Re: [Emc-users] converting Monarch 10EE
On Monday 29 April 2013 01:59:23 Cecil Thomas did opine: I recently was given a 1953 Monarch 10EE basic Model lathe. It is the Ward Leonard motor generator type so no electronics to deal with. The basic model has no lead screw and no gearing for screw cutting. There is also no taper attachment. It does have carriage and cross slide power feeds. I have installed a rotary phase converter and have the lathe powered up and it is completely functional. The lack of thread cutting begs for the lathe to be converted to CNC. I have successfully converted a 7x10 and a jet 9 x 20 and am comfortable with the project. My only real concern is going to be integrating spindle speed control because the existing control utilizes two huge rheostats to control the drive motor field and the generator field. I might just lash up a servo or stepper with a belt to the control knob. The (lack of) speed of response in all that mechanical doings might make that less than successful. But I am not familiar with the Ward Leonard motor generator either. It sounds as if its a 3 phase AC motor turning a DC generator which in turn powers a DC motor that actually drives the spindle? For those DC controls, I'd think it would be a lot more power efficient to toss the rheostats in favor of pwm controlled hexfet power devices that linuxcnc can control directly by using opto-isolation techniques which would give 10 to 1000 times faster control, with perhaps 1/100th (or less) of the power losses the rheostats will have, directly from a quadrature sensing disk and opto-interrupter detection of not just spindle speed, but spindle position in real time as it rotates. Just throwing out alternate, more efficient faster control ideas. My $0.02 IOW. The general idea is that of having a PWM signal from linuxcnc turn the power on fully for a period of time dependent on a comparison of the set speed with the real speed, and turning it off and shorting the winding so the current continues to flow, but will decay until its not enough. Do this 1,000 times or more a second and you can have an extremely rigid speed control because if the encoder feedback says its 3 degrees behind where its supposed to be, it will hit it harder until that position error is effectively nulled out. Real time control adjustment at every encoder transition. I only have a 50 slot disk on my 7x12, no room for any more so I get a fresh error reading 200 times a revolution, but I also have a PWM to 0-10 volt converter in the path which slows the control, a lot. But I can start it at 200 rpm, wrap a leather belt around a 5 chuck and blow a fuse before there is a detectable by ear speed change. Has anyone converted a 10EE to CNC? Cecil Cheers, Gene -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) My web page: http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene is up! My views http://www.armchairpatriot.com/What%20Has%20America%20Become.shtml I don't want a pickle, I just wanna ride on my motorsickle. And I don't want to die, I just want to ride on my motorcy. Cle. -- Arlo Guthrie A pen in the hand of this president is far more dangerous than 200 million guns in the hands of law-abiding citizens. -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Hostmot2-PDM frequency
There seems to be some misunderstanding regarding the PDM frequency for a 7i33. The Integrators manual, V2.5, p140 states that the frequency is in Hz. The 7i33 manual recommends 6 MHz. Pncconf gives a message that a PDM frequency of 6000 is required and puts that into the HAL file. Should it not be 6x10^6? Rudy -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone LinuxCNC starterkit: ready-to-run SD card image
--- On Sun, 4/28/13, Peter C. Wallace p...@mesanet.com wrote: I dont think the case for servo systems is very good without some additional hardware. The BBB has just three possible hardware encoder counters. Software encoder counters could be done by the PRU but they would not be comparable to hardware encoder counters in performance (hardware can do MHz count rates and more importantly multi MHZ oversampling for digital filtering). Also you lose one hardware encoder if you use the on card flash memory and one more if you use video. What about the network port? Don't use the video and use network for control. Could you multiplex encoder data to make two work like four, albeit at a slower rate? -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] warning on the Beaglebone LinuxCNC starterkit :-/
--- On Sun, 4/28/13, Michael Haberler mai...@mah.priv.at wrote: ad 1): Kent was the first to try and confirmed the BBB does NOT boot this image; however, it doesnt boot the BBW Angstrom card supplied with the BBW either, so we're in good company and I am pretty sure this is a trivial issue to resolve once I can get my hands on a BBB. Not a good thing for a new product launch to ship it with software that doesn't actually work. Anyone seen Dilbert... ;) -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] converting Monarch 10EE
On 29 April 2013 06:33, Cecil Thomas wctho...@chartertn.net wrote: My only real concern is going to be integrating spindle speed control because the existing control utilizes two huge rheostats to control the drive motor field and the generator field. I might just lash up a servo or stepper with a belt to the control knob. In your position I would be strongly tempted to remove the whole Ward Leonard setup, probably offering it to someone wanting to repair their lathe. You seem to have a single phase supply spinning a 3-phase idler motor spinning a second three phase motor spinning a generator spinning a DC motor. The Ward-Leonard arrangement is fairly elaborate in itself, but running it from a rotary phase converter is just excessive. I suggest that you might want to consider a single phase motor driving a generator to electrolyse water to run a hydrogen-powered fuel cell to create the DC supply. (Hmm, my attempt to think up the most ludicrous-possible arrangement has actually come up with a _simpler_ system!) It has to make more sense to couple a 3-phase motor and single-phase-input VFD directly to the spindle? -- atp If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] ABB Robots in Sweden
A chap contacted me about my Arduino boards for resolvers. He has a pair of ABB robots he got for a steal. He is talking in terms of breaking for parts (specifically the harmonic drives). I think that the robots have DC motors + Resolvers. The original drives apparently work, but not the rest of the system. Rather than see them dismantled for parts (though I would actually be rather tempted by the harmonic drives myself :-) I offered to ask here if anyone would be interested. I _think_ this would be an easy Mesa 7i49 conversion. -- atp If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Mesa Board Configuration
From: Andrew Sent: Sunday, April 28, 2013 11:55 AM To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Mesa Board Configuration 2013/4/28 RogerN re...@wildblue.net I’m preparing for a conversion of a mill that has servos and encoders. It currently has 3 axis but I want to add spindle control. In the future I’d like to be able to add a rotary axis... What I’d like is a configuration to allow 8 servos plus some I/O for limit and home switches. The configurations I saw listed seemed to have 4 servos + I/O or more servos without I/O. Any recommendations for best solution, 8 encoders, 8 PWM out plus I/O. In case you don't (and you actually don't) need 8 axes, MESA 5i25 + 7i76 is a perfect fit with 6 servo axes + 48 I/O. If you still insist on 8 axes it will be more complicated and much more expensive: 5i22(or 5i23) + 7I65 (or 2x7i33) + 7i37 or other breakout board. Andrew Six axis sounds great to me, I just didn't want to use up all 4 axis using the spindle and then not have a rotary option in the future. I didn't see this combination listed on the documentation I have, mine's probably a bit dated. RogerN -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Mesa Board Configuration
On 29 April 2013 11:51, RogerN re...@wildblue.net wrote: Six axis sounds great to me, I just didn't want to use up all 4 axis using the spindle and then not have a rotary option in the future. 5i25 + 7i77 can easily be expanded with a second 7i77 for another 6 axes anyway. -- atp If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] warning on the Beaglebone LinuxCNC starterkit :-/
On 4/29/2013 5:11 AM, Gregg Eshelman wrote: --- On Sun, 4/28/13, Michael Haberler mai...@mah.priv.at wrote: ad 1): Kent was the first to try and confirmed the BBB does NOT boot this image; however, it doesnt boot the BBW Angstrom card supplied with the BBW either, so we're in good company and I am pretty sure this is a trivial issue to resolve once I can get my hands on a BBB. Not a good thing for a new product launch to ship it with software that doesn't actually work. Anyone seen Dilbert... ;) Gregg: I adore Dilbert. Of course, I always thought I was Dilbert; my staff always thought I was his clueless manager. Be that as it may, please pay attention to the nomenclature. The image Michael created for the BBW (original Beaglebone aka Beaglebone White) doesn't boot on my BBB (Beaglebone Black). Given the substantial hardware differences between the two boards, this was not a surprise, just a disappointment. Like Michael, I believe it will turn out to be a trivial issue involving the boot code. Once fixed, I expect we will have an image that boots on both old and new cards. At worst, we'll have to have one image for each. In the meantime, the new product launch proceeds. Anyone with an original Beaglebone can give it a ride today. Regards, Kent -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] warning on the Beaglebone LinuxCNC starterkit :-/
