Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..
On Freitag 02 Oktober 2009, Arthur D. wrote: You appear to be demonstrating that you don't fully understand the problem: 828 ~ $ grep nano /usr/portage/app-admin/sudo/sudo-1.7.2_p1.ebuild # XXX: /bin/vi may not be available, make nano visudo's default. --with-editor=/bin/nano \ How so? That config option for sudo sets the DEFAULT editor, what to use if nothing is defined in the config file or environment variable. That's what both my text and the portion of the ebuild that you have quoted state. It in no way forces the use of nano in order to use visudo. If that were the case, DEPENDS would specify nano instead of accepting virtual/editor. Agree. There's no need in making vim as depends. But in other hand in vanilla sudo package there's VI hardcoded by default. And MOST if not ALL users who have VIM installed on their shiny Gentoo systems expect that VIsudo will behave as it did for long tim ago. There are historical (or some other) reasons for making VI default editor for this utility. It's like they don't respect not only endusers favours but the developers' too, no? WHY NOT CHECK if vim binary is in place and ONLY THEN (when it's obviously absent) hardcode the Gentoo Best Award of Choice Editor? I repeat once more. Every user who has VIM installed on theirs systems is forced to do extra configuration, to make sudo work as expected, just because someone prefer other editor and thinks that vanilla choice is bad. Isn't that just stupid? why is it always vim users who get their panties in a knot about nothing? just set EDITOR, you are done. You might be surprised to know, that most people do not have vim installed. But you are forcing others to adhere to something? Things change. Maybe vim users should realize that too
Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..
Am 02.10.2009 07:29, schrieb Arthur D.: I repeat once more. Every user who has VIM installed on theirs systems is forced to do extra configuration, to make sudo work as expected, just because someone prefer other editor and thinks that vanilla choice is bad. Isn't that just stupid? I have VIM installed, set as default editor via EDITOR=/usr/bin/vim in my /root/bashrc. If I run VISUDO as root (I never use sudo so all there is vanilla and so my user can't use sudo visudo) runs it with VIM. I really don't see your problem. All that was needed here on my box was setting VIM as my editor of choice (I preferer to do that per-user so no setting of anything in rc or /etc/env.d) and VISUDO accepted it. No magic involved. Greetings Sebastian
Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..
On Fri, 2009-10-02 at 08:06 +0200, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: why is it always vim users who get their panties in a knot about nothing? You are likely wrong about this. I'm willing to bet that a lot of people, even people responding to this thread, are vim users. However most of us know how to set an environment variable. What you are witnessing is one person trolling and purporting that it is always vim users. just set EDITOR, you are done. You might be surprised to know, that most people do not have vim installed. But you are forcing others to adhere to something? Things change. Maybe vim users should realize that too I've actually never heard of any veteran Gentoo users who use vim complain about anything. Gentoo is *very* friendly to vim, just look at /usr/portage/app-vim. Maybe I've been completely blind but in the 7 years I've been using Gentoo this is the first time I've heard a vim user get their panties in a knot and this can be easily discounted as trollage. So perhaps your apparent frustration is misdirected?
Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..
I really don't see your problem. All that was needed here on my box was setting VIM as my editor of choice (I preferer to do that per-user so no setting of anything in rc or /etc/env.d) and VISUDO accepted it. No magic involved. Sebastian, I already fixed the problem for my local host. But I know other users have same problem. That's strange for me that you first login as root to use visudo program. What is the matter of having sudo then? Once again, try running sudo visudo as unprivileged user (that's right, sudo is used to make root stuff without logging with root ;-) ) -- Best regards, Spinal
Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..
2009/10/2 Arthur D. spinal...@mail.ru: You appear to be demonstrating that you don't fully understand the problem: 828 ~ $ grep nano /usr/portage/app-admin/sudo/sudo-1.7.2_p1.ebuild # XXX: /bin/vi may not be available, make nano visudo's default. --with-editor=/bin/nano \ How so? That config option for sudo sets the DEFAULT editor, what to use if nothing is defined in the config file or environment variable. That's what both my text and the portion of the ebuild that you have quoted state. It in no way forces the use of nano in order to use visudo. If that were the case, DEPENDS would specify nano instead of accepting virtual/editor. Agree. There's no need in making vim as depends. But in other hand in vanilla sudo package there's VI hardcoded by default. And MOST if not ALL users who have VIM installed on their shiny Gentoo systems expect that VIsudo will behave as it did for long tim ago. There are historical (or some other) reasons for making VI default editor for this utility. It's like they don't respect not only endusers favours but the developers' too, no? WHY NOT CHECK if vim binary is in place and ONLY THEN (when it's obviously absent) hardcode the Gentoo Best Award of Choice Editor? I repeat once more. Every user who has VIM installed on theirs systems is forced to do extra configuration, to make sudo work as expected, just because someone prefer other editor and thinks that vanilla choice is bad. Isn't that just stupid? -- Best regards, Spinal And everyone who has emacs has to do extra work too, in order to get sudo to respect their chosen editor. Changing the default fallback for visudo when the environment variable isn't defined will add in further dependencies and/or put a dependency on a package that can't be reasonably assumed to be on the system in the near future. You're not being forced to do more work because you use vim, you're doing more work because you remove the sane default editor from the system. As does everyone removing nano and using pico and... how many others? Go to LFS, build it all, build emacs, set EDITOR to emacs, and run sudo visudo. Please. I have a rather good guess that you'll be, amazingly, using the default that was set at build time for the sane default editor, in LFS's case vim (whether called by that or the vi symlink to it), that the distro creators chose. Or if you vary from the instructions, choosing some other editor at sudo's build time, you'll be running that. The ebuild does the logical thing in choosing an editor that a) is in place by default and b) is less likely to be on the system or off the system by the admin's whim. Most leave the default in place. I suppose, really, the only more guaranteed editor would be busybox vi ... because VERY few go about breaking the default tools built into busybox... but what would that leave the many who use nano by default, as... it IS the distro default, to do? Compared to nano, vi (let alone a bare minimal vi like is in busybox) is a pain to use for a person who's never seen it before. Also, randomly, I could be wrong here, not being a sudo user myself outside of my ubuntu laptop... but if you look into sudo ... it drops the environment, aside from those chosen specifically to be preserved by root, through its configuration, as a security measure. It's not an ebuild problem, it's not a 'defaults' problem. From what you seem to see as 'proper' behavior for sudo, it's an upstream security decision problem. -- Poison [BLX] Joshua M. Murphy Yet another vim user.
Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..
On Fri, Oct 2, 2009 at 2:30 AM, Joshua Murphy poiso...@gmail.com wrote: 2009/10/2 Arthur D. spinal...@mail.ru: You appear to be demonstrating that you don't fully understand the problem: 828 ~ $ grep nano /usr/portage/app-admin/sudo/sudo-1.7.2_p1.ebuild # XXX: /bin/vi may not be available, make nano visudo's default. --with-editor=/bin/nano \ How so? That config option for sudo sets the DEFAULT editor, what to use if nothing is defined in the config file or environment variable. That's what both my text and the portion of the ebuild that you have quoted state. It in no way forces the use of nano in order to use visudo. If that were the case, DEPENDS would specify nano instead of accepting virtual/editor. Agree. There's no need in making vim as depends. But in other hand in vanilla sudo package there's VI hardcoded by default. And MOST if not ALL users who have VIM installed on their shiny Gentoo systems expect that VIsudo will behave as it did for long tim ago. There are historical (or some other) reasons for making VI default editor for this utility. It's like they don't respect not only endusers favours but the developers' too, no? WHY NOT CHECK if vim binary is in place and ONLY THEN (when it's obviously absent) hardcode the Gentoo Best Award of Choice Editor? I repeat once more. Every user who has VIM installed on theirs systems is forced to do extra configuration, to make sudo work as expected, just because someone prefer other editor and thinks that vanilla choice is bad. Isn't that just stupid? -- Best regards, Spinal And everyone who has emacs has to do extra work too, in order to get sudo to respect their chosen editor. Changing the default fallback for visudo when the environment variable isn't defined will add in further dependencies and/or put a dependency on a package that can't be reasonably assumed to be on the system in the near future. You're not being forced to do more work because you use vim, you're doing more work because you remove the sane default editor from the system. As does everyone removing nano and using pico and... how many others? Go to LFS, build it all, build emacs, set EDITOR to emacs, and run sudo visudo. Please. I have a rather good guess that you'll be, amazingly, using the default that was set at build time for the sane default editor, in LFS's case vim (whether called by that or the vi symlink to it), that the distro creators chose. Or if you vary from the instructions, choosing some other editor at sudo's build time, you'll be running that. The ebuild does the logical thing in choosing an editor that a) is in place by default and b) is less likely to be on the system or off the system by the admin's whim. Most leave the default in place. I suppose, really, the only more guaranteed editor would be busybox vi ... because VERY few go about breaking the default tools built into busybox... but what would that leave the many who use nano by default, as... it IS the distro default, to do? Compared to nano, vi (let alone a bare minimal vi like is in busybox) is a pain to use for a person who's never seen it before. Also, randomly, I could be wrong here, not being a sudo user myself outside of my ubuntu laptop... but if you look into sudo ... it drops the environment, aside from those chosen specifically to be preserved by root, through its configuration, as a security measure. It's not an ebuild problem, it's not a 'defaults' problem. From what you seem to see as 'proper' behavior for sudo, it's an upstream security decision problem. -- Poison [BLX] Joshua M. Murphy Yet another vim user. Oh! and 2 more things. 1) In answer to the subject-posed question (in case it wasn't clear in my post just above)... yes. 2) And... your problem shouldn't be with the default set in the ebuild, but rather, the lack of a sed line in the ebuild to adjust sudo's initial configuration to retain, at the least, the EDITOR environment variable. That would, were the answer to your subject-posed question anything other than an unequivocal yes, be the most universal resolution to the problem that you seem to think exists in the setup as it is now. No ebuild should depend on an environment variable like EDITOR at build time if they can, even remotely, avoid it. That would require a rebuild every time the environment variable changed and... that would be rather jarring to say the least. -- Poison [BLX] Joshua M. Murphy
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: gnome 2.26 stable?
