[gentoo-user] Re: Anyone using sys-devel/gcc-4.4.1
On 10/01/2009 07:50 AM, Dale wrote: Hi, I'm thinking about upgrading to gcc-4.4 and was wondering if anyone here is using it and if they are having any problems with it. I'm using a desktop system with KDE and OOo as the biggest packages. No servers or anything to worry about like apache. Also using 2.6.30-gentoo-r6 for my kernel. If you are using this with no problems, please let me know that and whether you have a similar setup. My last gcc upgrade was no fun. Lots of people are using it. It looks pretty good; here's a bug that tracks stuff broken with 4.4: http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=249226 As you can see, the vast majority of them have been fixed.
Re: [gentoo-user] Anyone using sys-devel/gcc-4.4.1
Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: On Donnerstag 01 Oktober 2009, Dale wrote: Thanks. What exactly is gcc-porting? I did a quick search and found a page on freshmeat but it seemed to be related to MS-DOS or something. Dale :-) :-) gcc-porting overlay, install via layman. It had some ebuild/package versions that were patched to compile with gcc4.4. AFAIK it is not needed anymore. I saw something about overlay somewhere while I was looking for info. I don't do the overlay thing. Just a plain old tree for me. Glad to know it is not needed now. Whew! Thanks for the info tho. Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Anyone using sys-devel/gcc-4.4.1
Nikos Chantziaras wrote: On 10/01/2009 07:50 AM, Dale wrote: Hi, I'm thinking about upgrading to gcc-4.4 and was wondering if anyone here is using it and if they are having any problems with it. I'm using a desktop system with KDE and OOo as the biggest packages. No servers or anything to worry about like apache. Also using 2.6.30-gentoo-r6 for my kernel. If you are using this with no problems, please let me know that and whether you have a similar setup. My last gcc upgrade was no fun. Lots of people are using it. It looks pretty good; here's a bug that tracks stuff broken with 4.4: http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=249226 As you can see, the vast majority of them have been fixed. It does look pretty good. Hopefully this will be better than the last upgrade. Seamonkey went goofy and I couldn't compile a kernel at all. I don't know what happened. Giving this some more thought before jumping in tho. ;-) Thanks much. Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 4 bugs update
Change it in Systemsettings. I use konsole-4.3.1 with kde-3.5.10 and after the change it opens firefox for me. What all do you unmask for this? I'm still kicking around 3.5.10, but I wouldn't mind some updated apps, and some of the new Konsole features sound useful (which is ironic, since they were laid out as to why there aren't differences from 3.5.10...) Of course I wouldn't mind Okular either, but I think this needs the full kde4 libraries. ~daid
Re: [gentoo-user] fcrontab - what am I missing?
Helmut Jarausch schrieb: On 30 Sep, Dirk Heinrichs wrote: Am Mittwoch 30 September 2009 17:40:43 schrieb Helmut Jarausch: I've been using fcron for quite some time, but now it behaves strange. I have version 3.0.4-r2 installed. Doing fcrontab -e as non-root user I get Could not change egid to fcron[449]: Operation not permitted although I'm a member of group fcron. Maybe permissions of fcrontab are borked, should be: # ll =fcrontab -rwsr-sr-x 1 fcron fcron 51K 10. Jun 19:28 /usr/bin/fcrontab* Unfortunately, the same as here. Helmut. And the filesystem is not mounted nosuid? signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 4 bugs update
Am 01.10.2009 08:27, schrieb daid kahl: What all do you unmask for this? I'm still kicking around 3.5.10, but I wouldn't mind some updated apps, and some of the new Konsole features sound useful (which is ironic, since they were laid out as to why there aren't differences from 3.5.10...) I don't know what was exactly needed to unmask because I go ~amd64 since some time now. To prevent kde4 to install full I have it hard masked in package.mask and use autounmask to unmask the parts I want to use. You could use autounmask -p kde-base/konsole-4.3.1-r1 to see what would be unmasked. Of course I wouldn't mind Okular either, but I think this needs the full kde4 libraries. I use Okular here and it works really fine. Ok, I have 8GB RAM so the additional libs from kde4 don't hurt here. Greetings Sebastian
Re: [gentoo-user] device eth0 does not exist
Stroller schrieb: Didn't the e1000 module change name in a recent kernel release? I carried this notion, too. I thought it was mentioned on the list but a quick search didn't find it. It was in thread: NIC not detected after Kernel upgrade at 15th Feb 2009. There are two modules in the kernel: e1000 is the historical code for older net-devices and the new developed e1000e for the newer like pci-express versions. Steffen
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Anyone using sys-devel/gcc-4.4.1
On Thu, 01 Oct 2009 01:15:11 -0500, Dale wrote: It does look pretty good. Hopefully this will be better than the last upgrade. Seamonkey went goofy and I couldn't compile a kernel at all. I don't know what happened. Giving this some more thought before jumping in tho. ;-) 4.4 is slotted, so you can keep 4.3 around until you know everything works with the newer version, although I removed 4.3 some time ago because I never needed it. -- Neil Bothwick Celery is not food. It is a member of the plywood family. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Anyone using sys-devel/gcc-4.4.1
Neil Bothwick wrote: On Thu, 01 Oct 2009 01:15:11 -0500, Dale wrote: It does look pretty good. Hopefully this will be better than the last upgrade. Seamonkey went goofy and I couldn't compile a kernel at all. I don't know what happened. Giving this some more thought before jumping in tho. ;-) 4.4 is slotted, so you can keep 4.3 around until you know everything works with the newer version, although I removed 4.3 some time ago because I never needed it. I'm still on this: i686-pc-linux-gnu-4.1.2 gcc-4.3 was a bust for me. Stuff crashing, couldn't compile a kernel and a few other weird things. I went back to 4.1 and left 4.3 alone. Thanks for the info. It's compiling right now. Boy it is big. Dale :-) :-)
[gentoo-user] Re: Re: device eth0 does not exist
Can you show the results of `modprobe -v e1000` please? Code: # modprobe -v e1000 FATAL: Module e1000 not found. ... but ... Code: # find /lib/modules/2.6.30-gentoo-r6/ -type f -iname '*.o' -or -iname '*.ko' | grep e1000 /lib/modules/2.6.30-gentoo-r6/kernel/drivers/net/e1000/e1000.ko Nothing revelent was displayed when tail -f /var/log/messages while modprobe -v e1000. Hm, is it a pci-express device? No. My board doesn't have pci-express. Thank you for your time and consideration. P.S. Sorry about the pastebin. Someone told me use that when I posted a few weeks ago. _ Get your FREE, LinuxWaves.com Email Now! -- http://www.LinuxWaves.com Join Linux Discussions! -- http://Community.LinuxWaves.com
[gentoo-user] Re: Anyone using sys-devel/gcc-4.4.1
On 10/01/2009 11:45 AM, Dale wrote: Thanks for the info. It's compiling right now. Boy it is big. That's what she said. (Sorry, couldn't resist :P)
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: gnome 2.26 stable?
On Thu, 2009-10-01 at 06:48 +0200, Stefan G. Weichinger wrote: Daniel Troeder schrieb: Same here. After booting no sound ... in PA all looks good, after some searching I find alsamixer mutes things ... sigh ... but as long as there aren't more problems I can live with it. You can set things with alsamixer, and then (save and) restore them on (re)boot with /etc/init.d/alsasound Setup is in /etc/conf.d/alsasound. Bye, Daniel -- PGP key @ http://pgpkeys.pca.dfn.de/pks/lookup?search=0xBB9D4887op=get # gpg --recv-keys --keyserver hkp://subkeys.pgp.net 0xBB9D4887 signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Anyone using sys-devel/gcc-4.4.1
Nikos Chantziaras wrote: On 10/01/2009 11:45 AM, Dale wrote: Thanks for the info. It's compiling right now. Boy it is big. That's what she said. (Sorry, couldn't resist :P) I was trying to make Nikos into a girl for a second there. LOL I need to get some sleep. It's compiled and I'm about to switch. It said something about running fix_libtool_files.sh for the libstdc++.la stuff. H, always something. I'm going to do a emerge -e system at a minimum anyway. Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Anyone using sys-devel/gcc-4.4.1
Dale schrieb: Nikos Chantziaras wrote: On 10/01/2009 11:45 AM, Dale wrote: Thanks for the info. It's compiling right now. Boy it is big. That's what she said. (Sorry, couldn't resist :P) I was trying to make Nikos into a girl for a second there. LOL I need to get some sleep. It's compiled and I'm about to switch. It said something about running fix_libtool_files.sh for the libstdc++.la stuff. H, always something. I'm going to do a emerge -e system at a minimum anyway. You should do fix_libtool_files.sh before the emerge -e system it only takes a few minutes (even less here) and you are on a safer side. Greetings Sebastian
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: fcrontab - what am I missing?
