[digitalradio] Re: More RSID - PLEASE!
Hi Patrick, That would not be SELCAL. The land mobile radio profession in the U.S. would call that a form of ANI, Automatic Number Identification, i.e. that data squeal you hear on the radios on the bad police reality shows that is prepended to each transmission. Thanks again for all your hard work and wonderful contributions! Scott --- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Lindecker f6...@... wrote: Hello Scott, At the present time, there is a sort of SELCAL called Call ID (RS ID extension). However there is no protocol around it. It's just some information about the Ham (Call sign, Locator...) which pops up on the waterfall. More about Call ID: http://f6cte.free.fr/The_Call_ID_and_Prop_ID_easy_with_Multipsk.doc given a 2 second RSID transmission length 1.4 seconds precisely. 73 Patrick - Original Message - From: aa777888athotmaildotcom aa777...@... To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2009 4:33 PM Subject: [digitalradio] Re: More RSID - PLEASE! You know what's really exciting? We are a hop, skip and jump away from a powerful, lightweight ALE implementation that would probably outperform MIL-STD-188-141A by a large margin. Right now the code scans an entire 3KHz bandwidth for RSID (or more with SDR). When you add in the future, planned SELCAL feature the only things missing after that are scanning and an automated response. It also appears possible that the software would be capable of automatically choosing an empty spot on the waterfall to make the call. This would allow all calls to occur simultaneously and therefore I would suggest time synchronized scanning a la JT65 or WSPR in order to improve probability of intercept without long or repetitive RSID transmissions. Say 4 second dwell per band to allow a +/-1 second guard band on the timing (given a 2 second RSID transmission length). The occasional collision would be worth the simplicity and reliability. Thanks again, Simon! Scott k*b*l*0*0*q --- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, Simon \(HB9DRV\) simon.brown@ wrote: I think it'll take up to a year - then we'll be rocking. Also when we use SDR more there will be a big improvement. Simon Brown, HB9DRV www.ham-radio-deluxe.com - Original Message - From: Tony I think we're making progress with RSID Dave, it's just slow to catch on. Have a look at the RSID video in the file section of this reflector. Announce your digital presence via our Interactive Sked Pages at http://www.obriensweb.com/sked Recommended digital mode software: Winwarbler, FLDIGI, DM780, or Multipsk Logging Software: DXKeeper or Ham Radio Deluxe. Yahoo! Groups Links
[digitalradio] Re: Compressing Data
--- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, Simon \(HB9DRV\) simon.br...@... wrote: Thinking to myself - when we use a mode such as Olivia / MT63 with extensive error correction, why don't we compress the text? Given that fldigi has the wrap feature then surely compression could be / should be considered for some modes? I think I'll add something in my own code that shows the saving were the standard ZIP compression algorithm to be applied my gut feeling is a saving of 80%, I'll report back later today. Simon Brown, HB9DRV www.ham-radio-deluxe.com Great idea! And as you point out it's really only a good idea for modes with extensive error correction as a dropped character has more dire consequences when the data is compressed. New sub-modes, perhaps? Best regards, Scott
[digitalradio] Re: Compressing Data
I don't understand nearly what it would take to do this, but what a clever thought! Would it work on something already compressed, like a JPEG via SSTV without further loss? f, k2ncc --- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, Simon \(HB9DRV\) simon.br...@... wrote: Thinking to myself - when we use a mode such as Olivia / MT63 with extensive error correction, why don't we compress the text?
Re: [digitalradio] Re: Compressing Data
Hi, No - JPEG / SSTV will not be affected. Simon Brown, HB9DRV www.ham-radio-deluxe.com - Original Message - From: frankk2ncc frank.k2...@gmail.com I don't understand nearly what it would take to do this, but what a clever thought! Would it work on something already compressed, like a JPEG via SSTV without further loss?
Re: [digitalradio] Compressing Data
Is it possible to compress a file and lose even one bit during the transfer and still have something usable on the receiving end when you uncompress? Normally, you must use ARQ to insure perfect copy. Even MT63 or Olivia can take a hit every so often. 73, Rick, KV9U Simon (HB9DRV) wrote: Thinking to myself - when we use a mode such as Olivia / MT63 with extensive error correction, why don't we compress the text? Given that fldigi has the wrap feature then surely compression could be / should be considered for some modes? I think I'll add something in my own code that shows the saving were the standard ZIP compression algorithm to be applied my gut feeling is a saving of 80%, I'll report back later today.
Re: [digitalradio] Compressing Data
Depends on the compression, but with ZIP - no, one lost bit and you're - lost! Simon Brown, HB9DRV www.ham-radio-deluxe.com - Original Message - From: Rick W mrf...@frontiernet.net Is it possible to compress a file and lose even one bit during the transfer and still have something usable on the receiving end when you uncompress? Normally, you must use ARQ to insure perfect copy. Even MT63 or Olivia can take a hit every so often.
