Re: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman 3.0 on centos 7

[Fabian Santiago]

That's awesome. I'll check this out ASAP. Thank you for your help. 

Sincerely,

Fabian Santiago

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 29, 2015, at 10:37 AM, Aurelien Bompard  wrote:
> 
> Hey Fabian,
> 
>> Does anyone know where I can find more info on deploying mailman 3 on centos 
>> 7 aside from the standard docs site?
> 
> I'm currently packaging Mailman3 and HyperKitty + Postorius for Red
> Hat / CentOS 7. My packages are here:
> https://repos.fedorapeople.org/repos/abompard/hyperkitty/el-7/x86_64/
> and the repo file is here:
> https://repos.fedorapeople.org/repos/abompard/hyperkitty/hyperkitty-el.repo
> The repo contains all the dependencies too.
> 
> However, I'm updating the packages as I go, so they may be unstable,
> contain unreleased patches and branches, etc. The SRPMs are there so
> if you want to start with that and write your own, go ahead.
> I hope it saves you some time.
> 
> 
> Aurélien


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Re: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman 3.0 on centos 7

[Aurelien Bompard]

Hey Fabian,

> Does anyone know where I can find more info on deploying mailman 3 on centos 
> 7 aside from the standard docs site?

I'm currently packaging Mailman3 and HyperKitty + Postorius for Red
Hat / CentOS 7. My packages are here:
https://repos.fedorapeople.org/repos/abompard/hyperkitty/el-7/x86_64/
and the repo file is here:
https://repos.fedorapeople.org/repos/abompard/hyperkitty/hyperkitty-el.repo
The repo contains all the dependencies too.

However, I'm updating the packages as I go, so they may be unstable,
contain unreleased patches and branches, etc. The SRPMs are there so
if you want to start with that and write your own, go ahead.
I hope it saves you some time.


Aurélien
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[Mailman-Developers] Mailman 3.0 on centos 7

[Fabian Santiago]

Does anyone know where I can find more info on deploying mailman 3 on centos 7 
aside from the standard docs site? 

I am having some difficulty and am unfamiliar with the python virtual env stuff 
so I'm interested in any help anyone can provide. 

Thanks all. 

Sincerely,

Fabian Santiago

Sent from my iPhone

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Re: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman 3.0 + Qmail support

[Fabian Santiago]

No I am not an expert but simply an avid user. I wish I could be of more help 
and of course would in any way I can. 

--

Fabe


> On Sep 15, 2015, at 10:58 AM, Barry Warsaw  wrote:
> 
>> On Sep 15, 2015, at 01:05 AM, Fabian Santiago wrote:
>> 
>> Any plans to support Qmail along with Mailman 3.0 and above?
> 
> We'd be very happy to accept Qmail support if someone were to contribute it
> and agree to help support it for some reasonable amount of time.  It shouldn't
> be difficult.  Are you a Qmail expert and can you help out?
> 
> Cheers,
> -Barry
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Re: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman 3.0 + Qmail support

[Barry Warsaw]

On Sep 15, 2015, at 01:05 AM, Fabian Santiago wrote:

>Any plans to support Qmail along with Mailman 3.0 and above? 

We'd be very happy to accept Qmail support if someone were to contribute it
and agree to help support it for some reasonable amount of time.  It shouldn't
be difficult.  Are you a Qmail expert and can you help out?

Cheers,
-Barry
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[Mailman-Developers] Mailman 3.0 + Qmail support

[Fabian Santiago]

Hello,

Just re-posting this on the appropriate list this time;

Any plans to support Qmail along with Mailman 3.0 and above? 

--

Fabe

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Re: [Mailman-Developers] mailman 3.0 roadmap, feature-parity with mailman 2.x and documentation

[Terri Oda]

Is there a recommended server environment to run Mailman 3?

It should install and run on any *nix server that supports both Python
2.7 and Python 3.0, an MTA capable of LMTP delivery to Mailman
(currently configurations for Postfix and Exim are provided) and a web
server compatible with Django.


In addition to what Mark said: I know we've tested it on Fedora (20 and 
22, I think?) and I have a script for docker install that uses Ubuntu 
14.04 that may work for other apt-based systems.


Incidentally, if anyone's interested in doing packaging for the Mailman 
3.0 Suite pieces for some common distributions, I think that would be 
really awesome.


 Terri


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Re: [Mailman-Developers] mailman 3.0 roadmap, feature-parity with mailman 2.x and documentation

[Barry Warsaw]

On Apr 29, 2015, at 08:53 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

That's wrong. I was conflating Mailman and Python Releases. Mailman 3.0
nominally requires Python 2.7 and Python 3.4. It may run with earlier
Python 3.x releases, but no guarantees and probably not as old as 3.0 or
even 3.1 in any case.

Nobody should be using Python 3 earlier than 3.2 for *anything* :), but the
core probably will not work on Pythons earlier than 3.4.  I haven't tested it,
but I suspect we're using some newer standard library modules.

As we go forward, I hope we'll get some CI in place.  Even after Python 3.5 is
released I'd like to support 3.4 as a minimum version.

Cheers,
-Barry
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Re: [Mailman-Developers] mailman 3.0 roadmap, feature-parity with mailman 2.x and documentation

[Brian Carpenter]

 -Original Message-
 From: Mailman-Developers [mailto:mailman-developers-
 bounces+brian=emwd@python.org] On Behalf Of Barry Warsaw
 Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2015 7:03 PM
 To: mailman-developers@python.org
 Subject: Re: [Mailman-Developers] mailman 3.0 roadmap, feature-parity
 with mailman 2.x and documentation
 
 On Apr 29, 2015, at 01:17 AM, shirish wrote:
 
 We aim to release Mailman 3.0rc1 in late April, 2015. - wiki entry
 
 What would be nice is if there is some ETA as to when 3.0 will be
released to
 the general public. Are there going to be another 2-3-4 RC releases
before
 3.0 is ready ?
 
 Actually, we just released 3.0 today. :)
 
 While this is good to know, is there a matrix of features somewhere which
 shows features of mailman 2.x vs mailman 3.0 . I am unable to find such a
 page in the wiki or perhaps I didn't search enough.
 
 We don't really have this right now.  I think we'll start to fill out the
bug
 tracker with features or fixes that need to be forward ported to Mailman
3.
 Some things you won't miss, like passwords in clear text, monthly password
 reminders, having multiple accounts to manage subscriptions with different
 email addresses, no built-in archive searching, restrictions on naming
lists
 in multiple domains, etc.
 
 Lastly, the documentation for 3.0.x seems to be a good way at
 http://gnu-mailman.readthedocs.org/en/latest/ would be nicer if there
 was a
 way to generate .pdf from the content therein.
 
 You can do it from the source tree.  We build the docs with Sphinx and I
 believe it has a PDF option.  We likely won't officially distribute PDFs.
 
 Cheers,
 -Barry

Hi Barry:

Just to be clear, this is a stable fully working version of Mailman 3.0? I
tried setting up Mailman 3 on a CentOS server about 2 weeks ago and had a
number of issues including listinfo pages not working (404 errors), no clear
directions on setting up users, various bugs such as internal server errors.
The server admin that I had hired informed me there was a number of python
related bugs and he felt Mailman 3 was not ready for production use. 

I am ready to give this another try but I want to make sure that this
version will be a full working version of Mailman 3.

Thanks,
Brian

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Re: [Mailman-Developers] mailman 3.0 roadmap, feature-parity with mailman 2.x and documentation

[Brian Carpenter]

 -Original Message-
 From: Mailman-Developers [mailto:mailman-developers-
 bounces+brian=emwd@python.org] On Behalf Of Danil Smirnov
 Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2015 4:24 PM
 To: Mailman Developers
 Subject: Re: [Mailman-Developers] mailman 3.0 roadmap, feature-parity
 with mailman 2.x and documentation
 
 2015-04-29 18:03 GMT+03:00 Brian Carpenter br...@emwd.com:
  Just to be clear, this is a stable fully working version of Mailman 3.0?
I
  tried setting up Mailman 3 on a CentOS server about 2 weeks ago and had
a
  number of issues including listinfo pages not working (404 errors), no
clear
  directions on setting up users, various bugs such as internal server
errors.
  The server admin that I had hired informed me there was a number of
 python
  related bugs and he felt Mailman 3 was not ready for production use.
 
  I am ready to give this another try but I want to make sure that this
  version will be a full working version of Mailman 3.
 
 I had similar experience a week ago (after PyCon sprint) and there
 were couple bugs in the installation process on Centos 7 including
 hard one with bad virtualenv version which is still not reflected in
 the installation manual:
 https://bugs.launchpad.net/mailman/+bug/1445764/comments/19
 
 I suppose anyone who try to install Mailman on Centos 7 will face this
bug.
 
 Danil


The OS was CentOS 6.5 in my case.

Is there a recommended server environment to run Mailman 3?