Daniel Troeder schrieb: ALSA is not a service (it's just drivers and API). There is nothing running. It just loads your configuration (modules and volume levels). PA on the other hand does not have hardware drivers - it relies on ALSA or OSS for that. thanks, already activated it successfully ;)
Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..
Go to LFS, build it all, build emacs, set EDITOR to emacs, and run sudo visudo. Please. I have a rather good guess that you'll be, amazingly, using the default that was set at build time for the sane default editor, in LFS's case vim (whether called by that or the vi symlink to it), that the distro creators chose. That's right. But there are some reasons why visudo called so (do you see that short VI?), so the user should expect it to run using vim if it's present on system and the sudo is configured by default. That was put-up by sudo creator in vanilla package, though it's configured in compile time. OK. That default behaviour was changed. Without any notification, except bash comment, in sudo ebuild. Do you consider that to be right? -- Best regards, Spinal
Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..
2009/10/2 Arthur D. spinal...@mail.ru: Go to LFS, build it all, build emacs, set EDITOR to emacs, and run sudo visudo. Please. I have a rather good guess that you'll be, amazingly, using the default that was set at build time for the sane default editor, in LFS's case vim (whether called by that or the vi symlink to it), that the distro creators chose. That's right. But there are some reasons why visudo called so (do you see that short VI?), so the user should expect it to run using vim if it's present on system and the sudo is configured by default. That was put-up by sudo creator in vanilla package, though it's configured in compile time. OK. That default behaviour was changed. Without any notification, except bash comment, in sudo ebuild. Do you consider that to be right? -- Best regards, Spinal Since the upstream default and the, clearly stated multiple places (and equally clearly stated chances of it changing in the near future), distro default differ, yes. It shouldn't be strange that a package, when it's out of options (and given the stripping of environment done by sudo itself, it very much is in the given circumstances), uses the distro-defined defaults. I repeat myself from before... every Gentoo system has vi, there just isn't a direct symlink with that name to busybox. And.. it's called so because it uses a visual editor, which is all vi in vi/vim means and I'd presume is all it really means in visudo's name. That the package upstream uses vi by default goes back to the days when the two base options were vi and emacs... and let's face it, visudo is far easier to type than emacssudo. Nano is a visual editor, emacs, joe, pico.. all of those are too. Interestingly, it *could* use a line, rather than visual, editor, if that were set as the default... but I get the feeling nearly everyone here would be wholly lost using ed (a perfectly valid and capable editor, incidentally). As a counter argument to it defaulting to using vi if vi/vim is installed ... if I run a server with 50 users, 48 of which use emacs, one of which uses vim, and I choose to use pico, why should I be forced to use vi for it by default just because I have vim to satisfy someone else's desires? -- Poison [BLX] Joshua M. Murphy
Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?.. UPDATE
if I run a server with 50 users, 48 of which use emacs, one of which uses vim, and I choose to use pico, why should I be forced to use vi for it by default just because I have vim to satisfy someone else's desires? That's really funny, Joshua. Do you provide 50 users of your company with access to visudo? LOL For thouse who are interested in the ticket particulars, you may review it's copy here: http://www.rootshell.be/~spinal/gentoo_bug_report/286017.html I remind you, that an admin restricted the access to that ticket after users started to vote for it. -- Best regards, Spinal
Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..
Joshua Murphy poiso...@gmail.com писал(а) в своём письме Fri, 02 Oct 2009 09:58:33 +0300: every Gentoo system has vi, there just isn't a direct symlink with that name to busybox. Wow, that's a really great problem. $ ln `which busybox` vi $ ./vi -- Best regards, Spinal
Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..
On Fri, 02 Oct 2009 08:29:30 +0300, Arthur D. wrote: I repeat once more. Every user who has VIM installed on theirs systems is forced to do extra configuration, to make sudo work as expected, just because someone prefer other editor and thinks that vanilla choice is bad. Isn't that just stupid? In your world, every user who does not have vim installed has to do extra work, but I guess non-vim users don't count. You are not trying to fix your problem, you are only taking the NIMBY approach. -- Neil Bothwick Everything's back to normal. Damn. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..
On Thu, 1 Oct 2009 19:34:25 -0500, forgottenwizard wrote: So instead it should set a non-existant editor to the configured default? Nano is not non-existent by default. Another variable in make.conf may be a reasonable fix for this though I'm sure someone will bitch about having to set $EDITOR twice on their system. A more sensible approach would be for the ebuild to check which ebuild satisfies the virtual/editor dependency and set that. If the OP really cared about this problem he'd investigate providing such solutions instead of ranting about how Gentoo does not use his editor of choice by default. -- Neil Bothwick .sig a .sog of sixpence. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..
On Fri, 02 Oct 2009 09:44:26 +0300, Arthur D. wrote: That's right. But there are some reasons why visudo called so (do you see that short VI?), What are those reasons? Do they apply to Gentoo? Is it possible that this is simply because the original coder used vi? Or perhaps to maintain the naming convention or vipw etc? Neither of those are reasons to force installation on a non-standard editor. -- Neil Bothwick Try to be the best of whatever you are, even if what you are is no good. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?.. UPDATE
On Fri, 02 Oct 2009 10:17:26 +0300, Arthur D. wrote: I remind you, that an admin restricted the access to that ticket after users started to vote for it. Unless the reason for restriction was stated, your implication of causality is invalid. -- Neil Bothwick Plagarism prohibited. Derive carefully. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..
A more sensible approach would be for the ebuild to check which ebuild satisfies the virtual/editor dependency and set that. Not clever. What if there are several editors installed? And, yes, I prefer VIM. And I don't like when the package which vanilla defaults were always to be using vim as editor is overwritten without any notifications and causing the enduser to investigate how to fix that. -- Best regards, Spinal
Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..
On Fri, 02 Oct 2009 11:15:09 +0300, Arthur D. wrote: A more sensible approach would be for the ebuild to check which ebuild satisfies the virtual/editor dependency and set that. Not clever. What if there are several editors installed? Choose the most appropriate from a defined list. And, yes, I prefer VIM. And I don't like when the package which vanilla defaults were always to be using vim as editor is overwritten without any notifications and causing the enduser to investigate how to fix that. Would you have the same argument if the vanilla default was emacs and the ebuild changed it to vim? All you're complaining about is that a distro that expects users to configure everything for themselves is expecting you to add one line to a config file. This problem could also be fixed by USE flags. Instead of whining why not submit a patch that has the ebuild respect the vanilla USE flag? -- Neil Bothwick Everybody needs a little love sometime; stop hacking and fall in love! signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..
Neil Bothwick n...@digimed.co.uk писал(а) в своём письме Fri, 02 Oct 2009 11:23:38 +0300: This problem could also be fixed by USE flags. Instead of whining why not submit a patch that has the ebuild respect the vanilla USE flag? Thanks for the idea. I will try this. -- Best regards, Spinal
Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..
On Fri, Oct 02, 2009 at 09:07:20AM +0100, Neil Bothwick wrote: On Thu, 1 Oct 2009 19:34:25 -0500, forgottenwizard wrote: So instead it should set a non-existant editor to the configured default? Nano is not non-existent by default. It isn't always on the users sytem. Providing a non-existent default seems quite broken to me. Another variable in make.conf may be a reasonable fix for this though I'm sure someone will bitch about having to set $EDITOR twice on their system. A more sensible approach would be for the ebuild to check which ebuild satisfies the virtual/editor dependency and set that. If the OP really cared about this problem he'd investigate providing such solutions instead of ranting about how Gentoo does not use his editor of choice by default. -- Neil Bothwick .sig a .sog of sixpence. The problem there would be if multiple editors provide virtual/editor (such as on my system, which has both vim and ed installed). The ebuild trying to automagically select what should be the default editor is a bad idea, if not just horrible.
Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..
