[LUTE] Re: My playing
On Dec 3, 2011, at 4:10 AM, Konstantin Shchenikov wrote: My friends and me have played a concert. Here is songs by John Dowland: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcleEbnXqCM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycL4JaKHY6s http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1AB54nH3Zac What do you think about it? Articulation of singer is not too foreign? It sounds heavily accented, but he's remarkably clear, and more understandable than some native English speakers I've heard in Dowland. The actual mispronunciations can be a problem. He gets the h in come heavy sleep right, but sings Shark you spirits that in shadows dwell and Happy, happy they that in shell feel not the world's despite (tongue too high). Whether he wants to work on the vowels depends on whether he plans to sing to English-speaking audiences, I suppose. I don't know what to tell him about voiced and unvoiced sibilants. English spelling/pronunciation went insane in 1066 and has never made sense since. And here is suite by de Visee (Pavel Filchenko - viola d'amour and my continuo) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1IKn-Kg4e0 it's my second experience of continuo playing. On the whole, it's quite good. It sounds like your right hand got more comfortable as it went on. Some mistakes (and some good recoveries), obviously. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: My playing
Hi, all, I'm not a scholar of these things, but here are my 2 cents (pfennigs?) Many years ago I performed a Senfl piece that had the refrain, Ich cum, ich cum, ich cum! (can't remember the rest of the text), and our Bavarian tenor assured us that it had a sexual connotation. Perhaps the term drifted over from Germany, like so many other things (allegedly)? Another knowledgeable musician, coaching us, commented on the salaciousness of the text saying, This is what the estate of Ludwig Senfl tried to suppress. Keep playing everyone, Chris. On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 4:22 PM, Andreas Schroth [1]andreasschr...@gmx.net wrote: Am 13.06.2011 22:05, schrieb howard posner: Then off he came, blusht for shame soe soone that he had endit. The Reliques of Ancient English Poetry set the stage not only for Robert Burns, but also for Wordsworth and Coleridge's Lyrical Ballads. The book is based on an old manuscript collection of poetry, which Percy claimed to have rescued in Humphrey Pitt's house at Shifnal, Shropshire, from the hands of the housemaid who was about to light the fire with it. The manuscript was edited in its complete form by JW Hales and FJ Furnivall in 1867-1868. This manuscript provides the core of the work but many other ballads were found and included, some by Percy's friends Johnson, William Shenstone, Thomas Warton, and some from a similar collection made by Samuel Pepys. Percy improved 35 of the 46 ballads he took from the Folio. In the case of The Beggar's daughter of Bednal Green (Bethnal Green), he added the historical character of Simon de Montfort, Earl of Evesham. In this version the ballad became so popular that it was used in two plays, an anonymous novel, operas by Thomas Arne and Geoffrey Bush, and Carl Loewe's ballad Der Bettlers Tochter von Bednall Green. A fuller account of the history of the ballad can be found in The Green' by A. J. Robinson and D. H. B. Chesshyre. (from wikipedia.en) To get on or off this list see list information at [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:andreasschr...@gmx.net 2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: My playing
On Jun 8, 2011, at 6:36 AM, Catherine Arnott Smith wrote: Re: come in the sense of orgasm: One of my research areas is the use of obscenity to describe health concepts, so I happen to have encountered this question before. The OED Third dates this usage to before 1650 and Partridge's Dictionary of Slang and Unconventional English to 1600. I'm surprised by this, obviously, and I don't have an OED 3 or Partridge handy and won't get a chance to look at either any time soon. What examples do they give? I went electronically searching texts of Restoration comedies (noted for their loose view of sexual mores) for come and die, and had no trouble turning up sexual meanings for die and no luck finding any for come. For example, Wycherley's 1675 play The Country Wife, surely the crassest piece of sexploitation in the Restoration canon, come shows up more than a hundred times, with no sexual connotation that I can detect, while die appears only in this line, its sexual meaning obvious: And now, Madam, let me tell you plainly, no body else shall marry you by Heavens, I'll die first, for I'm sure I shou'd die after it. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: My playing