Re: [digitalradio] Fldigi Linux CD
Another thing to consider is the many USB stick utilities. They take a bootable CD ISO and convert it into a bootable USB image. You can still store files on it as well. Very handy for trying stuff out, and usually much faster to boot. Assumes your PC will boot from USB via bios. If not use one of the universal boot CD's, which then daisy chain to the bootable USB image. UUnetbootin is the utility on the linux side, but there is a similar (and free) utility for windows as well. Just google bootable USB iso or similar. Have fun, Alan km4ba
[digitalradio] Live Webcast - AMSAT-UK Colloquium Guildford, England
The AMSAT-UK International Space Colloquium takes place this Saturday and Sunday July 25/26 at the Holiday Inn Hotel in Guildford, England. The presentations will be webcast live at http://www.batc.tv/ The event opens at 1000 BST (0900 GMT) Saturday and some of the presentations may be of interest to those involved in digital communications. Colloquium Presentations http://www.uk.amsat.org/content/view/679/266/ Booking details http://www.uk.amsat.org/content/view/25/49/ Webcast http://www.batc..tv/ (select Live Events then AMSAT) There's also a Chat facility available - /nick “your callsign” - sets your ID, further details are at http://www.uk.amsat.org/content/view/695/68/ AMSAT-UK publish a colour A4 newsletter, OSCAR News, join online at https://secure.amsat.org.uk/subscription/ 73 Trevor M5AKA
Re: [digitalradio] Fldigi Linux CD
A pretty decent free ISO burner is available at http://isorecorder.alexfeinman.com You can find fldigi as an iso file at http://www.w1hkj.com/Downloads.html 73 Vic KB9JIQ - Original Message - From: Andrew O'Brien To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2009 12:16 AM Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] [digitalradio] Fldigi Linux CD Can someone point me to a free ISO burner and also a current link for a ISO file so that I can burn a new bootable Linus FL-digi? Thanks
[digitalradio] Re: Zapped PCs, data recovery, and Windows !
Oh, and in the future, if you have two identical machines (sometimes I'll build the same machine several times in a row), and want to change the CD key of your freshly installed image of Windows from the previous build, use the Product Key Update tool found here: http://www.microsoft.com/genuine/selfhelp/PKUInstructions.aspx Once a machine is build, I create a restore disk. But I don't want to restore the CD key of the previous customer onto the new one, so I use this tool to change it. Helps get me from a stack of parts to the Windows desktop, ready-to-go, in less than an hour. f
RE: [digitalradio] Re: Zapped PCs, data recovery, and Windows !
re Fast, effective, easy data and O/S moves is a bane for computer techs.
Are there alternatives someone can offer?.
Yes. I use StorageCraft's ShadowProctect for backup and recovery. Like
Norton Ghost, this creates disk images -- but with the ability to perform
hardware-independent recoveries, meaning that you can restore a saved drive
image from PC #1 onto PC #2 where PC #1 and PC #2 are not identical.
Usually, I'm restoring to the same PC that created the image, but on the
several occasions where I've restored an image to different hardware, its
worked flawlessly. PC Labs extensively tested this capability and was quite
impressed.
You can dramatically reduce the time required to recover from hard drive
crash by using StorageCraft or Ghost to create a disk image after you first
loaded your PC with Windows and your applications. Assuming that you
frequently backup your data (logs, scripts, code, whatever), then recovering
from a hard drive crash entails
-- wiping the hard drive
-- restoring the image
-- applying any application updates since the image was created
-- restoring the most recent data backup(s)
StorageCraft and Ghost can both be configured to make a weekly full backup
and a daily incremental backup to an external hard-drive or to a
network-accessible drive. This reduces recovery to a single automated
operation that takes about an hour for my XP systems.
After years of using Ghost (and hating its terrible UI and many defects), I
switched to StorageCraft after seeing some very positive reviews -- and have
been quite happy with it.
I have no relationship with any of the companies mentioned above, but do
have lots of friends in the mass storage business...
73,
Dave, AA6YQ
-Original Message-
From: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:digitalra...@yahoogroups.com]on
Behalf Of frankk2ncc
Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2009 7:34 PM
To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [digitalradio] Re: Zapped PCs, data recovery, and Windows !
Andy,
I often need to get the data off of a dead computer and move it to the new
one. The best way to do in my experience is simply to attach the old drive
as a slave to the new one and start draggin' and droppin'.
Once the old HDD detects in your new PC, go to the appropriate folders.
You'll probably want at least My Documents, Desktop, Favorites, email files,
and odd-n-ends laying around, like saved games.
Using programs to backup and restore (i.e. Files Settings Transfer
Wizard), or swapping old Windows HDD onto new PC, simply doesn't work as
well.
You can't move Windows over, as Microsoft deems that the license goes with
the machine ('specially OEM like Dell, etc.) And most programs have to be
installed and can't be moved. Too many files and registry entries to do so
safely. And honestly, if it's been a while since you've re-installed Windows
on the old PC, you're better off with a fresh one.
Fast, effective, easy data and O/S moves is a bane for computer techs. Are
there alternatives someone can offer?. (Something they've tried themselves,
no CNET reviews or GOOGLE search results please!)
Since this isn't a computer help forum, I'm wondering if we should take this
elsewhere?
f, k2ncc
Re: [digitalradio] Zapped PCs, data recovery, and Windows !
