Re: [Marxism] A note on the Spartacist Tendency
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * -- Forwarded message -- From: David Thorstad bin...@gvtel.com Date: Fri, Feb 13, 2015 at 4:12 PM Subject: on the Sparts To: Guys, I have followed the utterly sectarian and distorted exchanges on Proyect's list about the Spartacists. I find everything you and others have posted tendentious and foolish and smug. Sure, the Sparts are sectarian, but have you ever met anyone more sectarian than Louis Proyect himself? I haven't. A few years ago, I met Frank Fried (recently deceased and praised by Proyect on his list), and when I asked Frank if he was on Marxmail, he said no. Why? Because, he claimed, Proyect was too sectarian. At the time, I didn't get his point, but subsequently this became all to obvious. Whatever faults the Spartacists might have, I can say that as a former prominent leader of the gay movement in New York City, even though the Sparts never participated in any of our actions, their positions on sexual freedom are miles ahead of any other leftist group I have ever known. I don't agree with them on everything (e.g., they support gay marriage, even while pointing out the reactionary nature of marriage in general, whereas I am against all marriage, including same-sex marriage--a middle- and upper-class issue if ever there was one). Proyect's list has become more and more vapid and useless, and the silly exchanges on the Spartacists are the latest example of idiotic and uninformed navel gazing. David Ken Hiebert replies: It is worth noting that two people, myself and Joseph Catron, have offered links to the writings of the Spartacists as a way of understanding their politics. While Thorstad praises their ...positions on sexual freedom..., he does not cite any article that would allow us to see this for ourselves. He does say that ...the Sparts never participated in any of our actions,... Never. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] A Note on the Spartacist Tendency
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * The appended pamphlet, /The Road to Jimstown /(c. 1985), is the most memorable piece of literiture produced by the International Bolshevik Tendency, a split off from the Spartacist League. (I belonged to the IBT for ten years.) Its subject is the degeneration of the Spartacist internal regime, as opposed to its politics. More than simply an indictment of the cult of Spartacist founder/leader James Robertson, it's the best expose I've ever read of the methods of internal control employed not only by leftwing cults, but by cults in general. It makes a good read, even for dedicated non-sectarians http://www.bolshevik.org/ETB/Rtj.html Jim Creegan _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] A Note on the Spartacist Tendency
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * Thank you Jim. Helps explain encounters with SL in the late 60s onward, then ET/BT/IBT in the 80s onward in occasional brief residence, frequent sojourns and visits to the CA bay area. Sad, sort-of-embarassing commentary on not-so-unusual experiences on the left; appreciate the Cannon quote at the end. Revealing about the nature of much of the U.S.(English-speaking?) left of the latter 70s onward, about SL and also about the ET (to become IBT). I think that this excerpt from the wikipedia entry on the Spartacist League explains the main reason for the widespread derision of SL among activists/the left: In the United States, the group is small, but very vocal, and its activities within leftist-activist coalitions and wide-scale social justice protest movements usually focus on trying to portray themselves as the most authentically communist group present at that activity. In response, most comparable radical left groupings specifically deride the Sparts, by name, as being a nuisance... as i recall this thread started with a question about 'why the widepread derision of the SL'? i've used up more than my available time in reading the long article, i don't have time to search online or in my memory (i'm sure i've forgotten way more than i 'know') - what is Healy's lie that is referred to as the point of rupture w/in RT of early 60s that led to differentiation between SL and WL in the U.S.? On Sat, Feb 14, 2015 at 8:59 AM, James Creegan via Marxism marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu wrote: POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * The appended pamphlet, /The Road to Jimstown /(c. 1985), is the most memorable piece of literiture produced by the International Bolshevik Tendency, a split off from the Spartacist League. (I belonged to the IBT for ten years.) Its subject is the degeneration of the Spartacist internal regime, as opposed to its politics. More than simply an indictment of the cult of Spartacist founder/leader James Robertson, it's the best expose I've ever read of the methods of internal control employed not only by leftwing cults, but by cults in general. It makes a good read, even for dedicated non-sectarians http://www.bolshevik.org/ETB/Rtj.html Jim Creegan _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/daynegoodwin%40gmail.com _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] A Note on the Spartacist Tendency