Am 02.10.2009 08:25, schrieb Arthur D.: I really don't see your problem. All that was needed here on my box was setting VIM as my editor of choice (I preferer to do that per-user so no setting of anything in rc or /etc/env.d) and VISUDO accepted it. No magic involved. Sebastian, I already fixed the problem for my local host. But I know other users have same problem. That's strange for me that you first login as root to use visudo program. What is the matter of having sudo then? Maybe you should READ what people write BEFORE you answer. I have written that I started it from root because I never before used sudo on my system so that my non-root-user can't use sudo visudo. Once again, try running sudo visudo as unprivileged user (that's right, sudo is used to make root stuff without logging with root ;-) ) Ok, I comment out %wheel ALL=(ALL) ALL so that my user could use sudo visudo. Hey.. Great.. It started visudo with VIM. So again.. What are you complaining about?? Greetings Sebastian
Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..
Once again, try running sudo visudo as unprivileged user (that's right, sudo is used to make root stuff without logging with root ;-) ) Ok, I comment out %wheel ALL=(ALL) ALL so that my user could use sudo visudo. Hey.. Great.. It started visudo with VIM. So again.. What are you complaining about?? Sebastian, I repeat especially for you once more: http://www.rootshell.be/~spinal/gentoo_bug_report/286017.html Just check what you did wrong. P.S. BTW, I send the patch for sudo to respect vanilla USE flag. The description you will find on link above.
Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..
On Fri, Oct 02, 2009 at 09:23:38AM +0100, Neil Bothwick wrote: On Fri, 02 Oct 2009 11:15:09 +0300, Arthur D. wrote: And, yes, I prefer VIM. And I don't like when the package which vanilla defaults were always to be using vim as editor is overwritten without any notifications and causing the enduser to investigate how to fix that. Would you have the same argument if the vanilla default was emacs and the ebuild changed it to vim? All you're complaining about is that a distro that expects users to configure everything for themselves is expecting you to add one line to a config file. This problem could also be fixed by USE flags. Instead of whining why not submit a patch that has the ebuild respect the vanilla USE flag? USE flags is nice, except ls /usr/portage/app-editors/ | wc -l returns 76 packages (give or take a file or two). So we are looking at, uh, ~75 USE flags for the sudo ebuild, no counting the editors which aren't in app-editor (like ed, which resides in sys-apps instead of app-editor). The number of USE flags would be quite impressive for such a small package.
Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..
Am 02.10.2009 10:52, schrieb forgottenwizard: On Fri, Oct 02, 2009 at 09:07:20AM +0100, Neil Bothwick wrote: On Thu, 1 Oct 2009 19:34:25 -0500, forgottenwizard wrote: So instead it should set a non-existant editor to the configured default? Nano is not non-existent by default. It isn't always on the users sytem. Providing a non-existent default seems quite broken to me. By DEFAULT it is on EVERY Gentoo-system. If you CHOOSE to remove the default then you have to be prepared that something may be broken after that. You could never be certain that anything set as default is existent on the system. Even if a distro would remove the possibility to uninstall the default with the help of the package manager so is there always rm So every default could be a non-existent default. Greetings Sebastian
Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..
Arthur D. wrote: Once again, try running sudo visudo as unprivileged user (that's right, sudo is used to make root stuff without logging with root ;-) ) Ok, I comment out %wheel ALL=(ALL) ALL so that my user could use sudo visudo. Hey.. Great.. It started visudo with VIM. So again.. What are you complaining about?? Sebastian, I repeat especially for you once more: http://www.rootshell.be/~spinal/gentoo_bug_report/286017.html Just check what you did wrong. P.S. BTW, I send the patch for sudo to respect vanilla USE flag. The description you will find on link above. The link to the patch doesn't work. It did give a nice 404 error tho. ;-) Got to love those. Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..
On Fri, Oct 02, 2009 at 11:08:08AM +0200, Sebastian Be?ler wrote: Am 02.10.2009 10:52, schrieb forgottenwizard: It isn't always on the users sytem. Providing a non-existent default seems quite broken to me. By DEFAULT it is on EVERY Gentoo-system. If you CHOOSE to remove the default then you have to be prepared that something may be broken after that. You could never be certain that anything set as default is existent on the system. Even if a distro would remove the possibility to uninstall the default with the help of the package manager so is there always rm So every default could be a non-existent default. So then I should keep everything installed on my system just in case it might break a package in the future? There have been ways mentioned that this can be solved. If nothing else there should be a warning (and possibly a dependency) that nano IS the default editor for sudo, whether you like it or not.
Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..
Am 02.10.2009 11:04, schrieb forgottenwizard: The number of USE flags would be quite impressive for such a small package. a vanilla-flag could be possible that disables every changes to the upstream-package. It even exists atm for a number of packages metat...@darkstation ~ $ euse -i vanilla global use flags (searching: vanilla) [-] vanilla - Do not add extra patches which change default behaviour; DO NOT USE THIS ON A GLOBAL SCALE as the severity of the meaning changes drastically Greetings Sebastian
Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..
On Fri, 2 Oct 2009 04:04:30 -0500, forgottenwizard wrote: This problem could also be fixed by USE flags. Instead of whining why not submit a patch that has the ebuild respect the vanilla USE flag? USE flags is nice, except ls /usr/portage/app-editors/ | wc -l returns 76 packages (give or take a file or two). So we are looking at, uh, ~75 USE flags for the sudo ebuild, no counting the editors which aren't in app-editor (like ed, which resides in sys-apps instead of app-editor). It helps if you read what you are replying to. I suggested the use of one, existing, USE flag, to address this trivial issue. -- Neil Bothwick Electricians DO IT until it Hz... signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..
On Fri, 2 Oct 2009 03:52:24 -0500, forgottenwizard wrote: Nano is not non-existent by default. It isn't always on the users sytem. Providing a non-existent default seems quite broken to me. That's true of every editor, so you have to choose the one that is most likely to be there, the one that is installed for the stage tarballs and is there unless the user has taken specific steps to remove it. A more sensible approach would be for the ebuild to check which ebuild satisfies the virtual/editor dependency and set that. If the OP really cared about this problem he'd investigate providing such solutions instead of ranting about how Gentoo does not use his editor of choice by default. The problem there would be if multiple editors provide virtual/editor (such as on my system, which has both vim and ed installed). The ebuild trying to automagically select what should be the default editor is a bad idea, if not just horrible. You can't have it both ways. You want the program to default to an editor that is guaranteed to be there, at least at installation time, yet the only one that satisfies that is virtual/editor. It's only a default, it only has to be available the first time you run the program, whether it's your favourite editor or not. If you only want to use default configurations without making any changes to suit yourself, I suggest you may be better served by a distro that is a little browner. -- Neil Bothwick Gravity isn't easy, but it's the law. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..
On Fri, Oct 02, 2009 at 11:21:08AM +0200, Sebastian Be?ler wrote: Am 02.10.2009 11:04, schrieb forgottenwizard: The number of USE flags would be quite impressive for such a small package. a vanilla-flag could be possible that disables every changes to the upstream-package. It even exists atm for a number of packages metat...@darkstation ~ $ euse -i vanilla global use flags (searching: vanilla) [-] vanilla - Do not add extra patches which change default behaviour; DO NOT USE THIS ON A GLOBAL SCALE as the severity of the meaning changes drastically Greetings Sebastian insert emacs user whining Thats an option, but seems to be a poor one. All that will do is let you use either vi(m) or nano for the default, which for emacs users will be no diffrent than the current problem.
Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..
On Fri, Oct 02, 2009 at 10:29:08AM +0100, Neil Bothwick wrote: On Fri, 2 Oct 2009 03:52:24 -0500, forgottenwizard wrote: Nano is not non-existent by default. It isn't always on the users sytem. Providing a non-existent default seems quite broken to me. That's true of every editor, so you have to choose the one that is most likely to be there, the one that is installed for the stage tarballs and is there unless the user has taken specific steps to remove it. Or you could try to find a suitable default intelligently instead of blindly compiling in a default that may or may not exist. Worse still is blindly doing so without telling the user. A more sensible approach would be for the ebuild to check which ebuild satisfies the virtual/editor dependency and set that. If the OP really cared about this problem he'd investigate providing such solutions instead of ranting about how Gentoo does not use his editor of choice by default. The problem there would be if multiple editors provide virtual/editor (such as on my system, which has both vim and ed installed). The ebuild trying to automagically select what should be the default editor is a bad idea, if not just horrible. You can't have it both ways. You want the program to default to an editor that is guaranteed to be there, at least at installation time, yet the only one that satisfies that is virtual/editor. It's only a default, it only has to be available the first time you run the program, whether it's your favourite editor or not. If you only want to use default configurations without making any changes to suit yourself, I suggest you may be better served by a distro that is a little browner. And if you, say, have two editors installed that satisfy virtual/editor?
Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..