Thanks Rick. Kinda like buying a car and it being rendered inoperative if I installed a new engine. On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 6:59 PM, Rick Ellison relli...@twcny.rr.com wrote: My local computer store tells me that one cannot simply take a hard drive from a old Pc and place it in a new PC even if you have a Windows license disc for the new PC. Is this correct? Unless you install it in a computer that has the exact same hardware (Motherboard, Video, Ect.) yes this is true. 9 out of 10 times the system will crash because you are trying to load drivers for hardware that is not present…. 73 Rick N2AMG *From:* digitalradio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:digitalra...@yahoogroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Andrew O'Brien *Sent:* Thursday, July 23, 2009 6:38 PM *To:* digitalradio@yahoogroups.com *Subject:* [digitalradio] Zapped PCs, data recovery, and Windows ! After years or running PC's without issues, I have had 4 go bad in 12 months. Two this week, 4 days apart via thunderstorms . One went today just an hour after I had fully reinstalled ham equipment on a new PC that arrived yesterday. The new one survived, I had unplugged it at the sound of thunder. I powered off the older one but forgot to remove the power cord, it got zapped. I put in a spare power supply that i had, that lasted 5 minutes and gave up the ghost. Maybe something else was weakened by the original zap and caused the second power supply to burn out. Anyway, my main issue is the frustrating fact that I have data on hard drives that seems ridiculously complex to retrieve when using Windows based PCs. My local computer store tells me that one cannot simply take a hard drive from a old Pc and place it in a new PC even if you have a Windows license disc for the new PC. Is this correct? In the past I have taken old drives and installed them in different PC's as slave drives. However this causes one to have to re-install many programs because they were originally installed to the registry on a C-drive. So what do I do with 5 hard drives laying around the shack ? In particular one two-drive system with 160 gigs of useful data on it (both have Windows OS on them since both are from different original PC systems!) . It would be nice to install in to a PC without having to get a HD with an OS on it. -- Andy -- Andy
[digitalradio] Help with FLDIGI ..
Hello, Reader (s) I am trying to get startet with FLDIGI and my FT897d, i am using a simple cat cable, that works oke with HRD and MIXW, but i cannot get it working with FLDIGI. So, the question is, ? must i use some kind of extra file, or must i use a special start procedure ? Perhaps someone can and will help me . Thanks Ron PD1ANB ( pd1...@amsat.org )
[digitalradio] Re: Zapped PCs, data recovery, and Windows !
--- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, Dave AA6YQ aa...@... wrote: There is nothing in the Windows End User License Agreement that precludes attaching a disk on which Windows has been installed to another PC running Windows (or any other OS). You cannot do this with an OEM copy of Windows*. Which, unless you had it custom built, is likely what you have. If you own a Dell, HP, etc., it's OEM. That's the reason you have to re-activate Windows when you change enough hardware. Do enough changes and it's technically a new machine! That's also why OEM copies of Windows is less than half-price of the retail version, which you ARE license to move, so long as it's one PC (assuming 1 CPU license.) If you have frequent power outages, I recommend adding a UPS capable of Amen! 100 bucks will save you a thousand. Brown/black outs are potentially just as damaging as a surge. I recommend APC brand. Get at least a 750 in your model number. f *Current OEM licenses for all Microsoft operating system products are not transferable from one machine to another. http://download.microsoft.com/download/4/e/3/4e3eace0-4c6d-4123-9d0c-c80436181742/OSLicQA.doc (No MS Word? Download openoffice.org or the DOC viewer here: http://tinyurl.com/docviewer2003 )
[digitalradio] Re: Zapped PCs, data recovery, and Windows !
Andy,
I often need to get the data off of a dead computer and move it to the new one.
The best way to do in my experience is simply to attach the old drive as a
slave to the new one and start draggin' and droppin'.
Once the old HDD detects in your new PC, go to the appropriate folders. You'll
probably want at least My Documents, Desktop, Favorites, email files, and
odd-n-ends laying around, like saved games.
Using programs to backup and restore (i.e. Files Settings Transfer Wizard),
or swapping old Windows HDD onto new PC, simply doesn't work as well.
You can't move Windows over, as Microsoft deems that the license goes with the
machine ('specially OEM like Dell, etc.) And most programs have to be
installed and can't be moved. Too many files and registry entries to do so
safely. And honestly, if it's been a while since you've re-installed Windows
on the old PC, you're better off with a fresh one.
Fast, effective, easy data and O/S moves is a bane for computer techs. Are
there alternatives someone can offer?. (Something they've tried themselves, no
CNET reviews or GOOGLE search results please!)
Since this isn't a computer help forum, I'm wondering if we should take this
elsewhere?
f, k2ncc
RE: [digitalradio] Re: Zapped PCs, data recovery, and Windows !