On 30 Sep, Doug Hunley wrote: On Wed, Sep 30, 2009 at 11:40, Helmut Jarausch jarau...@igpm.rwth-aachen.de wrote: Hi, I've been using fcron for quite some time, but now it behaves strange. I have version 3.0.4-r2 installed. If you mask that version and downgrade, does the issue persist? Do you have a nosuid mount option in effect now that you didn't before? Is /tmp (and or /var/tmp or even /var/spool/fcron (iirc)) truly mode 1777 ? Strangely not, ls -ld /var/spool/fcron gives drwsrws--- 2 stunnel fcron 4096 Oct 1 11:31 /var/spool/fcron So, who is 'stunnel'. The corr. entry in /etc/passwd is stunnel:x:104:1007:added by portage for stunnel:/dev/null:/sbin/nologin So what is, what should be going on? Thanks for your help, Helmut. -- Helmut Jarausch Lehrstuhl fuer Numerische Mathematik RWTH - Aachen University D 52056 Aachen, Germany
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Anyone using sys-devel/gcc-4.4.1
Sebastian Beßler wrote: Dale schrieb: Nikos Chantziaras wrote: On 10/01/2009 11:45 AM, Dale wrote: Thanks for the info. It's compiling right now. Boy it is big. That's what she said. (Sorry, couldn't resist :P) I was trying to make Nikos into a girl for a second there. LOL I need to get some sleep. It's compiled and I'm about to switch. It said something about running fix_libtool_files.sh for the libstdc++.la stuff. H, always something. I'm going to do a emerge -e system at a minimum anyway. You should do fix_libtool_files.sh before the emerge -e system it only takes a few minutes (even less here) and you are on a safer side. Greetings Sebastian Yup, it took about three seconds but didn't emerge anything so I guess I am good to go. Yeppie!! Dale :-) :-) P. S. Dale crosses fingers, toes and anything else that I can cross. I hope this goes better than last time.
[gentoo-user] Re: device eth0 does not exist
On 10/01/2009 01:49 AM, Cinder wrote: Can you show the results of `modprobe -v e1000` please? Code: # modprobe -v e1000 FATAL: Module e1000 not found. Try running 'depmod'.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Anyone using sys-devel/gcc-4.4.1
Dale schrieb: Yup, it took about three seconds but didn't emerge anything so I guess I am good to go. Yeppie!! Thats normal, because it never emerges anything. It only changes references by patching files. Greetings Sebastian
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: gnome 2.26 stable?
Daniel Troeder schrieb: On Thu, 2009-10-01 at 06:48 +0200, Stefan G. Weichinger wrote: Daniel Troeder schrieb: Same here. After booting no sound ... in PA all looks good, after some searching I find alsamixer mutes things ... sigh ... but as long as there aren't more problems I can live with it. You can set things with alsamixer, and then (save and) restore them on (re)boot with /etc/init.d/alsasound Setup is in /etc/conf.d/alsasound. So I have to have both services running, alsasound AND pulseaudio ? I assumed I would have to disable alsasound when using PA (and disabled it ...) S
Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 4 bugs update
On Thu, 1 Oct 2009 15:27:47 +0900, daid kahl daid...@gmail.com wrote: Change it in Systemsettings. I use konsole-4.3.1 with kde-3.5.10 and after the change it opens firefox for me. What all do you unmask for this? I'm still kicking around 3.5.10, but I wouldn't mind some updated apps, and some of the new Konsole features sound useful (which is ironic, since they were laid out as to why there aren't differences from 3.5.10...) Of course I wouldn't mind Okular either, but I think this needs the full kde4 libraries. I don't know if I understand you well, but either way you'll need kdelibs for *any* kde package, konsole is no exception. It's perfectly possible to have 3.x and 4.x installed alongside, but if you use both at the same time it will of course cause an extra waste of ram. There's no work around for that because you will have to load the run time stuff for both kde 3.x and 4.x, but nothing that a modern desktop machine should be worried about. You can start by keywording kdelibs and konsole for your ~arch, then try to emerge and go from there. -- Jesús Guerrero
[gentoo-user] Re: fcrontab - what am I missing?
On Thu, Oct 1, 2009 at 05:55, Helmut Jarausch jarau...@igpm.rwth-aachen.de Strangely not, ls -ld /var/spool/fcron gives drwsrws--- 2 stunnel fcron 4096 Oct 1 11:31 /var/spool/fcron So, who is 'stunnel'. The corr. entry in /etc/passwd is stunnel:x:104:1007:added by portage for stunnel:/dev/null:/sbin/nologin So what is, what should be going on? From the ebuild: docrondir /var/spool/fcron -m6770 -o fcron -g fcron so do: chown fcron.fcron /var/spool/fcron chmod 6770 /var/spool/fcron chown fcron.fcron /var/spool/fcron/* to set it right -- Douglas J Hunley, RHCT doug.hun...@gmail.com : http://douglasjhunley.com : Twitter: @hunleyd Obsessively opposed to the typical.
Re: [gentoo-user] Anyone using sys-devel/gcc-4.4.1
On 1 Oct 2009, at 06:38, Dale wrote: Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: ... gcc-porting helped tho Thanks. What exactly is gcc-porting? Well, duh! It's where you enlarge polish the compiler's intake valves, to improve airflow. Stroller.
Re: [gentoo-user] Different desktop wallpapers in KDE4?
On Wednesday 30 September 2009 20:20:01 Roy Wright wrote: Here's what I did which seems to work nicely: Created an auto hide panel centered on top edge. Added the activity bar widget to this panel. Create Activity (cashew, Zoom Out, alt-D alt-A, then select setup (wrench icon) (you may have to grab and scroll the desktop to see the commands) and name the activity. You can also set the background here. Use the Activity Bar to select another activity. Note, the first time after adding an activity, the activity bar has a bug where it will show the names for all of the activities, but will draw n-1 buttons. Just click on one button then the activity bar will be correct. Now on any activity, you can right click the desktop and choose Desktop Settings, then change the background. Seems like an awful lot of hoops to jump through just to get a facility that comes out of the box in 3.5. Maybe I'll give it a try anyway, so thanks. -- Rgds Peter
[gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..
Hello, happy Gentoo users! I'm new on this distro, so I'm sorry if you consider to be stupid what I gonna say. Many of us prefer editors other than nano. Some of us believe in ideas of freedom and choice which Gentoo provides us with. But... There're ones who prefer primitive hardcoding over giving the enduser to choose. There're defaults set by someone, that you should respect. Because... Just because he wants so. Because you are nothing. Just another ungrateful user... An example? The package SUDO. It is one of the most mandatory packages in distro. But it totally ignores the enduser's favor in editing. It just hardcodes what the ebuild's maintainer decided. Once and forever. Do you want to remove nano from your system? DON'T DO THAT! Or you gonna get some issues, you shouldn't get, if the things work as expected. I just installed VIM with emerge, and removed nano because I considered it to be absolutely unnecessary in my system. Why I need nano? I am a VIM fan. And here the troubles begin... Run sudo visudo and you get this: ~ $ sudo visudo visudo: no editor found (editor path = /bin/nano) ~ $ env | grep -i edit EDITOR=/usr/bin/vim What a surprise! Hm... Possibly I did something wrong when setting my system, that terminates me with this error?.. So I was forced to spend my time analysing what is wrong with the package and how to fix that. Because I remember it was working as expected in my previous LFS (linuxfromscratch) system. My quests leaded me to the ebuild of sudo. And I saw this nice shiny line there: --with-editor=/bin/nano Stop. I don't use nano. I even don't have it! But the ebuild doesn't check if nano is installed. No care. It was just like said to me: Hey, you are just a stupid moron! Who removes default editor? He-he... I asked the ebuild maintainer to fix this behaviour. And what did he say? You should read manual page of sudo in order to make it work as expected. To make it respect your preferences. And I don't care what editor you prefer. Nano is Gentoo default editor!!! You understand? Stop boring me! I will not change anything! Ha-ha... Actually it was said in other words but the idea is same. Looks like the principle it just works is not for Gentoo users. If you don't agree with ignoring of your preferences, please vote for this bug: http://bugs.gentoo.org/votes.cgi?action=show_userbug_id=286017#vote_286017 P.S. Having defaults is not bad. But they should not override our favourites. Thank you. -- Best regards, Spinal
Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..
