[android-developers] Re: Android Pirate Site
Now with that out of the way you can contact the owner of the site and ask them to remove your app. If they don't comply you probably will need to lawyer up to get any satisfaction and in the end you will probably not be able to collect. All you get is a lawyer bill. That's what the DMCA is for. Sent a notice to the site and they're legally required to take your stuff down. If they don't, sent a notice to their provider, and they're legally required to take the site down. Now, if they want to fight you, they can file a counter-notice, and then it has to go to court, but in practice, if they're genuinely guilty, it doesn't go that far. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en
Re: [android-developers] Re: Android Pirate Site
and co-pilot is hacked and available for free also. i guess that didn't work. On Sat, Jan 16, 2010 at 11:13 AM, theSmith chris.smith...@gmail.com wrote: Would it be feasible to authicate the app with a google checkout number like copilot does? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en
[android-developers] Re: Android Pirate Site
On Jan 16, 2:46 pm, Mark Murphy mmur...@commonsware.com wrote: MakeMobile wrote: I believe I've already answered the question of why Google would do something about this, but I'll say it again. Piracy damages the platform as a whole. Google cares about this kind of thing because it slows the progress of the platform as a whole. That is debatable. For every force (developers electing to abandon one platform with piracy for another platform with piracy) there can be a countervailing force (more consumer interest because of wider free app availability). While I agree with your overall point that there are dualities to perceived problems with something as complex as a platform or OS, I do not agree with your idea that there would be more consumer interest because of the increased availability of pirated apps. I hardly believe that the majority of consumers consider the availability of pirated apps among the important things to consider when looking to migrate to a new device. But my specific inquiry is who can I talk to about this? who or where do I report this? If you have an app on the Android Market, and you are using their copy protection, and you find your app is pirated, complain to the Android Market (via their support forums) that their copy protection did not help you. I suspect you'll find a few posts to that effect out there already, though I haven't looked. I'll certainly do that, but I was wondering if there is a more formal system for reporting such abuses. On another note, I think the common attitude of apathy surrounding this issue is shocking. I think an attitude of not *worrying* much about this issue is decidedly healthy. It's not a matter of worrying too much, but a matter of keeping it in check. I think there are ways to improve what we have. Certainly Market could do a better job. For those who have been living under a rock for the past two decades, digital goods get pirated, plain and simple... IMHO, developers for all platforms can take three possible approaches to piracy: 1. Embrace piracy, by coming up with business strategies that do not require payment for individual copies of apps. 2. Ignore piracy, treating it as a manageable loss (akin to breakage in a retail store), and focusing on serving those customers that do pay. 3. Have their blood pressure climb to unsafe levels. Again, I think ignoring such problems is not a feasible approach. When we sit up and take notice, it leads to discussion, and then implementation of better solutions. To be clear, I expect piracy to exist. In fact, I think any developer who has not considered piracy as they build out their product is just not being realistic. However, burying your head in the sand does not make a problem go away. If you are truly serious about app development, get truly serious about choosing a business model you'll be happy with. With luck, you'll settle on one for which piracy is not an issue. Agreed. But some of us do not have the option to implement a business model less susceptible to piracy. Some applications are just not conducive to the models which do well to avoid piracy. There are strategies which a developer can employ to make piracy more difficult. The most common of which might be some form of call home functionality. But this wont work for my application (and many others). Asking for internet access on a stand-alone app would be silly. I believe it would provide an additional barrier to acceptance that I am not willing to construct. Mr Benjamin made a good post on this point, so I wont bother repeating it. As the platform moves forward, this will become a much lager and more serious issue. If we want to continue to attract great developers who make great apps -- and the platform to continue to be competitive -- we must think proactively about such problems. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en
[android-developers] Re: Android Pirate Site