Brian

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Re: [Mailman-Developers] mailman 3.0 roadmap, feature-parity with mailman 2.x and documentation

[Danil Smirnov]

2015-04-29 18:03 GMT+03:00 Brian Carpenter br...@emwd.com:
 Just to be clear, this is a stable fully working version of Mailman 3.0? I
 tried setting up Mailman 3 on a CentOS server about 2 weeks ago and had a
 number of issues including listinfo pages not working (404 errors), no clear
 directions on setting up users, various bugs such as internal server errors.
 The server admin that I had hired informed me there was a number of python
 related bugs and he felt Mailman 3 was not ready for production use.

 I am ready to give this another try but I want to make sure that this
 version will be a full working version of Mailman 3.

I had similar experience a week ago (after PyCon sprint) and there
were couple bugs in the installation process on Centos 7 including
hard one with bad virtualenv version which is still not reflected in
the installation manual:
https://bugs.launchpad.net/mailman/+bug/1445764/comments/19

I suppose anyone who try to install Mailman on Centos 7 will face this bug.

Danil
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Re: [Mailman-Developers] mailman 3.0 roadmap, feature-parity with mailman 2.x and documentation

[Mark Sapiro]

On 04/29/2015 01:26 PM, Brian Carpenter wrote:
 
 Is there a recommended server environment to run Mailman 3?


It should install and run on any *nix server that supports both Python
2.7 and Python 3.0, an MTA capable of LMTP delivery to Mailman
(currently configurations for Postfix and Exim are provided) and a web
server compatible with Django.

We haven't tested all the possible combinations, and we've admittedly
been a moving target, but things should get better and if you try and
have issues, report them to this list or the appropriate (Mailman,
Postorius or HyperKitty) bug tracker on Launchpad, and we will both try
to help you through them and fix them.

Note, during the PyCon sprints, I did test installing and running
Mailman 3 along side a running Mailman 2.1.20+ on my Ubuntu 14.10
laptop. I did have to sort out some dependencies, but it worked with the
one caveat that if you have both a Mailman 2.1 list and a Mailman 3 list
with the exact same posting address, in our recommended setup at least,
Postfix will deliver a post only to the MM 3 list.

We understand we have a way to go, and it will be 3.1 before we get a
clean, tested migration path and little or no loss of feature/function
(the MM 3 core is based on an older 2.1 version), but we need people to
start using MM 3 now, if only in limited environments, or we're never
going to find the problem areas.

plea
This is a major project and we are fewer than a dozen main contributers
to its development, and we are all volunteers who do this for our own
personal reasons, but not for money (most of us have day jobs; I'm
fortunate enough to be retired). We need your involvement to make this
successful. We welcome your help.
/plea

-- 
Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.netThe highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan
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Re: [Mailman-Developers] mailman 3.0 roadmap, feature-parity with mailman 2.x and documentation

[Brian Carpenter]

 -Original Message-
 From: Mailman-Developers [mailto:mailman-developers-
 bounces+brian=emwd@python.org] On Behalf Of Mark Sapiro
 Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2015 9:43 PM
 To: mailman-developers@python.org
 Subject: Re: [Mailman-Developers] mailman 3.0 roadmap, feature-parity
 with mailman 2.x and documentation
 
 On 04/29/2015 01:26 PM, Brian Carpenter wrote:
 
  Is there a recommended server environment to run Mailman 3?
 
 
 It should install and run on any *nix server that supports both Python
 2.7 and Python 3.0, an MTA capable of LMTP delivery to Mailman
 (currently configurations for Postfix and Exim are provided) and a web
 server compatible with Django.
 
 We haven't tested all the possible combinations, and we've admittedly
 been a moving target, but things should get better and if you try and
 have issues, report them to this list or the appropriate (Mailman,
 Postorius or HyperKitty) bug tracker on Launchpad, and we will both try
 to help you through them and fix them.
 plea
 This is a major project and we are fewer than a dozen main contributers
 to its development, and we are all volunteers who do this for our own
 personal reasons, but not for money (most of us have day jobs; I'm
 fortunate enough to be retired). We need your involvement to make this
 successful. We welcome your help.
 /plea
 
 --
 Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.netThe highway is for gamblers,
 San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan

Thanks Mark. I will have my developer update Mailman 3 on my CentOS 6 server
when I come back from vacation. I will then do some thorough testing and
post my findings to this list.

Brian Carpenter
EMWD.com

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Re: [Mailman-Developers] mailman 3.0 roadmap, feature-parity with mailman 2.x and documentation

[Mark Sapiro]

On 04/29/2015 08:45 PM, Brian Carpenter wrote:

 On 04/29/2015 01:26 PM, Brian Carpenter wrote:

 Is there a recommended server environment to run Mailman 3?


 It should install and run on any *nix server that supports both Python
 2.7 and Python 3.0


That's wrong. I was conflating Mailman and Python Releases. Mailman 3.0
nominally requires Python 2.7 and Python 3.4. It may run with earlier
Python 3.x releases, but no guarantees and probably not as old as 3.0 or
even 3.1 in any case.


 Thanks Mark. I will have my developer update Mailman 3 on my CentOS 6 server
 when I come back from vacation. I will then do some thorough testing and
 post my findings to this list.


Thank you.

-- 
Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.netThe highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan
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Re: [Mailman-Developers] mailman 3.0 roadmap, feature-parity with mailman 2.x and documentation

[Barry Warsaw]

On Apr 29, 2015, at 01:17 AM, shirish wrote:

We aim to release Mailman 3.0rc1 in late April, 2015. - wiki entry

What would be nice is if there is some ETA as to when 3.0 will be released to
the general public. Are there going to be another 2-3-4 RC releases before
3.0 is ready ?

Actually, we just released 3.0 today. :)

While this is good to know, is there a matrix of features somewhere which
shows features of mailman 2.x vs mailman 3.0 . I am unable to find such a
page in the wiki or perhaps I didn't search enough.

We don't really have this right now.  I think we'll start to fill out the bug
tracker with features or fixes that need to be forward ported to Mailman 3.
Some things you won't miss, like passwords in clear text, monthly password
reminders, having multiple accounts to manage subscriptions with different
email addresses, no built-in archive searching, restrictions on naming lists
in multiple domains, etc.

Lastly, the documentation for 3.0.x seems to be a good way at
http://gnu-mailman.readthedocs.org/en/latest/ would be nicer if there was a
way to generate .pdf from the content therein.

You can do it from the source tree.  We build the docs with Sphinx and I
believe it has a PDF option.  We likely won't officially distribute PDFs.

Cheers,
-Barry

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[Mailman-Developers] mailman 3.0 roadmap, feature-parity with mailman 2.x and documentation

[shirish]

Hi all,

Thank you for the unblemished service by Mailman. It is due to you that 
many FOSS projects continue to see the light of the day as email 
continues to hold its sway on developers rather than forums and mail 
management continues to be easier due to Mailman.


Newbie here. I have been reading the Mailman wiki page specifically 
http://wiki.list.org/DEV/Mailman%203.0


Now from the wiki page :-

We aim to release Mailman 3.0rc1 in late April, 2015. - wiki entry

While RC1 is hopefully round the corner there doesn't seem to be a 
roadmap at least within mailman. The launchpad series gives the following :-


https://launchpad.net/mailman/+series

What would be nice is if there is some ETA as to when 3.0 will be 
released to the general public. Are there going to be another 2-3-4 RC 
releases before 3.0 is ready ?


Another query :-

 It is not yet at full feature parity with Mailman 2.x, but we're 
working on that for 3.1.   - wiki entry on the same page.


While this is good to know, is there a matrix of features somewhere 
which shows features of mailman 2.x vs mailman 3.0 . I am unable to find 
such a page in the wiki or perhaps I didn't search enough.


In any case if there is a listing of features of both mailman 3.x and 
mailman 2.x  would be helpful for both newbies as well as experienced 
users as it will look like a snapshot of the features integrated or used 
in the new release. It doesn't have to be finished today but if there is 
even some information about the existence of such a page with 
differences between 2.x and 3.x would be immensely helpful.



Lastly, the documentation for 3.0.x seems to be a good way at 
http://gnu-mailman.readthedocs.org/en/latest/ would be nicer if there 
was a way to generate .pdf from the content therein.


Look forward to trying out Mailman 3 soonish.
--
Regards,
Shirish Agarwal,
Community Lead,
Hamaralinux.org
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Re: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman 3.0 todo list

[Stephen J. Turnbull]

nkarageuz...@gmail.com writes:

  I'm looking forward mailman 3 to find efficient archive UI, with posting
  from web feature (just like in http://groupserver.org/)

I don't see a reply, so even though I'm not the best person to answer
this I'll take a hack at it.

There were two or three proposals related to this feature for GSoC
this year.  The one directly targeting this feature didn't make the
cut.  There's another, more ambitious, project to create a user
interface for reading, posting, archive browsing, and user profile
updates, which is being supervised by a mentor from the Systers.

However, neither of these seems like it will be ready for prime time
soon.  I don't think the student who proposed the feature to Mailman
was serious about it, he was just hoping to get a GSoC internship.  I
doubt he's working on it (anyway, we haven't heard a peep from him
since).  The Systers student is working on something specifically for
use of Systers, and I don't know whether we can integrate it into
Mailman 3 directly.

