Linux-Advocacy Digest #191, Volume #27 Mon, 19 Jun 00 16:13:07 EDT
Contents:
Re: 10 Linux "features" nobody cares about. (Matthias Warkus)
Re: Why X is better than Terminal Server (Matthias Warkus)
Re: Can Linux do this? KIOSKS - Lite Linux desktop? Lock-down configs? (JEDIDIAH)
Re: Can Linux do this? KIOSKS - Lite Linux desktop? Lock-down configs? (Matthias
Warkus)
Re: Linsux as a desktop platform (Matthias Warkus)
Re: An Example of the Superiority of Windows vs Linux (Matthias Warkus)
Re: democracy? (Matthias Warkus)
Re: Linux Project at Medfield High School (mike burrell)
Re: 10 Linux "features" nobody cares about. (Craig Kelley)
Re: 10 Linux "features" nobody cares about. (Craig Kelley)
Re: 10 Linux "features" nobody cares about. (Craig Kelley)
Re: Can Linux do this? KIOSKS - Lite Linux desktop? Lock-down configs? (JEDIDIAH)
Re: What UNIX is good for. (Raymond N Shwake)
Re: [Fwd: Newsweek US Edition: Microsoft's Six Fatal Errors] (Leslie Mikesell)
stability of culture of helpfulness (Oliver Baker)
Re: [Fwd: Newsweek US Edition: Microsoft's Six Fatal Errors] (abraxas)
Re: stability of culture of helpfulness (JEDIDIAH)
Re: The Tholenbot (was: Microsoft invites Canada south) (EdWIN)
Re: Windows2000 Server Resource Kit $299! Welcome to the twilight zone (Leslie
Mikesell)
Re: stability of culture of helpfulness (Dances With Crows)
Re: Dealing with filesystem volumes (tinman)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Matthias Warkus)
Subject: Re: 10 Linux "features" nobody cares about.
Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 17:56:31 +0200
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
It was the Sun, 18 Jun 2000 15:59:23 -0400...
...and Jeff Szarka <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Well, when you say Linux can run on a 386 most people expect it to be
> just like it would be on a P3-550.
"Most people." So you've done a survey on this?
My bet is you haven't even asked a *single* person how they think
Linux will run on a 386 machine.
> >> Linux is more flexibbal than Windows but most people hardly ever learn
> >> how to use all of Windows so they're never going to care about
> >> removing parts they don't use or adding other things.
> >
> >That's true. But is it a reason to cripple the power users?
>
> I don't think Microsoft has. Lets assume a power user wants access to
> decent command line tools... cmd.exe plus a ton off freeware tools
> works very well.
Why bother with an OS where you need third-party tools that do not
come on the installation CD?
Why bother with an OS that comes on only one CD anyway? I'd rather
take a Linux distribution that ships with the kitchen sink -- no extra
software to buy, download or copy; and it's cheaper than Windows, too.
> Lets assume a power user wants a customized UI, there
> are many free shell replacements for Windows... some are quite good.
> There are countless tweaks for the basic UI as well.
Why bother with an OS where those tweaks and customisations need to be
downloaded, bought or copied separately?
Not mentioning that, due to the Windows tradition, this stuff will
probably be unfree (shareware or such) unlike most Linux software.
mawa
--
... the web is the world's largest vanity press, with all that
entails.
-- Diane Wilson, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Matthias Warkus)
Subject: Re: Why X is better than Terminal Server
Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 17:51:02 +0200
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
It was the Sun, 18 Jun 2000 16:10:57 -0400...
...and Jeff Szarka <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Fonts are the most basic and most universal problem of Linux window
> managers.
If you don't know what you're talking about, shut up. No window
manager handles fonts(*). Fonts are rendered by the X server, sometimes
by the widget set.
(*) Except for Enlightenment, wm2 and wmx who render their titlebar
fonts pixel-by-pixel.
> I mention it fist because it's one of the most annoying
> issues. KDE is a Windows 9x UI clone
It isn't.
> and not a very good one at that.
Probably because it never aimed at being a Windows clone. If you look
for a Windows clone in KDE, you won't find a good one.
mawa
--
Zu Rachmaninow habe ich noch nie gedübelt.
-- Dietmar Warkus
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (JEDIDIAH)
Crossposted-To: alt.comp.linux,comp.os.linux.hardware,comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Re: Can Linux do this? KIOSKS - Lite Linux desktop? Lock-down configs?
Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 18:12:09 GMT
On Mon, 19 Jun 2000 18:50:33 +0100, Niall Wallace <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>If Netscape 3 could run on a Win 3.1 486 33Mhz with 4Mb Ram on a 14"
>monitor then I am sure even the newest versions can run on a 486 in Linux.
Claiming that anything 'ran' on Win3x under 4M would be an overstatement.
[deletia]
CRAWL would be a more accurate description.
--
If you know what you want done, it is quite often more useful to
tell the machine what you want it to do rather than merely having
the machine tell you what you are allowed to do.
|||
/ | \
Need sane PPP docs? Try penguin.lvcm.com.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Matthias Warkus)
Crossposted-To: alt.comp.linux,comp.os.linux.hardware,comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Re: Can Linux do this? KIOSKS - Lite Linux desktop? Lock-down configs?
Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 18:01:03 +0200
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
It was the 19 Jun 2000 06:02:43 -0500...
...and Tim Palmer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >- Simple web browser with low memory requirements; must be easy to use for
> >people familiar with IE and Netscape.
>
> You can iether use Netscape, which requiars more RAM and a faster CPU, or you can
>use AREENA,
> which isnt' finnished and probably never will be.
Arena is obsolete anyway, it has been replaced by Amaya, but when I
need a lightweight browser, I use w3m anyway.
mawa
--
When you become used to never being alone,
you may consider yourself Americanized.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Matthias Warkus)
Crossposted-To: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linsux as a desktop platform
Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 18:03:38 +0200
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
It was the Mon, 19 Jun 2000 13:05:15 GMT...
...and [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I disagree. Centralized processing is a waste. You need to get a
> monstrously powerful central server if you're going to be splitting up
> the CPU horsepower between many people. It's easier and cheaper to just
> let people have computers on the desktop. This is why mainframes failed
> for the mostpart. They were big, hard to administer, ridiculously
> expensive, and still too underpowered to do what was being asked. Now
> we've got PC's that are steadily creeping toward 4-digit Mhz ratings,
> there's no need for centralized processing anymore.
I suspect this is why all those departmental servers, workgroup
servers, central servers, data warehouses, Web servers, RDBMS servers
and such that one used to find in the cupboards, racks and cellars of
a typical office building have been replaced by peer-to-peer networked
workstations long ago.
mawa
--
When you become used to never being alone,
you may consider yourself Americanized.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Matthias Warkus)
Subject: Re: An Example of the Superiority of Windows vs Linux
Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 17:59:31 +0200
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
It was the 18 Jun 2000 20:40:24 GMT...
...and Darren Winsper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Tue, 13 Jun 2000 15:03:26 -0400, Tim Palmer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > In Windows:
> >
> > Put the CD in.
> > Close it.
> > Click on its icon in "My Computer".
> >
> > Simple. It works. Does it work on Linux? No.
>
> Funny you should mention that. I bought a Microsoft Sidwinder
> Precision Pro joystick the other day. When I went to install the
> driver off the CD, I put it in the drive, autorun kicked in and...
>
> *HONK* (My error sound)
> "This program has performed an illegal blah blah blah". Ho hum...
Another case in point:
All I use Windows for is as a gaming platform. But even for that
purpose, it's become pretty useless. Except for I-War, on my new
machine, strictly none of the Windows 95 games that used to work on my
old one run.
mawa
--
... the web is the world's largest vanity press, with all that
entails.
-- Diane Wilson, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Matthias Warkus)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: democracy?
Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 19:55:57 +0200
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
It was the 19 Jun 2000 15:19:48 GMT...
...and Desmond Coughlan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On 19 Jun 2000 14:14:18 GMT, Kari Pahula <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > >The US is very democratic. If a clear majority of people
> > >agreed on an issue there isn't a official or corporation that could
> > >stop them from making it law. There are limits to what commercials
> > >can convince people to do, and to want.
>
> > A majority agrees on an issue and does what? Elects a representative.
> > That's no democracy, that's elect-a-king! Even the most honest and
> > righteous get corrupted by the lack of accountability. Elections
> > every few years are a way too weak guarantee for their good behavior.
> > The SIGs will have plenty of time to do their magic, serving SIGs is
> > also the best way to get enough visibility to get elected.
