Linux-Advocacy Digest #191, Volume #35 Wed, 13 Jun 01 13:13:10 EDT
Contents:
Re: Where is American pride?... (was Re: European arrogance and ignorance...)
("Edward Rosten")
Re: IBM Goes Gay ("Edward Rosten")
Re: Where is American pride?... (was Re: European arrogance and ignorance...)
("Edward Rosten")
Re: European arrogance and ignorance... (was Re: Just when Linux starts
getting good, Microsoft buries it in the dust!) ("Edward Rosten")
Re: More micro$oft "customer service" ("Daniel Johnson")
Re: OT: Where is American pride?... (was Re: European arrogance and ignorance...)
("Edward Rosten")
Re: Linux penetration MUCH lower than previously claimed (Craig Kelley)
Re: What language are use to program Linux stuff? ("Edward Rosten")
Re: Linux penetration MUCH lower than previously claimed (Craig Kelley)
Re: Linux penetration MUCH lower than previously claimed ("JS \\ PL")
Re: So what software is the NYSE running ? (Ed Allen)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Edward Rosten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Where is American pride?... (was Re: European arrogance and
ignorance...)
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 18:14:24 +0100
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Thaddius Maximus"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> "Matthew Gardiner (BOFH)" wrote:
>>
>> "Edward Rosten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>> news:9g7njd$9ko$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> > > Cultured? The French/Germans/Italians are cultured, the British are
>> > > no more cultured than the Americans.
>> >
>> > The average levelof culture is falling rapidly, but we've got a long
>> > way to go to catch you guys up. Still proud to be forging a new path
>> > at the head of the world?
>> >
>>
>> The Conservative's had a crushing defeat :) well, it definately shows
>> that the British public aren't about to be sucked into the "lower tax"
>> hype created by the Bush admin. in the US. Well, hopefully Tony
>> Blaire's second term will be a good one. Oh, also, what's even better,
>> we know who won! unlike the US election that just dragged on and on.
>> Mind you, I never followed it, esp. when a nation that preaches
>> democracy doesn't practice it when election time rolls around.
>>
>> Matthew Gardiner
>>
>
>
> If you are going to bash the US incessantly please understand that the
> USA is a republic and NOT a democracy.
It's a representative democracy.
-Ed
--
(You can't go wrong with psycho-rats.) (u98ejr)(@)(ecs.ox)(.ac.uk)
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------------------------------
From: "Edward Rosten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: IBM Goes Gay
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 18:17:06 +0100
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
"pip" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Edward Rosten wrote:
>>
>> >> I have recently been singing the praises of BBC Basic. Will that do?
>> >
>> > The Z80 was the best processor ever made.
>>
>> Gak!
>>
>> 6502 rules OK!
>>
>
> What are you two on about ???? There is no debate here : it was the
> MC68000 (and is the processor where I tried my hand at assembly coding).
> Not your 8-bit junk in a 1-bit computer.
>
> :)
No fair!
The 68000 is newer (I think).
To be honest, I've only done assembly coding for the 6502 and it was
pretty good fun. It is quite amazing the performance you can get if you
do it by hand.
-Ed
--
(You can't go wrong with psycho-rats.) (u98ejr)(@)(ecs.ox)(.ac.uk)
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------------------------------
From: "Edward Rosten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Where is American pride?... (was Re: European arrogance and ignorance...)
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 18:20:53 +0100
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Stephen Cornell"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> "Matthew Gardiner \(BOFH\)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> [pasteurised cheese]
>> I think you can, if you went to a shop with a good range of cheese. It
>> is normally located around the Deli section of the supermarket.
>
> It's rare, and becoming rarer in Britain. The EC keep trying to kill it
> off, for the absurd reason that it carries a health risk. I'm happy at
> the moment, because I smuggled a few cheeses back from France this
> weekend that smell (and look) like something that had crawled behind the
> fridge and died six months ago :)
yay! Now we can have a holy war about which cheese it best :-)
I'm quite a fan of proper mature English Cheddar
>> oh, btw, we also have unpasteurised beer as well :)
>
> But I bet it's fizzy and too cold :-)
What is your tipple of choice?
Fortunately they sell Old Speckled Hen in my college bar. It's not my all
ime favourte, but its good enough.
