Re: [apple-crop] apples and chemicals
I don't know the answer to this question. I'm curious about it too. I also wonder how much of that kind of work is in development. I doubt anyone knows as so much of it is done in the private sector. But I remember conducting trials of pumpkins in the '90s on some virus-resistant GMO pumpkins that derived their genetic material from a different species within the cucurbit genus. I believe it was a wild species that was incompatible for an intergeneric cross. We really need such resistance but it was withdrawn because of perceived market risk. Bill William H. Shoemaker Retired fruit and vegetable horticulturist University of Illinois wshoe...@illinois.edu My question is this: does anyone know how many of the GMO crops/organisms that are currently approved for food crops actually involve genetic transfers among widely-separated species as compared to the number of GMOs that involve only modifications of genes within plants or the addition of virus coat proteins from viruses that are already commonly found in the plant species of interest? ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop
Re: [apple-crop] apples and chemicals
In January, I happened to attend a standing room only presentation on communicating about GMO crops at the Mid-Atlantic Convention in Hershey, PA. The speaker was from the Center of Science in the Public Interest. Their web site posts a 24 page bulletin on the subject at the link below. The bulletin provides a good review for those who are in position to discuss the issue with the public. Link to Straight Talk on Genetically Engineered Foods: http://cspinet.org/new/pdf/biotech-faq.pdf Thanks. Ken Silsby Eastern Technical Manager, Apples Mobile: 716.471.5383 | Fax: 716.204.8065 ksil...@agrofresh.com www.agrofresh.com -Original Message- From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Shoemaker, William H Sent: Monday, May 05, 2014 9:04 AM To: Apple-crop discussion list Subject: Re: [apple-crop] apples and chemicals I don't know the answer to this question. I'm curious about it too. I also wonder how much of that kind of work is in development. I doubt anyone knows as so much of it is done in the private sector. But I remember conducting trials of pumpkins in the '90s on some virus-resistant GMO pumpkins that derived their genetic material from a different species within the cucurbit genus. I believe it was a wild species that was incompatible for an intergeneric cross. We really need such resistance but it was withdrawn because of perceived market risk. Bill William H. Shoemaker Retired fruit and vegetable horticulturist University of Illinois wshoe...@illinois.edu My question is this: does anyone know how many of the GMO crops/organisms that are currently approved for food crops actually involve genetic transfers among widely-separated species as compared to the number of GMOs that involve only modifications of genes within plants or the addition of virus coat proteins from viruses that are already commonly found in the plant species of interest? ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop
Re: [apple-crop] apples and chemicals
The way to beat the GMO controversy, merited or not, is to use genetic mapping to find plants with desirable traits then cross them into the targeted crop with conventional breeding. I've talked with several anti GMO folks who have no problem with this method but you still can be sure it won't please everyone. Bill Fleming Montana State University Western Ag Research Center 580 Quast Lane Corvallis, MT 59828 -Original Message- From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Silsby, Ken Sent: Monday, May 05, 2014 8:23 AM To: Apple-crop discussion list Subject: Re: [apple-crop] apples and chemicals In January, I happened to attend a standing room only presentation on communicating about GMO crops at the Mid-Atlantic Convention in Hershey, PA. The speaker was from the Center of Science in the Public Interest. Their web site posts a 24 page bulletin on the subject at the link below. The bulletin provides a good review for those who are in position to discuss the issue with the public. Link to Straight Talk on Genetically Engineered Foods: http://cspinet.org/new/pdf/biotech-faq.pdf Thanks. Ken Silsby Eastern Technical Manager, Apples Mobile: 716.471.5383 | Fax: 716.204.8065 ksil...@agrofresh.com www.agrofresh.com -Original Message- From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Shoemaker, William H Sent: Monday, May 05, 2014 9:04 AM To: Apple-crop discussion list Subject: Re: [apple-crop] apples and chemicals I don't know the answer to this question. I'm curious about it too. I also wonder how much of that kind of work is in development. I doubt anyone knows as so much of it is done in the private sector. But I remember conducting trials of pumpkins in the '90s on some virus-resistant GMO pumpkins that derived their genetic material from a different species within the cucurbit genus. I believe it was a wild species that was incompatible for an intergeneric cross. We really need such resistance but it was withdrawn because of perceived market risk. Bill William H. Shoemaker Retired fruit and vegetable horticulturist University of Illinois wshoe...@illinois.edu My question is this: does anyone know how many of the GMO crops/organisms that are currently approved for food crops actually involve genetic transfers among widely-separated species as compared to the number of GMOs that involve only modifications of genes within plants or the addition of virus coat proteins from viruses that are already commonly found in the plant species of interest? ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop
Re: [apple-crop] apples and chemicals
I posted this a while back ( http://www.mail-archive.com/apple-crop%40virtualorchard.net/msg02437.html), but probably worth re-visiting. I found it very interesting. JC http://www.wired.com/2014/01/new-monsanto-vegetables/ On Mon, May 5, 2014 at 11:51 AM, Fleming, William w...@exchange.montana.eduwrote: The way to beat the GMO controversy, merited or not, is to use genetic mapping to find plants with desirable traits then cross them into the targeted crop with conventional breeding. I've talked with several anti GMO folks who have no problem with this method but you still can be sure it won't please everyone. Bill Fleming Montana State University Western Ag Research Center 580 Quast Lane Corvallis, MT 59828 -Original Message- From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Silsby, Ken Sent: Monday, May 05, 2014 8:23 AM To: Apple-crop discussion list Subject: Re: [apple-crop] apples and chemicals In January, I happened to attend a standing room only presentation on communicating about GMO crops at the Mid-Atlantic Convention in Hershey, PA. The speaker was from the Center of Science in the Public Interest. Their web site posts a 24 page bulletin on the subject at the link below. The bulletin provides a good review for those who are in position to discuss the issue with the public. Link to Straight Talk on Genetically Engineered Foods: http://cspinet.org/new/pdf/biotech-faq.pdf Thanks. Ken Silsby Eastern Technical Manager, Apples Mobile: 716.471.5383 | Fax: 716.204.8065 ksil...@agrofresh.com www.agrofresh.com -Original Message- From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Shoemaker, William H Sent: Monday, May 05, 2014 9:04 AM To: Apple-crop discussion list Subject: Re: [apple-crop] apples and chemicals I don't know the answer to this question. I'm curious about it too. I also wonder how much of that kind of work is in development. I doubt anyone knows as so much of it is done in the private sector. But I remember conducting trials of pumpkins in the '90s on some virus-resistant GMO pumpkins that derived their genetic material from a different species within the cucurbit genus. I believe it was a wild species that was incompatible for an intergeneric cross. We really need such resistance but it was withdrawn because of perceived market risk. Bill William H. Shoemaker Retired fruit and vegetable horticulturist University of Illinois wshoe...@illinois.edu My question is this: does anyone know how many of the GMO crops/organisms that are currently approved for food crops actually involve genetic transfers among widely-separated species as compared to the number of GMOs that involve only modifications of genes within plants or the addition of virus coat proteins from viruses that are already commonly found in the plant species of interest? ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop -- Jon Clements aka 'Mr Honeycrisp' UMass Cold Spring Orchard 393 Sabin St. Belchertown, MA 01007 413-478-7219 umassfruit.com ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop
Re: [apple-crop] apples and chemicals
Lucky for consumers that USDA publishes residue quantities, because FDA and EPA would never annoy the chemical industry by releasing such info. Anyhow, because of USDA we know that malathion residues and metabolites are more common on blueberries than any other food, according to the USDA report a couple of years back. Pretty good reason to choose organic blueberries. The other agencies love to study the health effects of chemicals one at a time, ignoring the interactions with other chemicals. Beekeepers are beginning to understand the hollowness of those studies. On Sat, 5/3/14, Jon Clements jon.cleme...@umass.edu wrote: Subject: Re: [apple-crop] apples and chemicals To: Apple-crop discussion list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net Date: Saturday, May 3, 2014, 9:32 PM To further add to the discussion: http://www.motherjones.com/tom-philpott/2014/04/europe-just-banned-apples-you-eat And, I find it interesting: Cancer Treatment Center of America advertisement before the video (is everyone seeing that?); and all the talk about browning and apple longevity in the video, anyone heard of Arctic Apples? (I am sure you have.) Also, I am tangentially involved with Eco Apples (http://redtomato.org/ecoapple.php) and this subject has already come up with them. So, yes, people (Whole Foods?) do watch and pay attention. Perception is reality. Lest anyone forget: the apple-crop discussion(s) are permanently archived here http://www.mail-archive.com/apple-crop@virtualorchard.net/ for anyone to see even though they are not subscribers. (If they find it.) I think it is a good thing to have the archive, just keep in mind it is there. I truly hope it does not inhibit discussion. I try to live by the motto if I don't want the whole world to read it, better not put it in an e-mail. JC On Thu, May 1, 2014 at 9:21 PM, Weinzierl, Richard A weinz...@illinois.edu wrote: Amazing. First, I admit that I usually support new restrictions imposed by the US EPA in response to new tox data or standards because in general one can at least attribute the decisions to people who understand how to weigh scientific evidence … and I do not expect that they will always agree with me, to one direction or the other. I probably do not agree with industry opposition to the EPA as often as many on this list-serve might think I should, but that’s why we all should communicate. But … wow … Apparently TYT (the young Turks) feel free to offer compelling opinions without any need to understand the issue in any substantive way. One has to (NOT) love the web. What a bunch of arrogant talking heads. Perhaps they should launch a vendetta on nitrosamines from BBQs as David R. brought up. Or maybe even quit wearing any SYNTHETIC fabrics or burning any hydrocarbon fuels. As others have posted … those who eat lots of fresh fruits and vegetables, produced conventionally or organically, are the healthiest of all in our societies. I’ll probably regret posting this … but I do not understand how their opinions warrant anyone’s attention. Not Faux News, but just as faux. Ugh. Let’s hope academic freedom is a real thing, or I’ll become a retired old new fruit grower a year or two before I planned to be. Rick Weinzierl Richard Weinzierl Professor and Extension Entomologist IL SARE PDP Coordinator Department of Crop Sciences, University of Illinois S-334 Turner Hall, 1102 S. Goodwin Avenue Urbana, IL 61801 217-244-2126 From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Stephen Jansky Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2014 6:59 PM To: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net Subject: Re: [apple-crop] apples and chemicals The YOUTUBE reaction to American Apples containing DHP Not good press for the U.S. Industry http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oEh1IbOKRBo Steve From: con.tr...