Re: Organizing a Linux Dinner
Hi folks, after reading one full day worth of flame war on kosher, I ask everybody involved to drop this topic and go for the idea of holding a picknick where everybody will bring his food (as mandated by his/her religious believes). This solution will solve ALL of the problems ILUG talked about and we could proceed to some more productive discussions as to where and when to have it. Schlomo PS: Let's everybody show that you are grown up by behaving like adults and respecting the others and finding a compromise that satisfies all (hint: picknick). Sincerely, Schlomo Schapiro --- email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] WWW: http://www.schapiro.org On Mon, 21 Aug 2000, Schlomo Schapiro wrote: Hi, first I would like to recommend Shlomi fot his noble act of trying to organize a dinner. I tried myself once and failed :-( Anyway, as a possible solution to all the food conflicts I again suggest my original idea: Let us make a Linux picknick. The organizers organize the fire and everybody can bring their own food (kosher, veggie or piggy, or even boiled egg...) and drink (I suppose the drink could be organized for all). It would safe a lot of money (for NIS 70 you get enough at any super market) and could be much more fun. For those with family it would be also better since they could bring them along and we would have a big picknick with a Linux corner. Please think about this option, I think it could help us all. Schlomo PS: I once tried to organize it (look at the archives) and will be happy to help again with this. Sincerely, Schlomo Schapiro --- email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] WWW: http://www.schapiro.org On Sun, 20 Aug 2000, Shlomi Fish wrote: I'd like to organize a Linux Dinner some time soon. I myself am quite flexible with the date, but I think we should determine the restaurant first, and then see when it can host us. Please send your suggestions for the restaurant to this list. The requirements for the restaurant are: 1. Being Kosher. 2. Being in the Tel-Aviv area. 3. Serving Vegetarian Food. 4. Affordable. A two course meal should cost 70 NIS or less. I will collect the suggestions and then summarizethem and let the list determine the restuarant. Regards, Shlomi Fish -- Shlomi Fish[EMAIL PROTECTED] Home E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/ I don't believe in fairies. Oops! A fairy died. I don't believe in fairies. Oops! Another fairy died. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Organizing a Linux Dinner
On Tue, 22 Aug 2000, Schlomo Schapiro wrote:
[snip]
PS: Let's everybody show that you are grown up by behaving like adults and
respecting the others and finding a compromise that satisfies all
(hint: picknick).
But we *were* behaving like adults.
Now lets fight about the *time* (Shabbat/ not Shabbat) for the picnic.
Regards,
- yba
Sincerely,
Schlomo Schapiro
---
email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
WWW: http://www.schapiro.org
On Mon, 21 Aug 2000, Schlomo Schapiro wrote:
Hi,
first I would like to recommend Shlomi fot his noble act of trying to
organize a dinner. I tried myself once and failed :-(
Anyway, as a possible solution to all the food conflicts I again suggest
my original idea:
Let us make a Linux picknick. The organizers organize the fire and
everybody can bring their own food (kosher, veggie or piggy, or even
boiled egg...) and drink (I suppose the drink could be organized for all).
It would safe a lot of money (for NIS 70 you get enough at any super
market) and could be much more fun.
For those with family it would be also better since they could bring them
along and we would have a big picknick with a Linux corner.
Please think about this option, I think it could help us all.
Schlomo
PS: I once tried to organize it (look at the archives) and will be happy
to help again with this.
Sincerely,
Schlomo Schapiro
---
email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
WWW: http://www.schapiro.org
On Sun, 20 Aug 2000, Shlomi Fish wrote:
I'd like to organize a Linux Dinner some time soon. I myself am quite
flexible with the date, but I think we should determine the restaurant
first, and then see when it can host us.
Please send your suggestions for the restaurant to this list. The
requirements for the restaurant are:
1. Being Kosher.
2. Being in the Tel-Aviv area.
3. Serving Vegetarian Food.
4. Affordable. A two course meal should cost 70 NIS or less.
I will collect the suggestions and then summarizethem and let the list
determine the restuarant.
Regards,
Shlomi Fish
--
Shlomi Fish[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Home E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/
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I don't believe in fairies. Oops! Another fairy died.
