Re: [Emc-developers] EtherCAT - would not be a prob with free membership in EtherCAT Technology Group Re: LinuxCNC is in Debian!

[Jérémie Tarot]

Hi,

Le jeu. 17 mars 2022 à 18:13, Joseph Spanier  a écrit :

> Hey Guys,
> I am close to Tormach and actively working with them on their ROS driven
> robot.


Great!
They also use machinekit-hal for it, right?

If someone can concisely frame the situation and detail what you
> need I'd be happy to make an intro with Rogge. I tried to find a clear
> thread of this discussion on sourceforge that I could just forward to them
> but I couldn't find one.
>

Is that better that that SF crap?
https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net/msg22354.html

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Re: [Emc-developers] EtherCAT - would not be a prob with free membership in EtherCAT Technology Group Re: LinuxCNC is in Debian!

[Joseph Spanier]

Hey Guys,
I am close to Tormach and actively working with them on their ROS driven
robot. If someone can concisely frame the situation and detail what you
need I'd be happy to make an intro with Rogge. I tried to find a clear
thread of this discussion on sourceforge that I could just forward to them
but I couldn't find one.

Thanks
Joe

On Fri, Mar 4, 2022 at 1:17 AM Jérémie Tarot  wrote:

> Le ven. 4 mars 2022 à 02:13, Rod Webster  a
> écrit :
>
> > >  Anyone close to ROS?
> > Tormach. Anyone close to Tormach?
> >
>
>
> Maybe open a friendly issue/discussion there
>
> https://github.com/tormach/hal_ros_control
>
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Re: [Emc-developers] EtherCAT - would not be a prob with free membership in EtherCAT Technology Group Re: LinuxCNC is in Debian!

[Jérémie Tarot]

Le ven. 4 mars 2022 à 02:13, Rod Webster  a écrit :

> >  Anyone close to ROS?
> Tormach. Anyone close to Tormach?
>


Maybe open a friendly issue/discussion there

https://github.com/tormach/hal_ros_control

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Re: [Emc-developers] EtherCAT - would not be a prob with free membership in EtherCAT Technology Group Re: LinuxCNC is in Debian!

[gene heskett]

On Thursday, 3 March 2022 19:55:07 EST Rod Webster wrote:
> >Some of us remember when the EMC corporation sent their lawyers
> >calling because we had a similar name to them. No matter that we had
> >it first.
> 
I'm one of them. And I was pissed at the audacity of a bookkeeper who was 
a johnny come lately not even worthy of capitalizing the J.
OTOH, it did force a more useful name on us. So it wasn't all bad.

> Before my time.
> There are plenty of examples where the user of an untrademarked name
> has had to cease and desist after another organization trademarks a
> word already in use.
> Even to the extent of an Australian  Winemaker called Chardon being
> taken to task by Moet and Chandon to name a small local example.
> Or Aussie made Ugg Boots losing the name to  a US trademark... which
> was the blatant hijacking of a product.
> 
> That's why I hold a trademark of my brand.
> 
> This is quite different as we are not purporting to be Ethercat or
> trading as Ethercat. We are just talking about licensing where credit
> has to be given. Its not even close to the EMC example.
> 
> 
> Rod Webster
> *1300 896 832*
> +61 435 765 611
> Vehicle Modifications Network
> www.vehiclemods.net.au
> 
> On Fri, 4 Mar 2022 at 10:37, andy pugh  wrote:
> > On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 at 16:17, gene heskett  
wrote:
> > > I don't see the future risk as zero...
> > 
> > Some of us remember when the EMC corporation sent their lawyers
> > calling because we had a similar name to them. No matter that we had
> > it first.
> > 
> > Beckhof have been very clear that they own the word EtherCAT, we
> > wouldn't even have the same wiggle room we had last time (and last
> > time we were in the right and still stood little chance)
> > 
> > --
> > atp
> > "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> > designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> > lunatics."
> > — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
> > 
> > 
> > ___
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> > Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net
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> 
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Cheers, Gene Heskett.
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis





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Re: [Emc-developers] EtherCAT - would not be a prob with free membership in EtherCAT Technology Group Re: LinuxCNC is in Debian!

[Stefan Asmus]

Below is Daniel Rogge ( Tormach CEO) email. He seems happy to correspond via 
email to people who have questions about their products. I have spoken to him 
about the software for their new ZA6 robot and he was happy to answer questions.

dro...@tormach.com

From: Rod Webster 
Sent: Friday, 4 March 2022 12:11 PM
To: EMC developers 
Subject: Re: [Emc-developers] EtherCAT - would not be a prob with free 
membership in EtherCAT Technology Group Re: LinuxCNC is in Debian!

>  Anyone close to ROS?
Tormach. Anyone close to Tormach?

Rod Webster
*1300 896 832*
+61 435 765 611
Vehicle Modifications Network
www.vehiclemods.net.au


On Fri, 4 Mar 2022 at 11:07, Steffen Möller  wrote:

> Rod,
>
> I wish some of our LinuxCNC Gurus would know some of the ROS Gurus and
> jointly meditate over this. We should possibly not discuss this too much
> as a sole CNC/robotics problem. This tech is useful whenever you need to
> synchronize something between multiple machines/devices.
>
> I truly don't know what we should be doing as a community. Anyone close
> to ROS?
>
> Best,
> Steffen
>
>
> On 03.03.22 20:55, Rod Webster wrote:
> > Steffen
> >
> > You have done some amazing work and we now know what we are dealing with
> > rather than just guessing as we've done before.
> >
> > I think its not about the last 20 years but about the next 20. I think we
> > will see an increasing number of ethercat capable devices in use as more
> > vendors adopt the technology.
> > There are also an increasing number of linuxcnc users using the software
> on
> > commercial projects and retrofits of commercial machines.
> >
> > ROS appear to be simply embedding the SOEM in a sub folder in their
> > ethercat master wrapper based on an article they link to in the readme. I
> > guess they can do this under  the GPL.
> >
> > Any restrictions appear to be placed on users of the technology, not the
> > software developer. Linuxcnc does not use software, our members do. This
> is
> > an important distinction.
> > I think this allows Linuxcnc to treat the proposed driver as being GPL'd
> at
> > a distribution level like ROS has.
> >
> > Now we know of the SOEM's existence, it would be preferable to use it
> over
> > the IgH ethercat master if it's compatible with our architecture. It's a
> > much tighter integration then.
> >
> > It's clear that membership is not required. I can't see any impediment to
> > building a separate repository like has been done with mesaflash that
> > embeds the SOEM like ROS has done. If the rules change, it will be simple
> > to excise the orphaned child or just remove the SOEM subfolder.
> >
> >
> > Rod Webster
> > *1300 896 832*
> > +61 435 765 611
> > Vehicle Modifications Network
> > www.vehiclemods.net.au
> >
> >
> > On Fri, 4 Mar 2022 at 02:22, Steffen Möller 
> wrote:
> >
> >> Hi Marc,
> >>
> >> yes, something like http://wiki.ros.org/soem ? I have not followed that
> >> up.
> >>
> >> Best,
> >> Steffen
> >>
> >> On 03.03.22 16:54, Marc Wang wrote:
> >>> Hi Steffen,
> >>>
> >>> By ROS, are you referring to Robotic Operating System (
> >> https://www.ros.org/)?
> >>>
> >>> Regards,
> >>> Marc
> >>>
> >>> 
> >>> From: andy pugh 
> >>> Sent: Thursday, March 3, 2022 10:49 AM
> >>> To: EMC developers 
> >>> Subject: Re: [Emc-developers] EtherCAT - would not be a prob with free
> >> membership in EtherCAT Technology Group Re: LinuxCNC is in Debian!
> >>> On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 at 15:14, Steffen Möller 
> >> wrote:
>  But he took the freedom to point out that there are others who
>  are already shipping EtherCAT drivers and have not experienced any
> legal
>  problem at all - he just cannot make any promises of any sorts about
> the
>  future
> >>> There is quite a gap between "we don't plan to turn evil" and "we
> >>> promise not to turn evil"
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> atp
> >>> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> >>> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> >>> lunatics."
> >>> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ___
> >>> Emc-developers mailing list
> >>> Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net
> >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers
> >>>
> >>> ___
> >>> Emc-developers mailing list
> >>> Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net
> >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers
> >>
> >> ___
> >> Emc-developers mailing list
> >> Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net
> >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers
> >>
> > ___
> > Emc-developers mailing list
> > Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers
>
>
> 

Re: [Emc-developers] EtherCAT - would not be a prob with free membership in EtherCAT Technology Group Re: LinuxCNC is in Debian!

[Rod Webster]

>  Anyone close to ROS?
Tormach. Anyone close to Tormach?

Rod Webster
*1300 896 832*
+61 435 765 611
Vehicle Modifications Network
www.vehiclemods.net.au


On Fri, 4 Mar 2022 at 11:07, Steffen Möller  wrote:

> Rod,
>
> I wish some of our LinuxCNC Gurus would know some of the ROS Gurus and
> jointly meditate over this. We should possibly not discuss this too much
> as a sole CNC/robotics problem. This tech is useful whenever you need to
> synchronize something between multiple machines/devices.
>
> I truly don't know what we should be doing as a community. Anyone close
> to ROS?
>
> Best,
> Steffen
>
>
> On 03.03.22 20:55, Rod Webster wrote:
> > Steffen
> >
> > You have done some amazing work and we now know what we are dealing with
> > rather than just guessing as we've done before.
> >
> > I think its not about the last 20 years but about the next 20. I think we
> > will see an increasing number of ethercat capable devices in use as more
> > vendors adopt the technology.
> > There are also an increasing number of linuxcnc users using the software
> on
> > commercial projects and retrofits of commercial machines.
> >
> > ROS appear to be simply embedding the SOEM in a sub folder in their
> > ethercat master wrapper based on an article they link to in the readme. I
> > guess they can do this under  the GPL.
> >
> > Any restrictions appear to be placed on users of the technology, not the
> > software developer. Linuxcnc does not use software, our members do. This
> is
> > an important distinction.
> > I think this allows Linuxcnc to treat the proposed driver as being GPL'd
> at
> > a distribution level like ROS has.
> >
> > Now we know of the SOEM's existence, it would be preferable to use it
> over
> > the IgH ethercat master if it's compatible with our architecture. It's a
> > much tighter integration then.
> >
> > It's clear that membership is not required. I can't see any impediment to
> > building a separate repository like has been done with mesaflash that
> > embeds the SOEM like ROS has done. If the rules change, it will be simple
> > to excise the orphaned child or just remove the SOEM subfolder.
> >
> >
> > Rod Webster
> > *1300 896 832*
> > +61 435 765 611
> > Vehicle Modifications Network
> > www.vehiclemods.net.au
> >
> >
> > On Fri, 4 Mar 2022 at 02:22, Steffen Möller 
> wrote:
> >
> >> Hi Marc,
> >>
> >> yes, something like http://wiki.ros.org/soem ? I have not followed that
> >> up.
> >>
> >> Best,
> >> Steffen
> >>
> >> On 03.03.22 16:54, Marc Wang wrote:
> >>> Hi Steffen,
> >>>
> >>> By ROS, are you referring to Robotic Operating System (
> >> https://www.ros.org/)?
> >>>
> >>> Regards,
> >>> Marc
> >>>
> >>> 
> >>> From: andy pugh 
> >>> Sent: Thursday, March 3, 2022 10:49 AM
> >>> To: EMC developers 
> >>> Subject: Re: [Emc-developers] EtherCAT - would not be a prob with free
> >> membership in EtherCAT Technology Group Re: LinuxCNC is in Debian!
> >>> On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 at 15:14, Steffen Möller 
> >> wrote:
>  But he took the freedom to point out that there are others who
>  are already shipping EtherCAT drivers and have not experienced any
> legal
>  problem at all - he just cannot make any promises of any sorts about
> the
>  future
> >>> There is quite a gap between "we don't plan to turn evil" and "we
> >>> promise not to turn evil"
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> atp
> >>> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> >>> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> >>> lunatics."
> >>> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ___
> >>> Emc-developers mailing list
> >>> Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net
> >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers
> >>>
> >>> ___
> >>> Emc-developers mailing list
> >>> Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net
> >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers
> >>
> >> ___
> >> Emc-developers mailing list
> >> Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net
> >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers
> >>
> > ___
> > Emc-developers mailing list
> > Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers
>
>
> ___
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Re: [Emc-developers] EtherCAT - would not be a prob with free membership in EtherCAT Technology Group Re: LinuxCNC is in Debian!