>
> It's slightly off-topic for this newsgroup, but I'm not entirely conv-
> inced that democracy is a Good Thing. The average voter has the
> intelligence of a dormouse, and if enough dormice get together, they
> can inflict untold savagery on their own citizens, as well as those of
> other countries. Just look at the death penalty ... :-(
Whom else do you want to reign, if not the people?
mawa
--
Kakaoschlürfer!
Karpfenteichangler!
Kinderradmonteur!
Kleingeldsammler!
------------------------------
From: mike burrell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux Project at Medfield High School
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.help,comp.os.linux.questions,comp.os.linux
Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 18:20:42 GMT
In comp.os.linux.help Tim Palmer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> "Healp me my text-baste UNIX mailreder cant rede HTML!"
?? you should probably get a different mailreader then.
--
/"\ m i k e b u r r e l l
\ / ASCII RIBBON CAMPAIGN [EMAIL PROTECTED]
X AGAINST HTML MAIL
/ \
------------------------------
Subject: Re: 10 Linux "features" nobody cares about.
From: Craig Kelley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 19 Jun 2000 12:25:53 -0600
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Pete Goodwin) writes:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Craig Kelley) wrote in
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
> >And with Microsoft's new "No Windows CD" policy, they will need to
> >purchase a new license for Windows every time they get a new hard
> >drive or motherboard/processor/BIOS.
> >
> >Somehow, I think Linux is going to be become much more attractive once
> >people figure out they can't do *anything* with their "setup" CD other
> >than re-format (and lose) all their work when they need to reinstall.
> >OEMs can no longer use the %SYSTEM ROOT%\OPTIONS\CABS setup anymore;
> >and the copy of "Windows" the user recieves only works on that machine
> >(unless you go out and pay up to hundreds of dollars for the retail
> >version).
>
> Any my PC came with the OS install in Windows\Options. What's to stop me
> backing this up?
UCITA and the DMCA both make this illegal. You are using a
technological means to circumvent a copy-protection scheme. If you
don't mind pirating software and trampling over copyright law, then go
ahead and abuse the license you paid for.
Or, you could use Linux... ;-)
--
The wheel is turning but the hamster is dead.
Craig Kelley -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.isu.edu/~kellcrai finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP block
------------------------------
Subject: Re: 10 Linux "features" nobody cares about.
From: Craig Kelley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 19 Jun 2000 12:26:51 -0600
Jeff Szarka <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> On Sun, 18 Jun 2000 14:23:11 -0500, "Bobby D. Bryant"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >Oh, yeah. You still haven't pointed out the lie.
>
> I think I have. Linux runs about as well on a 386 as DOS does. The lie
> is that Linux is going to somehow bring your old machines back to
> life.
But Linux does so much more than DOS.
--
The wheel is turning but the hamster is dead.
Craig Kelley -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.isu.edu/~kellcrai finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP block
------------------------------
Subject: Re: 10 Linux "features" nobody cares about.
From: Craig Kelley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 19 Jun 2000 12:29:02 -0600
Michael Marion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> mlw wrote:
>
> > And this is why Microsoft spent millions (billions?) making terminal
> > server?
>
> Making? I think you mean copying from Citrix. :)
Hey! They bought that innovation fair and square. Citrix is a
strategic partner[1] of Microsoft now.
--
[1] In lay terms: Someone who will shortly go out of business after
Microsoft sucks any useful ideas out of them.
--
The wheel is turning but the hamster is dead.
Craig Kelley -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.isu.edu/~kellcrai finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP block
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (JEDIDIAH)
Crossposted-To: alt.comp.linux,comp.os.linux.hardware,comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Re: Can Linux do this? KIOSKS - Lite Linux desktop? Lock-down configs?
Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 18:30:54 GMT
On Mon, 19 Jun 2000 18:01:03 +0200, Matthias Warkus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>It was the 19 Jun 2000 06:02:43 -0500...
>...and Tim Palmer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >- Simple web browser with low memory requirements; must be easy to use for
>> >people familiar with IE and Netscape.
>>
>> You can iether use Netscape, which requiars more RAM and a faster CPU, or you can
>use AREENA,
>> which isnt' finnished and probably never will be.
>
>Arena is obsolete anyway, it has been replaced by Amaya, but when I
>need a lightweight browser, I use w3m anyway.