Am 02.10.2009 11:29, schrieb forgottenwizard: insert emacs user whining Thats an option, but seems to be a poor one. All that will do is let you use either vi(m) or nano for the default, which for emacs users will be no diffrent than the current problem. joke If you use emacs then you are to far away to be helped ;-) /joke Then maybe a custom_editor-flag that inserts Defaultsenv_keep += EDITOR VISUAL PAGER to /etc/sudoers With that even emacs users would be satisfied. Greetings Sebastian
[gentoo-user] Re: device eth0 does not exist
Thanks. Depmod yielded no results. At least as far as I can tell. I tried with ... Code: # depmod -a ; depmod -e -F As I recall Note: the kernel developers warn that you should not configure or compile your kernel as root. -http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-539024.html And that that there have been bugs in the build process which caused files in the /dev tree to be deleted if run as root I remember distinctly configuring and compiling my kernels as root, but ... Code: $ make make modules_install snip (verbos output attached) rm: cannot remove `include/config/kernel.release': Permission denied make: *** [include/config/kernel.release] Error 1 ... always failed. You always install as root right? So I just carried on compiling as root. Could this be part of the problem? Do I need to compile as user? I don't seem to be able. _ Get your FREE, LinuxWaves.com Email Now! -- http://www.LinuxWaves.com Join Linux Discussions! -- http://Community.LinuxWaves.com make-debugg-user Description: Binary data
Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..
Am 02.10.2009 11:40, schrieb Sebastian Beßler: Am 02.10.2009 11:29, schrieb forgottenwizard: insert emacs user whining Thats an option, but seems to be a poor one. All that will do is let you use either vi(m) or nano for the default, which for emacs users will be no diffrent than the current problem. joke If you use emacs then you are to far away to be helped ;-) /joke Then maybe a custom_editor-flag that inserts Defaultsenv_keep += EDITOR VISUAL PAGER to /etc/sudoers With that even emacs users would be satisfied. After thinking about that.. To use such a flag the admin has to know what it does and then he can also add Defaultsenv_keep += EDITOR VISUAL PAGER to /etc/sudoers instead of adding app-editors/vim custom-editor to /etc/portage/package.use So there is no need for such a use-flag because it don't saves any work. Adding a line is adding a line. Greetings Sebastian
Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..
On Freitag 02 Oktober 2009, forgottenwizard wrote: On Fri, Oct 02, 2009 at 10:29:08AM +0100, Neil Bothwick wrote: On Fri, 2 Oct 2009 03:52:24 -0500, forgottenwizard wrote: Nano is not non-existent by default. It isn't always on the users sytem. Providing a non-existent default seems quite broken to me. That's true of every editor, so you have to choose the one that is most likely to be there, the one that is installed for the stage tarballs and is there unless the user has taken specific steps to remove it. Or you could try to find a suitable default intelligently instead of blindly compiling in a default that may or may not exist. Worse still is blindly doing so without telling the user. A more sensible approach would be for the ebuild to check which ebuild satisfies the virtual/editor dependency and set that. If the OP really cared about this problem he'd investigate providing such solutions instead of ranting about how Gentoo does not use his editor of choice by default. The problem there would be if multiple editors provide virtual/editor (such as on my system, which has both vim and ed installed). The ebuild trying to automagically select what should be the default editor is a bad idea, if not just horrible. You can't have it both ways. You want the program to default to an editor that is guaranteed to be there, at least at installation time, yet the only one that satisfies that is virtual/editor. It's only a default, it only has to be available the first time you run the program, whether it's your favourite editor or not. If you only want to use default configurations without making any changes to suit yourself, I suggest you may be better served by a distro that is a little browner. And if you, say, have two editors installed that satisfy virtual/editor? then the more sensible one should be used by default. Lets see: nano, built in help, easy to use, small, good enough for most edits. vim, whatthefuckisthatcrap? how do I quit this monstrum? what happened now? MODES? nano wins, hands down. Because every idiot can use it long enough to edit the files needed to make vim default.
Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?.. UPDATE
OK. Now the latest update. 1) Here's a copy (just a copy, all links are useless) of bug report done by me. I was forced to copy that page to hosting because package maintainer restricted access to users who began to vote for this bug. +-==+ | http://www.rootshell.be/~spinal/gentoo_bug_report/286017.html | +===+ 2) Here's a link for the patch, that I attached to the patch in my last post: +===+ | http://www.rootshell.be/~spinal/gentoo_bug_report/sudo-resp-vanilla.patch | +===+ 3) And now the most interesting. I was banned by maintainer. Now I cannot access the ticket too. == Access Denied You are not authorized to access bug #286017. Please press Back and try again. == I think the maintainer was not aware about the bug report was copied to the hosting and about my posts in mail-list. Any ideas?.. -- Best regards, Spinal
Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..
On Fri, Oct 02, 2009 at 11:40:33AM +0200, Sebastian Be?ler wrote: Am 02.10.2009 11:29, schrieb forgottenwizard: insert emacs user whining Thats an option, but seems to be a poor one. All that will do is let you use either vi(m) or nano for the default, which for emacs users will be no diffrent than the current problem. joke If you use emacs then you are to far away to be helped ;-) /joke At least 8 megs of RAM isn't a problem anymore. Then maybe a custom_editor-flag that inserts Defaultsenv_keep += EDITOR VISUAL PAGER to /etc/sudoers With that even emacs users would be satisfied. Greetings Sebastian Didn't the maintainer/dev that was dealing with the bug say that he wouldn't do that because it was insecure? That also doesn't fix the problem that sudo thinks that nano is a safe fallback. How about a custom_editor flag, as you suggested, then an EDITOR variable in make.conf? Thats the only way I could see being able to solve this problem without invariably screwing someone. This would provide a fairly sane default while giving the user the choice to use something else.
Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..
On Fri, 2 Oct 2009 04:36:47 -0500, forgottenwizard wrote: It isn't always on the users sytem. Providing a non-existent default seems quite broken to me. That's true of every editor, so you have to choose the one that is most likely to be there, the one that is installed for the stage tarballs and is there unless the user has taken specific steps to remove it. Or you could try to find a suitable default intelligently instead of blindly compiling in a default that may or may not exist. Worse still is blindly doing so without telling the user. The user is told. the handbook clearly explains how and why to set EDITOR. nano is only used when EDITOR cannot be found, in other words its a suitable default for a broken system. And if you, say, have two editors installed that satisfy virtual/editor? How is this a problem? As long as a working editor is available to edit sudoers, nothing else is important, because once you are editing sudoers you can change the default in there. I fail to see why this is an issue in the first place, if you can set and environment variable or add a single line to a config file, you really should reconsider your choice of distro. At least I've learned one thing from this thread, I didn't even know that visduo had a built-in default choice of editor, mainly because it's always used the one I wanted it to. -- Neil Bothwick Deja Foobar: A feeling of having made the same mistake before. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..
This thread is really out of control, I doubt anything useful can be born here, we are just running circles around a chair. On Fri, 2 Oct 2009 04:54:42 -0500, forgottenwizard phrexianrea...@hushmail.com wrote: On Fri, Oct 02, 2009 at 11:40:33AM +0200, Sebastian Be?ler wrote: Am 02.10.2009 11:29, schrieb forgottenwizard: Then maybe a custom_editor-flag that inserts Defaultsenv_keep += EDITOR VISUAL PAGER to /etc/sudoers With that even emacs users would be satisfied. Greetings Sebastian Didn't the maintainer/dev that was dealing with the bug say that he wouldn't do that because it was insecure? That also doesn't fix the problem that sudo thinks that nano is a safe fallback. The problem is not in the editor, that's just one of the thousand assumptions people make here that are incorrect. The developers were rather pointing at the use of keep_env in the sudoers file, which is indeed risky, and the usage of external variables in the ebuild, which is also not only insecure, but very bad from every single viewpoint that I can think of. And anyway, it's true that vimOS and emacOS are not the sanest and more secure editors for config file, since they can do everything, and a bad user config for any of these (specially emacs I gues) can put your system at risk easier than nano could ever, because nano simply has not the needed capabilities to act as a nuclear bomb. But as said, that wasn't the point of the developers. How about a custom_editor flag, as you suggested, then an EDITOR variable in make.conf? Thats the only way I could see being able to solve this problem without invariably screwing someone. This would provide a fairly sane default while giving the user the choice to use something else. That would be the only way that it would make sense to me. Just like we have VIDEO_CARDS, some GENTOO_EDITOR variable would be nice for this. But ebuilds and eclasses would need to be aware of this to push the correct dependencies. It's not that trivial to addapt portage to a new portage variable. The USE flag idea is non-viable and doesn't make sense. It really isn't a big deal to configure yourself anyways. So unless some developer is interested in this, I doubt they are going to do the job unless some pristine and already working patch is sent to them, and someone is willing to work on a collaborative way, and not just throwing the-editor-I-preffer blindingly in the sudo ebuild. -- Jesús Guerrero
Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..
On Fri, 02 Oct 2009 12:09:23 +0200, Jesús Guerrero wrote: The USE flag idea is non-viable and doesn't make sense. Why not? The flag already exists for the very purpose the OP raised. -- Neil Bothwick PC DOS Error #01: Windows loading, come back tomorrow signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..