[Steffen Möller]

Rod,

I wish some of our LinuxCNC Gurus would know some of the ROS Gurus and
jointly meditate over this. We should possibly not discuss this too much
as a sole CNC/robotics problem. This tech is useful whenever you need to
synchronize something between multiple machines/devices.

I truly don't know what we should be doing as a community. Anyone close
to ROS?

Best,
Steffen


On 03.03.22 20:55, Rod Webster wrote:

Steffen

You have done some amazing work and we now know what we are dealing with
rather than just guessing as we've done before.

I think its not about the last 20 years but about the next 20. I think we
will see an increasing number of ethercat capable devices in use as more
vendors adopt the technology.
There are also an increasing number of linuxcnc users using the software on
commercial projects and retrofits of commercial machines.

ROS appear to be simply embedding the SOEM in a sub folder in their
ethercat master wrapper based on an article they link to in the readme. I
guess they can do this under  the GPL.

Any restrictions appear to be placed on users of the technology, not the
software developer. Linuxcnc does not use software, our members do. This is
an important distinction.
I think this allows Linuxcnc to treat the proposed driver as being GPL'd at
a distribution level like ROS has.

Now we know of the SOEM's existence, it would be preferable to use it over
the IgH ethercat master if it's compatible with our architecture. It's a
much tighter integration then.

It's clear that membership is not required. I can't see any impediment to
building a separate repository like has been done with mesaflash that
embeds the SOEM like ROS has done. If the rules change, it will be simple
to excise the orphaned child or just remove the SOEM subfolder.


Rod Webster
*1300 896 832*
+61 435 765 611
Vehicle Modifications Network
www.vehiclemods.net.au


On Fri, 4 Mar 2022 at 02:22, Steffen Möller  wrote:


Hi Marc,

yes, something like http://wiki.ros.org/soem ? I have not followed that
up.

Best,
Steffen

On 03.03.22 16:54, Marc Wang wrote:

Hi Steffen,

By ROS, are you referring to Robotic Operating System (

https://www.ros.org/)?


Regards,
Marc


From: andy pugh 
Sent: Thursday, March 3, 2022 10:49 AM
To: EMC developers 
Subject: Re: [Emc-developers] EtherCAT - would not be a prob with free

membership in EtherCAT Technology Group Re: LinuxCNC is in Debian!

On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 at 15:14, Steffen Möller 

wrote:

But he took the freedom to point out that there are others who
are already shipping EtherCAT drivers and have not experienced any legal
problem at all - he just cannot make any promises of any sorts about the
future

There is quite a gap between "we don't plan to turn evil" and "we
promise not to turn evil"

--
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-developers] EtherCAT - would not be a prob with free membership in EtherCAT Technology Group Re: LinuxCNC is in Debian!

[Rod Webster]

>Some of us remember when the EMC corporation sent their lawyers
>calling because we had a similar name to them. No matter that we had
>it first.

Before my time.
There are plenty of examples where the user of an untrademarked name has
had to cease and desist after another organization trademarks a word
already in use.
Even to the extent of an Australian  Winemaker called Chardon being taken
to task by Moet and Chandon to name a small local example.
Or Aussie made Ugg Boots losing the name to  a US trademark... which was
the blatant hijacking of a product.

That's why I hold a trademark of my brand.

This is quite different as we are not purporting to be Ethercat or
trading as Ethercat. We are just talking about licensing where credit has
to be given. Its not even close to the EMC example.


Rod Webster
*1300 896 832*
+61 435 765 611
Vehicle Modifications Network
www.vehiclemods.net.au


On Fri, 4 Mar 2022 at 10:37, andy pugh  wrote:

> On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 at 16:17, gene heskett  wrote:
>
> > I don't see the future risk as zero...
>
> Some of us remember when the EMC corporation sent their lawyers
> calling because we had a similar name to them. No matter that we had
> it first.
>
> Beckhof have been very clear that they own the word EtherCAT, we
> wouldn't even have the same wiggle room we had last time (and last
> time we were in the right and still stood little chance)
>
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
>
>
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Re: [Emc-developers] EtherCAT - would not be a prob with free membership in EtherCAT Technology Group Re: LinuxCNC is in Debian!

[andy pugh]

On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 at 16:17, gene heskett  wrote:

> I don't see the future risk as zero...

Some of us remember when the EMC corporation sent their lawyers
calling because we had a similar name to them. No matter that we had
it first.

Beckhof have been very clear that they own the word EtherCAT, we
wouldn't even have the same wiggle room we had last time (and last
time we were in the right and still stood little chance)

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-developers] EtherCAT - would not be a prob with free membership in EtherCAT Technology Group Re: LinuxCNC is in Debian!

[Jérémie Tarot]

Le jeu. 3 mars 2022 à 16:14, Steffen Möller  a
écrit :

> Dear all,
>
> I had a phone conversation with the EtherCAT Technology Group's
> president, Martin Rostan, this morning.


Thanks a lot for taking care of this 


ETG's statutes (Satzung in German) do not allow non-legal entities to
> become members. Bummer.
>

Well, not that astonishing when you think about it.


I propose that we look into what ROS has come up with.


Let's hope they have infos to clarify this a bit...


Otherwise, I do

not know what this means for us, except to take care not to mix the
> EtherCAT codebase with the regular LinuxCNC.


Generally speaking, I think this should be the standard way of doing things
if we have to ship "foreign" code by ourselves.
Whether to put our glue in our main repository or in a separate one like
ROS...


To avoid paperwork that
> would not make much practical difference for anyone, we were discouraged
> to register a newly formed society that could be a member. But there may
> be other sorts of motivation to have something that can hold money for
> LinuxCNC. User meetings come to mind, and then this organization could
> also become a member as a side-event.
>

I'd fully support such an decision, like I support the just born FreeCAD
organization!

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Re: [Emc-developers] EtherCAT - would not be a prob with free membership in EtherCAT Technology Group Re: LinuxCNC is in Debian!

[Rod Webster]

Steffen

You have done some amazing work and we now know what we are dealing with
rather than just guessing as we've done before.