I should have been more clear: there is nothing in the Windows EULA that precludes attaching a disk on which Windows has been installed as slave drive to another PC running Windows (or any other OS). Since Windows is not being run on the attached drive, there is no transfer of Windows. I used to buy Dells, but I've been assembling my own PCs for the past couple of years. Thus I don't use OEM Windows licenses. 73, Dave, AA6YQ -Original Message- From: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:digitalra...@yahoogroups.com]on Behalf Of frankk2ncc Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2009 7:57 PM To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Subject: [digitalradio] Re: Zapped PCs, data recovery, and Windows ! --- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, Dave AA6YQ aa...@... wrote: There is nothing in the Windows End User License Agreement that precludes attaching a disk on which Windows has been installed to another PC running Windows (or any other OS). You cannot do this with an OEM copy of Windows*. Which, unless you had it custom built, is likely what you have. If you own a Dell, HP, etc., it's OEM. That's the reason you have to re-activate Windows when you change enough hardware. Do enough changes and it's technically a new machine! That's also why OEM copies of Windows is less than half-price of the retail version, which you ARE license to move, so long as it's one PC (assuming 1 CPU license.) If you have frequent power outages, I recommend adding a UPS capable of Amen! 100 bucks will save you a thousand. Brown/black outs are potentially just as damaging as a surge. I recommend APC brand. Get at least a 750 in your model number. f *Current OEM licenses for all Microsoft operating system products are not transferable from one machine to another. http://download.microsoft.com/download/4/e/3/4e3eace0-4c6d-4123-9d0c-c804361 81742/OSLicQA.doc (No MS Word? Download openoffice.org or the DOC viewer here: http://tinyurl.com/docviewer2003 )
RE: [digitalradio] Zapped PCs, data recovery, and Windows !
You cannot replace the C drive of Windows PC #1 with the C drive of Windows PC #2 and expect the resulting machine to boot unless PC #1 and PC #2 use the same motherboard and peripherals. However, you can configure the C drive of PC #2 to be a secondary drive in PC #1 assuming that PC #1 supports the appropriate hardware interface -- e.g. if the PC #2's hard drive uses an IDE interface, then you'll need an IDE interface in PC #1. Addonics makes a product that lets you convert any IDE drive into an external USB drive. Access via USB is significantly slower than native IDE access, but you can connect to any PC with a USB interface; perhaps they have a USB 2.0 version by now: http://www.addonics.com/products/io/ While converters like these are somewhat slow, they allow you to connect a drive up to a running PC -- eliminating the need to power it down, open its chassis, and make the IDE or SATA connection -- which can be difficult in a smaller chassis stuffed with cables. I have occasionally moved IDE drives between PCs whose motherboards were manufactured by different companies, but never encountered a driver problem. When it doesn't work the right off the bat, its usually a master/slave configuration issue; I've also run into IDE cables with bad slave connectivity (cable or connector problems). There is nothing in the Windows End User License Agreement that precludes attaching a disk on which Windows has been installed to another PC running Windows (or any other OS). If you have frequent power outages, I recommend adding a UPS capable of powering your PC long enough to shut down Windows in an orderly fashion; otherwise, you are subjecting the data on your hard drive(s) to risk from both power surges and from being scribbled upon if the drive happens to be in the middle of write operation when the power fails. APC makes a nice product, but be sure to not buy one larger than is needed for ~5 minutes of operation. I have no relationship with any of the companies mentioned above... 73, Dave, AA6YQ -Original Message- From: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:digitalra...@yahoogroups.com]on Behalf Of Andrew O'Brien Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2009 6:38 PM To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Subject: [digitalradio] Zapped PCs, data recovery, and Windows ! After years or running PC's without issues, I have had 4 go bad in 12 months. Two this week, 4 days apart via thunderstorms . One went today just an hour after I had fully reinstalled ham equipment on a new PC that arrived yesterday. The new one survived, I had unplugged it at the sound of thunder. I powered off the older one but forgot to remove the power cord, it got zapped. I put in a spare power supply that i had, that lasted 5 minutes and gave up the ghost. Maybe something else was weakened by the original zap and caused the second power supply to burn out. Anyway, my main issue is the frustrating fact that I have data on hard drives that seems ridiculously complex to retrieve when using Windows based PCs. My local computer store tells me that one cannot simply take a hard drive from a old Pc and place it in a new PC even if you have a Windows license disc for the new PC. Is this correct? In the past I have taken old drives and installed them in different PC's as slave drives. However this causes one to have to re-install many programs because they were originally installed to the registry on a C-drive. So what do I do with 5 hard drives laying around the shack ? In particular one two-drive system with 160 gigs of useful data on it (both have Windows OS on them since both are from different original PC systems!) . It would be nice to install in to a PC without having to get a HD with an OS on it. -- Andy
RE: [digitalradio] Help with FLDIGI ..