@ul.ie To: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2014 10:11:27 + Subject: Re: [apple-crop] apples and chemicals Hello Mike and all, The backdrop to the Irish opinion was, I believe, that a number of EU countries were more reliant on DPA than some others, and that Ireland, having a small apple industry (but nonetheless one in which about 30% of the fruit could have been DPA treated), was naturally inclined to be positively disposed to its continued use (under considerable lobbying pressure from our own apple growers association, and from some other countries). I do know that strong efforts were made by the task force to fill the supposed data gaps, but in the end they did not win out. So in the end, as you say the MRL was dropped not based on a definitive assessment of risk, but because, as I mentioned, there is a general policy thrust
Re: [apple-crop] apples and chemicals
old new fruit grower a year or two before I planned to be. Rick Weinzierl Richard Weinzierl Professor and Extension Entomologist IL SARE PDP Coordinator Department of Crop Sciences, University of Illinois S-334 Turner Hall, 1102 S. Goodwin Avenue Urbana, IL 61801 217-244-2126 From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Stephen Jansky Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2014 6:59 PM To: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net Subject: Re: [apple-crop] apples and chemicals The YOUTUBE reaction to American Apples containing DHP Not good press for the U.S. Industry http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oEh1IbOKRBo Steve From: con.tr...@ul.ie To: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2014 10:11:27 + Subject: Re: [apple-crop] apples and chemicals Hello Mike and all, The backdrop to the Irish opinion was, I believe, that a number of EU countries were more reliant on DPA than some others, and that Ireland, having a small apple industry (but nonetheless one in which about 30% of the fruit could have been DPA treated), was naturally inclined to be positively disposed to its continued use (under considerable lobbying pressure from our own apple growers association, and from some other countries). I do know that strong efforts were made by the task force to fill the supposed data gaps, but in the end they did not win out. So in the end, as you say the MRL was dropped not based on a definitive assessment of risk, but because, as I mentioned, there is a general policy thrust to remove nitrosamines from diet. Dave is correct to point out that there are uncontrollable sources of nitrosamines in diet, but thank goodness they have not begun regulating how people cook their foods at home yet. It would be interesting to compare the amount of nitrosamine in a typical diet due to BBQ’s, compared with that which might come from DPA treated apples. 1-MCP is not a replacement for DPA, and a few years ago I had done some small-scale trials on using about 10% rates of DPA both without and in combination with 1-MCP, and found scald control to be very good in both cases, indicating that recommended DPA rates were probably too high to begin with. I think such combinations would have been the ideal solution, had DPA not been removed from the market, as CO2 injury is a serious risk with 1-MCP use, which is why we now must use higher-tech storage systems. Regarding the treatments with DPA at 10% of the recommended rate, residues were still detectable at about 0.1 to 0.05 ppm after 6 months of storage (unwashed apples). Even if we could guarantee the lower figure, because DPA has now been withdrawn, any residue found in a random test would be an issue, as use of an unapproved chemical is illegal (even if it leaves no residue). We have not got as far as Mosbah’s idea of calling pesticides plant medicines, though the industry does use the phrase plant protectant products, even though the public still call them pesticides. It will take quite some time to change that, but the opportunity arises each time someone asks the question. Finally, regarding Jean-Marc’s observation of reduced aroma, we have been able to offset this in some varieties (for example Elstar clones, Pinova and Wellant) by a delayed harvest, which is in itself facilitated by the excellent ability of 1-MCP to stop these particular varieties ripening further. In this case we end up with firmer fresher-tasting apples which also have great aroma characteristics. For other varieties (e.g. Jonagold and clones), once ripening is under way the effect of 1-MCP is not so marked, so later harvest is not the solution. I would add that the advent of 1-MCP has changed my planting strategy from Jonagold type apples to Elstar type apples. Con From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Mike Willett Sent: 30 April 2014 06:36 To: Apple-crop discussion list Subject: Re: [apple-crop] apples and chemicals As you can imagine, we have been following this issue very closely for a number of years. According to the U.S. EPA's Registration Eligibility Decision for DPA, diphenyl nitrosamine is a trace contaminant in technical DPA. In the most recent risk assessment (2012) done in the EU for DPA, by Ireland's Pesticide Registration Control Division as the rapporteur member state (RMS), it came to this conclusion: N-nitrosodiphenylamine is found at trace levels, below the LOQ in processed apple samples. When you consider the toxicological profile of this nitrosamine and the amounts at which it is likely to be consumed, the RMS calculations show that there are no safety concerns. One must also consider that diphenylamine is not applied to apples destined for the processing market, it is only applied to freshly
Re: [apple-crop] apples and chemicals
On 5/4/2014 7:54 PM, Weinzierl, Richard A wrote: David and all ... I agree entirely with David's points on GMOs and the rationale behind them (and yes, I understand that the archives provide a record for all to view, including those who hope to find fault in our opinions). Transgenic technologies are not good or bad just because they usually move genes between species. Conventional breeding gave us green tomatoes that can be gassed to turn red and develop a tiny bit of flavor. No GMO-tainted reputation, just no flavor. Mutation breeding has been a part of cultivar development for decades without great criticism ... and for legitimate reasons ... but the process is definitely not understood by the public. Laboratory movement of genes by molecular methods within and among species for cultivar improvement may be essential in combatting exotic and invasive insects and pathogens and maybe even new environmental (climatic) conditions. Or the same technology may give us plants that glow in the dark or vegetables that produce compounds previously known only in arthropods or mollusks ... and allergenic to significant numbers of people. GMO or non-GMO is not the distinction that matters to the long-term well-being of humans or the planet. As Jimmy Buffet once concluded in the title track of Fruitcakes ... the gods' honest truth is, it's not that simple Rick Weinzierl Professor and Extension Entomologist IL SARE PDP Coordinator Department of Crop Sciences, University of Illinois S-334 Turner Hall, 1102 S. Goodwin Avenue Urbana, IL 61801 217-244-2126 -Original Message- From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of David A. Rosenberger Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2014 4:44 PM To: Apple-crop discussion list Subject: Re: [apple-crop] apples and chemicals Since Jon and Evan opened the door to a discussion of GMOs, I like to weigh in with a minority opinion on GMOs and some of my rationale for adopting a minority perspective. (Be forewarned that this is a rather long post!) I fully understand that many (perhaps the vast majority) of apple growers are opposed to Arctic Apple and the introduction of GMOs into the apple industry. I suspect that at least some of the opposition stems from the public relations disaster created by the Alar scare that occurred almost 25 years ago. We certainly don't need another event like that! But I also think it would be wise to avoid painting the industry into a corner. I would like to suggest that the apple industry might actually benefit from introduction of more GMOs IF, and this is a big one, IF that approval was accompanied by legislation requiring that all foods containing GMO had to be labeled as such. The food industry (and to my surprise, many university folks) are fighting GMO labeling by saying stupid things such as We know GMOs are safe and It's the same as a fast-track system of conventional plant breeding. Those arguments may be correct (at least for most GMOs), but they will not carry any weight with the fear-mongering media or the GMO-phobic public. (And by the way, when did universities start saying We really don't want people to know facts!?) However, if all products in the grocery stores had to carry GMO labeling, those who are petrified of GMOs could buy the relatively small number of higher-priced processed products that would be labeled as GMO-free, whereas most folks would ignore the labels and buy the same pr oducts that they always bought. Eventually, society would react to GMO-labeled foods the same way that most of us react to food labels that warn This product was processed on a line that also processes nuts and therefore may not be free of peanuts. If you are allergic to peanuts, you avoid those products, but the majority of us ignore the label because we are not allergic to peanuts. GMO labeling would allow those who are psychologically allergic to GMOs to adjust their purchases accordingly whereas most folks would say, as they do with high-fat and/or high-salt food, Well, it hasn't killed me yet! In other words, GMO labeling would defuse the issue and take the heated arguments off of the table. Most folks are already eating GMOs and just don't know it: let's give them the truth and then allows the free markets to adjust accordingly. The upside to GMO labeling would be that those fearing GMOs would be forced or encouraged to move away from processed foods to more fresh fruits and vegetables, most of which are NOT GMOs, and we might actually see more apple consumption. This approach is apparently already paying off for FirstFruits Marketing of Selah, WA where folks had the foresight to label their new proprietary yellow 'Opal' apple as a non-GMO apple (see: http://www.goodfruit.com/opal-apple-verified-as-non-gmo/ ). Following is my enumeration of reasons that the apple industry should not be overly vocal in opposing GMOs
Re: [apple-crop] apples and chemicals