I think its not about the last 20 years but about the next 20. I think we
will see an increasing number of ethercat capable devices in use as more
vendors adopt the technology.
There are also an increasing number of linuxcnc users using the software on
commercial projects and retrofits of commercial machines.

ROS appear to be simply embedding the SOEM in a sub folder in their
ethercat master wrapper based on an article they link to in the readme. I
guess they can do this under  the GPL.

Any restrictions appear to be placed on users of the technology, not the
software developer. Linuxcnc does not use software, our members do. This is
an important distinction.
I think this allows Linuxcnc to treat the proposed driver as being GPL'd at
a distribution level like ROS has.

Now we know of the SOEM's existence, it would be preferable to use it over
the IgH ethercat master if it's compatible with our architecture. It's a
much tighter integration then.

It's clear that membership is not required. I can't see any impediment to
building a separate repository like has been done with mesaflash that
embeds the SOEM like ROS has done. If the rules change, it will be simple
to excise the orphaned child or just remove the SOEM subfolder.


Rod Webster
*1300 896 832*
+61 435 765 611
Vehicle Modifications Network
www.vehiclemods.net.au


On Fri, 4 Mar 2022 at 02:22, Steffen Möller  wrote:

> Hi Marc,
>
> yes, something like http://wiki.ros.org/soem ? I have not followed that
> up.
>
> Best,
> Steffen
>
> On 03.03.22 16:54, Marc Wang wrote:
> > Hi Steffen,
> >
> > By ROS, are you referring to Robotic Operating System (
> https://www.ros.org/)?
> >
> >
> > Regards,
> > Marc
> >
> > 
> > From: andy pugh 
> > Sent: Thursday, March 3, 2022 10:49 AM
> > To: EMC developers 
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-developers] EtherCAT - would not be a prob with free
> membership in EtherCAT Technology Group Re: LinuxCNC is in Debian!
> >
> > On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 at 15:14, Steffen Möller 
> wrote:
> >
> >> But he took the freedom to point out that there are others who
> >> are already shipping EtherCAT drivers and have not experienced any legal
> >> problem at all - he just cannot make any promises of any sorts about the
> >> future
> > There is quite a gap between "we don't plan to turn evil" and "we
> > promise not to turn evil"
> >
> > --
> > atp
> > "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> > designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> > lunatics."
> > — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
> >
> >
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Re: [Emc-developers] EtherCAT - would not be a prob with free membership in EtherCAT Technology Group Re: LinuxCNC is in Debian!

[Steffen Möller]

Hi Marc,

yes, something like http://wiki.ros.org/soem ? I have not followed that up.

Best,
Steffen

On 03.03.22 16:54, Marc Wang wrote:

Hi Steffen,

By ROS, are you referring to Robotic Operating System (https://www.ros.org/)?


Regards,
Marc


From: andy pugh 
Sent: Thursday, March 3, 2022 10:49 AM
To: EMC developers 
Subject: Re: [Emc-developers] EtherCAT - would not be a prob with free 
membership in EtherCAT Technology Group Re: LinuxCNC is in Debian!

On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 at 15:14, Steffen Möller  wrote:


But he took the freedom to point out that there are others who
are already shipping EtherCAT drivers and have not experienced any legal
problem at all - he just cannot make any promises of any sorts about the
future

There is quite a gap between "we don't plan to turn evil" and "we
promise not to turn evil"

--
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-developers] EtherCAT - would not be a prob with free membership in EtherCAT Technology Group Re: LinuxCNC is in Debian!

[gene heskett]

On Thursday, 3 March 2022 10:49:53 EST andy pugh wrote:
> On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 at 15:14, Steffen Möller  
wrote:
> > But he took the freedom to point out that there are others who
> > are already shipping EtherCAT drivers and have not experienced any
> > legal problem at all - he just cannot make any promises of any sorts
> > about the future
> 
> There is quite a gap between "we don't plan to turn evil" and "we
> promise not to turn evil"

Indeed Andy. At this point, we've done well w/o it for what, 20 years 
now?

I don't see the future risk as zero... Their restriction on gpl2, renders 
it null and void. Be wary, very wary.

Cheers, Gene Heskett.
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 





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Re: [Emc-developers] EtherCAT - would not be a prob with free membership in EtherCAT Technology Group Re: LinuxCNC is in Debian!

[Marc Wang]

Hi Steffen,

By ROS, are you referring to Robotic Operating System (https://www.ros.org/)?


Regards,
Marc


From: andy pugh 
Sent: Thursday, March 3, 2022 10:49 AM
To: EMC developers 
Subject: Re: [Emc-developers] EtherCAT - would not be a prob with free 
membership in EtherCAT Technology Group Re: LinuxCNC is in Debian!

On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 at 15:14, Steffen Möller  wrote:

> But he took the freedom to point out that there are others who
> are already shipping EtherCAT drivers and have not experienced any legal
> problem at all - he just cannot make any promises of any sorts about the
> future

There is quite a gap between "we don't plan to turn evil" and "we
promise not to turn evil"

--
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-developers] EtherCAT - would not be a prob with free membership in EtherCAT Technology Group Re: LinuxCNC is in Debian!

[andy pugh]

On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 at 15:14, Steffen Möller  wrote:

> But he took the freedom to point out that there are others who
> are already shipping EtherCAT drivers and have not experienced any legal
> problem at all - he just cannot make any promises of any sorts about the
> future

There is quite a gap between "we don't plan to turn evil" and "we
promise not to turn evil"

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-developers] EtherCAT - would not be a prob with free membership in EtherCAT Technology Group Re: LinuxCNC is in Debian!

[Steffen Möller]

Dear all,

I had a phone conversation with the EtherCAT Technology Group's
president, Martin Rostan, this morning. To get an impression, you find
him in this PodCast https://www.sps-magazin.de/podcasts/ (German). Mr
Rostan sends his regards, expresses that he has a heart for all the
mills and lathes in private cellars out there and for the enthusiasts
behind them. However, the initial information I received was wrong. The
ETG's statutes (Satzung in German) do not allow non-legal entities to
become members. Bummer.