On 10/1/2009 10:44 AM, Arthur D. wrote: I just installed VIM with emerge, and removed nano because I considered it to be absolutely unnecessary in my system. Why I need nano? I am a VIM fan. And here the troubles begin... Run sudo visudo and you get this: ~ $ sudo visudo visudo: no editor found (editor path = /bin/nano) ~ $ env | grep -i edit EDITOR=/usr/bin/vim You have two options: 1. Tell sudo to preserve the EDITOR variable in /etc/sudoers: Defaultsenv_keep += EDITOR VISUAL PAGER Otherwise sudo will ignore your environment and use the defaults for the new user. 2. Change the default editor on your system by putting something in /etc/env.d: apollo ~ # cat /etc/env.d/99editor EDITOR=vim --Mike
Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..
On Donnerstag 01 Oktober 2009, Arthur D. wrote: Hello, happy Gentoo users! I'm new on this distro, so I'm sorry if you consider to be stupid what I gonna say. Many of us prefer editors other than nano. Some of us believe in ideas of freedom and choice which Gentoo provides us with. But... There're ones who prefer primitive hardcoding over giving the enduser to choose. There're defaults set by someone, that you should respect. Because... Just because he wants so. Because you are nothing. Just another ungrateful user... An example? The package SUDO. It is one of the most mandatory packages in distro. But it totally ignores the enduser's favor in editing. It just hardcodes what the ebuild's maintainer decided. Once and forever. Do you want to remove nano from your system? DON'T DO THAT! Or you gonna get some issues, you shouldn't get, if the things work as expected. I just installed VIM with emerge, and removed nano because I considered it to be absolutely unnecessary in my system. Why I need nano? I am a VIM fan. And here the troubles begin... Run sudo visudo and you get this: ~ $ sudo visudo visudo: no editor found (editor path = /bin/nano) ~ $ env | grep -i edit EDITOR=/usr/bin/vim What a surprise! Hm... Possibly I did something wrong when setting my system, that terminates me with this error?.. So I was forced to spend my time analysing what is wrong with the package and how to fix that. Because I remember it was working as expected in my previous LFS (linuxfromscratch) system. My quests leaded me to the ebuild of sudo. And I saw this nice shiny line there: --with-editor=/bin/nano Stop. I don't use nano. I even don't have it! But the ebuild doesn't check if nano is installed. No care. It was just like said to me: Hey, you are just a stupid moron! Who removes default editor? He-he... I asked the ebuild maintainer to fix this behaviour. And what did he say? You should read manual page of sudo in order to make it work as expected. To make it respect your preferences. And I don't care what editor you prefer. Nano is Gentoo default editor!!! You understand? Stop boring me! I will not change anything! Ha-ha... Actually it was said in other words but the idea is same. Looks like the principle it just works is not for Gentoo users. If you don't agree with ignoring of your preferences, please vote for this bug: http://bugs.gentoo.org/votes.cgi?action=show_userbug_id=286017#vote_286017 P.S. Having defaults is not bad. But they should not override our favourites. Thank you. -- Best regards, Spinal and isn't the real upstream hard coded editor vim? so.. how about... you know... don't get your panties in a knot about nothing?
Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..
Arthur D. wrote: Hello, happy Gentoo users! I'm new on this distro, so I'm sorry if you consider to be stupid what I gonna say. Many of us prefer editors other than nano. Some of us believe in ideas of freedom and choice which Gentoo provides us with. But... There're ones who prefer primitive hardcoding over giving the enduser to choose. There're defaults set by someone, that you should respect. Because... Just because he wants so. Because you are nothing. Just another ungrateful user... An example? The package SUDO. It is one of the most mandatory packages in distro. But it totally ignores the enduser's favor in editing. It just hardcodes what the ebuild's maintainer decided. Once and forever. Do you want to remove nano from your system? DON'T DO THAT! Or you gonna get some issues, you shouldn't get, if the things work as expected. I just installed VIM with emerge, and removed nano because I considered it to be absolutely unnecessary in my system. Why I need nano? I am a VIM fan. And here the troubles begin... Run sudo visudo and you get this: ~ $ sudo visudo visudo: no editor found (editor path = /bin/nano) ~ $ env | grep -i edit EDITOR=/usr/bin/vim What a surprise! Hm... Possibly I did something wrong when setting my system, that terminates me with this error?.. So I was forced to spend my time analysing what is wrong with the package and how to fix that. Because I remember it was working as expected in my previous LFS (linuxfromscratch) system. My quests leaded me to the ebuild of sudo. And I saw this nice shiny line there: --with-editor=/bin/nano Stop. I don't use nano. I even don't have it! But the ebuild doesn't check if nano is installed. No care. It was just like said to me: Hey, you are just a stupid moron! Who removes default editor? He-he... I asked the ebuild maintainer to fix this behaviour. And what did he say? You should read manual page of sudo in order to make it work as expected. To make it respect your preferences. And I don't care what editor you prefer. Nano is Gentoo default editor!!! You understand? Stop boring me! I will not change anything! Ha-ha... Actually it was said in other words but the idea is same. Looks like the principle it just works is not for Gentoo users. If you don't agree with ignoring of your preferences, please vote for this bug: http://bugs.gentoo.org/votes.cgi?action=show_userbug_id=286017#vote_286017 P.S. Having defaults is not bad. But they should not override our favourites. Thank you. -- Best regards, Spinal This behavior is controlled by the EDITOR environmental variable, which you should change in /etc/rc.conf. It's one of the first things I change when I tackle a new build. The reason why the default is what it is is a good one: the default agrees with the rest of the initial Gentoo environment when you first build it. Luckily for you, everything in Gentoo is very easy to change. Also, one should always pose ones queries in the form of a question instead of an attack. And for the love of God, don't feed the devs! DC signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
[gentoo-user] [OT] PGP User Groups?
Hello list, I've noticed that with linux geekery comes the pursuit of PGP-based email privacy. A great many frequent posters to this illustrious list boast PGP keypairs and frequently sign their correspondences. Some of you even have photo ID's of yourselves in your public keys! (Hello Neil!) Unfortunately, like many of you, I am not an international spy and don't have much to protect with this awesome encryption technology. This leads me to wonder if anyone has ever heard of any PGP user groups that frequently employ encryption and do key signing and the like? Thanks guys! DC signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..
On Thu, 2009-10-01 at 17:44 +0300, Arthur D. wrote: [long post about something relatively trivial] sudoedit (and others) use the EDITOR (or VISUAL or whatever) environment variable to chose an editor. Gentoo defaults to nano. It's easy to change it (most experienced Linux users do). # emerge -C nano emerge vim # echo EDITOR=/usr/bin/vim /etc/env.d/99local # env-update And he's right, as a meta distribution, it just works is generally *not* regarded as a Gentoo principle to shoot for.
Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..
Arthur D. wrote: Many of us prefer editors other than nano. Me included. I don't have nano installed here - I use LE. The package SUDO. It is one of the most mandatory packages in distro. Hmm. It's not even installed on any of my 15 systems - no use for it whatsoever. The default editor is set in /etc/rc.conf. Never had a problem with that. Methinks RTFM applies? Be lucky, Neil http://www.neiljw.com
Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..
On Thu, Oct 1, 2009 at 11:11 AM, Albert Hopkins mar...@letterboxes.org wrote: [very clear, consice, polite answer to the OP's question] And he's right, as a meta distribution, it just works is generally *not* regarded as a Gentoo principle to shoot for. And oddly, in fact, it usually it's still a goal usually reached, or at least rather easily attained in all of 2 steps past emerge (often mentioned in emerge output) by the admin. It Just Works though, in other distros, applies all the way up to the line where you start trying to decide things for yourself, while the distro maintainers have decided other things for you... I saw it back in Mandrake, I see it now in Ubuntu. Wonderful distros for ease of use, but stripping them down to a minimal system and expecting all my favorite pieces to happily coexist never quite just works. I'm strongly considering, now that I've the drive space (upped from 4gb to 16gb) in my netbook, bringing the last of my 'nix boxes back to Gentoo for the very fact that the system's been lacking in the It Just Works principle. Randomly, an oddly fitting quote in my signature. -- Poison [BLX] Joshua M. Murphy The price of greatness is responsibility. - Sir Winston Churchill
Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..