Lucky for consumers that USDA publishes residue quantities, because FDA and EPA would never annoy the chemical industry by releasing such info. Anyhow, because of USDA we know that malathion residues and metabolites are more common on blueberries than any other food, according to the USDA report a couple of years back. Pretty good reason to choose organic blueberries. The other agencies love to study the health effects of chemicals one at a time, ignoring the interactions with other chemicals. Beekeepers are beginning to understand the hollowness of those studies. On Fri, 5/2/14, Mark Helen Angermayer angermay...@gmail.com wrote: Subject: Re: [apple-crop] apples and chemicals To: Apple-crop discussion list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net Date: Friday, May 2, 2014, 11:04 PM Richard, I may be going on a limb here, but I thought the USDA did the market basket surveys to determine residues on food. I believe the EWG list of the Dirty Dozen comes from the USDA surveys. Are there other surveys done by the FDA? Mark Angermayer On 5/2/14, Weinzierl, Richard A weinz...@illinois.edu wrote: All, To my understanding, Mark has it right. In the US, the US EPA registers and sets tolerances (or MRLs) for pesticides and growth regulator compounds. FDA does market basket surveys and import surveys to determine residues on foods that consumers buy ... and the residues are generally WAY below established tolerances or MRLs (with very few isolated exceptions). But it is indeed the US EPA who makes the regulatory decisions on field uses. And just to be clear ... my rant yesterday was NOT about the discussion that has been ongoing on this list for a couple of days but was directed at the video that Steve Jansky called to our attention ... http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oEh1IbOKRBo. Rick Richard Weinzierl Professor and Extension Entomologist IL SARE PDP Coordinator Department of Crop Sciences, University of Illinois S-334 Turner Hall, 1102 S. Goodwin Avenue Urbana, IL 61801 217-244-2126 -Original Message- From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Mark Helen Angermayer Sent: Friday, May 02, 2014 1:20 PM To: Apple-crop discussion list Subject: Re: [apple-crop] apples and chemicals I meant to type MRL, not MLR. Mark On 5/2/14, Mark Helen Angermayer angermay...@gmail.com wrote: Bill, MLR's are set by the EPA. That's how they determine PHI's. Mark Angermayer Tubby Fruits On 5/2/14, Fleming, William w...@exchange.montana.edu wrote: Am I missing something here? Always thought it was the FDA not the EPA that regulated residues on food. Bill Fleming Montana State University Western Ag Research Center 580 Quast Lane Corvallis, MT 59828 From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Weinzierl, Richard A Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2014 7:22 PM To: Apple-crop discussion list Subject: Re: [apple-crop] apples and chemicals Amazing. First, I admit that I usually support new restrictions imposed by the US EPA in response to new tox data or standards because in general one can at least attribute the decisions to people who understand how to weigh scientific evidence ... and I do not expect that they will always agree with me, to one direction or the other. I probably do not agree with industry opposition to the EPA as often as many on this list-serve might think I should, but that's why we all should communicate. But ... wow ... Apparently TYT (the young Turks) feel free to offer compelling opinions without any need to understand the issue in any substantive way. One has to (NOT) love the web. What a bunch of arrogant talking heads. Perhaps they should launch a vendetta on nitrosamines from BBQs as David R. brought up. Or maybe even quit wearing any SYNTHETIC fabrics or burning any hydrocarbon fuels. As others have posted ... those who eat lots of fresh fruits and vegetables, produced conventionally or organically, are the healthiest of all in our societies. I'll probably regret posting this ... but I do not understand how their opinions warrant anyone's attention. Not Faux News, but just as faux. Ugh. Let's hope academic freedom is a real thing, or I'll become a retired old new fruit grower a year or two before I planned to be. Rick Weinzierl Richard Weinzierl Professor and Extension Entomologist IL SARE PDP Coordinator Department of Crop Sciences, University of Illinois S-334 Turner Hall, 1102 S. Goodwin Avenue Urbana, IL 61801 217-244-2126 From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.netmailto:apple-crop-bounces@virtu alorchard.net [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf
Re: [apple-crop] apples and chemicals
I meant to type MRL, not MLR. Mark On 5/2/14, Mark Helen Angermayer angermay...@gmail.com wrote: Bill, MLR's are set by the EPA. That's how they determine PHI's. Mark Angermayer Tubby Fruits On 5/2/14, Fleming, William w...@exchange.montana.edu wrote: Am I missing something here? Always thought it was the FDA not the EPA that regulated residues on food. Bill Fleming Montana State University Western Ag Research Center 580 Quast Lane Corvallis, MT 59828 From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Weinzierl, Richard A Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2014 7:22 PM To: Apple-crop discussion list Subject: Re: [apple-crop] apples and chemicals Amazing. First, I admit that I usually support new restrictions imposed by the US EPA in response to new tox data or standards because in general one can at least attribute the decisions to people who understand how to weigh scientific evidence ... and I do not expect that they will always agree with me, to one direction or the other. I probably do not agree with industry opposition to the EPA as often as many on this list-serve might think I should, but that's why we all should communicate. But ... wow ... Apparently TYT (the young Turks) feel free to offer compelling opinions without any need to understand the issue in any substantive way. One has to (NOT) love the web. What a bunch of arrogant talking heads. Perhaps they should launch a vendetta on nitrosamines from BBQs as David R. brought up. Or maybe even quit wearing any SYNTHETIC fabrics or burning any hydrocarbon fuels. As others have posted ... those who eat lots of fresh fruits and vegetables, produced conventionally or organically, are the healthiest of all in our societies. I'll probably regret posting this ... but I do not understand how their opinions warrant anyone's attention. Not Faux News, but just as faux. Ugh. Let's hope academic freedom is a real thing, or I'll become a retired old new fruit grower a year or two before I planned to be. Rick Weinzierl Richard Weinzierl Professor and Extension Entomologist IL SARE PDP Coordinator Department of Crop Sciences, University of Illinois S-334 Turner Hall, 1102 S. Goodwin Avenue Urbana, IL 61801 217-244-2126 From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.netmailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Stephen Jansky Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2014 6:59 PM To: apple-crop@virtualorchard.netmailto:apple-crop@virtualorchard.net Subject: Re: [apple-crop] apples and chemicals The YOUTUBE reaction to American Apples containing DHP Not good press for the U.S. Industry http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oEh1IbOKRBo Steve From: con.tr...@ul.iemailto:con.tr...@ul.ie To: apple-crop@virtualorchard.netmailto:apple-crop@virtualorchard.net Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2014 10:11:27 + Subject: Re: [apple-crop] apples and chemicals Hello Mike and all, The backdrop to the Irish opinion was, I believe, that a number of EU countries were more reliant on DPA than some others, and that Ireland, having a small apple industry (but nonetheless one in which about 30% of the fruit could have been DPA treated), was naturally inclined to be positively disposed to its continued use (under considerable lobbying pressure from our own apple growers association, and from some other countries). I do know that strong efforts were made by the task force to fill the supposed data gaps, but in the end they did not win out. So in the end, as you say the MRL was dropped not based on a definitive assessment of risk, but because, as I mentioned, there is a general policy thrust to remove nitrosamines from diet. Dave is correct to point out that there are uncontrollable sources of nitrosamines in diet, but thank goodness they have not begun regulating how people cook their foods at home yet. It would be interesting to compare the amount of nitrosamine in a typical diet due to BBQ's, compared with that which might come from DPA treated apples. 1-MCP is not a replacement for DPA, and a few years ago I had done some small-scale trials on using about 10% rates of DPA both without and in combination with 1-MCP, and found scald control to be very good in both cases, indicating that recommended DPA rates were probably too high to begin with. I think such combinations would have been the ideal solution, had DPA not been removed from the market, as CO2 injury is a serious risk with 1-MCP use, which is why we now must use higher-tech storage systems. Regarding the treatments with DPA at 10% of the recommended rate, residues were still detectable at about 0.1 to 0.05 ppm after 6 months of storage (unwashed apples). Even if we could guarantee the lower figure, because DPA has now been withdrawn, any residue found in a random test would be an issue
Re: [apple-crop] apples and chemicals
All, To my understanding, Mark has it right. In the US, the US EPA registers and sets tolerances (or MRLs) for pesticides and growth regulator compounds. FDA does market basket surveys and import surveys to determine residues on foods that consumers buy ... and the residues are generally WAY below established tolerances or MRLs (with very few isolated exceptions). But it is indeed the US EPA who makes the regulatory decisions on field uses. And just to be clear ... my rant yesterday was NOT about the discussion that has been ongoing on this list for a couple of days but was directed at the video that Steve Jansky called to our attention ... http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oEh1IbOKRBo. Rick Richard Weinzierl Professor and Extension Entomologist IL SARE PDP Coordinator Department of Crop Sciences, University of Illinois S-334 Turner Hall, 1102 S. Goodwin Avenue Urbana, IL 61801 217-244-2126 -Original Message- From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Mark Helen Angermayer Sent: Friday, May 02, 2014 1:20 PM To: Apple-crop discussion list Subject: Re: [apple-crop] apples and chemicals I meant to type MRL, not MLR. Mark On 5/2/14, Mark Helen Angermayer angermay...@gmail.com wrote: Bill, MLR's are set by the EPA. That's how they determine PHI's. Mark Angermayer Tubby Fruits On 5/2/14, Fleming, William w...