Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Re: OT: Mapping random numbers (PRNG)

[Matti Nykyri]

On Jun 29, 2014, at 0:28, Kai Krakow hurikha...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 Matti Nykyri matti.nyk...@iki.fi schrieb:
 
 On Jun 27, 2014, at 0:00, Kai Krakow hurikha...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 Matti Nykyri matti.nyk...@iki.fi schrieb:
 
 If you are looking a mathematically perfect solution there is a simple
 one even if your list is not in the power of 2! Take 6 bits at a time of
 the random data. If the result is 62 or 63 you will discard the data and
 get the next 6 bits. This selectively modifies the random data but keeps
 the probabilities in correct balance. Now the probability for index of
 0-61 is 1/62 because the probability to get 62-63 out of 64 if 0.
 
 Why not do just something like this?
 
 index = 0;
 while (true) {
 index = (index + get_6bit_random()) % 62;
 output  char_array[index];
 }
 
 Done, no bits wasted. Should have perfect distribution also. We also
 don't have to throw away random data just to stay within unaligned
 boundaries. The unalignment is being taken over into the next loop so the
 error corrects itself over time (it becomes distributed over the whole
 set).
 
 Distribution will not be perfect. The same original problem persists.
 Probability for index 0 to 1 will be 2/64 and for 2 to 61 it will be 1/64.
 Now the addition changes this so that index 0 to 1 reflects to previous
 character and not the original index.
 
 The distribution of like 10GB of data should be quite even but not on a
 small scale. The next char will depend on previous char. It is 100% more
 likely that the next char is the same or one index above the previous char
 then any of the other ones in the series. So it is likely that you will
 have long sets of same character.
 
 I cannot follow your reasoning here - but I'd like to learn. Actually, I ran 
 this multiple times and never saw long sets of the same character, even no 
 short sets of the same character. The 0 or 1 is always rolled over into the 
 next random addition. I would only get sets of the same character if rand() 
 returned zero multiple times after each other - which wouldn't be really 
 random. ;-)

In your example that isn't true. You will get the same character if 6bit random 
number is 0 or if it is 62! This is what makes the flaw!

You will also get the next character if random number is 1 or 63.

That is why the possibility for 0 and 1 (after modulo 62) is twice as large 
compared to all other values (2-61).

By definition random means that the probability for every value should be the 
same. So if you have 62 options and even distribution of probability the 
probability for each of them is 1/62. 

 Keep in mind: The last index will be reused whenever you'd enter the 
 function - it won't reset to zero. But still that primitive implementation 
 had a flaw: It will tend to select characters beyond the current offset, if 
 it is = 1/2 into the complete set, otherwise it will prefer selecting 
 characters before the offset.

If you modify the sequence so that if looks random it is pseudo random. 

 In my tests I counted how ofter new_index  index and new_index  index, and 
 it had a clear bias for the first. So I added swapping of the selected index 
 with offset=0 in the set. Now the characters will be swapped and start to 
 distribute that flaw. The distribution, however, didn't change.

Try counting how of often new_index = index and new_index = (index + 1) % 62 
and new_index = (index + 2) % 62. With your algorithm the last one should be 
significantly less then the first two in large sample.

 Of course I'm no mathematician, I don't know how I'd calculate the 
 probabilities for my implementation because it is sort of a recursive 
 function (for get_rand()) when looking at it over time:
 
 int get_rand() {
  static int index = 0;
  return (index = (index + get_6bit_rand()) % 62);
 }
 
 char get_char() {
  int index = get_rand();
  char tmp = chars[index];
  chars[index] = chars[0];
  return (chars[0] = tmp);
 }
 
 However, get_char() should return evenly distributes results.
 
 What this shows, is, that while distribution is even among the result set, 
 the implementation may still be flawed because results could be predictable 
 for a subset of results. Or in other words: Simply looking at the 
 distribution of results is not an indicator for randomness. I could change 
 get_rand() in the following way:
 
 int get_rand() {
  static int index = 0;
  return (index = (index + 1) % 62);
 }
 
 Results would be distributed even, but clearly it is not random.
 
 -- 
 Replies to list only preferred.
 
 

Re: [gentoo-user] Cross system dependencies

[J. Roeleveld]

On Saturday, June 28, 2014 09:23:17 PM thegeezer wrote:
 On 06/28/2014 07:06 PM, J. Roeleveld wrote:
  On Saturday, June 28, 2014 01:39:41 PM Neil Bothwick wrote:
  On Sat, 28 Jun 2014 11:36:11 +0200, J. Roeleveld wrote:
  I need a way to add dependencies to services which are provided by
  different servers. For instance, my mail server uses DNS to locate my
  LDAP server which contains the mail aliases. All these are running on
  different machines. Currently, I manually ensure these are all started
  in the correct sequence, I would like to automate this to the point
  where I can start all 3 servers at the same time and have the different
  services wait for the dependency services to be available even though
  they are on different systems.
  
  All the dependency systems in the init-systems I could find are all
  based on dependencies on the same server. Does anyone know of something
  that can already provide this type of dependencies? Or do I need to
  write something myself?
  
  With systemd you can add ExecStartPre=/some/script to the service's unit
  file where /some/script waits for the remote services to become
  available,
  and possibly return an error if the service does not become available
  within a set time.
  
  That method works for any init-system and writing a script to check and if
  necessary fail is my temporary fall-back plan. I was actually hoping for a
  method that can be used to monitor availability and, if necessary, stop
  services when the dependencies disappear.
  
  --
  Joost
 
 the difficulty is in identifying failed services.
 local network issue / load issue could mean your services start bouncing.
 the best way is to have redundancy so it doesn't matter as much

I know that. A proper system for this would have a configurable amount of 
retries with a wait-time in between.

 having said all of that::
 
 systemd will start servers and buffer network activity - how this works
 for non local services would be interesting to see.

It would, but I am not going to migrate my servers to something like systemd 
without a clear and proven advantage. For me, that currently does not exist.
It also would not work as not all the software I run will happily wait while 
the rest of the stack starts.
I would end up in a bigger mess thanks to timeout issues during startup.

 with openrc :
 you could on the DNS server have a service which is just a batch script
 that uses watches for pid / program path in ps which outputs ACK or
 NAK to a file in an NFS share  say /nfs/monitoring/dns

Yes, but in order to access the NFS share, I need DNS to be running. Chicken-
egg problem.

 then on the mail server you could have a service that polls
 /nfs/monitoring/dns for NAK or ACK
 you can then choose to have this service directly start your dependent
 services, or if you adjust /etc/init.d/postfix to have depends =
 mymonitorDNS which is an empty shell of a service. your watchdog
 service could stop / start the empty shell of a script mymonitorDNS, and
 then postfix depends on mymonitorDNS
 this would save you from i've just stopped the mail server for
 maintenance and my watchdogservice has just restarted it due to a
 NAKACK event

That is the problem I have with these watchdog services. During boot, I want 
it to wait. But it needs to understand not to start a service when I stopped 
it during runtime.
Otherwise it could prevent a clean shutdown as well...

 or...
 you could have a central master machine which has it's own services,
 watchdog and monitor... i.e. /etc/init.d/thepostfixserver start  /
 depends on thednsserver which just runs
 # ssh postfixserver '/etc/init.d/postfix start'
 
 or...
 puppet and it's kin

Last time I looked at puppet, it seemed too complex for what I need.
I will recheck it again.

Thanks,

Joost

Re: [gentoo-user] smartctrl drive error @60%

[Mick]

On Sunday 29 Jun 2014 05:44:38 Dale wrote:
 Rich Freeman wrote:
  On Sat, Jun 28, 2014 at 11:27 PM, Dale rdalek1...@gmail.com wrote:
  So, thoughts?  Did it mark that part as bad and all is well or is this
  going to be trouble down the line?  Should I just fill the thing up with
  data and test the stuffin out of it to make sure?
  
  That is pretty typical.  You wrote to every sector on the drive.  You
  don't need to be able to read a sector to overwrite it, so doing this
  cleared out the drive's list of offline uncorrectable sectors.  If
  you're fortunate it relocated those sectors in which case the drive is
  only using good sectors now.  It can't relocate a sector unless it
  either gets a successful read, or it is overwritten, and you overwrote
  them.
  
  Either way the extended offline test passing isn't unusual.  Either it
  relocated the sectors in which case the drive is completely good or
  the data written to the bad sectors was readable when the test was
  run, which doesn't guarantee that it will still be readable a
  day/week/month/year from now.
  
  Unfortunately I don't think there is any way to find out what the
  firmware is doing, or to predict the likelihood of another failure.
  The only thing we can say for sure that like all hard drives, it WILL
  fail sometime.
  
  Rich
 
 What if I copied data to the drive until it was just about full.  I'm
 thinking like maybe 90 or 95% or so.  If I do that and run the test
 every few days, would it then catch a error after a few weeks or so of
 testing?  I realize no one knows with 100% certainty but I would like to
 backup my data say every couple weeks just in case.  If the drive works,
 fine.  If it fails, well, it wouldn't be the first time and it won't be
 a primary drive so no big loss.
 
 I got to find me a good drive for backups tho.  I'm waiting on a good
 sale of a brand other than Seagate tho.  That should help keep two
 drives from failing at the same time.  Well, a little anyway.  I think
 it is called Dale's Law now.  ;-)

I'm not sure what it is called, but it seems infectious!  I have a drive (in a 
laptop) which I recently zeroed out with dd and fsck -c for good measure, 
before I installed gentoo on it.  Yesterday, I tried a long test, but it won't 
complete.  It reached 10% remaining and it stayed there for a few hours.  I 
will repeat the test to see if it gets through this time, but I am worried 
that it's on its way out.

Oh well, I may install an SSD if it fails.

-- 
Regards,
Mick


signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part.

Re: [gentoo-user] how to wake up gdm

[Tom Wijsman]

On Tue, 24 Jun 2014 22:36:14 +0300
Gevisz gev...@gmail.com wrote:

 Are you sure that you need gdm at all?

Yes, `startx` doesn't work well in GNOME 3 for a lot of people; so,
unless one attempts to cover what the login manager sets up, I don't
think that a plain call with a plain `exec gnome-session` will work.

It for example needs the *-launch things between exec and gnome-session.

-- 
With kind regards,

Tom Wijsman (TomWij)
Gentoo Developer

E-mail address  : tom...@gentoo.org
GPG Public Key  : 6D34E57D
GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2  ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Re: [gentoo-user] Cross system dependencies

[Neil Bothwick]

On Sun, 29 Jun 2014 08:55:41 +0200, J. Roeleveld wrote:

  or...
  puppet and it's kin  
 
 Last time I looked at puppet, it seemed too complex for what I need.
 I will recheck it again.

What about something like monit?


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Bug: (n.) any program feature not yet described to the marketing
department.


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Re: [gentoo-user] smartctrl drive error @60%

[Dale]

Mick wrote:
 On Sunday 29 Jun 2014 05:44:38 Dale wrote:


 What if I copied data to the drive until it was just about full.  I'm
 thinking like maybe 90 or 95% or so.  If I do that and run the test
 every few days, would it then catch a error after a few weeks or so of
 testing?  I realize no one knows with 100% certainty but I would like to
 backup my data say every couple weeks just in case.  If the drive works,
 fine.  If it fails, well, it wouldn't be the first time and it won't be
 a primary drive so no big loss.

 I got to find me a good drive for backups tho.  I'm waiting on a good
 sale of a brand other than Seagate tho.  That should help keep two
 drives from failing at the same time.  Well, a little anyway.  I think
 it is called Dale's Law now.  ;-)

 I'm not sure what it is called, but it seems infectious!  I have a
drive (in a
 laptop) which I recently zeroed out with dd and fsck -c for good measure,
 before I installed gentoo on it.  Yesterday, I tried a long test, but
it won't
 complete.  It reached 10% remaining and it stayed there for a few
hours.  I
 will repeat the test to see if it gets through this time, but I am
worried
 that it's on its way out.

 Oh well, I may install an SSD if it fails.


That's seems to be normal at least for me.  Mine has certain percentages
that it just seems to sit at for a good while.  It eventually passes the
test tho.  Just leave it overnight and check it the next morning or
something.  I know laptops are different but got to do what you got to
do.  Maybe pluging it into a desktop or something would help.

Dale

:-)  :-)

Re: [gentoo-user] [Way OT] Tally ho!

[Peter Humphrey]

On Saturday 28 June 2014 11:25:10 Dale wrote:
 J. Roeleveld wrote:
  On 28 June 2014 16:54:52 CEST, Peter Humphrey pe...@prh.myzen.co.uk 
wrote:
  It's Wakes Week here and we've just had a triple fly-by by a Hurricane
  
  from
  
  the Battle of Britain Commemorative Flight. Last Saturday it was a
  Spitfire.
  
  Yoo-hoo!
  
  I think I can just about remember the sound of those magnificent beasts
  
  from
  
  the 40s
  
  Apologies to those of a more serious disposition.
  
  Pictures or it didn't happen :)
  
  Seriously. If you do happen to be able to take pictures and/or videos. I
  would love a copy.
  
  --
  Joost
 
 +1

Here's the Spitfire run. Hurricane to follow.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHuVn7R4AcY

-- 
Regards
Peter

Re: [gentoo-user] [Way OT] Tally ho!

[Peter Humphrey]

On Sunday 29 June 2014 00:18:06 Alan McKinnon wrote:

 I suppose that's what happens when you don't fact-check. That'll teach
 me :-)

You reckon?  :-)

-- 
Regards
Peter

Re: [gentoo-user] Cross system dependencies

[J. Roeleveld]

On Sunday, June 29, 2014 09:35:33 AM Neil Bothwick wrote:
 On Sun, 29 Jun 2014 08:55:41 +0200, J. Roeleveld wrote:
   or...
   puppet and it's kin
  
  Last time I looked at puppet, it seemed too complex for what I need.
  I will recheck it again.
 
 What about something like monit?

Hmm... I looked into that before, don't recall why I didn't look into it 
properly before.

Just had a look on the website, it looks usable, will need to check this.
Will also replace nagios at the same time, which I find ok, but don't really 
like it.

I might open a new thread at a later stage when I get round to trying it.

Thanks,

Joost

Re: [gentoo-user] [Way OT] Tally ho!

[J. Roeleveld]

On Sunday, June 29, 2014 09:46:12 AM Peter Humphrey wrote:
 On Saturday 28 June 2014 11:25:10 Dale wrote:
  J. Roeleveld wrote:
   On 28 June 2014 16:54:52 CEST, Peter Humphrey pe...@prh.myzen.co.uk
 
 wrote:
   It's Wakes Week here and we've just had a triple fly-by by a Hurricane
   
   from
   
   the Battle of Britain Commemorative Flight. Last Saturday it was a
   Spitfire.
   
   Yoo-hoo!
   
   I think I can just about remember the sound of those magnificent beasts
   
   from
   
   the 40s
   
   Apologies to those of a more serious disposition.
   
   Pictures or it didn't happen :)
   
   Seriously. If you do happen to be able to take pictures and/or videos. I
   would love a copy.
   
   --
   Joost
  
  +1
 
 Here's the Spitfire run. Hurricane to follow.
 
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHuVn7R4AcY

Thank you! :)

[gentoo-user] Mosuewheel goes crazy...

[meino . cramer]

Hi,

normally the mouse wheel is used for action like scrolling and
zooming...

From time to time it happens that -- right after using firefox --
this assignment does not work anymore and using wheel moves the
application, which currently has the focus, is moved from desktop 
to desktop or moves the focus itsself from desktop to desktop.

I restarted openbox in such cases, which does not help.
I restarted devilspie2 in such cases, which also does not help.

The only thing which currently helps: Rebooting.
This is not adaquate for UNIX OSses... ;)

What can be done instead? What is the reason for this problem?

Best regards,
mcc

Re: [gentoo-user] [Way OT] Tally ho!

[Dale]

Peter Humphrey wrote:

 Here's the Spitfire run. Hurricane to follow.

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHuVn7R4AcY


Wow.  Video is good but I bet being there is much better.  I live about
4 or 5 miles from a air force base here.  We have mostly training type
planes that fly over us but on occasion, we have something really big
here.  We have even had the space shuttle land there a few times.  The
B2 bombers have been there as well. 

I have heard some of the large planes when they start their engines and
like I said, I'm several miles away and it is loud.  Video just can't
give you that even with a good sub-woofer. 

Thanks for the link. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] Mosuewheel goes crazy...

[meino . cramer]

meino.cra...@gmx.de meino.cra...@gmx.de [14-06-29 11:20]:
 Hi,
 
 normally the mouse wheel is used for action like scrolling and
 zooming...
 
 From time to time it happens that -- right after using firefox --
 this assignment does not work anymore and using wheel moves the
 application, which currently has the focus, is moved from desktop 
 to desktop or moves the focus itsself from desktop to desktop.
 
 I restarted openbox in such cases, which does not help.
 I restarted devilspie2 in such cases, which also does not help.
 
 The only thing which currently helps: Rebooting.
 This is not adaquate for UNIX OSses... ;)
 
 What can be done instead? What is the reason for this problem?
 
 Best regards,
 mcc
 
 
 

ok...fixedimwheel was running and restarting it helps...

Best regards,
mcc

Re: [gentoo-user] smartctrl drive error @60%

[Mick]

On Sunday 29 Jun 2014 09:42:39 Dale wrote:
 Mick wrote:
  On Sunday 29 Jun 2014 05:44:38 Dale wrote:
  What if I copied data to the drive until it was just about full.  I'm
  thinking like maybe 90 or 95% or so.  If I do that and run the test
  every few days, would it then catch a error after a few weeks or so of
  testing?  I realize no one knows with 100% certainty but I would like to
  backup my data say every couple weeks just in case.  If the drive works,
  fine.  If it fails, well, it wouldn't be the first time and it won't be
  a primary drive so no big loss.
  
  I got to find me a good drive for backups tho.  I'm waiting on a good
  sale of a brand other than Seagate tho.  That should help keep two
  drives from failing at the same time.  Well, a little anyway.  I think
  it is called Dale's Law now.  ;-)
  
  I'm not sure what it is called, but it seems infectious!  I have a
 
 drive (in a
 
  laptop) which I recently zeroed out with dd and fsck -c for good measure,
  before I installed gentoo on it.  Yesterday, I tried a long test, but
 
 it won't
 
  complete.  It reached 10% remaining and it stayed there for a few
 
 hours.  I
 
  will repeat the test to see if it gets through this time, but I am
 
 worried
 
  that it's on its way out.
  
  Oh well, I may install an SSD if it fails.
 
 That's seems to be normal at least for me.  Mine has certain percentages
 that it just seems to sit at for a good while.  It eventually passes the
 test tho.  Just leave it overnight and check it the next morning or
 something.  I know laptops are different but got to do what you got to
 do.  Maybe pluging it into a desktop or something would help.

I've restarted it and will leave it all day today to see what gives.

-- 
Regards,
Mick


signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part.

Re: [gentoo-user] how to wake up gdm

[Gevisz]

On Sun, 29 Jun 2014 10:05:58 +0200
Tom Wijsman tom...@gentoo.org wrote:

 On Tue, 24 Jun 2014 22:36:14 +0300
 Gevisz gev...@gmail.com wrote:startxfce4
 
  Are you sure that you need gdm at all?
 
 Yes, `startx` doesn't work well in GNOME 3 for a lot of people; so,
 unless one attempts to cover what the login manager sets up, I don't
 think that a plain call with a plain `exec gnome-session` will work.
 
 It for example needs the *-launch things between exec and
 gnome-session.

Then, it is high time to switch for xfce4.

First of all, the version number is bigger. :)

And, the second of all :), in case of xfce4
I need only one following line in ./xinitrc

startxfce4

One even can do without ./xinitrc al all
if he do not mind instead of the startx
command type startxfce4.

P.S. I have switched to xfce4 from gnome2
and nobody can find any difference.

Only I know that the image of sun in gnome2
weather applet was nicer. :) 
   

Re: [gentoo-user] gnome-keyring-daemon processes running as root

[Francesco Turco]

On Sun, Jun 15, 2014, at 11:08, Francesco Turco wrote:
 As you can see I have many gnome-keyring-daemon processes running as
 root. I also noted that on my system /usr/bin/gnome-keyring-daemon has
 the setuid bit set:
 
 $ ls -l /usr/bin/gnome-keyring-daemon 
 -rws--x--x 1 root root 940184 Jun  8 16:18 /usr/bin/gnome-keyring-daemon

My problem is fixed now. It was indeed due to the setuid bit. See Gentoo
bug 513870 (https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=513870) for more
details.

Re: [gentoo-user] smartctrl drive error @60%

[Rich Freeman]

On Sun, Jun 29, 2014 at 12:44 AM, Dale rdalek1...@gmail.com wrote:

 What if I copied data to the drive until it was just about full.  I'm
 thinking like maybe 90 or 95% or so.  If I do that and run the test
 every few days, would it then catch a error after a few weeks or so of
 testing?  I realize no one knows with 100% certainty...

As you already said, nobody knows with 100% certainty.

In the failures I've experienced I'd expect it to start catching
errors within a few days.  However, on those drives the relocated
sector count never increases, which suggests that the firmware never
relocated those sectors when overwritten, which seems brain-dead to
me.

If the drive relocates the sectors, then conceivably it could go quite
a long time until having errors, probably in an entirely different set
of sectors.

Even if it doesn't relocate, the reliability of the bad sectors could
be high or low.

Rich

[gentoo-user] GRUB isn't working on SSD

[João Matos]

Dear list,

After finishing the configuration, my gentoo was working very well. So, the
last step was to create a stage4, and replace my old hd.

I did it, installed grub lecacy in chroot. No error reported during the
installation. My /boot isn't a separated partition, and my root fs is ext4,
just like before. Everything is the same but the ssd.

I tried the grub2, but I had the same result. I don't think grub is the
problem, and I don't see need to change it, since I have just gentoo on my
machine.

what do you say?

-- 
João Neto
Linux User #461527
http://br.linkedin.com/pub/jo%C3%A3o-de-matos/7/316/552

Re: [gentoo-user] smartctrl drive error @60%

[Dale]

Rich Freeman wrote:
 On Sun, Jun 29, 2014 at 12:44 AM, Dale rdalek1...@gmail.com wrote:
 What if I copied data to the drive until it was just about full.  I'm
 thinking like maybe 90 or 95% or so.  If I do that and run the test
 every few days, would it then catch a error after a few weeks or so of
 testing?  I realize no one knows with 100% certainty...
 As you already said, nobody knows with 100% certainty.

 In the failures I've experienced I'd expect it to start catching
 errors within a few days.  However, on those drives the relocated
 sector count never increases, which suggests that the firmware never
 relocated those sectors when overwritten, which seems brain-dead to
 me.

 If the drive relocates the sectors, then conceivably it could go quite
 a long time until having errors, probably in an entirely different set
 of sectors.

 Even if it doesn't relocate, the reliability of the bad sectors could
 be high or low.

 Rich



Yep.  I guess the best thing to do is test the stuffin out of it and
hope the tests don't wear it out.  lol 

As I told my ex more than once, time tells. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

[gentoo-user] Re: Re: Re: OT: Mapping random numbers (PRNG)

[Kai Krakow]

Matti Nykyri matti.nyk...@iki.fi schrieb:

 On Jun 29, 2014, at 0:28, Kai Krakow hurikha...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 Matti Nykyri matti.nyk...@iki.fi schrieb:
 
 On Jun 27, 2014, at 0:00, Kai Krakow hurikha...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 Matti Nykyri matti.nyk...@iki.fi schrieb:
 
 If you are looking a mathematically perfect solution there is a simple
 one even if your list is not in the power of 2! Take 6 bits at a time
 of the random data. If the result is 62 or 63 you will discard the
 data and get the next 6 bits. This selectively modifies the random
 data but keeps the probabilities in correct balance. Now the
 probability for index of 0-61 is 1/62 because the probability to get
 62-63 out of 64 if 0.
 
 Why not do just something like this?
 
 index = 0;
 while (true) {
 index = (index + get_6bit_random()) % 62;
 output  char_array[index];
 }
 
 Done, no bits wasted. Should have perfect distribution also. We also
 don't have to throw away random data just to stay within unaligned
 boundaries. The unalignment is being taken over into the next loop so
 the error corrects itself over time (it becomes distributed over the
 whole set).
 
 Distribution will not be perfect. The same original problem persists.
 Probability for index 0 to 1 will be 2/64 and for 2 to 61 it will be
 1/64. Now the addition changes this so that index 0 to 1 reflects to
 previous character and not the original index.
 
 The distribution of like 10GB of data should be quite even but not on a
 small scale. The next char will depend on previous char. It is 100% more
 likely that the next char is the same or one index above the previous
 char then any of the other ones in the series. So it is likely that you
 will have long sets of same character.
 
 I cannot follow your reasoning here - but I'd like to learn. Actually, I
 ran this multiple times and never saw long sets of the same character,
 even no short sets of the same character. The 0 or 1 is always rolled
 over into the next random addition. I would only get sets of the same
 character if rand() returned zero multiple times after each other - which
 wouldn't be really random. ;-)
 
 In your example that isn't true. You will get the same character if 6bit
 random number is 0 or if it is 62! This is what makes the flaw!
 
 You will also get the next character if random number is 1 or 63.
 
 That is why the possibility for 0 and 1 (after modulo 62) is twice as
 large compared to all other values (2-61).

Ah, now I get it.

 By definition random means that the probability for every value should be
 the same. So if you have 62 options and even distribution of probability
 the probability for each of them is 1/62.

Still, the increased probability for single elements should hit different 
elements each time. So for large sets it will distribute - however, I now 
get why it's not completely random by definition.

 In my tests I counted how ofter new_index  index and new_index  index,
 and it had a clear bias for the first. So I added swapping of the
 selected index with offset=0 in the set. Now the characters will be
 swapped and start to distribute that flaw. The distribution, however,
 didn't change.
 
 Try counting how of often new_index = index and new_index = (index + 1) %
 62 and new_index = (index + 2) % 62. With your algorithm the last one
 should be significantly less then the first two in large sample.

I will try that. It looks like a good approach.

-- 
Replies to list only preferred.

Re: [gentoo-user] GRUB isn't working on SSD

[Bill Kenworthy]

On 29/06/14 20:17, João Matos wrote:
 
 Dear list,
 
 After finishing the configuration, my gentoo was working very well. So,
 the last step was to create a stage4, and replace my old hd.
 
 I did it, installed grub lecacy in chroot. No error reported during the
 installation. My /boot isn't a separated partition, and my root fs is
 ext4, just like before. Everything is the same but the ssd.
 
 I tried the grub2, but I had the same result. I don't think grub is the
 problem, and I don't see need to change it, since I have just gentoo on
 my machine.
 
 what do you say?
 
 -- 
 João Neto
 Linux User #461527
 http://br.linkedin.com/pub/jo%C3%A3o-de-matos/7/316/552

olympus build # cat /boot/grub/device.map
(hd0)   /dev/sda
(hd1)   /dev/sdb
(hd2)   /dev/hdc
(hd3)   /dev/sdd
olympus build #

sdd is the boot ssd (mbr) - grub would not recognise it until this was set.

BillK

Re: [gentoo-user] GRUB isn't working on SSD

[Alan McKinnon]

On 29/06/2014 14:17, João Matos wrote:
 
 Dear list,
 
 After finishing the configuration, my gentoo was working very well. So,
 the last step was to create a stage4, and replace my old hd.
 
 I did it, installed grub lecacy in chroot. No error reported during the
 installation. My /boot isn't a separated partition, and my root fs is
 ext4, just like before. Everything is the same but the ssd.
 
 I tried the grub2, but I had the same result. I don't think grub is the
 problem, and I don't see need to change it, since I have just gentoo on
 my machine.
 
 what do you say?


does grub find your ssd device at all?

You can find it in the grub shell using tab completion, it is
(hdsomething)

If you have the old and new drives now installed, grub's idea of device
numbers may have changed


-- 
Alan McKinnon
alan.mckin...@gmail.com

Re: [gentoo-user] [Way OT] Tally ho!

[Peter Humphrey]

On Sunday 29 June 2014 04:22:16 Dale wrote:
 Peter Humphrey wrote:
  Here's the Spitfire run. Hurricane to follow.
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHuVn7R4AcY
 
 Wow.  Video is good but I bet being there is much better.

Of course! I missed the Spitfire, so I don't know how high it flew, but the 
Hurricane sound from no more than a couple of hundred feet or so was among the 
two or three most impressive of my life. Both planes have V12 Rolls-Royce 
Merlin engines (I think). As each cylinder fired, the sound pressure went up 
extremely fast at the start of the exhaust beat, suggesting huge exhaust 
valves, and the deep-throated roar was ... just ... beyond description.

The only engine to come close was an extraordinary 1/3 scale model of a nine-
cylinder radial aero-engine I saw years ago at a national model engineering 
exhibition. The crankshaft was anchored to the frame, and the entire engine 
and prop rotated around it. That's what you call air-cooling! Absolutely 
fantastic when he fired it up once an hour or so!

 I live about 4 or 5 miles from a air force base here.  We have mostly
 training type planes that fly over us but on occasion, we have something
 really big here.  We have even had the space shuttle land there a few times. 
 The B2 bombers have been there as well.

Sounds like a good place to live! That's not Edwards, is it? I drove up to the 
gates once to see what they'd say. They were actually quite polite.

 I have heard some of the large planes when they start their engines and
 like I said, I'm several miles away and it is loud.  Video just can't
 give you that even with a good sub-woofer.

Even that wouldn't help much, I think. You'd need something that can handle an 
extremely rapid wave-front and high volumes. As you said - you had to be 
there.

 Thanks for the link.

My pleasure. I don't know when we'll get the Hurricane one - the man with the 
camera just put a two-word entry on Twitter this morning: Hashtag HEADACHE

-- 
Regards
Peter

Re: [gentoo-user] smartctrl drive error @60%

[Frank Steinmetzger]

On Wed, Jun 25, 2014 at 11:57:55PM -0500, Dale wrote:

 I'm just going to try and buy another 3TB drive as soon as I can.  I may
 even make it into a removable thingy.  Then I can make backups and just
 put it in a outbuilding.  By the way, my outbuilding is pretty far from

For such use, I am planning to get an external SATA dock, rather than use
a “removable thingy”. You pop in the naked drive and stow that away after
you’re done. This has multiple advantages. For one, you can read SMART data
from the external drives, provided you use a SATA connection. Cou can’t do
that over USB. So if your board has an eSATA connector, get an external dock
such as http://www.sharkoon.com/?q=en/node/1277.
If it doesn’t, you can get an internal one for a 5¼″ slot in the front of
your case, like http://www.sharkoon.com/?q=en/node/1281 for one 3.5″ HDD, or
http://www.sharkoon.com/?q=en/content/sata-qp-intern-multi for both big and
small HDDs (plus some USB3 connectors, if your case doesn’t have them but
your board provides a header).

Those docks are only slightly more expensive than an external case, but you
can use them for all your drives, not just a single one, and you have no
hassle with countless external power supplies (“which one did go into which
case?”).

PS: I’m not saying you should get a Sharkoon, after all I haven’t bought it
yet myself. But their site shows nicely what’s available and gives me ideas.
--
Gruß | Greetings | Qapla’
Please do not share anything from, with or about me on any social network.

Please don’t befuddle me with facts, my mind is set.


signature.asc
Description: Digital signature

Re: [gentoo-user] GRUB isn't working on SSD

[João Matos]

2014-06-29 10:48 GMT-03:00 Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com:

 On 29/06/2014 14:17, João Matos wrote:
 
  Dear list,
 
  After finishing the configuration, my gentoo was working very well. So,
  the last step was to create a stage4, and replace my old hd.
 
  I did it, installed grub lecacy in chroot. No error reported during the
  installation. My /boot isn't a separated partition, and my root fs is
  ext4, just like before. Everything is the same but the ssd.
 
  I tried the grub2, but I had the same result. I don't think grub is the
  problem, and I don't see need to change it, since I have just gentoo on
  my machine.
 
  what do you say?


 does grub find your ssd device at all?

 yes. In fact the grub is working pretty well. But nothing is showed. Just
black screen. but my system is booting, even I cant see the menu.


 You can find it in the grub shell using tab completion, it is
 (hdsomething)

 If you have the old and new drives now installed, grub's idea of device
 numbers may have changed


 --
 Alan McKinnon
 alan.mckin...@gmail.com





-- 
João Neto
Linux User #461527
http://br.linkedin.com/pub/jo%C3%A3o-de-matos/7/316/552

Re: [gentoo-user] [Way OT] Tally ho!

[Dale]

Peter Humphrey wrote:
 Of course! I missed the Spitfire, so I don't know how high it flew, but the 
 Hurricane sound from no more than a couple of hundred feet or so was among 
 the 
 two or three most impressive of my life. Both planes have V12 Rolls-Royce 
 Merlin engines (I think). As each cylinder fired, the sound pressure went up 
 extremely fast at the start of the exhaust beat, suggesting huge exhaust 
 valves, and the deep-throated roar was ... just ... beyond description.

 The only engine to come close was an extraordinary 1/3 scale model of a nine-
 cylinder radial aero-engine I saw years ago at a national model engineering 
 exhibition. The crankshaft was anchored to the frame, and the entire engine 
 and prop rotated around it. That's what you call air-cooling! Absolutely 
 fantastic when he fired it up once an hour or so!

Yep.  Some of those prop engines are very powerful, maybe not so
efficient tho.  Anyway, they sure do make some noise even if the engine
is small.  I don't think they have mufflers or if they do, it isn't much
of one.  I also think they burn methanol or something too.  I'm not sure
and it may even vary from one engine to another.  I don't think they
burn plain old gas like cars. 


 I live about 4 or 5 miles from a air force base here.  We have mostly
 training type planes that fly over us but on occasion, we have something
 really big here.  We have even had the space shuttle land there a few times. 
 The B2 bombers have been there as well.
 Sounds like a good place to live! That's not Edwards, is it? I drove up to 
 the 
 gates once to see what they'd say. They were actually quite polite.

I'm close to Columbus Air Force base in Mississippi.  It has a huge
runway.  It is one reason the space shuttle lands here.  It takes a long
runway to land and take off when carrying that thing.  I say space
shuttle, it's mounted on the back of a 747 I think.  What's more neat
tho is the big bombers.  My Dad several decades ago was doing a contract
job at the base.  For some reason they had the really big bombers out
there with armed military guards everywhere.   They wouldn't let anyone
even near those things. He could see them real good tho.  He said it
looked like death, just plain death.  Later on my Dad found out it was
loaded up with bombs that they were moving somewhere else.   Death was
more accurate than he thought. 



 I have heard some of the large planes when they start their engines and
 like I said, I'm several miles away and it is loud.  Video just can't
 give you that even with a good sub-woofer.
 Even that wouldn't help much, I think. You'd need something that can handle 
 an 
 extremely rapid wave-front and high volumes. As you said - you had to be 
 there.

Yep, speakers can only do so much. 



 Thanks for the link.
 My pleasure. I don't know when we'll get the Hurricane one - the man with the 
 camera just put a two-word entry on Twitter this morning: Hashtag HEADACHE



Oooops. 

Dale

:-)  :-)

Re: [gentoo-user] [Way OT] Tally ho!

[wabenbau]

Am Sonntag, 29.06.2014 um 11:38
schrieb Dale rdalek1...@gmail.com:

 Peter Humphrey wrote:
  Of course! I missed the Spitfire, so I don't know how high it flew,
  but the Hurricane sound from no more than a couple of hundred feet
[...]

Please folks, stop that crap. It has nothing to do with gentoo or
computers at all. If you wanna discuss the delightfulness of war
machines then please to this at another place and not on this list.

Re: [gentoo-user] [Way OT] Tally ho!

[J. Roeleveld]

On 29 June 2014 18:38:11 CEST, Dale rdalek1...@gmail.com wrote:
Peter Humphrey wrote:
 Of course! I missed the Spitfire, so I don't know how high it flew,
but the 
 Hurricane sound from no more than a couple of hundred feet or so was
among the 
 two or three most impressive of my life. Both planes have V12
Rolls-Royce 
 Merlin engines (I think). As each cylinder fired, the sound pressure
went up 
 extremely fast at the start of the exhaust beat, suggesting huge
exhaust 
 valves, and the deep-throated roar was ... just ... beyond
description.

 The only engine to come close was an extraordinary 1/3 scale model of
a nine-
 cylinder radial aero-engine I saw years ago at a national model
engineering 
 exhibition. The crankshaft was anchored to the frame, and the entire
engine 
 and prop rotated around it. That's what you call air-cooling!
Absolutely 
 fantastic when he fired it up once an hour or so!

Yep.  Some of those prop engines are very powerful, maybe not so
efficient tho.  Anyway, they sure do make some noise even if the engine
is small.  I don't think they have mufflers or if they do, it isn't
much
of one.  I also think they burn methanol or something too.  I'm not
sure
and it may even vary from one engine to another.  I don't think they
burn plain old gas like cars. 

If you are talking about model engines. The bigger ones run normal petrol, just 
like cars, lawn mowers, chain saws,.

 I live about 4 or 5 miles from a air force base here.  We have
mostly
 training type planes that fly over us but on occasion, we have
something
 really big here.  We have even had the space shuttle land there a
few times. 
 The B2 bombers have been there as well.
 Sounds like a good place to live! That's not Edwards, is it? I drove
up to the 
 gates once to see what they'd say. They were actually quite polite.

I'm close to Columbus Air Force base in Mississippi.  It has a huge
runway.  It is one reason the space shuttle lands here.  It takes a
long
runway to land and take off when carrying that thing.  I say space
shuttle, it's mounted on the back of a 747 I think.  What's more neat
tho is the big bombers.  My Dad several decades ago was doing a
contract
job at the base.  For some reason they had the really big bombers out
there with armed military guards everywhere.   They wouldn't let anyone
even near those things. He could see them real good tho.  He said it
looked like death, just plain death.  Later on my Dad found out it was
loaded up with bombs that they were moving somewhere else.   Death was
more accurate than he thought. 



 I have heard some of the large planes when they start their engines
and
 like I said, I'm several miles away and it is loud.  Video just
can't
 give you that even with a good sub-woofer.
 Even that wouldn't help much, I think. You'd need something that can
handle an 
 extremely rapid wave-front and high volumes. As you said - you had to
be 
 there.

Yep, speakers can only do so much. 



 Thanks for the link.
 My pleasure. I don't know when we'll get the Hurricane one - the man
with the 
 camera just put a two-word entry on Twitter this morning: Hashtag
HEADACHE



Oooops. 

Dale

:-)  :-)


-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

Re: [gentoo-user] GRUB isn't working on SSD

[Alexander Puchmayr]

On Sonntag, 29. Juni 2014, 13:02:12 João Matos wrote:
 2014-06-29 10:48 GMT-03:00 Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com:
  On 29/06/2014 14:17, João Matos wrote:
   Dear list,
   
   After finishing the configuration, my gentoo was working very well. So,
   the last step was to create a stage4, and replace my old hd.
   
   I did it, installed grub lecacy in chroot. No error reported during the
   installation. My /boot isn't a separated partition, and my root fs is
   ext4, just like before. Everything is the same but the ssd.
   
   I tried the grub2, but I had the same result. I don't think grub is the
   problem, and I don't see need to change it, since I have just gentoo on
   my machine.
   
   what do you say?
  
  does grub find your ssd device at all?
  
  yes. In fact the grub is working pretty well. But nothing is showed. Just
 
 black screen. but my system is booting, even I cant see the menu.
 

Have you tried grub2-mkconfig -o /boot/grub/grub.cfg ?

Alex

Re: [gentoo-user] GRUB isn't working on SSD

[Alan McKinnon]

On 29/06/2014 18:02, João Matos wrote:
 
 
 
 2014-06-29 10:48 GMT-03:00 Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com
 mailto:alan.mckin...@gmail.com:
 
 On 29/06/2014 14:17, João Matos wrote:
 
  Dear list,
 
  After finishing the configuration, my gentoo was working very
 well. So,
  the last step was to create a stage4, and replace my old hd.
 
  I did it, installed grub lecacy in chroot. No error reported
 during the
  installation. My /boot isn't a separated partition, and my root fs is
  ext4, just like before. Everything is the same but the ssd.
 
  I tried the grub2, but I had the same result. I don't think grub
 is the
  problem, and I don't see need to change it, since I have just
 gentoo on
  my machine.
 
  what do you say?
 
 
 does grub find your ssd device at all?
 
 yes. In fact the grub is working pretty well. But nothing is showed.
 Just black screen. but my system is booting, even I cant see the menu.


Ah, you have a screen problem. Shouldn't be too hard to track down as
the only thing grub has available is what the bios provides.

My first step would be to double check your video settings in the bios,
then check if you have configured grub to run quiet.

I know my Ubuntu machines are all blank between post and kernel init
because Ubuntu sets it up that way for the benefit of the millions of
idiots running ubuntu. I can get a grub screen my pressing esc (or maybe
it is enter), this might be your trouble

  
 
 You can find it in the grub shell using tab completion, it is
 (hdsomething)
 
 If you have the old and new drives now installed, grub's idea of device
 numbers may have changed
 
 
 --
 Alan McKinnon
 alan.mckin...@gmail.com mailto:alan.mckin...@gmail.com
 
 
 
 
 
 -- 
 João Neto
 Linux User #461527
 http://br.linkedin.com/pub/jo%C3%A3o-de-matos/7/316/552


-- 
Alan McKinnon
alan.mckin...@gmail.com

Re: [gentoo-user] how to wake up gdm

[covici]

Tom Wijsman tom...@gentoo.org wrote:

 On Tue, 24 Jun 2014 22:36:14 +0300
 Gevisz gev...@gmail.com wrote:
 
  Are you sure that you need gdm at all?
 
 Yes, `startx` doesn't work well in GNOME 3 for a lot of people; so,
 unless one attempts to cover what the login manager sets up, I don't
 think that a plain call with a plain `exec gnome-session` will work.
 
 It for example needs the *-launch things between exec and gnome-session.

So, What can I do aside from restarting gdm after it goes to sleep or
whatever its doing after a few minutes?  Also, I did try startx and I
did get a session and it seems to work, although I have not tested
extensively.


-- 
Your life is like a penny.  You're going to lose it.  The question is:
How do
you spend it?

 John Covici
 cov...@ccs.covici.com

Re: [gentoo-user] how to wake up gdm

[Jc García]

2014-06-29 13:20 GMT-06:00  cov...@ccs.covici.com:
 Tom Wijsman tom...@gentoo.org wrote:

 On Tue, 24 Jun 2014 22:36:14 +0300
 Gevisz gev...@gmail.com wrote:

  Are you sure that you need gdm at all?

 Yes, `startx` doesn't work well in GNOME 3 for a lot of people; so,
 unless one attempts to cover what the login manager sets up, I don't
 think that a plain call with a plain `exec gnome-session` will work.

 It for example needs the *-launch things between exec and gnome-session.


 So, What can I do aside from restarting gdm after it goes to sleep or
 whatever its doing after a few minutes?  Also, I did try startx and I
 did get a session and it seems to work, although I have not tested
 extensively.

Have you tried any other DM? technically gdm, just calls
gnome-session( it does other things, but thats the main goal), so I'd
guess, you could use something like lightdm. altought I haven't tested
it with gnome.

 --
 Your life is like a penny.  You're going to lose it.  The question is:
 How do
 you spend it?

  John Covici
  cov...@ccs.covici.com

Re: [gentoo-user] [Way OT] Tally ho!

[Alan McKinnon]

On 29/06/2014 18:38, Dale wrote:
 Peter Humphrey wrote:
 Of course! I missed the Spitfire, so I don't know how high it flew, but the 
 Hurricane sound from no more than a couple of hundred feet or so was among 
 the 
 two or three most impressive of my life. Both planes have V12 Rolls-Royce 
 Merlin engines (I think). As each cylinder fired, the sound pressure went up 
 extremely fast at the start of the exhaust beat, suggesting huge exhaust 
 valves, and the deep-throated roar was ... just ... beyond description.

 The only engine to come close was an extraordinary 1/3 scale model of a nine-
 cylinder radial aero-engine I saw years ago at a national model engineering 
 exhibition. The crankshaft was anchored to the frame, and the entire engine 
 and prop rotated around it. That's what you call air-cooling! Absolutely 
 fantastic when he fired it up once an hour or so!
 
 Yep.  Some of those prop engines are very powerful, maybe not so
 efficient tho.  Anyway, they sure do make some noise even if the engine
 is small.  I don't think they have mufflers or if they do, it isn't much
 of one.  I also think they burn methanol or something too.  I'm not sure
 and it may even vary from one engine to another.  I don't think they
 burn plain old gas like cars. 


The Harvard trainers we were using when I was in the military all used
140-odd octane gasoline, I beleive that's normal for aircraft piston
engines. It's still gas, but not what you put in the car. You should see
what that stuff does for a little old 1600 Mazda - goes like the
clappers but the motor doesn't last very long :-)

Those Harvards[1] are famous around here, anyone in the SAAF until 15
years ago knows the sound well, it's very distinctive. Nowhere near as
loud as the V12 Merlin



[1]
http://www.saairforce.co.za/the-airforce/aircraft/38/harvard-1-iia-iii-na-88





 
 
 I live about 4 or 5 miles from a air force base here.  We have mostly
 training type planes that fly over us but on occasion, we have something
 really big here.  We have even had the space shuttle land there a few 
 times. 
 The B2 bombers have been there as well.
 Sounds like a good place to live! That's not Edwards, is it? I drove up to 
 the 
 gates once to see what they'd say. They were actually quite polite.
 
 I'm close to Columbus Air Force base in Mississippi.  It has a huge
 runway.  It is one reason the space shuttle lands here.  It takes a long
 runway to land and take off when carrying that thing.  I say space
 shuttle, it's mounted on the back of a 747 I think.  What's more neat
 tho is the big bombers.  My Dad several decades ago was doing a contract
 job at the base.  For some reason they had the really big bombers out
 there with armed military guards everywhere.   They wouldn't let anyone
 even near those things. He could see them real good tho.  He said it
 looked like death, just plain death.  Later on my Dad found out it was
 loaded up with bombs that they were moving somewhere else.   Death was
 more accurate than he thought.

I also spent time at Hoedspruit, and every time the Shuttle was coming
home the base would be on standby alert. there's two runways in the
southern hemisphere that could land a shuttle - Hoedspruit (7 miles) and
one in Australia somewhere. It was never needed so we never did get to
see a Shuttle live. Pity, but maybe it's for the best, I don't recall
ever seeing a 70 ton mobile crane hanging around to get it up onto a 747
for the flight home :-)



We *do* get to see the USAF's enormous transport planes every two when
the SAAF puts on it's bi-annual air-show. USAF is kind enough to always
bring their big 'uns. But never the good stuff, so we don't get to see
the B2  :-(







-- 
Alan McKinnon
alan.mckin...@gmail.com

Re: [gentoo-user] how to wake up gdm

[Michael Cook]

On 06/29/2014 03:20 PM, cov...@ccs.covici.com wrote:

Tom Wijsman tom...@gentoo.org wrote:


On Tue, 24 Jun 2014 22:36:14 +0300
Gevisz gev...@gmail.com wrote:


Are you sure that you need gdm at all?


Yes, `startx` doesn't work well in GNOME 3 for a lot of people; so,
unless one attempts to cover what the login manager sets up, I don't
think that a plain call with a plain `exec gnome-session` will work.

It for example needs the *-launch things between exec and gnome-session.


So, What can I do aside from restarting gdm after it goes to sleep or
whatever its doing after a few minutes?  Also, I did try startx and I
did get a session and it seems to work, although I have not tested
extensively.


What are your settings under the Power settings in the settings app? I 
have Blank screen: 5 minutes and Automatic suspend: Off (there are no 
other settings under Suspend  Power Off)

Re: [gentoo-user] [Way OT] Tally ho!

[Alan McKinnon]

On 29/06/2014 18:51, waben...@gmail.com wrote:
 Am Sonntag, 29.06.2014 um 11:38
 schrieb Dale rdalek1...@gmail.com:
 
 Peter Humphrey wrote:
 Of course! I missed the Spitfire, so I don't know how high it flew,
 but the Hurricane sound from no more than a couple of hundred feet
 [...]
 
 Please folks, stop that crap. It has nothing to do with gentoo or
 computers at all. If you wanna discuss the delightfulness of war
 machines then please to this at another place and not on this list.
 
 
 
 



Allow me to introduce your to my good friend Delete and his lovely
wife button




-- 
Alan McKinnon
alan.mckin...@gmail.com

[gentoo-user] mount.nfs stale nfs handle

[Alexander Puchmayr]

Hi there,

After upgrading my server to latest stable release of gentoo, none of my 
clients is able to mount any nfs share from the server anymore.

Symptoms:
$ mount -v -t nfs poseidon:/datadisk/ /mnt/gentoo/
mount.nfs: timeout set for Sun Jun 29 19:33:40 2014
mount.nfs: trying text-based options 
'vers=4,addr=192.168.1.6,clientaddr=192.168.1.2'
mount.nfs: mount(2): Protocol not supported
mount.nfs: trying text-based options 'addr=192.168.1.6'
mount.nfs: prog 13, trying vers=3, prot=6
mount.nfs: trying 192.168.1.6 prog 13 vers 3 prot TCP port 2049
mount.nfs: prog 15, trying vers=3, prot=17
mount.nfs: trying 192.168.1.6 prog 15 vers 3 prot UDP port 60058
mount.nfs: mount(2): Stale NFS file handle
mount.nfs: trying text-based options 
'vers=4,addr=192.168.1.6,clientaddr=192.168.1.2'
mount.nfs: mount(2): Protocol not supported
mount.nfs: trying text-based options 'addr=192.168.1.6'
mount.nfs: prog 13, trying vers=3, prot=6
mount.nfs: trying 192.168.1.6 prog 13 vers 3 prot TCP port 2049
mount.nfs: prog 15, trying vers=3, prot=17
mount.nfs: trying 192.168.1.6 prog 15 vers 3 prot UDP port 60058
mount.nfs: mount(2): Stale NFS file handle
[...]
mount.nfs: Connection timed out
$

[Poseidon is my server at 192.168.1.6, the client is at 192.168.1.2]

Server disk to be exported is a ~9TB raid array with XFS.

I'm using nfs3 with ACL and no idmapd; nfs4+ is not compiled into kernel 
(neither on client nor on server); Why it is trying nfs4 first as seen in the 
log above I don't know. nfs-utils has been compiled with USE=-nfsv4

Server has kernel version 3.12.21-gentoo-r1and net-fs/nfs-utils-1.2.9 
installed. As both clients and server are not accessable from outside, no 
firewalls are installed.

What I checked:
/etc/exports:
/datadisk   192.168.1.0/24(rw,async,subtree_check)  
  

portmapper, nfs-services are running normal, as far I can see.

Does anyone have any suggestion?

Thanks,
Alex

Re: [gentoo-user] [Way OT] Tally ho!

[Neil Bothwick]

On Sun, 29 Jun 2014 21:28:10 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote:

 The Harvard trainers we were using when I was in the military all used
 140-odd octane gasoline, I beleive that's normal for aircraft piston
 engines. It's still gas, but not what you put in the car. You should see
 what that stuff does for a little old 1600 Mazda - goes like the
 clappers but the motor doesn't last very long :-)

We used to run that stuff in racing 2-strokes in the 80s. You had to be
careful not to spill it on tarmac, it ate straight through.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Only an idiot actually READS taglines.


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Re: [gentoo-user] [Way OT] Tally ho!

[Neil Bothwick]

On Sun, 29 Jun 2014 21:29:56 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote:

  Please folks, stop that crap. It has nothing to do with gentoo or
  computers at all. If you wanna discuss the delightfulness of war
  machines then please to this at another place and not on this list.

 Allow me to introduce your to my good friend Delete and his lovely
 wife button

Or you could filter anything with OT in the subject to /dev/null. It's
not like this thread is masquerading as something relevant.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

PC DOS Error #03: Windows not found: (C)heer (P)arty (D)ance


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Re: [gentoo-user] mount.nfs stale nfs handle

[Neil Bothwick]

On Sun, 29 Jun 2014 21:34:07 +0200, Alexander Puchmayr wrote:

 After upgrading my server to latest stable release of gentoo, none of
 my clients is able to mount any nfs share from the server anymore.

[snip]

 Server has kernel version 3.12.21-gentoo-r1and net-fs/nfs-utils-1.2.9 
 installed. As both clients and server are not accessable from outside,
 no firewalls are installed.

That's not the latest nfs-utils in stable, it is 1.2.9-r3.

Are you using openrc or systemd? There was a problem with some
systemd service files in recent nfs-utils releases, fixed now.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

I'm not anti-social, I'm just not user friendly


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

[gentoo-user] must/should systemd users package.mask upower-pm-utils

[gottlieb]

My desktop is a fully stable (empty package.accept_keywords) systemd
system.  The profile is .../gnome/system and it boots init=systemd.

The 3 june news asserts all systemd users are recommended to stay with
sys-power/upower.

However update world wants to uninstall upower and install
upower-pm-utils.

Adding sys-power/upower-pm-utils to /etc/package.mask, fixed the
problem, but I wonder if I chose an appropriate fix.  I was a little
surprised that a stable system would need an entry in package.mask.

Any advice would be appreciated,
allan

PS I realize that the news item concerned hibernate/suspend so is not
relevant, but the same issue uninstall/install occurs on my laptop.
Those systems have a less simple goingstable setup and are more
important to me so I prefer to first change the fully stable desktop.

Re: [gentoo-user] how to wake up gdm

[covici]

Michael Cook mc...@mackal.net wrote:

 On 06/29/2014 03:20 PM, cov...@ccs.covici.com wrote:
  Tom Wijsman tom...@gentoo.org wrote:
 
  On Tue, 24 Jun 2014 22:36:14 +0300
  Gevisz gev...@gmail.com wrote:
 
  Are you sure that you need gdm at all?
 
  Yes, `startx` doesn't work well in GNOME 3 for a lot of people; so,
  unless one attempts to cover what the login manager sets up, I don't
  think that a plain call with a plain `exec gnome-session` will work.
 
  It for example needs the *-launch things between exec and gnome-session.
 
  So, What can I do aside from restarting gdm after it goes to sleep or
  whatever its doing after a few minutes?  Also, I did try startx and I
  did get a session and it seems to work, although I have not tested
  extensively.
 
 
 What are your settings under the Power settings in the settings app? I
 have Blank screen: 5 minutes and Automatic suspend: Off (there are no
 other settings under Suspend  Power Off)

But if I change them when I am logged in as my regular user, with they
apply to gdm?
They seem OK, I don't get any screen blanking in a regular session.


-- 
Your life is like a penny.  You're going to lose it.  The question is:
How do
you spend it?

 John Covici
 cov...@ccs.covici.com

Re: [gentoo-user] must/should systemd users package.mask upower-pm-utils

[Alan McKinnon]

On 29/06/2014 22:09, gottl...@nyu.edu wrote:
 My desktop is a fully stable (empty package.accept_keywords) systemd
 system.  The profile is .../gnome/system and it boots init=systemd.
 
 The 3 june news asserts all systemd users are recommended to stay with
 sys-power/upower.
 
 However update world wants to uninstall upower and install
 upower-pm-utils.
 
 Adding sys-power/upower-pm-utils to /etc/package.mask, fixed the
 problem, but I wonder if I chose an appropriate fix.  I was a little
 surprised that a stable system would need an entry in package.mask.
 
 Any advice would be appreciated,
 allan
 
 PS I realize that the news item concerned hibernate/suspend so is not
 relevant, but the same issue uninstall/install occurs on my laptop.
 Those systems have a less simple goingstable setup and are more
 important to me so I prefer to first change the fully stable desktop.


Are you still dealing with this same output you posted about on the 26th?

Calculating dependencies... done!

[ebuild U  ] x11-wm/sawfish-1.9.1-r2 [1.9.1-r1] USE=emacs%* nls
-xinerama 2,556 kB
[nomerge   ] gnome-base/gnome-3.10.0:2.0  USE=bluetooth cdr classic
cups extras -accessibility
[nomerge   ]  gnome-base/gnome-shell-3.10.4-r2  USE=bluetooth i18n
networkmanager (-openrc-force) PYTHON_TARGETS=python2_7
[nomerge   ]   sys-power/upower-pm-utils-0.9.23-r2
USE=introspection -ios
[blocks b  ]sys-power/upower (sys-power/upower is blocking
sys-power/upower-pm-utils-0.9.23-r2)
[uninstall ] sys-power/upower-0.9.23-r3  USE=introspection -doc
-ios
[ebuild  N ]   sys-power/upower-pm-utils-0.9.23-r2
USE=introspection -ios 0 kB

That is gnome-shell pulling in upower || upower-pm-utils and for some
reason it chose the one you do not want.

Using package.mask is valid (it's a documented tool and not only for
~arch - all it means is that you do not want the listed packages and
there could be many reasons for that) but it does seem a bit heavy-handed.

Normally, manually installing upower should be enough to satisfy the dep
and keep upower-pm-utils off your machine, but bugs are possible I suppose.

Is there any bugs on b.g.o. about this?
Run emerge with -t and post the relevant section, let's see why the
wrong package is being pulled in. Also the output of

equery depends upower
equery depends upower-pm-utils






-- 
Alan McKinnon
alan.mckin...@gmail.com

Re: [gentoo-user] how to wake up gdm

[covici]

Jc García jyo.gar...@gmail.com wrote:

 2014-06-29 13:20 GMT-06:00  cov...@ccs.covici.com:
  Tom Wijsman tom...@gentoo.org wrote:
 
  On Tue, 24 Jun 2014 22:36:14 +0300
  Gevisz gev...@gmail.com wrote:
 
   Are you sure that you need gdm at all?
 
  Yes, `startx` doesn't work well in GNOME 3 for a lot of people; so,
  unless one attempts to cover what the login manager sets up, I don't
  think that a plain call with a plain `exec gnome-session` will work.
 
  It for example needs the *-launch things between exec and gnome-session.
 
 
  So, What can I do aside from restarting gdm after it goes to sleep or
  whatever its doing after a few minutes?  Also, I did try startx and I
  did get a session and it seems to work, although I have not tested
  extensively.
 
 Have you tried any other DM? technically gdm, just calls
 gnome-session( it does other things, but thats the main goal), so I'd
 guess, you could use something like lightdm. altought I haven't tested
 it with gnome.

I have tried xfce4 using startx and it worked great under openrc and I
went to a lot of trouble to boot with systemd to keep using gnome, but
maybe I will go back to xfce4 after all, if using startx with
gnome-session gives problems.

-- 
Your life is like a penny.  You're going to lose it.  The question is:
How do
you spend it?

 John Covici
 cov...@ccs.covici.com

[gentoo-user] systemd warning kernel 3.10 required

[covici]

What is the significance of the warning when updating to systemd-214
that kernel 3.10 is required?  I can't go to that now, what might break?

Thanks.

-- 
Your life is like a penny.  You're going to lose it.  The question is:
How do
you spend it?

 John Covici
 cov...@ccs.covici.com

Re: [gentoo-user] [Way OT] Tally ho!

[wabenbau]

Am Sonntag, 29.06.2014 um 20:38
schrieb Neil Bothwick n...@digimed.co.uk:

 On Sun, 29 Jun 2014 21:29:56 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote:
 
   Please folks, stop that crap. It has nothing to do with gentoo or
   computers at all. If you wanna discuss the delightfulness of war
   machines then please to this at another place and not on this
   list.
 
  Allow me to introduce your to my good friend Delete and his lovely
  wife button
 
 Or you could filter anything with OT in the subject to /dev/null. It's
 not like this thread is masquerading as something relevant.


That's not the point. If you wanna talk about stuff that's apparently
absolut useless to almost every member of this ML, then you should do
this at another place. Especially discussions with politically and or
military background are IMHO absolutely inappropriate.

But hey, maybe I'm wrong. Why shouldn't we talk here about everything
that cross one's mind? We could mark it as OT in the subject line, so it
should be no problem for everyone. Maybe we should discuss the local
daily weather? I think, that's a pretty good idea as it would increase
the noise level of this list even more. What do you think? 

Re: [gentoo-user] mount.nfs stale nfs handle

[Alexander Puchmayr]

Am Sonntag, 29. Juni 2014, 20:41:55 schrieb Neil Bothwick:
 On Sun, 29 Jun 2014 21:34:07 +0200, Alexander Puchmayr wrote:
  After upgrading my server to latest stable release of gentoo, none of
  my clients is able to mount any nfs share from the server anymore.
 
 [snip]
 
  Server has kernel version 3.12.21-gentoo-r1and net-fs/nfs-utils-1.2.9
  installed. As both clients and server are not accessable from outside,
  no firewalls are installed.
 
 That's not the latest nfs-utils in stable, it is 1.2.9-r3.
 

This morning it was masked; OK, emerge --sync  emerge nfs-utils.
After restarting all nfs relevant services it is still the same :-(

 Are you using openrc or systemd? There was a problem with some
 systemd service files in recent nfs-utils releases, fixed now.

I'm using openrc.

Alex

Re: [gentoo-user] [Way OT] Tally ho!

[Dale]

waben...@gmail.com wrote:
 Am Sonntag, 29.06.2014 um 20:38
 schrieb Neil Bothwick n...@digimed.co.uk:

 On Sun, 29 Jun 2014 21:29:56 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote:

 Please folks, stop that crap. It has nothing to do with gentoo or
 computers at all. If you wanna discuss the delightfulness of war
 machines then please to this at another place and not on this
 list.
 Allow me to introduce your to my good friend Delete and his lovely
 wife button
 Or you could filter anything with OT in the subject to /dev/null. It's
 not like this thread is masquerading as something relevant.

 That's not the point. If you wanna talk about stuff that's apparently
 absolut useless to almost every member of this ML, then you should do
 this at another place. Especially discussions with politically and or
 military background are IMHO absolutely inappropriate.

 But hey, maybe I'm wrong. Why shouldn't we talk here about everything
 that cross one's mind? We could mark it as OT in the subject line, so it
 should be no problem for everyone. Maybe we should discuss the local
 daily weather? I think, that's a pretty good idea as it would increase
 the noise level of this list even more. What do you think? 





Just a FYI.  I have in the past asked questions about Windoze XP on this
very list.  Why, I'm not joining a windoze mailing list for just one
question and I know a lot of people on this list know about windoze as
well.  I have seen other topics raised on this list before.  It's not
often but it does happen.  I see Gentoo threads that don't interest me
at all and I just mark them as read and move right along but I don't
tell folks that I don't want to see them.  I could start with systemd. 
If I see systemd in the subject, I mark it read and move right along
usually without reading even the first post. Why, I don't use systemd so
I am certainly not interested in it.  There are other threads that I do
the same thing with. 

Just saying.

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] systemd warning kernel 3.10 required

[Canek Peláez Valdés]

On Sun, Jun 29, 2014 at 3:43 PM,  cov...@ccs.covici.com wrote:
 What is the significance of the warning when updating to systemd-214
 that kernel 3.10 is required?  I can't go to that now, what might break?

The README from systemd still says that you need 3.8 [1] (3.0 without
some features); also, in the mailing list there was some discussions
about some stuff being fixed so 3.8 remained the lower bound.

sources.g.o seems to be down, so I can't see the ebuild, but I don't
know of any strong reason to demand 3.10. I think they were waiting
for the kdbus kernel inclusion to depend on it.

Regards.

[1] http://cgit.freedesktop.org/systemd/systemd/tree/README#n42
-- 
Canek Peláez Valdés
Profesor de asignatura, Facultad de Ciencias
Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México

Re: [gentoo-user] how to wake up gdm

[Jc García]

2014-06-29 14:37 GMT-06:00  cov...@ccs.covici.com:

 I have tried xfce4 using startx and it worked great under openrc and I
 went to a lot of trouble to boot with systemd to keep using gnome, but
 maybe I will go back to xfce4 after all, if using startx with
 gnome-session gives problems.

If you want to run gnome-session from startx, I think your minimum
line should be:
exec /usr/bin/dbus-lauch --exit-with-session /usr/bin/gnome-session
I have eventually used that for long sessions, but I haven't got
around, making it not ask the keyring password, as I only use startx
for starting awesome now, when I don't want to use a lot of ram.

It comes to my mind a workaround for your case, you point out this
only happends when you leave gdm sitting there without starting a
session, wasting your ram anyway, so why don't you change your systemd
defalut.target to just multiuser.target, configure gdm to auto-login
your user, alias myxsession=sudo systemctl start gdm.service in your
.bashrc, and add proper line for your user with NOPASSWD parameter for
that on /etc/sudoers, I would do that if I didn't logged into a X
session right away after boot.

Its a shame it's going bad for you, I've actually had a good
experience with the versatility of systemd these past months, and
gnome has become a nice desktop in my opinion.

 --
 Your life is like a penny.  You're going to lose it.  The question is:
 How do
 you spend it?

  John Covici
  cov...@ccs.covici.com

Re: [gentoo-user] must/should systemd users package.mask upower-pm-utils

[gottlieb]

On Sun, Jun 29 2014, Alan McKinnon wrote:

 On 29/06/2014 22:09, gottl...@nyu.edu wrote:
 My desktop is a fully stable (empty package.accept_keywords) systemd
 system.  The profile is .../gnome/system and it boots init=systemd.
 
 The 3 june news asserts all systemd users are recommended to stay with
 sys-power/upower.
 
 However update world wants to uninstall upower and install
 upower-pm-utils.
 
 Adding sys-power/upower-pm-utils to /etc/package.mask, fixed the
 problem, but I wonder if I chose an appropriate fix.  I was a little
 surprised that a stable system would need an entry in package.mask.
 
 Any advice would be appreciated,
 allan
 
 PS I realize that the news item concerned hibernate/suspend so is not
 relevant, but the same issue uninstall/install occurs on my laptop.
 Those systems have a less simple goingstable setup and are more
 important to me so I prefer to first change the fully stable desktop.


 Are you still dealing with this same output you posted about on the 26th?

 Calculating dependencies... done!

 [ebuild U  ] x11-wm/sawfish-1.9.1-r2 [1.9.1-r1] USE=emacs%* nls
 -xinerama 2,556 kB
 [nomerge   ] gnome-base/gnome-3.10.0:2.0  USE=bluetooth cdr classic
 cups extras -accessibility
 [nomerge   ]  gnome-base/gnome-shell-3.10.4-r2  USE=bluetooth i18n
 networkmanager (-openrc-force) PYTHON_TARGETS=python2_7
 [nomerge   ]   sys-power/upower-pm-utils-0.9.23-r2
 USE=introspection -ios
 [blocks b  ]sys-power/upower (sys-power/upower is blocking
 sys-power/upower-pm-utils-0.9.23-r2)
 [uninstall ] sys-power/upower-0.9.23-r3  USE=introspection -doc
 -ios
 [ebuild  N ]   sys-power/upower-pm-utils-0.9.23-r2
 USE=introspection -ios 0 kB

 That is gnome-shell pulling in upower || upower-pm-utils and for some
 reason it chose the one you do not want.

 Using package.mask is valid (it's a documented tool and not only for
 ~arch - all it means is that you do not want the listed packages and
 there could be many reasons for that) but it does seem a bit heavy-handed.

 Normally, manually installing upower should be enough to satisfy the dep
 and keep upower-pm-utils off your machine, but bugs are possible I suppose.

 Is there any bugs on b.g.o. about this?
 Run emerge with -t and post the relevant section, let's see why the
 wrong package is being pulled in. Also the output of

 equery depends upower
 equery depends upower-pm-utils

Yes it is the same general issue.  But I moved from my goingstable
laptop to my fully stable desktop, hoping it would be clearer.
I did run the emerge world with -t on the desktop.  I am now temporarily
removing the package.mask entry and running it again.  The output is

Calculating dependencies... done!
[nomerge   ] gnome-base/gnome-3.10.0:2.0  USE=bluetooth cdr classic cups 
extras -accessibility 
[nomerge   ]  gnome-base/gnome-shell-3.10.4-r2  USE=bluetooth i18n 
networkmanager (-openrc-force) PYTHON_TARGETS=python2_7 
[nomerge   ]   sys-power/upower-pm-utils-0.9.23-r2  USE=introspection 
-ios 
[blocks b  ]sys-power/upower (sys-power/upower is blocking 
sys-power/upower-pm-utils-0.9.23-r2)
[uninstall ] sys-power/upower-0.9.23-r3  USE=introspection -doc -ios 
[ebuild  N ]   sys-power/upower-pm-utils-0.9.23-r2  USE=introspection 
-ios 0 kB
Total: 1 package (1 new, 1 uninstall), Size of downloads: 0 kB
Conflict: 1 block

I did not do this upgrade and with my package.mask in place, update
world says nothing to merge.

The equery's give

allan ~ # equery depends upower
 * These packages depend on upower:
app-misc/tracker-0.16.4 (laptop ? sys-power/upower-0.99)
gnome-base/gnome-control-center-3.10.3 (sys-power/upower-0.99)
gnome-base/gnome-session-3.10.1 (sys-power/upower-0.99)
gnome-base/gnome-settings-daemon-3.10.2 (sys-power/upower-0.99)
gnome-base/gnome-shell-3.10.4-r2 (sys-power/upower-0.99[introspection])
gnome-extra/gnome-power-manager-3.10.1 (sys-power/upower-0.99)
net-im/telepathy-mission-control-5.14.1 (upower ? =sys-power/upower-0.9.11)
(upower ? sys-power/upower-0.99)
net-misc/networkmanager-0.9.8.8 (sys-power/upower)
x11-wm/mutter-3.10.4 (sys-power/upower-0.99)
allan ~ # equery depends upower-pm-utils
 * These packages depend on upower-pm-utils:
app-misc/tracker-0.16.4 (laptop ? sys-power/upower-pm-utils)
gnome-base/gnome-control-center-3.10.3 (sys-power/upower-pm-utils)
gnome-base/gnome-session-3.10.1 (sys-power/upower-pm-utils)
gnome-base/gnome-settings-daemon-3.10.2 (sys-power/upower-pm-utils)
gnome-base/gnome-shell-3.10.4-r2 (sys-power/upower-pm-utils[introspection])
gnome-extra/gnome-power-manager-3.10.1 (sys-power/upower-pm-utils)
net-im/telepathy-mission-control-5.14.1 (sys-power/upower-pm-utils)
net-misc/networkmanager-0.9.8.8 (sys-power/upower-pm-utils)
x11-wm/mutter-3.10.4 (sys-power/upower-pm-utils)
allan ~ # 

When I started this project there were no related bugs in b.g.o.
I will investigate them

513842 - talks about a upower mask from the 

Re: [gentoo-user] [Way OT] Tally ho!

[Neil Bothwick]

On Sun, 29 Jun 2014 22:46:50 +0200, waben...@gmail.com wrote:

 That's not the point. If you wanna talk about stuff that's apparently
 absolut useless to almost every member of this ML, then you should do
 this at another place. Especially discussions with politically and or
 military background are IMHO absolutely inappropriate.

I don't consider this either political or military. The Spitfire and
Hurricane are classic aircraft and respected from a technological point of
view (speaking militarily, the Me109 was probably a more capable
fighting machine).

 But hey, maybe I'm wrong. Why shouldn't we talk here about everything
 that cross one's mind? We could mark it as OT in the subject line, so it
 should be no problem for everyone. Maybe we should discuss the local
 daily weather? I think, that's a pretty good idea as it would increase
 the noise level of this list even more. What do you think? 

I think you should calm down. If people who post a lot of useful
information to this list want to engage in clearly highlighted light
relief, let them. I found the thread interesting to read but did not
contribute, partly because it was OT, so your heavy handed intervention
has only served to worsen the situation (now we are getting in to
military and political areas).


-- 
Neil Bothwick

A closed mouth gathers no foot.


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Re: [gentoo-user] must/should systemd users package.mask upower-pm-utils

[gottlieb]

On Sun, Jun 29 2014, gottl...@nyu.edu wrote:

 When I started this project there were no related bugs in b.g.o.
 I will investigate them

Pretty tricky huh.

When I started this project there were no related bugs in b.g.o.; but
there are now.
I will investigate them

Sorry,
allan

Re: [gentoo-user] must/should systemd users package.mask upower-pm-utils

[Alan McKinnon]

On 29/06/2014 23:57, gottl...@nyu.edu wrote:
 On Sun, Jun 29 2014, Alan McKinnon wrote:
 
 On 29/06/2014 22:09, gottl...@nyu.edu wrote:
 My desktop is a fully stable (empty package.accept_keywords) systemd
 system.  The profile is .../gnome/system and it boots init=systemd.

 The 3 june news asserts all systemd users are recommended to stay with
 sys-power/upower.

 However update world wants to uninstall upower and install
 upower-pm-utils.

 Adding sys-power/upower-pm-utils to /etc/package.mask, fixed the
 problem, but I wonder if I chose an appropriate fix.  I was a little
 surprised that a stable system would need an entry in package.mask.

 Any advice would be appreciated,
 allan

 PS I realize that the news item concerned hibernate/suspend so is not
 relevant, but the same issue uninstall/install occurs on my laptop.
 Those systems have a less simple goingstable setup and are more
 important to me so I prefer to first change the fully stable desktop.


 Are you still dealing with this same output you posted about on the 26th?

 Calculating dependencies... done!

 [ebuild U  ] x11-wm/sawfish-1.9.1-r2 [1.9.1-r1] USE=emacs%* nls
 -xinerama 2,556 kB
 [nomerge   ] gnome-base/gnome-3.10.0:2.0  USE=bluetooth cdr classic
 cups extras -accessibility
 [nomerge   ]  gnome-base/gnome-shell-3.10.4-r2  USE=bluetooth i18n
 networkmanager (-openrc-force) PYTHON_TARGETS=python2_7
 [nomerge   ]   sys-power/upower-pm-utils-0.9.23-r2
 USE=introspection -ios
 [blocks b  ]sys-power/upower (sys-power/upower is blocking
 sys-power/upower-pm-utils-0.9.23-r2)
 [uninstall ] sys-power/upower-0.9.23-r3  USE=introspection -doc
 -ios
 [ebuild  N ]   sys-power/upower-pm-utils-0.9.23-r2
 USE=introspection -ios 0 kB

 That is gnome-shell pulling in upower || upower-pm-utils and for some
 reason it chose the one you do not want.

 Using package.mask is valid (it's a documented tool and not only for
 ~arch - all it means is that you do not want the listed packages and
 there could be many reasons for that) but it does seem a bit heavy-handed.

 Normally, manually installing upower should be enough to satisfy the dep
 and keep upower-pm-utils off your machine, but bugs are possible I suppose.

 Is there any bugs on b.g.o. about this?
 Run emerge with -t and post the relevant section, let's see why the
 wrong package is being pulled in. Also the output of

 equery depends upower
 equery depends upower-pm-utils
 
 Yes it is the same general issue.  But I moved from my goingstable
 laptop to my fully stable desktop, hoping it would be clearer.
 I did run the emerge world with -t on the desktop.  I am now temporarily
 removing the package.mask entry and running it again.  The output is
 
 Calculating dependencies... done!
 [nomerge   ] gnome-base/gnome-3.10.0:2.0  USE=bluetooth cdr classic cups 
 extras -accessibility 
 [nomerge   ]  gnome-base/gnome-shell-3.10.4-r2  USE=bluetooth i18n 
 networkmanager (-openrc-force) PYTHON_TARGETS=python2_7 
 [nomerge   ]   sys-power/upower-pm-utils-0.9.23-r2  USE=introspection 
 -ios 
 [blocks b  ]sys-power/upower (sys-power/upower is blocking 
 sys-power/upower-pm-utils-0.9.23-r2)
 [uninstall ] sys-power/upower-0.9.23-r3  USE=introspection -doc 
 -ios 
 [ebuild  N ]   sys-power/upower-pm-utils-0.9.23-r2  USE=introspection 
 -ios 0 kB
 Total: 1 package (1 new, 1 uninstall), Size of downloads: 0 kB
 Conflict: 1 block
 
 I did not do this upgrade and with my package.mask in place, update
 world says nothing to merge.
 
 The equery's give
 
 allan ~ # equery depends upower
  * These packages depend on upower:
 app-misc/tracker-0.16.4 (laptop ? sys-power/upower-0.99)
 gnome-base/gnome-control-center-3.10.3 (sys-power/upower-0.99)
 gnome-base/gnome-session-3.10.1 (sys-power/upower-0.99)
 gnome-base/gnome-settings-daemon-3.10.2 (sys-power/upower-0.99)
 gnome-base/gnome-shell-3.10.4-r2 (sys-power/upower-0.99[introspection])
 gnome-extra/gnome-power-manager-3.10.1 (sys-power/upower-0.99)
 net-im/telepathy-mission-control-5.14.1 (upower ? =sys-power/upower-0.9.11)
 (upower ? sys-power/upower-0.99)
 net-misc/networkmanager-0.9.8.8 (sys-power/upower)
 x11-wm/mutter-3.10.4 (sys-power/upower-0.99)
 allan ~ # equery depends upower-pm-utils
  * These packages depend on upower-pm-utils:
 app-misc/tracker-0.16.4 (laptop ? sys-power/upower-pm-utils)
 gnome-base/gnome-control-center-3.10.3 (sys-power/upower-pm-utils)
 gnome-base/gnome-session-3.10.1 (sys-power/upower-pm-utils)
 gnome-base/gnome-settings-daemon-3.10.2 (sys-power/upower-pm-utils)
 gnome-base/gnome-shell-3.10.4-r2 (sys-power/upower-pm-utils[introspection])
 gnome-extra/gnome-power-manager-3.10.1 (sys-power/upower-pm-utils)
 net-im/telepathy-mission-control-5.14.1 (sys-power/upower-pm-utils)
 net-misc/networkmanager-0.9.8.8 (sys-power/upower-pm-utils)
 x11-wm/mutter-3.10.4 (sys-power/upower-pm-utils)
 allan ~ # 
 
 When I started this project there were 

Re: [gentoo-user] [Way OT] Tally ho!

[wabenbau]

Am Sonntag, 29.06.2014 um 16:26
schrieb Dale rdalek1...@gmail.com:

 waben...@gmail.com wrote:
  Am Sonntag, 29.06.2014 um 20:38
  schrieb Neil Bothwick n...@digimed.co.uk:
 
  On Sun, 29 Jun 2014 21:29:56 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote:
 
  Please folks, stop that crap. It has nothing to do with gentoo or
  computers at all. If you wanna discuss the delightfulness of war
  machines then please to this at another place and not on this
  list.
  Allow me to introduce your to my good friend Delete and his
  lovely wife button
  Or you could filter anything with OT in the subject to /dev/null.
  It's not like this thread is masquerading as something relevant.
 
  That's not the point. If you wanna talk about stuff that's
  apparently absolut useless to almost every member of this ML, then
  you should do this at another place. Especially discussions with
  politically and or military background are IMHO absolutely
  inappropriate.
 
  But hey, maybe I'm wrong. Why shouldn't we talk here about
  everything that cross one's mind? We could mark it as OT in the
  subject line, so it should be no problem for everyone. Maybe we
  should discuss the local daily weather? I think, that's a pretty
  good idea as it would increase the noise level of this list even
  more. What do you think? 
 
 
 
 
 
 Just a FYI.  I have in the past asked questions about Windoze XP on
 this very list.  Why, I'm not joining a windoze mailing list for just
 one question and I know a lot of people on this list know about
 windoze as well.  I have seen other topics raised on this list
 before.  It's not often but it does happen.  I see Gentoo threads
 that don't interest me at all and I just mark them as read and move
 right along but I don't tell folks that I don't want to see them.  I
 could start with systemd. If I see systemd in the subject, I mark it
 read and move right along usually without reading even the first
 post. Why, I don't use systemd so I am certainly not interested in
 it.  There are other threads that I do the same thing with. 

That's right. But all examples you've mentioned are computer related
topics and maybe useful for anyone on this list. 

Re: [gentoo-user] [Way OT] Tally ho!

[wabenbau]

Am Sonntag, 29.06.2014 um 22:59
schrieb Neil Bothwick n...@digimed.co.uk:

 On Sun, 29 Jun 2014 22:46:50 +0200, waben...@gmail.com wrote:
 
  That's not the point. If you wanna talk about stuff that's
  apparently absolut useless to almost every member of this ML, then
  you should do this at another place. Especially discussions with
  politically and or military background are IMHO absolutely
  inappropriate.
 
 I don't consider this either political or military. The Spitfire and
 Hurricane are classic aircraft and respected from a technological
 point of view (speaking militarily, the Me109 was probably a more
 capable fighting machine).

I don't wanna answer to this because it would possibly lead to a really
politically discussion. ;-) 

  But hey, maybe I'm wrong. Why shouldn't we talk here about
  everything that cross one's mind? We could mark it as OT in the
  subject line, so it should be no problem for everyone. Maybe we
  should discuss the local daily weather? I think, that's a pretty
  good idea as it would increase the noise level of this list even
  more. What do you think? 
 
 I think you should calm down. If people who post a lot of useful
 information to this list want to engage in clearly highlighted light
 relief, let them. I found the thread interesting to read but did not
 contribute, partly because it was OT, so your heavy handed
 intervention has only served to worsen the situation (now we are
 getting in to military and political areas).

Words full of wisdom. I need a moment to clear my mind...

...I decided that I will not receive this mailing list on my smartphone
any longer. Reading it on my Desktop-PC is sufficient. This will help me
to calm down. ;-)

Re: [gentoo-user] must/should systemd users package.mask upower-pm-utils

[gottlieb]

On Sun, Jun 29 2014, Alan McKinnon wrote:

 On 29/06/2014 23:57, gottl...@nyu.edu wrote:
 On Sun, Jun 29 2014, Alan McKinnon wrote:
 
 On 29/06/2014 22:09, gottl...@nyu.edu wrote:
 My desktop is a fully stable (empty package.accept_keywords) systemd
 system.  The profile is .../gnome/system and it boots init=systemd.

 The 3 june news asserts all systemd users are recommended to stay with
 sys-power/upower.

 However update world wants to uninstall upower and install
 upower-pm-utils.

 Adding sys-power/upower-pm-utils to /etc/package.mask, fixed the
 problem, but I wonder if I chose an appropriate fix.  I was a little
 surprised that a stable system would need an entry in package.mask.

 Any advice would be appreciated,
 allan

 PS I realize that the news item concerned hibernate/suspend so is not
 relevant, but the same issue uninstall/install occurs on my laptop.
 Those systems have a less simple goingstable setup and are more
 important to me so I prefer to first change the fully stable desktop.


 Are you still dealing with this same output you posted about on the 26th?

 Calculating dependencies... done!

 [ebuild U  ] x11-wm/sawfish-1.9.1-r2 [1.9.1-r1] USE=emacs%* nls
 -xinerama 2,556 kB
 [nomerge   ] gnome-base/gnome-3.10.0:2.0  USE=bluetooth cdr classic
 cups extras -accessibility
 [nomerge   ]  gnome-base/gnome-shell-3.10.4-r2  USE=bluetooth i18n
 networkmanager (-openrc-force) PYTHON_TARGETS=python2_7
 [nomerge   ]   sys-power/upower-pm-utils-0.9.23-r2
 USE=introspection -ios
 [blocks b  ]sys-power/upower (sys-power/upower is blocking
 sys-power/upower-pm-utils-0.9.23-r2)
 [uninstall ] sys-power/upower-0.9.23-r3  USE=introspection -doc
 -ios
 [ebuild  N ]   sys-power/upower-pm-utils-0.9.23-r2
 USE=introspection -ios 0 kB

 That is gnome-shell pulling in upower || upower-pm-utils and for some
 reason it chose the one you do not want.

 Using package.mask is valid (it's a documented tool and not only for
 ~arch - all it means is that you do not want the listed packages and
 there could be many reasons for that) but it does seem a bit heavy-handed.

 Normally, manually installing upower should be enough to satisfy the dep
 and keep upower-pm-utils off your machine, but bugs are possible I suppose.

 Is there any bugs on b.g.o. about this?
 Run emerge with -t and post the relevant section, let's see why the
 wrong package is being pulled in. Also the output of

 equery depends upower
 equery depends upower-pm-utils
 
 Yes it is the same general issue.  But I moved from my goingstable
 laptop to my fully stable desktop, hoping it would be clearer.
 I did run the emerge world with -t on the desktop.  I am now temporarily
 removing the package.mask entry and running it again.  The output is
 
 Calculating dependencies... done!
 [nomerge   ] gnome-base/gnome-3.10.0:2.0  USE=bluetooth cdr classic 
 cups extras -accessibility 
 [nomerge   ]  gnome-base/gnome-shell-3.10.4-r2  USE=bluetooth i18n 
 networkmanager (-openrc-force) PYTHON_TARGETS=python2_7 
 [nomerge   ]   sys-power/upower-pm-utils-0.9.23-r2  USE=introspection 
 -ios 
 [blocks b  ]sys-power/upower (sys-power/upower is blocking 
 sys-power/upower-pm-utils-0.9.23-r2)
 [uninstall ] sys-power/upower-0.9.23-r3  USE=introspection -doc 
 -ios 
 [ebuild  N ]   sys-power/upower-pm-utils-0.9.23-r2  USE=introspection 
 -ios 0 kB
 Total: 1 package (1 new, 1 uninstall), Size of downloads: 0 kB
 Conflict: 1 block
 
 I did not do this upgrade and with my package.mask in place, update
 world says nothing to merge.
 
 The equery's give
 
 allan ~ # equery depends upower
  * These packages depend on upower:
 app-misc/tracker-0.16.4 (laptop ? sys-power/upower-0.99)
 gnome-base/gnome-control-center-3.10.3 (sys-power/upower-0.99)
 gnome-base/gnome-session-3.10.1 (sys-power/upower-0.99)
 gnome-base/gnome-settings-daemon-3.10.2 (sys-power/upower-0.99)
 gnome-base/gnome-shell-3.10.4-r2 (sys-power/upower-0.99[introspection])
 gnome-extra/gnome-power-manager-3.10.1 (sys-power/upower-0.99)
 net-im/telepathy-mission-control-5.14.1 (upower ? =sys-power/upower-0.9.11)
 (upower ? sys-power/upower-0.99)
 net-misc/networkmanager-0.9.8.8 (sys-power/upower)
 x11-wm/mutter-3.10.4 (sys-power/upower-0.99)
 allan ~ # equery depends upower-pm-utils
  * These packages depend on upower-pm-utils:
 app-misc/tracker-0.16.4 (laptop ? sys-power/upower-pm-utils)
 gnome-base/gnome-control-center-3.10.3 (sys-power/upower-pm-utils)
 gnome-base/gnome-session-3.10.1 (sys-power/upower-pm-utils)
 gnome-base/gnome-settings-daemon-3.10.2 (sys-power/upower-pm-utils)
 gnome-base/gnome-shell-3.10.4-r2 (sys-power/upower-pm-utils[introspection])
 gnome-extra/gnome-power-manager-3.10.1 (sys-power/upower-pm-utils)
 net-im/telepathy-mission-control-5.14.1 (sys-power/upower-pm-utils)
 net-misc/networkmanager-0.9.8.8 (sys-power/upower-pm-utils)
 x11-wm/mutter-3.10.4 (sys-power/upower-pm-utils)
 allan ~ 

Re: [gentoo-user] [Way OT] Tally ho!

[Dale]

waben...@gmail.com wrote:
 Am Sonntag, 29.06.2014 um 16:26
 schrieb Dale rdalek1...@gmail.com:

 waben...@gmail.com wrote:
 Am Sonntag, 29.06.2014 um 20:38
 schrieb Neil Bothwick n...@digimed.co.uk:

 On Sun, 29 Jun 2014 21:29:56 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote:

 Please folks, stop that crap. It has nothing to do with gentoo or
 computers at all. If you wanna discuss the delightfulness of war
 machines then please to this at another place and not on this
 list.
 Allow me to introduce your to my good friend Delete and his
 lovely wife button
 Or you could filter anything with OT in the subject to /dev/null.
 It's not like this thread is masquerading as something relevant.
 That's not the point. If you wanna talk about stuff that's
 apparently absolut useless to almost every member of this ML, then
 you should do this at another place. Especially discussions with
 politically and or military background are IMHO absolutely
 inappropriate.

 But hey, maybe I'm wrong. Why shouldn't we talk here about
 everything that cross one's mind? We could mark it as OT in the
 subject line, so it should be no problem for everyone. Maybe we
 should discuss the local daily weather? I think, that's a pretty
 good idea as it would increase the noise level of this list even
 more. What do you think? 




 Just a FYI.  I have in the past asked questions about Windoze XP on
 this very list.  Why, I'm not joining a windoze mailing list for just
 one question and I know a lot of people on this list know about
 windoze as well.  I have seen other topics raised on this list
 before.  It's not often but it does happen.  I see Gentoo threads
 that don't interest me at all and I just mark them as read and move
 right along but I don't tell folks that I don't want to see them.  I
 could start with systemd. If I see systemd in the subject, I mark it
 read and move right along usually without reading even the first
 post. Why, I don't use systemd so I am certainly not interested in
 it.  There are other threads that I do the same thing with. 
 That's right. But all examples you've mentioned are computer related
 topics and maybe useful for anyone on this list. 





But windoze is not Gentoo.  If I knew that several people would help me
with a car issue because at some point several mentioned they have or
had that car, I'd ask a car question if it was basically a once or twice
thing or at least rare. 

This isn't the first time a topic has started or ended up being not
related to Gentoo or even computers. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] [Way OT] Tally ho!

[wabenbau]

Am Sonntag, 29.06.2014 um 19:12
schrieb Dale rdalek1...@gmail.com:

 waben...@gmail.com wrote:
  Am Sonntag, 29.06.2014 um 16:26
  schrieb Dale rdalek1...@gmail.com:
 
  waben...@gmail.com wrote:
  Am Sonntag, 29.06.2014 um 20:38
  schrieb Neil Bothwick n...@digimed.co.uk:
 
  On Sun, 29 Jun 2014 21:29:56 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote:
 
  Please folks, stop that crap. It has nothing to do with gentoo
  or computers at all. If you wanna discuss the delightfulness
  of war machines then please to this at another place and not
  on this list.
  Allow me to introduce your to my good friend Delete and his
  lovely wife button
  Or you could filter anything with OT in the subject to /dev/null.
  It's not like this thread is masquerading as something relevant.
  That's not the point. If you wanna talk about stuff that's
  apparently absolut useless to almost every member of this ML, then
  you should do this at another place. Especially discussions with
  politically and or military background are IMHO absolutely
  inappropriate.
 
  But hey, maybe I'm wrong. Why shouldn't we talk here about
  everything that cross one's mind? We could mark it as OT in the
  subject line, so it should be no problem for everyone. Maybe we
  should discuss the local daily weather? I think, that's a pretty
  good idea as it would increase the noise level of this list even
  more. What do you think? 
 
 
 
 
  Just a FYI.  I have in the past asked questions about Windoze XP on
  this very list.  Why, I'm not joining a windoze mailing list for
  just one question and I know a lot of people on this list know
  about windoze as well.  I have seen other topics raised on this
  list before.  It's not often but it does happen.  I see Gentoo
  threads that don't interest me at all and I just mark them as read
  and move right along but I don't tell folks that I don't want to
  see them.  I could start with systemd. If I see systemd in the
  subject, I mark it read and move right along usually without
  reading even the first post. Why, I don't use systemd so I am
  certainly not interested in it.  There are other threads that I do
  the same thing with. 
  That's right. But all examples you've mentioned are computer related
  topics and maybe useful for anyone on this list. 
 
 
 
 
 
 But windoze is not Gentoo.  If I knew that several people would help
 me with a car issue because at some point several mentioned they have
 or had that car, I'd ask a car question if it was basically a once or
 twice thing or at least rare. 

 This isn't the first time a topic has started or ended up being not
 related to Gentoo or even computers. 

You are really tenacious. :-) It seems that I should lower my
expectations regarding what's on-topic and what's not. Lets say, every
topic is fine as long as the poster asks a question about a technical
problem he has and as long as the topic has nothing to do with weapons.
Is that definition ok for you?

But I'm merely a regular member of this ML and this is just my personal
opinion, so never mind me. Talk about what you want, e.g. (historical)
Tanks, (historical) Submarines, (historical) H-Bombs...

Sorry for this tinge of sarcasm. ;-)

Maybe we should finish the discussion here because it is getting
off-topic more and more. :-)

Re: [gentoo-user] how to wake up gdm

[Gevisz]

On Sun, 29 Jun 2014 16:37:12 -0400
cov...@ccs.covici.com wrote:

 Jc García jyo.gar...@gmail.com wrote:
 
  2014-06-29 13:20 GMT-06:00  cov...@ccs.covici.com:
   Tom Wijsman tom...@gentoo.org wrote:
  
   On Tue, 24 Jun 2014 22:36:14 +0300
   Gevisz gev...@gmail.com wrote:
  
Are you sure that you need gdm at all?
  
   Yes, `startx` doesn't work well in GNOME 3 for a lot of people;
   so, unless one attempts to cover what the login manager sets up,
   I don't think that a plain call with a plain `exec
   gnome-session` will work.
  
   It for example needs the *-launch things between exec and
   gnome-session.
  
  
   So, What can I do aside from restarting gdm after it goes to
   sleep or whatever its doing after a few minutes?  Also, I did try
   startx and I did get a session and it seems to work, although I
   have not tested extensively.
  
  Have you tried any other DM? technically gdm, just calls
  gnome-session( it does other things, but thats the main goal), so
  I'd guess, you could use something like lightdm. altought I haven't
  tested it with gnome.
 
 I have tried xfce4 using startx and it worked great under openrc and I
 went to a lot of trouble to boot with systemd to keep using gnome,

 just another reason to return to openrc+xfce4 and, in general,
 to avoid huge complicated programs that do not comply with the unix
 principles

 but maybe I will go back to xfce4 after all, if using startx with
 gnome-session gives problems.