Jurek, I absolutely agree! The problem arises when people want to play Dowland as regular ren. dances. Pozdrowienia
Jarek -----Original Message----- From: Jerzy Zak [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 9:03 PM To: Lute Subject: [LUTE] Re: Playing in time Jarek, On 2008-02-05, at 20:33, Jarosław Lipski wrote: > Jurek, > It got complicated a little bit, but in fact is very simple. If you > start > taping your foot (I don't advice taping foot at all, but one can do it > virtually) when playing Pavan, don't stop it when the Galliard > comes, and > everything will be fine :) The same is Jean-Marie reminding and everybody agree to it. The problem appeares which time values of each dance equals. That is in what containes one galliarde beat and one pavane beat. > I played with the dancers several times and generally they don't > like fast > tempos of the Galliard for the simple reason they have many > complicated > steps (the steps shown on American video are very basic). > I absolutely agree with Steward that Galliard was slowing down with > time > passing because of more and more complicated steps. The same with pavan, the same with almain/allemande, with sarabande, etc. > If we presume that in > XVI c. Italy it was a lively dance, as well as the pavan not so slow, too. > probably in the end of Dowland's life it > was not. No wonder that when Mace was writing about Galliard, > everybody was > so bored already with Galliards and inventing new attractive steps in > general. So probably this is why he describes it as a slow, grave > and sober > dance. In his time both the pavan and the galliard were for old fogies. In my feeling the Dowland pavans and galliard situates somwhere between the tipical XVIth c. Italian lively prototypes and Mace, but were already in a stage of decadence. But first of all Dowland is not for dancing - try to convince someone to dance to his Lacrime Pavan. Of course under the academic roof you can do it, but would you like to take part in that experiment? > > Jaroslaw > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jerzy Zak [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 6:31 PM > To: lute > Subject: [LUTE] Re: Playing in time > > Thank you Jean-Marie, > > After reading you and looking again to the Arthur's exemples, I > should have written: > 1 galliard measure (one beat) = 1/2 of a pavan measure (one beat) > > and in an original mensural notation would be: > 3 half notes of a galliard (one beat to a measure) = 1 whole note of > a pavan (one beat or half of the measure) > > Is it correct? > Jurek > ______________ > >>> 1 galliard measure = 1/4 of a pavan measure. >>> >>> In mensural notation (not modern, often changing values) it might >>> be: >>> 3 half notes of a galliard (one measure) = 1 half note in a pavan >>> (1/4 of a measure). > > On 2008-02-05, at 17:49, Jean-Marie Poirier wrote: > >> Exactly Jerzy. >> >> I think that's what theoreticians call "tactus inequalis" : 1 >> tactus in a binary measure (= normally a half measure in modern >> transcriptions ) is equivalent to 1 tactus in triple time ( one >> measure in modern transcrition). In other words if you beat time >> with a regular tactus in duple time - hand touching down for each >> breve duration, as you see in some paintings with singers - , not >> considering the modern concept of "bar", as there were no bars then >> as you know, and if this tactus remains the same for a triple time >> measure, it means you keep the same tactus all the time with a >> clear proportion, so it's quite easy to shift from duple time to >> triple and back, if necessary. Usually a breve, with two demi- >> breves, in duple time becomes a breve in triple with three semi- >> breves to it. >> Try it and you'll see it works almost all the time ! It works all >> the time for Pavan-Galliard proportion. So, take care, you have to >> consider what speed your triple time breve will be like to choose a >> correct tempo for the Pavan, [and be able to keep it ;-)]... >> >> Best, >> >> Jean-Marie >> >> ======= 05-02-2008 17:27:26 ======= >> >>> >>> On 2008-02-05, at 15:15, Arthur Ness wrote: >>> >>>> http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/dihtml/divideos.html >>> >>> Thank you, Arthur, >>> Then it is 1 galliard measure = 1/4 of a pavan measure. >>> >>> In mensural notation (not modern, often changing values) it might >>> be: >>> 3 half notes of a galliard (one measure) = 1 half note in a pavan >>> (1/4 of a measure). >>> >>> Forgive improper terminology, if that's important. >>> In art music, that is for playing or listening, those proportions >>> loose sense of course. >>> >>> However there are Lute-Listers better then me in Renaissance theory. >>> Jurek >>> __________ > To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