@exchange.montana.edu wrote: Am I missing something here? Always thought it was the FDA not the EPA that regulated residues on food. Bill Fleming Montana State University Western Ag Research Center 580 Quast Lane Corvallis, MT 59828 From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Weinzierl, Richard A Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2014 7:22 PM To: Apple-crop discussion list Subject: Re: [apple-crop] apples and chemicals Amazing. First, I admit that I usually support new restrictions imposed by the US EPA in response to new tox data or standards because in general one can at least attribute the decisions to people who understand how to weigh scientific evidence ... and I do not expect that they will always agree with me, to one direction or the other. I probably do not agree with industry opposition to the EPA as often as many on this list-serve might think I should, but that's why we all should communicate. But ... wow ... Apparently TYT (the young Turks) feel free to offer compelling opinions without any need to understand the issue in any substantive way. One has to (NOT) love the web. What a bunch of arrogant talking heads. Perhaps they should launch a vendetta on nitrosamines from BBQs as David R. brought up. Or maybe even quit wearing any SYNTHETIC fabrics or burning any hydrocarbon fuels. As others have posted ... those who eat lots of fresh fruits and vegetables, produced conventionally or organically, are the healthiest of all in our societies. I'll probably regret posting this ... but I do not understand how their opinions warrant anyone's attention. Not Faux News, but just as faux. Ugh. Let's hope academic freedom is a real thing, or I'll become a retired old new fruit grower a year or two before I planned to be. Rick Weinzierl Richard Weinzierl Professor and Extension Entomologist IL SARE PDP Coordinator Department of Crop Sciences, University of Illinois S-334 Turner Hall, 1102 S. Goodwin Avenue Urbana, IL 61801 217-244-2126 From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.netmailto:apple-crop-bounces@virtu alorchard.net [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Stephen Jansky Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2014 6:59 PM To: apple-crop@virtualorchard.netmailto:apple-crop@virtualorchard.net Subject: Re: [apple-crop] apples and chemicals The YOUTUBE reaction to American Apples containing DHP Not good press for the U.S. Industry http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oEh1IbOKRBo Steve From: con.tr...@ul.iemailto:con.tr...@ul.ie To: apple-crop@virtualorchard.netmailto:apple-crop@virtualorchard.net Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2014 10:11:27 + Subject: Re: [apple-crop] apples and chemicals Hello Mike and all, The backdrop to the Irish opinion was, I believe, that a number of EU countries were more reliant on DPA than some others, and that Ireland, having a small apple industry (but nonetheless one in which about 30% of the fruit could have been DPA treated), was naturally inclined to be positively disposed to its continued use (under considerable lobbying pressure from our own apple growers association, and from some other countries). I do know that strong efforts were made by the task force to fill the supposed data gaps, but in the end they did not win out. So in the end, as you say the MRL was dropped not based on a definitive assessment of risk, but because, as I mentioned, there is a general policy
Re: [apple-crop] apples and chemicals
The YOUTUBE reaction to American Apples containing DHP Not good press for the U.S. Industry http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oEh1IbOKRBo Steve From: con.tr...@ul.ie To: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2014 10:11:27 + Subject: Re: [apple-crop] apples and chemicals Hello Mike and all, The backdrop to the Irish opinion was, I believe, that a number of EU countries were more reliant on DPA than some others, and that Ireland, having a small apple industry (but nonetheless one in which about 30% of the fruit could have been DPA treated), was naturally inclined to be positively disposed to its continued use (under considerable lobbying pressure from our own apple growers association, and from some other countries). I do know that strong efforts were made by the task force to fill the supposed data gaps, but in the end they did not win out. So in the end, as you say the MRL was dropped not based on a definitive assessment of risk, but because, as I mentioned, there is a general policy thrust to remove nitrosamines from diet. Dave is correct to point out that there are uncontrollable sources of nitrosamines in diet, but thank goodness they have not begun regulating how people cook their foods at home yet. It would be interesting to compare the amount of nitrosamine in a typical diet due to BBQ’s, compared with that which might come from DPA treated apples. 1-MCP is not a replacement for DPA, and a few years ago I had done some small-scale trials on using about 10% rates of DPA both without and in combination with 1-MCP, and found scald control to be very good in both cases, indicating that recommended DPA rates were probably too high to begin with. I think such combinations would have been the ideal solution, had DPA not been removed from the market, as CO2 injury is a serious risk with 1-MCP use, which is why we now must use higher-tech storage systems. Regarding the treatments with DPA at 10% of the recommended rate, residues were still detectable at about 0.1 to 0.05 ppm after 6 months of storage (unwashed apples). Even if we could guarantee the lower figure, because DPA has now been withdrawn, any residue found in a random test would be an issue, as use of an unapproved chemical is illegal (even if it leaves no residue). We have not got as far as Mosbah’s idea of calling pesticides plant medicines, though the industry does use the phrase plant protectant products, even though the public still call them pesticides. It will take quite some time to change that, but the opportunity arises each time someone asks the question. Finally, regarding Jean-Marc’s observation of reduced aroma, we have been able to offset this in some varieties (for example Elstar clones, Pinova and Wellant) by a delayed harvest, which is in itself facilitated by the excellent ability of 1-MCP to stop these particular varieties ripening further. In this case we end up with firmer fresher-tasting apples which also have great aroma characteristics. For other varieties (e.g. Jonagold and clones), once ripening is under way the effect of 1-MCP is not so marked, so later harvest is not the solution. I would add that the advent of 1-MCP has changed my planting strategy from Jonagold type apples to Elstar type apples. Con From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Mike Willett Sent: 30 April 2014 06:36 To: Apple-crop discussion list Subject: Re: [apple-crop] apples and chemicals As you can imagine, we have been following this issue very closely for a number of years. According to the U.S. EPA's Registration Eligibility Decision for DPA, diphenyl nitrosamine is a trace contaminant in technical DPA. In the most recent risk assessment (2012) done in the EU for DPA, by Ireland's Pesticide Registration Control Division as the rapporteur member state (RMS), it came to this conclusion: N-nitrosodiphenylamine is found at trace levels, below the LOQ in processed apple samples. When you consider the toxicological profile of this nitrosamine and the amounts at which it is likely to be consumed, the RMS calculations show that there are no safety concerns. One must also consider that diphenylamine is not applied to apples destined for the processing market, it is only applied to freshly consumed table apples, as appearance of these apples is very important. Therefore, the RMS remains supportive of the approval of diphenylamine. In the study that generated the opinion above which was done to address home processing of apples that were originally sold for fresh consumption, no nitrosamines were found in raw apples, nor in apple juice; only in blended and chopped apples (processed apples). The decision announced in March of this year indicates that the reason the MRL for DPA was reduced to 0.1 ppm was because of data gaps in the registration package
Re: [apple-crop] apples and chemicals
Hello all On our trials, effects of MCP are as you know, very impressive on firmness, less weight loss, shriveling, scald... without residues (to my knowledge) with few at no environmental impact... and so on... but at a cost. The one you now which is money, and an other one more insidious which is less aroma synthesis at least a delayed synthesis. This is easily detected in sensory evaluation. Sensory evaluation shows a positive result response from pro panelists on crunch, freshness, juiciness... and a noticeable decrease in aroma perception... This should be a concern towards long term consumption in apple. How consumers consumption shall answer to the new balance freshness/aroma is a question. JMJ De : apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] De la part de Con.Traas Envoyé : mardi 29 avril 2014 18:01 À : Apple-crop discussion list Objet : Re: [apple-crop] apples and chemicals Hello Mosbah, The cost of smartfresh treatment here is about 10 euros (12 dollars?) per 330kg bin (700lbs approx.). It feels expensive, especially compared with DPA, which is very cheap. It does a lot more though. By the way, I think the issue with DPA from a European perspective is that when it degrades it forms one or more nitrosamines, which are a group of chemicals many of which are carcinogenic, though some much more-so than others. So the EU is seeking to eliminate all sources of nitrosamines from diets, and therefore DPA is gone. I do remember when DPA was cleaned-up, but its breakdown products will be nitrosamines, regardless of how cleanly it is produced. Con From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.netmailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] on behalf of Kushad, Mosbah M [kus...@illinois.edu] Sent: 28 April 2014 15:53 To: Apple-crop discussion list Subject: Re: [apple-crop] apples and chemicals If you are asking about diphenylamine (DPA), then it is an antioxidants that blocks the oxidation of alpha farnesene into conjugated trienes in the peel. Conjugated trienes are what causes the apple/pear peel to turn brown from regular or superficial scald. It doesn't help soft scald or sunscald. In the old days they used to wrap fruits in paper soaked in mineral oil that absorbs the conjugated triene gas. I have only scene this recently being practiced in one place. To minimize superficial scald development, harvest fruits when they are horticulturally mature. Ethoxyquin was removed from the market around the 80's because it was suspected to cause cancer. However, DPA went through a rigorous cleaning process to remove any impurities that cause cancer. If you are asking about 1-methylecyclopropene (1-MCP), also known as SmartFresh, it is an ethylene action inhibitor. Treated fruits produce ethylene but it does not work, because the sites where ethylene normally attaches itself, to initiate fruit ripening, are occupied by 1-MCP. There is no evidence that 1-MCP causes any harm to human.Some consider 1-MCP as the best thing since CA storage was introduced in the 30's -40's. hope this helps, Mosbah Kushad, university of Illinois. Question to Con. What is the cost of using SmartFresh per bushel in your operation? From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.netmailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net]mailto:[mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Ginda Fisher Sent: Monday, April 28, 2014 7:08 AM To: Apple-crop discussion list; Con.Traas; 'Evan B. Milburn'; 'Apple-crop discussion list' Subject: Re: [apple-crop] apples and chemicals Can anyone summarize what this chemical is, why and how it is used, and what the risks might be to farmers and consumers from its use? I feel like I walked into the middle of a conversation. Thanks, -- Typed with Swype. Who knows what I meant to say? On April 28, 2014 4:03:51 AM EDT, Con.Traas con.tr...@ul.iemailto:con.tr...@ul.ie wrote: Hello Evan and everybody, Coming from my perspective, where we are now having to cope without DPA for storing Bramley (culinary) apples, I must say that is it proving tricky, but we are managing, through use of 1-MCP combined with more complex (and expensive and risky) storage regimes. So I would say it is technically possible to keep apples without DPA or ethoxyquin, which we also can't use, but ironically it mitigates against the smaller grower, and in favour of the larger ones (big ag?) who can afford the higher tech gear. It is ironic that scaring people about pesticide residues on fresh foods (especially fruits) actually causes people to eat more processed foods (as though their ingredients do not also get pesticide treatments), as the studies linking better health with fruit consumption are studies conducted with conventionally grown fruits with their pesticide residues (if they are not residue