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * The abrasive, hectoring style of Spartacist interventions was (is) almost designed to repel even those who may be inclined to agree with the content of what they have to say. It originates in part from the personal style of Robertson himself. But, more than that, it is a way to seal the membership off from the rest of the left, and cement their loyalty to the group and its leader. The problem the SL ran into in the 80s is that they at that time developed differences with the rest of the left--over Iran, Afghanistan and Poland--that were more profound than ever before, and in which a raised volume may have been appropriate. But their tone had already escalated to the point where it was impossible to sharpen it any further. They were a Trotskyist version of the boy who cried wolf. As for the Healy thing, it's a little more complicated than a simple lie. When the progenitor to the SL, the Revolutionary Tendency (RT), first formed within the SWP, it adhered to Healy's grouping within international Trotskyism. Healy, however, had a hard time dealing with the Cuban Revolution. His reasoning went something like this: petty bourgeois (supposedly according to Trotsky) could never lead a social revolution; Castro's 26th of July movement were petty bourgeois; hence, no revolution had taken place in Cuba; it was still ruled by the bourgeoisie in the form of some kind of latter-day popular front. The leaders of the RT--Robertson, Mage and Wohlforth--pointed out that the Cuban bourgeoisie would have a hard time ruling the island from Miami, where they had lately taken up residence. These differences came to a head at a conference in London in 1963. The leaders of the RT came to the conference arguing that they could go no further in the SWP, and it was therefore time to make their exit. There was also a discussion scheduled on the Cuba question. Robertson, however, did not appear at the session set aside for this discussion.( He said he wasn't feeling well. Knowing him, I''d say this was probably true, but that his unwellness likely had something to do with substances ingested the night before.) Instead, the presentation of the RT's views was delegated to Joseph Seymour, a precocious young intellectual. Healy made an big to-do of this, thundering that the absence of the top man in their delegation was rude, as well as a symptom of American arrogance, and demanded an abject apology. Maybe Robertson had been a little careless, but the RT delegation concluded (correctly, in IMO) that Healy was using the incident as a pretext for breaking the RT and exacting its obedience. They refused to apologize. Their impression of Healy was further confirmed when he ordered the RT not to leave the SWP, as planned, but to stay in and orient towards its proletarian core (sheer nonsense, and yet another obedience test). Robertson refused Healy's orders, but Wohlforth didn't, and (dishonestly, in Robertson's view) sided with Healy. Hence, the birth of Amarica's two orthodox Trotskyist currents in the 60s: the Spartacist League and the Workers League (now the Socialist Equality Party, which produces the World Socialist Website). Jim -Original Message- From: Dayne Goodwin daynegood...@gmail.com To: James Creegan turb...@aol.com; Activists and scholars in Marxist tradition marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Sent: Sat, Feb 14, 2015 1:56 pm Subject: Re: [Marxism] A Note on the Spartacist Tendency Thank you Jim. Helps explain encounters with SL in the late 60s onward, then ET/BT/IBT in the 80s onward in occasional brief residence, frequent sojourns and visits to the CA bay area. Sad, sort-of-embarassing commentary on not-so-unusual experiences on the left; appreciate the Cannon quote at the end. Revealing about the nature of much of the U.S.(English-speaking?) left of the latter 70s onward, about SL and also about the ET (to become IBT). I think that this excerpt from the wikipedia entry on the Spartacist League explains the main reason for the widespread derision of SL among activists/the left: In the United States, the group is small, but very vocal, and its activities within leftist-activist coalitions and wide-scale social justice protest movements usually focus on trying to portray themselves as the most authentically communist group present at that activity. In response, most comparable radical left groupings specifically deride the Sparts, by name, as being a nuisance... as i recall this thread started with a question about 'why the widepread derision of the SL'? i've used up more than my available time in reading the long article, i don't have time to search online or in my memory (i'm sure i've forgotten
Re: [Marxism] A note on the Spartacist Tendency
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * FYI, this co-founder of NAMBLA feels we've all been terribly unfair to the poor Sparts. -- Forwarded message -- From: David Thorstad bin...@gvtel.com Date: Fri, Feb 13, 2015 at 4:12 PM Subject: on the Sparts To: Guys, I have followed the utterly sectarian and distorted exchanges on Proyect's list about the Spartacists. I find everything you and others have posted tendentious and foolish and smug. Sure, the Sparts are sectarian, but have you ever met anyone more sectarian than Louis Proyect himself? I haven't. A few years ago, I met Frank Fried (recently deceased and praised by Proyect on his list), and when I asked Frank if he was on Marxmail, he said no. Why? Because, he claimed, Proyect was too sectarian. At the time, I didn't get his point, but subsequently this became all to obvious. Whatever faults the Spartacists might have, I can say that as a former prominent leader of the gay movement in New York City, even though the Sparts never participated in any of our actions, their positions on sexual freedom are miles ahead of any other leftist group I have ever known. I don't agree with them on everything (e.g., they support gay marriage, even while pointing out the reactionary nature of marriage in general, whereas I am against all marriage, including same-sex marriage--a middle- and upper-class issue if ever there was one). Proyect's list has become more and more vapid and useless, and the silly exchanges on the Spartacists are the latest example of idiotic and uninformed navel gazing. David On Fri, Feb 13, 2015 at 3:55 PM, Joseph Catron jncat...@gmail.com wrote: They have a real issue with rape. If there's ever been one they were unwilling to defend, I didn't hear about it. -- Hige sceal þe heardra, heorte þe cenre, mod sceal þe mare, þe ure mægen lytlað. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] A note on the Spartacist Tendency
