Re: [Flightgear-devel] turbine inlet temperature in the seneca (TIT)
Ok, I made a pretty gross hack for now, and used EGT but made the gauge show 100°F higher :-P On the other hand, since I am making a custom panel for the senecaII anyway, I could just make the gauges EGT for now, as they serve more or less the same purpose in engine management anyway. Torsten, you seem to be the maintainer for the SenecaII, would you be interested in including the gauges in the seneca at some point? Could make another nice fullscreen minipanel, since the small engine gauge cluster fits nicely in a monitor with the basic sixpack.. https://gitorious.org/fgfs-ftd-mik/mik-ftd/blobs/master/OH-TWN/Panels/screenshot.jpg If yes, how would we proceed? And if yes, should they go in Aircraft/Instruments/ or into the SenecaII folder? I could also do some textures for the Seneca instrument panel, if that is a welcome idea? I have some panel photos I took a while ago that could be useful there.. //Tuomas On 6 December 2011 22:37, Ron Jensen w...@jentronics.com wrote: On Tuesday 06 December 2011 07:39:48 Torsten Dreyer wrote: t. Ron Jensen is the master of the JSBSim piston engine code. IIRC he has the supercharger model on his backlog, maybe TIT will be part of his solution.. The current supercharger code is old, and strictly RPM based, and I don't have a good solution. The EGT calculations changed slightly in the last (2.5) release, and will change again (already in git) in the next release, so they may be more accurate to use as a base for TIT. As I understand it, TIT is exhaust gas temperature measured before the turbo and EGT is exhaust gas temperature measured after the turbo, so TIT will be higher than EGT. The temperature difference should be somewhat proportional to the boost ratio. The more boost being produced, the higher the back-pressure in the turbine impeller, and higher pressure implies higher temperature. Ron -- Cloud Services Checklist: Pricing and Packaging Optimization This white paper is intended to serve as a reference, checklist and point of discussion for anyone considering optimizing the pricing and packaging model of a cloud services business. Read Now! http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51491232/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Cloud Services Checklist: Pricing and Packaging Optimization This white paper is intended to serve as a reference, checklist and point of discussion for anyone considering optimizing the pricing and packaging model of a cloud services business. Read Now! http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51491232/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] turbine inlet temperature in the seneca (TIT)
On Mon, Dec 5, 2011 at 6:08 PM, Tuomas Kuosmanen tuomas.kuosma...@gmail.com wrote: Hello. I am working on some XML 2D gauges for our aviation club flight training device. We have a twin engine trainer I built over the years which runs on top of MS Flight Simulator, and I am making a flightgear setup for it to have a platform that stays alive :-) The SenecaII looks like the best choice for FDM, and I started to model some gauges in the SenecaV style (as our trainer has the two columns of small engine gauges on the right -panel cutout in place). However, SenecaV new style engine cluster has a turbine inlet temperature gauge (TIT). Does FG model this value? The property tree seems to have a tit property but it seems to be empty no matter if engines run or not. Does anyone have a clue on how to do this? Or should this be done somehow via nasal / other assumptions based on manifold pressure and environment etc..? Or should the TIT value show something? Best wishes, //Tuomas Tuomas, I can say for certain that YASim does not model TIT, and I believe JSBsim doesn't either, though there seems to be a stub for TIT modeling which may be where that property comes from. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong about JSBsim and TIT. A developer may have written custom code to model turbine inlet temp for a specific model, but I'm not aware of any examples. I'm currently working on a project that aims to handle multi-cylinder temperature reporting and yield results good enough to at least teach the concepts of best power/best economy and LOP operations. Unfortunately my effort doesn't yet model turbocharged engines. Since you're using the JSBsim-based Seneca II, you might want to consider working with JSBsim to add the necessary modeling for TIT, if it doesn't already exist. You might try posting on the JSBsim forum on this topic, as someone may already be developing this. -Gary aka Buckaroo -- Cloud Services Checklist: Pricing and Packaging Optimization This white paper is intended to serve as a reference, checklist and point of discussion for anyone considering optimizing the pricing and packaging model of a cloud services business. Read Now! http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51491232/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] turbine inlet temperature in the seneca (TIT)