-Ed
--
(You can't go wrong with psycho-rats.) (u98ejr)(@)(ecs.ox)(.ac.uk)
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------------------------------
From: "Edward Rosten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: European arrogance and ignorance... (was Re: Just when Linux
starts getting good, Microsoft buries it in the dust!)
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 18:22:11 +0100
In article <9g6n1h$i05$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
>> More ideally, we should've listened more carefully to Patton, and just
>> taken the USSR when we had the chance.
>
> How would that have helped? the US benefited in that the Soviet Union
> created the first biological weapon, when the US originally thought it
> would be impossible. First person in space, first sat. in space, first
> woman in space, first space station in space,
Not to mention the most successful (longest running) spacestation.
-Ed
--
(You can't go wrong with psycho-rats.) (u98ejr)(@)(ecs.ox)(.ac.uk)
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------------------------------
From: "Daniel Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: More micro$oft "customer service"
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 16:26:50 GMT
"Tim Adams" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> in article IIwV6.78543$[EMAIL PROTECTED],
> Daniel Johnson at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 6/12/01 6:28
> PM:
> >> Nope. Give me some URLs.
> >
> > Hmm. Well, Apple uses quite a few of them.
> > Check out, for instance:
> >
> > http://developer.apple.com/macosx/gettingstarted/
> >
> > A bunch of the links on this page are to PDFs.
>
> but the original claim was 'using PDF's to create web pages, not 'having
> links to PDF files on a web page.
It's the same thing.
> Now show us a link to a PDF web page.
Oh, if you insist:
http://developer.apple.com/techpubs/macosx/DeveloperTools/ProjectBuilder/Abo
utBox/AboutBox.pdf
That'll get mangled by OE fer sure. :(
[snip]
------------------------------
From: "Edward Rosten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: OT: Where is American pride?... (was Re: European arrogance and
ignorance...)
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 18:33:51 +0100
>> I think that is a good thing. A single smoker can affect many
>> nonsmokers around himself. it really is a very deply unpleasant thing
>> to put up with if your not a smoker. Basically if you're sensitive to
>> cigarette smoke you are completely prevented from going to places where
>> people are free to smoke.
>
> Exactly. This goes back to my "your freedom prevents others' freedoms".
> You can smoke all you want in your house or car, but don't stand right
> outside my office building and breathe your smoke on everyone that
> passes by. I have Asthma and it's a serious deal when I breathe smoke.
> Perhaps I'll sue the tobacco companies and get $3 billion too =)
> (j/k).
I agree in this entirely. It is very unevnly weighted, one smoker can
"suppress" many other people at the same time which is why I think that
it should go in favour of the non smoker. I home that some time soom we
get really strict non smoking laws in the UK soon. Unfortunately, I doubt
this will be the case, but at least indoor public places are mainly non
smoking.
>> Ha ha! LOL! We always get packets full of "Sillica Gel Do Not Eat".
>> Well, that's what I assume its called because that's always written on
>> the packets :-)
>
> I have a saying... "If there's a sign warning against it, that means
> someone actually tried it". Apparently, they had a problem with people
I never thought of that, but I can see the logic.
> eating Sillica Gel at one point. I also noticed the signs at the
> airport
The mind boggles. Why on earth would people think that random products
came with a little bit of food for them to eat?
> warning about not brining aerosol cans, or paint, or explosives on a
> plane. Apparently, they had a problem with this at one point.
How can we ever expect people like this to ever master something as
complex as a hammer, never mind a computer?
(OK, so that was a lame attempt to get back on topic :-)
-Ed
--
(You can't go wrong with psycho-rats.) (u98ejr)(@)(ecs.ox)(.ac.uk)
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------------------------------
From: Craig Kelley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux penetration MUCH lower than previously claimed
Date: 13 Jun 2001 10:40:28 -0600
"Mike" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> "mlw" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > Jon Johansan wrote:
> >
> > [big snip]
> >
>
> [more snipped]
>
> > I think pre-installed sales figures are inherently misleading. We bought
> one
> > copy of RedHat, and installed that on twelve servers, which had shipped
> with
> > Windows 95. There is no was that sort of install behavior can be tracked,
> and
> > that is the normal behavor.