  Should i consider pipermail or Postorious for rendering ?

Pipermail is dead.  Postorius is an option for UI, but it's not really
about viewing or posting messages, it's more for admin (both list and
user profiles).  The archive manager under development currently is
HyperKitty, which you can find out more about from
https://github.com/hyperkitty/hyperkitty.

Steve
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Re: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman 3.0 todo list

[nkarageuz...@gmail.com]

Hi Steeve,

Thank-you for spending some time answering my noob question.

I've found hyperkitty after reading many docs.

It's great and i have submitted pull request for it.

Best regards


2013/8/12 Stephen J. Turnbull step...@xemacs.org

 nkarageuz...@gmail.com writes:

   I'm looking forward mailman 3 to find efficient archive UI, with posting
   from web feature (just like in http://groupserver.org/)

 I don't see a reply, so even though I'm not the best person to answer
 this I'll take a hack at it.

 There were two or three proposals related to this feature for GSoC
 this year.  The one directly targeting this feature didn't make the
 cut.  There's another, more ambitious, project to create a user
 interface for reading, posting, archive browsing, and user profile
 updates, which is being supervised by a mentor from the Systers.

 However, neither of these seems like it will be ready for prime time
 soon.  I don't think the student who proposed the feature to Mailman
 was serious about it, he was just hoping to get a GSoC internship.  I
 doubt he's working on it (anyway, we haven't heard a peep from him
 since).  The Systers student is working on something specifically for
 use of Systers, and I don't know whether we can integrate it into
 Mailman 3 directly.

   Should i consider pipermail or Postorious for rendering ?

 Pipermail is dead.  Postorius is an option for UI, but it's not really
 about viewing or posting messages, it's more for admin (both list and
 user profiles).  The archive manager under development currently is
 HyperKitty, which you can find out more about from
 https://github.com/hyperkitty/hyperkitty.

 Steve




-- 
 Nicolas Karageuzian
  http://nico.karageuzian.com/
Je soutiens les logiciels libres, j'adhère à l'APRIL
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Re: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman 3.0 todo list

[nkarageuz...@gmail.com]

Hi,

I'm looking forward mailman 3 to find efficient archive UI, with posting
from web feature (just like in http://groupserver.org/)

I don't know if it's in the roadmap, from the archive i can read

The archiver and the web interface are at best early beta, but there
are running prototypes.  You can substitute a 3rd party service
likemail-archive.com if that is satisfactory.

( ref
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-developers/2013-July/023197.html)

and in the todo (http://wiki.list.org/display/DEV/Mailman+3.0)

i've read the paragraph about archiving but not found mention of such
feature.

I'm confident with python and could start some points, but i may need
orientation or tricks to start over.

I've cloned the repository mailman and watched the src/mailman/archiving
dir.

Looks like a good starting point for inserting messages in postgresql.

The questions i have are :

Should i consider pipermail or Postorious for rendering ?

or start brand new project for dynamic and interactive web archive
interface ?

Best regards

-- 
 Nicolas Karageuzian
  http://nico.karageuzian.com/
Je soutiens les logiciels libres, j'adhère à l'APRIL
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 Nouvelles de l'APRIL
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Re: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman 3.0 todo list

[Geoff Shang]

Hi,

I was just about to ask about the status of Mailman 3.  What I'm looking 
for is some idea of what it can do already.  For example, it has all its 
features but needs to be administered from the command line, or it's 
missing important feature X, or it has everything but some switches can't 
be adjusted easily yet.


The reason why I'm asking is that I'm in need of some Mm3 features and was 
wondering if it was ready for limited deployment, and if so, what those 
limits currently are.


Thanks,
Geoff.

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Re: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman 3.0 todo list

[Stephen J. Turnbull]

Geoff Shang writes:

  The reason why I'm asking is that I'm in need of some Mm3 features
  and was wondering if it was ready for limited deployment, and if
  so, what those limits currently are.

The list server is in beta, when combined with Postfix as the MTA.
Interfaces to other MTAs have not yet been created yet.

The archiver and the web interface are at best early beta, but there
are running prototypes.  You can substitute a 3rd party service like
mail-archive.com if that is satisfactory.

The User model remains somewhat incomplete.  By that I mean that we
don't have a successful integration of Mailman users with enterprise
user databases.  The linkage seems a bit ad hoc in the prototypes that
GSoC students are working on.

There are no deployments I know of, although Barry may.  (I'm leaving
out people who are playing with betas; by deployment I mean
supporting real work.)  The GSoC mentors and students are discussing
setting one up that we can experiment either.

HTH

Steve
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Re: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman 3.0 todo list

[Chris Nulk]

On 7/14/2013 9:21 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

Terri Oda writes:
   I've started a new things left to do before Mailman 3 releases list
   over at
   http://wiki.list.org/display/DEV/Mailman+3.0
  
   Mostly this is so the next time someone asks me So, when are you
   releasing? I can at least say We don't have a date yet, but here's the
   remaining todo list but also because I think our wiki is rather
   information-poor on the subject of the current status of mailman 3 suite.
  
   I've populated the list with some todos leftover from PyCon, but I only
   really pulled out the postorius ones.  Barry, Aurelian, maybe you could
   populate the Mailman and Hyperkitty lists?

Good idea!

The only thing I can think of offhand for core is Exim support.
(Sendmail support, I suppose, but nobody I know uses Sendmail, and I


Sendmail support would be nice.


can't do it.  Exim on the other hand is on my personal list.)

We should contact the GSoC students and ask them for suggestions.  Of
course, whether they are actually TODOs is to be decided by project
leads.  Do we have an RFE page that random wiki users could be allowed
to add to?


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Re: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman 3.0 todo list

[Terri Oda]

On 13-07-15 8:28 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

There are no deployments I know of, although Barry may.  (I'm leaving
out people who are playing with betas; by deployment I mean
supporting real work.)  The GSoC mentors and students are discussing
setting one up that we can experiment either.


Postorius had a bug from someone running a 2000-person local music list 
on Mailman 3, so there's at least one fairly significant deployment that 
I know of.


The thing that usually stops people from trying the Mailman 3 suite out 
is that we have no upgrade path from mailman 2 to mailman 3 at the 
moment.  I believe there's a conversion script for archives, but you'd 
have to write your own script to migrate users and list settings.


 Terri

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Re: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman 3.0 todo list

[Barry Warsaw]

On Jul 14, 2013, at 03:52 PM, Terri Oda wrote:

I've started a new things left to do before Mailman 3 releases list over at
http://wiki.list.org/display/DEV/Mailman+3.0

Thanks Terri.  I'll spend some time pouring over that page w.r.t. the core,
updating it, removing old to-do items, and filling in some details with my
notes and tracker bugs.  Anybody interested in following details should
subscribe to that wiki page.

-Barry


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Re: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman 3.0 todo list

[Barry Warsaw]

On Jul 15, 2013, at 11:28 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

There are no deployments I know of, although Barry may.  (I'm leaving
out people who are playing with betas; by deployment I mean
supporting real work.)  The GSoC mentors and students are discussing
setting one up that we can experiment either.

Several months ago, I had a lot of discussions with someone who is using the
core in their own project.  I don't believe that work is public, so I'm not
going to name the user, but it's different than the one Terri mentioned.

-Barry
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Re: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman 3.0 todo list

[Barry Warsaw]

On Jul 15, 2013, at 01:21 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

The only thing I can think of offhand for core is Exim support.
(Sendmail support, I suppose, but nobody I know uses Sendmail, and I
can't do it.  Exim on the other hand is on my personal list.)

I'd very much love to have Exim and Sendmail support.  If you're an expert in
one of those MTAs, please help us by contributing code and documentation for
integrating them.  Based on the Postfix integration, I suspect it will be
mostly documentation and integration with alias creation.

Integration is LMTP from MTA-MM3 and SMTP from MM3-MTA so I think there's
probably little or nothing that has to happen at that level, except document
how to set up your MTA to work properly.  The most complicated part of the
Postfix integration is making sure the aliases are set up correct so that when
new mailing lists are added to MM3, the MTA recognizes them.  That may require
a bit of code, but I think the APIs are well documented.

I'd also like to see better PostgreSQL and or MySQL-family integration.
SQLite is the default, and we have PostgreSQL support already, although a few
tests fail with PG.  I would welcome PG fixes, and additional support for any
database that Storm supports.  (Note that at some point we may ditch Storm for
SQLAlchemy, but I don't think that will majorly affect the set of FLOSS
supported databases).

-Barry


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Re: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman 3.0 todo list

[Stephen J. Turnbull]

Barry Warsaw writes:
  On Jul 15, 2013, at 01:21 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
  
  The only thing I can think of offhand for core is Exim support.
  (Sendmail support, I suppose, but nobody I know uses Sendmail, and I
  can't do it.  Exim on the other hand is on my personal list.)
  