Also keep in mind that all a kiosk web browser on Linux would
need run is the browser itself and X. You don't need to load
a window manager or the rest of the desktop that would necesarily
be running under Windows or MacOS.
[deletia]
You might even be able to tweak the priority of Netscrape to get
it running faster on obsolete hardware that's not running anything
else.
--
If you know what you want done, it is quite often more useful to
tell the machine what you want it to do rather than merely having
the machine tell you what you are allowed to do.
|||
/ | \
Need sane PPP docs? Try penguin.lvcm.com.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Raymond N Shwake)
Crossposted-To: comp.unix.advocacy
Subject: Re: What UNIX is good for.
Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 15:38:17 GMT
Ray Chason <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>>Seeing as WebTV has a higher market share than Linux, it might not be
>>a bad idea.
I think your numbers are wrong. WebTV reportedly has only about
1.5 million subscribers, and there are certainly more than 1.5 million
Linux installations out there today. Maybe you're referring to Microsoft's
share of the Interactive TV market, but a big chunk of very little is still
very little.
>Market share isn't everything. There are more Fords than Ferraris on the
>road. But which would *you* rather have?
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Leslie Mikesell)
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Newsweek US Edition: Microsoft's Six Fatal Errors]
Date: 19 Jun 2000 13:56:31 -0500
In article <BAs35.11732$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Charlie Root <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>I am still wondering why Newsweek Web site in New Yorkis being redicted to
>MSNBC at Redmond, WA. Do Microsoft owns Newsweek, too? If so, no wonder.
>If not, why being redirected? This special Newsweek issue is on print
>anyway. M$ can't forbid people to read the print.
>
Yes, this is very scary. All references to
http://www.newsweek.com/ are now going to
http://www.msnbc.com/news/nw-front_front.asp
which sort-of looks like Newseeks page and
thus implies you might find unbiased news
here. (And the error message from archived
paths is now gone - you just land here instead).
However, if you follow the business or technology
links you find things highlighted and literally in
the banner ad positions that are critical of AOL
and things favorable to Microsoft.
What's going on here?
Les Mikesell
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: Oliver Baker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: stability of culture of helpfulness
Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 19:02:32 GMT
Hi,
This is a delayed crosspost that I first made to alt.os.linux. I've had
one helpful reply so far, but it would be still more help to hear a
couple more.
Although I'm neither business savvy nor computer savvy, I'm writing an
article for a trade magazine on the subject of a big company that has
chosen Linux for its very big PC cluster. The business people at this
company consider Linux a great way to save money on computer support
costs--not just because they believe it to be more trouble-free, but
because they feel they can just log onto the net and get expert free
help any time, thus eliminating the need for most of their support
staff.
I have a couple questions:
1)Does this make sense--that they could reduce their support staff? (and
if so, by how much? if anybody cares to make an estimate.)
2) Is this culture of on-line helpfulness impervious to a)increasing
numbers of Linux users, b)increasing numbers of queries from Linux users
at companies who--it might be perceived--could afford to hire people to
generate in-house the answers they are instead getting through the
kindness of strangers.
So far, one person has said it doesn't matter what the affliation is of
who is asking (though their perceived attitude does).
I'd be grateful for any comments.
- Oliver Baker
.
.
.
.
------------------------------
From: abraxas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Newsweek US Edition: Microsoft's Six Fatal Errors]
Date: 19 Jun 2000 19:12:31 GMT
Leslie Mikesell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> In article <BAs35.11732$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> Charlie Root <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>I am still wondering why Newsweek Web site in New Yorkis being redicted to
>>MSNBC at Redmond, WA. Do Microsoft owns Newsweek, too? If so, no wonder.
>>If not, why being redirected? This special Newsweek issue is on print
>>anyway. M$ can't forbid people to read the print.
>>
> Yes, this is very scary. All references to
> http://www.newsweek.com/ are now going to
> http://www.msnbc.com/news/nw-front_front.asp
> which sort-of looks like Newseeks page and
> thus implies you might find unbiased news
> here. (And the error message from archived
> paths is now gone - you just land here instead).
> However, if you follow the business or technology
> links you find things highlighted and literally in
> the banner ad positions that are critical of AOL
> and things favorable to Microsoft.
> What's going on here?
Microsoft is trying to fool you, and theyve drastically underestimated your
intelligence and computer experience. I.e.; theyve assumed that you're
one of their customers.