Hi Ron, Not clear from your message is if you've got sound card connections made up also. I'm having to guess that if MixW and HRD are working for you using data modes over the air that you do have a working sound card setup. The CAT cable is only going to be able to set and read the frequency of your radio, and control or retrieve mode information - and that direct-connection operation will only work if nothing else is using the serial port at the same time as fldigi is trying to use it. PC hardware inherently allows only one software program or driver to use a particular serial port at a time. So you might need to close one or more other programs before fldigi can capture the serial port for CAT operations. Hope that helps, and 73 Bob, KD7NM -Original Message- From: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:digitalra...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of swlstation Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2009 1:46 PM To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Subject: [digitalradio] Help with FLDIGI .. Hello, Reader (s) I am trying to get startet with FLDIGI and my FT897d, i am using a simple cat cable, that works oke with HRD and MIXW, but i cannot get it working with FLDIGI. So, the question is, ? must i use some kind of extra file, or must i use a special start procedure ? Perhaps someone can and will help me . Thanks Ron PD1ANB ( pd1...@amsat.org ) Announce your digital presence via our Interactive Sked Pages at http://www.obriensweb.com/sked Recommended digital mode software: Winwarbler, FLDIGI, DM780, or Multipsk Logging Software: DXKeeper or Ham Radio Deluxe. Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [digitalradio] Zapped PCs, data recovery, and Windows !
The latest Puppy Linux is here: http://puppylinux.org/downloads/official-releases/latest-production-version (not the NBEMS version, but will work). You just need a computer to access the Internet and a program that will burn an ISO. 73, Skip KH6TY Andrew O'Brien wrote: yes, I thought of that Skip. I am looking for a copy of my working Puppy, cleaned the shack last week and have misplaced it. I should point out that I am close to having almost everything I need ,expect OS, backed up on teh web and accessible when I need to start over. I have my log backed up and I email it to myself as an attachment via Gmail, then use products like DXLab, HRD, Fldigib that can easily be reinstalled for free, and my Multipsk license is also backup via the Internet. Today's zapped computer however contains 20 gigs of paid for Itunes stuff. Luckily a nifty program call copytrans allows me to retrieve back to Itunes from the Ipod. On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 6:47 PM, kh6ty kh...@comcast.net mailto:kh...@comcast.net wrote: Andy, Try running a NBEMS Puppy Linux CD live. You can access all the data and windows partitions with Puppy from the Puppy Desktop. 73, Skip KH6TY Andrew O'Brien wrote: After years or running PC's without issues, I have had 4 go bad in 12 months. Two this week, 4 days apart via thunderstorms . One went today just an hour after I had fully reinstalled ham equipment on a new PC that arrived yesterday. The new one survived, I had unplugged it at the sound of thunder. I powered off the older one but forgot to remove the power cord, it got zapped. I put in a spare power supply that i had, that lasted 5 minutes and gave up the ghost. Maybe something else was weakened by the original zap and caused the second power supply to burn out. Anyway, my main issue is the frustrating fact that I have data on hard drives that seems ridiculously complex to retrieve when using Windows based PCs. My local computer store tells me that one cannot simply take a hard drive from a old Pc and place it in a new PC even if you have a Windows license disc for the new PC. Is this correct? In the past I have taken old drives and installed them in different PC's as slave drives. However this causes one to have to re-install many programs because they were originally installed to the registry on a C-drive. So what do I do with 5 hard drives laying around the shack ? In particular one two-drive system with 160 gigs of useful data on it (both have Windows OS on them since both are from different original PC systems!) . It would be nice to install in to a PC without having to get a HD with an OS on it. -- Andy -- *Skip KH6TY* http://KH6TY.home.comcast.net http://KH6TY.home.comcast.net -- Andy -- *Skip KH6TY* http://KH6TY.home.comcast.net
RE: [digitalradio] Zapped PCs, data recovery, and Windows !
It is true that you can have driver issues if you try to use a primary (C) drive from one computer on another. However, it is not insurmountable. I recently bought a de-branded HP computer that had no operating system, but was designed for Vista. I wanted to put XP on it, and it took a while to find all the XP drivers. If you simply want to get files off of other drives, just install the drive as a secondary (slave) drive. I do that all the time. Of course you still have to have an operating system on a C drive in order to do that. If you have installed actual programs on the new slave drive, then you do have to reinstall them to get the Windows registry set up correctly. If you are only concerned about data files, and not program files, then retrieving them is about as easy as it can get. Nothing complex about it. It's no different from what we used to do to extract files from a floppy disk. I highly recommend that you use a UPS on all your computers. Saves all that frustration with voltage transients. Dick -Original Message- From: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:digitalra...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Andrew O'Brien Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2009 3:38 PM To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Subject: [digitalradio] Zapped PCs, data recovery, and Windows ! After years or running PC's without issues, I have had 4 go bad in 12 months. Two this week, 4 days apart via thunderstorms . One went today just an hour after I had fully reinstalled ham equipment on a new PC that arrived yesterday. The new one survived, I had unplugged it at the sound of thunder. I powered off the older one but forgot to remove the power cord, it got zapped. I put in a spare power supply that i had, that lasted 5 minutes and gave up the ghost. Maybe something else was weakened by the original zap and caused the second power supply to burn out. Anyway, my main issue is the frustrating fact that I have data on hard drives that seems ridiculously complex to retrieve when using Windows based PCs. My local computer store tells me that one cannot simply take a hard drive from a old Pc and place it in a new PC even if you have a Windows license disc for the new PC. Is this correct? In the past I have taken old drives and installed them in different PC's as slave drives. However this causes one to have to re-install many programs because they were originally installed to the registry on a C-drive. So what do I do with 5 hard drives laying around the shack ? In particular one two-drive system with 160 gigs of useful data on it (both have Windows OS on them since both are from different original PC systems!) . It would be nice to install in to a PC without having to get a HD with an OS on it. -- Andy
RE: [digitalradio] Zapped PCs, data recovery, and Windows !