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * I generally agree with David, at least in the sense that there was no substantial analysis of the Spartacist League, instead somewhat flippant dismissals. Was that unfair? maybe so, who has the time and interest to try to seriously describe and explain the nature and course of the Spartacist League (and the ICL,FI). i'm in favor of an ecumenical attitude of solidarity toward all those who have made choices to primarily devote their lives to working for social change 'in the Marxist tradition.' That certainly includes David Thorstad. Glad to see that David is reading marxmail. On Fri, Feb 13, 2015 at 10:15 PM, Joseph Catron via Marxism marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu wrote: POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * FYI, this co-founder of NAMBLA feels we've all been terribly unfair to the poor Sparts. -- Forwarded message -- From: David Thorstad bin...@gvtel.com Date: Fri, Feb 13, 2015 at 4:12 PM Subject: on the Sparts To: Guys, I have followed the utterly sectarian and distorted exchanges on Proyect's list about the Spartacists. I find everything you and others have posted tendentious and foolish and smug. Sure, the Sparts are sectarian, but have you ever met anyone more sectarian than Louis Proyect himself? I haven't. A few years ago, I met Frank Fried (recently deceased and praised by Proyect on his list), and when I asked Frank if he was on Marxmail, he said no. Why? Because, he claimed, Proyect was too sectarian. At the time, I didn't get his point, but subsequently this became all to obvious. Whatever faults the Spartacists might have, I can say that as a former prominent leader of the gay movement in New York City, even though the Sparts never participated in any of our actions, their positions on sexual freedom are miles ahead of any other leftist group I have ever known. I don't agree with them on everything (e.g., they support gay marriage, even while pointing out the reactionary nature of marriage in general, whereas I am against all marriage, including same-sex marriage--a middle- and upper-class issue if ever there was one). Proyect's list has become more and more vapid and useless, and the silly exchanges on the Spartacists are the latest example of idiotic and uninformed navel gazing. David On Fri, Feb 13, 2015 at 3:55 PM, Joseph Catron jncat...@gmail.com wrote: They have a real issue with rape. If there's ever been one they were unwilling to defend, I didn't hear about it. -- Hige sceal þe heardra, heorte þe cenre, mod sceal þe mare, þe ure mægen lytlað. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/daynegoodwin%40gmail.com _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] A note on the Spartacist Tendency
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * On 12/02/2015 07:44 πμ, Ken Hiebert via Marxism wrote: One of the websites I follow is that of the Spartacist Tendency. http://www.icl-fi.org/index.html I thought I would checkout their various publications. Greece - no apparent publication, but a mailing address and a phone number. I'm not sure what is happening, but advertising regular publications and then not keeping to schedule can only undermine their credibility. ken h _ I have neither heard of a real person in Greece belonging to their greek section, nor seen any political declaration from their part circulating around. In their very minimalistic web site (http://www.icl-fi.org/greek/), only 16 announcements since 2004 are to be found. Two of them are calling for a vote for KKE on 2012 and 2015 elections respectively. Although their texts have an up to date documentation, yet to be found on the web, they are written in a somehow peculiar greek language: not wrong, but in greece we wouldn't say it that way. As if their author wouldn't be a really native greek speaking : Perhaps someone of greek origin without living linguistic connections to Greece...or maybe just a very bad translation from an english(?) text. Politically, support for KKE while hurling that Crimea is Russian is definitely not a good combination! JA _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] A note on the Spartacist Tendency
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * Amith said: I have heard of this group for years. What are their politics and why are they so widely viewed as nutjobs? This is decades old, but you might find it useful. ken h https://www.marxists.org/history/etol/document/swp-us/education/SWP%201977%20Bob%20P%20-%20SL%20-%20Making%20of%20an%20American%20Sect.pdf _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] A note on the Spartacist Tendency
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In Australia, they are very small and are an annoyance and/or joke. They
play no role in anything at all, and criticise and condemn anything anyone
does -- my experience of them at picket lines is simply them walking up and
down trying to force their newspaper on every person while denouncing the
union, and this a left union.