=====yttrx
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (JEDIDIAH)
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: stability of culture of helpfulness
Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 19:15:02 GMT
On Mon, 19 Jun 2000 19:02:32 GMT, Oliver Baker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Hi,
>
>
>This is a delayed crosspost that I first made to alt.os.linux. I've had
>one helpful reply so far, but it would be still more help to hear a
>couple more.
>
>Although I'm neither business savvy nor computer savvy, I'm writing an
>article for a trade magazine on the subject of a big company that has
>chosen Linux for its very big PC cluster. The business people at this
>company consider Linux a great way to save money on computer support
>costs--not just because they believe it to be more trouble-free, but
>because they feel they can just log onto the net and get expert free
>help any time, thus eliminating the need for most of their support
>staff.
>
>I have a couple questions:
>
>1)Does this make sense--that they could reduce their support staff? (and
>if so, by how much? if anybody cares to make an estimate.)
...less problems less people. Although they could likely get
the same effect by dumping any Win9x seats in favor of NT.
However, Linux and Unix in general allow for remote management.
This remote management could even be offsite and subcontracted.
[deletia]
--
If you know what you want done, it is quite often more useful to
tell the machine what you want it to do rather than merely having
the machine tell you what you are allowed to do.
|||
/ | \
Need sane PPP docs? Try penguin.lvcm.com.
------------------------------
Subject: Re: The Tholenbot (was: Microsoft invites Canada south)
From: EdWIN <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 12:22:08 -0700
Johnathan D. Hogue <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Karl Knechtel) wrote:
>> tholenbot (tholenbot@dhcp-hasbrouck-200-
125.resnet.cornell.edu) wrote:
>> : In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> : wrote:
>> : > If it were a real, even only vaguely human, being, such
as they
>may
>> : > harbour not at Ann but at Cornell, he/she would have
picked
>> : > the intentional blooper which you may find in one of the
[snip
>me]'s.
>>
>> : My last reply to you was generated using the Eliza clone
that comes
>with
>> : Emacs.
>>
>> Prove it, if you think you can.
>>
>> : How predictable that you failed to recognize this fact,
>>
>> On what basis do you make this claim?
>>
>> : as well as the fact that the nature of the replies in that
last
>message
>> : was a clear departure from my usual posting style.
>>
>> Illogical, as he is not "a regular" to Tholenbot threads, and
>therefore
>> should not be expected to recognize your "usual posting
style".
>>
>> : This bot
>>
>> Which bot?
>>
>> : picked up on your reference to Eliza and switched its
botting
>> : algorithms as a result, so either it's not really a bot or
it's more
>> : advanced than any bot its author has ever witnessed.
>>
>> On what basis do you claim to know what bots "its author has
ever
>witnessed"?
>>
>> : > Welcome back, Hasan B. Mutlu, glad to see you are risen
from the
>> : > grave!
>>
>> : Does it surprise you that a posting identity with "bot" in
its name
>> : would behave in a bot-like manner?
>>
>> Non sequitur.
>>
>> : Perhaps you should try using your brain.
>>
>> How ironic.
>>
>> : > Are you still with AT&T?
>>
>> : You erroneously presuppose that I was ever "with" AT&T.
>>
>> Incorrect. He presupposes that Hasan B. Mutlu was "with" AT&T.
>> Reading comprehension problems again?
>>
>> : [Ed. Yes, I have considered writing a real Tholenbot.
>>
>> Prove it, if you think you can.
>>
>> : Several times in fact.
>>
>> Irrelevant.
>>
>> : I have written a Bill Gates simulator,
>>
>> Irrelevant.
>>
>> : but it just talks to you,
>>
>> Incorrect.
>>
>> : it doesn't reply. I've never found the time to tackle
writing a
>real
>> : Tholenbot.
>>
>> Balderdash. You would have had plenty of time had you not
wasted it by
>> tholenbotting the "old-fashioned" way. How embarrassing!
>>
>> : But hope springs eternal.]
>>
>> Prove it, if you think you can.
>>
>> : --
>> : Prove that it's just a flesh wound, if you think you can.
>>
>> Meanwhile, where is your logical argument? Why, nowhere to be
seen!
>>
>> Karl Knechtel {:>
>> da728 at torfree dot net
>>
>
>
>What is all this crap?