The digital OED 3rd, however, gives this as meaning # 17, To experience sexual orgasm. Also with off. slang. and cites a1650Walking in Meadow Green in Bp. Percy's Loose Songs (1868) , Then off he came, blusht for shame soe soone that he had endit. [A1650 means the usage predates 1650] This made me want to go and look for Bishop Percy's Loose Songs, which based on the title alone sounds like a lot of fun. I wonder if it's Thomas Percy, Bishop of Dromore and onetime chaplain to George III, collector of Percy's Reliques of Ancient English Poetry. He died in 1811, but a book like that can go through a few editions... A quick web search for Percy's Loose Songs turned up nothing but the OED cite above. But I did find the actual song, by searching the title, at: http://books.google.com/books?id=wns4IAAJpg=PA102lpg=PA102dq=%22Walking+in+a+Meadow+Green%22source=blots=edhEr4gOTSsig=ORjKQg4fovMoq5n662cF8cXabaQhl=enei=gGT2TeDGCIrCsAPI-8GyCwsa=Xoi=book_resultct=resultresnum=9sqi=2ved=0CEIQ6AEwCA#v=onepageq=%22Walking%20in%20a%20Meadow%20Green%22f=false and unless I much misread the second verse, the reference, far from describing ejaculation, appears to mean literally getting off the maiden after an unsuccessful attempt to deflower her. I've typed it as it appears in Poetica Erotica, p. 102-103, with inconsistent spelling and capitalization: Walking in a meadow greene, fayre flowers for to gather, where primrose rankes did stand on bankes to welcome comers thither, I heard a voice which made a Noise, which caused me to attend it, I heard a lasse say to a Ladd, Once more, none can mend it. They lay soe close together, they made me much to wonder I knew not which was wether until I saw her under. Then off her came, blusht for shame soe soone that he had endit Yet still she lyes, to him cries, Once more, none can mend it. His lookes were dull and very sad, his courage she had tamed; she bade him play the lusty lad or else he quite was shamed; then stiffly thrust, he hit me just, fear not, but freely spend it, play about at in out; once more, none can mend it. And then he thought to venter her, thinking the fit was on him; but when he came to enter her, the point turned back upon him. Yet she said, stay! go not away although the point be bended! but toot again, hit the vaine once more, none can Mend it. Then in her Armes she did him fold oftentimes she kist him, yet still his courage was but cold for all the good she wisht him; yet with her hand she made it stand so stiff she could not bend it, then anon she cries come on once more, none can mend it! Adieu, adieu, sweet heart, quoth he, for in faith I must be gone. nay, then you do me wrong, quoth she, to leave me thus alone. Away he went when all was spent, whereat she was offended; Like a Trojan true she made a vow she would have one should mend it. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: My playing
I don't have an OED 3 or Partridge handy OED has been deat with and gives a contemporary quote. Partridge does not, he gives 'come' as 'To experience the sexual spasm': low coll: C.19-20. Considered coarse, but it was orig. a euphemism and, in C.20, how, if the fact is to be expressed non-euphemistically, could one express it otherwise with such terse simplicity? As you can see, the book advertises itself; sheer delight! Partridge also wrote a book on interpunction, aptly entitled: 'You have a point there', a pure pleasure to read. Order it as well. More to the point. In Dowland, shouldn't we look to Italian examples like Ancor che col partire? David -- *** David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com www.davidvanooijen.nl *** To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: My playing
On 6/13/2011 12:08 PM, howard posner wrote: On Jun 8, 2011, at 6:36 AM, Catherine Arnott Smith wrote: Re: come in the sense of orgasm: One of my research areas is the use of obscen ity to describe health concepts, so I happen to have encountered this question b efore. The OED Third dates this usage to before 1650 and Partridge's Dictionar y of Slang and Unconventional English to 1600. I'm surprised by this, obviously, and I don't have an OED 3 or Partridge handy a nd won't get a chance to look at either any time soon. What examples do they gi ve? My university hasn't got a digital Partridge (haven't checked to see if there IS a digital Partridge, actually) but I can check that in print later and report back-- Partridge really is the authority for slang, which is the category under which obscenity usually falls. The digital OED 3rd, however, gives this as meaning # 17, To experience sexual orgasm. Also with off. slang. and cites a1650Walking in Meadow Green in Bp. Percy's Loose Songs (1868) , Then off he came, blusht for shame soe soone that he had endit. [A1650 means the usage predates 1650] This made me want to go and look for Bishop Percy's Loose Songs, which based on the title alone sounds like a lot of fun. -- Catherine Arnott Smith, PhD Assistant Professor School of Library and Information Studies Room 4255 Helen C. White Hall 600 N. Park Street, Madison, WI 53706 Phone: (608) 890-1334 Fax: (608) 263-4849 My personal website: [1]https://mywebspace.wisc.edu/casmith24/web/ *** The machine does not isolate us from the great problems of nature but plunges us more deeply into them.(Antoine de Saint-Exupery) *** Music is neither old nor modern: it is either good or bad music, and the date at which it was written has no significance whatever. (Peter Warlock - The Sackbut - 1926) -- References 1. https://mywebspace.wisc.edu/casmith24/web/ To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: My playing