Mr Rostan refrained from giving us any legal advise. That would be their
lawyers. But he took the freedom to point out that there are others who
are already shipping EtherCAT drivers and have not experienced any legal
problem at all - he just cannot make any promises of any sorts about the
future, say if their company is bought. Most notably there is ROS and
the idea is that we could learn from them. He knows that the important
bit is that
https://github.com/OpenEtherCATsociety/SOEM/blob/master/LICENSE is
redistributed with the package. This effectively means that users they
become aware of are requested to get that free membership and that does
not change if LinuxCNC is a member or not.

I propose that we look into what ROS has come up with. Otherwise, I do
not know what this means for us, except to take care not to mix the
EtherCAT codebase with the regular LinuxCNC. To avoid paperwork that
would not make much practical difference for anyone, we were discouraged
to register a newly formed society that could be a member. But there may
be other sorts of motivation to have something that can hold money for
LinuxCNC. User meetings come to mind, and then this organization could
also become a member as a side-event.

What now?
Steffen




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Re: [Emc-developers] EtherCAT - would not be a prob with free membership in EtherCAT Technology Group Re: LinuxCNC is in Debian!

[Nicklas SB Karlsson]

Den 2022-03-02 kl. 20:56, skrev Nicklas SB Karlsson:

Den 2022-03-01 kl. 22:06, skrev Jérémie Tarot:

Le mar. 1 mars 2022 à 21:40, Bari  a écrit :



https://github.com/OpenEtherCATsociety/SOEM/blob/master/LICENSE



I don't understand how the last sentences could be compatible with GPL?


lhH EtherCat https://etherlab.org/en/ethercat/ I think is licensend 
under GPLv2 license. Master is implemented as kernel module and 
drivers are included in source code. Guess it should not be to hard to 
re implement to run as a real time thread and rename to Freecat.


in lgH there is some local changes to the original drivers I guess 
come kernel, not sure why. I had some problem SOEM with more than 
three Ethercat devices, message never arrived back in the ring, adding 
a router and it did, not sure if might have something to do with this.


Guess it is against answer myself. Anyway I found.

Checking again it is possible to turn off building of Kernel modules in 
lgH so guess it should be rather simple to get into Linuxcnc. Normally 
an .esi file if I remember postfix correct is used then configuring file 
and ideally it should be possible to configure by using these files and 
add .hal pins. Bought Chinese IO modules, 16 bits in and 16 bits but for 
these are I more or less hardcoded position in Ethercat datagram.



Nicklas Karlsson



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Re: [Emc-developers] EtherCAT - would not be a prob with free membership in EtherCAT Technology Group Re: LinuxCNC is in Debian!

[Nicklas SB Karlsson]

Den 2022-03-01 kl. 22:06, skrev Jérémie Tarot:

Le mar. 1 mars 2022 à 21:40, Bari  a écrit :



https://github.com/OpenEtherCATsociety/SOEM/blob/master/LICENSE



I don't understand how the last sentences could be compatible with GPL?


lhH EtherCat https://etherlab.org/en/ethercat/ I think is licensend 
under GPLv2 license. Master is implemented as kernel module and drivers 
are included in source code. Guess it should not be to hard to re 
implement to run as a real time thread and rename to Freecat.


in lgH there is some local changes to the original drivers I guess come 
kernel, not sure why. I had some problem SOEM with more than three 
Ethercat devices, message never arrived back in the ring, adding a 
router and it did, not sure if might have something to do with this.



Nicklas Karlsson



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Re: [Emc-developers] EtherCAT - would not be a prob with free membership in EtherCAT Technology Group Re: LinuxCNC is in Debian!

[Nicklas SB Karlsson]

Den 2022-03-01 kl. 23:35, skrev Rod Webster:

The reason why I put this on the agenda is that I observed that the debian
project uncovered a number of licenses which we had to include in our
copyright statement that deviated from the standard GPL licence. I was
quite surprised at this. I would defer to Steffen on license issues and
compatibility.

For now I think we should make contact and make those assessments later.

I propose to write requesting membership of the ETG with the following
contacts
Myself - admin contact
Lead Developer - Nicklas
Steffan - Licensing and the Debian Project.


It is OK for me.


Nicklas Karlsson



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Re: [Emc-developers] EtherCAT - would not be a prob with free membership in EtherCAT Technology Group Re: LinuxCNC is in Debian!

[Steffen Möller]

On 01.03.22 23:35, Rod Webster wrote:

The reason why I put this on the agenda is that I observed that the debian
project uncovered a number of licenses which we had to include in our
copyright statement that deviated from the standard GPL licence. I was
quite surprised at this. I would defer to Steffen on license issues and
compatibility.

For now I think we should make contact and make those assessments later.

I propose to write requesting membership of the ETG with the following
contacts
Myself - admin contact
Lead Developer - Nicklas
Steffan - Licensing and the Debian Project.

Please let me know if that sounds OK.


It is very nice of yours to consider me but I do not think I am needed
and Debian has this rule that anything good happening to the Open Source
world must not be bound to be Debian-specific, I would hence not want to
stress Debian too much / single it out. What may be good is to have
someone EtherCAT-savvy from Germany as a helper should whatever
communication problem arise or to open some backchannel to lure them
into sponsoring our devs with some hardware.

Someone "from here" please contact Ron. Should nobody surface then
please add me as "someone local in case this is helpful". I'll PM you
contact details.

Best,
Steffen




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Re: [Emc-developers] EtherCAT - would not be a prob with free membership in EtherCAT Technology Group Re: LinuxCNC is in Debian!

[gene heskett]

On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 4:20:42 PM EST Nicklas SB Karlsson wrote:
> Den 2022-03-01 kl. 21:39, skrev Bari:
> > On 3/1/22 14:25, Nicklas SB Karlsson wrote:
> >> Den 2022-03-01 kl. 21:17, skrev Bari:
> >>> On 3/1/22 13:20, Nicklas SB Karlsson wrote:
>  Already have a simple implementation of an Ethercat driver with
>  hardcoded configuration but read something about the license
>  problem and have kept it for myself.
> >>> 
> >>> If you developed this yourself without being under an NDA or some
> >>> contract with Beckhoff aren't you free to distribute this under any
> >>> license that you choose?
> >> 
> >> Used SOEM but added some code, no NDA.
> > 
> > https://github.com/OpenEtherCATsociety/SOEM/blob/master/LICENSE
> 
> Line below seems like a problem.
> 
> 
> You can use SOEM for the sole purpose of creating, using and/or selling
> or otherwise distributing an EtherCAT network master provided that an
> EtherCAT Master License is obtained from Beckhoff Automation GmbH.
> 
I think the key word here might be "master" but check with the legal dept 
for sure.  Sounds like clients, written in a truely clean room might be 
ok. But using SOEM for advice probably isn't "clean room".