On Thu, 01 Oct 2009 23:12:36 +0300, Arthur D. spinal...@mail.ru wrote: James Ausmus james.aus...@gmail.com писал(а) в своём письме Thu, 01 Oct 2009 22:04:38 +0300: VI. Maybe it's called VIsudo because VIM is better alternative for VANILLA, hah? Maybe we should stick to the old devfs stuff instead of udev, because the names matches. Maybe we should use fam as our file alteration monitor instead of the newest gaim, because the names matches. Maybe we should continue using xfree86 because a lot of tools are still named the xf* way. Let's assume it: each distro has its defaults and times change. The origin of the name of visudo is at best an extremely poor argument. I think it's most reasonably to omit that hardcoding line from ebuild. I'm sure visudo will notice the user about what should be done to make it work as expected and that's better behaviour than complaining about missing /bin/nano, don't u think so? No, Gentoo assumes nano as a safe default. If you are ripping something that's part of the base installation (in fact, it's part of the system package set) then you should be prepared to handle it yourself. There's a default editor just like there's a default syslogger, a default cron daemon and a default package manager. Maybe we should also start debating about there. Maybe, and following your logic, it would be better to set as default something that might not even be installed because the first two letter of vim and visudo are the same. If you truly want to find a solution, you will have to dig much deeper than that, and not just put your preferred editor instead of the one that comes in the gentoo stage files in the ebuild, because that's simply not acceptable. Oh, and your ebuild patch doesn't even bother to check the vim dependency. Oh, and to set a default is not the same than hardcoding. They are very different concepts. All the programs have defaults on their config files. Assume it, your vim zealotry is getting in the middle. Try to look at it from a distant perspective. Then let the ideas rest a couple of days and come back if you have a proper suggestion other than set my beloved vim as default. -- Jesús Guerrero
Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..
Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: then the more sensible one should be used by default. Lets see: nano, built in help, easy to use, small, good enough for most edits. vim, whatthefuckisthatcrap? how do I quit this monstrum? what happened now? MODES? nano wins, hands down. Because every idiot can use it long enough to edit the files needed to make vim default. I agree with this. Even *I* can use nano. That says a lot right there. That is also pretty much what I said, same meaning anyway, when I first saw vi. It took me a bit to get out of that thing too. Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..
Oh, and your ebuild patch doesn't even bother to check the vim dependency. The vanilla USE flag is not global, it's local, man. And it doesn't force user to install vim. You may want to make symlink /usr/bin/vi - /bin/busybox instead. -- Best regards, Spinal
Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..
On Fri, 2 Oct 2009 11:21:53 +0100, Neil Bothwick n...@digimed.co.uk wrote: On Fri, 02 Oct 2009 12:09:23 +0200, Jesús Guerrero wrote: The USE flag idea is non-viable and doesn't make sense. Why not? The flag already exists for the very purpose the OP raised. Oh, you meant vanilla, sorry, I was talking about the other idea that I read on I don't know which mail before about USE flags to set different editors, which is not viable at all. I'd have nothing against the vanilla flag, but surely everyone will want a flag for their preferred editor. Using a var in make.conf is absolutely better in my opinion, but as said, this is non-trivial. Portage would need to adjust the dependencies, it's not as easy as to throw a random string into the ebuild. -- Jesús Guerrero
Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..
On Fri, 02 Oct 2009 13:35:47 +0300, Arthur D. spinal...@mail.ru wrote: Oh, and your ebuild patch doesn't even bother to check the vim dependency. The vanilla USE flag is not global, it's local, man. That's irrelevant. Each ebuild should sort its dependencies. The scope of the use flags is irrelevant. And it doesn't force user to install vim. You may want to make symlink /usr/bin/vi - /bin/busybox instead. Right, you were complaining because it didn't work out of the box, but now you don't care about that? I fail to understand that reasoning. Oh, yes, I understand it: it doesn't matter because *you* have vim installed so it won't bother you. I'd like to see why for you it's acceptable to symlink a file manually but it's not acceptable to configure sudo... I also wonder what's the difference between sudo complaining that it can be find nano and sudo complaining that it can't find vim. So, if it can't find vim, we should go fix that ourselves and that is acceptable, but if it can't find nano then that's unacceptable for you, did I get it right? -- Jesús Guerrero
Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..
So, if it can't find vim, we should go fix that ourselves and that is acceptable, but if it can't find nano then that's unacceptable for you, did I get it right? Did you visit http://www.rootshell.be/~spinal/gentoo_bug_report/286017.html ? I was forced to offer the maintainer to respect at least vanilla sudo behaviour. You don't like something? Go ahead create a ticket and speak with Diego. -- Best regards, Spinal
Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..
On Fri, 02 Oct 2009 13:57:44 +0300, Arthur D. spinal...@mail.ru wrote: So, if it can't find vim, we should go fix that ourselves and that is acceptable, but if it can't find nano then that's unacceptable for you, did I get it right? Did you visit http://www.rootshell.be/~spinal/gentoo_bug_report/286017.html ? Obviously I did. Otherwise I couldn't have commented on your patch for the ebuild. I also posted in that bug in case you missed it. I was forced to offer the maintainer to respect at least vanilla sudo behaviour. You don't like something? Go ahead create a ticket and speak with Diego. I don't have to open any bug this time, I am not the one that's not happy with sudo. ;) -- Jesús Guerrero
[gentoo-user] Re: device eth0 does not exist-
I recompiled my kernel again with built-in e1000e support. No good. Maybe it's udev? _ Get your FREE, LinuxWaves.com Email Now! -- http://www.LinuxWaves.com Join Linux Discussions! -- http://Community.LinuxWaves.com
Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..
On Fri, Oct 02, 2009 at 12:09:23PM +0200, Jes??s Guerrero wrote: On Fri, 2 Oct 2009 04:54:42 -0500, forgottenwizard phrexianrea...@hushmail.com wrote: How about a custom_editor flag, as you suggested, then an EDITOR variable in make.conf? Thats the only way I could see being able to solve this problem without invariably screwing someone. This would provide a fairly sane default while giving the user the choice to use something else. That would be the only way that it would make sense to me. Just like we have VIDEO_CARDS, some GENTOO_EDITOR variable would be nice for this. But ebuilds and eclasses would need to be aware of this to push the correct dependencies. It's not that trivial to addapt portage to a new portage variable. The USE flag idea is non-viable and doesn't make sense. It really isn't a big deal to configure yourself anyways. So unless some developer is interested in this, I doubt they are going to do the job unless some pristine and already working patch is sent to them, and someone is willing to work on a collaborative way, and not just throwing the-editor-I-preffer blindingly in the sudo ebuild. -- Jes??s Guerrero Set an EDITOR var in make.conf, then set a USE-flag for sudo to honor this setting. If you set EDITOR to a valid atom (app-admin/vim, for example), then you may be able to use that as a direct dependency, or have the ebuild spit out a warning that $EDITOR isn't installed if that is the case. I'm not suggesting a USE-flag for everything, but more as a simple switch that tells the ebuild to use the users settings instead of the distro default.
Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..
On 10/2/2009 1:29 AM, Arthur D. wrote: Agree. There's no need in making vim as depends. But in other hand in vanilla sudo package there's VI hardcoded by default. And MOST if not ALL users who have VIM So basically, you're entire silly argument boils down to I don't like nano, make it go away. And yes, I also don't like nano, don't have it installed, and use vim for everything. Shockingly enough, visudo works *exactly the way I want*. So lets not go lumping most if not all users who have vim into your little rant. If I had to venture a guess, I'd say most, if not all, users who managed to get vim installed and nano removed are more than capable of configuring sudo appropriately. --Mike
Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?.. UPDATE
On Friday 02 October 2009 10:53:37 Arthur D. wrote: =+ 3) And now the most interesting. I was banned by maintainer. Now I cannot access the ticket too. Strange, uh?
[gentoo-user] Re: device eth0 does not exist-
On 10/02/2009 04:20 AM, Cinder wrote: I recompiled my kernel again with built-in e1000e support. No good. Maybe it's udev? Oops, by grepping through the kernel sources I see that you need the e1000 driver, not e1000e. From your pastebin lspci: Intel Corporation 82547EI Gigabit Ethernet Controller $grep -r 82547EI /usr/src/linux/drivers/net/* /usr/src/linux/drivers/net/e1000/e1000_hw.c:case E1000_DEV_ID_82547EI: /usr/src/linux/drivers/net/e1000/e1000_hw.c:case E1000_DEV_ID_82547EI_MOBILE: /usr/src/linux/drivers/net/e1000/e1000_hw.h:#define E1000_DEV_ID_82547EI 0x1019 /usr/src/linux/drivers/net/e1000/e1000_hw.h:#define E1000_DEV_ID_82547EI_MOBILE 0x101A But you've tried the e1000 as a module before, right? Can't hurt to try it again as built-in. I can't recall if it ever showed up in your dmesg.
Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..
