About your recording.
   I think the Vivat he sang like English pronunciation of Latin.
   Liza like modern English, because I suppose he sang the rest of the
   song in modern English too.
   (I've recorded it too. Should check what the singer did, maybe ...)
   In HIP lute song performance, you can choose for early English
   pronunciation, but this is very difficult to do, not so clear about how
   to pronounce exactly, and not so clear for a modern audience to
   understand. So there is a strong argument in favour of modern English
   pronunciation of lute song. Robert Spencer, one of my teachers, was
   strongly in favour of modern pronunciation for reasons of
   communication: performing lute songs is about giving your audience the
   text, not the sounds. But for a little later songs, like Purcell, I
   think it's nice to try, as here the sound of the language is so much a
   part of the composition. On the other hand, the greatest changes in
   English pronunciation are already past by the time of Purcell. For what
   I know of it, anyway. I'm sure someone can - and will! - correct me
   here.
   The pronunciation of Latin in Early music is generally regulated
   according to country and time. 16th century French-Latin is pronounced
   differently than 16th century English or Italian Latin. This might seem
   a similar can of worms as the early English pronunciation, but
   apparently it is much more clearly defined. Or so my early music
   singers tell me. There's even a convenient little booklet with all the
   details. But then, regarding the 'vivat' you're left with the question:
   if you pronounce the rest of the song in modern English, would you not
   choose modern English-Latin for the few Latin bits too, or would you go
   for early English-Latin? (I don't know if there's much, if any,
   difference.)
   Regarding rhyme in 17th century English. This is a debated subject.
   With early pronunciation you'd get more (all?) rhyme than with modern
   pronunciation. Modern scholars have invented 'eye rhyme'  or 'visual
   rhyme'  for words that seem to rhyme on paper, but due to the
   idiosyncrasies of the English language don't rhyme when pronounced. If
   'visual rhyme' was a known concept for 16th century poets, I don't
   know, but I doubt it.
   Anyway, ganbatte kudasai!

   *******************************
   David van Ooijen
   [1]davidvanooi...@gmail.com
   [2]www.davidvanooijen.nl
   *******************************
   On 23 April 2017 at 18:31, lutenist.mumin.koide gmail
   <[3]lutenist.mumin.ko...@gmail.com> wrote:

     Arigato go zai mas, David-san,
     In Rooley's The Consort of Musicke recording, David Thomas sang
     "Vivat" like
     "va;y-vat" (similar to syllables of "Wyatt")
     "Eliza" like "eh-lie-zah".   Sounds quite modern-english-english to
     my ears
     and I was wondering why he sang like that.
     Tomoko
     -----Original Message-----
     From: [4]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:[5]lute-arc@cs.dartmouth.
     edu] On Behalf
     Of David van Ooijen
     Sent: Monday, April 24, 2017 12:16 AM
     To: lutelist Net <[6]Lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
     Subject: [LUTE] Re: Vivat Eliza
        Konnichiwa Tomoko-san
        Vivat Eliza = Long live (Queen) Elisabeth.
        So as English-Latin as you like the Vivat, and then as
     English-English
        as you like Eliza.
        This little song cycle has some more Latin in it. Either make it
        period-English-Latin, or make it clearly Latin. There are
     different
        'schools' of doing this.
        David
        *******************************
        David van Ooijen
        [1][7]davidvanooi...@gmail.com
        [2][8]www.davidvanooijen.nl
        *******************************
        On 23 April 2017 at 17:02, lutenist.mumin.koide gmail
        <[3][9]lutenist.mumin.ko...@gmail.com> wrote:
          Dear lute-list,
          Could anyone help me clarify pronunciation of "Vivat Eliza" in
          Dowland's composition
          to Sir. Henry Lee's poem "Time's Eldest Son"?
          I thought it could be " viãä¹ãδã²t ("Vivat" read in
     ecclesiastical
          Latin?) and " ãæ°¸ãå¸ãã» (with this pronunciation it rhymes
     with "Ave
          Maria" ) though many sang it " vaãå¯ã§vãδã²t ãçãç¯ 
ã£ãå¯ã§zãã»
     for which I
          couldn't find any reason...
          Tomoko
          To get on or off this list see list information at
          [4][10]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
        --
     References
        1. mailto:[11]davidvanooi...@gmail.com
        2. [12]http://www.davidvanooijen.nl/
        3. mailto:[13]lutenist.mumin.ko...@gmail.com
        4. [14]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. mailto:davidvanooi...@gmail.com
   2. http://www.davidvanooijen.nl/
   3. mailto:lutenist.mumin.ko...@gmail.com
   4. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
   5. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
   6. mailto:Lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   7. mailto:davidvanooi...@gmail.com
   8. http://www.davidvanooijen.nl/
   9. mailto:lutenist.mumin.ko...@gmail.com
  10. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
  11. mailto:davidvanooi...@gmail.com
  12. http://www.davidvanooijen.nl/
  13. mailto:lutenist.mumin.ko...@gmail.com
  14. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

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