99 for personal use),
and Trelos Win4Lin ($49, like VMware with easier file access
but no sound support). These three systems are constantly
being improved.
The next LinuxWorld Conference and Expo is August 14-17 in
San Jose, Calif. The last one was huge! Meet Linus and RMS.
Pet a real penguin! Register now to get in to the exhibits
(Aug. 15-17) for free ($25 at the door).
http://www.linuxworldexpo.com/
Life is good!
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (abraxas)
Subject: Re: Lost Cause Theater!!!
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.admin.networking,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 18:46:42 GMT
In comp.os.linux.advocacy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>>Or do people like Simon777 really feel threatened by the Linux
>>advance?
>
> What advance?
>
> It's like the Polish army riding over the hill on horses while the
> Germans had tanks..
>
> I'll bet the Germans were howling with laughter, just like Winvocates
> do every time Linux and how it's taking over the market is discussed.
>
Aaaahhh...Comparing winvocates to the german army during WWII.
Apropos, tek.
Dresden? Care to comment?
=====yttrx
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (abraxas)
Subject: Re: Lost Cause Theater!!!
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.admin.networking,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 19:25:54 GMT
In comp.os.linux.advocacy Martijn Bruns <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> My productivity is just fine, thank you. Your productivity would
> probably be brought to nil, because you probably took five years
> to get your MCSE. MCSE is a course to learn how to move your
> mouse to exactly the right spot and click, nothing more. You
> probably need followup-courses to learn how to use the other
> mouse button, too. I've seen one of the involved books from a
> family member. It's really a joke, ok?
>
Actually, in order to get an MCSE, one must not only know all about
how to point and click, but one must learn the specifics of how
microsoft broke every networking protocol they could. Remember kids,
on all those microsoft tests: Never put down the right answer. Put
down what microsoft tells you to.
=====yttrx
------------------------------
From: Henry Blaskowski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
misc.legal,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.libertarian,talk.politics.libertarian
Subject: Re: Microsoft Ruling Too Harsh
Date: 23 Jun 2000 19:47:44 GMT
In talk.politics.libertarian [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>>
>>You are correct. If I agree to work night and day for somebody
>>for some amount of money, it is nobody's business except mine and
>>the person I made the agreement with. If I want to sell my body
>>for sexual favors, it is nobody's business except mine and the
> You are attempting to confuse marginally immoral/unethical/illegal
> actions with a situation where more than likely one party in the
> "contract" has remarkably more control over the situation than the
> other.
No, the parties had equal pull in all cases. If no vendors would
sell MS products, MS would be screwed, because it would open the
door for competing OS's, such as Linux. This is the ONLY reason
they offered deep discounts -- to get more users. So if there is
an imbalance of power, it is with the PC vendors who have their
choice of OS's, forcing MS to offer discounts.
------------------------------
From: Oscar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.admin.networking,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Lost Cause Theater!!!
Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 19:45:04 GMT
All our machines are going to slow down if this thread with it's giant
cut and pastes don't stop.
So to be the slightly different one on this thread, I'll state some
facts and not quote the previous posts.
I do Windows. I like Linux and appreciate what it does. Right now,
being MCSE is my paycheck. As soon as Linux is a little more popular,
and my paycheck needs another boot, I'll use Linux more. (What can I
say, I'm greedy)
Linux is more stable. Windows is more popular. (Here's a tip, you'll
never have both; as long as braindead AOL users and the rest of the
stupid population have access to a computer.)
It's simple logic. The simpler something is, the more stable it is.
As Linux moves on to support more apps, platforms and stupid users,
Linux will become less stable. I promise you that.
Microsoft runs the world, Microsoft is cocky. As with all champions in
sports and politics, sometimes the little man has to punch the cocky
guy square in the mouth to get his attention. I hope everyday that
Linux swings this punch really hard. Because until MS thinks that
someone else can make an OS, their products and support will suck.
Realize that 99% of the reason that MS is where they are today is
because no one else has been there to compete with them. If Linux had
a fair start in this race this conversation would be different. MS had
a 20 year headstart. Luckily for Linux, MS has been snoozing under a
tree for the last 10 years.
There isn't a single other OS that will run as many places as Windoze.
They have too many partners and they've been the big dog on the street
for too long. No other company could ever dream of catching MS and
writing an OS to compete. Other companies have tried and failed
several times. The only company with a chance is the general public.
That just might give Linux enough edge to wake MS up and make a race
out of this.
Bets that I'll make today:
1. Linux will continue to gain market share.
2. MS will eventually wake up and start running.
3. Linux will never overtake Windoze (MS might be slow, but not THAT
slow)
4. Most of the people reading this post have already stopped reading,
to start flaming me.