2009/10/2 Mike Edenfield kut...@kutulu.org: On 10/2/2009 1:29 AM, Arthur D. wrote: Agree. There's no need in making vim as depends. But in other hand in vanilla sudo package there's VI hardcoded by default. And MOST if not ALL users who have VIM So basically, you're entire silly argument boils down to I don't like nano, make it go away. And yes, I also don't like nano, don't have it installed, and use vim for everything. Shockingly enough, visudo works *exactly the way I want*. So lets not go lumping most if not all users who have vim into your little rant. If I had to venture a guess, I'd say most, if not all, users who managed to get vim installed and nano removed are more than capable of configuring sudo appropriately. Exactly. Let's stop the flame (yeah, its all flame as this is HIS problem, and we'll never change his mind). SIMPLE: Stage3 is the default way to install Gentoo. Nano is in stage3. Nano supplies EDITOR. Sudo needs EDITOR. Hardcode what we are SURE to have (nano). Change de default if you don't like it (EDITOR variable or sudoers file, or whatever of the dozen choices you have). -- Daniel da Veiga
Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..
This is an interesting thread to analyze, even though 90.9% of it is basically BS and flaming. I actually can side a little bit with the OP. But as a user of Gentoo, vi and sudo. If it were all up to me, I'd have visudo look at EDITOR and fail if it doesn't exist. But this is likely not the aim of upstream. The name *vi*sudo implies a partiality to vi. However Gentoo uses nano as the default editor, and so I can understand why the maintainer may feel that changing the default to nano in the ebuild makes sense. If you drop Gentoo on a box and install sudo then by default nano will be there and vi won't. So I'm not going to argue with that. Still vi is a safe default. I remember when I first started using Gentoo and was surprised that the default editor was nano. I'm was like huh? It's a distribution where you have to choose your own system logger and compile your own kernel, but when it comes to the text editor they decide to hold your hand with nano? Still, I remember a while back a friend of mine got a new job where she had to use Unix/Linux for the first time. She asked me what editor she should learn to use. I told her she should learn vi first because it's guaranteed to be on all Unix/Linux systems. Then I had to hold down my head in shame and say except Gentoo. Nevertheless, that was someone's choice, probably long ago, and it's easy to fix. Life is short so we have to choose our battles. I actually have an ebuild in my overlay that goes on all my systems. Among other things, it blocks nano, installs vim and sets the appropriate EDITOR variable. I'm quite happy with this solution because it's is the Gentoo Way of doing things. That's all analysis. But this thread isn't about analysis really. It's about being heard and the louder you are and the more you blow things out of proportion then the more chance you have of being heard. Children learn this at an early age. When I was a child I also learned that many times it's more important how you ask for something than what you are actually asking for. Some parents spoil their children and give them everything they want, and so as adults they lose this valuable life lesson. So while the OP may or may not have had an idea that was legitimate or at least interesting, it will forever be overshadowed by his attitude and lack of respect. Perhaps the intention never was to bring about any useful change but as a way of saying I'm here! Can you hear me? We heard you. Now let's move on. -a
[gentoo-user] Kworldclock KDE 4.3.1
I asked this before without any response (smile). Kworldclock 3.5.10 is a useful little app, but is absent from 4.3.1 . I've found 2 versions of the problem : KDE bug 184088 , which suggests the problem is Gentoo packaging ; Gentoo forum http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-787140-highlight-kworldclock.html?sid=bc3747cb7a2906acb862ce70e686a936 which refers to Gentoo bug 280834 . A bug search of Gentoo for 'kworldclock' yields 'zarro'. Bug 280834 solves the poster's problem (how to add it to the KDE desktop), but implies that that is how you have to use it in KDE 4 , ie there is no equivalent of running 'kworldclock' in KDE 3 . As I don't (want to) use the KDE 4 desktop (I use Fluxbox instead), this suggests I'm stuck with keeping the KDE 3 version around, if I want a quick + simple way of seeing how the planet is lit up -- much more important -- finding local time for major cities (I used it recently when needing to phone someone in New Zealand). Is it possible to get Marble to show the effects of Kworldclock ? Is there any other similar app from outside KDE ? -- Xearth shows light/dark, but not current local times AFAIK. I plan to file bugs with KDE + Gentoo, but want to be sure of the situation before doing so. -- ,, SUPPORT ___//___, Philip Webb ELECTRIC /] [] [] [] [] []| Cities Centre, University of Toronto TRANSIT`-O--O---' purslowatchassdotutorontodotca
[gentoo-user] Re: Am I wrong?..
On 2009-10-02, Albert Hopkins mar...@letterboxes.org wrote: It's a distribution where you have to choose your own system logger and compile your own kernel, but when it comes to the text editor they decide to hold your hand with nano? Some of us who are vimpaired think of it more as they decided not to whack you across the kneecaps with vi. ;) I don't like nano much either -- I find it rather clumsy, but at least it seems to be safe. It doesn't trash my file every 30 seconds when I start typing content while in command mode. Honestly -- I've used vi infrequently but regularly (probably several times a month) for decades, and my brain just doesn't work the way vi does. -- Grant Edwards grante Yow! Is my fallout shelter at termite proof? visi.com
[gentoo-user] And I thought I understood blocks...
Er, what the heck is this one:
emerge -av1 x11-libs/libXScrnSaver
These are the packages that would be merged, in order:
Calculating dependencies... done!
[ebuild N] x11-proto/scrnsaverproto-1.2.0 49 kB
[ebuild N] x11-libs/libXScrnSaver-1.1.3 USE=-debug 0 kB
[blocks B ] x11-libs/libXScrnSaver-1.2
(x11-libs/libXScrnSaver-1.2 is blocking x11-proto/scrnsaverproto-1.2.0)
Total: 2 packages (2 new), Size of downloads: 49 kB
Conflict: 1 block (1 unsatisfied)
* Error: The above package list contains packages which cannot be
* installed at the same time on the same system.
('ebuild', '/', 'x11-libs/libXScrnSaver-1.1.3', 'merge') pulled in by
x11-libs/libXScrnSaver
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: {OT} External video card with RCA output?
Does anyone know of a self-powered external video card (USB, Firewire, ExpressCard) that has composite/RCA output and works in Gentoo? I'd like to use it to connect my laptop (VGA output only) to TVs while I'm travelling. Something like this? http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=223833 OS compatibility isn't an issue because it only deals with video signals. There is a USB connection to the computer, but only to supply power. I've used various widgets similar to that, and they work fine. but remember than you're not going to get much more than 640x480 resolution on a TV via composite video. Setting your desktop to 800x600 usually works OK, but things are going to be a bit on the fuzzy side. -- Grant That looks pretty slick and it has good reviews: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815260011 Ideally, I'd like to get something with the option to use DVI or HDMI as well as composite. Then it would need to be a sound card too unless I was using separate audio cables. Does anyone know of anything? It might be even better to have a real external video and sound card connected via a real USB interface. That way, you could use only an HDMI cable, or you could run audio and video cables from the device to the TV, instead of audio cables going from the laptop to the TV. However, I'm not sure something like that exists. Here is something that looks close: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001PSVBFY - Grant
Re: [gentoo-user] And I thought I understood blocks...
091002 Nikos Chantziaras wrote: Er, what the heck is this one: emerge -av1 x11-libs/libXScrnSaver These are the packages that would be merged, in order: Calculating dependencies... done! [ebuild N] x11-proto/scrnsaverproto-1.2.0 49 kB [ebuild N] x11-libs/libXScrnSaver-1.1.3 USE=-debug 0 kB [blocks B ] x11-libs/libXScrnSaver-1.2 Faced with that, I would do emerge -Cp libXScrnSaver emerge -C libXScrnSaver emerge -pv libXScrnSaver emerge -1 libXScrnSaver That's exactly what I'ld do, but you will amend it a bit for your needs. In short, you remove the present version to free up the new one. -- ,, SUPPORT ___//___, Philip Webb ELECTRIC /] [] [] [] [] []| Cities Centre, University of Toronto TRANSIT`-O--O---' purslowatchassdotutorontodotca
Re: [gentoo-user] And I thought I understood blocks...
Am Freitag, 2. Oktober 2009 schrieb Nikos Chantziaras:
Er, what the heck is this one:
emerge -av1 x11-libs/libXScrnSaver
These are the packages that would be merged, in order:
Calculating dependencies... done!
[ebuild N] x11-proto/scrnsaverproto-1.2.0 49 kB
[ebuild N] x11-libs/libXScrnSaver-1.1.3 USE=-debug 0 kB
[blocks B ] x11-libs/libXScrnSaver-1.2
(x11-libs/libXScrnSaver-1.2 is blocking x11-proto/scrnsaverproto-1.2.0)
Total: 2 packages (2 new), Size of downloads: 49 kB
Conflict: 1 block (1 unsatisfied)
* Error: The above package list contains packages which cannot be
* installed at the same time on the same system.
('ebuild', '/', 'x11-libs/libXScrnSaver-1.1.3', 'merge') pulled in by
x11-libs/libXScrnSaver
fr...@eisen ~ $ eix scrnsaverproto
[I] x11-proto/scrnsaverproto
Available versions: 1.1.0 [M]~1.2.0
So, scrnsaverproto-1.2.0 is still masked and its ebuild says:
!x11-libs/libXScrnSaver-1.2
But
fr...@eisen ~ $ eix libXScr
[I] x11-libs/libXScrnSaver
Available versions: 1.1.3 {debug}
My portage, last synced an hour ago, doesn't know _any_ libXScrnSaver which
scrnsaverproto accepts (assuming no overlays in that area, I only have
sunrise and kde-testing).