They actually suffered a split -- of one -- a few years back after one
member actually wanted to put their rhetoric about opposing police violence
against Aboriginal people into practice and... *organise a demonstration*.
Such capitulation to petty-bourgeois reformism was unheard of for a Spart,
and so the member, who went on to form The Trotskyist Platform, was roundly
denounced for appealing to petty bourgeois radicals. Seriously.
He called the rally, and invited pretty broad array of speakers, for 11am
on a weekday, so this was used as evidence about the social layers he was
appealing to... which was quite clearly NOT the organised working class!
Of course, it is pretty common for protests of the Aboriginal community to
occur during the day time given the huge disenfranchisment of the community
means the unemployment rate is very high. Leave alone the fact the rally
was only ever going to attract a few dozen people -- or maybe 100 at most.
Not that there is anything wrong with that -- that was a 100 people who
wouldn't have been at a protest unless this guy had gone out and organised
it, but it was, for the Sparts, a damning example of capitulation to social
opportunism. And you know, of course, that was the exact language used...
The main thing the Sparts do is come up to you at rallies and try to get
you to get a copy of their paper by denouncing some reformist sell-out of
the organisation you are in. I once tried to get myself quoted int he Spart
paper as a self-confessed reformist.
There were terrible floods in Queensland in 2011 (I think?) in which state
assistance to deal with it was badly needed and the Socialist Alliance
called for Australian troops to be withdrawn from Afghanistan and sent to
the flood zones to help people instead, which was denounced as a reformist
strengthening of the capitalist state.
I tried to tell the Spart I that I *agreed* it was reformist and that I was
in fact a proud reformist and that he could even quote me in his paper on
it. I wanted to give him my name and everything. But the just stalked off
muttering but we already know you are!
I was disappointed, as it would have made my life to be quoted in the Spart
paper confessing to reformism, but on the plus side, I have been mostly
left alone by them at rallies since.
Stuart
On 13 February 2015 at 11:59, A.R. G via Marxism
marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu wrote:
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They used to show up at Bard College and distribute newspapers. They seemed
like a standard left group to me. And no, that isn't a compliment.
- Amith
On Thu, Feb 12, 2015 at 6:43 PM, Louis Proyect via Marxism
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On 2/12/15 6:27 PM, Einde O'Callaghan via Marxism wrote:
One of their endearing tactics that I experienced several times was
heckling speakers and generally disrupting other groups' meetings until
they were physically ejected and then organising petitions against the
use
of violence in the workers' movement!