Note to Linux dudes out there: Remember Macintosh, Amiga, and OS/2?
Lots of people thought/knew that those products were better. They got
cocky and lost to Billy boy. Also I don't sub the linux forum, I
caught this on an NT support forum, if ya wanna flame me, email me.
-Craig
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: Henry Blaskowski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
misc.legal,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.libertarian,talk.politics.libertarian
Subject: Re: Microsoft Ruling Too Harsh
Date: 23 Jun 2000 19:51:00 GMT
In talk.politics.libertarian The Tibetan Traveller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Which is why I think the judge in this case should be jailed for
>> crimes against freedom of contract.
> I understand your postion that there should be no anti-trust law. I
> don't understand why you insist on demonizing the judge for upholding a
> law passed by congress, signed by the president, and upheld by the
> supreme court. If you want to argue that the law should be repelled,
> fine. Argue that position. If you want to argue that the judge made
> a mistake in interpetting or applying the law, fine! Argue that
> position. But it is silly to argue that the judge is immoral for
> finding Microsoft guilty because you disagree with the law.
The judge should have recognized the case is immoral and thrown
it out immediately.
>> Because if he can interfere
>> in a voluntary consensual contract of two business,
> Contract law allows judges to declare contracts, null and void, if they
> are signed under duress. And the courts, unlike you, do not limit
> the definition of duress to physical violence.
There was no duress in this case, there was just an offer of a deal
which PC vendors accepted happily.
>> morally this
>> is no different than his right for me and you to agree to split
>> dinner, even if one of us ordered a more expensive entree. It
>> is the same issue, the same morality.
> This is a gross oversimplification of a complex issue. On the moral
> scale, I think it would be closer to your boss telling you that if
> you didn't buy him dinner every night, you will be fired.
No, because I never agreed to that. The vendors, on the other hand,
agreed to accept the deep discounts in exchange for certain conditions.
------------------------------
From: Henry Blaskowski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,misc.legal,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.libertarian,talk.politics.libertarian
Subject: Re: Anti-Human Libertarians Oppose Microsoft Antitrust Action (was: Microsoft
Ruling Too Harsh
Date: 23 Jun 2000 19:53:49 GMT
In talk.politics.libertarian salvador peralta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Hmmm...geee, watch out for those black helicopters. I don't have any
>> strange policies that you discuss, nor does anyone else I know, so I
>> assume this is more troll than serious. At any rate, I don't support
>> deception or coercion or harming others,
> You have repeatedly defended coercion, deception, and harming others in
> this thread.
Don't be silly. You are the one who wishes to use the armed agents
of the federal government to interfere in a voluntary consensual
contract. You are the one who wants to harm the millions of MS
shareholders, and the thousands of hard workers at MS by stealing
their product.
------------------------------
From: James Lee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux Usage Surveys (was: High School is out...here come the trolls...who
can't accept the future.
Date: 23 Jun 2000 19:55:57 GMT
In comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy Charles Philip Chan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> No you are not, there are lots of people in the Linux World who use
> Junkbuster (it is part of most distros) including me. My browser
> string is set to "Non.of.your.Business ver. 4.0" ;-).
er. actually, I meant the x86 solaris.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Raymond N Shwake)
Crossposted-To: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
Subject: Re: MacOS X sceptic (was Re: Dealing with filesystem volumes)
Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 18:51:25 GMT
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (void) writes:
>On Tue, 20 Jun 2000 18:40:13 +1200, Lawrence DčOliveiro
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>>Mac users just don't see the point in UNIX on the desktop. (Nor, it appears,
>>does anybody else, for that matter...)
To most users, mention of an "operating system" makes them think of ER.
Most users know only the desktop in their face and the applications they run.
Assuming the presentation remains consistent, they can usually judge whether
a new release is more or less reliable, if it adds more bells and whistles,
and if it runs faster or slower. OS/X should raise both the robustness and
functionality levels compared to current releases, as well as improve the
aesthetics.
The user may have heard that UNIX is supposed to be "hard to use",
so we won't tell him what's underlying his new experience. We don't want to
scare him or her away; it'll just be our little secret.
>You're not looking hard enough.
>I used to administer a lab full of animation workstations -- PCs running
>NeXTStep. The users had varying levels of computer knowledge, but none
>of them had any unix experience, and none of them used the command line
>at all. They were able to use NeXTStep without difficulty. Meanwhile,
>I could administer the machines efficiently because I could treat them
>like unix boxes.