My local computer store tells me that one cannot simply take a hard drive from a old Pc and place it in a new PC even if you have a Windows license disc for the new PC. Is this correct? Unless you install it in a computer that has the exact same hardware (Motherboard, Video, Ect.) yes this is true. 9 out of 10 times the system will crash because you are trying to load drivers for hardware that is not present.. 73 Rick N2AMG From: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:digitalra...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Andrew O'Brien Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2009 6:38 PM To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Subject: [digitalradio] Zapped PCs, data recovery, and Windows ! After years or running PC's without issues, I have had 4 go bad in 12 months. Two this week, 4 days apart via thunderstorms . One went today just an hour after I had fully reinstalled ham equipment on a new PC that arrived yesterday. The new one survived, I had unplugged it at the sound of thunder. I powered off the older one but forgot to remove the power cord, it got zapped. I put in a spare power supply that i had, that lasted 5 minutes and gave up the ghost. Maybe something else was weakened by the original zap and caused the second power supply to burn out. Anyway, my main issue is the frustrating fact that I have data on hard drives that seems ridiculously complex to retrieve when using Windows based PCs. My local computer store tells me that one cannot simply take a hard drive from a old Pc and place it in a new PC even if you have a Windows license disc for the new PC. Is this correct? In the past I have taken old drives and installed them in different PC's as slave drives. However this causes one to have to re-install many programs because they were originally installed to the registry on a C-drive. So what do I do with 5 hard drives laying around the shack ? In particular one two-drive system with 160 gigs of useful data on it (both have Windows OS on them since both are from different original PC systems!) . It would be nice to install in to a PC without having to get a HD with an OS on it. -- Andy
Re: [digitalradio] Zapped PCs, data recovery, and Windows !
yes, I thought of that Skip. I am looking for a copy of my working Puppy, cleaned the shack last week and have misplaced it. I should point out that I am close to having almost everything I need ,expect OS, backed up on teh web and accessible when I need to start over. I have my log backed up and I email it to myself as an attachment via Gmail, then use products like DXLab, HRD, Fldigib that can easily be reinstalled for free, and my Multipsk license is also backup via the Internet. Today's zapped computer however contains 20 gigs of paid for Itunes stuff. Luckily a nifty program call copytrans allows me to retrieve back to Itunes from the Ipod. On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 6:47 PM, kh6ty kh...@comcast.net wrote: Andy, Try running a NBEMS Puppy Linux CD live. You can access all the data and windows partitions with Puppy from the Puppy Desktop. 73, Skip KH6TY Andrew O'Brien wrote: After years or running PC's without issues, I have had 4 go bad in 12 months. Two this week, 4 days apart via thunderstorms . One went today just an hour after I had fully reinstalled ham equipment on a new PC that arrived yesterday. The new one survived, I had unplugged it at the sound of thunder. I powered off the older one but forgot to remove the power cord, it got zapped. I put in a spare power supply that i had, that lasted 5 minutes and gave up the ghost. Maybe something else was weakened by the original zap and caused the second power supply to burn out. Anyway, my main issue is the frustrating fact that I have data on hard drives that seems ridiculously complex to retrieve when using Windows based PCs. My local computer store tells me that one cannot simply take a hard drive from a old Pc and place it in a new PC even if you have a Windows license disc for the new PC. Is this correct? In the past I have taken old drives and installed them in different PC's as slave drives. However this causes one to have to re-install many programs because they were originally installed to the registry on a C-drive. So what do I do with 5 hard drives laying around the shack ? In particular one two-drive system with 160 gigs of useful data on it (both have Windows OS on them since both are from different original PC systems!) . It would be nice to install in to a PC without having to get a HD with an OS on it. -- Andy -- *Skip KH6TY* http://KH6TY.home.comcast.net -- Andy
[digitalradio] Re: Zapped PCs, data recovery, and Windows !
This isnt exactly true either.
In general as with all retail activated products (which OEM is in genral)
if you wait around 6 months or sometimes a lot less it will activate on another
pc. providing that the machine is of similar type.
I.e. if you obtained Windows XP with a dell machine, it will in general
activate on another dell PC
As will OEM Office editions.
That doesnt make it legal if its a completly new machine, but it does mean that
if you stick to say dell as a brand you could stick the hard disk in another
dell machine and it will more than probably activate.
--- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, Dave AA6YQ aa...@... wrote:
re Fast, effective, easy data and O/S moves is a bane for computer techs.
Are there alternatives someone can offer?.
Yes. I use StorageCraft's ShadowProctect for backup and recovery. Like
Norton Ghost, this creates disk images -- but with the ability to perform
hardware-independent recoveries, meaning that you can restore a saved drive
image from PC #1 onto PC #2 where PC #1 and PC #2 are not identical.