For what it's worth, the piracy issue was a real eye-opener for me when I released my first iPhone app. The app included a web service which simply logged an anonymous user ID on my site so I could distinguish between users. The ratio of paying to pirated users was staggering. After awhile I also adopted the approach Mark Murphy stated a few posts above. Don't worry about the piracy too much, they probably wouldn't have paid for your app anyway. Try to find a different model which doesn't depend on the up-front sale of the app to support yourself. That being said, I agree that some pressure should be kept on sites distributing pirated copies so it doesn't get completely out of control. Good luck all. On Jan 16, 2:58 pm, MakeMobile makemobileinnovati...@gmail.com wrote: On Jan 16, 2:46 pm, Mark Murphy mmur...@commonsware.com wrote: MakeMobile wrote: I believe I've already answered the question of why Google would do something about this, but I'll say it again. Piracy damages the platform as a whole. Google cares about this kind of thing because it slows the progress of the platform as a whole. That is debatable. For every force (developers electing to abandon one platform with piracy for another platform with piracy) there can be a countervailing force (more consumer interest because of wider free app availability). While I agree with your overall point that there are dualities to perceived problems with something as complex as a platform or OS, I do not agree with your idea that there would be more consumer interest because of the increased availability of pirated apps. I hardly believe that the majority of consumers consider the availability of pirated apps among the important things to consider when looking to migrate to a new device. But my specific inquiry is who can I talk to about this? who or where do I report this? If you have an app on the Android Market, and you are using their copy protection, and you find your app is pirated, complain to the Android Market (via their support forums) that their copy protection did not help you. I suspect you'll find a few posts to that effect out there already, though I haven't looked. I'll certainly do that, but I was wondering if there is a more formal system for reporting such abuses. On another note, I think the common attitude of apathy surrounding this issue is shocking. I think an attitude of not *worrying* much about this issue is decidedly healthy. It's not a matter of worrying too much, but a matter of keeping it in check. I think there are ways to improve what we have. Certainly Market could do a better job. For those who have been living under a rock for the past two decades, digital goods get pirated, plain and simple... IMHO, developers for all platforms can take three possible approaches to piracy: 1. Embrace piracy, by coming up with business strategies that do not require payment for individual copies of apps. 2. Ignore piracy, treating it as a manageable loss (akin to breakage in a retail store), and focusing on serving those customers that do pay. 3. Have their blood pressure climb to unsafe levels. Again, I think ignoring such problems is not a feasible approach. When we sit up and take notice, it leads to discussion, and then implementation of better solutions. To be clear, I expect piracy to exist. In fact, I think any developer who has not considered piracy as they build out their product is just not being realistic. However, burying your head in the sand does not make a problem go away. If you are truly serious about app development, get truly serious about choosing a business model you'll be happy with. With luck, you'll settle on one for which piracy is not an issue. Agreed. But some of us do not have the option to implement a business model less susceptible to piracy. Some applications are just not conducive to the models which do well to avoid piracy. There are strategies which a developer can employ to make piracy more difficult. The most common of which might be some form of call home functionality. But this wont work for my application (and many others). Asking for internet access on a stand-alone app would be silly. I believe it would provide an additional barrier to acceptance that I am not willing to construct. Mr Benjamin made a good post on this point, so I wont bother repeating it. As the platform moves forward, this will become a much lager and more serious issue. If we want to continue to attract great developers who make great apps -- and the platform to continue to be competitive -- we must think proactively about such problems. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
[android-developers] Re: Android Pirate Site
shut one down 3 more pop up, its an unavoidable part of software development. On Jan 16, 10:13 am, MakeMobile makemobileinnovati...@gmail.com wrote: I stumbled upon this site offering 1000's of Android apps for free (including mine!). http://www.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/ap6z0/redditapps_a_1000_list...http://www.mediafire.com/redditapps How do I report this to Google? How do we shut them down? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en