  I'd very much love to have Exim and Sendmail support.  If you're an
  expert

I'm not an Exim expert, but on my personal list means I'm going to
start working on it tomorrow [or a little later due to Terri's recent
edict to GSoCers].  I'll be happy to compare notes or pair program or
whatever floats boats with anybody else interested.

Steve


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[Mailman-Developers] Mailman 3.0 todo list

[Terri Oda]

I've started a new things left to do before Mailman 3 releases list
over at
http://wiki.list.org/display/DEV/Mailman+3.0

Mostly this is so the next time someone asks me So, when are you
releasing? I can at least say We don't have a date yet, but here's the
remaining todo list but also because I think our wiki is rather
information-poor on the subject of the current status of mailman 3 suite.

I've populated the list with some todos leftover from PyCon, but I only
really pulled out the postorius ones.  Barry, Aurelian, maybe you could
populate the Mailman and Hyperkitty lists?

 Terri
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Re: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman 3.0 fresh install - problems from python interpreter

[Chris Cargile]

In case others might be interested and appreciating a bit of help recalling
what the search feature's development status is at the moment, this email
spawned from a thread in June 2012, here:

http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers@python.org/msg12921.html


 On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 2:36 PM, Chris Cargile follybeach...@gmail.comwrote:

 **
 I have been facing some of the installation/configuration/CLI issues
 Jessy mentions and agree the documentation could call out a bit more
 explicitly the proper steps but all the same good progress is being made!

 I'm hoping to complete the same 'create new mailing lists' step that
 Jessy pointed to
 http://packages.python.org/mailman/src/mailman/commands/docs/create.html,
 but I did not install via the python-installation procedure.. rather, I
 completed the Ubuntu tutorial located here:
 https://help.ubuntu.com/12.04/serverguide/mailman.html

 A mailman instance is successfully running, but this installation has
 left me without (as far as I can find) certain bin/ commands to be run in
 the interpreter, including mailman (as in, e g:  'mailman info').  I am
 wondering if there is a simple way to access the functionality described in
 the python docs pages, such that importing the various zope,etc modules
 will work in the CLI, without rebuilding mailman from scratch (using the
 python build-out procedure)

 I hope I can make this work, but seeing as how my end-goal is to better
 learn the basics of a programming language that is probably better-position
 for future viability (--Python) than ones I'd taken up previously (ie:
 php), in addition to developing for the mailman utility, I will remain in a
 good position either way :)

 - my end-goal with this endeavor is the create a script that accepts
 mlist as the argument and generates a separate file for each email
 (pickle?) in the list archive.  Achieving this will allow me to more easily
 create the search interface I'm after which I'm hoping will become a
 proof-of-concept implementation for the search engine for archives
 to-do list feature http://list.org/todo.html.

 As I interpret this goal, another way of saying this I think is: it
 would be great if list administrators could drop-in a module to deploy an
 html form-search interface that indexes previous archives, in addition to
 allowing mail-archive.com to archive future messages to the list.



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Re: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman 3.0 fresh install - problems from python interpreter

[Richard Wackerbarth]

Jessy,

Yes, there are plans (and activity) related to the presentation of list 
archives within the django framework.
In fact, Aamir, one of our GSoC interns, is working on that very subject as his 
project for the summer.

In keeping with the django philosophy of combining many special purpose apps 
to create the overall website, the archive access will be packaged as a 
component separate from the postorius administrative interface.

Richard

On Jun 10, 2012, at 11:57 PM, Jessy Kate Schingler wrote:
 one question i had about the UI - are there plans for including 
 views/templates for list archives? 

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Re: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman 3.0 fresh install - problems from python interpreter

[Jessy Kate Schingler]

good to know, look forward to seeing it!

On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 6:21 AM, Richard Wackerbarth rich...@nfsnet.orgwrote:

 Jessy,

 Yes, there are plans (and activity) related to the presentation of list
 archives within the django framework.
 In fact, Aamir, one of our GSoC interns, is working on that very subject
 as his project for the summer.

 In keeping with the django philosophy of combining many special purpose
 apps to create the overall website, the archive access will be packaged
 as a component separate from the postorius administrative interface.

 Richard

 On Jun 10, 2012, at 11:57 PM, Jessy Kate Schingler wrote:
  one question i had about the UI - are there plans for including
 views/templates for list archives?




-- 
Jessy
http://jessykate.com
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Re: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman 3.0 fresh install - problems from python interpreter

[Jessy Kate Schingler]

hello again, and thanks for the response.

What I've always thought is that overview, architectural, and other useful
 higher level documentation should go in src/mailman/docs.  Still using the
 reST format, but they needn't necessarily be doctests.  So I think an
 overview
 page about interacting with Mailman through the Python interpreter would
 make a great page for this directory, and if you want to do a branch/merge
 proposal on that, I would gladly review it.


ok. i'm not totally familiar with the what/where/why of the different doc
locations. the docs that get built with sphinx (ironically, the docs about
building the docs are actually not quite right :)) are the same as the ones
at http://packages.python.org/mailman/, and seem to be a
somewhat-overlapping set with those in src/mailman/docs? i am happy to
contribute to whichever location you all think is best.


 One of the principles I've tried to hold to (successfully or not ;) is that
 the edges of the system, e.g. the shell scripts and the REST API, should
 have
 very little logic outside of managing that edge.  So for example, the
 cli_*.py
 modules should do little more than parse command line options, massage data
 into the right format, and then call into the core API, by using the
 zope.interfaces.  By organizing things this way, a Python program could
 conceivably add the proper directory to its sys.path and just 'import
 mailman'
 and various submodules to do exactly the same operations.


now that's i'm getting a tiny bit more familiar with the system, i can see
how this makes sense with so many different interacting components.

the zope interfaces seem to be a conceptually distinct part of the system
but i can't see where their role is documented. am i missing that?
(apologies for asking questions that i'm sure have been answered before,
feel free to just point me to a url).


 So, I would say that if you're interacting with MM3 across process
 boundaries,
 e.g. Django on one machine with the core on another, the REST API is the
 best
 way to go.  If you're interacting with MM3 on the same machine, within
 process, then 'import mailman' could be a good way to go (but of course the
 REST API still works), or you could use withlist scripts, or just script
 the
 cli.


great, yes, this makes sense. it seems like the REST interface is designed
to be the primary interface to the system, which is logical given that MM3
would in general be running as a remote service. i was originally thinking
of it more like this:

MM3 - exposes python packages and connectors - my code
  |-- rest interface (optional)

sort of like hooking into, say, mongodb or a remote mysql instance. whereas
IIUC the design is intended to be used more like this:

MM3 - rest interface - official/unofficial MM3 rest bindings
(mailman.client) - my code (or, alternatively, postorius goes here, etc.)

in this interpretation, it's not that hooking right into MM3 is a bad thing
per se, but is kind of missing the point, and doing additional work to
route around the effort that's been made to provide a simple interface.


 I hope the above explains things, if not just ask!  Note that if you go the
 'import mailman' route, you will need to initialize the system.  A good
 model
 for how that's done is src/mailman/bin/mailman.py which is what implements
 the
 'bin/mailman' uber-command.  Other than doing fancy things to get --help
 looking decent, it's almost ridiculously simple.


thank you! i think the picture is coming together. i'll keep documenting
what i'm doing and hopefully will provide some good install/setup/testing
documentation...

-- 
Jessy
http://jessykate.com
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Re: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman 3.0 fresh install - problems from python interpreter

[Jessy Kate Schingler]

hi richard,

Good end-user documentation always seems to be something that gets shorted
 by the developers intimately related to the implementation aspect of the
 code. And, even when they make the effort, I'm not sure that they are the
 most qualified to write that kind of documentation. Someone less involved
 in the implementation often has a better perspective of the end-user needs
 regarding documentation.


indeed, fresh perspectives are fleeting :).


 Since you are working in the Django world, we would hope that you would
 utilize the postorius app, and leverage off of it for your customization.
 By doing so, it will be much easier for you to remain integrated with any
 changes that come down the line.


agreed and i am looking forward to integrating this.


 IMHO, at the moment, the postorius templates can be improved by doing some
 refactoring to keep their functionality in a {% block %} structure that can
 be integrated into another site without having to re-implement entire
 pages. I would like to have you review the present template structure and
 suggest which portions you would utilize as presented and those which ones
 you would prefer to change.


thanks for the pointers and direction. i'll keep this in mind as i begin
working with the code and try to make some useful suggestions (and/or will
send links to any code i factor out myself).

one question i had about the UI - are there plans for including
views/templates for list archives?

thanks,
-- 
Jessy
http://jessykate.com
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Re: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman 3.0 fresh install - problems from python interpreter

[Jessy Kate Schingler]

thanks mark and barry. i've been traveling so apologies for the delayed
reply...

using `bin/mailman shell` command does indeed work flawlessly, thank you!

should the docs be updated perhaps? something either under getting started
with GNU Maiman or even a specific page on interacting with mailman
through the python interpreter? i am happy to add something or contribute
to that; i think it would certainly facilitate others working with the
software if that bit was a bit more clear.

in general, what is that the recommended way to script one's own
interactions with mailman as part of a larger python program? would it be
through mailman.client official bindings? i see there are a number of
imports in bin/mailman and subsequently in
src/mailman/commands/cli_withlist.py (which i gather is an alias for
shell). should those be a sufficient set of imports and initializations?

in this particular case, i am building a django app so it seems i can rely
on postorious and mailman.client, but that wouldn't necessarily be the case
in general, and my curiosity is piqued about how the scaffolding process
and imports work so i can do things The Right Way.

thanks!
jessy

On Tue, Jun 5, 2012 at 7:09 PM, Barry Warsaw ba...@list.org wrote:

 Hi Jessy,

 You're doing everything right, but there's one conceptual step that you're
 missing, and which isn't evident from the docs.