>
> Actually, that kind of behavior can be tracked, but it takes longer to do,
> and is more difficult.
>
> > I think I would like to see the breakdown of the operating systems sold on
> > server machines. If a big honking server ships with Windows 95, I think we
> can
> > be sure that it ain't gonna be running that.
>
> Yes, but at the same time, it's not clear what it will be running. The thing
> we really need to see is a survey of what operating systems businesses are
> running today. The survey would have to include companies of different size
> and different markets (etc, etc.) so that variations could be factored in.
> As you point out, just looking at what OS machines were shipped with isn't
> necessarily valid, especially in the case of server shipments.
Enter Netcraft; but every time someone brings it up, the Windows
advocates stick their heads in a hole somewhere.
(And then they expect us to fall over wounded because some lame
I'm-going-out-of-buisiness Windows magazine is doing a publicity stunt
for some sustainted advertising dollars)
--
It won't be long before the CPU is a card in a slot on your ATX videoboard
Craig Kelley -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.isu.edu/~kellcrai finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP block
------------------------------
From: "Edward Rosten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: What language are use to program Linux stuff?
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 18:43:20 +0100
In article <3b275e02_1@newsfeeds>, "Donn Miller"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> mlw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> C++ programs do not need libstdc++ unless you use funcions in it. Using
>> C++ over C, even with mainly C like syntax has the advantage of beinh
>> able to declare variables anywhere in a function. C sucks at that,
>> variables must be defined at the top. Plus there is some good type
>> checking which helps. I would say why bother with C at all?
>
> Hmmm. The C99 standard allows you to declare variables anywhere in a
> block. For example, in C99 you can declare variables "on the fly"
> inside a for or while loop just like in C++. Only trouble with this
> is, this functionality is already implemented in g++, and it may be a
> while before we see a completely C99-compliant gcc. Anyone know if gcc
> 3.0 is C99 compliant yet? Probably will be a while... But I will
> agree that I like to put my variables anywhere I want, although
> declaring them at the beginning of a block allows to reader to see what
> variables are being used in the block.
You seem to be confused here.
ANSI C allows you to decalre variables at the beginning of _any_ block.
C++ (and, IIRC, C99) allow you to declare variables _anywhere_.
-Ed
--
(You can't go wrong with psycho-rats.) (u98ejr)(@)(ecs.ox)(.ac.uk)
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------------------------------
From: Craig Kelley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux penetration MUCH lower than previously claimed
Date: 13 Jun 2001 10:48:54 -0600
"Jon Johansan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> "Dave Martel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > On 12 Jun 2001 11:48:13 -0500, "Jon Johansan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > >Yes, I know the study was partially sponsored by MS (someone has to pay
> for
> > >these things) so please don't fire off stupid replies implying that MS
> > >purposely contaminated it's own results by 'buying the study' - that's
> just
> > >preposterous.
> >
> > Not at all preposterous, given their past history of sponsoring
> > "flawed" studies.
>
> Such as? Please don't insult us by saying "Mindcraft" as the two subsequent
> retests proved such claims as false and misleading.
This is misleading in the same way Mindcraft was misleading: The
premise is flawed. How about a study of how many operating systems
are installed via FTP? How would Windows 2000 fare?
Questioning how many pre-loaded Linux servers are sold is the *exact
same thing*, only the other way around. Microsoft is king of
pre-loads; ask anyone. It borders on the illegal (ie, try to buy a
Sony Vaio or anything like it without Windows or Word); and then to
turn around and tout that filthy practice as a benefit is
disingenuous.
> > At any rate there's a more accurate measure of linux's market share:
> > Microsoft does not launch all-out attacks against niche operating
> > systems that present no threat to Windows. That they're willing to
> > risk so many lies says so very much about their desperation.
>
> That's an opinion which I only partially agree with. However, even
> if MS considers Linux a threat - that does not equal server
> shipments or mean that the figures given by Gartner are inaccurate.
And the whole point of this pointless exercise is what, exactly? This
"study" could be (probably is) 100% accurate -- but what does it
*mean*?
Nothing.