[android-developers] Re: Android Pirate Site
I've been in the business for quite some time, and I know that drill. But I do not accept your reply as a useful response to this problem. This problem is damaging to the entire development community as a whole as well as the forward progress of the platform. Few developers will be interested in building on a platform which has a reputation for easy piracy. Their development efforts will be focused on other platforms, and Android will suffer from less innovation and fewer useful apps. I've also found piracy on other sites, including droidfanz.com, and this forum: http://www.ipmart-forum.com/archive/index.php/t-337082.html I'd like to know what Google is doing about this, and who to forward abuse complaints to. On Jan 16, 11:33 am, schwiz sch...@gmail.com wrote: shut one down 3 more pop up, its an unavoidable part of software development. On Jan 16, 10:13 am, MakeMobile makemobileinnovati...@gmail.com wrote: I stumbled upon this site offering 1000's of Android apps for free (including mine!). http://www.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/ap6z0/redditapps_a_1000_list... How do I report this to Google? How do we shut them down? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en
[android-developers] Re: Android Pirate Site
I too would like to know if Google in particular is doing anything to help us developers out. As apps grow in popularity the more they are pirated and the harder to get them all taken down. Ideally there would be a spot for developers to submit pages that are hosting our apps illegally and Google would take care of the DMCA stuff. (Or just provide us with copy protection that works...) For those interested here is another site I found yesterday, http://www.mediafire.com/thakidtok http://twitter.com/thakidtook uses twitter to distribute them too. This is really a pain in the ass. Does apple have piracy issues like this on the iPhone? -theSmith On Jan 16, 12:09 pm, MakeMobile makemobileinnovati...@gmail.com wrote: I've been in the business for quite some time, and I know that drill. But I do not accept your reply as a useful response to this problem. This problem is damaging to the entire development community as a whole as well as the forward progress of the platform. Few developers will be interested in building on a platform which has a reputation for easy piracy. Their development efforts will be focused on other platforms, and Android will suffer from less innovation and fewer useful apps. I've also found piracy on other sites, including droidfanz.com, and this forum:http://www.ipmart-forum.com/archive/index.php/t-337082.html I'd like to know what Google is doing about this, and who to forward abuse complaints to. On Jan 16, 11:33 am, schwiz sch...@gmail.com wrote: shut one down 3 more pop up, its an unavoidable part of software development. On Jan 16, 10:13 am, MakeMobile makemobileinnovati...@gmail.com wrote: I stumbled upon this site offering 1000's of Android apps for free (including mine!). http://www.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/ap6z0/redditapps_a_1000_list... How do I report this to Google? How do we shut them down? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en
Re: [android-developers] Re: Android Pirate Site
My question is why would google do anything. These are your apps. You hold copyright not google. You have to do something. Unless you are finding Market or Maps on these sites google could care less and rightly so. Now with that out of the way you can contact the owner of the site and ask them to remove your app. If they don't comply you probably will need to lawyer up to get any satisfaction and in the end you will probably not be able to collect. All you get is a lawyer bill. The second course of action is to point out to the hosting company that they are pirating software. Having worked for a fairly large ISP as the Engineering Manager in the past I can say that we took these sites down when there was reasonable proof of piracy.Of course they just move to the next place. On Sat, Jan 16, 2010 at 9:32 AM, theSmith chris.smith...@gmail.com wrote: I too would like to know if Google in particular is doing anything to help us developers out. As apps grow in popularity the more they are pirated and the harder to get them all taken down. Ideally there would be a spot for developers to submit pages that are hosting our apps illegally and Google would take care of the DMCA stuff. (Or just provide us with copy protection that works...) For those interested here is another site I found yesterday, http://www.mediafire.com/thakidtok http://twitter.com/thakidtook uses twitter to distribute them too. This is really a pain in the ass. Does apple have piracy issues like this on the iPhone? -theSmith On Jan 16, 12:09 pm, MakeMobile makemobileinnovati...