Thanks for your replies, guys. 2. Change the default editor on your system by putting something in /etc/env.d: apollo ~ # cat /etc/env.d/99editor EDITOR=vim --Mike === spi...@supervisor ~ $ cat /etc/env.d/99editor # Configuration file for eselect # This file has been automatically generated. EDITOR=/usr/bin/vim spi...@supervisor ~ $ sudo visudo visudo: no editor found (editor path = /bin/nano) === The first option works fine, but ... how much time should the user spend to get things just work as expected? Yes, there are such geeks like me and you, who will spend his time doing what should already be done by maintainers. Look in the man page, it's far from obvious why isn't EDITOR variable respected. -- Best regards, Spinal
Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] PGP User Groups?
Dan Cowsill wrote: Hello list, I've noticed that with linux geekery comes the pursuit of PGP-based email privacy. A great many frequent posters to this illustrious list boast PGP keypairs and frequently sign their correspondences. Some of you even have photo ID's of yourselves in your public keys! (Hello Neil!) Unfortunately, like many of you, I am not an international spy and don't have much to protect with this awesome encryption technology. This leads me to wonder if anyone has ever heard of any PGP user groups that frequently employ encryption and do key signing and the like? Thanks guys! DC Both Linux User Groups that I'm in have PGP key signings on a regular basis. I think that starts to answer your question... -- Eric Martin signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..
On Thu, 01 Oct 2009 17:44:41 +0300, Arthur D. wrote: My quests leaded me to the ebuild of sudo. And I saw this nice shiny line there: --with-editor=/bin/nano P.S. Having defaults is not bad. But they should not override our favourites. What you you think that line in the ebuild does? It changes the *default* editor for visudo. If you want something else, all you need to do is set your system up accordingly as described in the installation instructions of the handbook. PS Good luck getting anything changed to suit your demands with your attitude. You don't pay the devs enough for them to put up with that. -- Neil Bothwick Why is the alphabet in that order? Is it because of that song? signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] PGP User Groups?
On Thu, 01 Oct 2009 11:03:23 -0400, Dan Cowsill wrote: Unfortunately, like many of you, I am not an international spy and don't have much to protect with this awesome encryption technology. My main concern is verification. If it ain't signed by me, you can't assume it is from me. This leads me to wonder if anyone has ever heard of any PGP user groups that frequently employ encryption and do key signing and the like? Many LUGs have regular key-signing sessions. -- Neil Bothwick Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Anyone using sys-devel/gcc-4.4.1
On Wed, Sep 30, 2009 at 11:50 PM, Dale rdalek1...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, I'm thinking about upgrading to gcc-4.4 and was wondering if anyone here is using it and if they are having any problems with it. I'm using a desktop system with KDE and OOo as the biggest packages. No servers or anything to worry about like apache. Also using 2.6.30-gentoo-r6 for my kernel. I'm using ~amd64 with same kernel, KDE4, gcc-4.4.1 and no problems. I'm even using the graphite USE flag the loop-related cflags. Nothing has blown up (yet). :)
Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..
On 1 Oct 2009, at 15:44, Arthur D. wrote: ... I just installed VIM with emerge, and removed nano because I considered it to be absolutely unnecessary in my system. Why I need nano? I am a VIM fan. And here the troubles begin... Run sudo visudo and you get this: ~ $ sudo visudo visudo: no editor found (editor path = /bin/nano) ~ $ env | grep -i edit EDITOR=/usr/bin/vim You seem to have alienated some responses with your posting manner, but it seems that folks are replying without reading the above. Here, as user stroller, `sudo visudo` runs nano. If I `su` to root, then vi is used. In both environments `echo $EDITOR` now returns /usr/bin/vim. (previously user stroller had just vi set as editor, but changing it sourcing .bashrc doesn't make any difference) I'm unclear why the user preference of editor seems to be ignored here. If I `touch /etc/sudoers.tmp touch /etc/sudoers.tmp chmod 777 / etc/sudoers.tmp /etc/sudoers` then `visudo` does indeed seem to use vi. So it seems to me that you're right. It appears like maybe when `sudo` detects that it's running `visudo` it does seem to ignore $EDITOR. I, too, disagree with this behaviour. IMO the ebuild (--with-editor=/bin/ nano) take the editor from /etc/rc.conf, but I'm extremely curious why upstream makes this behaviour, anyway. Stroller.
Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..
On 1 Oct 2009, at 16:40, Stroller wrote: ... So it seems to me that you're right. It appears like maybe when `sudo` detects that it's running `visudo` it does seem to ignore $EDITOR. I, too, disagree with this behaviour. IMO the ebuild (-- with-editor=/bin/nano) take the editor from /etc/rc.conf, but I'm extremely curious why upstream makes this behaviour, anyway. Actually READING the bug actually showed a number of reasoned responses to the OP's complaint. I don't think you'll have much luck debating this: since upstream hardcodes it, it comes down largely to the nano-as-default-editor argument, which was first made in the Paleolithic era and which has been hotly debated without change since. I now appear unable to access that bug: http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=286017 Thanks for that. Stroller.
Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..
Arthur D. wrote: The first option works fine, but ... how much time should the user spend to get things just work as expected? Plainly put, Gentoo isn't an easy-to-use distro. If it were, I don't think I would be using it, paradoxically enough. If spending a little time learning about and playing with the config files is outside of the purview of what you consider to be a functional distro, then perhaps you should look elsewhere. DC signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..
On Thu, 01 Oct 2009 18:58:43 +0300, Arthur D. wrote: 1. emerge -C nano 2. emerge vim 3. export EDITOR=`which vim` 4. Or do eselect editor - env-update ; or edit /etc/rc.conf - env-update 5. Reemerge sudo if you wish (it will not change anything) 6. Relogin 7. Run sudo visudo You get this: visudo: no editor found (editor path = /bin/nano) No I don't. I get /etc/sudoers loaded into joe, which is set in $EDITOR. You seem to be the only one suffering with this problem, so it seems reasonable to conclude that this is peculiar to your setup and that shouting at devs and other users will not fix it. -- Neil Bothwick In 1750 Issac Newton became discouraged when he fell up a flight of stairs. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..
1. emerge -C nano 2. emerge vim 3. export EDITOR=`which vim` 4. Or do eselect editor - env-update ; or edit /etc/rc.conf - env-update 5. Reemerge sudo if you wish (it will not change anything) 6. Relogin 7. Run sudo visudo You get this: visudo: no editor found (editor path = /bin/nano) No I don't. I get /etc/sudoers loaded into joe, which is set in $EDITOR. You seem to be the only one suffering with this problem, so it seems reasonable to conclude that this is peculiar to your setup and that shouting at devs and other users will not fix it. I gonna bet you added magic line to your sudoers previously or make some other crutches to make it work: Defaults env_keep=EDITOR -- Best regards, Spinal
[gentoo-user] Re: Am I wrong?..
On 10/01/2009 11:34 AM, Arthur D. wrote: Thanks for your replies, guys. 2. Change the default editor on your system by putting something in /etc/env.d: apollo ~ # cat /etc/env.d/99editor EDITOR=vim --Mike === spi...@supervisor ~ $ cat /etc/env.d/99editor # Configuration file for eselect # This file has been automatically generated. EDITOR=/usr/bin/vim spi...@supervisor ~ $ sudo visudo visudo: no editor found (editor path = /bin/nano) === The first option works fine, but ... how much time should the user spend to get things just work as expected? Yes, there are such geeks like me and you, who will spend his time doing what should already be done by maintainers. Look in the man page, it's far from obvious why isn't EDITOR variable respected. From the sudoers man page: env_reset If set, sudo will reset the environment to only contain the LOGNAME, SHELL, USER, USERNAME and the SUDO_* variables. Any variables in the caller's environment that match the env_keep and env_check lists are then added. The default contents of the env_keep and env_check lists are displayed when sudo is run by root with the -V option. If the secure_path option is set, its value will be used for the PATH environment variable. This flag is on by default. Looks pretty clear to me. The default to to ditch EDITOR along with other potentially dangerous environment variables. Doug
[gentoo-user] Re: Am I wrong?..