--
It won't be long before the CPU is a card in a slot on your ATX videoboard
Craig Kelley -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.isu.edu/~kellcrai finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP block
------------------------------
From: "JS \\ PL" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux penetration MUCH lower than previously claimed
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 12:49:46 -0400
"Dave Martel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> On 12 Jun 2001 13:05:10 -0500, "Jon Johansan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >
> >"Dave Martel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> >news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >> On 12 Jun 2001 11:48:13 -0500, "Jon Johansan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >>
> >> >Yes, I know the study was partially sponsored by MS (someone has to
pay
> >for
> >> >these things) so please don't fire off stupid replies implying that MS
> >> >purposely contaminated it's own results by 'buying the study' - that's
> >just
> >> >preposterous.
> >>
> >> Not at all preposterous, given their past history of sponsoring
> >> "flawed" studies.
> >
> >Such as? Please don't insult us by saying "Mindcraft" as the two
subsequent
> >retests proved such claims as false and misleading.
>
> Mindcraft.
>
> >
> >>
> >> At any rate there's a more accurate measure of linux's market share:
> >> Microsoft does not launch all-out attacks against niche operating
> >> systems that present no threat to Windows. That they're willing to
> >> risk so many lies says so very much about their desperation.
> >
> >That's an opinion which I only partially agree with. However, even if MS
> >considers Linux a threat - that does not equal server shipments or mean
that
> >the figures given by Gartner are inaccurate.
>
> No, but it gives good reason to be suspicious when three independents
> (IDC, AllNetResearch, and NetCraft) come up with a higher set of
> figures, and a survey sponsored by MS in the midst of a disinformation
> campaign comes up with very much lower numbers.
>
I wasn't aware that netcraft was counting physical servers. When did that
start happening?
The way they count has nothing to do with server market share.
No more than counting houses shows the amount of cities.
------------------------------
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,alt.destroy.microsoft
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: So what software is the NYSE running ?
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Ed Allen)
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 17:01:04 GMT
In article <L8yV6.26582$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Chad Myers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>What? Now your just being rediculous. Do you even expect anyone here to
>believe that your inadaquacies as a computer user have anything to do with
>the quality of MS software?
>
>Would you like me to show you screen shots of a successful deletion of
>multiple messages?
>
By now most of us have memorized the approved responses to expect
from you. First blame the user as demonstrated by Bill himself in
this interview:
http://www.cantrip.org/nobugs.html
FOCUS:
But there are bugs an any version which people would really
like to have fixed.
Gates:
No! There are no significant bugs in our released software
that any significant number of users want fixed.
FOCUS:
Oh, my God. I always get mad at my computer if MS Word
swallows the page numbers of a document which I
printed a couple of times with page numbers. If I complain to
anybody they say "Well, upgrade from version 5.11 to 6.0".
Gates:
No! If you really think there's a bug you should report a bug.
Maybe you're not using it properly. Have you ever considered that?
FOCUS:
Yeah, I did...
Gates:
It turns out Luddites don't know how to use software properly,
so you should look into that. -- The reason we come
up with new versions is not to fix bugs. It's absolutely not.
It's the stupidest reason to buy a new version I ever
heard. When we do a new version we put in lots of new things
that people are asking for. And so, in no sense, is
stability a reason to move to a new version. It's never a reason.
>Please, stop being retarded, it's absoluately rediculous now.
>
Why "rediculous now", admitting that it was not ridiculous before ?
(Max, is calling customers "Luddites" and "retarded" more evidence of
monopoly power ?)
(I realize that Chad does not get paid by MS directly but, as a sock
puppet, he surely has guidelines to follow.)
(alt.destroy.microsoft added to bring this to Max's attention.)
That quote also shows why MS never paid attention to stability until
Linux began showing that longer uptimes could be had on computers
which required frequent reboots when running MS software. Now they
recommend running several machines in a cluster to approach the
uptimes that Linux and Solaris have been delivering for years.
Then you blame the hardware and, if it turns out the hardware is new
or works in another machine, declare it to be "bad drivers". (Although
how they can misbehave in one computer and be well behaved in another one
is ignored as irrelevant, hardware does things like that I guess.)
The final thing is to say "It always just works for me".
Why are you skipping steps ?
--
Microsoft is trying to add to the list of biggest lies of all time:
"Hi. I'm from Microsoft and I am here to protect you from the threat of
the GPL."
------------------------------
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