@gmail.com wrote: I've been in the business for quite some time, and I know that drill. But I do not accept your reply as a useful response to this problem. This problem is damaging to the entire development community as a whole as well as the forward progress of the platform. Few developers will be interested in building on a platform which has a reputation for easy piracy. Their development efforts will be focused on other platforms, and Android will suffer from less innovation and fewer useful apps. I've also found piracy on other sites, including droidfanz.com, and this forum:http://www.ipmart-forum.com/archive/index.php/t-337082.html I'd like to know what Google is doing about this, and who to forward abuse complaints to. On Jan 16, 11:33 am, schwiz sch...@gmail.com wrote: shut one down 3 more pop up, its an unavoidable part of software development. On Jan 16, 10:13 am, MakeMobile makemobileinnovati...@gmail.com wrote: I stumbled upon this site offering 1000's of Android apps for free (including mine!). http://www.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/ap6z0/redditapps_a_1000_list... How do I report this to Google? How do we shut them down? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.comandroid-developers%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en -- Writing code is one of few things that teaches me I don't know everything. Join the Closed Beta of Call Girl Manager http://www.fuligin.com/forums -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en
Re: [android-developers] Re: Android Pirate Site
On Sat, Jan 16, 2010 at 11:09 AM, MakeMobile makemobileinnovati...@gmail.com wrote: I'd like to know what Google is doing about this, and who to forward abuse complaints to. You must be new around here. Google doesn't do support. But good luck all the same. -- Greg Donald http://destiney.com/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en
Re: [android-developers] Re: Android Pirate Site
I would suggest contacting the company and informing them of their infringement of your software. If they refuse to remove it you have the right to get a lawyer. Check out this site http://www.justice.gov/criminal/cybercrime/ and on the right check out How to report intellectual property crime. The more people you can get in on this with you is also better. Especially if your app is normally a paid app. I hope that link helps you out. On Sat, Jan 16, 2010 at 1:18 PM, Greg Donald gdon...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Jan 16, 2010 at 11:09 AM, MakeMobile makemobileinnovati...@gmail.com wrote: I'd like to know what Google is doing about this, and who to forward abuse complaints to. You must be new around here. Google doesn't do support. But good luck all the same. -- Greg Donald http://destiney.com/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.comandroid-developers%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en
[android-developers] Re: Android Pirate Site
Yeah, I believe iPhone has the advantage here since it won't even allow you to install apps from outside app store. That has its own negatives, but it at least protects the developers (and the consumers, actually). Until something like that happens, I'd try the traditional desktop software tricks, e.g. an unlock code for each purchase. I'm exploring the options for an upcoming app myself, will post back my findings. Meanwhile, if you come up/find something, please do post. On Jan 16, 9:09 am, MakeMobile makemobileinnovati...@gmail.com wrote: I've been in the business for quite some time, and I know that drill. But I do not accept your reply as a useful response to this problem. This problem is damaging to the entire development community as a whole as well as the forward progress of the platform. Few developers will be interested in building on a platform which has a reputation for easy piracy. Their development efforts will be focused on other platforms, and Android will suffer from less innovation and fewer useful apps. I've also found piracy on other sites, including droidfanz.com, and this forum:http://www.ipmart-forum.com/archive/index.php/t-337082.html I'd like to know what Google is doing about this, and who to forward abuse complaints to. On Jan 16, 11:33 am, schwiz sch...@gmail.com wrote: shut one down 3 more pop up, its an unavoidable part of software development. On Jan 16, 10:13 am, MakeMobile makemobileinnovati...@gmail.com wrote: I stumbled upon this site offering 1000's of Android apps for free (including mine!). http://www.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/ap6z0/redditapps_a_1000_list... How do I report this to Google? How do we shut them down? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en
[android-developers] Re: Android Pirate Site