Re: [apple-crop] apples and chemicals
Hello Mike and all, The backdrop to the Irish opinion was, I believe, that a number of EU countries were more reliant on DPA than some others, and that Ireland, having a small apple industry (but nonetheless one in which about 30% of the fruit could have been DPA treated), was naturally inclined to be positively disposed to its continued use (under considerable lobbying pressure from our own apple growers association, and from some other countries). I do know that strong efforts were made by the task force to fill the supposed data gaps, but in the end they did not win out. So in the end, as you say the MRL was dropped not based on a definitive assessment of risk, but because, as I mentioned, there is a general policy thrust to remove nitrosamines from diet. Dave is correct to point out that there are uncontrollable sources of nitrosamines in diet, but thank goodness they have not begun regulating how people cook their foods at home yet. It would be interesting to compare the amount of nitrosamine in a typical diet due to BBQ's, compared with that which might come from DPA treated apples. 1-MCP is not a replacement for DPA, and a few years ago I had done some small-scale trials on using about 10% rates of DPA both without and in combination with 1-MCP, and found scald control to be very good in both cases, indicating that recommended DPA rates were probably too high to begin with. I think such combinations would have been the ideal solution, had DPA not been removed from the market, as CO2 injury is a serious risk with 1-MCP use, which is why we now must use higher-tech storage systems. Regarding the treatments with DPA at 10% of the recommended rate, residues were still detectable at about 0.1 to 0.05 ppm after 6 months of storage (unwashed apples). Even if we could guarantee the lower figure, because DPA has now been withdrawn, any residue found in a random test would be an issue, as use of an unapproved chemical is illegal (even if it leaves no residue). We have not got as far as Mosbah's idea of calling pesticides plant medicines, though the industry does use the phrase plant protectant products, even though the public still call them pesticides. It will take quite some time to change that, but the opportunity arises each time someone asks the question. Finally, regarding Jean-Marc's observation of reduced aroma, we have been able to offset this in some varieties (for example Elstar clones, Pinova and Wellant) by a delayed harvest, which is in itself facilitated by the excellent ability of 1-MCP to stop these particular varieties ripening further. In this case we end up with firmer fresher-tasting apples which also have great aroma characteristics. For other varieties (e.g. Jonagold and clones), once ripening is under way the effect of 1-MCP is not so marked, so later harvest is not the solution. I would add that the advent of 1-MCP has changed my planting strategy from Jonagold type apples to Elstar type apples. Con From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Mike Willett Sent: 30 April 2014 06:36 To: Apple-crop discussion list Subject: Re: [apple-crop] apples and chemicals As you can imagine, we have been following this issue very closely for a number of years. According to the U.S. EPA's Registration Eligibility Decision for DPA, diphenyl nitrosamine is a trace contaminant in technical DPA. In the most recent risk assessment (2012) done in the EU for DPA, by Ireland's Pesticide Registration Control Division as the rapporteur member state (RMS), it came to this conclusion: N-nitrosodiphenylamine is found at trace levels, below the LOQ in processed apple samples. When you consider the toxicological profile of this nitrosamine and the amounts at which it is likely to be consumed, the RMS calculations show that there are no safety concerns. One must also consider that diphenylamine is not applied to apples destined for the processing market, it is only applied to freshly consumed table apples, as appearance of these apples is very important. Therefore, the RMS remains supportive of the approval of diphenylamine. In the study that generated the opinion above which was done to address home processing of apples that were originally sold for fresh consumption, no nitrosamines were found in raw apples, nor in apple juice; only in blended and chopped apples (processed apples). The decision announced in March of this year indicates that the reason the MRL for DPA was reduced to 0.1 ppm was because of data gaps in the registration package that had been submitted. The EU DPA Task Force has vigorously protested the allegation of data gaps but, at any rate, the reduction in the MRL in the EU was not based on a definitive assessment of risk. While I am not an expert in this area, given the discussion regarding 1-MCP, while it is very effective at preventing scald, work done by Jim
Re: [apple-crop] apples and chemicals
Hello Mosbah, The cost of smartfresh treatment here is about 10 euros (12 dollars?) per 330kg bin (700lbs approx.). It feels expensive, especially compared with DPA, which is very cheap. It does a lot more though. By the way, I think the issue with DPA from a European perspective is that when it degrades it forms one or more nitrosamines, which are a group of chemicals many of which are carcinogenic, though some much more-so than others. So the EU is seeking to eliminate all sources of nitrosamines from diets, and therefore DPA is gone. I do remember when DPA was cleaned-up, but its breakdown products will be nitrosamines, regardless of how cleanly it is produced. Con From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] on behalf of Kushad, Mosbah M [kus...@illinois.edu] Sent: 28 April 2014 15:53 To: Apple-crop discussion list Subject: Re: [apple-crop] apples and chemicals If you are asking about diphenylamine (DPA), then it is an antioxidants that blocks the oxidation of alpha farnesene into conjugated trienes in the peel. Conjugated trienes are what causes the apple/pear peel to turn brown from regular or superficial scald. It doesn’t help soft scald or sunscald. In the old days they used to wrap fruits in paper soaked in mineral oil that absorbs the conjugated triene gas. I have only scene this recently being practiced in one place. To minimize superficial scald development, harvest fruits when they are horticulturally mature. Ethoxyquin was removed from the market around the 80’s because it was suspected to cause cancer. However, DPA went through a rigorous cleaning process to remove any impurities that cause cancer. If you are asking about 1-methylecyclopropene (1-MCP), also known as SmartFresh, it is an ethylene action inhibitor. Treated fruits produce ethylene but it does not work, because the sites where ethylene normally attaches itself, to initiate fruit ripening, are occupied by 1-MCP. There is no evidence that 1-MCP causes any harm to human.Some consider 1-MCP as the best thing since CA storage was introduced in the 30’s -40’s. hope this helps, Mosbah Kushad, university of Illinois. Question to Con. What is the cost of using SmartFresh per bushel in your operation? From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Ginda Fisher Sent: Monday, April 28, 2014 7:08 AM To: Apple-crop discussion list; Con.Traas; 'Evan B. Milburn'; 'Apple-crop discussion list' Subject: Re: [apple-crop] apples and chemicals Can anyone summarize what this chemical is, why and how it is used, and what the risks might be to farmers and consumers from its use? I feel like I walked into the middle of a conversation. Thanks, -- Typed with Swype. Who knows what I meant to say? On April 28, 2014 4:03:51 AM EDT, Con.Traas con.tr...@ul.iemailto:con.tr...@ul.ie wrote: Hello Evan and everybody, Coming from my perspective, where we are now having to cope without DPA for storing Bramley (culinary) apples, I must say that is it proving tricky, but we are managing, through use of 1-MCP combined with more complex (and expensive and risky) storage regimes. So I would say it is technically possible to keep apples without DPA or ethoxyquin, which we also can’t use, but ironically it mitigates against the smaller grower, and in favour of the larger ones (big ag?) who can afford the higher tech gear. It is ironic that scaring people about pesticide residues on fresh foods (especially fruits) actually causes people to eat more processed foods (as though their ingredients do not also get pesticide treatments), as the studies linking better health with fruit consumption are studies conducted with conventionally grown fruits with their pesticide residues (if they are not residue free). In other words, the benefits of eating fruits and vegetables are there in black and white, even if those fruits and vegetables have residues. It is far less healthy to switch to a candy bar from an apple, even if that apple has some residue (so long as that is below permitted levels). However, this is not a message we can send out, so we are left grappling when emails like this from EWG are circulated. The joke of what EWG seems to be doing is producing a dirty dozen or clean fifteen list is that those lists say nothing at all about the risk of a pesticide residue on the particular apple in your fruit-bowl. You could be eating a residue-free fruit from among the “dirty dozen”, or one covered in pesticide from among the “clean fifteen”. Despite the differences in regulations between Europe and the US (and I favour in general the less permissive, more cautious European standards, despite having to work within their restrictions), our agriculture here is constantly increasing in scale, and resembles more and more what would be our stereotyped image of US
Re: [apple-crop] apples and chemicals