Greg - Am 29.04.2013 um 11:11 schrieb Gregg Eshelman g_ala...@yahoo.com: --- On Sun, 4/28/13, Michael Haberler mai...@mah.priv.at wrote: ad 1): Kent was the first to try and confirmed the BBB does NOT boot this image; however, it doesnt boot the BBW Angstrom card supplied with the BBW either, so we're in good company and I am pretty sure this is a trivial issue to resolve once I can get my hands on a BBB. Not a good thing for a new product launch to ship it with software that doesn't actually work. I think you're reading something here which isnt there. I did _not_ say the BBB doesnt work with the Angstrom SD card as delivered. I said 'it doesnt work with the BBW image'. Since the BBB has some differences to the BBW, among them 2GB flash on-board, that wasnt entirely unlikely to happen. Anyone seen Dilbert... ;) -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] warning on the Beaglebone LinuxCNC starterkit :-/
On 4/29/2013 7:35 AM, Michael Haberler wrote: Greg - Am 29.04.2013 um 11:11 schrieb Gregg Eshelman g_ala...@yahoo.com: --- On Sun, 4/28/13, Michael Haberler mai...@mah.priv.at wrote: ad 1): Kent was the first to try and confirmed the BBB does NOT boot this image; however, it doesnt boot the BBW Angstrom card supplied with the BBW either, so we're in good company and I am pretty sure this is a trivial issue to resolve once I can get my hands on a BBB. Not a good thing for a new product launch to ship it with software that doesn't actually work. I think you're reading something here which isnt there. I did _not_ say the BBB doesnt work with the Angstrom SD card as delivered. I said 'it doesnt work with the BBW image'. Since the BBB has some differences to the BBW, among them 2GB flash on-board, that wasnt entirely unlikely to happen. Indeed, there is no uSD card in the Beaglebone Black box; the onboard flash memory contains an Angstrom image, and the boot code is set up for it by default. I can accept this cost-cutting measure. It's harder for me to accept that the uSD socket is very vulnerable to accidental electrical shorts when no card is inserted. If you're a messy desktop experimenter like me you'll want to protect the exposed opening of the socket by mounting the board, contriving a cover, or somesuch. From the standpoint of marketing hype, a more interesting cost-cutting measure is the use of a microHDMI connector. Add at least US$10 to the cost of the board if you want to bring out video. Locally, microHDMI-to-HDMI cables cost at least US$30. Don't have any in my junkbox so Im running headless (which should come as no surprise to some of you). Regards, Kent -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Hostmot2-PDM frequency
On Mon, 29 Apr 2013, Rudy du Preez wrote: Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2013 09:17:40 +0200 From: Rudy du Preez r...@asmsa.co.za Reply-To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Hostmot2-PDM frequency There seems to be some misunderstanding regarding the PDM frequency for a 7i33. The Integrators manual, V2.5, p140 states that the frequency is in Hz. The 7i33 manual recommends 6 MHz. Pncconf gives a message that a PDM frequency of 6000 is required and puts that into the HAL file. Should it not be 6x10^6? Rudy Its definately supposed to be 600 Hz so this is a pncconf bug (Is this the latest pncconf?) Peter Wallace Mesa Electronics (\__/) (='.'=) This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your ()_() signature to help him gain world domination. -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] warning on the Beaglebone LinuxCNC starterkit :-/
Micro HDMI - no sweat ... Micro HDMI to HDMI for $5.00 on Amazon.. The brick and mortar stores around me also attempt robbery when it comes to cables :-) http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_sc_3_9/182-5664315-3225654?url=search-alias%3Dapsfield-keywords=micro%20hdmi%20to%20hdmi%20adaptersprefix=microhdmi%2Caps%2C310 No need to run headless! Dave On 4/29/2013 7:57 AM, Kent A. Reed wrote: On 4/29/2013 7:35 AM, Michael Haberler wrote: Greg - Am 29.04.2013 um 11:11 schrieb Gregg Eshelmang_ala...@yahoo.com: --- On Sun, 4/28/13, Michael Haberlermai...@mah.priv.at wrote: ad 1): Kent was the first to try and confirmed the BBB does NOT boot this image; however, it doesnt boot the BBW Angstrom card supplied with the BBW either, so we're in good company and I am pretty sure this is a trivial issue to resolve once I can get my hands on a BBB. Not a good thing for a new product launch to ship it with software that doesn't actually work. I think you're reading something here which isnt there. I did _not_ say the BBB doesnt work with the Angstrom SD card as delivered. I said 'it doesnt work with the BBW image'. Since the BBB has some differences to the BBW, among them 2GB flash on-board, that wasnt entirely unlikely to happen. Indeed, there is no uSD card in the Beaglebone Black box; the onboard flash memory contains an Angstrom image, and the boot code is set up for it by default. I can accept this cost-cutting measure. It's harder for me to accept that the uSD socket is very vulnerable to accidental electrical shorts when no card is inserted. If you're a messy desktop experimenter like me you'll want to protect the exposed opening of the socket by mounting the board, contriving a cover, or somesuch. From the standpoint of marketing hype, a more interesting cost-cutting measure is the use of a microHDMI connector. Add at least US$10 to the cost of the board if you want to bring out video. Locally, microHDMI-to-HDMI cables cost at least US$30. Don't have any in my junkbox so Im running headless (which should come as no surprise to some of you). Regards, Kent -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] warning on the Beaglebone LinuxCNC starterkit :-/
On 4/29/2013 1:18 AM, Michael Haberler wrote: as these things go.. I've learned hours after announcing the starterkit that: 1. this image will *not* boot on the Beaglebone Black 2. the 3.2.21/2.6 Xenomai patch used in the starterkit kernel does have a serious issue ad 1): Kent was the first to try and confirmed the BBB does NOT boot this image; however, it doesnt boot the BBW Angstrom card supplied with the BBW either, so we're in good company and I am pretty sure this is a trivial issue to resolve once I can get my hands on a BBB. ad 2) Gilles Chanteperdrix of the Xenomai project just informed me there is a potential memory corruption issue with mlock() in the Xenomai 2.6 patch for 3.2.21. While I have not seen fatal crashes of the starterkit configuration myself, or seen any reports, it would be unwise to ignore the issue. This issue will be resolved once the Xenomai patch for the 3.8 kernels is out and stable, which I think should be a low single-digit number of weeks. executive summary: - do not waste time trying to run the starterkit image on the BBB yet until I have a replacement known to work on the BBB - dont use the BBW/starterkit config for something critical _yet_. It is good enough for exploring configurations and performance though - on the BBW. sorry to be the party pooper, - Michael No problem! I don't even have any BBB boards yet. Michael, can you get your hands on a BBB? I don't know how they are distributing these boards. I will have an extra one in a week or so if they come through on their delivery. Dave -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] converting Monarch 10EE
On Mon, Apr 29, 2013, at 06:00 AM, andy pugh wrote: On 29 April 2013 06:33, Cecil Thomas wctho...@chartertn.net wrote: My only real concern is going to be integrating spindle speed control because the existing control utilizes two huge rheostats to control the drive motor field and the generator field. I might just lash up a servo or stepper with a belt to the control knob. In your position I would be strongly tempted to remove the whole Ward Leonard setup, probably offering it to someone wanting to repair their lathe. I'm not sure I would be so quick to discard the Ward Leonard setup (and I design electronic motor drives for a living!) The Ward Leonard setup is very rugged to overloads and other abuse, and probably provides a much better speed/torque curve over a wider range then you would get with a VFD and an AC motor. You seem to have a single phase supply spinning a 3-phase idler motor spinning a second three phase motor spinning a generator spinning a DC motor. The Ward-Leonard arrangement is fairly elaborate in itself, but running it from a rotary phase converter is just excessive. Agreed about the phase converter part. I'd be tempted to investigate spinning the generator with a single phase motor, or simply adding caps directly to the electrical box on the lathe so that the existing three phase constant speed AC motor will run (at reduced power) on single phase. It has to make more sense to couple a 3-phase motor and single-phase-input VFD directly to the spindle? Before you do that, carefully study the speed/torque capabilities of the new system and compare them to what the factory system can deliver. A 3HP AC motor driven by a VFD can deliver 3HP at the nominal speed of the motor ONLY. Below nominal speed (also known as base speed), the torque is constant, and the power thus drops off linearly. At half speed, you only get 1.5HP. At 1/4 speed, you get 3/4HP. Above base speed there is usually a modest constant power range, maybe 2:1, over which you can get roughly 3HP (typically the power drops off slowly even in that range). Above that range power drops off rapidly. And most AC motors are not designed to run above base speed at all. DC motors also have a base speed, and also deliver constant torque below base speed. But they can have a much wider constant power range above base speed. The engineers at Monarch almost certainly chose that DC motor to have a very wide constant power range, and the gear/pulley ratios were chosen so that the motor runs above base speed (in the constant power region) most of the time. Discarding the DC motor will almost certainly mean a significant performance penalty. Keeping the DC motor and driving it with either a DC drive, or the existing motor-generator set, will keep the performance. -- atp If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- John Kasunich jmkasun...@fastmail.fm -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] converting Monarch 10EE