Usually, I'm restoring to the same PC that created the image, but on the
several occasions where I've restored an image to different hardware, its
worked flawlessly. PC Labs extensively tested this capability and was quite
impressed.
You can dramatically reduce the time required to recover from hard drive
crash by using StorageCraft or Ghost to create a disk image after you first
loaded your PC with Windows and your applications. Assuming that you
frequently backup your data (logs, scripts, code, whatever), then recovering
from a hard drive crash entails
-- wiping the hard drive
-- restoring the image
-- applying any application updates since the image was created
-- restoring the most recent data backup(s)
StorageCraft and Ghost can both be configured to make a weekly full backup
and a daily incremental backup to an external hard-drive or to a
network-accessible drive. This reduces recovery to a single automated
operation that takes about an hour for my XP systems.
After years of using Ghost (and hating its terrible UI and many defects), I
switched to StorageCraft after seeing some very positive reviews -- and have
been quite happy with it.
I have no relationship with any of the companies mentioned above, but do
have lots of friends in the mass storage business...
73,
Dave, AA6YQ
-Original Message-
From: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:digitalra...@yahoogroups.com]on
Behalf Of frankk2ncc
Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2009 7:34 PM
To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [digitalradio] Re: Zapped PCs, data recovery, and Windows !
Andy,
I often need to get the data off of a dead computer and move it to the new
one. The best way to do in my experience is simply to attach the old drive
as a slave to the new one and start draggin' and droppin'.
Once the old HDD detects in your new PC, go to the appropriate folders.
You'll probably want at least My Documents, Desktop, Favorites, email files,
and odd-n-ends laying around, like saved games.
Using programs to backup and restore (i.e. Files Settings Transfer
Wizard), or swapping old Windows HDD onto new PC, simply doesn't work as
well.
You can't move Windows over, as Microsoft deems that the license goes with
the machine ('specially OEM like Dell, etc.) And most programs have to be
installed and can't be moved. Too many files and registry entries to do so
safely. And honestly, if it's been a while since you've re-installed Windows
on the old PC, you're better off with a fresh one.
Fast, effective, easy data and O/S moves is a bane for computer techs. Are
there alternatives someone can offer?. (Something they've tried themselves,
no CNET reviews or GOOGLE search results please!)
Since this isn't a computer help forum, I'm wondering if we should take this
elsewhere?
f, k2ncc
[digitalradio] Re: Zapped PCs, data recovery, and Windows !
In that sense then there is no license to run it either, just as there is nothing saying you cannot do it, there is nothing saying you can Its morally wrong, you might not like paying for the correct license, but it doesnt make it any more right than borrwing some bread from a bakers when you're hungry without paying for it. There isnt a sign up saying no borrowing but that doesnt mean you can just go ahead and do it Pay for what you use, fine experement with something. But if you want windows then get the correct edition, with the correct license. OEM editions shouldnt be abused --- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, Dave AA6YQ aa...@... wrote: I should have been more clear: there is nothing in the Windows EULA that precludes attaching a disk on which Windows has been installed as slave drive to another PC running Windows (or any other OS). Since Windows is not being run on the attached drive, there is no transfer of Windows. I used to buy Dells, but I've been assembling my own PCs for the past couple of years. Thus I don't use OEM Windows licenses. 73, Dave, AA6YQ -Original Message- From: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:digitalra...@yahoogroups.com]on Behalf Of frankk2ncc Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2009 7:57 PM To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Subject: [digitalradio] Re: Zapped PCs, data recovery, and Windows ! --- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, Dave AA6YQ aa6yq@ wrote: There is nothing in the Windows End User License Agreement that precludes attaching a disk on which Windows has been installed to another PC running Windows (or any other OS). You cannot do this with an OEM copy of Windows*. Which, unless you had it custom built, is likely what you have. If you own a Dell, HP, etc., it's OEM. That's the reason you have to re-activate Windows when you change enough hardware. Do enough changes and it's technically a new machine! That's also why OEM copies of Windows is less than half-price of the retail version, which you ARE license to move, so long as it's one PC (assuming 1 CPU license.) If you have frequent power outages, I recommend adding a UPS capable of Amen! 100 bucks will save you a thousand. Brown/black outs are potentially just as damaging as a surge. I recommend APC brand. Get at least a 750 in your model number. f *Current OEM licenses for all Microsoft operating system products are not transferable from one machine to another. http://download.microsoft.com/download/4/e/3/4e3eace0-4c6d-4123-9d0c-c804361 81742/OSLicQA.doc (No MS Word? Download openoffice.org or the DOC viewer here: http://tinyurl.com/docviewer2003 )
RE: [digitalradio] Re: Zapped PCs, data recovery, and Windows !