Hello, Con — Since grilling meat on a barbecue almost always creates some nitrosamines, I’m assuming that outdoor barbecues have also been banned in Europe? :) Dave Rosenberger, Professor Emeritus Dept. of Plant Pathology and Plant-Microbe Biology Cornell’s Hudson Valley Lab, P.O. Box 727, Highland, NY 12528 Office: 845-691-7231Cell: 845-594-3060 http://blogs.cornell.edu/plantpathhvl/ On Apr 29, 2014, at 12:00 PM, Con.Traas con.tr...@ul.iemailto:con.tr...@ul.ie wrote: Hello Mosbah, The cost of smartfresh treatment here is about 10 euros (12 dollars?) per 330kg bin (700lbs approx.). It feels expensive, especially compared with DPA, which is very cheap. It does a lot more though. By the way, I think the issue with DPA from a European perspective is that when it degrades it forms one or more nitrosamines, which are a group of chemicals many of which are carcinogenic, though some much more-so than others. So the EU is seeking to eliminate all sources of nitrosamines from diets, and therefore DPA is gone. I do remember when DPA was cleaned-up, but its breakdown products will be nitrosamines, regardless of how cleanly it is produced. Con From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.netmailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.netmailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] on behalf of Kushad, Mosbah M [kus...@illinois.edumailto:kus...@illinois.edu] Sent: 28 April 2014 15:53 To: Apple-crop discussion list Subject: Re: [apple-crop] apples and chemicals If you are asking about diphenylamine (DPA), then it is an antioxidants that blocks the oxidation of alpha farnesene into conjugated trienes in the peel. Conjugated trienes are what causes the apple/pear peel to turn brown from regular or superficial scald. It doesn’t help soft scald or sunscald. In the old days they used to wrap fruits in paper soaked in mineral oil that absorbs the conjugated triene gas. I have only scene this recently being practiced in one place. To minimize superficial scald development, harvest fruits when they are horticulturally mature. Ethoxyquin was removed from the market around the 80’s because it was suspected to cause cancer. However, DPA went through a rigorous cleaning process to remove any impurities that cause cancer. If you are asking about 1-methylecyclopropene (1-MCP), also known as SmartFresh, it is an ethylene action inhibitor. Treated fruits produce ethylene but it does not work, because the sites where ethylene normally attaches itself, to initiate fruit ripening, are occupied by 1-MCP. There is no evidence that 1-MCP causes any harm to human.Some consider 1-MCP as the best thing since CA storage was introduced in the 30’s -40’s. hope this helps, Mosbah Kushad, university of Illinois. Question to Con. What is the cost of using SmartFresh per bushel in your operation? From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.netmailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Ginda Fisher Sent: Monday, April 28, 2014 7:08 AM To: Apple-crop discussion list; Con.Traas; 'Evan B. Milburn'; 'Apple-crop discussion list' Subject: Re: [apple-crop] apples and chemicals Can anyone summarize what this chemical is, why and how it is used, and what the risks might be to farmers and consumers from its use? I feel like I walked into the middle of a conversation. Thanks, -- Typed with Swype. Who knows what I meant to say? On April 28, 2014 4:03:51 AM EDT, Con.Traas con.tr...@ul.iemailto:con.tr...@ul.ie wrote: Hello Evan and everybody, Coming from my perspective, where we are now having to cope without DPA for storing Bramley (culinary) apples, I must say that is it proving tricky, but we are managing, through use of 1-MCP combined with more complex (and expensive and risky) storage regimes. So I would say it is technically possible to keep apples without DPA or ethoxyquin, which we also can’t use, but ironically it mitigates against the smaller grower, and in favour of the larger ones (big ag?) who can afford the higher tech gear. It is ironic that scaring people about pesticide residues on fresh foods (especially fruits) actually causes people to eat more processed foods (as though their ingredients do not also get pesticide treatments), as the studies linking better health with fruit consumption are studies conducted with conventionally grown fruits with their pesticide residues (if they are not residue free). In other words, the benefits of eating fruits and vegetables are there in black and white, even if those fruits and vegetables have residues. It is far less healthy to switch to a candy bar from an apple, even if that apple has some residue (so long as that is below permitted levels). However
Re: [apple-crop] apples and chemicals
Excellent point, I've seen kids grasp the concept of plant medicines in an instant. The California Association of Pest Control Advisers (CAPCA) has a program called Plant Doctorhttp://plantdoctor.org/home.html that gets right to the point. /David Eddy From: Kushad, Mosbah M [mailto:kus...@illinois.edu] Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2014 1:57 PM To: Apple-crop discussion list Subject: Re: [apple-crop] apples and chemicals Hi Con: Thanks for the response.. I am aware of the DPA and nitrosamine issue but I did not know that it has/or will be banned in Europe.. Not much we can do about regulations.. One thing I like to share with the group is that the Chinese and I believe other countries in southeast Asia call pesticides Medicine. I am not sure who was the first to coin the term pesticides, but it imply bad things when in fact they are not different from medicine. If you don't buy that then pay attention to those medicines advertisements on TV that tell you about their good effects, but they list a half dozen bad things that can happen when you take them. Ironically, the public never seem to associate medicine with bad things... Mosbah From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Con.Traas Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2014 11:01 AM To: Apple-crop discussion list Subject: Re: [apple-crop] apples and chemicals Hello Mosbah, The cost of smartfresh treatment here is about 10 euros (12 dollars?) per 330kg bin (700lbs approx.). It feels expensive, especially compared with DPA, which is very cheap. It does a lot more though. By the way, I think the issue with DPA from a European perspective is that when it degrades it forms one or more nitrosamines, which are a group of chemicals many of which are carcinogenic, though some much more-so than others. So the EU is seeking to eliminate all sources of nitrosamines from diets, and therefore DPA is gone. I do remember when DPA was cleaned-up, but its breakdown products will be nitrosamines, regardless of how cleanly it is produced. Con From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.netmailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] on behalf of Kushad, Mosbah M [kus...@illinois.edu] Sent: 28 April 2014 15:53 To: Apple-crop discussion list Subject: Re: [apple-crop] apples and chemicals If you are asking about diphenylamine (DPA), then it is an antioxidants that blocks the oxidation of alpha farnesene into conjugated trienes in the peel. Conjugated trienes are what causes the apple/pear peel to turn brown from regular or superficial scald. It doesn't help soft scald or sunscald. In the old days they used to wrap fruits in paper soaked in mineral oil that absorbs the conjugated triene gas. I have only scene this recently being practiced in one place. To minimize superficial scald development, harvest fruits when they are horticulturally mature. Ethoxyquin was removed from the market around the 80's because it was suspected to cause cancer. However, DPA went through a rigorous cleaning process to remove any impurities that cause cancer. If you are asking about 1-methylecyclopropene (1-MCP), also known as SmartFresh, it is an ethylene action inhibitor. Treated fruits produce ethylene but it does not work, because the sites where ethylene normally attaches itself, to initiate fruit ripening, are occupied by 1-MCP. There is no evidence that 1-MCP causes any harm to human.Some consider 1-MCP as the best thing since CA storage was introduced in the 30's -40's. hope this helps, Mosbah Kushad, university of Illinois. Question to Con. What is the cost of using SmartFresh per bushel in your operation? From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.netmailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Ginda Fisher Sent: Monday, April 28, 2014 7:08 AM To: Apple-crop discussion list; Con.Traas; 'Evan B. Milburn'; 'Apple-crop discussion list' Subject: Re: [apple-crop] apples and chemicals Can anyone summarize what this chemical is, why and how it is used, and what the risks might be to farmers and consumers from its use? I feel like I walked into the middle of a conversation. Thanks, -- Typed with Swype. Who knows what I meant to say? On April 28, 2014 4:03:51 AM EDT, Con.Traas con.tr...@ul.iemailto:con.tr...@ul.ie wrote: Hello Evan and everybody, Coming from my perspective, where we are now having to cope without DPA for storing Bramley (culinary) apples, I must say that is it proving tricky, but we are managing, through use of 1-MCP combined with more complex (and expensive and risky) storage regimes. So I would say it is technically possible to keep apples without DPA or ethoxyquin, which we also can't use, but ironically it mitigates against the smaller grower, and in favour of the larger ones (big ag?) who can afford the higher tech
Re: [apple-crop] apples and chemicals
Mosbah, Several years ago, now ago we have always used the term preventive medicine instead of pesticides when in conversation with anyone. Almost all people use some kind of preventive medicine. It seems to satisfy their questions. Evan Milburn www.milburnorchards.com On Tuesday, April 29, 2014 4:58 PM, Kushad, Mosbah M kus...@illinois.edu wrote: Hi Con: Thanks for the response.. I am aware of the DPA and nitrosamine issue but I did not know that it has/or will be banned in Europe.. Not much we can do about regulations.. One thing I like to share with the group is that the Chinese and I believe other countries in southeast Asia call pesticides “Medicine”. I am not sure who was the first to coin the term pesticides, but it imply bad things when in fact they are not different from medicine. If you don’t buy that then pay attention to those medicines advertisements on TV that tell you about their good effects, but they list a half dozen bad things that can happen when you take them. Ironically, the public never seem to associate medicine with bad things… Mosbah From:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Con.Traas Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2014 11:01 AM To: Apple-crop discussion list Subject: Re: [apple-crop] apples and chemicals Hello Mosbah, The cost of smartfresh treatment here is about 10 euros (12 dollars?) per 330kg bin (700lbs approx.). It feels expensive, especially compared with DPA, which is very cheap. It does a lot more though. By the way, I think the issue with DPA from a European perspective is that when it degrades it forms one or more nitrosamines, which are a group of chemicals many of which are carcinogenic, though some much more-so than others. So the EU is seeking to eliminate all sources of nitrosamines from diets, and therefore DPA is gone. I do remember when DPA was cleaned-up, but its breakdown products will be nitrosamines, regardless of how cleanly it is produced. Con From:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] on behalf of Kushad, Mosbah M [kus...@illinois.edu] Sent: 28 April 2014 15:53 To: Apple-crop discussion list Subject: Re: [apple-crop] apples and chemicals If you are asking about diphenylamine (DPA), then it is an antioxidants that blocks the oxidation of alpha farnesene into conjugated trienes in the peel. Conjugated trienes are what causes the apple/pear peel to turn brown from regular or superficial scald. It doesn’t help soft scald or sunscald. In the old days they used to wrap fruits in paper soaked in mineral oil that absorbs the conjugated triene gas. I have only scene this recently being practiced in one place. To minimize superficial scald development, harvest fruits when they are horticulturally mature. Ethoxyquin was removed from the market around the 80’s because it was suspected to cause cancer. However, DPA went through a rigorous cleaning process to remove any impurities that cause cancer. If you are asking about 1-methylecyclopropene (1-MCP), also known as SmartFresh, it is an ethylene action inhibitor. Treated fruits produce ethylene but it does not work, because the sites where ethylene normally attaches itself, to initiate fruit ripening, are occupied by 1-MCP. There is no evidence that 1-MCP causes any harm to human. Some consider 1-MCP as the best thing since CA storage was introduced in the 30’s -40’s. hope this helps, Mosbah Kushad, university of Illinois. Question to Con. What is the cost of using SmartFresh per bushel in your operation? From:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Ginda Fisher Sent: Monday, April 28, 2014 7:08 AM To: Apple-crop discussion list; Con.Traas; 'Evan B. Milburn'; 'Apple-crop discussion list' Subject: Re: [apple-crop] apples and chemicals Can anyone summarize what this chemical is, why and how it is used, and what the risks might be to farmers and consumers from its use? I feel like I walked into the middle of a conversation. Thanks, -- Typed with Swype. Who knows what I meant to say? On April 28, 2014 4:03:51 AM EDT, Con.Traas con.tr...@ul.ie wrote: Hello Evan and everybody, Coming from my perspective, where we are now having to cope without DPA for storing Bramley (culinary) apples, I must say that is it proving tricky, but we are managing, through use of 1-MCP combined with more complex (and expensive and risky) storage regimes. So I would say it is technically possible to keep apples without DPA or ethoxyquin, which we also can’t use, but ironically it mitigates against the smaller grower, and in favour of the larger ones (big ag?) who can afford the higher tech gear. It is ironic that scaring people about pesticide residues on fresh