 As Mark says, `mailman shell` is the best way to get a Python interactive
 interpreter shell to play with the internal Mailman API.  Why is this
 better
 than just running the virtualenv's `python` interpreter directly?  It's
 because there are a bunch of subsystems that have to be initialized before
 things will work correctly.  E.g., the Zope component architecture (ZCA),
 the
 logging subsystem, the configuration subsystem, queues, rules, pipelines,
 etc.  The exception you're getting is because the ZCA hasn't been
 initialized
 yet.

 `mailman shell` ensures that everything is initialized, then it gives you
 an
 interpreter prompt.

 Hope that helps.
 -Barry
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http://jessykate.com
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Re: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman 3.0 fresh install - problems from python interpreter

[Barry Warsaw]

On Jun 07, 2012, at 09:31 AM, Jessy Kate Schingler wrote:

should the docs be updated perhaps? something either under getting started
with GNU Maiman or even a specific page on interacting with mailman
through the python interpreter? i am happy to add something or contribute
to that; i think it would certainly facilitate others working with the
software if that bit was a bit more clear.

Hi Jessy.  Yes, I definitely think the docs should be updated, but perhaps not
the page you were reading.

What I've always thought is that overview, architectural, and other useful
higher level documentation should go in src/mailman/docs.  Still using the
reST format, but they needn't necessarily be doctests.  So I think an overview
page about interacting with Mailman through the Python interpreter would
make a great page for this directory, and if you want to do a branch/merge
proposal on that, I would gladly review it.

in general, what is that the recommended way to script one's own
interactions with mailman as part of a larger python program? would it be
through mailman.client official bindings? i see there are a number of
imports in bin/mailman and subsequently in
src/mailman/commands/cli_withlist.py (which i gather is an alias for
shell). should those be a sufficient set of imports and initializations?

Well, kind of the point is that there are multiple ways of doing it, depending
on what you're trying to do.

One of the principles I've tried to hold to (successfully or not ;) is that
the edges of the system, e.g. the shell scripts and the REST API, should have
very little logic outside of managing that edge.  So for example, the cli_*.py
modules should do little more than parse command line options, massage data
into the right format, and then call into the core API, by using the
zope.interfaces.  By organizing things this way, a Python program could
conceivably add the proper directory to its sys.path and just 'import mailman'
and various submodules to do exactly the same operations.

This wasn't the case with Mailman 2, because the CGIs, cli scripts, etc. had
way too much logic in them, so to reproduce their functionality on other
boundaries was just too difficult.  I think that's a big reason why people
wrote shell scripts to use the MM2 cli rather than bin/withlist scripts or
importing the Mailman namespace.

So, I would say that if you're interacting with MM3 across process boundaries,
e.g. Django on one machine with the core on another, the REST API is the best
way to go.  If you're interacting with MM3 on the same machine, within
process, then 'import mailman' could be a good way to go (but of course the
REST API still works), or you could use withlist scripts, or just script the
cli.

(Note that mailman.client, while official, isn't strictly necessary, since
the REST API can be used from anything that speaks HTTP.)

in this particular case, i am building a django app so it seems i can rely
on postorious and mailman.client, but that wouldn't necessarily be the case
in general, and my curiosity is piqued about how the scaffolding process
and imports work so i can do things The Right Way.

I hope the above explains things, if not just ask!  Note that if you go the
'import mailman' route, you will need to initialize the system.  A good model
for how that's done is src/mailman/bin/mailman.py which is what implements the
'bin/mailman' uber-command.  Other than doing fancy things to get --help
looking decent, it's almost ridiculously simple.

Cheers,
-Barry


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Re: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman 3.0 fresh install - problems from python interpreter

[Richard Wackerbarth]

Jessy,

I'm sure that any additions to the documentation will be welcomed.

Good end-user documentation always seems to be something that gets shorted by 
the developers intimately related to the implementation aspect of the code. 
And, even when they make the effort, I'm not sure that they are the most 
qualified to write that kind of documentation. Someone less involved in the 
implementation often has a better perspective of the end-user needs regarding 
documentation.

As for your project, we have assumed that the website serving the UI is not the 
same host as that which hosts the MM core itself. As a result, attempting to 
use the command line utilities as your access method would not be the best 
implementation choice. There is a REST interface exposed, and your access 
should go through that.

Since you are working in the Django world, we would hope that you would utilize 
the postorius app, and leverage off of it for your customization. By doing so, 
it will be much easier for you to remain integrated with any changes that come 
down the line.

IMHO, at the moment, the postorius templates can be improved by doing some 
refactoring to keep their functionality in a {% block %} structure that can be 
integrated into another site without having to re-implement entire pages. I 
would like to have you review the present template structure and suggest which 
portions you would utilize as presented and those which ones you would prefer 
to change.

Thanks for your interest,

Richard

On Jun 7, 2012, at 11:31 AM, Jessy Kate Schingler wrote:

 thanks mark and barry. i've been traveling so apologies for the delayed
 reply...
 
 using `bin/mailman shell` command does indeed work flawlessly, thank you!
 
 should the docs be updated perhaps? something either under getting started
 with GNU Maiman or even a specific page on interacting with mailman
 through the python interpreter? i am happy to add something or contribute
 to that; i think it would certainly facilitate others working with the
 software if that bit was a bit more clear.
 
 in general, what is that the recommended way to script one's own
 interactions with mailman as part of a larger python program? would it be
 through mailman.client official bindings? i see there are a number of
 imports in bin/mailman and subsequently in
 src/mailman/commands/cli_withlist.py (which i gather is an alias for
 shell). should those be a sufficient set of imports and initializations?
 
 in this particular case, i am building a Django app so it seems i can rely
 on postorious and mailman.client, but that wouldn't necessarily be the case
 in general, and my curiosity is piqued about how the scaffolding process
 and imports work so i can do things The Right Way.
 
 thanks!
 jessy
 
 On Tue, Jun 5, 2012 at 7:09 PM, Barry Warsaw ba...@list.org wrote:
 
 Hi Jessy,
 
 You're doing everything right, but there's one conceptual step that you're
 missing, and which isn't evident from the docs.
 
 As Mark says, `mailman shell` is the best way to get a Python interactive
 interpreter shell to play with the internal Mailman API.  Why is this
 better
 than just running the virtualenv's `python` interpreter directly?  It's
 because there are a bunch of subsystems that have to be initialized before
 things will work correctly.  E.g., the Zope component architecture (ZCA),
 the
 logging subsystem, the configuration subsystem, queues, rules, pipelines,
 etc.  The exception you're getting is because the ZCA hasn't been
 initialized
 yet.
 
 `mailman shell` ensures that everything is initialized, then it gives you
 an
 interpreter prompt.
 
 Hope that helps.
 -Barry
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Re: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman 3.0 fresh install - problems from python interpreter

[Barry Warsaw]

Hi Jessy,

You're doing everything right, but there's one conceptual step that you're
missing, and which isn't evident from the docs.

As Mark says, `mailman shell` is the best way to get a Python interactive
interpreter shell to play with the internal Mailman API.  Why is this better
than just running the virtualenv's `python` interpreter directly?  It's
because there are a bunch of subsystems that have to be initialized before
things will work correctly.  E.g., the Zope component architecture (ZCA), the
logging subsystem, the configuration subsystem, queues, rules, pipelines,
etc.  The exception you're getting is because the ZCA hasn't been initialized
yet.

`mailman shell` ensures that everything is initialized, then it gives you an
interpreter prompt.