On 29 April 2013 15:16, John Kasunich jmkasun...@fastmail.fm wrote: Discarding the DC motor will almost certainly mean a significant performance penalty. Keeping the DC motor and driving it with either a DC drive, or the existing motor-generator set, will keep the performance. Good point, I didn't think of that. There are a couple of 2hp DC drives on eBay for around the $200 mark. I didn't find any 3HP ones, though there are several Unidrive units on there, which can drive pretty much anything. -- atp If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] converting Monarch 10EE
We used a dc drive to run the rotor - then used the (IIRC) existing large adjustable resistor to drop the field as you increased the speed.. (from simple rectified dc).This is still a manual lathe. I think though it would be pretty easy to use 2 dc drives - one for the rotor and one for the field. (seems easy enough to control it from hal..) Yes - the dc motor has very nice low end torque.. sam On 4/29/2013 9:48 AM, andy pugh wrote: On 29 April 2013 15:16, John Kasunich jmkasun...@fastmail.fm wrote: Discarding the DC motor will almost certainly mean a significant performance penalty. Keeping the DC motor and driving it with either a DC drive, or the existing motor-generator set, will keep the performance. Good point, I didn't think of that. There are a couple of 2hp DC drives on eBay for around the $200 mark. I didn't find any 3HP ones, though there are several Unidrive units on there, which can drive pretty much anything. -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] warning on the Beaglebone LinuxCNC starterkit, :-/
Hi Kent, Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2013 07:57:47 -0400 From: Kent A. Reedkentallanr...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Emc-users] warning on the Beaglebone LinuxCNC starterkit :-/ To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net I can accept this cost-cutting measure. It's harder for me to accept that the uSD socket is very vulnerable to accidental electrical shorts when no card is inserted. If you're a messy desktop experimenter like me you'll want to protect the exposed opening of the socket by mounting the board, contriving a cover, or somesuch. I too have been known to worry about that happening on my bench - I use some laser cut plexiglass cases for my BBWs to prevent it. FYI - I found a case for the BBB here: https://specialcomp.com/beaglebone/ I ordered up a couple but they and my BBBs are still in transit. Dave -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone LinuxCNC starterkit: ready-to-run SD card image
On Mon, 29 Apr 2013, Gregg Eshelman wrote: Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2013 01:51:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Gregg Eshelman g_ala...@yahoo.com Reply-To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Emc-users] [utf-8] Beaglebone LinuxCNC starterkit: ready-to-run SD card image --- On Sun, 4/28/13, Peter C. Wallace p...@mesanet.com wrote: I dont think the case for servo systems is very good without some additional hardware. The BBB has just three possible hardware encoder counters. Software encoder counters could be done by the PRU but they would not be comparable to hardware encoder counters in performance (hardware can do MHz count rates and more importantly multi MHZ oversampling for digital filtering). Also you lose one hardware encoder if you use the on card flash memory and one more if you use video. What about the network port? Don't use the video and use network for control. Could you multiplex encoder data to make two work like four, albeit at a slower rate? You could multiplex encoder data using a PRU software encoder (If you ran out of pins) but this would 1/2 the software data capture rate. I dont think its possible to mux the hardware encoders. Encoder capture might also be possible with DMA, I havent looked into PRU DMA capabilities yet -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users Peter Wallace Mesa Electronics (\__/) (='.'=) This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your ()_() signature to help him gain world domination. -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] warning on the Beaglebone LinuxCNC starterkit :-/
Am 29.04.2013 um 15:33 schrieb Dave e...@dc9.tzo.com: On 4/29/2013 1:18 AM, Michael Haberler wrote: ... - do not waste time trying to run the starterkit image on the BBB yet until I have a replacement known to work on the BBB - dont use the BBW/starterkit config for something critical _yet_. It is good enough for exploring configurations and performance though - on the BBW. sorry to be the party pooper, - Michael No problem! I don't even have any BBB boards yet. Michael, can you get your hands on a BBB? I don't know how they are distributing these boards. I have one coming, but it might take a while but that doesnt matter; a fix for the booting issue is in the works and maybe we'll have a solution later today as soon as it is verified to work on the BBB - Michael I will have an extra one in a week or so if they come through on their delivery. Dave -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] converting Monarch 10EE
On 29 April 2013 16:04, sam sokolik sa...@empirescreen.com wrote: I think though it would be pretty easy to use 2 dc drives - one for the rotor and one for the field. (seems easy enough to control it from hal..) And the Mesa 7i29 has two channels... -- atp If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] warning on the Beaglebone LinuxCNC starterkit :-/
Michael Haberler wrote: as these things go.. I've learned hours after announcing the starterkit that: 1. this image will *not* boot on the Beaglebone Black 2. the 3.2.21/2.6 Xenomai patch used in the starterkit kernel does have a serious issue ad 1): Kent was the first to try and confirmed the BBB does NOT boot this image; however, it doesnt boot the BBW Angstrom card supplied with the BBW either, so we're in good company and I am pretty sure this is a trivial issue to resolve once I can get my hands on a BBB. This is well documented (I think) on the beagle board forum. As usual, Robert Nelson has some kernels that work on each, maybe his discussion of what is different will help you find what to do to make a kernel that loads. Jon -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] converting Monarch 10EE
Gene Heskett wrote: It sounds as if its a 3 phase AC motor turning a DC generator which in turn powers a DC motor that actually drives the spindle? Essentially right. For those DC controls, I'd think it would be a lot more power efficient to toss the rheostats in favor of pwm controlled hexfet power devices that linuxcnc can control directly by using opto-isolation techniques which would give 10 to 1000 times faster control, with perhaps 1/100th (or less) of the power losses the rheostats will have, directly from a quadrature sensing disk and opto-interrupter detection of not just spindle speed, but spindle position in real time as it rotates. Lathes don't really need to change speed on a dime. The spindle is not usually used as a positioning axis. The rheostats control generator field and motor field, and are not that large. For low-speed range they control the generator field, then for the high speed range they weaken the motor field. Jon -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] converting Monarch 10EE
andy pugh wrote: It has to make more sense to couple a 3-phase motor and single-phase-input VFD directly to the spindle? The motor is an odd frame, and also has MASSIVE torque at low speed. So, the 10EE has no back gear. It probably works MUCH better at low speed than a VFD and typical 3-phase motor. You could make an argument for a DC drive for the motor, but that could be a major project, and not a good one if you aren't an electrical engineer. Jon -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] converting Monarch 10EE
-Original Message- From: Jon Elson [mailto:el...@pico-systems.com] Sent: Monday, April 29, 2013 1:00 PM To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) Subject: Re: [Emc-users] converting Monarch 10EE andy pugh wrote: It has to make more sense to couple a 3-phase motor and single-phase-input VFD directly to the spindle? The motor is an odd frame, and also has MASSIVE torque at low speed. So, the 10EE has no back gear. It probably works MUCH better at low speed than a VFD and typical 3-phase motor. You could make an argument for a DC drive for the motor, but that could be a major project, and not a good one if you aren't an electrical engineer. Jon The 10EE does utilize a DC motor with impressive low speed torque, but it none-the-less does have a backgear. The gear assembly is on the end of the motor, not in the headstock. See this photo: http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/at tachments/f10/19126d1263689447-backgear-monarch-10-ee-3-hp-motor-back-gear.j pgimgrefurl=http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/monarch-lathes/backgear-19 6511/h=768w=1024sz=76tbnid=v8fc691q6yRUYM:tbnh=102tbnw=136prev=/searc h%3Fq%3Dmonarch%2B10ee%2Bback%2Bgear%26tbm%3Disch%26tbo%3Duzoom=1q=monarch +10ee+back+gearusg=__Zttj_U5_FmZ9wlMHQYqmIwTmtFA=docid=beP_ccGHfzktLMhl=e nsa=Xei=0q1-UaaxBonc2AXar4HoBAved=0CD0Q9QEwAQdur=5072 Sorry for the run-on URL, but I could not find a shorter one. Steve Stallings -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] converting Monarch 10EE