On Jan 16, 1:08 pm, Wayne Wenthin wa...@fuligin.com wrote: My question is why would google do anything. These are your apps. You hold copyright not google. You have to do something. Unless you are finding Market or Maps on these sites google could care less and rightly so. I believe I've already answered the question of why Google would do something about this, but I'll say it again. Piracy damages the platform as a whole. Google cares about this kind of thing because it slows the progress of the platform as a whole. That's why they released the Nexus One -- to advance the platform by gaining new developers and users. I'd be surprised if Google did not have people working on this. But my specific inquiry is who can I talk to about this? who or where do I report this? And if it does not yet exist, Google should definitely set up a system for reporting these abuses. On another note, I think the common attitude of apathy surrounding this issue is shocking. I am fully aware that it's not possible within reason to completely eliminate this problem -- and I do not expect that. However that does not mean we should ignore the issue on the premise that its too difficult a problem to deal with. This is especially problematic for small time developers who don't have the resources (time or financial) to do much about this. I believe it's these small time developers who provide the most value to the platform -- there are far more small time developers than large organizations, and I believe they provide the bulk of the innovation. So lack of a robust support system for these developers is a big problem. I'd like to steer the discussion in a more positive direction. So lets go guys -- resources, information, options... -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en
[android-developers] Re: Android Pirate Site
Would it be feasible to authicate the app with a google checkout number like copilot does? On Jan 16, 1:55 pm, MakeMobile makemobileinnovati...@gmail.com wrote: On Jan 16, 1:08 pm, Wayne Wenthin wa...@fuligin.com wrote: My question is why would google do anything. These are your apps. You hold copyright not google. You have to do something. Unless you are finding Market or Maps on these sites google could care less and rightly so. I believe I've already answered the question of why Google would do something about this, but I'll say it again. Piracy damages the platform as a whole. Google cares about this kind of thing because it slows the progress of the platform as a whole. That's why they released the Nexus One -- to advance the platform by gaining new developers and users. I'd be surprised if Google did not have people working on this. But my specific inquiry is who can I talk to about this? who or where do I report this? And if it does not yet exist, Google should definitely set up a system for reporting these abuses. On another note, I think the common attitude of apathy surrounding this issue is shocking. I am fully aware that it's not possible within reason to completely eliminate this problem -- and I do not expect that. However that does not mean we should ignore the issue on the premise that its too difficult a problem to deal with. This is especially problematic for small time developers who don't have the resources (time or financial) to do much about this. I believe it's these small time developers who provide the most value to the platform -- there are far more small time developers than large organizations, and I believe they provide the bulk of the innovation. So lack of a robust support system for these developers is a big problem. I'd like to steer the discussion in a more positive direction. So lets go guys -- resources, information, options... -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en
Re: [android-developers] Re: Android Pirate Site
Sekhar wrote: Yeah, I believe iPhone has the advantage here since it won't even allow you to install apps from outside app store. That has its own negatives, but it at least protects the developers (and the consumers, actually). You would appear to be mistaken: http://www.pinchmedia.com/blog/piracy-in-the-app-store-from-360idev/ http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/4194/iphone_piracy_the_inside_story.php http://www.tuaw.com/2009/10/28/iphone-app-claims-95-piracy-rate/ http://blog.costan.us/2009/04/iphone-piracy-hard-numbers-for-soft.html Now, the $450 million figure that 24/7 Wall Street touted this past week is a crock, IMHO, but even a locked-down platform like iPhone has piracy, and a non-trivial amount of it. -- Mark Murphy (a Commons Guy) http://commonsware.com | http://twitter.com/commonsguy Warescription: Three Android Books, Plus Updates, One Low Price! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en
Re: [android-developers] Re: Android Pirate Site