Re: [apple-crop] apples and chemicals
Hello Evan and everybody, Coming from my perspective, where we are now having to cope without DPA for storing Bramley (culinary) apples, I must say that is it proving tricky, but we are managing, through use of 1-MCP combined with more complex (and expensive and risky) storage regimes. So I would say it is technically possible to keep apples without DPA or ethoxyquin, which we also can’t use, but ironically it mitigates against the smaller grower, and in favour of the larger ones (big ag?) who can afford the higher tech gear. It is ironic that scaring people about pesticide residues on fresh foods (especially fruits) actually causes people to eat more processed foods (as though their ingredients do not also get pesticide treatments), as the studies linking better health with fruit consumption are studies conducted with conventionally grown fruits with their pesticide residues (if they are not residue free). In other words, the benefits of eating fruits and vegetables are there in black and white, even if those fruits and vegetables have residues. It is far less healthy to switch to a candy bar from an apple, even if that apple has some residue (so long as that is below permitted levels). However, this is not a message we can send out, so we are left grappling when emails like this from EWG are circulated. The joke of what EWG seems to be doing is producing a dirty dozen or clean fifteen list is that those lists say nothing at all about the risk of a pesticide residue on the particular apple in your fruit-bowl. You could be eating a residue-free fruit from among the “dirty dozen”, or one covered in pesticide from among the “clean fifteen”. Despite the differences in regulations between Europe and the US (and I favour in general the less permissive, more cautious European standards, despite having to work within their restrictions), our agriculture here is constantly increasing in scale, and resembles more and more what would be our stereotyped image of US industrial agriculture. That is because the regulations have more in common than what separates them, and farming is becoming more and more like a business, and less like a passion. I am personally not a fan of industrial agriculture, although I employ mostly similar methods. However, motivation is a key factor, and for me, the motivation is not profit maximisation. For the industrial model is about profit before all else, and that is not a suitable way for the World to produce its food. However, as long as Joe public takes the attitude that 7% of their disposable income is what they will spend on food (that is the Irish %), then agriculture will continue to become more industrial, as for me that is not a percentage that can support the production of produce and foods that consumers might feel more comfortable buying, and might be able to have more confidence in. So, instead of sending 45 bucks to Ken Cook, I would suggest that Joe public either sends it to a principled (and hopefully small-scale) farmer someplace near them, or better still, buys a few fruit trees or invests in a few packets of seeds, and grows their own pesticide-free produce. Con Traas European (Irish) Apple Grower T: @theapplefarmer From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Evan B. Milburn Sent: 28 April 2014 02:32 To: Apple-Crop Subject: Re: [apple-crop] apples and chemicals This was sent to me from a friend of mine by the name of George. It was send to him from one of his co-workers. Evan Milburn www.milburnorchards.comhttp://www.milburnorchards.com Hey Evan what’s this all about? Hi George, Thought you might want to send this to your buddy, Mr. Milburn. Dawn Reserve your 2014 Shopper's Guide to Pesticides in Produce bag tag and get a sneak peek of this year's guide! [EWG Logo]http://action.ewg.org/salsa/track.jsp?v=2c=5r2YvGNi7PfOCCjuGLCaqB6LrHTgr0Yo [Donate today. Help EWG stand up against Big Ag's attacks and we'll send you a sneak peek of our 2014 Shoppers Guide to say thank you]http://action.ewg.org/salsa/track.jsp?v=2c=5caNRqnNvAQTKKdAymouQh6LrHTgr0Yo Dear Dawn, Is that apple slathered with a chemical banned in Europe? Earlier this week, EWG told you about apples and diphenylamine (DPA). This chemical used to help preserve stored apples is banned in Europe because of safety concerns, yet it’s widely used on conventionally grown apples in the United States. Not surprisingly, the pro-pesticide Alliance for Food and Farming isn’t too happy about this. As the public relations arm of big, industrial agriculture, this group has already responded to our report with the nonsensical claim that EWG is trying to scare consumers into not eating apples. You know as well as I do that nothing could be further from the truth. The Alliance is just looking to obscure
Re: [apple-crop] apples and chemicals
Can anyone summarize what this chemical is, why and how it is used, and what the risks might be to farmers and consumers from its use? I feel like I walked into the middle of a conversation. Thanks, -- Typed with Swype. Who knows what I meant to say? On April 28, 2014 4:03:51 AM EDT, Con.Traas con.tr...@ul.ie wrote: Hello Evan and everybody, Coming from my perspective, where we are now having to cope without DPA for storing Bramley (culinary) apples, I must say that is it proving tricky, but we are managing, through use of 1-MCP combined with more complex (and expensive and risky) storage regimes. So I would say it is technically possible to keep apples without DPA or ethoxyquin, which we also can’t use, but ironically it mitigates against the smaller grower, and in favour of the larger ones (big ag?) who can afford the higher tech gear. It is ironic that scaring people about pesticide residues on fresh foods (especially fruits) actually causes people to eat more processed foods (as though their ingredients do not also get pesticide treatments), as the studies linking better health with fruit consumption are studies conducted with conventionally grown fruits with their pesticide residues (if they are not residue free). In other words, the benefits of eating fruits and vegetables are there in black and white, even if those fruits and vegetables have residues. It is far less healthy to switch to a candy bar from an apple, even if that apple has some residue (so long as that is below permitted levels). However, this is not a message we can send out, so we are left grappling when emails like this from EWG are circulated. The joke of what EWG seems to be doing is producing a dirty dozen or clean fifteen list is that those lists say nothing at all about the risk of a pesticide residue on the particular apple in your fruit-bowl. You could be eating a residue-free fruit from among the “dirty dozen”, or one covered in pesticide from among the “clean fifteen”. Despite the differences in regulations between Europe and the US (and I favour in general the less permissive, more cautious European standards, despite having to work within their restrictions), our agriculture here is constantly increasing in scale, and resembles more and more what would be our stereotyped image of US industrial agriculture. That is because the regulations have more in common than what separates them, and farming is becoming more and more like a business, and less like a passion. I am personally not a fan of industrial agriculture, although I employ mostly similar methods. However, motivation is a key factor, and for me, the motivation is not profit maximisation. For the industrial model is about profit before all else, and that is not a suitable way for the World to produce its food. However, as long as Joe public takes the attitude that 7% of their disposable income is what they will spend on food (that is the Irish %), then agriculture will continue to become more industrial, as for me that is not a percentage that can support the production of produce and foods that consumers might feel more comfortable buying, and might be able to have more confidence in. So, instead of sending 45 bucks to Ken Cook, I would suggest that Joe public either sends it to a principled (and hopefully small-scale) farmer someplace near them, or better still, buys a few fruit trees or invests in a few packets of seeds, and grows their own pesticide-free produce. Con Traas European (Irish) Apple Grower T: @theapplefarmer From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Evan B. Milburn Sent: 28 April 2014 02:32 To: Apple-Crop Subject: Re: [apple-crop] apples and chemicals This was sent to me from a friend of mine by the name of George. It was send to him from one of his co-workers. Evan Milburn www.milburnorchards.comhttp://www.milburnorchards.com Hey Evan what’s this all about? Hi George, Thought you might want to send this to your buddy, Mr. Milburn. Dawn Reserve your 2014 Shopper's Guide to Pesticides in Produce bag tag and get a sneak peek of this year's guide! [EWG Logo]http://action.ewg.org/salsa/track.jsp?v=2c=5r2YvGNi7PfOCCjuGLCaqB6LrHTgr0Yo [Donate today. Help EWG stand up against Big Ag's attacks and we'll send you a sneak peek of our 2014 Shoppers Guide to say thank you]http://action.ewg.org/salsa/track.jsp?v=2c=5caNRqnNvAQTKKdAymouQh6LrHTgr0Yo Dear Dawn, Is that apple slathered with a chemical banned in Europe? Earlier this week, EWG told you about apples and diphenylamine (DPA). This chemical used to help preserve stored apples is banned in Europe because of safety concerns, yet it’s widely used on conventionally grown apples in the United States. Not surprisingly, the pro-pesticide Alliance for Food and Farming isn’t too happy about this. As the public relations arm of big, industrial agriculture
Re: [apple-crop] apples and chemicals