IIRC, Monarch threw all the silly stuff out and used AC motors + VFDs for the late 10EEs. Supposedly 7.5hp w/ backgear, 10hp w/o. Im sure a 5+hp ac system would beat the stuffings out of one of the orig monarch drive systems. CNC spindles do need to change speed rapidly for facing using CSS. Also, inverter drive induction motors can do 3:1+ constant hp range. Eventually the rotor inductance causes the speed^2 term to catch up but it can be way out there. A DC motor is a mechanically commutated AC machine. There is nothing performance-wise it can do better than an electrically commutated AC machine. Stephen On Mon, Apr 29, 2013 at 1:36 PM, Steve Stallings steve...@newsguy.comwrote: -Original Message- From: Jon Elson [mailto:el...@pico-systems.com] Sent: Monday, April 29, 2013 1:00 PM To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) Subject: Re: [Emc-users] converting Monarch 10EE andy pugh wrote: It has to make more sense to couple a 3-phase motor and single-phase-input VFD directly to the spindle? The motor is an odd frame, and also has MASSIVE torque at low speed. So, the 10EE has no back gear. It probably works MUCH better at low speed than a VFD and typical 3-phase motor. You could make an argument for a DC drive for the motor, but that could be a major project, and not a good one if you aren't an electrical engineer. Jon The 10EE does utilize a DC motor with impressive low speed torque, but it none-the-less does have a backgear. The gear assembly is on the end of the motor, not in the headstock. See this photo: http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/at tachments/f10/19126d1263689447-backgear-monarch-10-ee-3-hp-motor-back-gear.j pgimgrefurl=http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/monarch-lathes/backgear-19 6511/h=768w=1024sz=76tbnid=v8fc691q6yRUYM:tbnh=102tbnw=136prev=/searc h%3Fq%3Dmonarch%2B10ee%2Bback%2Bgear%26tbm%3Disch%26tbo%3Duzoom=1q=monarch +10ee+back+gearusg=__Zttj_U5_FmZ9wlMHQYqmIwTmtFA=docid=beP_ccGHfzktLMhl=e nsa=Xei=0q1-UaaxBonc2AXar4HoBAved=0CD0Q9QEwAQdur=5072 Sorry for the run-on URL, but I could not find a shorter one. Steve Stallings -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] warning on the Beaglebone LinuxCNC starterkit :-/
On 4/29/2013 9:28 AM, Dave wrote: Micro HDMI - no sweat ... Micro HDMI to HDMI for $5.00 on Amazon.. The brick and mortar stores around me also attempt robbery when it comes to cables :-) http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_sc_3_9/182-5664315-3225654?url=search-alias%3Dapsfield-keywords=micro%20hdmi%20to%20hdmi%20adaptersprefix=microhdmi%2Caps%2C310 No need to run headless! Dave Well, add in the hidden small-order shipping charges and the price approaches my earlier US$10 guestimate. From an industrial engineering standpoint, I prefer a microHDMI-to-HDMI cable because there's less of a lever sticking out of the microHDMI socket. These things become attractive nuisances---just right for ripping that delicate socket off the board (don't bother asking how I know such things can happen on a test bench!). As for cable prices, it seems obvious to me that the HDMI-cable vendors have studied the Monster Cable playbook for selling outrageously overpriced pieces of wire. Sprinkle fairy dust over your product laced with technical verbiage like high definition, phase shift, plug-n-play, and all the rest, and then sell to yuppie scum who already own outrageously overpriced handheld devices. Oh, wait, I've got some of those in my familyguess I'll go on a scavenger hunt. And I like running headless. So there :-) Regards, Kent -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] converting Monarch 10EE
On Mon, Apr 29, 2013, at 02:20 PM, Stephen Dubovsky wrote: Also, inverter drive induction motors can do 3:1+ constant hp range. Sure, you can get 3:1 constant power range from an AC motor, but only if you are using a motor that was designed and specified for that application. Typically has a lower base speed than a generic motor of that frame size, speed, and HP. But if you consider the motors that the average hobbyist can actually get their hands on, I think getting 3:1 is a long shot. Generic 1800 RPM AC motors are about 2:1 or maybe a bit more. I wouldn't be surprised if the Monarch 10EE drive-train can do 4:1 constant power. Eventually the rotor inductance causes the speed^2 term to catch up but it can be way out there. A DC motor is a mechanically commutated AC machine. There is nothing performance-wise it can do better than an electrically commutated AC machine. True, to a degree. But the specific DC motor in the Monarch was designed for a wide constant power range, and I'm sure the AC motor used in late model 10EE's was also designed specifically for the application. You aren't going to get that performance with a vanilla AC motor (or a vanilla DC motor, for that matter). -- John Kasunich jmkasun...@fastmail.fm -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone LinuxCNC starterkit: ready-to-run SD card image
On Sun, 28 Apr 2013 12:55:17 -0500 Jon Elson el...@pico-systems.com wrote: Is there a consensus about BeagleBone vs. Raspberry Pi? I feel the need to defend the Pi, Cubie, Olimex, et al boards, since it appears that no one else will :) Several areas of concern are worthy of our attention, which argue for a more circumspect outlook regarding the explosion of new ARM based systems that can potentially host linuxcnc: 1. In the case of the Pi, numbers matter I think. AFAIK, the Beagle Bone has two versions which have been produced; The BBW which was produced in a quantity of 60,000 (correct me if I'm wrong please), and the BBB which is being produced in a batch of 100,000 initially. Contrast this with the Pi, which has a total production of 1,000,000 (most are Model B, and I don't know how many of Model A). Also, AFAIK, none of the Allwinner A10/A20 boards has been produced in anything like these quantities AS A DEVELOPMENT BOARD. The Allwinner chips are however INCREDIBLY POPULAR in tablets and other applications. An Allwinner board like the Cubie, or even the Cubie itself, could become available in a week, month, or year, that creates as big a stir as the release of the BBB did a few days ago. Then, there's the iMX233 based stuff (far example https://www.olimex.com/Products/OLinuXino/iMX233/). This processor is very cheap, and available. It's not as super powerful as the others, but could play a useful role, perhaps as a network connected, smart peripheral controller. My point is: It's way too early in this situation to declare a winner. In fact, the linuxcnc future may involve solutions which employ more than one of these technologies. 2. The PRU is a TI specific thing. My best guess is that BBB solutions are going to lean on the PRU for all it's worth (which is a good thing). However, the PRU is not going to scale up as far as FPGA solutions will. For a real world example, the Smithy 1240 (early 2 phase motor models), used a stepper drive with 400kHz maximum step pulse frequency and normal operation of the machine at rapid speed used the whole 400kHz. The biggest configuration of this machine had (3) 400kHz axes, and one (rotary) at 200-250kHz. Additionally, there is a 720 line spindle encoder that has to work at up to 6000RPM (the A and B channels will max out at 72kHz). This example is far below the desirable maximum limits we should impose on potential linuxcnc users. 3. Cost: Pi=$25-$35, BBB=$45. Since the difference between production cost and retail sales price is usually a factor of 2-3x, this means a BBB solution will sell for at least $20, and as much as $60 more than a Pi based one, all other things being equal. Since both boards require at least one additional circuit board for isolation and level translation purposes, the $10-$20 difference in price between the two boards would just about cover the cost of adding an FPGA to the Pi's auxiliary PCB. A Pi+FPGA BBB+PRU assuming software support for both in linuxcnc. 4. If linuxcnc3 supports distributed processing, and network interconnection/cooperation, then these cheap little boards could be spread out in a cluster, which is much less practical with even small PCs. The small size, low cost, and low power requirements make this very attractive AND allows each different type of little board to be applied where it makes the most engineering and financial sense. This also argues for not narrowing our focus strictly to the BBB. 5. Most of this debate is moot, because the REAL FUTURE is (IMHO) going to be in these combo ARM+FPGA chips like the Xilinx Zynq and Altera Cyclone SoC devices. This type of device will likely render the existing boards we're looking at now obsolete within a few years. Any attempt to predict the future past about 5 years is probably futile. Having said all this, I did get a BBB in the mail yesterday, and I will now play with it... :) Thanks, Matt -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Black BeagleBoard: available at $45 (was LinuxCNC would be very nice on the UDOO board.)
