Re: [gentoo-user] F'ing Idiots on IRC Re: A plea for calm
On Saturday 20 September 2008 05:55:21 Mark Kirkwood wrote: Winner on what grounds? From the tone of the vast majority of his posts it would seem to be he who posts in most vitriolic manner. Not commendable. Do you really expect that, after all the lies, slander, FUD and personal attacks coming at me and my team from certain parties, that I should respond with all hugs and smiles? That's really quite unbelievable. Also, this thread was dead for over two days. Was it really necessary to bring it up again? But oh no, I'm sure I'll get the blame, because I'm the only who still talking, and all the people who I'm replying to must be figments of my imagination.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: A plea for calm
On Wednesday 17 September 2008 01:16:06 b.n. wrote: No, that's *your* problem now, because you and your accolites now look like a bunch of arrogant a**holes, instead of helpful people. If that helps drive away idiots, then fine. Non-idiots won't use that as a reason to use or not to use the software. I asked instead seriously for facts about such campaign. URLs of websites dedicated against Paludis, menacing mails, personal attacks, whatever. I am still waiting for evidence of this mysterious conspiracy. For personal attacks, see anything written by Volker and his buddies about Paludis on the mailing lists or forums. There is at least one website, but posting it will only encourage them. Scared of what? Scared that people might want to use Paludis instead of their precious Portage or Pkgcore. - if these are lies, rational people will look at facts for themselves and will stay on the rational side. So why caring at Volker's lies? Because allowing him to viciously attack us over, and over, and over, and over, and over again is not acceptable.
Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 3.5.10 in portage...
On Wednesday 17 September 2008 00:50:42 Allan Gottlieb wrote: Rather, It is less objectionable for people who have accomplished a very great deal and have greatly improved the computing environment for the members of the corresponding mailing list. Like would not apply as I don't know either linus or the members of this mailing list. Ah, so it's hero-worship, then? Linus can be obnoxious, but it's OK because he's soo cool? 2. That list is not intended for users, but for developers. Not even slightly relevant. Why? Because you say people will avoid software because they don't like its developers. Nothing to do with any mailing list.
Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 3.5.10 in portage...
2008/9/17 Alan McKinnon [EMAIL PROTECTED]: This is after many requests from others for you to calm down on the list What exactly am I doing that isn't calm? two private mails from myself asking the same, both of which you have not answered. I only received one, that didn't contain any content worth answering.
Re: [gentoo-user] F'ing Idiots on IRC Re: A plea for calm
2008/9/17 Zhang Le [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Actually I still don't think --resume --skipfirst can do big harm to my system. After all, my system have been running well for several years. If you get so many build failures that you feel the need to systematically ignore them, then your system is not running well.
Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 3.5.10 in portage...
2008/9/16 Neil Bothwick [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I didn't say they were.You're never going to convince Volker, but you may well have succeeded in discouraging others from try Paludis. On what grounds? The Paludis developers don't like being lied about, therefore I won't use Paludis? I don't think the sort of person who would use that logic (presumably someone who intends to lie about the developers of his package manager) is the kind of person we want as a user anyway.
Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 3.5.10 in portage...
On Tuesday 16 September 2008 20:51:43 Alan McKinnon wrote: That is not for you to decide. The user - ANY user - is free to decide what software they want to run and under what conditions, free from irrelevant judgements of suitability from self-appointed arbiters of whatever. Well, yes, I'm just saying that there are certain kinds of people who won't cause any tears on our behalf if they decide not to use Paludis.
Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 3.5.10 in portage...
On Tuesday 16 September 2008 20:54:43 Neil Bothwick wrote: On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 20:42:09 +0100, David Leverton wrote: I didn't say they were.You're never going to convince Volker, but you may well have succeeded in discouraging others from try Paludis. On what grounds? Because you attitude was abrasive and antagonistic. I trust these people won't be using Linux either, then?
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: A plea for calm
On Tuesday 16 September 2008 22:14:47 b.n. wrote: Frankly, the more you challenge him this mindless way, the more I believe him. If you think in such backwards logic then I don't care who you believe.
Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 3.5.10 in portage...
On Tuesday 16 September 2008 22:13:01 Neil Bothwick wrote: On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 21:15:38 +0100, David Leverton wrote: Because your attitude was abrasive and antagonistic. I trust these people won't be using Linux either, then? Manners and respect are OS-agnostic. Completely not the point.
Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 3.5.10 in portage...
On Tuesday 16 September 2008 22:39:12 Allan Gottlieb wrote: 1. You are not linus. It's OK for people I like to do this, but not people I don't like? 2. That list is not intended for users, but for developers. Not even slightly relevant. 3. You are not linus. See above.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: A plea for calm
On Tuesday 16 September 2008 23:18:42 b.n. wrote: I am not going to do it because of the treatment I'd be reserved by people like ciaranm, or you, if I only needed help or disagreed with your opinions. What on Earth makes you think that? Volker is certainly not asking for help, and he is not merely disagreeing, but preaching his gospel of lies at every conceivable opportunity. If you don't do that (which is surely wise in any case) you won't receive the corresponding response.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: A plea for calm
On Tuesday 16 September 2008 22:47:49 »Q« wrote: It's not backwards logic. The Paludis developer posts evidence that the liar is lying, therefore I'm going to believe the liar is entirely backwards.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: A plea for calm
On Tuesday 16 September 2008 23:53:20 b.n. wrote: David Leverton ha scritto: On Tuesday 16 September 2008 23:18:42 b.n. wrote: I am not going to do it because of the treatment I'd be reserved by people like ciaranm, or you, if I only needed help or disagreed with your opinions. What on Earth makes you think that? Your behaviour. Towards people who only need help or disagree (rationally) with my opinions? Such as? The IRC log posted on the r0bertz blog. Don't do something so draw-droppingly idiotic if you don't want to receive the appropriate reaction. This is paranoid behaviour. To think that there is a hate campaign about your little software is utterly paranoid. It's not paranoid, it's true. I've seen it. Actually, I'm pretty sure 99.999% of world population just doesn't care about your software. :) Perhaps, but some of the people who do care care in a rather malicious way. Moreover, as I told you some time ago, the only way to shut up lies is *facts*. In software, facts means code. As I told you some time ago, these people don't care about code.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: A plea for calm
On Wednesday 17 September 2008 00:10:26 Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: I provided evidence. You provided lies. You attacked me. I defended my project against your attacks. That is the last thing I will post in this thread or as an answer to you. A likely story.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: A plea for calm
On Wednesday 17 September 2008 00:27:54 b.n. wrote: If he *knew* it was idiotic, he *would not* have done it, isn't it? That's his problem. Until I will see anti-paludis campaigns in the streets, sorry, it's just paranoia. That seems like a rather arbitrary restriction. As you said, most people in the world don't care about anything Gentoo-related, so campaigning in the streets seems rather unlikely, but that's no excuse for spreading lies amongst the subset of people who do care. And, sir, what would the aim of those people be? What advantage they have from maliciously and viciously crushing Paludis? Will they become richer? More powerful? Or it's for the women? My theory is that they're scared. Or it could just be because they enjoy hurting other people. And you are not doing that. Trying to win on Volker, you are losing with everyone else. Only the irrational ones.
Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 3.5.10 in portage...
On Sunday 14 September 2008 19:28:28 Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: because not everybody wants to install that bloated thing Not bloated. watch it devour config files Lies. and be insulted by the troll-brigade. The only people who get insulted are those who repeatedly and deliberately spread vicious lies, FUD and personal attacks. Making the 'official' overlay paludis-only was a BIG mistake. It's not paludis-only, it will work with any package manager whose developers care enough to support the useful features of the kdebuild-1 EAPI. And as kdesvn-portage shows - it was unneeded. Unneeded is a funny word. You don't need ebuilds at all, but that doesn't mean they're not useful. 'We need the features of paludis' was shown as bs. No-one said any such thing. They did say that they were sick of waiting years and years for Portage to provide features that would have made their and their users lives a lot easier. Just another little trick by the paludis-group The KDE overlay isn't produced by the paludis-group. to convert people. No, to provide ebuilds that make use of useful features that benefit both users and developers. Luckily that failed. Wrong.
Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 3.5.10 in portage...
On Sunday 14 September 2008 20:27:52 Mariusz Przygodzki wrote: Maybe they were waiting so many years because they have never asked users about what users really need and think about it. What? It's not that we hate you (unless we do). It's just that we have nothing to offer you, and you have nothing to offer us. Since that has absolutely nothing do to with the topic of discussion, or indeed anything Gentoo-related, your quoting of it at me can only be considered a personal attack.
Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 3.5.10 in portage...
On Sunday 14 September 2008 20:38:49 Mariusz Przygodzki wrote: No, it is NOT. Then what is it? If you're not sniping at me (or possibly the genkdesvn team) for being involved with Exherbo, why did you post that here?
Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 3.5.10 in portage...
On Sunday 14 September 2008 21:37:21 Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: On Sunday 14 September 2008, David Leverton wrote: On Sunday 14 September 2008 19:28:28 Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: because not everybody wants to install that bloated thing Not bloated. I am sorry: extremly bloated. I see you're still as good at logic as ever. watch it devour config files Lies. oh really? what happens when you forget the 'portage' useflag? Hm? It installs without support for reading Portage configuration files, in the same way that almost everything else in the tree doesn't support Portage configuration files. You surely wouldn't say that any of those devour config files (at least not for that reason), so why do you say it about Paludis? and be insulted by the troll-brigade. The only people who get insulted are those who repeatedly and deliberately spread vicious lies, FUD and personal attacks. oh really? There are enough examples of troll behaviour. Starting with Ciaranm himself. SPB and rbrown are good examples too. Again, lies and personal attacks. Making the 'official' overlay paludis-only was a BIG mistake. It's not paludis-only, it will work with any package manager whose developers care enough to support the useful features of the kdebuild-1 EAPI. and that was an official api? Yes? No? Irrelevant. Was it needed? No - proven by kdesvn-portage I didn't say it was needed. I said it was useful enough that the genkdesvn team decided that, in their opinion, the benefits outweighed the drawbacks. Other people obviously had different priorities, and so they produced something that suited their needs better. And as kdesvn-portage shows - it was unneeded. Unneeded is a funny word. You don't need ebuilds at all, but that doesn't mean they're not useful. unneeded is the correct choice of words. It is, in the sense that it's not false, but the inferences that you draw from it are spectacularly wrong. That 'special feature that only paludis - and unoffical packet manager developed by a dev team which has a very high 'forcefully retired' content Personal attacks etc. Just because Gentoo was forced to choose between retiring some developers and losing a sponsor doesn't mean that anything those developers ever worked on is evil. was not needed - as shown by kdesvn-portage. You consistently demonstrate a complete failure to comprehend anything in my post. Just another little trick by the paludis-group The KDE overlay isn't produced by the paludis-group. no, it was just made by vivid paludis fans. Hey, lets make an overlay a lot of user want - and make it paludis only. That way we can push paludis! No, That way we can use useful features that have been supported in Paludis for months if not years, instead of having to work around Portage's limitations! which one? Which features 'benefit both users and developers' and are sooo important that the kde overlay had to be paludis only? Name them please. USE deps are the main one. Yes, Portage supports them now, but it didn't at the time, and no-one expected that it would within a reasonable time period. Suggested deps are another nice one. You can read the details of the rest in PMS. Oh, does paludis support and equivalent to 'keep-going' or '--ignore-failures' Read the documentation. or are people who wants this extremly usefull features still attacked and insulted? No-one has been attacked and insulted for wanting extremely useful features.
Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 3.5.10 in portage...
On Sunday 14 September 2008 21:39:39 Mariusz Przygodzki wrote: That's simple :) The mentioned quotation is an accurate conclusion That phrase does not make sense. of discussion about why Gentoo users shoud use paludis to install and test KDE4 desktop efficiently ?. That quotation is not in any way relevant to anything involving Gentoo.
Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 3.5.10 in portage...
On Sunday 14 September 2008 22:38:42 Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: yeah, sure. But no. Not lies. Or why were this guys forcefully retired? For their behaviour. No, to prevent Gentoo from losing a major sponsor. Also: http://r0bertz.blogspot.com/2007/01/be-careful-when-you-are-on-paludis.html Idiot does something idiotic and is called idiot. Film at 11. and that was an official api? Yes? No? Irrelevant. no, not irrelevant but the beef of the story. So your bureaucratic little rules about what's official and what isn't are more important than what's actually useful? Personal attacks etc. Just because Gentoo was forced to choose between retiring some developers and losing a sponsor doesn't mean that anything those developers ever worked on is evil. no, it just makes you think if you should really use a piece of software whose makers will insult and ridicule you. If anyone likes to insult and ridicule Paludis users, it's not the Paludis developers.