On 10/01/2009 11:58 AM, Arthur D. wrote: Neil Bothwick n...@digimed.co.uk писал(а) в своём письме Thu, 01 Oct 2009 18:45:20 +0300: My quests leaded me to the ebuild of sudo. And I saw this nice shiny line there: --with-editor=/bin/nano P.S. Having defaults is not bad. But they should not override our favourites. What you you think that line in the ebuild does? It changes the *default* editor for visudo. If you want something else, all you need to do is set your system up accordingly as described in the installation instructions of the handbook. PS Good luck getting anything changed to suit your demands with your attitude. You don't pay the devs enough for them to put up with that. OK. One more time. 1. emerge -C nano 2. emerge vim 3. export EDITOR=`which vim` 4. Or do eselect editor - env-update ; or edit /etc/rc.conf - env-update 5. Reemerge sudo if you wish (it will not change anything) 6. Relogin 7. Run sudo visudo You get this: visudo: no editor found (editor path = /bin/nano) Step 5a: echo 'Defaults editor=/usr/bin/vim' /etc/sudoers
Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..
2009/10/1 Arthur D. spinal...@mail.ru: Hello, happy Gentoo users! I'm new on this distro, so I'm sorry if you consider to be stupid what I gonna say. Many of us prefer editors other than nano. Some of us believe in ideas of freedom and choice which Gentoo provides us with. But... There're ones who prefer primitive hardcoding over giving the enduser to choose. There're defaults set by someone, that you should respect. Because... Just because he wants so. Because you are nothing. Just another ungrateful user... An example? The package SUDO. It is one of the most mandatory packages in distro. But it totally ignores the enduser's favor in editing. It just hardcodes what the ebuild's maintainer decided. Once and forever. Do you want to remove nano from your system? DON'T DO THAT! Or you gonna get some issues, you shouldn't get, if the things work as expected. I just installed VIM with emerge, and removed nano because I considered it to be absolutely unnecessary in my system. Why I need nano? I am a VIM fan. And here the troubles begin... Run sudo visudo and you get this: ~ $ sudo visudo visudo: no editor found (editor path = /bin/nano) ~ $ env | grep -i edit EDITOR=/usr/bin/vim What a surprise! Hm... Possibly I did something wrong when setting my system, that terminates me with this error?.. So I was forced to spend my time analysing what is wrong with the package and how to fix that. Because I remember it was working as expected in my previous LFS (linuxfromscratch) system. My quests leaded me to the ebuild of sudo. And I saw this nice shiny line there: --with-editor=/bin/nano Stop. I don't use nano. I even don't have it! But the ebuild doesn't check if nano is installed. No care. It was just like said to me: Hey, you are just a stupid moron! Who removes default editor? He-he... I asked the ebuild maintainer to fix this behaviour. And what did he say? You should read manual page of sudo in order to make it work as expected. To make it respect your preferences. And I don't care what editor you prefer. Nano is Gentoo default editor!!! You understand? Stop boring me! I will not change anything! Ha-ha... Actually it was said in other words but the idea is same. Looks like the principle it just works is not for Gentoo users. If you don't agree with ignoring of your preferences, please vote for this bug: http://bugs.gentoo.org/votes.cgi?action=show_userbug_id=286017#vote_286017 P.S. Having defaults is not bad. But they should not override our favourites. Section 8.c of the Gentoo Handbook (called System Information) advises you to edit /etc/rc.conf to change your preferences. Either you missed that section or didn't read the documentation, the dev has all the right to answer like that. Creating the bug before asking here was also not a good idea. -- Daniel da Veiga
Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..
On Thu, 01 Oct 2009 19:21:07 +0300, Arthur D. wrote: I gonna bet you added magic line to your sudoers previously or make some other crutches to make it work: Defaults env_keep=EDITOR You lost that bet. -- Neil Bothwick Is it possible to be totally partial? signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..
I gonna bet you added magic line to your sudoers previously or make some other crutches to make it work: Defaults env_keep=EDITOR You lost that bet. Proof? Section 8.c of the Gentoo Handbook (called System Information) advises you to edit /etc/rc.conf to change your preferences. Daniel, I read the book carefully and did all that was need. Also I commented #EDITOR=/bin/nano And set EDITOR=/usr/bin/vim there Any more suggestions? -- Best regards, Spinal
Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..
2009/10/1 Arthur D. spinal...@mail.ru: I gonna bet you added magic line to your sudoers previously or make some other crutches to make it work: Defaults env_keep=EDITOR You lost that bet. Proof? Section 8.c of the Gentoo Handbook (called System Information) advises you to edit /etc/rc.conf to change your preferences. Daniel, I read the book carefully and did all that was need. Also I commented #EDITOR=/bin/nano And set EDITOR=/usr/bin/vim there Any more suggestions? I'm using a 4 years old system, and if I change that line, log out and in again, it changes the env variable and everything works (that means the behavior is probably caused by your configuration). If visudo is still using that configuration, maybe that's because some configuration file has precedence over environment variables. In that case, you gotta find that file and change it. Not an easy task, anyway... I just did an grep -r /bin/nano in /etc. LOL, I know there's a better way, I'm just too lazy to look for it... -- Daniel da Veiga
Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..
I'm using a 4 years old system, and if I change that line, log out and in again, it changes the env variable and everything works (that means the behavior is probably caused by your configuration). If visudo is still using that configuration, maybe that's because some configuration file has precedence over environment variables. In that case, you gotta find that file and change it. Not an easy task, anyway... I just did an grep -r /bin/nano in /etc. LOL, I know there's a better way, I'm just too lazy to look for it... Man, running sudo visudo and just running visudo is not the same. Be careful. Nano is hardcoded in sudo's ebuild. -- Best regards, Spinal
Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..
As the access to the bug was denied by the admin please use this link for discussion: http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-795069.html Thanks. -- Best regards, Spinal
Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..
2009/10/1 Arthur D. spinal...@mail.ru I'm using a 4 years old system, and if I change that line, log out and in again, it changes the env variable and everything works (that means the behavior is probably caused by your configuration). If visudo is still using that configuration, maybe that's because some configuration file has precedence over environment variables. In that case, you gotta find that file and change it. Not an easy task, anyway... I just did an grep -r /bin/nano in /etc. LOL, I know there's a better way, I'm just too lazy to look for it... Man, running sudo visudo and just running visudo is not the same. Be careful. Nano is hardcoded in sudo's ebuild. OK, for the Nth time on this thread - it is all about *YOUR* configuration *IN YOUR SUDOERS FILE* - *by default*, sudo DOES NOT preserve the environmental variables of the current user - it *DOES NOT* replace them with variables from your profile, as *IT IS NOT RUNNING THE COMMAND IN AN INTERACTIVE SHELL LOGIN* - if you want that behaviour, try using sudo -i. To see *VERY EXPLICITLY* what you have been told *OVER AND OVER* on this thread, do the following: sudo env sudo -i env and look at the difference. Unless *YOU* configure sudo the *NOT* reset environmental variables, it is configured *BY DEFAULT* to blank out all but a very few - once again, *THIS INCLUDES THE EDITOR VARIABLE*. Once again, to fix the issue, do one of the 3 following procedures: 1 - Make all users preserve env variables when using sudo (least secure): sudo -i visudo #This will start a visudo session *with vim*, since you are using the -i option, which causes sudo to execute the command from an interactive shell (which will read all env variables as you have configured) comment out the line that reads: Defaultsenv_reset save, quit, and now your problem is solved. 2 - Make only users in the wheel group preserve env variables when using sudo (more secure): sudo -i visudo uncomment out the line that reads: #Defaults:%wheel!env_reset save, quit if your user is not already in the wheel group, add it into it: gpasswd -a username wheel then log out and log back in, and now your problem is solved. 3 - Make only the EDITOR env variable preserved when using sudo (even more secure): sudo -i visudo add the following line: Defaults env_delete-=EDITOR save, quit Now, there are *NUMEROUS* other ways that *YOU* can fix *YOUR CONFIG* to solve *YOUR PROBLEM* - *HOWEVER*, continually ignoring the numerous fixes that other users have replied to you with, and being hostile towards both devs *and* the user community (Proof? WTF is your problem? You come here asking for help, and then ignore the help you're given, and accuse a *very* long-time user and *very* respected member of the community of *lying* to you when he is trying to help you? Get your attitude fixed - seriously). I hope that helps get your problem (and your hostility) resolved. -James -- Best regards, Spinal
[gentoo-user] Re: {OT} External video card with RCA output?