Hope that helps.
-Barry
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[Mailman-Developers] Mailman 3.0 fresh install - problems from python interpreter

[Jessy Kate Schingler]

hello!

i am setting up mailman 3.0 on ubuntu 12.04. but getting errors when i try
to work with mailman through the python interpreter. i hope this is the
correct list to post to.

here are the steps i took:

- installed mailman 3.0.0.b1 in a fresh virtualenv
- install is happy, all tests pass (Total: 383 tests, 0 failures, 0 errors
in 3 minutes 27.980 seconds.)
- default mailman.cfg file, stored in top level mailman dir (eg, it's a
sibling to the bin/ directory)
- basic postfix config, as descibed here:
http://packages.python.org/mailman/src/mailman/docs/MTA.html#postfix
- start mailman with bin/mailman start (no errors to be seen)

then i go to follow the example on how to create new mailing lists:
http://packages.python.org/mailman/src/mailman/commands/docs/create.html

but attempting to import mailman packages fails, so it seems the python
packages aren't installed? so i run `python setup.py install` in main
mailman directory. after that, the imports work, but i get an error at the
point of trying to call `command.process(FakeArgs)` as described on the
create page. the error is as follows:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File stdin, line 1, in module
  File
/home/jessykate/virtualenvs/mailman/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/mailman-3.0.0b1-py2.7.egg/mailman/commands/cli_lists.py,
line 180, in process
else system_preferences.preferred_language.code)
  File
/home/jessykate/virtualenvs/mailman/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/mailman-3.0.0b1-py2.7.egg/mailman/core/constants.py,
line 53, in preferred_language
return getUtility(ILanguageManager)[config.mailman.default_language]
  File
/home/jessykate/virtualenvs/mailman/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/zope.component-3.12.1-py2.7.egg/zope/component/_api.py,
line 169, in getUtility
raise ComponentLookupError(interface, name)
zope.interface.interfaces.ComponentLookupError: (InterfaceClass
mailman.interfaces.languages.ILanguageManager, '')

FWIW, i have also installed the postorius interface and all seems to work
from this approach. i can even verify that the mailing list i created
through the postorius interface shows up when i issue `bin/mailman lists`.

any idea on how to fix this error? am i missing something? i tried a few
other of the instruction pages in the 3.0 docs and all generated errors of
some kind. so perhaps i'm just not importing/installing the packages
properly?

any help greatly appreciated. thanks,
-- 
Jessy
http://jessykate.com
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Re: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman 3.0 fresh install - problems frompython interpreter

[Mark Sapiro]

Jessy Kate Schingler wrote:

then i go to follow the example on how to create new mailing lists:
http://packages.python.org/mailman/src/mailman/commands/docs/create.html

but attempting to import mailman packages fails, so it seems the python
packages aren't installed? so i run `python setup.py install` in main
mailman directory. after that, the imports work, but i get an error at the
point of trying to call `command.process(FakeArgs)` as described on the
create page. the error is as follows:


All the code in the docs was run as part of the doctest suite when you
ran the tests, so it presumably works in your install. I suspect the
issue is you just don't have paths and things set right.

If you actually want to run Python code, you should run it via
Mailman's bin/mailman shell (or bin/mailman withlist which is the
same thing).

However, for creating lists and other common tasks, there are
subcommands of the bin/mailman command. Run bin/mailman help for
more info.

-- 
Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.netThe highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan

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[Mailman-Developers] Mailman 3.0 install woes...

[Max Lanfranconi]

HI all,

I am trying to install mailman 3 on Solaris 10 x86 as I would like to
test a few new features that would greatly simplify our current
deployment. (mailman 2.1.12)

I got the latest bazaar image as per the website instructions:
bzr branch lp:mailman

I then ran


#python2.6 bootstrap.py
Downloading
http://pypi.python.org/packages/2.6/s/setuptools/setuptools-0.6c11-py2.6.egg
Creating directory '/usr/local/mailman3/mm3bzr/mailman/bin'.
Creating directory '/usr/local/mailman3/mm3bzr/mailman/parts'.
Creating directory '/usr/local/mailman3/mm3bzr/mailman/eggs'.
Creating directory '/usr/local/mailman3/mm3bzr/mailman/develop-eggs'.
Generated script '/usr/local/mailman3/mm3bzr/mailman/bin/buildout'.
#

followed by

# bin/buildout
Getting distribution for 'setuptools'.
Got setuptools 0.6c12dev-r80622.
Upgraded:
  setuptools version 0.6c12dev-r80622;
restarting.
Generated script '/usr/local/mailman3/mm3bzr/mailman/bin/buildout'.
Develop: '/usr/local/mailman3/mm3bzr/mailman/.'
Downloading
http://pypi.python.org/packages/source/d/distribute/distribute-0.6.8.tar.gz
Extracting in /tmp/tmpsHTFX9
Now working in /tmp/tmpsHTFX9/distribute-0.6.8
Building a Distribute egg in /usr/local/mailman3/mm3bzr/mailman
/usr/local/mailman3/mm3bzr/mailman/distribute-0.6.8-py2.6.egg
warning: no previously-included files matching '*.egg-info' found
anywhere in distribution
no previously-included directories found matching 'src/attic'
no previously-included directories found matching 'src/web'
Getting distribution for 'z3c.recipe.sphinxdoc'.
Got z3c.recipe.sphinxdoc 0.0.8.
Getting distribution for 'Sphinx'.
Got Sphinx 1.0.1.
Getting distribution for 'docutils'.
warning: no files found matching 'MANIFEST'
warning: no previously-included files matching '.cvsignore' found under
directory '*'
warning: no previously-included files matching '*.pyc' found under
directory '*'
warning: no previously-included files matching '*~' found under
directory '*'
warning: no previously-included files matching '.DS_Store' found under
directory '*'
zip_safe flag not set; analyzing archive contents...
docutils.parsers.rst.directives.misc: module references __file__
docutils.writers.html4css1.__init__: module references __file__
docutils.writers.pep_html.__init__: module references __file__
docutils.writers.s5_html.__init__: module references __file__
docutils.writers.latex2e.__init__: module references __file__
docutils.writers.newlatex2e.__init__: module references __file__
docutils.writers.odf_odt.__init__: module references __file__
Got docutils 0.7.
Getting distribution for 'zc.recipe.egg'.
Got zc.recipe.egg 1.2.3b2.
Getting distribution for 'Jinja2=2.2'.
warning: no previously-included files matching '*' found under directory
'docs/_build/doctrees'
warning: no previously-included files matching '*.pyc' found under
directory 'jinja2'
warning: no previously-included files matching '*.pyc' found under
directory 'docs'
warning: no previously-included files matching '*.pyo' found under
directory 'jinja2'
warning: no previously-included files matching '*.pyo' found under
directory 'docs'
Got Jinja2 2.5.
Getting distribution for 'Pygments=0.8'.
Got Pygments 1.3.1.
Getting distribution for 'z3c.recipe.filetemplate'.
Got z3c.recipe.filetemplate 2.1.0.
Getting distribution for 'zope.testing4'.
warning: no files found matching '*.test' under directory 'src'
warning: no files found matching 'sampletests' under directory 'src'
Got zope.testing 3.10.0.
Getting distribution for 'zope.interface'.
Got zope.interface 3.6.1.
Getting distribution for 'zope.configuration'.
Got zope.configuration 3.7.2.
Getting distribution for 'zope.component'.
Got zope.component 3.9.5.
Getting distribution for 'storm'.
Got storm 0.17.
Getting distribution for 'restish'.
Got restish 0.11.
Getting distribution for 'locknix'.
No Pyrex, trying Cython...

The python package 'Pyrex' is not available. If the .c files are available,
they will be built, but modifying the .pyx files will not rebuild them.

bzrlib/_bencode_pyx.c: In function
`__pyx_f_6bzrlib_12_bencode_pyx_7Encoder_process':
bzrlib/_bencode_pyx.c:1783: warning: '__pyx_exc_lineno' might be used
uninitialized in this function
bzrlib/_bencode_pyx.c: In function
`__pyx_f_6bzrlib_12_bencode_pyx_7Decoder__decode_int':
bzrlib/_bencode_pyx.c:648: warning: '__pyx_exc_lineno' might be used
uninitialized in this function
bzrlib/_bencode_pyx.c: In function
`__pyx_f_6bzrlib_12_bencode_pyx_7Decoder__decode_object':
bzrlib/_bencode_pyx.c:380: warning: '__pyx_r' might be used
uninitialized in this function
bzrlib/_bencode_pyx.c:491: warning: '__pyx_exc_lineno' might be used
uninitialized in this function
bzrlib/_groupcompress_pyx.c: In function
`__pyx_f_6bzrlib_18_groupcompress_pyx__apply_delta':
bzrlib/_groupcompress_pyx.c:1271: warning: '__pyx_v_cmd' might be used
uninitialized in this function
bzrlib/_rio_pyx.c: In function
`__pyx_f_6bzrlib_8_rio_pyx__read_stanza_unicode':
bzrlib/_rio_pyx.c:681: warning: '__pyx_r' might be used uninitialized 

Re: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman 3.0 UI Test Server

[Ian Eiloart]

--On 14 June 2010 19:21:04 +0200 Florian Fuchs f...@state-of-mind.de wrote:


Hi all,

we have set up a test server for the development of the Mailman 3.0 UI.
As coding on the UI progresses we will update it regularly so everybody
can see what's being done.

For now it contains a simple, experimental Django app I've written to
test list creation and subscription through Mailman's new REST API. You
can add mailing lists and subscribe to them. Mails sent to those lists
will not be delivered to subscribers but be kept in a separate IMAP
folder so nobody gets spammed (thanks Patrick!). This app will be
replaced as soon as there's a working code base for the real UI.