Don't you know?
>
>--
>John Hogue
>
>
>Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
>Before you buy.
>
>
Got questions? Get answers over the phone at Keen.com.
Up to 100 minutes free!
http://www.keen.com
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Leslie Mikesell)
Subject: Re: Windows2000 Server Resource Kit $299! Welcome to the twilight zone
Date: 19 Jun 2000 14:31:37 -0500
In article <Dit35.16612$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
whistler@ <blahblah> wrote:
>FAQS are good, sometimes! But again it doesn't fullfil the original posters
>comments that you can get the same type of information for free with Linux
>in the same packaging as is contained in the Microsoft Windows 2000 Server
>Resource Kit. Fact is you can't. You can buy, usually for less the same type
>of information in a bound copy for Linux as Microsoft Press is selling for
>$209($29.86/volume U.SofA prices). It may not be a whole lot less if it has to
>span the same 7 volumes.
Note, though, that the real details and the ability to change them
come only with access to the source code. You can get that
free with Linux. You won't get it at all from Microsoft Press
no matter how glossy and expensive their packaging might be.
Les Mikesell
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Dances With Crows)
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: stability of culture of helpfulness
Date: 19 Jun 2000 15:42:22 EDT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Mon, 19 Jun 2000 19:02:32 GMT, Oliver Baker
<<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> shouted forth into the ether:
>Although I'm neither business savvy nor computer savvy, I'm writing an
>article for a trade magazine on the subject of a big company that has
Interesting.
>The business people at this
>company consider Linux a great way to save money on computer support
>costs--not just because they believe it to be more trouble-free, but
>because they feel they can just log onto the net and get expert free
>help any time, thus eliminating the need for most of their support
>staff.
>
>1)Does this make sense--that they could reduce their support staff? (and
>if so, by how much? if anybody cares to make an estimate.)
Not really, at least not in the short term. Free help from Usenet is a
mixed bag. Sometimes you get exactly what you're looking for right away,
sometimes you get misleading information, sometimes you get flames,
sometimes you get completely ignored. Also, in the beginning of the
switchover, there would be a big need for some support staff onsite/easily
reachable as lots of users/admins run into common problems and/or get
confused.
After users settle in and get used to reading man pages/HTML docs, support
costs would drop. I think companies could have fewer people, but they
might need more competent people. (2 Unix BOFH-types at $90,000 each is
less expensive than 6 tech-support Bobs at $30,000 each, factoring in
health insurance/benefits/etc.) ICBW on all that, of course.
>2) Is this culture of on-line helpfulness impervious to a)increasing
>numbers of Linux users, b)increasing numbers of queries from Linux users
>at companies who--it might be perceived--could afford to hire people to
>generate in-house the answers they are instead getting through the
>kindness of strangers.
Good question. <soapbox>I believe that I am *required* to help people
with Linux support, as my code's full of nasty quick hacks and I'm too
poor to give loads of cash to the FSF, yet I need to give back to the
community in some way. As such, if I can help somebody, I will, whether
they're Joe Home User or Jane Corporate User. Linux has been built on a
culture of altruism and knowledge-sharing; we should keep it up as much as
possible and encourage those who've learned something to share it.
</soapbox>
That said, I'd be more motivated, less sarcastic/bitchy, and able to help
more people if somebody were paying me by the hour to solve Linux
problems.
--
Matt G / Dances With Crows /\ "Man could not stare too long at the face
\----[this space for rent]-----/ \ of the Computer or her children and still
\There is no Darkness in Eternity \ remain as Man." --David Zindell "So did
But only Light too dim for us to see\ they become Gods, or Usenetters?" --/me
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (tinman)
Crossposted-To: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
Subject: Re: Dealing with filesystem volumes
Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 15:44:14 -0400
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Craig Kelley
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] (tinman) writes:
>
> > In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Joe
> > Ragosta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > > In article <8ijkeh$6pp$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Christopher Smith"
> > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > I think Zips are treated like a big floppy disk, but things like Jaz
> > > > drives
> > > > are treated like removable hard disks.
> > >
> > > So much for consistency in Windows.
> >
> > Well, considering that the Jaz is a removable media HD, and the Zip a high
> > density floppy.....
>
> There is no difference.
>
Sure there is, one's got a hard platter, and the other doesn't. ('
--
______
tinman
------------------------------
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