I got a question for you guys. Assuming you know how and have the means to set up a server.. why can't you have your app send a code or something to this server.. to verify its a valid copy. If the copy that is out on those hosting sites has the same code.. you can at least have your app hit the server and if the code provided is ALREADY registered.. send back a nope.. you are not allowed code. Have your app indicate this message to the user, and the user can contact you if need be, but explain that someone else already registered with this code so you're code is invalid indicating a pirated version. Is this not allowed? I mean, if you specify internet permissions, you are basically getting the OK from the user to use the internet. It would hamper your app to require internet at least the first time it's run tho. Is there any help from google in the way of being able to figure out whose purchased your app off the market? I mean, if you get 500 sells on the market, but have 7000 hits to your server.. there is something wrong. What about knowing if your app was installed from the market, or from the SD card? Any chance of knowing that? Is there any steps during installation we developers can take to figure out if it was installed from market or not? That may help us ensure that our app is only functional if installed from the market. I imagine that that pirated sites may have people who reverse-engineer the app and defeat this.. but not sure they go to that extent.. yet. On Sat, Jan 16, 2010 at 10:55 AM, MakeMobile makemobileinnovati...@gmail.com wrote: On Jan 16, 1:08 pm, Wayne Wenthin wa...@fuligin.com wrote: My question is why would google do anything. These are your apps. You hold copyright not google. You have to do something. Unless you are finding Market or Maps on these sites google could care less and rightly so. I believe I've already answered the question of why Google would do something about this, but I'll say it again. Piracy damages the platform as a whole. Google cares about this kind of thing because it slows the progress of the platform as a whole. That's why they released the Nexus One -- to advance the platform by gaining new developers and users. I'd be surprised if Google did not have people working on this. But my specific inquiry is who can I talk to about this? who or where do I report this? And if it does not yet exist, Google should definitely set up a system for reporting these abuses. On another note, I think the common attitude of apathy surrounding this issue is shocking. I am fully aware that it's not possible within reason to completely eliminate this problem -- and I do not expect that. However that does not mean we should ignore the issue on the premise that its too difficult a problem to deal with. This is especially problematic for small time developers who don't have the resources (time or financial) to do much about this. I believe it's these small time developers who provide the most value to the platform -- there are far more small time developers than large organizations, and I believe they provide the bulk of the innovation. So lack of a robust support system for these developers is a big problem. I'd like to steer the discussion in a more positive direction. So lets go guys -- resources, information, options... -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.comandroid-developers%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en
Re: [android-developers] Re: Android Pirate Site
More importantly - do Android devices have unique hardware identifiers like the iPhone's UUID? David Sauter -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en
[android-developers] Re: Android Pirate Site
@david I believe there must be, I know flurry assigns an unique id to each user, so I'm guessing its using a hardware identifier, I'm going to look through the docs now On Jan 16, 2:19 pm, David Sauter del...@gmail.com wrote: More importantly - do Android devices have unique hardware identifiers like the iPhone's UUID? David Sauter -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en
Re: [android-developers] Re: Android Pirate Site
David Sauter wrote: More importantly - do Android devices have unique hardware identifiers like the iPhone's UUID? android.provider.Settings.System, ANDROID_ID, is a unique ID per device. Note, though, that this is not stored in ROM, and so rooted devices can hack their ANDROID_ID. Also, ANDROID_ID is null on the emulator, and not all device manufacturers follow the rules (e.g., docs say it's a hex string, ARCHOS 5 Android tablet it's a more general alphanumeric string). -- Mark Murphy (a Commons Guy) http://commonsware.com | http://twitter.com/commonsguy Android Training in US: 8-12 February 2010: http://bignerdranch.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en
Re: [android-developers] Re: Android Pirate Site
MakeMobile wrote: I believe I've already answered the question of why Google would do something about this, but I'll say it again. Piracy damages the platform as a whole. Google cares about this kind of thing because it slows the progress of the platform as a whole. That is debatable. For every force (developers electing to abandon one platform with piracy for another platform with piracy) there can be a countervailing force (more consumer interest because of wider free app availability). But my specific inquiry is who can I talk to about this? who or where do I report this? If you have an app on the Android Market, and you are using their copy protection, and you find your app is pirated, complain to the Android Market (via their support forums) that their copy protection did not help you. I suspect you'll find a few posts to that effect out there already, though I haven't looked. On another note, I think the common attitude of apathy surrounding