On 2009-09-30, Neil Bothwick n...@digimed.co.uk wrote: That particular device also does S-Video, but you're never going to get wonderful quality when using a TV without a VGA or HDMI connection. S-Video should be a little better (not much). Hotels should provide VGA/DVI/HDMI inputs on TVs and advertise the fact. Might draw some of the geek business. :)
Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..
James Ausmus, I solved this proble long ago. I just curios, why it's not solved by portage? So the users should spend their time diggin in manuals to find why is sudo not working in Gentoo like it does in LFS or any other distro?.. Is this the Gentoo way or something? -- Best regards, Spinal
Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..
On Donnerstag 01 Oktober 2009, Arthur D. wrote: As the access to the bug was denied by the admin please use this link for discussion: http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-795069.html Thanks. wow, you must have been VERY obnoxious to have the bug closed for others. First time I see that. ... well.. vim users
Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..
On 1 Oct 2009, at 19:07, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: On Donnerstag 01 Oktober 2009, Arthur D. wrote: As the access to the bug was denied by the admin please use this link for discussion: http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-795069.html wow, you must have been VERY obnoxious to have the bug closed for others. First time I see that. I saw the bug earlier, must have been 30 minutes before it was closed. It didn't seem obnoxious as such, but the dev considered the bug closed and I think it kept getting reopened as others added comments. There was certainly a request in the bug please do not reopen as I do not want to make this bug devs only when I saw it, but all was polite. This is really a shame, as the discussion there was really more insightful that that here - lots of people here are echoing stuff that was already explained in the bug, and some of what is being echoed here is apparently wrong. It seemed to all be quite clearly explained in the responses to the bug report. Stroller.
Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..
On 1 Oct 2009, at 19:40, Stroller wrote: On 1 Oct 2009, at 19:07, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: On Donnerstag 01 Oktober 2009, Arthur D. wrote: As the access to the bug was denied by the admin please use this link for discussion: http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-795069.html wow, you must have been VERY obnoxious to have the bug closed for others. First time I see that. I saw the bug earlier, must have been 30 minutes before it was closed. It didn't seem obnoxious as such, but the dev considered the bug closed and I think it kept getting reopened as others added comments. There was certainly a request in the bug please do not reopen as I do not want to make this bug devs only when I saw it, but all was polite. This is really a shame, as the discussion there was really more insightful that that here - lots of people here are echoing stuff that was already explained in the bug, and some of what is being echoed here is apparently wrong. It seemed to all be quite clearly explained in the responses to the bug report. I meant to add, the Google cache seems to be missing most of these useful comments. :( http://209.85.229.132/search?q=cache:Ywvu1cqDSmcJ:bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi%3Fid%3D286017+gentoo+286017cd=1hl=enct=clnk or http://preview.tinyurl.com/yborwyw Stroller.
Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..
On Thu, 01 Oct 2009 21:10:19 +0300, Arthur D. wrote: James Ausmus, I solved this proble long ago. I just curios, So you're just ranting, you don't actually have a problem to solve and your question was rhetorical venting? why it's not solved by portage? What problem? That the default editor for visudo is set to the same as the default editor for the rest of the system? I don't see that as a problem. Lot's of people use Vim as their default editor. Gentoo lets you use any editor you like, even something as arcane as Vim... -- Neil Bothwick I'll try being nicer if you'll try being smarter. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..
On Thu, 01 Oct 2009 20:34:15 +0300, Arthur D. wrote: Man, running sudo visudo and just running visudo is not the same. True, but both call $EDITOR here. Be careful. Nano is hardcoded in sudo's ebuild. Yes, as a default when no other editor is specified. That means no $EDITOR variable visible to visudo and no default specified in /etc/sudoers. It does NOT mean that visudo is hard coded to use nano, merely that the Gentoo devs have set the fallback to something they know will be on a default Gentoo install. That seems a sensible decision to me. -- Neil Bothwick Why is the word abbreviation so long? signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..
2009/10/1 Arthur D. spinal...@mail.ru James Ausmus, I solved this proble long ago. I just curios, why it's not solved by portage? So the users should spend their time diggin in manuals to find why is sudo not working in Gentoo like it does in LFS or any other distro?.. Is this the Gentoo way or something? The Gentoo Way of doing things is to stick as close to vanilla upstream as possible, and to enable you to have complete control over your box, including configurations. In other words, if you want something configured differently than vanilla, you have to do the work. This being said, yes, the ebuild configures sudo to use /bin/nano as a fallback, if no other editors are specified to visudo (either via env vars or via the sudoers config file). This is a very sane thing to do by default, as nano is part of the default stage3 install, has no easy-to-screw-up dependencies, is very small, and, unless the user really knows what they are doing, is pretty much always guaranteed to be on a Gentoo system and usable - the key point being that the user really knows what they are doing, enough to specifically unmerge nano after emerging a different editor that satisfies the RDEPEND dependencies of virtual/editor (which, if you don't have any satisfactory editor installed, will pull in nano - it's small, it always works). There have been several times in the past where I have screwed up my system to the point that vi/vim will not run, and having nano around as an editor has saved me from having to reboot into a livecd. All this all this said, if you want to modify the sudo ebuild to either be smarter about specifying the fallback editor by looking at the available editors on the system, or have USE-based editor flags (probably not a good idea, as there are a lot of different console editors that will satisfy the virtual/editor RDEPEND, and switching preferred editors is so trivial that I don't think the Gentoo devs would be willing to justify another USE-expanded flag in make.conf), then the maintainer for the sudo package might consider. But, then again, since nano pretty much always works, it's trivial to change your configs to never use nano, and nano is pretty much always guaranteed to be there (unless, again, you really know what you're doing, in which case you should know how to modify your configs to disregard nano), they most likely wouldn't accept the change. But if you are passionate enough about not having to trivially modify your configs, then you can create an overlay with your modified ebuild, and be your own sudo ebuild maintainer. See all the flexibility Gentoo gives you? A trivial amount of config modification is an extremely small price to pay for all the power and flexibility (not to mention the extremely helpful devs and community, when you're willing to discuss and listen instead of just attack and provoke). -James -- Best regards, Spinal
Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..
On Thu, Oct 01, 2009 at 05:08:16PM +0100, Stroller wrote: On 1 Oct 2009, at 16:40, Stroller wrote: ... So it seems to me that you're right. It appears like maybe when `sudo` detects that it's running `visudo` it does seem to ignore $EDITOR. I, too, disagree with this behaviour. IMO the ebuild (-- with-editor=/bin/nano) take the editor from /etc/rc.conf, but I'm extremely curious why upstream makes this behaviour, anyway. Actually READING the bug actually showed a number of reasoned responses to the OP's complaint. I don't think you'll have much luck debating this: since upstream hardcodes it, it comes down largely to the nano-as-default-editor argument, which was first made in the Paleolithic era and which has been hotly debated without change since. I now appear unable to access that bug: http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=286017 Thanks for that. Stroller. I'm unable to read the bug as well, which I find bothersome (how many bugs have they hidden from users?). However, I'm also wondering why the ebuild doesn't make use of the EDITOR variable as was mentioned. This defaults to nano so it should work fine in a default install, and would avoid issues like this which seems to be an arguement that the dev(s) are trying to force specific programs on the users.
Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..
Arthur D. wrote: James Ausmus, I solved this proble long ago. I just curios, why it's not solved by portage? So the users should spend their time diggin in manuals to find why is sudo not working in Gentoo like it does in LFS or any other distro?.. Is this the Gentoo way or something? Perhaps you should find a distribution more suited to your abilities/expectations. Clearly, Gentoo is not for you. Neil http://www.neiljw.com
Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..