Hi, Just wondering which BBB to choose: $42 or $44 https://specialcomp.com/beaglebone/ I have the USB cable, but is it a problem that eMMC Storage is blank instead of Angstrom Distribution? On the other hand, Restricted Use for Feasibility Evaluation Only vs. Intended for Commercial Use - aren't the boards exactly the same? Then $42 looks preferable, doesn't it? What else should I buy? Acrylic Case might be useful, Power Supply? Thanks, Andrew -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone LinuxCNC starterkit: ready-to-run SD card image
Gentlemen, Am 29.04.2013 um 20:16 schrieb Matt Shaver m...@mattshaver.com: On Sun, 28 Apr 2013 12:55:17 -0500 Jon Elson el...@pico-systems.com wrote: Is there a consensus about BeagleBone vs. Raspberry Pi? I feel the need to defend the Pi, Cubie, Olimex, et al boards, since it appears that no one else will :) let me say I wholeheartedly enjoy listening to your problems all of which were completely theoretical 5 months ago so they look like good to have to me;) -m -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] ABB Robots in Sweden
Oh yes, I would be interested in an old ABB robot for a reasonable price. I live within easy travel distace from ABB if the robots are there. A chap contacted me about my Arduino boards for resolvers. He has a pair of ABB robots he got for a steal. He is talking in terms of breaking for parts (specifically the harmonic drives). I think that the robots have DC motors + Resolvers. The original drives apparently work, but not the rest of the system. Rather than see them dismantled for parts (though I would actually be rather tempted by the harmonic drives myself :-) I offered to ask here if anyone would be interested. I _think_ this would be an easy Mesa 7i49 conversion. -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] converting Monarch 10EE
Thanks for all the inputs. I did quite a bit of research concerning the effectiveness vs the amount of work vs the expense of getting the machine on line and making chips. 1. Tossing the entire drive train and replacing with a 10 hp 3ph motor and vfd to run from 220 single phase.. can't be done... no 10 hp single phase vfd available at any price. 2. same as above but use 7.5 hp vfd with back gear same problem as above plus the backgear is PART OF the DC motor and requires considerable machining and adapting to take the end bell from the old motor and incorporate it into the new drive train. 3. Note that 1 and 2 are what Monarch does now for their new and rebuilt 10ee's they are NOT for single phase 220 use. 4. Drive the existing system from a single phase in 5 hp vfd.. I could not find a 5 hp single phase in vfd and even in the lower hp ranges I was looking at $400 and up for which I would be buying all kinds of bells and whistles which would be the proverbial mammary glands on a male swine since the 3 ph motor must run at 60 hz for the rest of the system to work correctly. Also I would be required to bypass any and all means of control from the lathe itself so as not to disconnect the vfd load downstream. 5. Replace the 3 ph motor with a 5 hp single phase motor.. Probably the neatest solution but the motor and generator are a single unit so the single phase motor would have to actually spin both the motor and generator IF... there was room enough to mount the extra motor and there's not. I even considered having the 3ph motor rewound as single phase but a couple of local motor shops said they were not even interested. 6. Toss the MG and install a DC control for the motor. Most integral hp DC controllers are rated 180 volts wide open he 10ee generator produces from 0 to 300 volts to the motor armature. It would be impossible to recreate that armature voltage from an off the shelf controller and problematic to get there with a home built one. The speeds above 1500 rpm are achieved by reducing field voltage (120 V DC on the field up to 1500 rpm) so that would not be a problem. 300 VDC from 220 VAC is a challenge. 7. Make the existing 3ph motor single phase by installing a static phase converter and giving up about 1/3 of the hp.. cheapest solution. 8. Buy a pretty prebuilt Rotary Phase Converter panel for $160 and add a locally purchased used 7.5 hp idler for $0 and with a couple of hours of running conduit and hanging the panel I'm in business. Cecil -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] converting Monarch 10EE
FWIW, Solution to #1 is typ easy. Large VFDs typ bring out the DC bus for more filtering caps if needed. Add additional external caps (need appox double whats internal) and add a large external rectifier to the caps. Basically, feed the VFD dc. You'll need to disable phase loss detection just like running any other 3ph vfd on 1ph. SMD On Mon, Apr 29, 2013 at 3:18 PM, Cecil Thomas wctho...@chartertn.netwrote: Thanks for all the inputs. I did quite a bit of research concerning the effectiveness vs the amount of work vs the expense of getting the machine on line and making chips. 1. Tossing the entire drive train and replacing with a 10 hp 3ph motor and vfd to run from 220 single phase.. can't be done... no 10 hp single phase vfd available at any price. 2. same as above but use 7.5 hp vfd with back gear same problem as above plus the backgear is PART OF the DC motor and requires considerable machining and adapting to take the end bell from the old motor and incorporate it into the new drive train. 3. Note that 1 and 2 are what Monarch does now for their new and rebuilt 10ee's they are NOT for single phase 220 use. 4. Drive the existing system from a single phase in 5 hp vfd.. I could not find a 5 hp single phase in vfd and even in the lower hp ranges I was looking at $400 and up for which I would be buying all kinds of bells and whistles which would be the proverbial mammary glands on a male swine since the 3 ph motor must run at 60 hz for the rest of the system to work correctly. Also I would be required to bypass any and all means of control from the lathe itself so as not to disconnect the vfd load downstream. 5. Replace the 3 ph motor with a 5 hp single phase motor.. Probably the neatest solution but the motor and generator are a single unit so the single phase motor would have to actually spin both the motor and generator IF... there was room enough to mount the extra motor and there's not. I even considered having the 3ph motor rewound as single phase but a couple of local motor shops said they were not even interested. 6. Toss the MG and install a DC control for the motor. Most integral hp DC controllers are rated 180 volts wide open he 10ee generator produces from 0 to 300 volts to the motor armature. It would be impossible to recreate that armature voltage from an off the shelf controller and problematic to get there with a home built one. The speeds above 1500 rpm are achieved by reducing field voltage (120 V DC on the field up to 1500 rpm) so that would not be a problem. 300 VDC from 220 VAC is a challenge. 7. Make the existing 3ph motor single phase by installing a static phase converter and giving up about 1/3 of the hp.. cheapest solution. 8. Buy a pretty prebuilt Rotary Phase Converter panel for $160 and add a locally purchased used 7.5 hp idler for $0 and with a couple of hours of running conduit and hanging the panel I'm in business. Cecil -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] converting Monarch 10EE
On 29 April 2013 20:18, Cecil Thomas wctho...@chartertn.net wrote: 300 VDC from 220 VAC is a challenge. Actually, 300VDC is pretty much exactly what you get by rectifying 220V AC. -- atp If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] converting Monarch 10EE
On Monday 29 April 2013 15:50:03 Jon Elson did opine: Gene Heskett wrote: It sounds as if its a 3 phase AC motor turning a DC generator which in turn powers a DC motor that actually drives the spindle? Essentially right. For those DC controls, I'd think it would be a lot more power efficient to toss the rheostats in favor of pwm controlled hexfet power devices that linuxcnc can control directly by using opto-isolation techniques which would give 10 to 1000 times faster control, with perhaps 1/100th (or less) of the power losses the rheostats will have, directly from a quadrature sensing disk and opto-interrupter detection of not just spindle speed, but spindle position in real time as it rotates. Lathes don't really need to change speed on a dime. True Jon. But when running a G76 cycle, you do need a stiff speed control because of the phase lag between the spindle and Z is time of rotation sensitive, as I found when I cranked up the spindle revs in the middle of cutting a thread. The thread moved lengthwise on the part and wrecked it. Minor detail, an inch of 1/2 cold roll wasted, so NBD. But it did surprise me until the lockup method was explained by one of you kind folks. That effect is exacerbated by my own tendency to use lower accels in favor of achieving higher rapids speeds. The spindle is not usually used as a positioning axis. The rheostats control generator field and motor field, and are not that large. For low-speed range they control the generator field, then for the high speed range they weaken the motor field. Jon Thanks for that explanation Jon. Now if I can get my wet ram to remember it. :( Cheers, Gene -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) My web page: http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene is up! My views http://www.armchairpatriot.com/What%20Has%20America%20Become.shtml I'm so miserable without you, it's almost like you're here. A pen in the hand of this president is far more dangerous than 200 million guns in the hands of law-abiding citizens. -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Mesa Board Configuration