Cheers, Gene Heskett.
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 





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Re: [Emc-developers] EtherCAT - would not be a prob with free membership in EtherCAT Technology Group Re: LinuxCNC is in Debian!

[Rod Webster]

The reason why I put this on the agenda is that I observed that the debian
project uncovered a number of licenses which we had to include in our
copyright statement that deviated from the standard GPL licence. I was
quite surprised at this. I would defer to Steffen on license issues and
compatibility.

For now I think we should make contact and make those assessments later.

I propose to write requesting membership of the ETG with the following
contacts
Myself - admin contact
Lead Developer - Nicklas
Steffan - Licensing and the Debian Project.

Please let me know if that sounds OK.

Rod Webster
*1300 896 832*
+61 435 765 611
Vehicle Modifications Network
www.vehiclemods.net.au


On Wed, 2 Mar 2022 at 07:48, Jérémie Tarot  wrote:

> Le mar. 1 mars 2022 à 22:22, Nicklas SB Karlsson  a écrit :
>
> >
> > >
> > > https://github.com/OpenEtherCATsociety/SOEM/blob/master/LICENSE
> >
> >
> > Line below seems like a problem.
> >
>
>
> Exactly
>
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Re: [Emc-developers] EtherCAT - would not be a prob with free membership in EtherCAT Technology Group Re: LinuxCNC is in Debian!

[Jérémie Tarot]

Le mar. 1 mars 2022 à 22:22, Nicklas SB Karlsson  a écrit :

>
> >
> > https://github.com/OpenEtherCATsociety/SOEM/blob/master/LICENSE
>
>
> Line below seems like a problem.
>


Exactly

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Re: [Emc-developers] EtherCAT - would not be a prob with free membership in EtherCAT Technology Group Re: LinuxCNC is in Debian!

[Nicklas SB Karlsson]

Den 2022-03-01 kl. 21:39, skrev Bari:


On 3/1/22 14:25, Nicklas SB Karlsson wrote:

Den 2022-03-01 kl. 21:17, skrev Bari:

On 3/1/22 13:20, Nicklas SB Karlsson wrote:
Already have a simple implementation of an Ethercat driver with 
hardcoded configuration but read something about the license 
problem and have kept it for myself. 



If you developed this yourself without being under an NDA or some 
contract with Beckhoff aren't you free to distribute this under any 
license that you choose?
Used SOEM but added some code, no NDA. 



https://github.com/OpenEtherCATsociety/SOEM/blob/master/LICENSE



Line below seems like a problem.


You can use SOEM for the sole purpose of creating, using and/or selling 
or otherwise distributing an EtherCAT network master provided that an 
EtherCAT Master License is obtained from Beckhoff Automation GmbH.



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Re: [Emc-developers] EtherCAT - would not be a prob with free membership in EtherCAT Technology Group Re: LinuxCNC is in Debian!

[Jérémie Tarot]

Le mar. 1 mars 2022 à 21:40, Bari  a écrit :

>
>
> https://github.com/OpenEtherCATsociety/SOEM/blob/master/LICENSE



I don't understand how the last sentences could be compatible with GPL?


>

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Re: [Emc-developers] EtherCAT - would not be a prob with free membership in EtherCAT Technology Group Re: LinuxCNC is in Debian!

[Bari]

On 3/1/22 14:25, Nicklas SB Karlsson wrote:

Den 2022-03-01 kl. 21:17, skrev Bari:

On 3/1/22 13:20, Nicklas SB Karlsson wrote:
Already have a simple implementation of an Ethercat driver with 
hardcoded configuration but read something about the license problem 
and have kept it for myself. 



If you developed this yourself without being under an NDA or some 
contract with Beckhoff aren't you free to distribute this under any 
license that you choose?
Used SOEM but added some code, no NDA. 



https://github.com/OpenEtherCATsociety/SOEM/blob/master/LICENSE



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Re: [Emc-developers] EtherCAT - would not be a prob with free membership in EtherCAT Technology Group Re: LinuxCNC is in Debian!

[Nicklas SB Karlsson]

Den 2022-03-01 kl. 21:17, skrev Bari:

On 3/1/22 13:20, Nicklas SB Karlsson wrote:
Already have a simple implementation of an Ethercat driver with 
hardcoded configuration but read something about the license problem 
and have kept it for myself. 



If you developed this yourself without being under an NDA or some 
contract with Beckhoff aren't you free to distribute this under any 
license that you choose?

Used SOEM but added some code, no NDA.



You don't have to use their term for the driver if it is trademarked. 
Call it something else such as FreeCAT.

Renaming is simple, will do that.



The FSF has lots of resources available. Run the Beckhoff license past 
them for an opinion on conflicts with GPL.



Are there any patents involved in a Linux driver for EtherCAT?


Not sure about the driver, master use ordinary Ethernet but nodes have 
special hardware, guess is it work similar to a shift register as values 
are read/written while datagram pass thru. Pretty sure patent is about 
the nodes.



Real time perfomance is excellent and there are plenty of devices 
available to chose from on the market, Beckhoff have many.



Nickas Karlsson



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Re: [Emc-developers] EtherCAT - would not be a prob with free membership in EtherCAT Technology Group Re: LinuxCNC is in Debian!

[Bari]

On 3/1/22 13:20, Nicklas SB Karlsson wrote:
Already have a simple implementation of an Ethercat driver with 
hardcoded configuration but read something about the license problem 
and have kept it for myself. 



If you developed this yourself without being under an NDA or some 
contract with Beckhoff aren't you free to distribute this under any 
license that you choose?



You don't have to use their term for the driver if it is trademarked. 
Call it something else such as FreeCAT.



The FSF has lots of resources available. Run the Beckhoff license past 
them for an opinion on conflicts with GPL.



Are there any patents involved in a Linux driver for EtherCAT?