The server's address is http://mailman.state-of-mind.de


That's so much nicer than Mailman2!

A couple of small issues with list creation:

1. The checkboxes should be closer to the text in the languages list. It's 
hard to see which box applies to which text.


2. Mailman 3 supports multiple domains, right? So the list creation page 
should, perhaps, let me pick a domain from a drop down list.


3. Given that the list of lists is created from the list creation page, 
perhaps there should be an opportunity to fill in the List information 
field on the list creation page.



Cheers
Florian



--
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Agentur für Kommunikation, Design und Softwareentwicklung

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Franziskanerstraße 15Telefon +49 89 3090 4664
81669 München Telefax +49 89 3090 4666

Heckmannufer 2Telefon +49 30 3013 6756
10997 Berlin  Mobil +49 176 2064 0812

Amtsgericht München Partnerschaftsregister PR 563e

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--
Ian Eiloart
IT Services, University of Sussex
01273-873148 x3148
For new support requests, see http://www.sussex.ac.uk/its/help/


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Re: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman 3.0 UI Test Server

[Cristóbal Palmer]

On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 04:31:30PM +0100, Ian Eiloart wrote:
 
 The server's address is http://mailman.state-of-mind.de
 
 That's so much nicer than Mailman2!

Agreed! An earlier reply containing an ascii mockup got rejected, so
here is an image of what I was trying to convey:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2226600/two-column-mm3-mockup.png

Basically I want to make sure that the subscribe box always shows up
above the fold on the listinfo page. I get a fair number of tickets
because things are not above the fold.

Please let me know what you think of this idea.

Cheers,
-- 
Cristóbal Palmer
ibiblio.org
metalab.unc.edu
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Re: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman 3.0 UI Test Server

[Patrick Ben Koetter]

* Ian Eiloart i...@sussex.ac.uk:
 
 
 --On 14 June 2010 19:21:04 +0200 Florian Fuchs f...@state-of-mind.de wrote:
 
 Hi all,
 
 we have set up a test server for the development of the Mailman 3.0 UI.
 As coding on the UI progresses we will update it regularly so everybody
 can see what's being done.
 
 For now it contains a simple, experimental Django app I've written to
 test list creation and subscription through Mailman's new REST API. You
 can add mailing lists and subscribe to them. Mails sent to those lists
 will not be delivered to subscribers but be kept in a separate IMAP
 folder so nobody gets spammed (thanks Patrick!). This app will be
 replaced as soon as there's a working code base for the real UI.
 
 The server's address is http://mailman.state-of-mind.de
 
 That's so much nicer than Mailman2!

That was hard... ;)

 A couple of small issues with list creation:
 
 1. The checkboxes should be closer to the text in the languages
 list. It's hard to see which box applies to which text.

Agreed.

 2. Mailman 3 supports multiple domains, right? So the list creation
 page should, perhaps, let me pick a domain from a drop down list.

There will be a way to choose among the domains a user (role) has access to,
when MM3 and the REST server will provide such functionality.

What you see at the moment is about all the REST server can provide at the
moment.

 3. Given that the list of lists is created from the list creation
 page, perhaps there should be an opportunity to fill in the List
 information field on the list creation page.

Yep.

Do you have a wiki account? If not, you should get one and write down the
constraints here:

http://wiki.list.org/display/DEV/Suggestions+for+new+Mailman+3.0+UI

p...@rick


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Re: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman 3.0 UI Test Server

[Terri Oda]

Cristóbal Palmer wrote:

Basically I want to make sure that the subscribe box always shows up
above the fold on the listinfo page. I get a fair number of tickets
because things are not above the fold.


I like the idea in principle, but I don't think it'll work because 
there's a *lot* of stuff we want visible at first glance:


- subscribe
- unsubscribe
- archives
- list description
- user options
etc.

We might want to consider having a set of links across the top to 
smaller pages (or anchors within one page) rather than trying to jam all 
these needs across the top of one page.

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[Mailman-Developers] Mailman 3.0 UI Test Server

[Florian Fuchs]

Hi all, 

we have set up a test server for the development of the Mailman 3.0 UI. As 
coding on the UI progresses we will update it regularly so everybody can see 
what's being done.

For now it contains a simple, experimental Django app I've written to test list 
creation and subscription through Mailman's new REST API. You can add mailing 
lists and subscribe to them. Mails sent to those lists will not be delivered to 
subscribers but be kept in a separate IMAP folder so nobody gets spammed 
(thanks Patrick!). This app will be replaced as soon as there's a working code 
base for the real UI.

The server's address is http://mailman.state-of-mind.de

Cheers
Florian



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Re: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman 3.0 UI Test Server

[Barry Warsaw]

On Jun 14, 2010, at 07:21 PM, Florian Fuchs wrote:

we have set up a test server for the development of the Mailman 3.0 UI. As
coding on the UI progresses we will update it regularly so everybody can see
what's being done.

For now it contains a simple, experimental Django app I've written to test
list creation and subscription through Mailman's new REST API. You can add
mailing lists and subscribe to them. Mails sent to those lists will not be
delivered to subscribers but be kept in a separate IMAP folder so nobody gets
spammed (thanks Patrick!). This app will be replaced as soon as there's a
working code base for the real UI.

The server's address is http://mailman.state-of-mind.de

Yay!  Thanks Florian and Patrick.

Can we get access to the IMAP folder?
-Barry


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Re: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman 3.0 UI Test Server

[Patrick Ben Koetter]

* Barry Warsaw ba...@list.org:
 On Jun 14, 2010, at 07:21 PM, Florian Fuchs wrote:
 
 we have set up a test server for the development of the Mailman 3.0 UI. As
 coding on the UI progresses we will update it regularly so everybody can see
 what's being done.
 
 For now it contains a simple, experimental Django app I've written to test
 list creation and subscription through Mailman's new REST API. You can add
 mailing lists and subscribe to them. Mails sent to those lists will not be
 delivered to subscribers but be kept in a separate IMAP folder so nobody gets
 spammed (thanks Patrick!). This app will be replaced as soon as there's a
 working code base for the real UI.
 
 The server's address is http://mailman.state-of-mind.de
 
 Yay!  Thanks Florian and Patrick.
 
 Can we get access to the IMAP folder?

host:   mailman.state-of-mind.de
user:   mail...@mailman.state-of-mind.de
pass:   hemispheres

And, please (!), don't use it to trade files...

p...@rick

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Re: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman 3.0 UI Test Server

[Barry Warsaw]

On Jun 14, 2010, at 09:14 PM, Patrick Ben Koetter wrote:

 Can we get access to the IMAP folder?

host:   mailman.state-of-mind.de
user:   mail...@mailman.state-of-mind.de
pass:   hemispheres

And, please (!), don't use it to trade files...

Nice! I'm in.
-B


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Re: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman 3.0 UI Status?

[Barry Warsaw]

On Mar 22, 2010, at 01:46 PM, Jennifer Redman wrote:

Since Django is being used for the web-interface I'm curious about the
implications for the ORM.  Since MM 3.0 is using STORM - do you plan to just
not use the built-in Django ORM and go with STORM - or are you going to wind
up with 2 different database interfaces?

Great question.  I'm not a Django expert so I'm open to suggestions, but since
these are in a sense separate projects and their primary (only?) integration
point is the REST API, I think it would be okay to use the Django ORM for the
web ui and Storm for the core engine.  Ideally, the web ui would only have
enough model code for it to do its job, possibly including caching where
necessary, storing and accessing most of the core data in the engine via REST.

The place where things might get tricky is in authentication, and I'm not
really sure what the right answer is.  My sense is that if we can store that
in the core and provide it over REST that will work better.

-Barry 


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Re: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman 3.0 UI Status?

[Barry Warsaw]

On Mar 23, 2010, at 12:53 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

Kovács Zoltán writes:

  Dear All, do you have some screenshots about the upcoming Mailman3 UI? I
  have been Googling for some time but I didn't got appropriate results.

If you think screenshots of the UI are important, then Mailman 3 is
not for you, yet.  Please have some patience, it will be coming in a
few weeks I would guess.

Correct.  Florian will hopefully soon announce a public playground for the web
ui.  It's fairly simplistic right now, but we're working on ramping up
participation in its development, so stay tuned!

-Barry


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Re: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman 3.0 UI Status?

[Florian Fuchs]

 Since Django is being used for the web-interface I'm curious about the
 implications for the ORM.  Since MM 3.0 is using STORM - do you plan to just
 not use the built-in Django ORM and go with STORM - or are you going to wind
 up with 2 different database interfaces?

Hi Jen, 

so far the plan is to have the UI completely separated from the mailman core 
and have the two communicate via REST. So I guess there is no reason not to use 
the Django ORM. But - at the risk of missing something right now: I am not 
quite sure if the UI will even need an own database at all if the data is 
stored by the mailman core.

Cheers
Florian






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Re: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman 3.0 UI Status?