Here, =scrnsaverproto-1.1 is a dependency of libXScrnSaver-1.1.3. But since
you want to update scrnsaverproto, you could see what other packages need it.
Perhaps you can remove it from your sys without complications. On my system
those are mainly KDE apps plus mplayer through xscreensaver useflag, but
perhaps you're a Gnome dude or XFCE chap or whatever. :-)
--
Gruß | Greetings | Qapla'
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some
people appear bright until you hear them speak...
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Re: [gentoo-user] And I thought I understood blocks...
091002 Philip Webb wrote in too much haste: Faced with that, I would do emerge -Cp libXScrnSaver emerge -C libXScrnSaver emerge -pv libXScrnSaver emerge -1 libXScrnSaver Sorry, I thought the new version was 1.3 , but of course it's 1.1.3 , so the block is a bit bizarre. Someone else has offered better advice. -- ,, SUPPORT ___//___, Philip Webb ELECTRIC /] [] [] [] [] []| Cities Centre, University of Toronto TRANSIT`-O--O---' purslowatchassdotutorontodotca
Re: [gentoo-user] And I thought I understood blocks...
On Fri, 2009-10-02 at 19:17 +0300, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
Er, what the heck is this one:
emerge -av1 x11-libs/libXScrnSaver
These are the packages that would be merged, in order:
Calculating dependencies... done!
[ebuild N] x11-proto/scrnsaverproto-1.2.0 49 kB
[ebuild N] x11-libs/libXScrnSaver-1.1.3 USE=-debug 0 kB
[blocks B ] x11-libs/libXScrnSaver-1.2
(x11-libs/libXScrnSaver-1.2 is blocking x11-proto/scrnsaverproto-1.2.0)
Total: 2 packages (2 new), Size of downloads: 49 kB
Conflict: 1 block (1 unsatisfied)
* Error: The above package list contains packages which cannot be
* installed at the same time on the same system.
('ebuild', '/', 'x11-libs/libXScrnSaver-1.1.3', 'merge') pulled in by
x11-libs/libXScrnSaver
Just offhand I'd say that you should emerge -C
x11-libs/libXScrnSaver-1.2 before you emerge -av1
x11-libs/libXScrnSaver...
[gentoo-user] *WARNING* updating Xorg
1. FYI, There is a short, direct upgrade guide that should be referenced before upgrading to 1.6: http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/desktop/x/x11/xorg-server-1.6-upgrade-guide.xml It refers to another, short upgrade guide that should definitely be reviewed before proceeding: http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/desktop/x/x11/libxcb-1.4-upgrade-guide.xml 2. The second guide uses a lot of one-shot emerges; could anyone please explain why I'd use a one-shot? ISTM that if a package is on my system, I'd want it routinely updated. If I need it only once, then instruct me to unmerge it after it's done!? TIA
Re: [gentoo-user] *WARNING* updating Xorg
2. The second guide uses a lot of one-shot emerges; could anyone please explain why I'd use a one-shot? ISTM that if a package is on my system, I'd want it routinely updated. If I need it only once, then instruct me to unmerge it after it's done!? The basic idea of --oneshot is to avoid recording in the portage world file. So, for example, you want xorg and some other things in world. This will call in the dependencies. However, for major upgrades, my experience with other packages is that sometimes it's better to pull some new dependencies in first, then install the update. In principle, portage should take care of all this, but portage isn't always perfect. I'd guess this is the reason for --oneshot on some new xorg dependencies. They'll be called in on updates via dependencies, but this is a better way to proceed for updating from a lower version. Maybe on a newer version of xorg, these dependencies won't be required (unlikely, but possible), and thus you can avoid putting them explicitly in world. ~daid
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: device eth0 does not exist
On Fri, Oct 2, 2009 at 2:40 AM, Cinder cin...@linuxwaves.com wrote: Thanks. Depmod yielded no results. At least as far as I can tell. I tried with ... Code: # depmod -a ; depmod -e -F As I recall Note: the kernel developers warn that you should not configure or compile your kernel as root. - http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-539024.html And that that there have been bugs in the build process which caused files in the /dev tree to be deleted if run as root I remember distinctly configuring and compiling my kernels as root, but ... Code: $ make make modules_install snip (verbos output attached) rm: cannot remove `include/config/kernel.release': Permission denied make: *** [include/config/kernel.release] Error 1 ... always failed. You always install as root right? So I just carried on compiling as root. Could this be part of the problem? Do I need to compile as user? I don't seem to be able. No, the kernel should be configured/compiled as root. What is the output of: uname -a Thanks! -James _ Get your FREE, LinuxWaves.com Email Now! -- http://www.LinuxWaves.com Join Linux Discussions! -- http://Community.LinuxWaves.com
[gentoo-user] Re: And I thought I understood blocks...
On 10/02/2009 07:17 PM, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
Er, what the heck is this one:
emerge -av1 x11-libs/libXScrnSaver
These are the packages that would be merged, in order:
Calculating dependencies... done!
[ebuild N ] x11-proto/scrnsaverproto-1.2.0 49 kB
[ebuild N ] x11-libs/libXScrnSaver-1.1.3 USE=-debug 0 kB
[blocks B ] x11-libs/libXScrnSaver-1.2 (x11-libs/libXScrnSaver-1.2
is blocking x11-proto/scrnsaverproto-1.2.0)
Total: 2 packages (2 new), Size of downloads: 49 kB
Conflict: 1 block (1 unsatisfied)
* Error: The above package list contains packages which cannot be
* installed at the same time on the same system.
('ebuild', '/', 'x11-libs/libXScrnSaver-1.1.3', 'merge') pulled in by
x11-libs/libXScrnSaver
Thanks for all the suggestions. I synced again and the problem
persisted. As if that weren't enough, more blocks appeared (about
python-2.6.3 depending upon python-3.x [lol?] which I have masked since
I don't want python-3). The only solution is to mask
=x11-proto/scrnsaverproto-1.2.0 and =dev-lang/python-2.6.3.
Looks like a bad portage day ;)
Re: [gentoo-user] And I thought I understood blocks...
On Fri, Oct 2, 2009 at 11:17 AM, Nikos Chantziaras rea...@arcor.de wrote: Er, what the heck is this one: emerge -av1 x11-libs/libXScrnSaver These are the packages that would be merged, in order: Calculating dependencies... done! [ebuild N] x11-proto/scrnsaverproto-1.2.0 49 kB [ebuild N] x11-libs/libXScrnSaver-1.1.3 USE=-debug 0 kB [blocks B ] x11-libs/libXScrnSaver-1.2 (x11-libs/libXScrnSaver-1.2 is blocking x11-proto/scrnsaverproto-1.2.0) Looks like scrnsaverproto-1.2.0 is in package.mask now, maybe yet another sync will get it out of your life :)
Re: [gentoo-user] Different desktop wallpapers in KDE4?
Seems like an awful lot of hoops to jump through just to get a facility that comes out of the box in 3.5. Maybe I'll give it a try anyway, so thanks. Yeah, right? I was thinking of making the switch, but I was convinced there must be infinite tricks hidden. ~daid
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Am I wrong?..
Grant Edwards wrote: SNIP and my brain just doesn't work the way vi does. I'm with you Grant. Mine doesn't work that way either. Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] Am I wrong?..
2009/10/2 Arthur D. spinal...@mail.ru: Joshua Murphy poiso...@gmail.com писал(а) в своём письме Fri, 02 Oct 2009 09:58:33 +0300: every Gentoo system has vi, there just isn't a direct symlink with that name to busybox. Wow, that's a really great problem. $ ln `which busybox` vi $ ./vi -- Best regards, Spinal Yeah... imagine that. A simple change to fix things to work as I want when I deviate from the distro default. Interestingly, I already do that, and into /bin/, on every lightweight system I build for myself (more full fledged builds have vim, and none of my builds keep nano around). Really, that seems just as simple to me as adjusting the config file for sudo when deviating from the distro-offered default. Simple solutions are an amazing thing, at least, when they're not blown away as unacceptable because the world doesn't revolve around every single person who think's they're at Burger King (oddly enough, in my experience, you don't actually get your way their either). I would apologize for my rather sarcastic mannerisms in my comments here and there in the thread, but when the initial post is so terribly combative, I just can't help myself. -- Poison [BLX] Joshua M. Murphy
[gentoo-user] Abut smb:// aware tools
Do we have tools other than Konqueror that are aware of smb/UNK addressing? Before you answer please note that: I know about ssh I know about fuse I know about mount -tcifs I'd really like to be able to use UNK addressing from the cmd line. cd //host/share I don't now how many of you have noticed but bash shell from cygwin on windows has that capability built in. Or maybe it comes from windows env. You can do `cd //linux-host/share' in a bash terminal If command line smb/UNK is not on without lots of diddling around, what about some file managing tool that does it like Konqueror does. Emacs is said to be able to do this using tramp but I haven't ever gotten it to work. Konqueror can do it... but I don't run kde, and don't really want to fiddle with it in that direction.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Double nautilus windows for each USB flash drive plugged in
Hello, Walt: I had Browse removable media when inserted checked. Sure enough, when unchecked, a nautilus window opens. I also notice that two options are checked. I don't understand what the difference between them would be: Mount removeable drives when hot-plugged and Mount removable media when inserted Thank you for the advice. Alan On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 1:16 AM, walt w41...@gmail.com wrote: On 09/28/2009 06:23 AM, Alan E. Davis wrote: Hello: Apparently I have bodged the setup somehow on this system. Each time I plug in a flash drive, two Nautilus windows open up. If I plug three USB drives in, six windows open. I can't answer your question, sorry, but I've noticed something here that may or may not be related. In the gnome System::Preferences::Removable Drives and Media dialog, I have the Browse removable media when inserted box *not* checked, but I get a nautilus window anyway. So, I don't have double nautili, but I still have one more than I asked for. Does that checkbox do anything on your system?
[gentoo-user] Re: Am I wrong?..
Dale rdalek1...@gmail.com writes: Grant Edwards wrote: SNIP and my brain just doesn't work the way vi does. I'm with you Grant. Mine doesn't work that way either. You guys do know that Bill Joy was lopsided drunk when he wrote the bulk of vi ... right? (or so it is said by oldtimers) Nobodys' brain works that way on purpose... You have to make it happen with practice (or alcohol). I should know... I've been practicing for 12 yrs and tried the alcohol technique before becoming a teetotaller some time earlier, and still a very long ways from being an adept. Or even a competent for that matter. But still compared to nano, even just the basic open file/ write to file/ close file... is done better and easier from vi. Someone mentioned being surprised to find nano the default in stage3. I was surprised too. My first gentoo installs were several yrs ago now so I expect it now, but it did surprise me quite a bit that first time. I'd already been through the grease with vi so could do basic stuff well enough by that time. However, all that said... it still isn't a big deal having nano there at first ... Install disks are networked right off the bat these days, so its not long before you can emerge vim or emacs, you don't have to put up with nano for long.
[gentoo-user] Re: Am I wrong?..
On 2009-10-02, Harry Putnam rea...@newsguy.com wrote: Dale rdalek1...@gmail.com writes: Grant Edwards wrote: SNIP and my brain just doesn't work the way vi does. I'm with you Grant. Mine doesn't work that way either. You guys do know that Bill Joy was lopsided drunk when he wrote the bulk of vi ... right? (or so it is said by oldtimers) Now that you mention it, I have heard that. :) Nobodys' brain works that way on purpose... You have to make it happen with practice (or alcohol). I should know... I've been practicing for 12 yrs and tried the alcohol technique before becoming a teetotaller some time earlier, and still a very long ways from being an adept. Or even a competent for that matter. OTOH, watching somebody who _is_ adept with vi (or ed) is not something one soon forgets. There were several things I've watched that would have taken me twice as long to do in emacs (but would take 16X as long for _me_ to do it in vi). But still compared to nano, even just the basic open file/ write to file/ close file... is done better and easier from vi. Though I stumble around in nano rather badly, at least the failure modes seem a lot less damaging that what I manage to do in vi. With vi, I generally have to abandon the edit and start over at least 2 or 3 times. However, all that said... it still isn't a big deal having nano there at first ... Install disks are networked right off the bat these days, so its not long before you can emerge vim or emacs, you don't have to put up with nano for long. Exactly. I usually emerge jed first (which has a good emacs mode), and then switch over to emacs once I get things going. -- Grant Edwards grante Yow! Am I in Milwaukee? at visi.com
[gentoo-user] Re: kvm and Intel E5450's
Daniel: just a note to follow up for you guys. i managed to flash the bios on my tyan S5393G2NR to v1.06 and now the vmx flag shows up in /proc/cpuinfo along with about a half a dozen others. so now the kvm device is created at boot and kvm works like a charm with no modules whatsoever. so now i am a happy camper... James Erickson _ Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/177141665/direct/01/
[gentoo-user] Re: Double nautilus windows for each USB flash drive plugged in
On 10/02/2009 02:10 PM, Alan E. Davis wrote: Hello, Walt: I had Browse removable media when inserted checked. Sure enough, when unchecked, a nautilus window opens. I also notice that two options are checked. I don't understand what the difference between them would be: Mount removeable drives when hot-plugged and Mount removable media when inserted Thanks for asking -- you just solved two annoying problems for me :o) An internal CD/DVD player is not a removable drive, but it does use removable media. A USB stick is a removable drive but does not use removable media. A number of gnome apps are far more configurable than their settings menu implies. To access some hidden settings you need to use the gconf-editor utility, found in Applications::System tools::Configuration Editor, or just type gconf-editor from a command prompt. Navigate to apps::nautilus::preferences and look for several settings relating to media, and experiment with those.
[gentoo-user] Re: Abut smb:// aware tools
On 10/02/2009 01:56 PM, Harry Putnam wrote: Do we have tools other than Konqueror that are aware of smb/UNK addressing? Before you answer please note that: I know about ssh I know about fuse I know about mount -tcifs I'd really like to be able to use UNK addressing from the cmd line. cd //host/share Well, it sounds like you know more about the subject than I do, but do you know about smbmount that comes as part of samba? Seems to me like that's what you're asking for. BTW, what is UNK addressing?
Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 4 bugs update
Volker Armin Hemmann writes: On Dienstag 29 September 2009, Alex Schuster wrote: Philip Webb writes: I've added to a number of KDE bugs relating to problems with 4.3.1 . Thanks for doing so! Hopefully this will improve KDE. I also have a huuuge list of KDE bugs, but I am still at 4.2, and I hope at least some of them have been fixed already. But I will wait with the update until I have some time, because normally I need my PC with KDE running, and I fear something will go wrong while updating. I will report those bugs that are still happening with 4.3. quickpkg. Update goes wrong. Go back with --usepgk Makes downgrades quick and painless. Right. Although this will be a huge list of packages, as I have to remove all of KDE 4.2 first because of removing the kdeprefix use flag. And then... some days ago I wanted to try ati-drivers-9.8, and had to upgrade 6 packages, xorg-1.6 and such. I quickpkg'd them, tried the new drivers (no success of course), downgraded with --usepkg, and still I cannot get it to work again. I am using the radeon drivers for now until I get some time to figure this out. Wonko
[gentoo-user]
[gentoo-user] Re: bzflag is broken
Nikos Chantziaras realnc at arcor.de writes: Well, actually one thing that stands out is that I'm using newer versions of most of the dependencies. I might have found my problem: # xdriinfo Xlib: extension XFree86-DRI missing on display :0.0. Screen 0: not direct rendering capable. ideas? kernel, xlib. xorg.conf or ati-drivers problem? James
xorg-server update (was: Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 4 bugs update)
Alex Schuster writes: And then... some days ago I wanted to try ati-drivers-9.8, and had to upgrade 6 packages, xorg-1.6 and such. I quickpkg'd them, tried the new drivers (no success of course), downgraded with --usepkg, and still I cannot get it to work again. I am using the radeon drivers for now until I get some time to figure this out. Now I took some time and upgraded to xorg-server-1.6.3.901-r2 again. At first, X started fine, but I had no keyboard and mouse. As before, which I workarounded by compiling xorg-server without hal. It turned out I had to re-compile xf86-input-evdev. Had forgotten this, although it is in the 'qlist -I -C x11-drivers/' output and the xorg-server ebuild told me to rebuild all this. Now, the good thing is that X is running, I have mouse and keyboard. German keyboard, configured by hal, not directly in xorg.conf. Hooray. The bad thing is that I only get a blank screen, regardless of the driver (fglrx, radeonhd, radeon, vesa, ati). With one driver I was even able to change the screen resolution vial Ctrl-Alt-+, my monitor showed this, but it still was blank. I also tried xorg-server-1.6.4, with the same result. Now I went back to xorg-server-1.5.3-r7, re-compiled everything X related, and at least it is working again. Wonko
[gentoo-user] Re: Abut smb:// aware tools
walt w41...@gmail.com writes: On 10/02/2009 01:56 PM, Harry Putnam wrote: Do we have tools other than Konqueror that are aware of smb/UNK addressing? Before you answer please note that: I know about ssh I know about fuse I know about mount -tcifs I'd really like to be able to use UNK addressing from the cmd line. cd //host/share Well, it sounds like you know more about the subject than I do, but do you know about smbmount that comes as part of samba? Seems to me like that's what you're asking for. I had forgotten about smbmount but that too is not the same as being able to cd around with cd //host/share smbmount adds another layer of complexity... and something more to umount or maintain in mounted state... would also add a few more characters to each address. BTW, what is UNK addressing? Sorry ...s/K/C/ Universal Naming Convention... I always think of the sound `UNK' when I think about that style of address...(//host/share), it just slipped into print, but I guess I can't hide the fact that I am largely braindead too.