Absolutely true. Years ago I set up a little UnixWare box with
Merge to allow a user to run Enable. She clicked on an icon, which opened
the box starting her application. (No different than she might click on
a Windows icon.) The box was more stable than the DOS box it replaced; it
also handled network print jobs and copied files over the LAN to a UNIX
server for backup nightly without the user knowing or caring.
------------------------------
From: Henry Blaskowski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,misc.legal,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.libertarian,talk.politics.libertarian
Subject: Re: Anti-Human Libertarians Oppose Microsoft Antitrust Action (was: Microsoft
Ruling Too Harsh
Date: 23 Jun 2000 20:04:19 GMT
In talk.politics.libertarian salvador peralta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> Sigh.... MS did not deny ANYONE the right to sell Windows, ever.
> 1. micros~1 refused to port windows nt to dec's alpha if digital went
> ahead and developed an os in collaboration with oracle.
> 2. micros~1 refused to continue their partnership with ibm if ibm
> continued to develop os/2 and threatened to force ibm to 'buy
> the softare off the shelf" if they went ahead with os/2
Gee, they refused to spend millions of dollars on a project for
somebody if that other company decided to make the project a guaranteed
loss. How un-American.... Do you know of any successful companies that
routinely intentionally invest in money-losing projects?
> 3 micros~1 refused to break their licensing agreements of windows 95 with
> compaq, toshiba, and micron, if they bundled netscape with the oem
> versions of the os.
They expect people to keep their contracts that they made. How
un-american. I guess you think contracts should just be flexible
guidelines that can be ignored at any time.
> 4. micros~1 created false error messages in early versions of win 3.1
> when win 3.1, which was fully compatible with dr-dos, when it encountered
> dr-dos and then destroyed the evidence in an attempt to cover their
> tracks.
They created the product, they should be able to do what they want
with it, even if it means making it work worse.
> 5. micros~1 has deliberately inserted hostile code in releases of the os
> to damage the proper functioning of competitors products. I have one
> example of this with wordperfect and another with netscape navigator
> gold 3.11
Gee, they stayed ahead of their competitors. How un-american. I guess
we better shut down all successful businesses.
> 6. micros~1 broke its licensing agreement with sun by making visual j++
> incompatible with sun's version of java
If true, this is a contract issue, not a federal anti-trust issue.
> 7. micros~1 has repeatedly used vaporware release announcements to prevent
> potential competitors from entering the commercial marketplace.
This is more about the nature of the industry than anything MS in
particular did.
> 8. micros~1 deliberately withheld portions of the win32 api to give their
> office developers a competitive advantage over their "partners" who
> offered a competitive product
Gee, they helped those who helped them. How un-american.
> 9. micros~1 refused to honor a licensing agreement with netscape, and in
>so doing prevented the company from doing business with several isp's.
>which ultimately contributed to netscape's near-insolvency and subsequent
> takeover/bailout by aol.
If true, this is a contract issue, not a federal anti-trust issue.
> 10. Internal memos from the company suggest that they have routinely used
> a pattern of fud tactics (fear uncertaintly and doubt) to harm the
> public's perception of their competitors products
As long as they have not used tactics that cross into fraud (e.g.,
claiming the competitor will erase your hard drive), they are free
to claim whatever they want. Have you watched TV commercials lately?
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Donovan Rebbechi)
Crossposted-To:
alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,misc.legal,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.libertarian,talk.politics.libertarian
Subject: Re: Anti-Human Libertarians Oppose Microsoft Antitrust Action (was: Microsoft
Ruling Too Harsh
Date: 23 Jun 2000 20:06:22 GMT
On 23 Jun 2000 19:53:49 GMT, Henry Blaskowski wrote:
>In talk.politics.libertarian salvador peralta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Don't be silly. You are the one who wishes to use the armed agents
>of the federal government to interfere in a voluntary consensual
>contract.
The "voluntary, consensual" contracts have already been discussed. We
do not believe that they are substantially more voluntary and consensual
than anal rape at gun point.
> You are the one who wants to harm the millions of MS
>shareholders,
If the MS shareholders are profiteers of illegal activity, maybe they should
be "harmed".
Then again, IMO now is a really goo time to buy MS stock. It's way undervalued
right now. A lot of former holders purchased MS because it was perceived as
"safe" and now they're all panicking because of the uncertainty.
> and the thousands of hard workers at MS by stealing
>their product.
This is a straw man. The case is not about "stealing" a Microsoft product.
Indeed, it would be illegal to take Windows away from Microsoft. Jackson
knocked this one dead very early in the discussion about remedies.
--
Donovan
------------------------------
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End of Linux-Advocacy Digest
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