[Anna Granudd]

Hi,
I tried to find the page in the wiki Florian mentioned but realized it
probably hadn't been created  yet. Would you mind sending a link to it once
it's finished?

Thanks,
Anna



 there are still a few things to do but I'm hopeful I can get things ready
 over the weekend. My goal is to have a simple django skeleton running that
 talks to the rest server in a working MM3-environment. I will update the
 wiki
 with info on what is where and also outline some of the things we
 discussed
 during the sprint so everyone interested can get themselves up to speed.

 Sounds great Florian, thanks.  I think once we get the framework going and
 put
 a test server up, we're going to get a lot of folks interested in helping
 us
 flesh out the web ui.  At least I hope so! :)

 -Barry

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Re: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman 3.0 UI Status?

[Florian Fuchs]

 I tried to find the page in the wiki Florian mentioned but realized it
 probably hadn't been created  yet. Would you mind sending a link to it once
 it's finished?
No, it's not been created yet, I'm afraid. I will send the link around as soon 
as I have finished it. 

Florian

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Re: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman 3.0 UI Status?

[Jennifer Redman]

On Fri, Mar 19, 2010 at 6:52 AM, Barry Warsaw ba...@list.org wrote:

 On Mar 19, 2010, at 09:18 AM, Florian Fuchs wrote:

 there are still a few things to do but I'm hopeful I can get things ready
 over the weekend. My goal is to have a simple django skeleton running that
 talks to the rest server in a working MM3-environment. I will update the
 wiki
 with info on what is where and also outline some of the things we
 discussed
 during the sprint so everyone interested can get themselves up to
 speed.Mailman-Developers mailing list


Since Django is being used for the web-interface I'm curious about the
implications for the ORM.  Since MM 3.0 is using STORM - do you plan to just
not use the built-in Django ORM and go with STORM - or are you going to wind
up with 2 different database interfaces?

Thanks,
Jen
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Re: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman 3.0 UI Status?

[Kovács Zoltán]

Dear All, do you have some screenshots about the upcoming Mailman3 UI? I
have been Googling for some time but I didn't got appropriate results.

Yours, Zoltan
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Re: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman 3.0 UI Status?

[Stephen J. Turnbull]

Kovács Zoltán writes:

  Dear All, do you have some screenshots about the upcoming Mailman3 UI? I
  have been Googling for some time but I didn't got appropriate results.

If you think screenshots of the UI are important, then Mailman 3 is
not for you, yet.  Please have some patience, it will be coming in a
few weeks I would guess.
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Re: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman 3.0 UI Status?

[Florian Fuchs]

Hi all, 

there are still a few things to do but I'm hopeful I can get things ready over 
the weekend. My goal is to have a simple django skeleton running that talks to 
the rest server in a working MM3-environment. I will update the wiki with info 
on what is where and also outline some of the things we discussed during the 
sprint so everyone interested can get themselves up to speed. 

Cheers
Florian




Am 18.03.2010 um 13:32 schrieb Barry Warsaw:

 On Mar 18, 2010, at 06:32 AM, Patrick Ben Koetter wrote:
 
 The server is up and almost ready to play with. Florian wanted to check a few
 things the other day and ping you offlist on this and that.
 
 Awesome!
 -Barry


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Re: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman 3.0 UI Status?

[Barry Warsaw]

On Mar 19, 2010, at 09:18 AM, Florian Fuchs wrote:

there are still a few things to do but I'm hopeful I can get things ready
over the weekend. My goal is to have a simple django skeleton running that
talks to the rest server in a working MM3-environment. I will update the wiki
with info on what is where and also outline some of the things we discussed
during the sprint so everyone interested can get themselves up to speed.

Sounds great Florian, thanks.  I think once we get the framework going and put
a test server up, we're going to get a lot of folks interested in helping us
flesh out the web ui.  At least I hope so! :)

-Barry


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[Mailman-Developers] Mailman 3.0 UI Status?

[Jennifer Redman]

Hello!

I believe that there was a Code Sprint at  Pycon to work on the MM 3.0 UI
(and other items).  Is there any place I can go to read about what has been
implemented thus far in MM 3.0 and what features are still outstanding with
regards to MM 3.0 and in particular the UI?

Thanks,
Jen
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Re: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman 3.0 UI Status?

[Barry Warsaw]

On Mar 17, 2010, at 03:41 PM, Jennifer Redman wrote:

I believe that there was a Code Sprint at  Pycon to work on the MM 3.0 UI
(and other items).  Is there any place I can go to read about what has been
implemented thus far in MM 3.0 and what features are still outstanding with
regards to MM 3.0 and in particular the UI?

Hi Jen,

We did sprint on the MM3 web ui at Pycon, and I've been meaning to review the
work and publicize it more.  Florian, Jon, and Craig did some good work on
that side while I was reworking the REST infrastructure.

Their branches are here:

https://code.edge.launchpad.net/mailmanweb

We decided to use Django and see how far we could get.  I think the experiment
worked well and I'm inclined to go with Django moving forward.  Perhaps
Florian can speak more about this, where he plans to go and how we can get
more people involved in this effort.  I think he and Patrick were even
considering putting up an experimental server so that we can being to play
with it.

-Barry



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Re: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman 3.0 UI Status?

[Patrick Ben Koetter]

* Barry Warsaw ba...@list.org:
 On Mar 17, 2010, at 03:41 PM, Jennifer Redman wrote:
 
 I believe that there was a Code Sprint at  Pycon to work on the MM 3.0 UI
 (and other items).  Is there any place I can go to read about what has been
 implemented thus far in MM 3.0 and what features are still outstanding with
 regards to MM 3.0 and in particular the UI?
 
 Hi Jen,
 
 We did sprint on the MM3 web ui at Pycon, and I've been meaning to review the
 work and publicize it more.  Florian, Jon, and Craig did some good work on
 that side while I was reworking the REST infrastructure.
 
 Their branches are here:
 
 https://code.edge.launchpad.net/mailmanweb
 
 We decided to use Django and see how far we could get.  I think the experiment
 worked well and I'm inclined to go with Django moving forward.  Perhaps
 Florian can speak more about this, where he plans to go and how we can get
 more people involved in this effort.  I think he and Patrick were even
 considering putting up an experimental server so that we can being to play
 with it.

The server is up and almost ready to play with. Florian wanted to check a few
things the other day and ping you offlist on this and that.

p...@rick

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Re: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman 3.0 alpha 4

[Ian Eiloart]

--On 29 November 2009 15:01:49 -0500 Barry Warsaw ba...@python.org wrote:


I'm happy to announce the release of Mailman 3.0 alpha 4.



The build instructions in src/mailman/docs/ALPHA.txt say that you can run 
bin/test before they go on to describe configuring mailman. I found I had 
to make a configuration file, and use bin/test -C CONFIGPATH for the 
tests to pass.



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Re: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman 3.0 config_list

[Barry Warsaw]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On Jul 17, 2008, at 5:58 AM, Ian Eiloart wrote:

It looks like config_list isn't working yet in Mailman 3.0, and  
there seems to be quite a lot of work to do to get it working.


In the meantime, how can I configure accept_these_nonmembers for a  
list? I need to  test LMTP qrunner code that uses this value.


I can do an SQL update, which is probably the easiest way to create  
a value, but I'm not sure what the value of the field should be.


Hi Ian,

I'll look into config_list, but in the meantime with_list should  
work.  You should be able to fire that up, change the value, then do  
config.db.commit() to save your changes.


- -Barry

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Re: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman 3.0 config_list

[Barry Warsaw]

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On Jul 18, 2008, at 9:06 AM, Barry Warsaw wrote:


On Jul 17, 2008, at 5:58 AM, Ian Eiloart wrote:

It looks like config_list isn't working yet in Mailman 3.0, and  
there seems to be quite a lot of work to do to get it working.


In the meantime, how can I configure accept_these_nonmembers for a  
list? I need to  test LMTP qrunner code that uses this value.


I can do an SQL update, which is probably the easiest way to create  
a value, but I'm not sure what the value of the field should be.


I'll look into config_list, but in the meantime with_list should  
work.  You should be able to fire that up, change the value, then do  
config.db.commit() to save your changes.


BTW, I opened bug 249855 on this.

https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/249855

- -Barry

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[Mailman-Developers] Mailman 3.0 config_list

[Ian Eiloart]

Hi,

It looks like config_list isn't working yet in Mailman 3.0, and there seems 
to be quite a lot of work to do to get it working.


In the meantime, how can I configure accept_these_nonmembers for a list? I 
need to  test LMTP qrunner code that uses this value.


I can do an SQL update, which is probably the easiest way to create a 
value, but I'm not sure what the value of the field should be.


--
Ian Eiloart
IT Services, University of Sussex
x3148
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[Mailman-Developers] Mailman 3.0

[Jeff Fisher]

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Hey guys,

Is there publically accessible code for Mailman 3.0 anywhere? I took a
look on SF using their CVS web browser and all I saw was a readme for 3.0.
Jeff

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