The 7i77 is 6 analog out for servo control, I thought you wanted PWM out. - Original Message - From: Andrew Sent: Sunday, April 28, 2013 11:55 AM To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Mesa Board Configuration 2013/4/28 RogerN re...@wildblue.net I’m preparing for a conversion of a mill that has servos and encoders. It currently has 3 axis but I want to add spindle control. In the future I’d like to be able to add a rotary axis... What I’d like is a configuration to allow 8 servos plus some I/O for limit and home switches. The configurations I saw listed seemed to have 4 servos + I/O or more servos without I/O. Any recommendations for best solution, 8 encoders, 8 PWM out plus I/O. In case you don't (and you actually don't) need 8 axes, MESA 5i25 + 7i76 is a perfect fit with 6 servo axes + 48 I/O. If you still insist on 8 axes it will be more complicated and much more expensive: 5i22(or 5i23) + 7I65 (or 2x7i33) + 7i37 or other breakout board. Andrew Six axis sounds great to me, I just didn't want to use up all 4 axis using the spindle and then not have a rotary option in the future. I didn't see this combination listed on the documentation I have, mine's probably a bit dated. RogerN -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Todd Zuercher mailto:zuerc...@embarqmail.com -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Black BeagleBoard: available at $45 (was LinuxCNC would be very nice on the UDOO board.)
2013/4/29 Kent A. Reed kentallanr...@gmail.com How much is your time worth? If the eMMC storage is blank you'll need to download an image file, burn it to a microSD card, plug it in, and boot from it (the BBB Angstrom distribution automagically transfers itself to the eMMC storage; Robert Nelson provides a script one can use, or at least work from, to accomplish the same thing with other builds). It's your call: pay the man the $2 or do the time. My board is naked at the moment but, lord willing and the creek don't rise, I'll have it mounted on standoffs from some sort of plate by tonight as I've done for previous SoCs I've played with. Encasements will come later when I've decided how I'm going to be using them. You can power the BBB from the microUSB port but things may get dicey if you're going to hang power-sucking USB peripherals from the other port. I like to use a decent 5v power supply. (I have a collection left over from various defunct products). Thanks a lot! It's not about time, it's about fun! I suspected that transferring the boot image is no problem, just was not sure. Then $42 it is. And no power supply, I can find something in my inventory. Also, I hope to use remote desktop instead of monitor (when Ubuntu is installed). Andrew -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] converting Monarch 10EE
--- On Mon, 4/29/13, andy pugh bodge...@gmail.com wrote: The Ward-Leonard arrangement is fairly elaborate in itself, but running it from a rotary phase converter is just excessive. I'd take off the vintage Rube Goldberg (or Heath Robinson for thos on the other side of the globe) original setup and replace it with a single phase PWM driver and DC motor. kbelectronics.net has some with basic controls, just an on/off switch and a speed control knob with safety that requires the knob to be turned to zero before it'll start the motor after power has been off. An e-stop setup is up to the installer. The KBWT-26 list price is $168.00 (For 1HP motor) The KBWT-210 list price is $228.00 (For 2HP motor) Those are bare units, enclosure is up to the installer. They do have ones with enclosures and displays and more controls, also available in rack mount - all extra frippery not needed on a lathe. -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Mesa Board Configuration
When I converted my Anilam lathe to EMC2, I used the 5i20 + 7i33 + 7i37. If I understand correctly, the external boards convert the PWM signal from the 5i20 into a +/- 10V signal. I was thinking that the boards produced an analog output from a PWM signal, not an actual D-A converter. That's why I thought I needed PWM outputs, the drives themselves take +/- 10V. The output cards themselves output +/- 10V but I'm guessing the 5i25 doesn't output +/-10V, my guess it outputs 0-5V pwm. Sorry for the confusion, what I get from the output card isn't what I need from the interface cards, if it were I suspect I wouldn't need interface cards, just a breakout board. RogerN -Original Message- From: Todd Zuercher Sent: Monday, April 29, 2013 3:19 PM To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Mesa Board Configuration The 7i77 is 6 analog out for servo control, I thought you wanted PWM out. - Original Message - From: Andrew Sent: Sunday, April 28, 2013 11:55 AM To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Mesa Board Configuration 2013/4/28 RogerN re...@wildblue.net I’m preparing for a conversion of a mill that has servos and encoders. It currently has 3 axis but I want to add spindle control. In the future I’d like to be able to add a rotary axis... What I’d like is a configuration to allow 8 servos plus some I/O for limit and home switches. The configurations I saw listed seemed to have 4 servos + I/O or more servos without I/O. Any recommendations for best solution, 8 encoders, 8 PWM out plus I/O. In case you don't (and you actually don't) need 8 axes, MESA 5i25 + 7i76 is a perfect fit with 6 servo axes + 48 I/O. If you still insist on 8 axes it will be more complicated and much more expensive: 5i22(or 5i23) + 7I65 (or 2x7i33) + 7i37 or other breakout board. Andrew Six axis sounds great to me, I just didn't want to use up all 4 axis using the spindle and then not have a rotary option in the future. I didn't see this combination listed on the documentation I have, mine's probably a bit dated. RogerN -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Todd Zuercher mailto:zuerc...@embarqmail.com -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone LinuxCNC starterkit: ready-to-run SD card image
--- On Mon, 4/29/13, Peter C. Wallace p...@mesanet.com wrote: From: Gregg Eshelman g_ala...@yahoo.com What about the network port? Don't use the video and use network for control. Could you multiplex encoder data to make two work like four, albeit at a slower rate? You could multiplex encoder data using a PRU software encoder (If you ran out of pins) but this would 1/2 the software data capture rate. I dont think its possible to mux the hardware encoders. Encoder capture might also be possible with DMA, I havent looked into PRU DMA capabilities yet I was thinking along the lines of what Sony did with a single DAC in the first consumer model CD player. They ran it at least 2x as fast as needed to decode one channel then interleaved the bitstreams. No problem there, but they went even cheaper and didn't use a buffer and hold to re-sync the left and right channels, causing one to have a small lag. I guess they figured nobody would notice, probably didn't, but the golden ear types would claim they did once they knew the hardware details. -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Mesa Board Configuration