There is nothing legally or morally wrong with attaching a hard drive (as a secondary drive, not as the C: drive) to a PC running Windows in order to move data to or from that hard drive -- whether or not that hard drive has Windows installed (under any flavor of Microsoft license). 73, Dave, AA6YQ -Original Message- From: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:digitalra...@yahoogroups.com]on Behalf Of damienjorgensen Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2009 8:51 PM To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Subject: [digitalradio] Re: Zapped PCs, data recovery, and Windows ! In that sense then there is no license to run it either, just as there is nothing saying you cannot do it, there is nothing saying you can Its morally wrong, you might not like paying for the correct license, but it doesnt make it any more right than borrwing some bread from a bakers when you're hungry without paying for it. There isnt a sign up saying no borrowing but that doesnt mean you can just go ahead and do it Pay for what you use, fine experement with something. But if you want windows then get the correct edition, with the correct license. OEM editions shouldnt be abused --- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, Dave AA6YQ aa...@... wrote: I should have been more clear: there is nothing in the Windows EULA that precludes attaching a disk on which Windows has been installed as slave drive to another PC running Windows (or any other OS). Since Windows is not being run on the attached drive, there is no transfer of Windows. I used to buy Dells, but I've been assembling my own PCs for the past couple of years. Thus I don't use OEM Windows licenses. 73, Dave, AA6YQ -Original Message- From: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:digitalra...@yahoogroups.com]on Behalf Of frankk2ncc Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2009 7:57 PM To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Subject: [digitalradio] Re: Zapped PCs, data recovery, and Windows ! --- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, Dave AA6YQ aa6yq@ wrote: There is nothing in the Windows End User License Agreement that precludes attaching a disk on which Windows has been installed to another PC running Windows (or any other OS). You cannot do this with an OEM copy of Windows*. Which, unless you had it custom built, is likely what you have. If you own a Dell, HP, etc., it's OEM. That's the reason you have to re-activate Windows when you change enough hardware. Do enough changes and it's technically a new machine! That's also why OEM copies of Windows is less than half-price of the retail version, which you ARE license to move, so long as it's one PC (assuming 1 CPU license.) If you have frequent power outages, I recommend adding a UPS capable of Amen! 100 bucks will save you a thousand. Brown/black outs are potentially just as damaging as a surge. I recommend APC brand. Get at least a 750 in your model number. f *Current OEM licenses for all Microsoft operating system products are not transferable from one machine to another. http://download.microsoft.com/download/4/e/3/4e3eace0-4c6d-4123-9d0c-c804361 81742/OSLicQA.doc (No MS Word? Download openoffice.org or the DOC viewer here: http://tinyurl.com/docviewer2003 )
Re: [digitalradio] Zapped PCs, data recovery, and Windows !
On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 18:38:00 -0400, Andrew O'Brien andrewob...@gmail.com said: My local computer store tells me that one cannot simply take a hard drive from a old Pc and place it in a new PC even if you have a Windows license disc for the new PC. Is this correct? I expect you'll have all kinds of driver issues. Also, Windows treats its users as maybe-criminals and requires permission from the mothership every time the hardware changes significantly. On a Linux system you have neither of these problems. I would expect the transplanted hard drive to work on a new machine (after all, the LiveCD runs everywhere) and of course there's none of that activation nonsense. As for running Windows software, I hear that VirtualBox works very well these days :-) -- 73, Stelios, M0GLD.
Re: [digitalradio] Zapped PCs, data recovery, and Windows !
Andrew O'Brien wrote: Thanks Rick. Kinda like buying a car and it being rendered inoperative if I installed a new engine. Exactly. You would most likely have to buy the exact same make, model, and year of car for it to work. Tim, N9PUZ Announce your digital presence via our Interactive Sked Pages at http://www.obriensweb.com/sked Recommended digital mode software: Winwarbler, FLDIGI, DM780, or Multipsk Logging Software: DXKeeper or Ham Radio Deluxe. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitalradio/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitalradio/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:digitalradio-dig...@yahoogroups.com mailto:digitalradio-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: digitalradio-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [digitalradio] Zapped PCs, data recovery, and Windows !
Andrew O'Brien wrote: After years or running PC's without issues, I have had 4 go bad in 12 months. Two this week, 4 days apart via thunderstorms . One went today just an hour after I had fully reinstalled ham equipment on a new PC that arrived yesterday. The new one survived, I had unplugged it at the sound of thunder. I powered off the older one but forgot to remove the power cord, it got zapped. I put in a spare power supply that i had, that lasted 5 minutes and gave up the ghost. Maybe something else was weakened by the original zap and caused the second power supply to burn out. Your question has been answered several times. Once the next one is up and running... 1. Use a good quality UPS so you have nice clean power going to the machine all the time. 2. Make sure any other lines such as network cables either have good surge protectors and/or are unplugged. This include sound card interfaces, serial port rig control stuff, etc. 3. Use a disk image program such as Ghost, True Image, or Terabyte's Image for Windows/Linux/DOS for backups. In the event that the disk drive fails you can be back up and running very quickly. I like to back up to an external USB drive that I normally leave unplugged from AC power and disconnected from the computer. 4. I work from home. In addition to all of the above my office computer has a RAID 1 disk array. There are two 500GB drives but the disk controller mirrors one to the other. The computer thinks there is a single drive. If one drive goes TU you can replace it, reboot, and the controller rebuilds the new drive to again be a mirror of the old one. Drives are very inexpensive these days. Tim, N9PUZ