this issue is shocking. I think an attitude of not *worrying* much about this issue is decidedly healthy. For those who have been living under a rock for the past two decades, digital goods get pirated, plain and simple. I distinctly remember the precursor to warez operating off of BBSes for the Apple II in the late 1980's. And, in the present day, we have torrents full of music, movies, apps, and (if the reports are true) Android application development books. IMHO, developers for all platforms can take three possible approaches to piracy: 1. Embrace piracy, by coming up with business strategies that do not require payment for individual copies of apps. 2. Ignore piracy, treating it as a manageable loss (akin to breakage in a retail store), and focusing on serving those customers that do pay. 3. Have their blood pressure climb to unsafe levels. Personally, I'm a fan of #1 where possible and #2 where not. Here's my take on piracy specifically: http://www.androidguys.com/2009/12/22/rethinking-android-app-piracy/ In there, you will also find links to two of my five blog posts on Android business models, few of which require payments from individuals for software. Now, when the opportunity presents itself and it's not much effort, feel free to smack down a pirate. I do that from time to time myself. If you are truly serious about app development, get truly serious about choosing a business model you'll be happy with. With luck, you'll settle on one for which piracy is not an issue. BTW, in addition to _Approaching Infinity_ that I mention in the above-linked blog post, another interesting read is _The Pirate's Dilemma_, which looks at the history of piracy over the last half-century or so: http://thepiratesdilemma.com -- Mark Murphy (a Commons Guy) http://commonsware.com | http://twitter.com/commonsguy Android Training in US: 22-26 February 2010: http://onlc.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en
Re: [android-developers] Re: Android Pirate Site
While there are thousands of things you can do to make it more difficult for someone to pirate your application, they all come at the cost of making it that much more difficult for your user to purchase your application and/or make your application more fragile. Many anti-piracy methods keep users from making legitimate backups of software, which might be alright if the user can download a replacement copy for free, but too often that's seen as a way to make another fast buck. I believe that user education is an important, low cost, and least painful way to attack this problem. There will always be pirates, because the only way to prevent piracy is to lock the phone down so tight that no one can install or remove applications at all. What might reduce piracy is if there is a concerted effort to educate users about who they are hurting when they steal applications written by small developers. They need to learn that we're not all fortune 500 companies and that when they steal from us, they take food off our table. Even if it's a dollar app, it's still theft and still hurts us. Worst of all, they are driving the most innovative developers out of business. If there is enough piracy, it can bring down the whole platform, and they'll find no one developing for their android phones at all. If all they want are applications developed by huge corporations that can't be bothered to listen to suggestions or fix bugs, piracy is certainly the way to go. Eventually they'll have no choice but to buy locked down phones offered to them in package deals with half the hardware features turned off. All that said, this isn't much different than what we faced with personal computers a few decades ago. I suspect some kind of balance will evolve in time. Phones are going to eventually take over most of our personal computing tasks, relegating desktops and laptops to accessory status for many people. It's always fun to live in interesting times. Ray David Sauter wrote: More importantly - do Android devices have unique hardware identifiers like the iPhone's UUID? David Sauter -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en
[android-developers] Re: Android Pirate Site
You would appear to be mistaken: http://www.pinchmedia.com/blog/piracy-in-the-app-store-from-360idev/http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/4194/iphone_piracy_the_inside_s...http://www.tuaw.com/2009/10/28/iphone-app-claims-95-piracy-rate/http://blog.costan.us/2009/04/iphone-piracy-hard-numbers-for-soft.html Hey, don't make a straw man out of this. The point is that iPhone protection is better, not that it's perfect - like locking your front door is better than leaving it open. MakeMobile, I wouldn't fret about the apathy/naysayers, it's pretty typical. Better find a solution and take the lead. I'm totally with you. My app hosts the logic on the sever (GAE), so I'm planning to use a key to unlock the app (like the regular desktop license key) by checking with the server. Seems straightforward, but need to check it out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en