On Mon, 29 Apr 2013, RogerN wrote: Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2013 17:02:50 -0500 From: RogerN re...@wildblue.net Reply-To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Mesa Board Configuration When I converted my Anilam lathe to EMC2, I used the 5i20 + 7i33 + 7i37. If I understand correctly, the external boards convert the PWM signal from the 5i20 into a +/- 10V signal. I was thinking that the boards produced an analog output from a PWM signal, not an actual D-A converter. That's why I thought I needed PWM outputs, the drives themselves take +/- 10V. The output cards themselves output +/- 10V but I'm guessing the 5i25 doesn't output +/-10V, my guess it outputs 0-5V pwm. Sorry for the confusion, what I get from the output card isn't what I need from the interface cards, if it were I suspect I wouldn't need interface cards, just a breakout board. RogerN In the 7I77 case, the data on the pins is actually a serial data stream (Async serial at 2.5 MBaud) -Original Message- From: Todd Zuercher Sent: Monday, April 29, 2013 3:19 PM To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Mesa Board Configuration The 7i77 is 6 analog out for servo control, I thought you wanted PWM out. - Original Message - From: Andrew Sent: Sunday, April 28, 2013 11:55 AM To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Mesa Board Configuration 2013/4/28 RogerN re...@wildblue.net I??m preparing for a conversion of a mill that has servos and encoders. It currently has 3 axis but I want to add spindle control. In the future I??d like to be able to add a rotary axis... What I??d like is a configuration to allow 8 servos plus some I/O for limit and home switches. The configurations I saw listed seemed to have 4 servos + I/O or more servos without I/O. Any recommendations for best solution, 8 encoders, 8 PWM out plus I/O. In case you don't (and you actually don't) need 8 axes, MESA 5i25 + 7i76 is a perfect fit with 6 servo axes + 48 I/O. If you still insist on 8 axes it will be more complicated and much more expensive: 5i22(or 5i23) + 7I65 (or 2x7i33) + 7i37 or other breakout board. Andrew Six axis sounds great to me, I just didn't want to use up all 4 axis using the spindle and then not have a rotary option in the future. I didn't see this combination listed on the documentation I have, mine's probably a bit dated. RogerN -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Todd Zuercher mailto:zuerc...@embarqmail.com -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users Peter Wallace Mesa Electronics (\__/) (='.'=) This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your ()_() signature to help him gain world domination. -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt!
Re: [Emc-users] converting Monarch 10EE
--- On Mon, 4/29/13, Steve Stallings steve...@newsguy.com wrote: Sorry for the run-on URL, but I could not find a shorter one. Steve Stallings http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/attachments/f10/19126d1263689447-backgear-monarch-10-ee-3-hp-motor-back-gear.jpg -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] converting Monarch 10EE
--- On Mon, 4/29/13, Cecil Thomas wctho...@chartertn.net wrote: 5. Replace the 3 ph motor with a 5 hp single phase motor.. Probably the neatest solution but the motor and generator are a single unit so the single phase motor would have to actually spin both the motor and generator IF... there was room enough to mount the extra motor and there's not. Take a page from the people who gut old 1970's and 80's computers to install modern innards. Casemod the motor/generator. Gut the motor part and find the most powerful single phase motor you can find that'll fit inside. Of course there would be plenty of machining to do, also cutting the shaft and using a coupler if the motor and generator are on a single, solid shaft. What's available for brushless, permanent magnet DC motors, and is there a solid state, non-variable output power supply to match? I'd expect a BLDC sise to fit inside the gutted AC motor part of the case to be available at a higher HP rating than a similar sized AC motor with field windings. -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone LinuxCNC starterkit: ready-to-run SD card image
On 4/29/2013 1:16 PM, Matt Shaver wrote: On Sun, 28 Apr 2013 12:55:17 -0500 Jon Elson el...@pico-systems.com wrote: Is there a consensus about BeagleBone vs. Raspberry Pi? I feel the need to defend the Pi, Cubie, Olimex, et al boards, since it appears that no one else will :) Excellent points...I have a few comments of my own in-line: Several areas of concern are worthy of our attention, which argue for a more circumspect outlook regarding the explosion of new ARM based systems that can potentially host linuxcnc: 1. In the case of the Pi, numbers matter I think. I believe you're right about the numbers, and the Pi takes this hands down. That doesn't change the fact that any of these boards could disappear overnight, or be replaced by the next new thing at a moments notice. 2. The PRU is a TI specific thing. Yep...the PRU is a TI specific thing. That said, it's successful enough to be in it's second iteration across a family of several different ARM based SoCs. These parts are also aimed at the industrial market rather than the more fickle consumer market, and I suspect will have a longer life than the SoC at the heart of the Pi, or the Allwinner chip-of-the-day. 3. Cost: Pi=$25-$35, BBB=$45. I'm not personally concerned drastically about the cost. I liked the 'Bone more than the Pi for CNC before the price got cut in half. 4. If linuxcnc3 supports distributed processing, and network interconnection/cooperation, then these cheap little boards could be spread out in a cluster, which is much less practical with even small PCs. The small size, low cost, and low power requirements make this very attractive AND allows each different type of little board to be applied where it makes the most engineering and financial sense. This also argues for not narrowing our focus strictly to the BBB. I totally agree here...but the gory details need to be worked out first (see more below for #5). 5. Most of this debate is moot, because the REAL FUTURE is (IMHO) going to be in these combo ARM+FPGA chips like the Xilinx Zynq and Altera Cyclone SoC devices. This type of device will likely render the existing boards we're looking at now obsolete within a few years. Any attempt to predict the future past about 5 years is probably futile. I agree with this in spirit...IMHO the ARM + FPGA combination is going to simplify the current dizzying array of dedicated function ARM SoC parts into a more comprehensive ecosystem. But that's the future, not today. Today, what *I* am trying to get from LinuxCNC is a functional replacement for the typical Arduino based 3D printer controller. So what I need is: * LinuxCNC ported to something that runs on a board 'similar' to an Arduino (ie: small, low-power, and fairly inexpensive). In today's world that pretty much means an ARM board. Or maybe some Atom based tablet reference platform, but the ARM boards are easier to come by. * Hardware/software support for 5+ channels of step/dir generation at rates that exceed the current Arduino limits (I'm targeting at least 100 KHz step rate, ideally higher). * ADC support for 3+ thermistors * PWM generation for controlling the heaters (this is low-bandwidth, and can be done by just about anything). So...the Pi falls flat on ADC support and step/dir generation (have you checked the worst-case latency figures for ARM even with a Xenomai enhanced kernel? 50+ uS). The TI AM339x on the 'Bone has enhanced hardware timer support compared to the Pi, but the PRU is really what makes this SoC a great intermediate step between a plain vanilla ARM core and a full-on FPGA solution. I still think you need an FPGA if you're running with encoders and servos (except the 'Bone could _maybe_ drive a 3-axis servo system if you can use the hardware encoders built-in to the SoC, but I'd still prefer an FPGA). Given the Xilinx Zynq is apparently made of solid gold (based on their board and chip pricing), and the Altera SoC parts aren't quite real yet, the 'Bone looks like the best choice for a LinuxCNC ARM platform _TODAY_. But I wouldn't want to be too tightly coupled to *ANY* particular ARM chip/SoC solution...this environment is rapidly changing. As for the FPGA option...in addition to attending the Altera/Arrow SoCKIT seminar next month (where I'll be getting a Cyclone-V SoC evaluation board with ES silicon), I just found out I may be using the Altera FPGA + ARM SoC in an official work (ie: paid job) project. I really do see the FPGA + ARM SoC parts as the future, but there are a few steps to be traveled along the way... :) If you know of another existing board (ARM or otherwise) that can support at least five 100+ KHz step/dir channels and has 3+ ADC inputs (all without having to add external hardware), I'd *LOVE* to hear about it. I'm quite sure I am not aware of every low-cost dev/eval/hobby board available. Having said all this, I did get a BBB in the mail yesterday, and I will now play with it... :)
Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone LinuxCNC starterkit: ready-to-run SD card image
On Mon, 29 Apr 2013 21:05:41 +0200 Michael Haberler mai...@mah.priv.at wrote: Am 29.04.2013 um 20:16 schrieb Matt Shaver m...@mattshaver.com: On Sun, 28 Apr 2013 12:55:17 -0500 Jon Elson el...@pico-systems.com wrote: Is there a consensus about BeagleBone vs. Raspberry Pi? I feel the need to defend the Pi, Cubie, Olimex, et al boards, since it appears that no one else will :) let me say I wholeheartedly enjoy listening to your problems all of which were completely theoretical 5 months ago so they look like good to have to me;) It is a good time to be alive. Thanks, Matt -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] converting Monarch 10EE