Am Donnerstag 01 Oktober 2009 21:32:56 schrieb forgottenwizard: However, I'm also wondering why the ebuild doesn't make use of the EDITOR variable as was mentioned. Because that's the worst thing to do. An ebuild's behaviour should not depend on env variables (like it's still the case for this stupid grub ebuild), because the user never get's to see this. There are other possibilities, i.e. something like LINGUAS or VIDEO_CARDS, which are immediately visible. Bye... Dirk
Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..
Perhaps you should find a distribution more suited to your abilities/expectations. Clearly, Gentoo is not for you. Really? Do you just give up and eat what people tell you to eat? I don't respect such people, really. I prefer to change the things, that I think are not right. Obtruding the default editor (not just fallbacking but hardcoding) is bad tendency for sure.
Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..
Dirk Heinrichs dirk.heinri...@online.de писал(а) в своём письме Thu, 01
Oct 2009 22:45:40 +0300:
Am Donnerstag 01 Oktober 2009 21:32:56 schrieb forgottenwizard:
However, I'm also wondering why the ebuild doesn't make use of the
EDITOR variable as was mentioned.
Because that's the worst thing to do. An ebuild's behaviour should not
depend
on env variables (like it's still the case for this stupid grub ebuild),
because the user never get's to see this.
Oh, really?
Snipped from sudo's ebuild:
econf --with-secure-path=${ROOTPATH}
What do you think about this line? There's an issue connected with that
string by the way.
You may want to check it:
http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=286014
The maintainer didn't even notice user about hardcoding ROOTPATH in sudo.
And, even more, he didn't check that manual page is saying that secure_path
is unset by default. And again I (the enduser) was forced to go check the
ebuilds
to see why sudo doesn't work as expected.
--
Best regards, Spinal
Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..
James Ausmus james.aus...@gmail.com писал(а) в своём письме Thu, 01 Oct 2009 22:04:38 +0300: The Gentoo Way of doing things is to stick as close to vanilla upstream as possible, and to enable you to have complete control over your box, including configurations. In other words, if you want something configured differently than vanilla, you have to do the work. James, what vanilla are you speaking about? I used vanilla sudo in my LinuxFromScratch system for several years and I nevert noticed that VIsudo tries to force me with some other editor than VI. Maybe it's called VIsudo because VIM is better alternative for VANILLA, hah? I think it's most reasonably to omit that hardcoding line from ebuild. I'm sure visudo will notice the user about what should be done to make it work as expected and that's better behaviour than complaining about missing /bin/nano, don't u think so?
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: gnome 2.26 stable?
On Thu, 2009-10-01 at 15:08 +0200, Stefan G. Weichinger wrote: Daniel Troeder schrieb: On Thu, 2009-10-01 at 06:48 +0200, Stefan G. Weichinger wrote: Daniel Troeder schrieb: Same here. After booting no sound ... in PA all looks good, after some searching I find alsamixer mutes things ... sigh ... but as long as there aren't more problems I can live with it. You can set things with alsamixer, and then (save and) restore them on (re)boot with /etc/init.d/alsasound Setup is in /etc/conf.d/alsasound. So I have to have both services running, alsasound AND pulseaudio ? I assumed I would have to disable alsasound when using PA (and disabled it ...) ALSA is not a service (it's just drivers and API). There is nothing running. It just loads your configuration (modules and volume levels). PA on the other hand does not have hardware drivers - it relies on ALSA or OSS for that. -- PGP key @ http://pgpkeys.pca.dfn.de/pks/lookup?search=0xBB9D4887op=get # gpg --recv-keys --keyserver hkp://subkeys.pgp.net 0xBB9D4887 signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..
On 10/1/2009 1:34 PM, Arthur D. wrote: I'm using a 4 years old system, and if I change that line, log out and in again, it changes the env variable and everything works (that means the behavior is probably caused by your configuration). If visudo is still using that configuration, maybe that's because some configuration file has precedence over environment variables. In that case, you gotta find that file and change it. Not an easy task, anyway... I just did an grep -r /bin/nano in /etc. LOL, I know there's a better way, I'm just too lazy to look for it... Man, running sudo visudo and just running visudo is not the same. Be careful. Nano is hardcoded in sudo's ebuild. Normal users cannot run visudo, so you must already be root to run it, or else use 'sudo visudo'. In the first case, it uses your EDITOR variable and there is no problem. In the second case, as already explained, it uses the first one of: * The EDITOR variable, if you've told sudo to keep it set * The default editor from the sudoers file, if you've set that * The default editor from the ebuild, which is nano. It is also not just visudo that has this behavior. Just run this: apollo ~ # sudo $EDITOR and if you haven't explicitly told sudo to preserve the EDITOR variable it will fail. As will any other program that reads EDITOR (or VISUAL, the other popular one). Point being, the behavior you're seeing isn't a bug in the sudo ebuild --- it's intended and intentional behavior of sudo itself. --Mike
Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..
On 10/1/2009 3:32 PM, forgottenwizard wrote: However, I'm also wondering why the ebuild doesn't make use of the EDITOR variable as was mentioned. This defaults to nano so it should work fine in a default install, and would avoid issues like this which seems to be an arguement that the dev(s) are trying to force specific programs on the users. I would be hesitant to use a user-specific variable like EDITOR to define the system-wide default on an ebuild. For example, what if my EDITOR was set to gvim or emacs when I installed sudo, then some other remote user tried to run visudo over ssh? --Mike
Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..
I would be hesitant to use a user-specific variable like EDITOR to define the system-wide default on an ebuild. For example, what if my EDITOR was set to gvim or emacs when I installed sudo, then some other remote user tried to run visudo over ssh? Consider that gvim will be just a fallback, as said before. And at least visudo will not complaint about missing gvim binary... The worst thing that can happen, it will just complaint about missing X server on the local side. Though, it's better than complaining about missing binary that was not supposed by enduser to be in place at all... It's like, oh, please you install nano, or I refuse to run. Obtrusively, no? -- Best regards, Spinal
Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..
On 1 Oct 2009, at 21:28, Mike Edenfield wrote: On 10/1/2009 3:32 PM, forgottenwizard wrote: However, I'm also wondering why the ebuild doesn't make use of the EDITOR variable as was mentioned. This defaults to nano so it should work fine in a default install, and would avoid issues like this which seems to be an arguement that the dev(s) are trying to force specific programs on the users. I would be hesitant to use a user-specific variable like EDITOR to define the system-wide default on an ebuild. For example, what if my EDITOR was set to gvim or emacs when I installed sudo, then some other remote user tried to run visudo over ssh? I think it should get the $EDITOR variable set in rc.conf Stroller.
Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..
On Donnerstag 01 Oktober 2009, Stroller wrote: On 1 Oct 2009, at 21:28, Mike Edenfield wrote: On 10/1/2009 3:32 PM, forgottenwizard wrote: However, I'm also wondering why the ebuild doesn't make use of the EDITOR variable as was mentioned. This defaults to nano so it should work fine in a default install, and would avoid issues like this which seems to be an arguement that the dev(s) are trying to force specific programs on the users. I would be hesitant to use a user-specific variable like EDITOR to define the system-wide default on an ebuild. For example, what if my EDITOR was set to gvim or emacs when I installed sudo, then some other remote user tried to run visudo over ssh? I think it should get the $EDITOR variable set in rc.conf Stroller. it is set in /etv/env.d - why is that not enough?
Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..
On 1 Oct 2009, at 22:01, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: On Donnerstag 01 Oktober 2009, Stroller wrote: On 1 Oct 2009, at 21:28, Mike Edenfield wrote: On 10/1/2009 3:32 PM, forgottenwizard wrote: However, I'm also wondering why the ebuild doesn't make use of the EDITOR variable as was mentioned. This defaults to nano so it should work fine in a default install, and would avoid issues like this which seems to be an arguement that the dev(s) are trying to force specific programs on the users. I would be hesitant to use a user-specific variable like EDITOR to define the system-wide default on an ebuild. For example, what if my EDITOR was set to gvim or emacs when I installed sudo, then some other remote user tried to run visudo over ssh? I think it should get the $EDITOR variable set in rc.conf it is set in /etv/env.d - why is that not enough? Uh, because the ebuild ignores that, too, and hard-codes it. Stroller.