Am 13.06.2011 22:05, schrieb howard posner: Then off he came, blusht for shame soe soone that he had endit. The Reliques of Ancient English Poetry set the stage not only for Robert Burns, but also for Wordsworth and Coleridge's Lyrical Ballads. The book is based on an old manuscript collection of poetry, which Percy claimed to have rescued in Humphrey Pitt's house at Shifnal, Shropshire, from the hands of the housemaid who was about to light the fire with it. The manuscript was edited in its complete form by JW Hales and FJ Furnivall in 1867-1868. This manuscript provides the core of the work but many other ballads were found and included, some by Percy's friends Johnson, William Shenstone, Thomas Warton, and some from a similar collection made by Samuel Pepys. Percy improved 35 of the 46 ballads he took from the Folio. In the case of The Beggar's daughter of Bednal Green (Bethnal Green), he added the historical character of Simon de Montfort, Earl of Evesham. In this version the ballad became so popular that it was used in two plays, an anonymous novel, operas by Thomas Arne and Geoffrey Bush, and Carl Loewe's ballad Der Bettlers Tochter von Bednall Green. A fuller account of the history of the ballad can be found in The Green' by A. J. Robinson and D. H. B. Chesshyre. (from wikipedia.en) To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: My playing
Quoting howard posner howardpos...@ca.rr.com: On Jun 7, 2011, at 4:24 PM, Stewart McCoy wrote: The words come and die have two meanings. If you're suggesting that come has an orgasm-related secondary meaning, I think you're centuries early. I'm pretty certain Dowland would not have started with Come again if he thought it meant have a second orgasm. It would make no sense in context. As far as I know, come did not acquire such a meaning until long after die ceased to be understood in a sexual sense. Do you have other information? I think that this is a debate topic that can only climax in frustration for all concerned. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: My playing
Re: come in the sense of orgasm: One of my research areas is the use of obscenity to describe health concepts, so I happen to have encountered this question before. The OED Third dates this usage to before 1650 and Partridge's Dictionary of Slang and Unconventional English to 1600. -- Catherine Arnott Smith, PhD Assistant Professor School of Library and Information Studies University of Wisconsin-Madison Employed professionally to test ideas and propose solutions, to deepen knowledge and refresh perspectives [Judge J. Harvie Wilkinson in Jefferson vs. Cuccinelli, quoted in editorial, A Shabby Crusade in Wisconsin, [New York Times, 28 Mar 2011]. Music is neither old nor modern: it is either good or bad music, and the date at which it was written has no significance whatever. (Peter Warlock - The Sackbut - 1926) Be sure you choose what you believe and know why you believe it, because if you don't choose your beliefs, you may be certain that some belief, and probably not a very creditable one, will choose you. Robertson Davies, The Manticore (London: Penguin, 1972; pp. 477-478) To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: My playing
I like the quality of your friend's voice. I think it fits this music well. He looks to be actually closer to the mic than you so he must be singing very quietly because he did not overpower. What is that mic? Is that an Octava? Very warm. On Jun 7, 2011, at 7:59 AM, D-sD- 3/4D- 1/2NN'D-DEGD- 1/2N'D-,D- 1/2 D-(c)D-uD- 1/2D-,D--oD- 3/4D-^2 wrote: Hi, all Me and my friend recorded two songs by Jonn Dowland. I will be glad to know your opinions, tips. I wait criticism)) [1]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=riT4fMWnxaQ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IlnaVfE2-7Y Konstantin Shchenikov -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Ed Durbrow Saitama, Japan [2]http://www.musicianspage.com/musicians/9688/ [3]http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/ -- References 1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=riT4fMWnxaQ 2. http://www.musicianspage.com/musicians/9688/ 3. http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/
[LUTE] Re: My playing
Thank you, Ed! Microphone Nady TCM 1050. He stood aside from the camera and we were at same distance from him. In the video, it looks as though the singer closer to the microphone. But it is not. 07.06.2011, в 18:11, Ed Durbrow написал(а): I like the quality of your friend's voice. I think it fits this music well. He looks to be actually closer to the mic than you so he must be singing very quietly because he did not overpower. What is that mic? Is that an Octava? Very warm. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: My playing
On Jun 7, 2011, at 4:24 PM, Stewart McCoy wrote: The words come and die have two meanings. If you're suggesting that come has an orgasm-related secondary meaning, I think you're centuries early. I'm pretty certain Dowland would not have started with Come again if he thought it meant have a second orgasm. It would make no sense in context. As far as I know, come did not acquire such a meaning until long after die ceased to be understood in a sexual sense. Do you have other information? To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