On Monday 29 April 2013 20:12:27 Gregg Eshelman did opine: --- On Mon, 4/29/13, andy pugh bodge...@gmail.com wrote: The Ward-Leonard arrangement is fairly elaborate in itself, but running it from a rotary phase converter is just excessive. I'd take off the vintage Rube Goldberg (or Heath Robinson for thos on the other side of the globe) original setup and replace it with a single phase PWM driver and DC motor. kbelectronics.net has some with basic controls, just an on/off switch and a speed control knob with safety that requires the knob to be turned to zero before it'll start the motor after power has been off. An e-stop setup is up to the installer. The KBWT-26 list price is $168.00 (For 1HP motor) The KBWT-210 list price is $228.00 (For 2HP motor) Those are bare units, enclosure is up to the installer. They do have ones with enclosures and displays and more controls, also available in rack mount - all extra frippery not needed on a lathe. That is not a bad idea, but everyone is ignoring the 800lb gorilla, which is the cost of those larger PM field DC motors. The day of picking up a defunct treadmill, or a surplus motor from one, seem to now be in the distant past, with one that I saw on fleabay, clearly well abused, 6 months ago that still had 3 days to go and was above 200USD then. I'd love to do some sort of a bigger motor on my 7x12, but a 5 or 6 amp version of what I have now is north of $300, well north. Cheers, Gene -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) My web page: http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene is up! My views http://www.armchairpatriot.com/What%20Has%20America%20Become.shtml Coming together is a beginning; keeping together is progress; working together is success. A pen in the hand of this president is far more dangerous than 200 million guns in the hands of law-abiding citizens. -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] converting Monarch 10EE
Steve Stallings wrote: -Original Message- From: Jon Elson [mailto:el...@pico-systems.com] Sent: Monday, April 29, 2013 1:00 PM To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) Subject: Re: [Emc-users] converting Monarch 10EE andy pugh wrote: It has to make more sense to couple a 3-phase motor and single-phase-input VFD directly to the spindle? The motor is an odd frame, and also has MASSIVE torque at low speed. So, the 10EE has no back gear. It probably works MUCH better at low speed than a VFD and typical 3-phase motor. You could make an argument for a DC drive for the motor, but that could be a major project, and not a good one if you aren't an electrical engineer. Jon The 10EE does utilize a DC motor with impressive low speed torque, but it none-the-less does have a backgear. The gear assembly is on the end of the motor, not in the headstock. OK, I've never worked on one, but have discussed the drive (especially the thyratron version) with a bunch of people. I must have mis-remembered what they said. Jon -- Introducing AppDynamics Lite, a free troubleshooting tool for Java/.NET Get 100% visibility into your production application - at no cost. Code-level diagnostics for performance bottlenecks with 2% overhead Download for free and get started troubleshooting in minutes. http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_d2d_ap1 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] converting Monarch 10EE
On Mon, 2013-04-29 at 20:28 -0500, Jon Elson wrote: Steve Stallings wrote: -Original Message- From: Jon Elson [mailto:el...@pico-systems.com] Sent: Monday, April 29, 2013 1:00 PM To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) Subject: Re: [Emc-users] converting Monarch 10EE andy pugh wrote: It has to make more sense to couple a 3-phase motor and single-phase-input VFD directly to the spindle? The motor is an odd frame, and also has MASSIVE torque at low speed. So, the 10EE has no back gear. It probably works MUCH better at low speed than a VFD and typical 3-phase motor. You could make an argument for a DC drive for the motor, but that could be a major project, and not a good one if you aren't an electrical engineer. Jon The 10EE does utilize a DC motor with impressive low speed torque, but it none-the-less does have a backgear. The gear assembly is on the end of the motor, not in the headstock. OK, I've never worked on one, but have discussed the drive (especially the thyratron version) with a bunch of people. I must have mis-remembered what they said. Jon Good grief! I'd thought everyone had forgotten about thyratons. I have a motor that looks amazingly like the Monarch motor. 3hp, 4:1 motor and gear box painted green. Picked it up at Boeing surplus years ago. Nice and quiet, etc. Massive sort of thing. Dave -- Introducing AppDynamics Lite, a free troubleshooting tool for Java/.NET Get 100% visibility into your production application - at no cost. Code-level diagnostics for performance bottlenecks with 2% overhead Download for free and get started troubleshooting in minutes. http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_d2d_ap1 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Introducing AppDynamics Lite, a free troubleshooting tool for Java/.NET Get 100% visibility into your production application - at no cost. Code-level diagnostics for performance bottlenecks with 2% overhead Download for free and get started troubleshooting in minutes. http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_d2d_ap1 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] converting Monarch 10EE
gene did say The day of picking up a defunct treadmill, or a surplus motor from one, seem to now be in the distant past, with one that I saw on fleabay, clearly well abused, 6 months ago that still had 3 days to go and was above 200USD then my results from flea bay are different and 2 of my 3 machines run craigslist freebie motors and controllers ( until i scrape the coin for a mesa card and jons servo amp:) http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-5-HP-TREADMILL-MOTOR-complet-setup-with-controller-and-cables-/251265385921?pt=US_Cardio_Treadmillshash=item3a809585c1 ymmv :) On Mon, Apr 29, 2013 at 8:22 PM, Gene Heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com wrote: On Monday 29 April 2013 20:12:27 Gregg Eshelman did opine: --- On Mon, 4/29/13, andy pugh bodge...@gmail.com wrote: The Ward-Leonard arrangement is fairly elaborate in itself, but running it from a rotary phase converter is just excessive. I'd take off the vintage Rube Goldberg (or Heath Robinson for thos on the other side of the globe) original setup and replace it with a single phase PWM driver and DC motor. kbelectronics.net has some with basic controls, just an on/off switch and a speed control knob with safety that requires the knob to be turned to zero before it'll start the motor after power has been off. An e-stop setup is up to the installer. The KBWT-26 list price is $168.00 (For 1HP motor) The KBWT-210 list price is $228.00 (For 2HP motor) Those are bare units, enclosure is up to the installer. They do have ones with enclosures and displays and more controls, also available in rack mount - all extra frippery not needed on a lathe. That is not a bad idea, but everyone is ignoring the 800lb gorilla, which is the cost of those larger PM field DC motors. The day of picking up a defunct treadmill, or a surplus motor from one, seem to now be in the distant past, with one that I saw on fleabay, clearly well abused, 6 months ago that still had 3 days to go and was above 200USD then. I'd love to do some sort of a bigger motor on my 7x12, but a 5 or 6 amp version of what I have now is north of $300, well north. Cheers, Gene -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) My web page: http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene is up! My views http://www.armchairpatriot.com/What%20Has%20America%20Become.shtml Coming together is a beginning; keeping together is progress; working together is success. A pen in the hand of this president is far more dangerous than 200 million guns in the hands of law-abiding citizens. -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- jeremy youngs -- Introducing AppDynamics Lite, a free troubleshooting tool for Java/.NET Get 100% visibility into your production application - at no cost. Code-level diagnostics for performance bottlenecks with 2% overhead Download for free and get started troubleshooting in minutes. http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_d2d_ap1 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
