Re: [gentoo-user] portage getting mixed up with USE?
Am 23.06.2011 00:58, schrieb Neil Bothwick: On Wed, 22 Jun 2011 21:16:30 +0200, Sebastian Beßler wrote: This new behavior is bad, but not as bad as Windows. This is Gentoo after all and not Ubuntu ;-P :-) In what way is it bad? It is bad because a) it is new, and new stuff is always evil :-P b) it breaks the way portage displays his informations. Without autounmask the display of emerge shows what he is going to do. With autounmask it shows what needs to be done. c) it is a big change that came wihout any warning d) it is an automation, and because of that a red flag for any real gentoo user :-D Greetings Sebastian signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-user] /etc/machine-id ???
On 6/23/11 7:54 AM, Mick wrote: On Thursday 23 Jun 2011 03:49:57 meino.cra...@gmx.de wrote: Hi, I found a file /etc/machine-id on my linux box. I did a qfile for this and nothing was found. What purpose is that file and can I delete it without problems? I'd be interested to find out too. Same file here and equery belongs does not return any package. dbus is creating this file during installation. http://0pointer.de/public/systemd-man/machine-id.html signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-user] /etc/machine-id ???
On Thursday 23 June 2011 04:49:57 meino.cra...@gmx.de wrote: Hi, I found a file /etc/machine-id on my linux box. I did a qfile for this and nothing was found. What purpose is that file and can I delete it without problems? Best regards, mcc I don't have that file on any of my machines, however, a quick google reveals this may be related to dbus: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/dbus/2011-March/014188.html Maybe someone else can shed some more light on this? -- Joost
Re: [gentoo-user] [OT virtual stuff] gentoo vm appliance
On Thursday 23 June 2011 08:16:33 Pandu Poluan wrote: -original message- Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] [OT virtual stuff] gentoo vm appliance From: Albert Hopkins mar...@letterboxes.org Date: 2011-06-23 07:11 I have a program that I use to create Gentoo VM appliances. I have no idea if it works with vbox or vmware as I run KVM, but I think it *should* work. Anyway if you want to try it you can or, if you want, it also builds stage4 tarballs, so I can build you a stage4 tarball of a base Gentoo install pretty easily (including kernel). The stage4 (excluding portage) would be ~90MB (bz2). The disk image (compressed QCOW is about 120MB). Any such program to build XenServer appliances (.xva) ? Shouldn't it work similarly? Eg. start an appliance and install using the stage4? I use Xen directly and as long as I can create and fill the partitions for the VM, any creation tool should work. -- Joost
Re: [gentoo-user] Password protection without apache2?
On Wednesday 22 June 2011 16:59:50 Grant wrote: I'd like to password protect the motion webcam stream at my.external.ip.address:port. Do I need to run apache2 in order to do that? It seems like overkill but I don't think motion has password protection built-in. It's been a while since I've used motion, so not sure what the options are. You could also try a VPN-type link or SSH portforwarding, both can be set up to require a password. -- Joost
Re: [gentoo-user] kdepim-4.6.0 woes
On Wednesday 22 June 2011 18:02:39 Alan McKinnon wrote: But all this was mild compared to what I did yesterday. You know that notice on the console when you get sudo wrong? It says the incident will be reported OK. But to whom? On my shell boxes it gets reported to me. And yesterday this is what it said: host : Jun 21 11:55:25 : user : 1 incorrect password attempt ; TTY=pts/194 ; PWD=/some/path ; USER=root ; COMMAND=init 6 500 concurrent sessions on that box is routine, it's a major gateway server. That poor user has not recovered yet. You mean, he (or she) will eventually recover? Am curious though, why the attempt for a reboot? -- Joost
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Do we have to build gcc with fortran now?
On Thu, 23 Jun 2011 00:03:32 -0500, Dale wrote: So why are you installing it, and all its dependencies, on the one hand, and complaining about bloat on the other? Surely installing stuff you don't need is the very definition of bloat. But it installed stuff either way. Instread of ABD, I got WXYZ because of dependencies. It's not that I want them, it's that portage needs them to make a package that I do want happy. This reminds me of the six of one or half a dozen of the other. This may be nine of one tho. lol My question was why are you installing cantor if you don't need it? You don't use it, you don't need it, it drags in a bunch of dependencies that require other packages to install more files too, yet you still want it there. Hint: I don't have cantor installed and the sky hasn't fallen in, at least not yet. -- Neil Bothwick This is as bad as it can get; but don't bet on it. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] /etc/machine-id ???
110623 justin wrote: On Thursday 23 Jun 2011 03:49:57 meino.cra...@gmx.de wrote: I found a file /etc/machine-id on my linux box. I did a qfile for this and nothing was found. What purpose is that file and can I delete it without problems? dbus is creating this file during installation. http://0pointer.de/public/systemd-man/machine-id.html Yes, mine dates from beginning installation of Gentoo on this box : root:506 etc ls -l machine-id -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 33 Oct 24 2007 machine-id -- ,, SUPPORT ___//___, Philip Webb ELECTRIC /] [] [] [] [] []| Cities Centre, University of Toronto TRANSIT`-O--O---' purslowatchassdotutorontodotca
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Do we have to build gcc with fortran now?
Neil Bothwick wrote: On Thu, 23 Jun 2011 00:03:32 -0500, Dale wrote: So why are you installing it, and all its dependencies, on the one hand, and complaining about bloat on the other? Surely installing stuff you don't need is the very definition of bloat. But it installed stuff either way. Instread of ABD, I got WXYZ because of dependencies. It's not that I want them, it's that portage needs them to make a package that I do want happy. This reminds me of the six of one or half a dozen of the other. This may be nine of one tho. lol My question was why are you installing cantor if you don't need it? You don't use it, you don't need it, it drags in a bunch of dependencies that require other packages to install more files too, yet you still want it there. Hint: I don't have cantor installed and the sky hasn't fallen in, at least not yet. Oh, I see. It was pulled in by kde-meta. I know I can have KDE other ways but it is much easier to emerge kde-meta than to emerge some huge amount of packages . There are times when I am looking through the menu and find something interesting that I didn't know about before. So far, Cantor isn't one of them. lol Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] kdepim-4.6.0 woes
Joost Roeleveld wrote: On Wednesday 22 June 2011 18:02:39 Alan McKinnon wrote: But all this was mild compared to what I did yesterday. You know that notice on the console when you get sudo wrong? It says the incident will be reported OK. But to whom? On my shell boxes it gets reported to me. And yesterday this is what it said: host : Jun 21 11:55:25 :user : 1 incorrect password attempt ; TTY=pts/194 ; PWD=/some/path ; USER=root ; COMMAND=init 6 500 concurrent sessions on that box is routine, it's a major gateway server. That poor user has not recovered yet. You mean, he (or she) will eventually recover? Am curious though, why the attempt for a reboot? I was curious about that too. I don't use sudo, I'm the only geek in the chair here, but I don't think I would want to reboot just because my typing was off. Given what Alan runs and the amount of people it affects, I'm surprised it is set up that way. Question. You changed that behavior yet Alan? Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] [OT virtual stuff] gentoo vm appliance
On Thursday, June 23 at 09:54 (+0200), Joost Roeleveld said: Any such program to build XenServer appliances (.xva) ? Shouldn't it work similarly? Eg. start an appliance and install using the stage4? I use Xen directly and as long as I can create and fill the partitions for the VM, any creation tool should work. Yes the stage4 should work similarly. However Pandu was asking about building .xva which I know nothing about, unless an .xva is similar to/same as a stage4 (I have no idea)?
Re: [gentoo-user] [OT virtual stuff] gentoo vm appliance
On Thursday, June 23 at 00:35 (-0400), Matthew Finkel said: Oh, don't get me wrong, that's one reason I use qcow2 myself, but it's either something he would have to deal with when he received it or the conversion would increase the size of the disk image that would be shipped to him. Yes, of course a raw image file will typically be bigger than a compressed qcow, just as an unpacked stage4..tar.bz2 file is going to be bigger than the original archive. But in terms transferability, compressed qcows are more efficient since they only include *used* blocks and they are compressed. I can convert the image into any of a number of formats, but the issue then is it will be bigger, and thus take me longer to upload it and the OP to download it.
Re: [gentoo-user] portage getting mixed up with USE?
2011/6/22 Sebastian Beßler sebast...@darkmetatron.de: Am 22.06.2011 17:31, schrieb Alan McKinnon: On Wednesday 22 June 2011 15:44:40 Neil Bothwick did opine thusly: On Wed, 22 Jun 2011 14:41:57 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote: It is unset here (well, it's not set, actually - same thing) autounmask is set by default, you need to explicitly set it to off. So, is it invisibly on then? I don't have it in make.conf and it's not in FEATURES: It is not a FEATURE its a default option NOTE: This --autounmask behavior can be disabled by setting EMERGE_DEFAULT_OPTS=--autounmask=n in make.conf. Sorry for the confusion by mixing up FEATURES with EMERGE_DEFAULT_OPTS. I did not have a Gentoo machine at hand when writing this. -- Regards, Daniel
Re: [gentoo-user] kdepim-4.6.0 woes
On Thursday 23 June 2011 05:53:15 Dale wrote: Joost Roeleveld wrote: On Wednesday 22 June 2011 18:02:39 Alan McKinnon wrote: But all this was mild compared to what I did yesterday. You know that notice on the console when you get sudo wrong? It says the incident will be reported OK. But to whom? On my shell boxes it gets reported to me. And yesterday this is what it said: host : Jun 21 11:55:25 :user : 1 incorrect password attempt ; TTY=pts/194 ; PWD=/some/path ; USER=root ; COMMAND=init 6 500 concurrent sessions on that box is routine, it's a major gateway server. That poor user has not recovered yet. You mean, he (or she) will eventually recover? Am curious though, why the attempt for a reboot? I was curious about that too. I don't use sudo, I'm the only geek in the chair here, but I don't think I would want to reboot just because my typing was off. I do use sudo for some scripts as I don't want the script to have root-access to some of the servers and I definitely don't want to add suid-bits to random programs. At my home, I'm not the only one who knows his/her way around computers. But neither of us would consider it a good idea to simply reboot a machine. Given what Alan runs and the amount of people it affects, I'm surprised it is set up that way. Question. You changed that behavior yet Alan? I'm guessing Alan got that because it's not allowed with sudo. If it was, the password-failure wouldn't have been listed. -- Joost
Re: [gentoo-user] [OT virtual stuff] gentoo vm appliance
On Thursday 23 June 2011 07:18:38 Albert Hopkins wrote: On Thursday, June 23 at 09:54 (+0200), Joost Roeleveld said: Any such program to build XenServer appliances (.xva) ? Shouldn't it work similarly? Eg. start an appliance and install using the stage4? I use Xen directly and as long as I can create and fill the partitions for the VM, any creation tool should work. Yes the stage4 should work similarly. However Pandu was asking about building .xva which I know nothing about, unless an .xva is similar to/same as a stage4 (I have no idea)? .xva is a format specifically for Citrix Xen. There are tools to convert classic Xen VMs to xva files: http://www.xen.org/files/xva/README I would be willing to assist in getting this tool to work with your program. All I'd need is a copy of your program along with assistance from Pandu Poluan to test the resulting XVA files. I do not run Citrix XenServer and have no need for it as Xen itself works fine for me. -- Joost
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Do we have to build gcc with fortran now?
On Thu, 23 Jun 2011 05:49:45 -0500, Dale wrote: My question was why are you installing cantor if you don't need it? Oh, I see. It was pulled in by kde-meta. I know I can have KDE other ways but it is much easier to emerge kde-meta than to emerge some huge amount of packages . If you consider spending a couple of days farting around with fortran to be much easier... :P -- Neil Bothwick Walk softly and carry a fully charged phazer. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Do we have to build gcc with fortran now?
* Dale rdalek1...@gmail.com [110622 17:40]:
Todd Goodman wrote:
* Dalerdalek1...@gmail.com [110622 14:45]:
When I did that, it complained that cantor was built with no backend.
Did you get the same thing? It said this here:
WARN (postinst)
You have decided to build cantor with no backend.
To have this application functional, please do one of below:
# emerge -va1 '='kde-base/cantor-4.6.4 with 'R' USE flag enabled
# emerge -vaDu sci-mathematics/maxima
So, I did the later and it needs to emerge several packages that I
didn't have before. Looks like I can either have a bit of bloat on one
side or a bit of bloat on the other side. o_O
I mention just in case you didn't notice the message and then something
borks on next login.
Dale
:-) :-)
Yes, it complained about the same thing. Since I don't know what cantor
is I figure I don't much care if it has a backend or not. :-)
Seriously, I haven't noticed any issues yet not having the backend.
If I find something broken I need then I'll do as you did.
Thanks,
Todd
root@fireball / # eix cantor
[I] kde-base/cantor
Available versions: (4) 4.6.2{tbz2} 4.6.3{tbz2} (~)4.6.4{tbz2}
{+R aqua debug +handbook kdeenablefinal kdeprefix ps}
Installed versions: 4.6.4(4){tbz2}(01:24:34 PM
06/22/2011)(handbook -R -aqua -debug -kdeenablefinal -ps)
Homepage:http://www.kde.org/
Description: KDE4 interface for doing mathematics and
scientific computing
root@fireball / #
You may not need it unless you jump into the menu and go to Education
Mathematics Cantor. I don't even know how it works so if you are the
same as me, you won't need it.
Dale
:-) :-)
Yeah, real doubtful as the machine is typically used to remote shell
into with a handlful of graphic apps started with a display on the
remote machine I'm sshing in from. :-)
Thanks,
Todd
Re: [gentoo-user] Do we have to build gcc with fortran now?
* Mark Knecht markkne...@gmail.com [110622 18:35]: On Wed, Jun 22, 2011 at 2:28 PM, Todd Goodman t...@bonedaddy.net wrote: SNIP No actually blas-reference fails to build unless gcc is built with the fortran use flag enabled (since there's no fortran compiler available.) The deps pulling in blas-reference are in my previous mail. Todd If you have virtual/fortran installed then portage will pull in a different Fortran compiler. (ifc on my machine) - Mark Yes of course. Sorry for the imprecise statement. But the point is my profile turns on R by default so just by emerging kde-meta I end up with the GCC fortran compiler and packages that require a fortran compiler. And if the fortran use flag was turned off (either by changes on ~x86 or if I turn it off myself) then I get build failures. Todd
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Do we have to build gcc with fortran now?
* Indi thebeelzebubtrig...@gmail.com [110622 18:59]: On Wed, Jun 22, 2011 at 04:30:01PM -0500, Dale wrote: Then again, I don't fly either. I have told people that if they see me on a plane, close the lid on my coffin. That's the only way I would get on a plane. You haven't lived until you've been up in a small, underpowered ultralight or single engine plane. :) -- caveat utilitor ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? Or flying a small single-engine helicopter solo... Todd
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Do we have to build gcc with fortran now?
* Neil Bothwick n...@digimed.co.uk [110622 20:37]: On Thu, 23 Jun 2011 00:55:10 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote: Helicopters are reserved for those with a death wish Unless the helicopter is an air ambulance, not that what I was doing to require an air ambulance in the first place was particularly sane. -- Neil Bothwick Know thyself. If you need help, call the C.I.A. It seemed ironic that a recent training helicopter crash near here resulted in the survivor being taken off in an air ambulance helicopter. Though most of those I know of are twin engine turbines so chances are good you won't lose both engines at once... Helicopters are for those who are pigheaded enough to want to beat the air into submission. :-) Todd
Re: [gentoo-user] Do we have to build gcc with fortran now?
On Thu, Jun 23, 2011 at 5:05 AM, Todd Goodman t...@bonedaddy.net wrote: * Mark Knecht markkne...@gmail.com [110622 18:35]: On Wed, Jun 22, 2011 at 2:28 PM, Todd Goodman t...@bonedaddy.net wrote: SNIP No actually blas-reference fails to build unless gcc is built with the fortran use flag enabled (since there's no fortran compiler available.) The deps pulling in blas-reference are in my previous mail. Todd If you have virtual/fortran installed then portage will pull in a different Fortran compiler. (ifc on my machine) - Mark Yes of course. Sorry for the imprecise statement. But the point is my profile turns on R by default so just by emerging kde-meta I end up with the GCC fortran compiler and packages that require a fortran compiler. And if the fortran use flag was turned off (either by changes on ~x86 or if I turn it off myself) then I get build failures. Todd Agreed 100%. It's very strange (to me) that kde-meta builds R at all. TTBOMK it's not even remotely a KDE project and of absolutely no value that I can see to the average KDE desktop user. I run R, mostly in a Windows VM because I prefer the GUI, but sometimes in Gentoo also.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Do we have to build gcc with fortran now?
On Thu, Jun 23, 2011 at 08:06:09AM -0400, Todd Goodman wrote: * Indi thebeelzebubtrig...@gmail.com [110622 18:59]: On Wed, Jun 22, 2011 at 04:30:01PM -0500, Dale wrote: Then again, I don't fly either. I have told people that if they see me on a plane, close the lid on my coffin. That's the only way I would get on a plane. You haven't lived until you've been up in a small, underpowered ultralight or single engine plane. :) -- caveat utilitor ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? Or flying a small single-engine helicopter solo... The Scorpion 2 helicopter kit ads in my dad's Popular Mechanics mags way back in the day made a big impression on me. Way more risky than a simple fixed wing or autogyro, and not terribly fuel efficient either... They sure do look like a lot of fun though. :) -- caveat utilitor ♫ ❤ ♫ ❤ ♫ ❤ ♫
Re: [gentoo-user] [OT virtual stuff] gentoo vm appliance
On Thursday, June 23 at 13:45 (+0200), Joost Roeleveld said: Yes the stage4 should work similarly. However Pandu was asking about building .xva which I know nothing about, unless an .xva is similar to/same as a stage4 (I have no idea)? .xva is a format specifically for Citrix Xen. There are tools to convert classic Xen VMs to xva files: http://www.xen.org/files/xva/README I would be willing to assist in getting this tool to work with your program. All I'd need is a copy of your program along with assistance from Pandu Poluan to test the resulting XVA files. I do not run Citrix XenServer and have no need for it as Xen itself works fine for me. Thank you. I downloaded the xva.py script and created a target to create .xva files. The script appeared to run fine. No errors, but I cannot verify that the .xva is good. I used hvm and converted the raw image. The .xva is 4.1G whereras the original raw image is only 414MB (sparse). The .xva appears to be a tar file, but I guess w/o the -S flag passed to gnu tar. My program is hosted on bitbucket[1]. The documentation for it is outdated. -a [1] https://bitbucket.org/marduk/virtual-appliance/wiki/Home
Re: [gentoo-user] [OT virtual stuff] gentoo vm appliance
On Thu, Jun 23, 2011 at 18:18, Albert Hopkins mar...@letterboxes.org wrote: On Thursday, June 23 at 09:54 (+0200), Joost Roeleveld said: Any such program to build XenServer appliances (.xva) ? Shouldn't it work similarly? Eg. start an appliance and install using the stage4? I use Xen directly and as long as I can create and fill the partitions for the VM, any creation tool should work. Yes the stage4 should work similarly. However Pandu was asking about building .xva which I know nothing about, unless an .xva is similar to/same as a stage4 (I have no idea)? Um, an .xva is more like a qcow2 file. With Citrix' XenCenter, all I have to do is import the xva, and XenServer automagically creates a VM with a specified RAM, specified storage, specified cores, etc. Of course these settings (RAM, storage, cores) can be modified post-import, but usually xva-makers already set the settings to the recommended minimum. So, it saves the xva users from planning stage :-) Plus, xva-packaged appliances are usually already configured to run in PV-mode, thus giving the highest performance over XenServer. Rgds, -- Pandu E Poluan ~ IT Optimizer ~ Visit my Blog: http://pepoluan.posterous.com Google Talk: pepoluan Y! messenger: pepoluan MSN / Live: pepol...@hotmail.com (do not send email here) Skype: pepoluan More on me: My LinkedIn Account My Facebook Account
Re: [gentoo-user] [OT virtual stuff] gentoo vm appliance
On Thu, Jun 23, 2011 at 20:12, Albert Hopkins mar...@letterboxes.org wrote: On Thursday, June 23 at 13:45 (+0200), Joost Roeleveld said: Yes the stage4 should work similarly. However Pandu was asking about building .xva which I know nothing about, unless an .xva is similar to/same as a stage4 (I have no idea)? .xva is a format specifically for Citrix Xen. There are tools to convert classic Xen VMs to xva files: http://www.xen.org/files/xva/README I would be willing to assist in getting this tool to work with your program. All I'd need is a copy of your program along with assistance from Pandu Poluan to test the resulting XVA files. I do not run Citrix XenServer and have no need for it as Xen itself works fine for me. Thank you. I downloaded the xva.py script and created a target to create .xva files. The script appeared to run fine. No errors, but I cannot verify that the .xva is good. I used hvm and converted the raw image. The .xva is 4.1G whereras the original raw image is only 414MB (sparse). The .xva appears to be a tar file, but I guess w/o the -S flag passed to gnu tar. My program is hosted on bitbucket[1]. The documentation for it is outdated. -a [1] https://bitbucket.org/marduk/virtual-appliance/wiki/Home I'll give it a drive tomorrow (already 21:13 here in my country) Rgds, -- Pandu E Poluan ~ IT Optimizer ~ Visit my Blog: http://pepoluan.posterous.com Google Talk: pepoluan Y! messenger: pepoluan MSN / Live: pepol...@hotmail.com (do not send email here) Skype: pepoluan
[gentoo-user] Re: Zebra 2844 thermal printer requires driver change when upgrading cups
On 06/22/2011 09:40 AM, Grant wrote: I just upgraded to cups-1.4.6-r2 and my Zebra 2844 thermal label printer wouldn't work until I modified the printer in the CUPS admin interface and chose from the latest set of drivers offered for that printer. I've been bitten by the same problem with a couple of printers, and I finally learned to delete all of the existing cups printers and let cups re-install them after an upgrade. The printing problems can be quite subtle sometimes and the cause is not obvious.
[gentoo-user] nvidia-settings over ssh sees my local GPU?
Hi, BACKGROUND ONLY: I've got a futures trading partner who is attempting to give up Windows if he can. I've helped him install Gentoo on his new machine. The box is up and running and so far very productive for him. We're struggling a bit with getting his three monitor setup working like it did in Windows on his old machine. He has an EVGA NVidia-based GeForce 8400GS along with the onboard Intel Graphics stuff. Our goal is to drive 2 monitors with the NVidia card and 1 with the Intel VGA. My question is about running nvidia-settings. I'm finding that if I shell into his machine using ssh -X -Y -C IP-address and run nvidia-settings I get it displayed here, as it should be. The problem is it is seeing my GTX 465 and not his 8400GS. Anyone know how can I get nvidia-settings to look at his hardware and do nothing but paint the GUI here at my end? Thanks, Mark
Re: [gentoo-user] nvidia-settings over ssh sees my local GPU?
On Thu, 23 Jun 2011 08:54:01 -0700, Mark Knecht wrote: My question is about running nvidia-settings. I'm finding that if I shell into his machine using ssh -X -Y -C IP-address and run nvidia-settings I get it displayed here, as it should be. The problem is it is seeing my GTX 465 and not his 8400GS. Looking at the man page, it appears you need to use the -ctrl-display parameter or the $DISPLAY env var. The man page mentions that nvidia-settings queries the X server, which is running locally. It looks like this setting may force it to use another. -- Neil Bothwick Of all the people I've met you're certainly one of them signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] [OT virtual stuff] gentoo vm appliance
On 06/23/11 07:15, Albert Hopkins wrote: On Thursday, June 23 at 00:35 (-0400), Matthew Finkel said: Oh, don't get me wrong, that's one reason I use qcow2 myself, but it's either something he would have to deal with when he received it or the conversion would increase the size of the disk image that would be shipped to him. Yes, of course a raw image file will typically be bigger than a compressed qcow, just as an unpacked stage4..tar.bz2 file is going to be bigger than the original archive. But in terms transferability, compressed qcows are more efficient since they only include *used* blocks and they are compressed. I can convert the image into any of a number of formats, but the issue then is it will be bigger, and thus take me longer to upload it and the OP to download it Yup, exactly :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] [OT virtual stuff] gentoo vm appliance
On Thursday 23 June 2011 09:12:15 Albert Hopkins wrote: On Thursday, June 23 at 13:45 (+0200), Joost Roeleveld said: Yes the stage4 should work similarly. However Pandu was asking about building .xva which I know nothing about, unless an .xva is similar to/same as a stage4 (I have no idea)? .xva is a format specifically for Citrix Xen. There are tools to convert classic Xen VMs to xva files: http://www.xen.org/files/xva/README I would be willing to assist in getting this tool to work with your program. All I'd need is a copy of your program along with assistance from Pandu Poluan to test the resulting XVA files. I do not run Citrix XenServer and have no need for it as Xen itself works fine for me. Thank you. I downloaded the xva.py script and created a target to create .xva files. The script appeared to run fine. No errors, but I cannot verify that the .xva is good. I used hvm and converted the raw image. The .xva is 4.1G whereras the original raw image is only 414MB (sparse). The .xva appears to be a tar file, but I guess w/o the -S flag passed to gnu tar. Yes, that's what I read on the web as well. A tar-file filled with silly-named files and an XML-file containing the configuration. :) My program is hosted on bitbucket[1]. The documentation for it is outdated. -a [1] https://bitbucket.org/marduk/virtual-appliance/wiki/Home I'll have a look at it later. -- Joost
Re: [gentoo-user] [OT virtual stuff] gentoo vm appliance
On Thursday, June 23 at 12:32 (-0400), Matthew Finkel said: On 06/23/11 07:15, Albert Hopkins wrote: On Thursday, June 23 at 00:35 (-0400), Matthew Finkel said: Oh, don't get me wrong, that's one reason I use qcow2 myself, but it's either something he would have to deal with when he received it or the conversion would increase the size of the disk image that would be shipped to him. Yes, of course a raw image file will typically be bigger than a compressed qcow, just as an unpacked stage4..tar.bz2 file is going to be bigger than the original archive. But in terms transferability, compressed qcows are more efficient since they only include *used* blocks and they are compressed. I can convert the image into any of a number of formats, but the issue then is it will be bigger, and thus take me longer to upload it and the OP to download it Yup, exactly :-) I've uploaded a (390MB) vmdk. I've been told by someone that it works with vmware (not sure what version). This was build just a few minutes ago with the latest stage3 tarball and the latest portage snapshot. http://starship.python.net/crew/marduk/base.vmdk The root password is blank. It will force you to change it on first login.
Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] Re: Do we have to build gcc with fortran now?
On 2011-06-22 19:36, Nikos Chantziaras wrote: It's a programming language. You know, C, C++, stuff like that. Except that it's a zombie-relict from the 1950's that refuses to die because people still programming in it are too lazy to learn a proper, more modern language :-P It refuses to die because it's still very useful in certain niche areas (hpc, numerical computing etc.) where modern languages doesn't cut it... :-) Best regards Peter K
Re: [gentoo-user] nvidia-settings over ssh sees my local GPU?
On Thu, Jun 23, 2011 at 05:21:07PM +0100, Neil Bothwick wrote: On Thu, 23 Jun 2011 08:54:01 -0700, Mark Knecht wrote: My question is about running nvidia-settings. I'm finding that if I shell into his machine using ssh -X -Y -C IP-address and run nvidia-settings I get it displayed here, as it should be. The problem is it is seeing my GTX 465 and not his 8400GS. Looking at the man page, it appears you need to use the -ctrl-display parameter or the $DISPLAY env var. The man page mentions that nvidia-settings queries the X server, which is running locally. It looks like this setting may force it to use another. as neil wrote, it is nvidia-settings -c :0 nvidia-settings connects to the remote xserver to communicate with the graphics card (through a special nvidia xtenstion to the x protocol), so you need to be able to access the remote xserver, if you are logged in as the user running the xserver, you should be ok yoy
Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] Re: Do we have to build gcc with fortran now?
On Thu, 23 Jun 2011 19:23:58 +0200, pk wrote: It refuses to die because it's still very useful in certain niche areas (hpc, numerical computing etc.) where modern languages doesn't cut it... :-) Or so the Fortran programmers with jobs to protect will tell you... You'll be telling us there's still a place for Cobol next :-O -- Neil Bothwick Mmmm, trouble with grammer have I, yes? - Yoda signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] nvidia-settings over ssh sees my local GPU?
On Thu, Jun 23, 2011 at 10:39 AM, YoYo Siska y...@gl.ksp.sk wrote: On Thu, Jun 23, 2011 at 05:21:07PM +0100, Neil Bothwick wrote: On Thu, 23 Jun 2011 08:54:01 -0700, Mark Knecht wrote: My question is about running nvidia-settings. I'm finding that if I shell into his machine using ssh -X -Y -C IP-address and run nvidia-settings I get it displayed here, as it should be. The problem is it is seeing my GTX 465 and not his 8400GS. Looking at the man page, it appears you need to use the -ctrl-display parameter or the $DISPLAY env var. The man page mentions that nvidia-settings queries the X server, which is running locally. It looks like this setting may force it to use another. as neil wrote, it is nvidia-settings -c :0 nvidia-settings connects to the remote xserver to communicate with the graphics card (through a special nvidia xtenstion to the x protocol), so you need to be able to access the remote xserver, if you are logged in as the user running the xserver, you should be ok yoy Yeah, I've been tripping over doing this right since Neil pointed me toward the -c command. I think the problem is that I don't have the permissions set correctly to allow this to work right. The owner of the remote machine is logged in and possibly using X. I'm not sure about that but I'm not 'running the X server' in any meaningful way. I'm just remotely trying to access his GPU with nvidia-settings but display the GUI here. The problem seems to be getting the right number of his server or else permissions. This page is one of the better ones I've found about running nvidia-settings remotely, specifically section 6 which gives this example: http://www.makelinux.com/man/1/A/alt-nvidia-173-settings (issued from bartok.nvidia.com) xhost +stravinsky.nvidia.com (issued from schoenberg.nvidia.com) xhost +stravinsky.nvidia.com nvidia-settings --display=bartok.nvidia.com:0 --ctrl-display=schoenberg.nvidia.com:0 which allows all X clients run on stravinsky.nvidia.com to connect and display on bartok.nvidia.com's X server and configure schoenberg.nvidia.com's X server. It seems this program allows you to run it from machine1, display it on machine2 which controlling machine3? So, locally I ran mark@c2stable ~ $ xhost access control enabled, only authorized clients can connect mark@c2stable ~ $ xhost +DWP-Linux DWP-Linux being added to access control list mark@c2stable ~ $ xhost access control enabled, only authorized clients can connect INET:DWP-Linux mark@c2stable ~ $ which I think allows the remote machine access here in my server. I then log in which creates the .Xauthority file: mark@c2stable ~ $ ssh -XYC DWP-Linux Password: Last login: Thu Jun 23 14:11:33 EDT 2011 from c-67-161-57-1.hsd1.ca.comcast.net on pts/3 /usr/bin/xauth: file /home/mark/.Xauthority does not exist mark@DWP-Linux ~ $ ls -al .Xauthority -rw--- 1 mark mark 55 Jun 23 14:21 .Xauthority mark@DWP-Linux ~ $ cat .Xauthority DWP-Linux11MIT-MAGIC-COOKIE-1��:��T'6�@R��mark@DWP-Linux ~ $ mark@DWP-Linux ~ $ On that machine I see this $DISPLAY: mark@DWP-Linux ~ $ echo $DISPLAY localhost:11.0 mark@DWP-Linux ~ $ so I run mark@DWP-Linux ~ $ nvidia-settings -c :11 which sees my GPU, not his, presumably because I said to control my system with -c :11. However if I try something like mark@DWP-Linux ~ $ nvidia-settings -c :0 I get a bunch of stuff ending with ERROR: Unable to assign attribute XVideoSyncToDisplay specified on line 62 of configuration file '/home/mark/.nvidia-settings-rc' (no Display connection). No protocol specified ERROR: Cannot open display ':0'. mark@DWP-Linux ~ $ I'm a bit lost at this point. (OBVIOUSLY!) :-) Thanks for any guidance, Mark
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Do we have to build gcc with fortran now?
Todd Goodman wrote: * Neil Bothwickn...@digimed.co.uk [110622 20:37]: It seemed ironic that a recent training helicopter crash near here resulted in the survivor being taken off in an air ambulance helicopter. Though most of those I know of are twin engine turbines so chances are good you won't lose both engines at once... Helicopters are for those who are pigheaded enough to want to beat the air into submission. :-) Todd I saw a guy on a TV interview once. He said the only way a helicopter can fly is by brute force. A airplane wants to fly but a helicopter just wants to crash. He said that can be proven by taking your hands off the controls. Down it goes. Having twin engines does help tho. I just don't like the cheapest bidder part tho. I don't usually buy the cheapest part for my car either. That is really true on my brakes. That I want good stuff for. I want good brakes even if the engine runs like crap. I can always stop then get out of the freaking car. lol Of course, that is a bad idea during a ice storm. Unless the car is on fire, the safest place is in the freaking car. o_O Weird huh? Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Do we have to build gcc with fortran now?
Neil Bothwick wrote: On Thu, 23 Jun 2011 05:49:45 -0500, Dale wrote: My question was why are you installing cantor if you don't need it? Oh, I see. It was pulled in by kde-meta. I know I can have KDE other ways but it is much easier to emerge kde-meta than to emerge some huge amount of packages. If you consider spending a couple of days farting around with fortran to be much easier... :P Well, it was working before just fine. I was able to plead ignorance until the dev changed the USE flags on me. That's when it hit the fan. I was better off being ignorant on this one. I could have left it the way it was and looking back, maybe I should have. I dunno. Ignorance is bliss sometimes. Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Do we have to build gcc with fortran now?
On Thu, Jun 23, 2011 at 02:10:34PM -0500, Dale wrote: I saw a guy on a TV interview once. He said the only way a helicopter can fly is by brute force. A airplane wants to fly but a helicopter just wants to crash. He said that can be proven by taking your hands off the controls. Down it goes. True, that's why helicopters are more risky -- especially a home-built single-engine ultralight helicopter. But the maneuverability is amazing in the hands of a well-trained pilot. Having twin engines does help tho. I just don't like the cheapest bidder part tho. I don't usually buy the cheapest part for my car either. That is really true on my brakes. That I want good stuff for. I want good brakes even if the engine runs like crap. I can always stop then get out of the freaking car. lol Of course, that is a bad idea during a ice storm. Unless the car is on fire, the safest place is in the freaking car. o_O Weird huh? The only safe place in this world is the grave. Til you get there, death is always after you. :) -- caveat utilitor ♫ ❤ ♫ ❤ ♫ ❤ ♫
Re: [gentoo-user] portage getting mixed up with USE?
On Thursday 23 June 2011 08:59:53 Sebastian Beßler did opine thusly: Am 23.06.2011 00:58, schrieb Neil Bothwick: On Wed, 22 Jun 2011 21:16:30 +0200, Sebastian Beßler wrote: This new behavior is bad, but not as bad as Windows. This is Gentoo after all and not Ubuntu ;-P :-) In what way is it bad? It is bad because a) it is new, and new stuff is always evil :-P b) it breaks the way portage displays his informations. Without autounmask the display of emerge shows what he is going to do. With autounmask it shows what needs to be done. That is probably the most evil of all your reasons. There's an old dev joke about The Law Of Unintended Consequences, and it applies here - portage is now suddenly doing something new and 180 different from what it used to do. The normal response if WTF? followed by lots of indignation c) it is a big change that came wihout any warning d) it is an automation, and because of that a red flag for any real gentoo user :-D I agree, it's all bad. -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
Re: [gentoo-user] portage getting mixed up with USE?
On Thursday 23 June 2011 13:31:10 Daniel Pielmeier did opine thusly: 2011/6/22 Sebastian Beßler sebast...@darkmetatron.de: Am 22.06.2011 17:31, schrieb Alan McKinnon: On Wednesday 22 June 2011 15:44:40 Neil Bothwick did opine thusly: On Wed, 22 Jun 2011 14:41:57 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote: It is unset here (well, it's not set, actually - same thing) autounmask is set by default, you need to explicitly set it to off. So, is it invisibly on then? I don't have it in make.conf and it's not in FEATURES: It is not a FEATURE its a default option NOTE: This --autounmask behavior can be disabled by setting EMERGE_DEFAULT_OPTS=--autounmask=n in make.conf. Sorry for the confusion by mixing up FEATURES with EMERGE_DEFAULT_OPTS. I did not have a Gentoo machine at hand when writing this. No worries, I had also assumed it was a FEATURE. I'd read about it in Changelogs long before you posted but paid little attention - it's something I wouldn't use, so could ignore it. -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] Re: Do we have to build gcc with fortran now?
On Thursday 23 June 2011 19:16:08 Neil Bothwick did opine thusly: On Thu, 23 Jun 2011 19:23:58 +0200, pk wrote: It refuses to die because it's still very useful in certain niche areas (hpc, numerical computing etc.) where modern languages doesn't cut it... :-) Or so the Fortran programmers with jobs to protect will tell you... You'll be telling us there's still a place for Cobol next :-O Of course there's a place for Cobol, a classic one is in the bank my gf does data warehousing at. There's not a single soul in the entire bank that is willing to sign off on a project to replace the Cobol that has run justfinethanksverymuch for 25+ years -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Do we have to build gcc with fortran now?
On Thursday 23 June 2011 13:09:53 Neil Bothwick did opine thusly: On Thu, 23 Jun 2011 05:49:45 -0500, Dale wrote: My question was why are you installing cantor if you don't need it? Oh, I see. It was pulled in by kde-meta. I know I can have KDE other ways but it is much easier to emerge kde-meta than to emerge some huge amount of packages . If you consider spending a couple of days farting around with fortran to be much easier... :P I use sets for this. I want KDE but not all of it, so I have a set with just the -meta packages I want: $ cat /etc/portage/sets/alan-kde kde-base/kdeadmin-meta kde-base/kdeartwork-meta kde-base/kdebase-meta kde-base/kdebase-runtime-meta kde-base/kdegraphics-meta kde-base/kdemultimedia-meta kde-base/kdenetwork-meta kde-base/kdepim-meta kde-base/kdeutils-meta -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Do we have to build gcc with fortran now?
On Thursday 23 June 2011 09:09:17 Indi did opine thusly: On Thu, Jun 23, 2011 at 08:06:09AM -0400, Todd Goodman wrote: * Indi thebeelzebubtrig...@gmail.com [110622 18:59]: On Wed, Jun 22, 2011 at 04:30:01PM -0500, Dale wrote: Then again, I don't fly either. I have told people that if they see me on a plane, close the lid on my coffin. That's the only way I would get on a plane. You haven't lived until you've been up in a small, underpowered ultralight or single engine plane. :) Or flying a small single-engine helicopter solo... The Scorpion 2 helicopter kit ads in my dad's Popular Mechanics mags way back in the day made a big impression on me. Way more risky than a simple fixed wing or autogyro, and not terribly fuel efficient either... They sure do look like a lot of fun though. When I stand on the balcony at work having a smoke, I look straight at the only helipad within 30 miles (there is one more in the CBD, but it's strictly medical airlift only). Below my feet is the entrance to the parking garage. My house has a flat roof, wouldn't take a lot of effort to erect a platform over it. See where I'm going with this? I was seriously considering importing a single seater heli kit, they are classed as ultralights and do not need a pilot's license. But there's an obscure clause in the rules that states ultralights cannot be flown within 50m of a dwelling. So now I have to be content with only going to work on the V-twin bike -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Do we have to build gcc with fortran now?
On Thursday 23 June 2011 01:12:55 Neil Bothwick did opine thusly: On Thu, 23 Jun 2011 00:55:10 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote: Helicopters are reserved for those with a death wish Unless the helicopter is an air ambulance, not that what I was doing to require an air ambulance in the first place was particularly sane. We won't ask :-) Heli pilots are insane, but have serious flying skillz. Interceptor pilots are not even human, but then again if you bolt a big enough engine onto a brick, it will fly too. [I spent 3 happy years on heli and fighter-bomber squadrons. Those pilots make us look like saints] -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
Re: [gentoo-user] kdepim-4.6.0 woes
On Thursday 23 June 2011 10:22:47 Joost Roeleveld did opine thusly: On Wednesday 22 June 2011 18:02:39 Alan McKinnon wrote: But all this was mild compared to what I did yesterday. You know that notice on the console when you get sudo wrong? It says the incident will be reported OK. But to whom? On my shell boxes it gets reported to me. And yesterday this is what it said: host : Jun 21 11:55:25 : user : 1 incorrect password attempt ; TTY=pts/194 ; PWD=/some/path ; USER=root ; COMMAND=init 6 500 concurrent sessions on that box is routine, it's a major gateway server. That poor user has not recovered yet. You mean, he (or she) will eventually recover? Am curious though, why the attempt for a reboot? It happens about once a week on average - most of those users have multiple telnet sessions open from the Linux machine to Cisco routers. Every time so far they really do want to run sudo, but type it into the wrong terminal. Or worse, they use PuTTY and right-click - PuTTY deals with the cut buffer very differently to the norm on Windows, and right-click doesn't give the usual context menu - by default it's the paste function -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] Re: Do we have to build gcc with fortran now?
On Thursday 23 Jun 2011, Alan McKinnon wrote: On Thursday 23 June 2011 19:16:08 Neil Bothwick did opine thusly: On Thu, 23 Jun 2011 19:23:58 +0200, pk wrote: It refuses to die because it's still very useful in certain niche areas (hpc, numerical computing etc.) where modern languages doesn't cut it... :-) Or so the Fortran programmers with jobs to protect will tell you... You'll be telling us there's still a place for Cobol next :-O Of course there's a place for Cobol, a classic one is in the bank my gf does data warehousing at. There's not a single soul in the entire bank that is willing to sign off on a project to replace the Cobol that has run justfinethanksverymuch for 25+ years It's the latest thing! http://visualcobol.microfocus.com/ -Robin --
Re: [gentoo-user] portage getting mixed up with USE?
On Thursday 23 Jun 2011 08:59:53 Sebastian Beßler wrote: d) it is an automation, and because of that a red flag for any real gentoo user isnt portage itself a huge amount of automation? :P -- - Yohan Pereira A man can do as he will, but not will as he will - Schopenhauer
Re: [gentoo-user] kdepim-4.6.0 woes
On Thursday 23 June 2011 13:36:11 Joost Roeleveld did opine thusly: On Thursday 23 June 2011 05:53:15 Dale wrote: Joost Roeleveld wrote: On Wednesday 22 June 2011 18:02:39 Alan McKinnon wrote: But all this was mild compared to what I did yesterday. You know that notice on the console when you get sudo wrong? It says the incident will be reported OK. But to whom? On my shell boxes it gets reported to me. And yesterday this is what it said: host : Jun 21 11:55:25 :user : 1 incorrect password attempt ; TTY=pts/194 ; PWD=/some/path ; USER=root ; COMMAND=init 6 500 concurrent sessions on that box is routine, it's a major gateway server. That poor user has not recovered yet. You mean, he (or she) will eventually recover? Am curious though, why the attempt for a reboot? I was curious about that too. I don't use sudo, I'm the only geek in the chair here, but I don't think I would want to reboot just because my typing was off. I do use sudo for some scripts as I don't want the script to have root-access to some of the servers and I definitely don't want to add suid-bits to random programs. At my home, I'm not the only one who knows his/her way around computers. But neither of us would consider it a good idea to simply reboot a machine. Given what Alan runs and the amount of people it affects, I'm surprised it is set up that way. Question. You changed that behavior yet Alan? I'm guessing Alan got that because it's not allowed with sudo. If it was, the password-failure wouldn't have been listed. On a single user box, sudo is often a pain in the butt (witness the amount of whinging that goes on with Ubuntu users), so su is probably much better for that. On a large multi-user corporate shell box, you can't avoid needing fine-grained access control and elevated privileges. A choice between running as user alan or root just doesn't cut it, neither does suid. I need to be able to let the senior Cisco jockeys run a router configurator app as the networkadmin role, or let the tape backup fellows run the backup agent as root, without giving them the root password. There's 4 of us in the team, when one resigns it takes all day to change the root passwords everywhere. With 600 login users it just doesn't work at all. So sudo is absolutely required in this neck of the woods. Of course the machine didn't reboot - that user isn't in the wheel group, so sudo gave him the middle finger. That's not the point - /etc/sudoers is there to save my ass, not the user's. The user got the wrath treatment because he made the biggest mistake of them all: He was not paying attention. :-) -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] Re: Do we have to build gcc with fortran now?
On Thursday 23 June 2011 21:04:45 Robin Atwood did opine thusly: On Thursday 23 Jun 2011, Alan McKinnon wrote: On Thursday 23 June 2011 19:16:08 Neil Bothwick did opine thusly: On Thu, 23 Jun 2011 19:23:58 +0200, pk wrote: It refuses to die because it's still very useful in certain niche areas (hpc, numerical computing etc.) where modern languages doesn't cut it... :-) Or so the Fortran programmers with jobs to protect will tell you... You'll be telling us there's still a place for Cobol next :-O Of course there's a place for Cobol, a classic one is in the bank my gf does data warehousing at. There's not a single soul in the entire bank that is willing to sign off on a project to replace the Cobol that has run justfinethanksverymuch for 25+ years It's the latest thing! http://visualcobol.microfocus.com/ I see it this way: Cobol:bank::perl:me Everyone loves to bash both languages but without them absolutely nothing works right :-) -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Do we have to build gcc with fortran now?
On Thu, 23 Jun 2011 21:45:36 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote: If you consider spending a couple of days farting around with fortran to be much easier... :P I use sets for this. I want KDE but not all of it, so I have a set with just the -meta packages I want: I do similar, except I'm even more of a control freak than you, so my kde4 set contains onl;y a couple of meta-packages, the rest it individual packages. % wc -l /etc/portage/sets/kde4 83 /etc/portage/sets/kde4 Sad, I know :( -- Neil Bothwick A computer scientist is someone who, when told to Go to Hell, sees the go to, rather than the destination, as harmful. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Do we have to build gcc with fortran now?
On Thursday 23 June 2011 21:35:21 Neil Bothwick did opine thusly: On Thu, 23 Jun 2011 21:45:36 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote: If you consider spending a couple of days farting around with fortran to be much easier... :P I use sets for this. I want KDE but not all of it, so I have a set with just the -meta packages I want: I do similar, except I'm even more of a control freak than you, so my kde4 set contains onl;y a couple of meta-packages, the rest it individual packages. % wc -l /etc/portage/sets/kde4 83 /etc/portage/sets/kde4 Sad, I know :( Wow, how do you maintain that lot and keep it all straight? KDE devs love adding and removing and renaming stuff between minor versions, mostly just for the hell of it. You could end up with KDE-4.2 packages in there if you don't keep an eye on it :-) -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
[gentoo-user] Fbsplash
Since upgrading my kernel to .39 my beloved splash screen has stopped working. I have followed guidelines in wiki that someone has very kindly written. Reverting back to older kernel the splash screen works as expected. I've tried this on 2 machines. I have seen somewhere that a patch is added to kernel to help this. Is this included in .39? I believe the issue maybe due to /sbin/fbcondecor_helper in initrd but not really too sure. My debugging skills are lacking somewhat. Has anyone else experienced this and can anyone offer an alternative method for producing splash. I am currently using vesafb and splash_geninitramfs to create splash screens? -- John D Maunder j...@articwolf.myzen.co.uk
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Do we have to build gcc with fortran now?
On Wednesday 22 June 2011 18:46:55 Dale wrote: Neil Bothwick wrote: On Wed, 22 Jun 2011 17:54:49 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote: Use a directory for package.use, it makes it far easier to manage. All of /etc/portage/package.* are directories here. I have done that for package.keywords and unmask. In ways it is easier but in ways, it is a nightmare. If something is unmasked, I have to go find the file that unmasked it. I have several since I use autounmask for most of it. Then add in that the new autounmask part of emerge seems to pick a random file to add too. At that point, not much makes sense anymore. grep is your very very good friend Hear, hear! So is giving the files sensible names :) That was what I liked about autounmask, the tree version not the portage one. It gave them some names at least. Still felt like looking for a needle in a haystack sometimes tho. I'm with you, Dale. I have no /etc/portage/package.* directories here on this amd64 box - I just keep entries in alphabetical order in single files. I find it easier. I've also found it much easier to manage flags etc by setting the kde profile (this being a kde box, of course - gnome is too arrogant for me). It makes for a nice, simple USE line in make.conf. -- Rgds Peter
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Do we have to build gcc with fortran now?
On Wednesday 22 June 2011 17:23:44 Mark Knecht wrote: When I removed the fortran flag it didn't change anything because (I suppose) the KDE profile has included it as a default. So it seems. I've just tried USE=-fortran emerge -upDvN world and the only thing that would be remerged because of fortran is gcc. So I'm going to put -fortran into make.conf and see what breaks. -- Rgds Peter
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Do we have to build gcc with fortran now?
On 6/23/2011 1:04 AM, Dale wrote: Mike Edenfield wrote: On 6/22/2011 2:35 PM, Dale wrote: You have decided to build cantor with no backend. To have this application functional, please do one of below: # emerge -va1 '='kde-base/cantor-4.6.4 with 'R' USE flag enabled # emerge -vaDu sci-mathematics/maxima The odds of you ever needing to use cantor are practically nil. And if you did, you'd probably already have R installed and know what FORTRAN was. So, don't worry about it. I never noticed it being there. So, naw I don't need it. Good ole kde-meta pulled it in tho. My point was, you can install cantor without R (or maxima) and it will complain loudly that I'm installing myself broken!... but it *will* install. And if you never run it, you never need R, thus you never need +fortran, and your gcc will be much happier. --Mike
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Do we have to build gcc with fortran now?
On Thursday 23 June 2011 20:54:03 Alan McKinnon wrote: I was seriously considering importing a single seater heli kit, they are classed as ultralights and do not need a pilot's license. But there's an obscure clause in the rules that states ultralights cannot be flown within 50m of a dwelling. So now I have to be content with only going to work on the V-twin bike No, all you need is a pad 50m tall. :) -- Rgds Peter
Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] Re: Do we have to build gcc with fortran now?
On Thursday 23 June 2011 18:23:58 pk wrote: On 2011-06-22 19:36, Nikos Chantziaras wrote: It's a programming language. You know, C, C++, stuff like that. Except that it's a zombie-relict from the 1950's that refuses to die because people still programming in it are too lazy to learn a proper, more modern language :-P It refuses to die because it's still very useful in certain niche areas (hpc, numerical computing etc.) where modern languages doesn't cut it... :-) FORmula TRANslator. it keeps your lights on, as likely as not. Last I looked, electricity power grids were kept alive with fortran doing the calculations. Mind you, I am going back a little way. -- Rgds Peter
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Do we have to build gcc with fortran now?
On Thu, 23 Jun 2011 23:06:28 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote: I do similar, except I'm even more of a control freak than you, so my kde4 set contains onl;y a couple of meta-packages, the rest it individual packages. % wc -l /etc/portage/sets/kde4 83 /etc/portage/sets/kde4 Sad, I know :( Wow, how do you maintain that lot and keep it all straight? KDE devs love adding and removing and renaming stuff between minor versions, mostly just for the hell of it. You could end up with KDE-4.2 packages in there if you don't keep an eye on it :-) The KDE ebuilds barf if you try to mix versions, if a package is removed or renamed from a later release, portage lets me know! If means I don't get to know about any new additions, but I can read about those on kde.org -- Neil Bothwick You have the capacity to learn from mistakes. You'll learn a lot today. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Do we have to build gcc with fortran now?
On Thu, 23 Jun 2011 22:27:53 +0100, Peter Humphrey wrote: So is giving the files sensible names :) That was what I liked about autounmask, the tree version not the portage one. It gave them some names at least. Still felt like looking for a needle in a haystack sometimes tho. I'm with you, Dale. I have no /etc/portage/package.* directories here on this amd64 box - I just keep entries in alphabetical order in single files. I find it easier. That doesn't help with linked packages with different names. If foo requires libbar with USE=snafu, I put it in/etc/portage/package.use/foo Then if I remove foo, I remove the use file. If they were alphabetically sorted, and therefore separate, in one file, I wouldn't make the connection. And I don't have to worry about sorting package.use every time I make a change, ls does that for me. -- Neil Bothwick God is real, unless specifically declared integer. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] portage getting mixed up with USE?
On Thu, 23 Jun 2011 21:38:58 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote: On Thursday 23 June 2011 08:59:53 Sebastian Beßler did opine thusly: b) it breaks the way portage displays his informations. Without autounmask the display of emerge shows what he is going to do. With autounmask it shows what needs to be done. That is probably the most evil of all your reasons. There's an old dev joke about The Law Of Unintended Consequences, and it applies here - portage is now suddenly doing something new and 180 different from what it used to do. The normal response if WTF? followed by lots of indignation Ah, the old we do it that way because that's the way it's always been done argument. Yes, it is different, yes, it may be confusing when you first encounter the change - but that doesn't make it bad. c) it is a big change that came wihout any warning Apart from the elog messages? d) it is an automation, and because of that a red flag for any real gentoo user :-D What are you talking about? The default setting only displays the changes that need to be made, there is no automation. You need to enable a setting, one that only an idiot would enable without adding --ask too, before anything is automatically written to a file. I agree, it's all bad. Here's the change: Old way: Portage complained about a flag or mask setting that needed to be changed. You changed it and tried again. Portage complained about another change it needed. Rinse and repeat until either all requirements are satisfied or you give up in disgust. New way: Portage gives you a list of all the changes that need to be made and lets you either make them yourself or tells you about an option to have it do it for you. I thought even Gentoo users believed in letting the computer do all the tedious works, otherwise they'd be running LFS. -- Neil Bothwick UNILINGUAL: American. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Do we have to build gcc with fortran now?
On Wednesday 22 June 2011 23:34:17 Mike Edenfield wrote: Odds are one of your 1.5quadrillion USE flags is pulling in FORTRAN when you don't even need it. It may not be. I have only four USE flags in make.conf, and still I have the same fortran requirement as Dale. -- Rgds Peter
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Do we have to build gcc with fortran now?
Peter Humphrey wrote: On Wednesday 22 June 2011 17:23:44 Mark Knecht wrote: When I removed the fortran flag it didn't change anything because (I suppose) the KDE profile has included it as a default. So it seems. I've just tried USE=-fortran emerge -upDvN world and the only thing that would be remerged because of fortran is gcc. So I'm going to put -fortran into make.conf and see what breaks. It will break several things. This is what I just went through. It appears that if you emerge kde-meta, you have to have a fortran type compiler. So, you may as well keep what you got if it is working. When I started going down this road, I thought I could just disable fortran and have less packages installed. That is not the case. I removed fortran then had to replace that with even more packages than I had to begin with. If it works with fortran turned on, I'd leave it alone. With hindsight, I should have left well enough alone anyway. It wasn't hurting a thing. Watch the elog messages. It will tell you at some point to either enable fortran or emerge some other package that I forget the name of. That one package pulled several dependencies on my rig. YMMV. Just my $0.02 for whatever that's worth. Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Do we have to build gcc with fortran now?
On Wednesday 22 June 2011 14:25:21 Indi wrote: IMO the USE line in make.conf really should only contain the universal stuff you can't live without, specifying everything else on a per package basis is what makes it possible to run a system which is at once full-featured and lean. My method is to put a USE flag into make.conf if it's described in use.desc; otherwise it goes into package.use if it's in use.local.desc. Seems to keep me out of trouble most of the time. -- Rgds Peter
Re: [gentoo-user] Do we have to build gcc with fortran now?
On Wednesday 22 June 2011 16:50:10 Dale wrote: If you use KDE like me, be prepared to put the thing back tho. Some KDE packages depend on things that seem to need it enabled. Looks like it's only packages that are pulled in by kdeedu-meta. Do you need all those? -- Rgds Peter
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Do we have to build gcc with fortran now?
Mike Edenfield wrote: On 6/23/2011 1:04 AM, Dale wrote: Mike Edenfield wrote: On 6/22/2011 2:35 PM, Dale wrote: You have decided to build cantor with no backend. To have this application functional, please do one of below: # emerge -va1 '='kde-base/cantor-4.6.4 with 'R' USE flag enabled # emerge -vaDu sci-mathematics/maxima The odds of you ever needing to use cantor are practically nil. And if you did, you'd probably already have R installed and know what FORTRAN was. So, don't worry about it. I never noticed it being there. So, naw I don't need it. Good ole kde-meta pulled it in tho. My point was, you can install cantor without R (or maxima) and it will complain loudly that I'm installing myself broken!... but it *will* install. And if you never run it, you never need R, thus you never need +fortran, and your gcc will be much happier. --Mike I was hoping to trim a little fat not break things. I may never need cantor but if I do, I would like it to work without me having to figure out why it is broke. Plus, next time a upgrade comes along, I got issues again. It's going to pull in a update that fails to compile and its going to upset me greatly, much more so than having fortran or whatever installed. Maybe you wasn't around during the GREAT hal and xorg mess I ran into. Trust me, it wasn't steam, it was flames. I would like to avoid that. I wanted to wring that nerds neck for rendering my keyboard and rat useless. :-@ Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] Fbsplash
John wrote: Since upgrading my kernel to .39 my beloved splash screen has stopped working. I have followed guidelines in wiki that someone has very kindly written. Reverting back to older kernel the splash screen works as expected. I've tried this on 2 machines. I have seen somewhere that a patch is added to kernel to help this. Is this included in .39? I believe the issue maybe due to /sbin/fbcondecor_helper in initrd but not really too sure. My debugging skills are lacking somewhat. Has anyone else experienced this and can anyone offer an alternative method for producing splash. I am currently using vesafb and splash_geninitramfs to create splash screens? I have noticed that people seem to have various issues with .39. Maybe roll back to a older kernel and give it a few versions to get some fixes in. I had X issues, someone else had some network issue and someone else has some other odd issue. I think .39 is currently a lemon. If you can make it with the old .38 version, I would. At least for a little bit anyway. Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] Do we have to build gcc with fortran now?
On Wednesday 22 June 2011 23:35:37 Dale wrote: Maybe we have something different then. I don't have blas-reference on here anymore either. My point was, disabling fortran to remove it only lead to other stuff being required. I think there is more on here now than there was before. So, removing fortran to get rid of bloat didn't help any because it just required a different set of bloat. Maybe it's time to make a backup, then remove all USE flags from make.conf and package.use, set your profile to default/linux/arch/10.0/desktop/kde and rebuild. Alan and Neil's idea of a set of the meta-packages you want sounds good to me too. Then you'll really have a clean system. I may follow suit - I built this system with kde-meta for simplicity, but of course it now has a lot of stuff I don't want, including Fortran. I tried rebuilding with -fortran as I said a few minutes ago, but portage wanted ifc instead. -- Rgds Peter
Re: [gentoo-user] /etc/machine-id ???
Joost Roeleveld jo...@antarean.org [11-06-23 17:52]: On Thursday 23 June 2011 04:49:57 meino.cra...@gmx.de wrote: Hi, I found a file /etc/machine-id on my linux box. I did a qfile for this and nothing was found. What purpose is that file and can I delete it without problems? Best regards, mcc I don't have that file on any of my machines, however, a quick google reveals this may be related to dbus: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/dbus/2011-March/014188.html Maybe someone else can shed some more light on this? -- Joost I dont like the idea of haveing something on my box, which make it identificable or unique ... thinking of the diskussion of the use and misuse of a CPU-ID. Reading /dev/urandom instead is more what it should be in my opinion, since that changes from boot to boot... Paranoia is your best friend ;-/ mcc
Re: [gentoo-user] portage getting mixed up with USE?
On Thursday 23 June 2011 23:06:00 Neil Bothwick did opine thusly: b) it breaks the way portage displays his informations. Without autounmask the display of emerge shows what he is going to do. With autounmask it shows what needs to be done. That is probably the most evil of all your reasons. There's an old dev joke about The Law Of Unintended Consequences, and it applies here - portage is now suddenly doing something new and 180 different from what it used to do. The normal response if WTF? followed by lots of indignation Ah, the old we do it that way because that's the way it's always been done argument. Yes, it is different, yes, it may be confusing when you first encounter the change - but that doesn't make it bad. The thing itself is neither inherently good nor bad. Implementing it in this way is bad. Why? Because the behaviour changed to something that is the exact opposite without any warning. Portage always used to tell what it will do. Now, simply by leaving the relevant options at the default, it tells me what it should do. How much more contrary to reasonable expectation can you get? Imagine if tcpwrappers did this. Imagine that hosts.deny was dropped and hosts.allow retained, also imagine that the desired config file name becomes hosts.tcpd but it will use hosts.allow if hosts.tcpd is not found. Now also imagine that the default interpretation of hosts.tcpd is now default deny, explicit allow. All your rules now suddenly invert. Chaos ensues. Sure, it's a contrived example, but it's also a very good example of why one never suddenly and without warning changes default behaviour to the opposite. Few people will argue against the existence of the new unmask options. Folk who want it can use it. Just don't make it the default in such a way that it catches old time users by surprise. -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
Re: [gentoo-user] Do we have to build gcc with fortran now?
Peter Humphrey wrote: On Wednesday 22 June 2011 16:50:10 Dale wrote: If you use KDE like me, be prepared to put the thing back tho. Some KDE packages depend on things that seem to need it enabled. Looks like it's only packages that are pulled in by kdeedu-meta. Do you need all those? I install with kde-meta. It pulls about all things KDE in with that. For me, it is better to use kde-meta than to do it any other way. Even with kde-meta, I think there is a few that I still had to emerge manually. YMMV tho. Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Do we have to build gcc with fortran now?
On Thursday 23 June 2011 22:47:54 Peter Humphrey did opine thusly: On Thursday 23 June 2011 20:54:03 Alan McKinnon wrote: I was seriously considering importing a single seater heli kit, they are classed as ultralights and do not need a pilot's license. But there's an obscure clause in the rules that states ultralights cannot be flown within 50m of a dwelling. So now I have to be content with only going to work on the V-twin bike No, all you need is a pad 50m tall. :) Brilliant! I hadn't thought of that! Must be getting old :-) Or I could just two birds one stone: http://www.hover-bike.com/ -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
Re: [gentoo-user] Fbsplash
On Thursday 23 June 2011 17:28:15 Dale did opine thusly: John wrote: Since upgrading my kernel to .39 my beloved splash screen has stopped working. I have followed guidelines in wiki that someone has very kindly written. Reverting back to older kernel the splash screen works as expected. I've tried this on 2 machines. I have seen somewhere that a patch is added to kernel to help this. Is this included in .39? I believe the issue maybe due to /sbin/fbcondecor_helper in initrd but not really too sure. My debugging skills are lacking somewhat. Has anyone else experienced this and can anyone offer an alternative method for producing splash. I am currently using vesafb and splash_geninitramfs to create splash screens? I have noticed that people seem to have various issues with .39. Maybe roll back to a older kernel and give it a few versions to get some fixes in. I had X issues, someone else had some network issue and someone else has some other odd issue. I think .39 is currently a lemon. If you can make it with the old .38 version, I would. At least for a little bit anyway. .39 screwed up my nouveau frame buffer, took a lot of frantic hit and miss with graphics options to get it back. .38 was rock-solid I wonder what 3.0 will be like -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
Re: [gentoo-user] Do we have to build gcc with fortran now?
On Thursday 23 June 2011 23:30:04 Peter Humphrey did opine thusly: On Wednesday 22 June 2011 23:35:37 Dale wrote: Maybe we have something different then. I don't have blas-reference on here anymore either. My point was, disabling fortran to remove it only lead to other stuff being required. I think there is more on here now than there was before. So, removing fortran to get rid of bloat didn't help any because it just required a different set of bloat. Maybe it's time to make a backup, then remove all USE flags from make.conf and package.use, set your profile to default/linux/arch/10.0/desktop/kde and rebuild. Alan and Neil's idea of a set of the meta-packages you want sounds good to me too. Then you'll really have a clean system. You will have whatever system the profile maintainer thinks the average user should have, bloated to whatever degree said maintainer thinks is a good idea. No USE flags set does not mean no options set, it means default. And default sets plenty flags ON I may follow suit - I built this system with kde-meta for simplicity, but of course it now has a lot of stuff I don't want, including Fortran. I tried rebuilding with -fortran as I said a few minutes ago, but portage wanted ifc instead. kde-meta gives you all the stuff that's useful on the average system, plus all of accessibility, kdebindings, kdeedu, games, the sdk, toys and maybe even webdev. I can't think of the kind of user that truly does actually need all of that. -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
Re: [gentoo-user] Do we have to build gcc with fortran now?
On 6/23/2011 6:22 PM, Peter Humphrey wrote: On Wednesday 22 June 2011 16:50:10 Dale wrote: If you use KDE like me, be prepared to put the thing back tho. Some KDE packages depend on things that seem to need it enabled. Looks like it's only packages that are pulled in by kdeedu-meta. Do you need all those? It's one package (cantor) that has one dependency (R) that is optional (USE=-R) that falls squarely into the if you aren't sure if you need it then you probably don't category. So for most users, no, you don't need to build gcc with fortran. Dale's just playing it safe, I guess, after the admittedly scary I'm all broken and stuff! warning message cantor throws at you. --Mike
Re: [gentoo-user] portage getting mixed up with USE?
On 6/23/2011 6:31 PM, Alan McKinnon wrote: On Thursday 23 June 2011 23:06:00 Neil Bothwick did opine thusly: b) it breaks the way portage displays his informations. Without autounmask the display of emerge shows what he is going to do. With autounmask it shows what needs to be done. That is probably the most evil of all your reasons. There's an old dev joke about The Law Of Unintended Consequences, and it applies here - portage is now suddenly doing something new and 180 different from what it used to do. The normal response if WTF? followed by lots of indignation Ah, the old we do it that way because that's the way it's always been done argument. Yes, it is different, yes, it may be confusing when you first encounter the change - but that doesn't make it bad. The thing itself is neither inherently good nor bad. Implementing it in this way is bad. Why? Because the behaviour changed to something that is the exact opposite without any warning. Portage always used to tell what it will do. Now, simply by leaving the relevant options at the default, it tells me what it should do. How much more contrary to reasonable expectation can you get? I thought the old behavior was portage would tell me why it's not going to do anything, vs. the new behavior of portage will tell me why it's not going to do anything, plus offer to fix it for me. Unless I'm missing something about the pre-auto-unmask behavior? (Which is entirely likely..) --Mike
Re: [gentoo-user] Do we have to build gcc with fortran now?
On Thu, Jun 23, 2011 at 3:36 PM, Dale rdalek1...@gmail.com wrote: SNIP I install with kde-meta. It pulls about all things KDE in with that. For me, it is better to use kde-meta than to do it any other way. Even with kde-meta, I think there is a few that I still had to emerge manually. kde-meta say (to me) 'I want everything KDE has to offer'. This seems completely inconsistent with 'I was hoping to trim a little fat'. I understand both POV's. I also understand absolute vacuum and a neutron star. Problem is you don't normally find them both in the same area at the same time! ;-) - Mark
Re: [gentoo-user] Fbsplash
On Thu, Jun 23, 2011 at 3:42 PM, Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com wrote: SNIP I wonder what 3.0 will be like Newer... ;-)
Re: [gentoo-user] Fbsplash
Mark Knecht wrote: On Thu, Jun 23, 2011 at 3:42 PM, Alan McKinnonalan.mckin...@gmail.com wrote: SNIP I wonder what 3.0 will be like Newer... ;-) Newer problems right? :-P Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Do we have to build gcc with fortran now?
On Thursday 23 June 2011 22:57:16 Neil Bothwick wrote: On Thu, 23 Jun 2011 22:27:53 +0100, Peter Humphrey wrote: So is giving the files sensible names :) That was what I liked about autounmask, the tree version not the portage one. It gave them some names at least. Still felt like looking for a needle in a haystack sometimes tho. I'm with you, Dale. I have no /etc/portage/package.* directories here on this amd64 box - I just keep entries in alphabetical order in single files. I find it easier. That doesn't help with linked packages with different names. If foo requires libbar with USE=snafu, I put it in/etc/portage/package.use/foo Then if I remove foo, I remove the use file. If they were alphabetically sorted, and therefore separate, in one file, I wouldn't make the connection. An occasional use of eix-test-obsolete does well enough for me. I ran it just now after several months, and it found one redundant entry in package.keywords (for libreoffice). And I don't have to worry about sorting package.use every time I make a change, ls does that for me. I don't sort it; I put entries in in the right order to start with. An occasional entry put there by autounmask is demarcated anyway, so they're easy to see, and to delete when no longer needed. It works well for me, but we all have different foibles. -- Rgds Peter
Re: [gentoo-user] Do we have to build gcc with fortran now?
Peter Humphrey wrote: On Wednesday 22 June 2011 23:35:37 Dale wrote: Maybe we have something different then. I don't have blas-reference on here anymore either. My point was, disabling fortran to remove it only lead to other stuff being required. I think there is more on here now than there was before. So, removing fortran to get rid of bloat didn't help any because it just required a different set of bloat. Maybe it's time to make a backup, then remove all USE flags from make.conf and package.use, set your profile to default/linux/arch/10.0/desktop/kde and rebuild. Alan and Neil's idea of a set of the meta-packages you want sounds good to me too. Then you'll really have a clean system. I may follow suit - I built this system with kde-meta for simplicity, but of course it now has a lot of stuff I don't want, including Fortran. I tried rebuilding with -fortran as I said a few minutes ago, but portage wanted ifc instead. Yep. On my machine, it pulled in about a dozen or so new packages to replace R and fortran being disabled on gcc. I'm not sure I made my system any leaner or cleaner. I actually may have done the opposite. Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Do we have to build gcc with fortran now?
On Thursday 23 June 2011 23:41:04 Alan McKinnon wrote: I could just two birds one stone: http://www.hover-bike.com/ Hmm. I'd like to see one more figure: dBA! -- Rgds Peter
Re: [gentoo-user] Do we have to build gcc with fortran now?
On Thursday 23 June 2011 23:48:11 Alan McKinnon wrote: On Thursday 23 June 2011 23:30:04 Peter Humphrey did opine thusly: On Wednesday 22 June 2011 23:35:37 Dale wrote: Maybe we have something different then. I don't have blas-reference on here anymore either. My point was, disabling fortran to remove it only lead to other stuff being required. I think there is more on here now than there was before. So, removing fortran to get rid of bloat didn't help any because it just required a different set of bloat. Maybe it's time to make a backup, then remove all USE flags from make.conf and package.use, set your profile to default/linux/arch/10.0/desktop/kde and rebuild. Alan and Neil's idea of a set of the meta-packages you want sounds good to me too. Then you'll really have a clean system. You will have whatever system the profile maintainer thinks the average user should have, bloated to whatever degree said maintainer thinks is a good idea. Yes, of course. My point is that you can forget about maintaining all those USE flags yourself. No USE flags set does not mean no options set, it means default. And default sets plenty flags ON I may follow suit - I built this system with kde-meta for simplicity, but of course it now has a lot of stuff I don't want, including Fortran. I tried rebuilding with -fortran as I said a few minutes ago, but portage wanted ifc instead. kde-meta gives you all the stuff that's useful on the average system, plus all of accessibility, kdebindings, kdeedu, games, the sdk, toys and maybe even webdev. I know, and I used to take the time to find all the things I did want and just install those. I used kde-meta this once just from laziness. Now I get to keep the whole hog-roast. I can't think of the kind of user that truly does actually need all of that. Me neither. So maybe the time's approaching when I go and slim the whole shebang down. It'll have to wait until I've finished the current round of redesign of my website though. 177 pages to modify - that should keep me off the street corners for a while. -- Rgds Peter
Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] Re: Do we have to build gcc with fortran now?
On Thu, Jun 23, 2011 at 07:16:08PM +0100, Neil Bothwick wrote On Thu, 23 Jun 2011 19:23:58 +0200, pk wrote: It refuses to die because it's still very useful in certain niche areas (hpc, numerical computing etc.) where modern languages doesn't cut it... :-) Or so the Fortran programmers with jobs to protect will tell you... Actually, it was what non-professional programmers used before computer spreadsheet programs existed. It was just the thing for crunching numbers and text. It was because it was used by non-professional programmers that so many old Fortran programs are spaghetti code. A properly-written, structured Fortran program is quite usable and easily followed. -- Walter Dnes waltd...@waltdnes.org
[gentoo-user] [OT/rant] Self-replicating programmer stupidity
I've been reading the monthly security bulletin from sans.org for several years. During that time I've noticed some recurring themes, including multiple appearances from Adobe products like Flash. Another recurring theme is ftp servers (of which there are dozens) like this month's report: Platform: Cross Platform Title: Wing FTP Server ssh public key Authentication Security Bypass Vulnerability Description: Wing FTP Server is a secure file server for Windows, Linux, Mac, FreeBSD and Solaris. Wing FTP Server is exposed to a security bypass issue that affects the SSH authentication mechanism. Versions prior to Wing FTP Server 3.8.8 are affected. Ref: http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/48335/info Mind you, this is the first time I've seen Wing mentioned, but over the years there have been dozens of other ftp servers cited for other flaws in security. My question: WTF uses these poorly written ftp servers? Why do they exist? Who asked for them? Who wrote the code, and why? My tentative guess: either evil programmers, or incompetent programmers. (I suspect the intersection of the two sets is very small.) Many years ago when I was still using M$ Windows I wrote my own hex editor in Visual Basic. I can't explain why I chose to do it, other than as an exercise to learn Visual Basic. (I haven't used it since.) I'm quite certain that my hex editor would flunk even the most basic security tests today because I wasn't programming with security in mind. (In other words, I was the rankest of amateurs.) I'm running out of indignation now, and going to bed, but I'd welcome other indignant comments :)
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Do we have to build gcc with fortran now?
On Wed, Jun 22, 2011 at 07:13:46AM -0700, Mark Knecht wrote No non-matching entries in /etc/portage/package.keywords. No non-matching entries in /etc/portage/package.accept_keywords. No non-matching entries in /etc/portage/package.mask. No non-matching entries in /etc/portage/package.unmask. No non-matching or empty entries in /etc/portage/package.use. No non-matching or empty entries in /etc/portage/package.env. No non-matching or empty entries in /etc/portage/package.cflags. While we're at it... 1) what's the difference between package.keywords and package.accept_keywords? 2) what does package.env do? 3) does package.cflags specify package-specific cflags? What about cxxflags? -- Walter Dnes waltd...@waltdnes.org
Re: [gentoo-user] portage getting mixed up with USE?
On Thu, 23 Jun 2011 18:56:19 -0400, Mike Edenfield wrote: I thought the old behavior was portage would tell me why it's not going to do anything, vs. the new behavior of portage will tell me why it's not going to do anything, plus offer to fix it for me. Not quite. The old behaviour was that portage would tell you the first reason it wasn't going to do anything. You had to fix that and try again to get the second reason, again and again. -- Neil Bothwick Minds are like parachutes; they only function when fully open. * Sir James Dewar signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] portage getting mixed up with USE?
On Fri, 24 Jun 2011 00:31:38 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote: Because the behaviour changed to something that is the exact opposite without any warning. Portage always used to tell what it will do. Now, simply by leaving the relevant options at the default, it tells me what it should do. How much more contrary to reasonable expectation can you get? It's not the exact opposite. Portage is still telling you what it needs, but all in one go, not one problem at a time. Imagine if tcpwrappers did this. Imagine that hosts.deny was dropped and hosts.allow retained, also imagine that the desired config file name becomes hosts.tcpd but it will use hosts.allow if hosts.tcpd is not found. Now also imagine that the default interpretation of hosts.tcpd is now default deny, explicit allow. All your rules now suddenly invert. Chaos ensues. Sure, it's a contrived example, Not only contrived, but irrelevant. Because tcpwrappers actually does something. If your USE flags are unsuitable, portage actually does nothing. All that's changed is how it tells you why it has done nothing. Few people will argue against the existence of the new unmask options. Folk who want it can use it. Just don't make it the default in such a way that it catches old time users by surprise. I must admit, although I read about the new option, probably in an elog message, I was surprised the first time it kicked in when I hadn't turned it on. Although it was not a bad surprised and I then recalled that the message had explained that this was now the default behaviour. One of the unwritten rules of Gentoo is that if you don't read elog messages, you can expect to get burned. -- Neil Bothwick What do you do when you see an endangered animal eating an endangered plant? signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Do we have to build gcc with fortran now?
On Thu, 23 Jun 2011 20:01:30 -0400, Walter Dnes wrote: 1) what's the difference between package.keywords and package.accept_keywords? The latter is the new name for the former. -- Neil Bothwick Last words of a Windows user: = Why does that work now? signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Do we have to build gcc with fortran now?
On Wed, Jun 22, 2011 at 01:15:04PM -0500, Dale wrote Todd Goodman wrote: My solution is to force -R in make.conf Let me make a note of that, in make.conf of course. ;-) Years ago, I changed to starting my USE line with -* and adding what I needed, either in /etc/make.conf or in /etc/package.use. This was right after ipv6 was added to the defaults. The ipv6 fiasco was an interesting experience, to say the least. -- Walter Dnes waltd...@waltdnes.org
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Do we have to build gcc with fortran now?
On Thu, 23 Jun 2011 23:18:48 +0100, Peter Humphrey wrote: My method is to put a USE flag into make.conf if it's described in use.desc; otherwise it goes into package.use if it's in use.local.desc. I use that as a general rule too, although there is the situation where a flag moves from local to global. -- Neil Bothwick I'm not opinionated, I'm just always right! signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Do we have to build gcc with fortran now?
On Thu, 23 Jun 2011 18:54:14 -0400, Mike Edenfield wrote: It's one package (cantor) that has one dependency (R) that is optional (USE=-R) that falls squarely into the if you aren't sure if you need it then you probably don't category. So for most users, no, you don't need to build gcc with fortran. That's not the only one. Digikam has a hard depend on clapack, which requires virtual/blas and thus a Fortran compiler. -- Neil Bothwick Programmer (n): A red-eyed, mumbling mammal capable of conversing with inanimate objects. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
[gentoo-user] about the minimal install isos
I just happened to run into a situation where rsync would have been really handy to have on board while booting a minimal install iso. I was surprised to find rsync was not amongst the onboard tools. Isn't rsync a pretty basic tool to be missing from a bootable install disc? I realize I can make my own, or even just emerge rsync for the duration but still it seems that rsync should be there? Just a suggestion of course but what do others think about it?
[gentoo-user] Re: [OT/rant] Self-replicating programmer stupidity
walt w41...@gmail.com writes: I've been reading the monthly security bulletin from sans.org for several years. During that time I've noticed some recurring themes, including multiple appearances from Adobe products like Flash. Another recurring theme is ftp servers (of which there are dozens) like this month's report: Platform: Cross Platform Title: Wing FTP Server ssh public key Authentication Security Bypass Vulnerability Description: Wing FTP Server is a secure file server for Windows, Linux, Mac, FreeBSD and Solaris. Wing FTP Server is exposed to a security bypass issue that affects the SSH authentication mechanism. Versions prior to Wing FTP Server 3.8.8 are affected. Ref: http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/48335/info Mind you, this is the first time I've seen Wing mentioned, but over the years there have been dozens of other ftp servers cited for other flaws in security. My question: WTF uses these poorly written ftp servers? Why do they exist? Who asked for them? Who wrote the code, and why? My tentative guess: either evil programmers, or incompetent programmers. (I suspect the intersection of the two sets is very small.) Many years ago when I was still using M$ Windows I wrote my own hex editor in Visual Basic. I can't explain why I chose to do it, other than as an exercise to learn Visual Basic. (I haven't used it since.) I'm quite certain that my hex editor would flunk even the most basic security tests today because I wasn't programming with security in mind. (In other words, I was the rankest of amateurs.) I'm running out of indignation now, and going to bed, but I'd welcome other indignant comments :) Egad, such foolishness. What's wrong with them... (How did I do for indignant? ; ) )
Re: [gentoo-user] [OT/rant] Self-replicating programmer stupidity
On 06/23/11 19:54, walt wrote: I've been reading the monthly security bulletin from sans.org for several years. During that time I've noticed some recurring themes, including multiple appearances from Adobe products like Flash. Another recurring theme is ftp servers (of which there are dozens) like this month's report: Platform: Cross Platform Title: Wing FTP Server ssh public key Authentication Security Bypass Vulnerability Description: Wing FTP Server is a secure file server for Windows, Linux, Mac, FreeBSD and Solaris. Wing FTP Server is exposed to a security bypass issue that affects the SSH authentication mechanism. Versions prior to Wing FTP Server 3.8.8 are affected. Ref: http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/48335/info Mind you, this is the first time I've seen Wing mentioned, but over the years there have been dozens of other ftp servers cited for other flaws in security. My question: WTF uses these poorly written ftp servers? Why do they exist? Who asked for them? Who wrote the code, and why? My tentative guess: either evil programmers, or incompetent programmers. (I suspect the intersection of the two sets is very small.) Many years ago when I was still using M$ Windows I wrote my own hex editor in Visual Basic. I can't explain why I chose to do it, other than as an exercise to learn Visual Basic. (I haven't used it since.) I'm quite certain that my hex editor would flunk even the most basic security tests today because I wasn't programming with security in mind. (In other words, I was the rankest of amateurs.) I'm running out of indignation now, and going to bed, but I'd welcome other indignant comments :) Programming secure software is not the easiest task to master. It takes a lot of planning and enough knowledge about the components you're using to know exactly how they all work together, as well as how they are not supposed to be used. In many cases, vulnerabilities originate from lack of knowledge in novice programmers. Other's are just something that was overlooked in the planning stage, which becomes much more possible as the size of the program increases. And, of course, sometimes people make a mistake. As for the ftp(, etc) programs, this is what you get in the FOSS world. I'm not referring to the programs with security hole, but to the abundance of available programs of all shapes and sizes. Many are great, some are not; but you have the option to pick and choose which work best for you. The same is generally true for proprietary software too. No one necessarily asked for them, but it was a choice the dev made to spend the time to write the program. It's possible they purposefully implemented a flawed security model, but I don't *think* that's usually the case (but I could just be very naive). Personally, I don't know why anyone would pay for software anymore, but that's just me :-P
[gentoo-user] MP3 device not automatically detected by KDE
Hi This device is a 2GB USB MP3 player, and is detected by the kernel as having no partition; it is VFAT formated, it is not automatically detected by KDE, but mounting it (in root account) is straightforward; I've copied a bunch of mp3 files to it and the device plays them normally. Where would it be problem? KDE detects all other devices, with or without partitioning, in different file formats (VFAT, NTFS, EXT3, ...). Another MP3 player, for example, but it is only 1GByte. Could the capacity of the device be the key? Thanks Francisco If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchange apples then you and I will still each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have one idea and we exchange these ideas, then each of us will have two ideas. - George Bernard Shaw
[gentoo-user] Re: Do we have to build gcc with fortran now?
On 06/24/2011 01:16 AM, Dale wrote: Peter Humphrey wrote: On Wednesday 22 June 2011 17:23:44 Mark Knecht wrote: When I removed the fortran flag it didn't change anything because (I suppose) the KDE profile has included it as a default. So it seems. I've just tried USE=-fortran emerge -upDvN world and the only thing that would be remerged because of fortran is gcc. So I'm going to put -fortran into make.conf and see what breaks. It will break several things. This is what I just went through. It appears that if you emerge kde-meta, you have to have a fortran type compiler. So, you may as well keep what you got if it is working. When I started going down this road, I thought I could just disable fortran and have less packages installed. That is not the case. I removed fortran then had to replace that with even more packages than I had to begin with. If it works with fortran turned on, I'd leave it alone. With hindsight, I should have left well enough alone anyway. It wasn't hurting a thing. Watch the elog messages. It will tell you at some point to either enable fortran or emerge some other package that I forget the name of. That one package pulled several dependencies on my rig. YMMV. Well, as I said in another post, I do have -fortan in my make.conf and there are no problems. I do not have programs installed that need a fortran compiler. And I do not have kde-meta installed; that's a waste of resources. I only install what I actually need.