On Tue, 2011-12-06 at 00:08 +0200, Tuomas Kuosmanen wrote: Hello. I am working on some XML 2D gauges for our aviation club flight training device. We have a twin engine trainer I built over the years which runs on top of MS Flight Simulator, and I am making a flightgear setup for it to have a platform that stays alive :-) The SenecaII looks like the best choice for FDM, and I started to model some gauges in the SenecaV style (as our trainer has the two columns of small engine gauges on the right -panel cutout in place). However, SenecaV new style engine cluster has a turbine inlet temperature gauge (TIT). Does FG model this value? The property tree seems to have a tit property but it seems to be empty no matter if engines run or not. For the F-16 I did tie this instrument to engines/engine[0]/egt-degf which might not be exactly true but maybe good enough? Erik -- Cloud Services Checklist: Pricing and Packaging Optimization This white paper is intended to serve as a reference, checklist and point of discussion for anyone considering optimizing the pricing and packaging model of a cloud services business. Read Now! http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51491232/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] turbine inlet temperature in the seneca (TIT)
On 6 December 2011 11:07, Gary Neely grne...@gmail.com wrote: I can say for certain that YASim does not model TIT, and I believe JSBsim doesn't either, though there seems to be a stub for TIT modeling which may be where that property comes from. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong about JSBsim and TIT. A developer may have written custom code to model turbine inlet temp for a specific model, but I'm not aware of any examples. Yeah, maybe one could do this with nasal, some educated guesswork etc.. As long as everything is working normally, it should follow other engine parameters and ambient air properties, I guess. I'm currently working on a project that aims to handle multi-cylinder temperature reporting and yield results good enough to at least teach the concepts of best power/best economy and LOP operations. Unfortunately my effort doesn't yet model turbocharged engines. That is important stuff too, would be useful for me also. Actually it would be nice to have something like the EDM-800 gauge (http://www.jpinstruments.com/edm_800.html) to show the values. Unfortunately my skills with fg / nasal / programming are not very high, as I am more of a designer, but let me know if I can help with graphics. I am better with that stuff. :) Since you're using the JSBsim-based Seneca II, you might want to consider working with JSBsim to add the necessary modeling for TIT, if it doesn't already exist. You might try posting on the JSBsim forum on this topic, as someone may already be developing this. Good point. //Tuomas -- Cloud Services Checklist: Pricing and Packaging Optimization This white paper is intended to serve as a reference, checklist and point of discussion for anyone considering optimizing the pricing and packaging model of a cloud services business. Read Now! http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51491232/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] turbine inlet temperature in the seneca (TIT)
On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 6:13 AM, Tuomas Kuosmanen tuomas.kuosma...@gmail.com wrote: On 6 December 2011 11:07, Gary Neely grne...@gmail.com wrote: I can say for certain that YASim does not model TIT, and I believe JSBsim doesn't either, though there seems to be a stub for TIT modeling which may be where that property comes from. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong about JSBsim and TIT. A developer may have written custom code to model turbine inlet temp for a specific model, but I'm not aware of any examples. Yeah, maybe one could do this with nasal, some educated guesswork etc.. As long as everything is working normally, it should follow other engine parameters and ambient air properties, I guess. I'm currently working on a project that aims to handle multi-cylinder temperature reporting and yield results good enough to at least teach the concepts of best power/best economy and LOP operations. Unfortunately my effort doesn't yet model turbocharged engines. That is important stuff too, would be useful for me also. Actually it would be nice to have something like the EDM-800 gauge (http://www.jpinstruments.com/edm_800.html) to show the values. Unfortunately my skills with fg / nasal / programming are not very high, as I am more of a designer, but let me know if I can help with graphics. I am better with that stuff. :) Well, I don't seem to have any 800's handy, but... http://www.jubjubjamboree.com/grn/flightgear/images/fgfs-screen-002.png maybe something loosely like an 830 would do for ya? -Gary, aka Buck -- Cloud Services Checklist: Pricing and Packaging Optimization This white paper is intended to serve as a reference, checklist and point of discussion for anyone considering optimizing the pricing and packaging model of a cloud services business. Read Now! http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51491232/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] turbine inlet temperature in the seneca (TIT)
Tuomas, I can say for certain that YASim does not model TIT, and I believe JSBsim doesn't either, though there seems to be a stub for TIT modeling which may be where that property comes from. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong about JSBsim and TIT. A developer may have written custom code to model turbine inlet temp for a specific model, but I'm not aware of any examples. I'm currently working on a project that aims to handle multi-cylinder temperature reporting and yield results good enough to at least teach the concepts of best power/best economy and LOP operations. Unfortunately my effort doesn't yet model turbocharged engines. Since you're using the JSBsim-based Seneca II, you might want to consider working with JSBsim to add the necessary modeling for TIT, if it doesn't already exist. You might try posting on the JSBsim forum on this topic, as someone may already be developing this. -Gary aka Buckaroo You can implement pretty much anything you want to as a function in an engine specification or a system in JSBSim, as long as the variables that a function depends on are publicly available. Ask on the JSBSim list. I don't have time to answer now, but maybe someone else can. Or, I can provide an example and discussion later tonight - maybe. Jon -- Cloud Services Checklist: Pricing and Packaging Optimization This white paper is intended to serve as a reference, checklist and point of discussion for anyone considering optimizing the pricing and packaging model of a cloud services business. Read Now! http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51491232/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] turbine inlet temperature in the seneca (TIT)
Yeah, maybe one could do this with nasal, some educated guesswork etc.. As long as everything is working normally, it should follow other engine parameters and ambient air properties, I guess. Hi Tuomas, neither yasim nor jsbsim model TIT, unfortunately. Some nasal or property-rules might simulate a sane behaviour. I'm currently working on a project that aims to handle multi-cylinder temperature reporting and yield results good enough to at least teach the concepts of best power/best economy and LOP operations. Unfortunately my effort doesn't yet model turbocharged engines. That is important stuff too, would be useful for me also. Actually it would be nice to have something like the EDM-800 gauge (http://www.jpinstruments.com/edm_800.html) to show the values. Unfortunately my skills with fg / nasal / programming are not very high, as I am more of a designer, but let me know if I can help with graphics. I am better with that stuff. :) I once made a EDM700 for the ZivkoEdge540, if that helps. You can find the Nasal code in FGDATA/Aircraft/ZivkoEdge/Nasal/EDM700.nas and the model in FGDATA/Aircraft/ZivkoEdge/Models/EDM700* Since you're using the JSBsim-based Seneca II, you might want to consider working with JSBsim to add the necessary modeling for TIT, if it doesn't already exist. You might try posting on the JSBsim forum on this topic, as someone may already be developing this. Good point. Ron Jensen is the master of the JSBSim piston engine code. IIRC he has the supercharger model on his backlog, maybe TIT will be part of his solution.. Torsten -- Cloud Services Checklist: Pricing and Packaging Optimization This white paper is intended to serve as a reference, checklist and point of discussion for anyone considering optimizing the pricing and packaging model of a cloud services business. Read Now! http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51491232/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] turbine inlet temperature in the seneca (TIT)
On Tuesday 06 December 2011 07:39:48 Torsten Dreyer wrote: t. Ron Jensen is the master of the JSBSim piston engine code. IIRC he has the supercharger model on his backlog, maybe TIT will be part of his solution.. The current supercharger code is old, and strictly RPM based, and I don't have a good solution. The EGT calculations changed slightly in the last (2.5) release, and will change again (already in git) in the next release, so they may be more accurate to use as a base for TIT. As I understand it, TIT is exhaust gas temperature measured before the turbo and EGT is exhaust gas temperature measured after the turbo, so TIT will be higher than EGT. The temperature difference should be somewhat proportional to the boost ratio. The more boost being produced, the higher the back-pressure in the turbine impeller, and higher pressure implies higher temperature. Ron -- Cloud Services Checklist: Pricing and Packaging Optimization This white paper is intended to serve as a reference, checklist and point of discussion for anyone considering optimizing the pricing and packaging model of a cloud services business. Read Now! http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51491232/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