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Re: [Emc-developers] EtherCAT - would not be a prob with free membership in EtherCAT Technology Group Re: LinuxCNC is in Debian!

[Steffen Möller]

On 01.03.22 20:15, Nicklas SB Karlsson wrote:

Den 2022-03-01 kl. 13:27, skrev Rod Webster:

So I shared Steffen's post on the Ethercat section of the forum
calling for
technical volunteers. Maybe some of them are in this group already.
https://forum.linuxcnc.org/ethercat/45239-lets-get-ethercat-into-the-linuxcnc-distribution-need-technical-people-to-help



I have to volunteer. Also have knowledge about CANopen which is useful
since many devices use this "protocol" over ethercat.


Great!

I'll leave it to Rod to assemble the
EtherCAT-Technology-Group-contact-front-for-LinuxCNC .

@Rod, I suggest you collect the contact details from the volunteers per
PM and finish the letter that I started or prepare a better one. As I
mentioned in my reply to Andy, we still need to learn about how to leave
that group if their conditions change so I suggest to clarify that
upfront, too. For instance, should they find LinuxCNC in violation with
anything (like proving technically incompetent, whatever) and they
cancel our membership then it is important for us that any action of
ours can only be performed "ex nunc" (from that moment on). We cannot
"undistribute" anything, which would be "ex tunc"? Gosh.

Many thanks to all!

Steffen



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Re: [Emc-developers] EtherCAT - would not be a prob with free membership in EtherCAT Technology Group Re: LinuxCNC is in Debian!

[Nicklas SB Karlsson]

Den 2022-02-28 kl. 15:47, skrev Steffen Möller:

Hello again,

On 28.02.22 14:28, andy pugh wrote:
On Mon, 28 Feb 2022 at 13:22, Steffen Möller  
wrote:


Personally I know nothing about EtherCAT. I have always been a little
afraid of the licensing complexities mentioned here:

https://etherlab.org/en/ethercat/

Etherlab itself is GPLv2, but _using_ it seems to bring a different
licensing restriction into play. And I don't know enough about
licensing to know if that's a problem.


I called them up - first the Beckhoff group (they have nice stuff on 
https://www.beckhoff.com/en-gb/) and from there I was pointed to the 
EtherCAT Technology Group (https://www.ethercat.org/de/contact.html), 
so I called them, too. Without that membership we would be in said 
uncharacterized unmitigated license trouble


Already have a simple implementation of an Ethercat driver with 
hardcoded configuration but read something about the license problem and 
have kept it for myself.



  that Andy referenced but with that membership they would be very 
sweet to us. From what I understand, they try to be good people and 
just in case someone messes something up they do not want to guess how 
to reach out. So we are asked to become a member of the EtherCAT 
Technology Group (ETG) - for which we would identify someone who would 
serve as a communicator between them and our community and write a 
"3-line email" with our request to integrate an EtherCAT driver that 
is available at some URL with LinuxCNC as described on 
https://linuxcnc.org.


I do not see that Debian would become a member of their Technology 
Group. And it would not make too much sense to me to have any extra 
outreach from Debian to that ETG, but we can ask for an OK to have 
that distribution channel and also ask for Fedora at the same time.


Now - big question: Is there an agreement that it would be beneficial 
for LinuxCNC to become a member of the ETG? It is free. And there 
likely a series of perks for training material that may not be of our 
immediate concern. They invited me to help with that initial contact 
but that LinuxCNC-representative to them could then be anyone we pick. 
Andy? Rod? You both? Jeff? All three of yours?

I could volunteer.


Nicklas SB Karlsson


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Re: [Emc-developers] EtherCAT - would not be a prob with free membership in EtherCAT Technology Group Re: LinuxCNC is in Debian!

[Nicklas SB Karlsson]

Den 2022-03-01 kl. 13:27, skrev Rod Webster:

So I shared Steffen's post on the Ethercat section of the forum calling for
technical volunteers. Maybe some of them are in this group already.
https://forum.linuxcnc.org/ethercat/45239-lets-get-ethercat-into-the-linuxcnc-distribution-need-technical-people-to-help


I have to volunteer. Also have knowledge about CANopen which is useful 
since many devices use this "protocol" over ethercat.



Nicklas SB Karlsson



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Re: [Emc-developers] EtherCAT - would not be a prob with free membership in EtherCAT Technology Group Re: LinuxCNC is in Debian!

[Rod Webster]

So I shared Steffen's post on the Ethercat section of the forum calling for
technical volunteers. Maybe some of them are in this group already.
https://forum.linuxcnc.org/ethercat/45239-lets-get-ethercat-into-the-linuxcnc-distribution-need-technical-people-to-help

Lets hope the right people come forward.

Rod Webster
*1300 896 832*
+61 435 765 611
Vehicle Modifications Network
www.vehiclemods.net.au


On Tue, 1 Mar 2022 at 07:44, Rod Webster  wrote:

> One could argue we are already in breach of their license by mentioning
> Ethercat in our Debian package :)
> There is no point suggesting something without being willing to contribute.
> Therefore I am happy to be an admin contact using the email
> ether...@vmn.com.au
> There are others who are more competent than I with the technical stuff.
>
> Sascha Ittner and Dominik Braun whose work on github I referenced spring
> to mind
> Also Arvid Brodin who is in this group knows a bit I think but is working
> on trajectory planning
> Michel Winja (Grotius) is also very knowledgeable
>
> I will see if I can attract their attention.
>
> Rod Webster
> *1300 896 832*
> +61 435 765 611
> Vehicle Modifications Network
> www.vehiclemods.net.au
>
>
> On Tue, 1 Mar 2022 at 00:48, Steffen Möller 
> wrote:
>
>> Hello again,
>>
>> On 28.02.22 14:28, andy pugh wrote:
>> > On Mon, 28 Feb 2022 at 13:22, Steffen Möller 
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > Personally I know nothing about EtherCAT. I have always been a little
>> > afraid of the licensing complexities mentioned here:
>> >
>> > https://etherlab.org/en/ethercat/
>> >
>> > Etherlab itself is GPLv2, but _using_ it seems to bring a different
>> > licensing restriction into play. And I don't know enough about
>> > licensing to know if that's a problem.
>>
>> I called them up - first the Beckhoff group (they have nice stuff on
>> https://www.beckhoff.com/en-gb/) and from there I was pointed to the
>> EtherCAT Technology Group (https://www.ethercat.org/de/contact.html), so
>> I called them, too. Without that membership we would be in said
>> uncharacterized unmitigated license trouble  that Andy referenced but with
>> that membership they would be very sweet to us. From what I understand,
>> they try to be good people and just in case someone messes something up
>> they do not want to guess how to reach out. So we are asked to become a
>> member of the EtherCAT Technology Group (ETG) - for which we would identify
>> someone who would serve as a communicator between them and our community
>> and write a "3-line email" with our request to integrate an EtherCAT driver
>> that is available at some URL with LinuxCNC as described on
>> https://linuxcnc.org.
>>
>> I do not see that Debian would become a member of their Technology Group.
>> And it would not make too much sense to me to have any extra outreach from
>> Debian to that ETG, but we can ask for an OK to have that distribution
>> channel and also ask for Fedora at the same time.
>>
>> Now - big question: Is there an agreement that it would be beneficial for
>> LinuxCNC to become a member of the ETG? It is free. And there likely a
>> series of perks for training material that may not be of our immediate
>> concern. They invited me to help with that initial contact but that
>> LinuxCNC-representative to them could then be anyone we pick. Andy? Rod?
>> You both? Jeff? All three of yours?
>>
>> Best,
>> Steffen
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>> Emc-developers mailing list
>> Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers
>>
>

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Re: [Emc-developers] EtherCAT - would not be a prob with free membership in EtherCAT Technology Group Re: LinuxCNC is in Debian!

[Rod Webster]

One could argue we are already in breach of their license by mentioning
Ethercat in our Debian package :)
There is no point suggesting something without being willing to contribute.
Therefore I am happy to be an admin contact using the email
ether...@vmn.com.au
There are others who are more competent than I with the technical stuff.

Sascha Ittner and Dominik Braun whose work on github I referenced spring to
mind
Also Arvid Brodin who is in this group knows a bit I think but is working
on trajectory planning
Michel Winja (Grotius) is also very knowledgeable

I will see if I can attract their attention.

Rod Webster
*1300 896 832*
+61 435 765 611
Vehicle Modifications Network
www.vehiclemods.net.au


On Tue, 1 Mar 2022 at 00:48, Steffen Möller  wrote:

> Hello again,
>
> On 28.02.22 14:28, andy pugh wrote:
> > On Mon, 28 Feb 2022 at 13:22, Steffen Möller 
> wrote:
> >
> > Personally I know nothing about EtherCAT. I have always been a little
> > afraid of the licensing complexities mentioned here:
> >
> > https://etherlab.org/en/ethercat/
> >
> > Etherlab itself is GPLv2, but _using_ it seems to bring a different
> > licensing restriction into play. And I don't know enough about
> > licensing to know if that's a problem.
>
> I called them up - first the Beckhoff group (they have nice stuff on
> https://www.beckhoff.com/en-gb/) and from there I was pointed to the
> EtherCAT Technology Group (https://www.ethercat.org/de/contact.html), so
> I called them, too. Without that membership we would be in said
> uncharacterized unmitigated license trouble  that Andy referenced but with
> that membership they would be very sweet to us. From what I understand,
> they try to be good people and just in case someone messes something up
> they do not want to guess how to reach out. So we are asked to become a
> member of the EtherCAT Technology Group (ETG) - for which we would identify
> someone who would serve as a communicator between them and our community
> and write a "3-line email" with our request to integrate an EtherCAT driver
> that is available at some URL with LinuxCNC as described on
> https://linuxcnc.org.
>
> I do not see that Debian would become a member of their Technology Group.
> And it would not make too much sense to me to have any extra outreach from
> Debian to that ETG, but we can ask for an OK to have that distribution
> channel and also ask for Fedora at the same time.
>
> Now - big question: Is there an agreement that it would be beneficial for
> LinuxCNC to become a member of the ETG? It is free. And there likely a
> series of perks for training material that may not be of our immediate
> concern. They invited me to help with that initial contact but that
> LinuxCNC-representative to them could then be anyone we pick. Andy? Rod?
> You both? Jeff? All three of yours?
>
> Best,
> Steffen
>
>
>
> ___
> Emc-developers mailing list
> Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers
>

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[Emc-developers] EtherCAT - would not be a prob with free membership in EtherCAT Technology Group Re: LinuxCNC is in Debian!

[Steffen Möller]

Hello again,

On 28.02.22 14:28, andy pugh wrote:

On Mon, 28 Feb 2022 at 13:22, Steffen Möller  wrote:

Personally I know nothing about EtherCAT. I have always been a little
afraid of the licensing complexities mentioned here:

https://etherlab.org/en/ethercat/

Etherlab itself is GPLv2, but _using_ it seems to bring a different
licensing restriction into play. And I don't know enough about
licensing to know if that's a problem.


I called them up - first the Beckhoff group (they have nice stuff on 
https://www.beckhoff.com/en-gb/) and from there I was pointed to the EtherCAT Technology 
Group (https://www.ethercat.org/de/contact.html), so I called them, too. Without that 
membership we would be in said uncharacterized unmitigated license trouble  that Andy 
referenced but with that membership they would be very sweet to us. From what I 
understand, they try to be good people and just in case someone messes something up they 
do not want to guess how to reach out. So we are asked to become a member of the EtherCAT 
Technology Group (ETG) - for which we would identify someone who would serve as a 
communicator between them and our community and write a "3-line email" with our 
request to integrate an EtherCAT driver that is available at some URL with LinuxCNC as 
described on https://linuxcnc.org.

I do not see that Debian would become a member of their Technology Group. And 
it would not make too much sense to me to have any extra outreach from Debian 
to that ETG, but we can ask for an OK to have that distribution channel and 
also ask for Fedora at the same time.

Now - big question: Is there an agreement that it would be beneficial for 
LinuxCNC to become a member of the ETG? It is free. And there likely a series 
of perks for training material that may not be of our immediate concern. They 
invited me to help with that initial contact but that LinuxCNC-representative 
to them could then be anyone we pick. Andy? Rod? You both? Jeff? All three of 
yours?

Best,
Steffen



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