Re: [gentoo-user] Anyone using sys-devel/gcc-4.4.1
Paul Hartman wrote: On Wed, Sep 30, 2009 at 11:50 PM, Dale rdalek1...@gmail.com mailto:rdalek1...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, I'm thinking about upgrading to gcc-4.4 and was wondering if anyone here is using it and if they are having any problems with it. I'm using a desktop system with KDE and OOo as the biggest packages. No servers or anything to worry about like apache. Also using 2.6.30-gentoo-r6 for my kernel. I'm using ~amd64 with same kernel, KDE4, gcc-4.4.1 and no problems. I'm even using the graphite USE flag the loop-related cflags. Nothing has blown up (yet). :) It has finished the emerge -e system so far. Not a single failure that I can see. Do have to update a config file tho. ;-) Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] Anyone using sys-devel/gcc-4.4.1
On 10/1/2009 6:26 PM, Dale wrote: It has finished the emerge -e system so far. Not a single failure that I can see. Do have to update a config file tho. ;-) In case anyone's keeping score, I've been using gcc-4.4 with the hardened profile (from the hardened-development overlay, of course) for a good while, and the only problems I've run into are hardened related. It has built OOo, Gnome, Gimp, Firefox, Emacs, and even CLISP with no apparent problems so far. --Mike
Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..
On Thu, 01 Oct 2009 23:45:51 +0300, Arthur D. wrote: It's like, oh, please you install nano, or I refuse to run. It's nothing like that at all. As long as you have an editor installed and configured correctly, visudo will quite happily run without nano. -- Neil Bothwick Help put the fun back in dysfunctional ! signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..
On Thu, 01 Oct 2009 23:12:36 +0300, Arthur D. wrote: I think it's most reasonably to omit that hardcoding line from ebuild. I think you need to re-read the ebuild. sudo depends on virtual/editor, not nano. Nowhere is nano hardcoded to be a requirement of sudo. On the other hand, if you went with the upstream settings, you'd need to add vim as a dependency, even for those that don't wish to use it. Forcing such things on the user is most definitely not the Gentoo Way. -- Neil Bothwick PCMCIA: People Can't Memorize Computer Industry Acronyms signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..
On 1 Oct 2009, at 23:53, Neil Bothwick wrote: On Thu, 01 Oct 2009 23:12:36 +0300, Arthur D. wrote: I think it's most reasonably to omit that hardcoding line from ebuild. I think you need to re-read the ebuild. sudo depends on virtual/ editor, not nano. Nowhere is nano hardcoded to be a requirement of sudo. On the other hand, if you went with the upstream settings, you'd need to add vim as a dependency, even for those that don't wish to use it. Forcing such things on the user is most definitely not the Gentoo Way. You appear to be demonstrating that you don't fully understand the problem: 828 ~ $ grep nano /usr/portage/app-admin/sudo/sudo-1.7.2_p1.ebuild # XXX: /bin/vi may not be available, make nano visudo's default. --with-editor=/bin/nano \ 829 ~ $ Stroller.
Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..
On Fri, 2 Oct 2009 00:54:50 +0100, Stroller wrote: I think you need to re-read the ebuild. sudo depends on virtual/ editor, not nano. Nowhere is nano hardcoded to be a requirement of sudo. On the other hand, if you went with the upstream settings, you'd need to add vim as a dependency, even for those that don't wish to use it. Forcing such things on the user is most definitely not the Gentoo Way. You appear to be demonstrating that you don't fully understand the problem: 828 ~ $ grep nano /usr/portage/app-admin/sudo/sudo-1.7.2_p1.ebuild # XXX: /bin/vi may not be available, make nano visudo's default. --with-editor=/bin/nano \ How so? That config option for sudo sets the DEFAULT editor, what to use if nothing is defined in the config file or environment variable. That's what both my text and the portion of the ebuild that you have quoted state. It in no way forces the use of nano in order to use visudo. If that were the case, DEPENDS would specify nano instead of accepting virtual/editor. visudo is not hard coded to use nano, or even $EDITOR, you can set it to use whatever you want. The ebuild merely makes sure the default tallies with the default for $EDITOR. -- Neil Bothwick I have plenty of talent and vision. I just don't give a damn. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..
On Thu, Oct 01, 2009 at 09:45:40PM +0200, Dirk Heinrichs wrote: Am Donnerstag 01 Oktober 2009 21:32:56 schrieb forgottenwizard: However, I'm also wondering why the ebuild doesn't make use of the EDITOR variable as was mentioned. Because that's the worst thing to do. An ebuild's behaviour should not depend on env variables (like it's still the case for this stupid grub ebuild), because the user never get's to see this. There are other possibilities, i.e. something like LINGUAS or VIDEO_CARDS, which are immediately visible. Bye... Dirk So instead it should set a non-existant editor to the configured default? Another variable in make.conf may be a reasonable fix for this though I'm sure someone will bitch about having to set $EDITOR twice on their system.
Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..
On Thu, Oct 01, 2009 at 12:04:38PM -0700, James Ausmus wrote: 2009/10/1 Arthur D. spinal...@mail.ru The Gentoo Way of doing things is to stick as close to vanilla upstream as possible, and to enable you to have complete control over your box, including configurations. In other words, if you want something configured differently than vanilla, you have to do the work. How many packages actually follow upstream without patching the source?
Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..
In response to the subject and the OP . . . YES! If you'd rather have your free OS accommodate your needs, then perhaps you should find/create one. Otherwise, shut up or make your suggestions less obnoxious (realizing the non-native English issue). The OP's position (from what I can tell) has been combative and less than conducive to progress. In the end, Gentoo is a distro that is free of charge and . . . well. . . . pretty good. Non-devs are welcome to make suggestions, but not demands. If you'd rather have vim (or easier access to it), then go somewhere else. Nano is the editor of (default)choice. IF it is REALLY a situation where Gentoo is not providing its users with a choice of editor and this is a problem for you, then use something else. To claim that I try to change things that are 'wrong' (I fight for injustice) is silly, in this context. This is not civil rights . . . this is not genocide . . . this is an OS distro that is free and MAY fit your needs. To complain about it on the scale that the OP has, is just (again) SILLY! (you are not a saint) To all of those who took the time to put this joker into his/her place, I applaud you. It's amazing how often subtly fails. On Thu, Oct 1, 2009 at 7:45 PM, forgottenwizard phrexianrea...@hushmail.com wrote: On Thu, Oct 01, 2009 at 12:04:38PM -0700, James Ausmus wrote: 2009/10/1 Arthur D. spinal...@mail.ru The Gentoo Way of doing things is to stick as close to vanilla upstream as possible, and to enable you to have complete control over your box, including configurations. In other words, if you want something configured differently than vanilla, you have to do the work. How many packages actually follow upstream without patching the source?
Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..
On Thu, 2009-10-01 at 20:55 -0500, Neal Hogan wrote: To claim that I try to change things that are 'wrong' (I fight for injustice) is silly, in this context. This is not civil rights . . . this is not genocide . . . this is an OS distro that is free and MAY fit your needs. To complain about it on the scale that the OP has, is just (again) SILLY! (you are not a saint) Of course he is not a saint. He is a martyr!
Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..
You appear to be demonstrating that you don't fully understand the problem: 828 ~ $ grep nano /usr/portage/app-admin/sudo/sudo-1.7.2_p1.ebuild # XXX: /bin/vi may not be available, make nano visudo's default. --with-editor=/bin/nano \ How so? That config option for sudo sets the DEFAULT editor, what to use if nothing is defined in the config file or environment variable. That's what both my text and the portion of the ebuild that you have quoted state. It in no way forces the use of nano in order to use visudo. If that were the case, DEPENDS would specify nano instead of accepting virtual/editor. Agree. There's no need in making vim as depends. But in other hand in vanilla sudo package there's VI hardcoded by default. And MOST if not ALL users who have VIM installed on their shiny Gentoo systems expect that VIsudo will behave as it did for long tim ago. There are historical (or some other) reasons for making VI default editor for this utility. It's like they don't respect not only endusers favours but the developers' too, no? WHY NOT CHECK if vim binary is in place and ONLY THEN (when it's obviously absent) hardcode the Gentoo Best Award of Choice Editor? I repeat once more. Every user who has VIM installed on theirs systems is forced to do extra configuration, to make sudo work as expected, just because someone prefer other editor and thinks that vanilla choice is bad. Isn't that just stupid? -- Best regards, Spinal