If you are asking about diphenylamine (DPA), then it is an antioxidants that blocks the oxidation of alpha farnesene into conjugated trienes in the peel. Conjugated trienes are what causes the apple/pear peel to turn brown from regular or superficial scald. It doesn’t help soft scald or sunscald. In the old days they used to wrap fruits in paper soaked in mineral oil that absorbs the conjugated triene gas. I have only scene this recently being practiced in one place. To minimize superficial scald development, harvest fruits when they are horticulturally mature. Ethoxyquin was removed from the market around the 80’s because it was suspected to cause cancer. However, DPA went through a rigorous cleaning process to remove any impurities that cause cancer. If you are asking about 1-methylecyclopropene (1-MCP), also known as SmartFresh, it is an ethylene action inhibitor. Treated fruits produce ethylene but it does not work, because the sites where ethylene normally attaches itself, to initiate fruit ripening, are occupied by 1-MCP. There is no evidence that 1-MCP causes any harm to human.Some consider 1-MCP as the best thing since CA storage was introduced in the 30’s -40’s. hope this helps, Mosbah Kushad, university of Illinois. Question to Con. What is the cost of using SmartFresh per bushel in your operation? From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Ginda Fisher Sent: Monday, April 28, 2014 7:08 AM To: Apple-crop discussion list; Con.Traas; 'Evan B. Milburn'; 'Apple-crop discussion list' Subject: Re: [apple-crop] apples and chemicals Can anyone summarize what this chemical is, why and how it is used, and what the risks might be to farmers and consumers from its use? I feel like I walked into the middle of a conversation. Thanks, -- Typed with Swype. Who knows what I meant to say? On April 28, 2014 4:03:51 AM EDT, Con.Traas con.tr...@ul.iemailto:con.tr...@ul.ie wrote: Hello Evan and everybody, Coming from my perspective, where we are now having to cope without DPA for storing Bramley (culinary) apples, I must say that is it proving tricky, but we are managing, through use of 1-MCP combined with more complex (and expensive and risky) storage regimes. So I would say it is technically possible to keep apples without DPA or ethoxyquin, which we also can’t use, but ironically it mitigates against the smaller grower, and in favour of the larger ones (big ag?) who can afford the higher tech gear. It is ironic that scaring people about pesticide residues on fresh foods (especially fruits) actually causes people to eat more processed foods (as though their ingredients do not also get pesticide treatments), as the studies linking better health with fruit consumption are studies conducted with conventionally grown fruits with their pesticide residues (if they are not residue free). In other words, the benefits of eating fruits and vegetables are there in black and white, even if those fruits and vegetables have residues. It is far less healthy to switch to a candy bar from an apple, even if that apple has some residue (so long as that is below permitted levels). However, this is not a message we can send out, so we are left grappling when emails like this from EWG are circulated. The joke of what EWG seems to be doing is producing a dirty dozen or clean fifteen list is that those lists say nothing at all about the risk of a pesticide residue on the particular apple in your fruit-bowl. You could be eating a residue-free fruit from among the “dirty dozen”, or one covered in pesticide from among the “clean fifteen”. Despite the differences in regulations between Europe and the US (and I favour in general the less permissive, more cautious European standards, despite having to work within their restrictions), our agriculture here is constantly increasing in scale, and resembles more and more what would be our stereotyped image of US industrial agriculture. That is because the regulations have more in common than what separates them, and farming is becoming more and more like a business, and less like a passion. I am personally not a fan of industrial agriculture, although I employ mostly similar methods. However, motivation is a key factor, and for me, the motivation is not profit maximisation. For the industrial model is about profit before all else, and that is not a suitable way for the World to produce its food. However, as long as Joe public takes the attitude that 7% of their disposable income is what they will spend on food (that is the Irish %), then agriculture will continue to become more industrial, as for me that is not a percentage that can support the production of produce and foods that consumers might feel more comfortable buying, and might be able to have more confidence in. So, instead of sending 45 bucks to Ken Cook, I would suggest that Joe public
Re: [apple-crop] apples and chemicals
Sorry, I got this email chain on my cell phone, and thought it was from a different mailing list. (One for amateur fruit growers, and one that is much more prone to getting scares about various chemicals.) Ginda Fisher apple consumer On Apr 28, 2014, at 8:08 AM, Ginda Fisher wrote: Can anyone summarize what this chemical is, why and how it is used, and what the risks might be to farmers and consumers from its use? I feel like I walked into the middle of a conversation. Thanks, -- Typed with Swype. Who knows what I meant to say? On April 28, 2014 4:03:51 AM EDT, Con.Traas con.tr...@ul.ie wrote: Hello Evan and everybody, Coming from my perspective, where we are now having to cope without DPA for storing Bramley (culinary) apples, I must say that is it proving tricky, but we are managing, through use of 1-MCP combined with more complex (and expensive and risky) storage regimes. So I would say it is technically possible to keep apples without DPA or ethoxyquin, which we also can’t use, but ironically it mitigates against the smaller grower, and in favour of the larger ones (big ag?) who can afford the higher tech gear. It is ironic that scaring people about pesticide residues on fresh foods (especially fruits) actually causes people to eat more processed foods (as though their ingredients do not also get pesticide treatments), as the studies linking better health with fruit consumption are studies conducted with conventionally grown fruits with their pesticide residues (if they are not residue free). In other words, the benefits of eating fruits and vegetables are there in black and white, even if those fruits and vegetables have residues. It is far less healthy to switch to a candy bar from an apple, even if that apple has some residue (so long as that is below permitted levels). However, this is not a message we can send out, so we are left grappling when emails like this from EWG are circulated. The joke of what EWG seems to be doing is producing a dirty dozen or clean fifteen list is that those lists say nothing at all about the risk of a pesticide residue on the particular apple in your fruit-bowl. You could be eating a residue-free fruit from among the “dirty dozen”, or one covered in pesticide from among the “clean fifteen”. Despite the differences in regulations between Europe and the US (and I favour in general the less permissive, more cautious European standards, despite having to work within their restrictions), our agriculture here is constantly increasing in scale, and resembles more and more what would be our stereotyped image of US industrial agriculture. That is because the regulations have more in common than what separates them, and farming is becoming more and more like a business, and less like a passion. I am personally not a fan of industrial agriculture, although I employ mostly similar methods. However, motivation is a key factor, and for me, the motivation is not profit maximisation. For the industrial model is about profit before all else, and that is not a suitable way for the World to produce its food. However, as long as Joe public takes the attitude that 7% of their disposable income is what they will spend on food (that is the Irish %), then agriculture will continue to become more industrial, as for me that is not a percentage that can support the production of produce and foods that consumers might feel more comfortable buying, and might be able to have more confidence in. So, instead of sending 45 bucks to Ken Cook, I would suggest that Joe public either sends it to a principled (and hopefully small-scale) farmer someplace near them, or better still, buys a few fruit trees or invests in a few packets of seeds, and grows their own pesticide-free produce. Con Traas European (Irish) Apple Grower T: @theapplefarmer From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Evan B. Milburn Sent: 28 April 2014 02:32 To: Apple-Crop Subject: Re: [apple-crop] apples and chemicals This was sent to me from a friend of mine by the name of George. It was send to him from one of his co-workers. Evan Milburn www.milburnorchards.com Hey Evan what’s this all about? ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop
Re: [apple-crop] apples and chemicals
This was sent to me from a friend of mine by the name of George. It was send to him from one of his co-workers. Evan Milburn www.milburnorchards.com Editing Template:ALS - Mobile Template - 2013 Hey Evan what’s this all about? Hi George, Thought you might want to send this to your buddy, Mr. Milburn. Dawn Reserve your 2014 Shopper's Guide to Pesticides in Produce bag tag and get a sneak peek of this year's guide! Dear Dawn, Is that apple slathered with a chemical banned in Europe? Earlier this week, EWG told you about apples and diphenylamine (DPA). This chemical used to help preserve stored apples is banned in Europe because of safety concerns, yet it’s widely used on conventionally grown apples in the United States. Not surprisingly, the pro-pesticide Alliance for Food and Farming isn’t too happy about this. As the public relations arm of big, industrial agriculture, this group has already responded to our report with the nonsensical claim that EWG is trying to scare consumers into not eating apples. You know as well as I do that nothing could be further from the truth. The Alliance is just looking to obscure the facts about the food we’re eating at the expense of you, the consumer. Big Ag is on the warpath, but what it doesn’t realize is that EWG has an army of supporters like you behind us – ready to help us stand up against its attacks. You’ve been there for us before, and right now we need your help again to fight back – will you donate today to help us ensure that we all know what pesticides and other chemicals turn up on our fruits and vegetables? Give $25, $45 or more today so EWG can fend off Big Ag’s attacks and we’ll give you a sneak peek at our Shopper’s Guide to Pesticides in Produce before it comes out next week to thank you. If it were up to Big Ag, we’d all be kept in the dark about what’s in our food – even when it has the potential to cause cancer and disrupt the endocrine system. That’s why EWG’s work is so important. We do the research and then translate it into practical, easy-to-use tools such as our Shopper’s Guide to Pesticides in Produce that make safer grocery shopping a breeze. EWG believes that we should all be eating fruits, vegetables and the healthiest food possible. We also believe that you have the right to know what pesticide and chemical residues are on that food. Big conventional chemical agriculture is ready to do whatever it takes to smear the research you count on and to limit your access to information about your food. Can we count on you to stand up to these misleading and underhanded attacks? Donate $25, $45 or more right now to help us fight back against Big Ag and be the first in line to get a look at our 2014 Dirty Dozen and Clean Fifteen lists. Thanks for being a part of the EWG community. Ken Cook President, Environmental Working Group Contribute Follow us on UNSUBSCRIBE | CHANGE OPTIONS Remember to add e...@ewg.org to your contact list. The Environmental Working Group is a non-profit, non-partisan research organization dedicated to using the power of information to protect public health and the environment. The EWG Action Fund, a separate sister organization of EWG, is a legislative advocacy organization that promotes healthy and sustainable policies. Contact Us | Privacy Policy | Copyright 2013, Environmental Working Group. All Rights Reserved. This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop