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Re: Organizing a Linux Dinner
On Tue, Aug 22, 2000, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote about "Re: Organizing a Linux Dinner": On Tue, 22 Aug 2000, Schlomo Schapiro wrote: [snip] PS: Let's everybody show that you are grown up by behaving like adults and respecting the others and finding a compromise that satisfies all (hint: picknick). But we *were* behaving like adults. Now lets fight about the *time* (Shabbat/ not Shabbat) for the picnic. I can already see how this turns into another ugly fight... But YBA has a good point here - if you're talking about a lunch picnic, then we can probably forget the idea - Saturdays are impossible (let's not begin to argue why, and which rabbi said what to whom), Fridays are nearly impossible (because some people are religious *and* need to return to their far-away homes), and weekdays are also nearly impossible (unless your boss sees going to Linux picnics part of your work). So we're left with three options, as far as I can see: 1. Return to the restaurant idea. If everything fails, we can go to the "kafe keilu" in Tel-Aviv (does it still exist?) - I'm sure nobody will find them to violate his/her religious/atheistic/crazy beliefs. 2. Have a "brunch" picnic some Friday morning. BTW, I assume that no religious person will have a problem with seeing other people eating a big ham- sandwich-with-cheese next to him in the open? 3. Have a weekday evening bonfire/barbique/whatever, everybody brings their own kosher food or pork with cheese. (but this is complicated because we need to find a place and wood). People, let's think of ideas on how this can work, not ideas of how to distroy it by disrespecting other people. -- Nadav Har'El| Tuesday, Aug 22 2000, 21 Av 5760 [EMAIL PROTECTED] |- Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |Tea or coffee? Coffee, without cream. It http://nadav.harel.org.il |will be without milk, we have no cream. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Organizing a Linux Dinner
3. Have a weekday evening bonfire/barbique/whatever, everybody brings their own kosher food or pork with cheese. (but this is complicated because we need to find a place and wood). Since I like this idea so much, I'll get practical: Wood is difficult. But barbeque is easy - I saw the equipment sold for less than 30 NIS. Lets just assume I take care of that. Place is pretty easy - select a beach, somewhere between tel-aviv and herzelia. Time? I'd say thursday evening, around 20:00? 21:00? Food? How about - each bring his own meat, and some people bring pita, salads and drinks for everyone? A picnic requires some non-trivial amount of work in organization and preperation, I'm pretty upset that no one is willing to be flexible enough to agree on a resturant and prevent this work. Chen Shapira. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Organizing a Linux Dinner
All supervisors please do me a little favor. As I don't care where I eat or what or with whom, and ill be very happy to eat in a kosher restaurant or in picnic or whatever. Please when there will be agreement please post a subject like this ***dinner problem solved*** because I don't have the time to read all those amazingly complex letter. To design such meal a tactical genius required. -- Canaan Surfing Ltd. Internet Service Providers Ben-Nes Michael - Manager Tel: 972-6-6925757 Fax: 972-6-6925858 http://www.canaan.co.il -- = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Organizing a Linux Dinner
i am all for resturant... why go to all that truble ? the bottom line will be that people wont arrive on time and will come empty-handed.. going to a resturant is the optimal solution for us all.. but that is just my opinion. --- _|_|_ Best Regard's , ( ) * Amir Tal, /v\ / System Administrator /( )XIntercomp Ltd. (m_m) | |ICQ : 15748705 | (_)_ __ Office : 09-9526993. | | | '_ \| | | \ \/ / | | | | | | |_| | |_)_|_|_| |_|__,_/_/\ visit us at www.legacy2web.com. --- On Tue, 22 Aug 2000, Chen Shapira wrote: Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 11:15:11 +0200 From: Chen Shapira [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Nadav Har'El' [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Organizing a Linux Dinner 3. Have a weekday evening bonfire/barbique/whatever, everybody brings their own kosher food or pork with cheese. (but this is complicated because we need to find a place and wood). Since I like this idea so much, I'll get practical: Wood is difficult. But barbeque is easy - I saw the equipment sold for less than 30 NIS. Lets just assume I take care of that. Place is pretty easy - select a beach, somewhere between tel-aviv and herzelia. Time? I'd say thursday evening, around 20:00? 21:00? Food? How about - each bring his own meat, and some people bring pita, salads and drinks for everyone? A picnic requires some non-trivial amount of work in organization and preperation, I'm pretty upset that no one is willing to be flexible enough to agree on a resturant and prevent this work. Chen Shapira. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [RELIGIOUS OFFTOPIC] Re: Organizing a Linux Dinner
Ladies and Gentlemen! I've learned so much about the kashrut rules last few days, much more than about linux for last year. Yom Kippur vs Shabbat is the new aspect of the problem that promises to be killy interesting :-)) Ready to read, Alex Poretski, Linux Support, Comsoft = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [RELIGIOUS OFFTOPIC] Re: Organizing a Linux Dinner
OZ The real issue is not Shabbat/non-Shabbat, but Yom Kippur vs. Shabbat vs. OZ non-Shabbat. Now that you said that I know at least two people that would insist on doing it on Yom Kippur because doing it any other day hurts their feelings... OZ There is no IGLU cabal. All former cabal members had been stoned due to Which meaning of "stoned" are you using here? -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] \/ There shall be counsels taken Stanislav Malyshev /\ Stronger than Morgul-spells phone +972-3-9316425/\ JRRT LotR. http://sharat.co.il/frodo/ whois:!SM8333 = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [RELIGIOUS OFFTOPIC] Re: Organizing a Linux Dinner
Hello Frodo, On Tue, 22 Aug 2000, Stanislav Malyshev a.k.a Frodo wrote: OZ The real issue is not Shabbat/non-Shabbat, but Yom Kippur vs. Shabbat vs. OZ non-Shabbat. Now that you said that I know at least two people that would insist on doing it on Yom Kippur because doing it any other day hurts their feelings... Of course, I was joking. The situation is getting ridiculous. We become similar to the situation of Jews who need at least 3 synagogues at their communities, so that they'll have a synagogue to boycott. OZ There is no IGLU cabal. All former cabal members had been stoned due to Which meaning of "stoned" are you using here? Here, "stoned" means "have stones thrown at you". --- Omer There is no IGLU cabal. Some former cabal members declared that the air breathed by other cabal members ceases to be kosher for their religiously sensitive noses, so the cabal no longer could hold face to face meetings, so it was dissolved. WARNING TO SPAMMERS: at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Organizing a Linux Dinner
On Mon, 21 Aug 2000, Schlomo Schapiro wrote: Hi, first I would like to recommend Shlomi fot his noble act of trying to organize a dinner. I tried myself once and failed :-( Anyway, as a possible solution to all the food conflicts I again suggest my original idea: Let us make a Linux picknick. The organizers organize the fire and everybody can bring their own food (kosher, veggie or piggy, or even boiled egg...) and drink (I suppose the drink could be organized for all). It would safe a lot of money (for NIS 70 you get enough at any super market) and could be much more fun. That sounds wonderful! -- Moshe Zadka [EMAIL PROTECTED] There is no IGLU cabal. http://advogato.org/person/moshez = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Organizing a Linux Dinner
At the risk of being sucked into this flame war, I'll put in my two cents. I do not hold with "davka" people. I don't think eating only non-kosher food is a healthy thing for your soul. I also happen to think that when a large group containing also people that cannot eat non-kosher is assembled, making sure that the food is kosher is basic politness, and cannot be waved. I can understand MosheZ on one point - this point is something called "consumer boycott". Basically - I see a behaviour that I deem wrong. I understand that this behaviour comes (like everything else) from financial reasons (i.e. - the fear of all the people that will not buy from me if I don't keep it kosher makes me go and make it kosher). I say "fine, I'll create a counter pressure group", and I boycott places that have a kosher certificate. Not because I have anything against kosher, or those places. Just because I want those places to understand that they have something to lose by doing what I see as giving in to blackmail (the fact that a place is open on Sabbath, for instance, bears no relation whats'oever to the question of whether the food is kosher. I have checked that with authorized people). Three points I would like made clear at this stage: A. This is not a consumer boycott I personally apply, just one I can understand. B. I don't think this applies in any way to a case in which the decision is made for a large group of people, especially if it is known that this group contains people who cannot eat non-kosher. C. I understand that even MosheZ doesn't claim that the place should be non-kosher, just that he will not attend under those circumstances. I am sure we can all grow to appretiate MosheZ insistance on the matter he believes in, but not change our decision as a result. Just my ~8 agorout worth Shachar Gavrie Philipson wrote: Moshe Zadka wrote: On Mon, 21 Aug 2000, Gavrie Philipson wrote: Hmm... and what are your criteria for it "being kosher"? Is a certificate from the Rabbanut enough for you not to come Yes. I don't want a place with a certificate. (In fact, a place with the conservative certificate is fine by me -- I just don't want a place with a Rbbanut certificate) Of course: The desire by some people to see a certificate that assures them the food meets certain rules is discriminatory and politically incorrect. But, your desire to eat only is a place *not* bearing such a certificate is not. It's only when *you* need to come toward the *other* side that discrimination starts. Gavrie. -- Gavrie Philipson Netmor Applied Modeling Research Ltd. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Kosher vs. Non-Kosher (was Re: Organizing a Linux Dinner)
Well, After reading the thread about the linux dinner, I might point out several points which will help to choose resturant: A. Kosher-keepers can always eat vegtables. I know you want the plate to be kosher as well, but you are advised to open the Halacha and find out that this is "Siag" that was added only in the recent years (do you really think that in the second house time, when people were poor, they held two plates sets?). B. Non-Kosher-keepers - I'm a participant in several groups which act against "Kfia Datit", and other related stuff (Hofesh, Da'at Emet, if it rings a bell). I also boyocott as much as I can Kosher products, but those who have "Badatz Stamp". If you want to boyocott Kosher stamp of the State's Rabbis, fine with me, but I think that if the only kosher stamp is from the "Rabanot Rashit" than this product is ok (though, I of course prefer it to be non kosher, as it would lower the cost of the product). The money paid for the state for Kosher stamps goes to the state, and not to attack Chilonim, "Lehaczir otam betshuva", etc. Orr Dunkelman, [EMAIL PROTECTED] "Logic is in the eye of the logician" -Gloria Steinem On Mon, 21 Aug 2000, Shachar Shemesh wrote: At the risk of being sucked into this flame war, I'll put in my two cents. I do not hold with "davka" people. I don't think eating only non-kosher food is a healthy thing for your soul. I also happen to think that when a large group containing also people that cannot eat non-kosher is assembled, making sure that the food is kosher is basic politness, and cannot be waved. I can understand MosheZ on one point - this point is something called "consumer boycott". Basically - I see a behaviour that I deem wrong. I understand that this behaviour comes (like everything else) from financial reasons (i.e. - the fear of all the people that will not buy from me if I don't keep it kosher makes me go and make it kosher). I say "fine, I'll create a counter pressure group", and I boycott places that have a kosher certificate. Not because I have anything against kosher, or those places. Just because I want those places to understand that they have something to lose by doing what I see as giving in to blackmail (the fact that a place is open on Sabbath, for instance, bears no relation whats'oever to the question of whether the food is kosher. I have checked that with authorized people). Three points I would like made clear at this stage: A. This is not a consumer boycott I personally apply, just one I can understand. B. I don't think this applies in any way to a case in which the decision is made for a large group of people, especially if it is known that this group contains people who cannot eat non-kosher. C. I understand that even MosheZ doesn't claim that the place should be non-kosher, just that he will not attend under those circumstances. I am sure we can all grow to appretiate MosheZ insistance on the matter he believes in, but not change our decision as a result. Just my ~8 agorout worth Shachar = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Kosher vs. Non-Kosher (was Re: Organizing a Linux Dinner)
- Original Message - From: "Orr Dunkelman" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, August 21, 2000 1:28 PM Subject: Kosher vs. Non-Kosher (was Re: Organizing a Linux Dinner) Well, After reading the thread about the linux dinner, I might point out several points which will help to choose resturant: A. Kosher-keepers can always eat vegtables. I know you want the plate to be kosher as well, but you are advised to open the Halacha and find out that this is "Siag" that was added only in the recent years (do you really think that in the second house time, when people were poor, they held two plates sets?). Well, IANAR (I'm not a Rabbi). Are you one? However, the mere deed of sitting and eating in a non-kosher restaurant is Halachically forbidden, because of something called "Mar'it Ayin": If someone sees an observant Jew eating in a non-kosher place, he may think that the place is kosher and eat there too. Therefore, your point is moot. Gavrie. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Kosher vs. Non-Kosher (was Re: Organizing a Linux Dinner)
A rabbi was walking home from the Temple and saw one of his good friends, a pious and learned man who could usually beat the rabbi in an argument. The rabbi started walking faster so that he could catch up to his friend when he was horrified to see his friend go into a Chinese restaurant (not a kosher one). Standing at the door he observed his friend talking to a waiter and gesturing at a menu. A short time later, the waiter reappeared carrying a platter full of spare ribs, shrimp in lobster sauce, crab rangoon and other treif (non kosher food) that the rabbi could not bear to think about them. As his friend picked up the chopsticks and began to eat this food, the rabbi burst into the restaurant and reproached his friend for he could take it no longer. "Morris, what is this you are doing? I saw you come into this restaurant, order this filth and now you are eating it in violation of everything we are taught about the dietary laws and with an apparent enjoyment that does not befit your pious reputation!" Morris replied, "Rabbi, did you see me enter this restaurant? (rabbi nods yes). Did you see me order this meal? (again he nods yes). Did you see the waiter bring me this food? (again he nods yes). And did you see me eat it? (nods yes). Then, rabbi, I don't see the problem here. The entire thing was done under rabbinical supervision!" And "Marit Eyen" afaik, is again a "siag". But again, I pointed out two things (and I'm not a rabbi, but some of the things I do is to learn Halacha, and I do know rabbi to ask him). Orr Dunkelman, [EMAIL PROTECTED] "Logic is in the eye of the logician" -Gloria Steinem On Mon, 21 Aug 2000, Gavrie Philipson wrote: - Original Message - From: "Orr Dunkelman" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, August 21, 2000 1:28 PM Subject: Kosher vs. Non-Kosher (was Re: Organizing a Linux Dinner) Well, After reading the thread about the linux dinner, I might point out several points which will help to choose resturant: A. Kosher-keepers can always eat vegtables. I know you want the plate to be kosher as well, but you are advised to open the Halacha and find out that this is "Siag" that was added only in the recent years (do you really think that in the second house time, when people were poor, they held two plates sets?). Well, IANAR (I'm not a Rabbi). Are you one? However, the mere deed of sitting and eating in a non-kosher restaurant is Halachically forbidden, because of something called "Mar'it Ayin": If someone sees an observant Jew eating in a non-kosher place, he may think that the place is kosher and eat there too. Therefore, your point is moot. Gavrie. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Kosher vs. Non-Kosher (was Re: Organizing a Linux Dinner)
And even doing things for appearances sake ("Mar'it Ayin") is not so clear
cut. If you do something for "Mar'it Ayin", then it is a legitimate
argument, by some orthodox people as well, that it were better had you not
observed the rule at all.
Now personally, when dining in a group some of which eats kosher, I'd
prefer a kosher place, and being vegeterian, some vegeterian selection is
necessary. It is more common to find vegeterian selections which are
certainly vegeterian in kosher places (although I have been offered fish
in kosher places a few times when I asked about the vegerian selection -
I usually reply that while I'm sure the fish was vegeterian when he was
alive...)
Thanks,
Uri
On Mon, 21 Aug 2000, Gavrie Philipson wrote:
- Original Message -
From: "Orr Dunkelman" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, August 21, 2000 1:28 PM
Subject: Kosher vs. Non-Kosher (was Re: Organizing a Linux Dinner)
Well, After reading the thread about the linux dinner, I might point out
several points which will help to choose resturant:
A. Kosher-keepers can always eat vegtables. I know you want the plate to
be kosher as well, but you are advised to open the Halacha and find out
that this is "Siag" that was added only in the recent years (do you really
think that in the second house time, when people were poor, they held two
plates sets?).
Well, IANAR (I'm not a Rabbi). Are you one? However, the mere deed of
sitting and eating in a non-kosher restaurant is Halachically forbidden,
because of something called "Mar'it Ayin": If someone sees an observant Jew
eating in a non-kosher place, he may think that the place is kosher and eat
there too. Therefore, your point is moot.
Gavrie.
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Re: Kosher vs. Non-Kosher (was Re: Organizing a Linux Dinner)
So is this thread. Take it to the streets and parliment, where it belongs. I vote for a picnic. Matti At 01:40 PM 21/8/00 +0300, gavrie frothed wrote: Therefore, your point is moot. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Organizing a Linux Dinner
Sorry to be that late in this discussion but I also won't come it it's not Kosher. Arie Haenel IT Engineer - IPD Line NDS Technologies Israel Ltd. -Original Message- From: Moshe Zadka [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Sunday, 20 August, 2000 12:32 To: Shlomi Fish Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Organizing a Linux Dinner On Sun, 20 Aug 2000, Shlomi Fish wrote: Please send your suggestions for the restaurant to this list. The requirements for the restaurant are: 1. Being Kosher. Why Kosher? How many people will not come if it's not Kosher? = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Organizing a Linux Dinner
This must be the stupidest way of thought I've seen. It shows you are not even +AF8-trying+AF8- to hear an opinion different than yours, even if it's logical. Why is the idea of people +ACo-not+ACo- going into a restaurant because they serve meat and also coffee with milk seem FINE to you, while on the other hand the objection of going to a restaurant that +ACo-refuses+ACo- to serve coffee with milk seems okay?+ACE- And about asking 'when does a restaurant stop being kosher', common - I hope you were just asking for the sake of the argument, because if you were serious it shows a lot about your ability to understand complex logical sentences (and if this is the case, just delete this e-mail and get on with your life. You're going to miss most of the ideas I try to express here). If religious people have strict and coherent rules which tell them which restaurants they will or will not eat in, what makes it difficult for you to understand that some non-religious people have similar rules too? I, for one, will +AF8-not+AF8- eat in a +AF8-kosher+AF8- McDonalds. Never. No matter how hungry I am, or how much I like McDonalds. I will try to avoid going into a kosher restaurant altogether if I have a choice. Other people have other rules (see http://www.hofesh.org.il for some other examples) some are much stricter than I am. Just a few words about this 'religious' war. Notice that neither Moshe nor I said anything bad about the religious people's freedom to choose their restaurants. On the other hand, a large group tried to condemn Moshe for doing this exact same thing. Man, this country needs a HUKA... - Aviram - Original Message - From: +ACI-Gavrie Philipson+ACI- +ADw-gavrie+AEA-netmor.com+AD4- To: +ACI-Moshe Zadka+ACI- +ADw-moshez+AEA-math.huji.ac.il+AD4- Cc: +ADw-linux-il+AEA-linux.org.il+AD4- Sent: Monday, August 21, 2000 7:50 AM Subject: Re: Organizing a Linux Dinner +AD4- Moshe Zadka wrote: +AD4- +AD4- +AD4- +AD4- On Sun, 20 Aug 2000, Nadav Har'El wrote: +AD4- +AD4- +AD4- +AD4- +AD4- (i.e., the dinner will probably be kosher +AD4- +AD4- +AD4- after all, whether MosheZ likes it or not). +AD4- +AD4- +AD4- +AD4- It's not a matter of +ACI-liking+ACI-, it's a matter of being there. +You're free +AD4- +AD4- to have the dinner wherever you want -- I won't be there if it's Kosher. +AD4- +AD4- I'm sorry I didn't make it clearer sooner. +AD4- +AD4- Hmm... and what are your criteria for it +ACI-being kosher+ACI-? +AD4- Is a certificate from the Rabbanut enough for you not to come, or must +AD4- the food itself be non-kosher? Is kosher meat acceptable, as long as +AD4- it's served with cheese? Does the act of adding the cheese render the +AD4- meal acceptable to you, which otherwise it wouldn't be? +AD4- And, as one of the criteria was the option of vegetarian meals -- are +AD4- you going to order special, genetically-engineered non-kosher +AD4- vegetables, maybe produced by adding pig genes to vegetables? +AD4- +AD4- Grow up+ACE- +AD4- +AD4- Gavrie. +AD4- +AD4- -- +AD4- Gavrie Philipson +AD4- Netmor Applied Modeling Research Ltd. +AD4- +AD4- ++AD0APQA9AD0APQA9AD0APQA9AD0APQA9AD0APQA9AD0APQA9AD0APQA9AD0APQA9AD0APQA9AD0APQA9AD0APQA9AD0APQA9AD0APQA9AD0APQA9AD0APQA9AD0APQA9AD0APQA9AD0APQA9AD0APQA9AD0APQA9AD0APQA9AD0APQ- +AD4- To unsubscribe, send mail to linux-il-request+AEA-linux.org.il with +AD4- the word +ACI-unsubscribe+ACI- in the message body, e.g., run the command +AD4- echo unsubscribe +AHw- mail linux-il-request+AEA-linux.org.il +AD4- +AD4- = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Organizing a Linux Dinner
Aviram,
First, use a standards-compliant mailer (such as something
non-Microsoft) -- especially on a Linux mailing list. Your quotation
marks are quite wacky.
Aviram Jenik wrote:
This must be the stupidest way of thought I've seen. It shows you are not
even +AF8-trying+AF8- to hear an opinion different than yours, even if it's logical.
Why is the idea of people +ACo-not+ACo- going into a restaurant because they serve
meat and also coffee with milk seem FINE to you, while on the other hand the
objection of going to a restaurant that +ACo-refuses+ACo- to serve coffee with milk
seems okay?+ACE-
And about asking 'when does a restaurant stop being kosher', common - I hope
you were just asking for the sake of the argument, because if you were
serious it shows a lot about your ability to understand complex logical
sentences (and if this is the case, just delete this e-mail and get on with
your life. You're going to miss most of the ideas I try to express here).
Well, of course deeming anyone who thinks different than you as
"illogical" is a very mature and logical act by itself.
The people who don't go into a restaurant serving meatmilk do so for a
reason (whether logical or not). The person who doesn't go into a
restaurant _refusing_ to serve meatmilk does so just out of spite. Or
do you want to tell me that you never eat a meal at home in which meat
and milk are not mixed? In that case I stand corrected.
If religious people have strict and coherent rules which tell them which
restaurants they will or will not eat in, what makes it difficult for you to
understand that some non-religious people have similar rules too?
I, for one, will +AF8-not+AF8- eat in a +AF8-kosher+AF8- McDonalds. Never. No matter
how
hungry I am, or how much I like McDonalds.
Neither will I. Never. A company that serves non-kosher food just for
the purpose of it isn't going to see any revenue from me. So, at least
we agree on something ;-)
I will try to avoid going into a
kosher restaurant altogether if I have a choice. Other people have other
rules (see http://www.hofesh.org.il for some other examples) some are much
stricter than I am.
Just a few words about this 'religious' war. Notice that neither Moshe nor I
said anything bad about the religious people's freedom to choose their
restaurants. On the other hand, a large group tried to condemn Moshe for
doing this exact same thing. Man, this country needs a HUKA...
I think the point of disagreement is very simple: Religious people
follow specific rules for a *reason* (whether good or not is not the
issue).
Trying to create an artificial "Anti-religion" -- just to do the
opposite of what religous people do -- out of principle ("davka") is
something different altogether.
Anyway, let's move this discussion to some other place.
Gavrie.
--
Gavrie Philipson
Netmor Applied Modeling Research Ltd.
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Re: Kosher vs. Non-Kosher (was Re: Organizing a Linux Dinner)
Matti Picus [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: So is this thread. Take it to the streets and parliment, where it belongs. Or, at the very least, take it to IGLU. Linux-il is supposed to be a technical list, not the one for discussing community activities. Even RedHat/Debian, Emacs/vi, awk/perl, lisp/forth, and Hungarian vs. Reverse Polish religious wars are considered off-topic here. -- Oleg Goldshmidt [EMAIL PROTECTED] "... We work by wit, and not by witchcraft; And wit depends on dilatory time." [Shakespeare] = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Organizing a Linux Dinner
OD I'm terribly sorry I had to interfer. I do not see why the code of OD behivour of religious people is less "davka" than of a secular person. I Because you and you comerades raiser a flamewar on the list (well, it really was a flamefest, since observant people just said one short phrase each), while observans just said about their limitations. I, personally, now sure I won't be there. No, kosher is not much of a problem for me (though I try to eat kosher when possible). Lack of respect *is* a problem for me. When people disrespect their fellows and even don't hestitate to publicize and argue it - it don't want be there. Ok, enough with offtopic. Dixi. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] \/ There shall be counsels taken Stanislav Malyshev /\ Stronger than Morgul-spells phone +972-3-9316425/\ JRRT LotR. http://sharat.co.il/frodo/ whois:!SM8333 = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Organizing a Linux Dinner
I'd like to organize a Linux Dinner some time soon. I myself am quite flexible with the date, but I think we should determine the restaurant first, and then see when it can host us. Please send your suggestions for the restaurant to this list. The requirements for the restaurant are: 1. Being Kosher. 2. Being in the Tel-Aviv area. 3. Serving Vegetarian Food. 4. Affordable. A two course meal should cost 70 NIS or less. I will collect the suggestions and then summarize them and let the list determine the restuarant. Regards, Shlomi Fish -- Shlomi Fish[EMAIL PROTECTED] Home E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/ I don't believe in fairies. Oops! A fairy died. I don't believe in fairies. Oops! Another fairy died. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Organizing a Linux Dinner
Lets make it a celebration for the release of Debian 2.2? still-trying-to-think-of-a-resturant-ly yours, Chen. -Original Message- From: Shlomi Fish [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2000 12:24 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Organizing a Linux Dinner I'd like to organize a Linux Dinner some time soon. I myself am quite flexible with the date, but I think we should determine the restaurant first, and then see when it can host us. Please send your suggestions for the restaurant to this list. The requirements for the restaurant are: 1. Being Kosher. 2. Being in the Tel-Aviv area. 3. Serving Vegetarian Food. 4. Affordable. A two course meal should cost 70 NIS or less. I will collect the suggestions and then summarize them and let the list determine the restuarant. Regards, Shlomi Fish -- Shlomi Fish[EMAIL PROTECTED] Home E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/ I don't believe in fairies. Oops! A fairy died. I don't believe in fairies. Oops! Another fairy died. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Organizing a Linux Dinner
On Sun, 20 Aug 2000, Shlomi Fish wrote: Please send your suggestions for the restaurant to this list. The requirements for the restaurant are: 1. Being Kosher. Why Kosher? How many people will not come if it's not Kosher? = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Organizing a Linux Dinner
shalom you don't care about kosher so it's no important for anyone . right ? very interesting good question ! i don't see the link between kosher and israeli persons help me to answer please because - Milhovitch Michael [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ # 24073604 - - Original Message - From: "Moshe Zadka" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "Shlomi Fish" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2000 11:31 AM Subject: Re: Organizing a Linux Dinner On Sun, 20 Aug 2000, Shlomi Fish wrote: Please send your suggestions for the restaurant to this list. The requirements for the restaurant are: 1. Being Kosher. Why Kosher? How many people will not come if it's not Kosher? _ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Organizing a Linux Dinner
Moshe Zadka wrote: On Sun, 20 Aug 2000, Shlomi Fish wrote: Please send your suggestions for the restaurant to this list. The requirements for the restaurant are: 1. Being Kosher. Why Kosher? How many people will not come if it's not Kosher? The Amuta will do it's best to let anyone and everyone enjoy the activities it sponsors, without regard to sex, race, creed or editor preference ;-) including people with disabilities. Geoff. -- Geoffrey S. Mendelson Tel: (03) 6944-211 Fax: (03) 6944-225 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Organizing a Linux Dinner
On Sun, 20 Aug 2000, Michael M. wrote: shalom you don't care about kosher so it's no important for anyone . right ? Wrong. I care about kosher very much -- I do not eat in kosher restaurants if I have other choices. You don't eat in non-kosher restaurants -- fine. We can organize two dinners...that's up to the organizers to decide. PS Please learn to quote. And no, I do not care that you're using crappy MUAs. -- Moshe Zadka [EMAIL PROTECTED] There is no IGLU cabal. http://advogato.org/person/moshez = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Organizing a Linux Dinner
On Sun, 20 Aug 2000, Moshe Zadka wrote:
On Sun, 20 Aug 2000, Shlomi Fish wrote:
Please send your suggestions for the restaurant to this list. The
requirements for the restaurant are:
1. Being Kosher.
Why Kosher? How many people will not come if it's not Kosher?
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I wont.
- yba
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Re: Organizing a Linux Dinner
On Sun, Aug 20, 2000, Moshe Zadka wrote about "Re: Organizing a Linux Dinner": On Sun, 20 Aug 2000, Michael M. wrote: shalom you don't care about kosher so it's no important for anyone . right ? Wrong. I care about kosher very much -- I do not eat in kosher restaurants if I have other choices. You don't eat in non-kosher restaurants -- fine. We can organize two dinners...that's up to the organizers to decide. Looks like the start of another annoying flame-war :( Anyway, personally I also don't care about the Kosher-ness of the restaurant, but if it means a few more people will be able to come, than I don't mind if the restaurant will be Kosher. I realise this will give us fewer restaurants to choose from, and potentially we'll end up with a not-the-best-possible restaurant, but if our objective is to meet and have a good time, and not explicitly to have a gourmet dinner, then it's acceptable. That is, of course, unless someone is looking for a specific type of Kashrut, and a restaurant that is not open on Saturday, which can seriously limit the possibilities - maybe someone who cares about Kashrut should suggest a restaurant he or she is comfortable with (but remember the vegiterianism request too!). -- Nadav Har'El| Sunday, Aug 20 2000, 19 Av 5760 [EMAIL PROTECTED] |- Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |A messy desk is a sign of a messy mind. http://nadav.harel.org.il |An empty desk is a sign of an empty mind. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Organizing a Linux Dinner
On Sun, 20 Aug 2000, Moshe Zadka wrote: On Sun, 20 Aug 2000, Shlomi Fish wrote: Please send your suggestions for the restaurant to this list. The requirements for the restaurant are: 1. Being Kosher. Why Kosher? How many people will not come if it's not Kosher? It should be Kosher because several people,including me,are religious and are limited to Kosher restaurants. Israel is a democracy and freedom of faith is instituted in this democratic state. A religious Jew _can't_ eat in a non-Kosher place. A non-religious Jew can eat in Kosher restaurant. If the dinner wasn't Kosher, then a fraction of Linux people would be blacked balled from this event which I understand is an official IGLU event. Cordially Joshua Kamenetz 053-224874 Naharia Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Organizing a Linux Dinner
On Sun, Aug 20, 2000, joshua kamenetz wrote about "Re: Organizing a Linux Dinner": Why Kosher? How many people will not come if it's not Kosher? It should be Kosher because several people,including me,are religious and are limited to Kosher restaurants. Israel is a democracy and freedom of faith is instituted in this democratic state. A religious Jew _can't_ eat in a non-Kosher place. A non-religious Jew can eat in Kosher restaurant. If the dinner wasn't Kosher, then a fraction of Linux people would be blacked balled from this event which I understand is an official IGLU event. I don't think high words like "democracy" and "freedom of faith" are relevant in this case. You're free to come to a non-kosher dinner, and watch other people eat, or bring your own sandwiches (and plate) from home. Obviously, it wouldn't be *nice* of us to let you do that, which is why we're not going to do it (i.e., the dinner will probably be kosher after all, whether MosheZ likes it or not). We're going to have a Kosher dinner because we care about the religious people in our group and respect them - not because we care about their religion (or the religion varient they choose to practice). But don't act like it's some sort of democratic or freedom-of-faith issue that we have to have Kosher food: try going to any conference in the U.S. (for example). You'll be given food, and they may even try to make it pseudo-kosher (e.g., serve beef, not pork, don't put cream on the beef, make vegetables and other stuff that don't have such strict kashrut code, etc.), but you won't get a glat-kosher meal. They will outright laugh if you request to eat only in a place which is closed on Saturday. But they will give you the option to eat somewhere else, bring your own food, or eat nothing at all. Some orthodox Jews do not drink wine if it was served by a gentile (goy). But it doesn't mean they have the right to force the restaurant to employ a Jewish wine-server. At the most, they can decide not to drink wine if served by a gentile. Freedom of faith is the freedom to practice your own faith without being disturbed or persecuted. It is not the freedom to force your own faith on others, or the freedom to say that "my faith requires me to make others behave like me". -- Nadav Har'El| Sunday, Aug 20 2000, 20 Av 5760 [EMAIL PROTECTED] |- Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |A professor is one who talks in someone http://nadav.harel.org.il |else's sleep. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Organizing a Linux Dinner
Hi there! Now the idea became OFFTOPIC, coz nobody talk about the Linux Meeting but about Kashrut. I wanted to add my personal opinion about it but I decided not to do it. ;-))) -- |^| |^| | |/\| | | Boltyansky Boris.. | | |\/| | | |/\| | | IGLU - Israeli Group of LiNUX Users. | |http://www.iglu.org.il| | |\/| | |_| |_| = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Organizing a Linux Dinner
MZ I'm happy you agree my preferences not to eat kosher should be respected. This reminds me a history about two hilonim. One says to the second: "I go to the restaurant N this evening" - "But this is a glatt kosher restaurant!" - "Doesn't matter, I will eat only boiled eggs". Sorry for the offtopic. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] \/ There shall be counsels taken Stanislav Malyshev /\ Stronger than Morgul-spells phone +972-3-9316425/\ JRRT LotR. http://sharat.co.il/frodo/ whois:!SM8333 = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Organizing a Linux Dinner
Hi, first I would like to recommend Shlomi fot his noble act of trying to organize a dinner. I tried myself once and failed :-( Anyway, as a possible solution to all the food conflicts I again suggest my original idea: Let us make a Linux picknick. The organizers organize the fire and everybody can bring their own food (kosher, veggie or piggy, or even boiled egg...) and drink (I suppose the drink could be organized for all). It would safe a lot of money (for NIS 70 you get enough at any super market) and could be much more fun. For those with family it would be also better since they could bring them along and we would have a big picknick with a Linux corner. Please think about this option, I think it could help us all. Schlomo PS: I once tried to organize it (look at the archives) and will be happy to help again with this. Sincerely, Schlomo Schapiro --- email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] WWW: http://www.schapiro.org On Sun, 20 Aug 2000, Shlomi Fish wrote: I'd like to organize a Linux Dinner some time soon. I myself am quite flexible with the date, but I think we should determine the restaurant first, and then see when it can host us. Please send your suggestions for the restaurant to this list. The requirements for the restaurant are: 1. Being Kosher. 2. Being in the Tel-Aviv area. 3. Serving Vegetarian Food. 4. Affordable. A two course meal should cost 70 NIS or less. I will collect the suggestions and then summarize them and let the list determine the restuarant. Regards, Shlomi Fish -- Shlomi Fish [EMAIL PROTECTED] Home E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/ I don't believe in fairies. Oops! A fairy died. I don't believe in fairies. Oops! Another fairy died. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Organizing a Linux Dinner
Moshe Zadka wrote: On Sun, 20 Aug 2000, Nadav Har'El wrote: (i.e., the dinner will probably be kosher after all, whether MosheZ likes it or not). It's not a matter of "liking", it's a matter of being there. You're free to have the dinner wherever you want -- I won't be there if it's Kosher. I'm sorry I didn't make it clearer sooner. Hmm... and what are your criteria for it "being kosher"? Is a certificate from the Rabbanut enough for you not to come, or must the food itself be non-kosher? Is kosher meat acceptable, as long as it's served with cheese? Does the act of adding the cheese render the meal acceptable to you, which otherwise it wouldn't be? And, as one of the criteria was the option of vegetarian meals -- are you going to order special, genetically-engineered non-kosher vegetables, maybe produced by adding pig genes to vegetables? Grow up! Gavrie. -- Gavrie Philipson Netmor Applied Modeling Research Ltd. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