20 years ago they were more influential, to be more generous to them
than they deserve. Doug Henwood touted their newspaper as did Alexander
Cockburn. But they were ultimately up against a sea change that was
taking
place in the post-Soviet where the whole Soviet mystique had lost its
attraction. Their whole stance was based on defending the Soviet Union,
which meant supporting the invasion of Afghanistan. There's a residue of
that in their perverse backing of the KKE in Greece. To a large extent,
there's a large element of contrarianism in their politics. Like Spiked
Online but more in an ultraleft direction. I doubt that they have much
purpose today except intervening at a mass
Re: [Marxism] A note on the Spartacist Tendency
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * On 2/12/15 6:27 PM, Einde O'Callaghan via Marxism wrote: One of their endearing tactics that I experienced several times was heckling speakers and generally disrupting other groups' meetings until they were physically ejected and then organising petitions against the use of violence in the workers' movement! 20 years ago they were more influential, to be more generous to them than they deserve. Doug Henwood touted their newspaper as did Alexander Cockburn. But they were ultimately up against a sea change that was taking place in the post-Soviet where the whole Soviet mystique had lost its attraction. Their whole stance was based on defending the Soviet Union, which meant supporting the invasion of Afghanistan. There's a residue of that in their perverse backing of the KKE in Greece. To a large extent, there's a large element of contrarianism in their politics. Like Spiked Online but more in an ultraleft direction. I doubt that they have much purpose today except intervening at a mass meeting on Syriza, etc., which I suppose is all they need to keep going. Rather thin fare if you ask me. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] A note on the Spartacist Tendency
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * Pro Isis. Pro Russia's assault on and invasion of Ukraine. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] A note on the Spartacist Tendency
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * Easy, both are anti-imperialist Original Message- From: A.R. G via Marxism How does one create a narrative structure in which they can support both ISIS and Putin what is this I don't even _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] A note on the Spartacist Tendency
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * Sent from my Sony Xperia™ smartphone A.R. G via Marxism wrote I have heard of this group for years. What are their politics and why are they so widely viewed as nutjobs? One of their endearing tactics that I experienced several times was heckling speakers and generally disrupting other groups' meetings until they were physically ejected and then organising petitions against the use of violence in the workers' movement! Einde O'Callaghan _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] A note on the Spartacist Tendency
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * I definitely feel that its publications available to read would risk doing far more damage the Spartacist Tendency than if not. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] A note on the Spartacist Tendency
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * On 12.02.2015 06:44, Ken Hiebert via Marxism wrote: I'm not sure what is happening, but advertising regular publications and then not keeping to schedule can only undermine their credibility. What credibility? Einde O'Callaghan _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] A note on the Spartacist Tendency
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * Those who are interested can see their publications over the years. https://www.marxists.org/history/etol/newspape/spartacist-us/ https://www.marxists.org/history/etol/newspape/workersvanguard/index.htm For a time they loomed large on our horizon, with a lot of their energy going into attacking and exposing other far left groups. I have seen them show up to a forum with a camera, ready to record whatever incident would take place. Some sects can go on for a long time. But they are not indestructible. ken h _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] A note on the Spartacist Tendency
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According to their website at http://www.icl-fi.org/index.html they are
still having public events in the California Bay Area, Los Angeles, Chicago
and New York; also in Toronto, Vancouver, Sydney, Mexico City and Berlin.
Assuming i'm still around, it will be interesting to see if the Spartacist
League outlives its founding leader James Robertson. One of Robertson's
closest comrades in the initial years ('til about 1968) was Shane Mage.
On Thu, Feb 12, 2015 at 8:18 PM, Ken Hiebert via Marxism
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Those who are interested can see their publications over the years.
https://www.marxists.org/history/etol/newspape/spartacist-us/
https://www.marxists.org/history/etol/newspape/workersvanguard/index.htm
For a time they loomed large on our horizon, with a lot of their energy
going into attacking and exposing other far left groups. I have seen
them show up to a forum with a camera, ready to record whatever incident
would take place.
Some sects can go on for a long time. But they are not indestructible.
ken h
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Re: [Marxism] A note on the Spartacist Tendency
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * I have heard of this group for years. What are their politics and why are they so widely viewed as nutjobs? - Amith On Thu, Feb 12, 2015 at 3:12 PM, ioannis aposperites via Marxism marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu wrote: POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * On 12/02/2015 07:44 πμ, Ken Hiebert via Marxism wrote: One of the websites I follow is that of the Spartacist Tendency. http://www.icl-fi.org/index.html I thought I would checkout their various publications. Greece - no apparent publication, but a mailing address and a phone number. I'm not sure what is happening, but advertising regular publications and then not keeping to schedule can only undermine their credibility. ken h _ I have neither heard of a real person in Greece belonging to their greek section, nor seen any political declaration from their part circulating around. In their very minimalistic web site (http://www.icl-fi.org/greek/), only 16 announcements since 2004 are to be found. Two of them are calling for a vote for KKE on 2012 and 2015 elections respectively. Although their texts have an up to date documentation, yet to be found on the web, they are written in a somehow peculiar greek language: not wrong, but in greece we wouldn't say it that way. As if their author wouldn't be a really native greek speaking : Perhaps someone of greek origin without living linguistic connections to Greece...or maybe just a very bad translation from an english(?) text. Politically, support for KKE while hurling that Crimea is Russian is definitely not a good combination! JA _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/ options/marxism/amithrgupta%40gmail.com _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
