Re: Semi-OT: Maybe getting a new laptop?

[Steve Cottrell]

On 27/5/17, John, discombobulated, unleashed:

>I may bite the bullet and
>buy a MacBook.

Have you considered one from the Apple Refurb Store? Worth searching out
- they are guaranteed as the new ones and savings are generally good
over brand new. I've bought Apple Refurb a few times (iPad Minis). Great
value.

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Re: Semi-OT: Maybe getting a new laptop?

[Steve Cottrell]

If I may hold up a flag for actually cost-effective Macs?

I bought my 2012 MacBook Pro about 3 years ago, used. No warranty. I
paid half the brand new price and I have been using it professionally
ever since editing video for broadcast news, as well as all the other
stuff that we need computers for and it has not skipped a beat. If it
does, I expect I might need to replace the motherboard at some point.

All I've ever done is replace the HD with a 250 GB SSD and maxed out the RAM.

I run 10.8.5 and all my stuff just works.

I can't afford top dollar for new computers either - so value for money
is important for me.

And althought I *used* to be a bit of an Apple fanboy, no longer. I
tossed my iPhone 6 a year ago for a BlackBerry Classic and not looked
back. Would love a BB KEYone but too expensive for now...

HTH

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Re: Semi-OT: Maybe getting a new laptop?

[John]

On 5/28/2017 11:49, Henk Terhell wrote:

I would think it is cheaper and safer to buy a new Windows 10 PC than a
linux PC with comparable performance. Then install linux on a partition
if you like and keep your Photoshop on Windows10.


The problem with that is the computer would then be infected with
Windoze 10. My prior Windoze 10 experience pissed me off & I refuse to
have it on my computer.

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Re: Semi-OT: Maybe getting a new laptop?

[Henk Terhell]

I would think it is cheaper and safer to buy a new Windows 10 PC than a 
linux PC with comparable performance. Then install linux on a partition 
if you like and keep your Photoshop on Windows10.
I have a couple of older desktops and a laptop which are solely running 
linux distros (Debian, Xubuntu, Lubuntu Mint etc.) for all sorts of 
programs and for backup.

Using linux with its great inventory of free programs can be much fun.
But I still prefer RAW conversion in Lightroom on a decent i7 desktop 
with W10.


Henk

Op 2017-05-27 om 16:09 schreef John:

Haven't needed to use my current laptop since last October. I got it out
to make sure I had all the Windoze 7 security updates installed before I
head off to Grandfather Mountain next weekend.

Things ain't looking so good. I got a BSD 01a the first time I tried to
run the update. Second time ended with an Update Failure w/unidentified
error.

Third time I've got it checking for updates to see if maybe there are
some I need to install first ...

It's been running the "Checking for Updates" for about 2 hours now.

The laptop is about 10 years old IIRC. Toshiba A205. I still like it a
lot, it has 2 Hard-drives - 500GB & 1TB - and a DVDRW Optical drive.
Don't think I'm going to find that in a new laptop. AND because it's a
WINDOZE computer (Win 7 Pro 64bit) it will run PhotoshopCS5 - maybe not
great with just 4GB RAM & only 3.5GB of that usable, but it does run.

Trying to "upgrade" to Windoze 10 was such a disaster I refuse to have
it on any computer I own, and the price for a MacBook Pro is so
outrageously expensive to get the one I'd want is just too much pain.

So I'm thinking about a Linux laptop. Which means either GIMP for image
editing or trying to run PhotoShop on WINE.

I know there are some Linux users here, maybe even a Guru or two.

Anyone using GIMP recently? Or running PhotoShop using WINE?

Or is there another way?

Help!




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Re: Semi-OT: Maybe getting a new laptop?

[Rick Womer]

I bought my current MBP in January 2009. I've replaced the battery 3 times,
switched from a spinny HDD to an SSD, and upgraded the OS a few times.
That's it.

It's my only work computer. It's in my backpack when it's not in its
docking station at work or on my desk at home. Zero failures in 9+ years of
heavy use is pretty good.

I had two "heavy duty" HPs and two Toshibas before it, and none made it to
3 1/2 years before irreparably failing.

Rick

On Sun, May 28, 2017 at 03:06 Jostein Øksne  wrote:

> Ah. Roger that.
> Good thing that DVD R/W drives for USB exists...
> Bruce is right about the plethora of options. Most of them will do "the
> job", but I guess price is strongly correlated to lifetime expectancy.
>
> Jostein
>
> Den 27. mai 2017 23.18.06 CEST, skrev John :
> >No. If I have to replace the Toshiba I'm looking for new hardware with
> >Linux already installed.
> >
> >If possible I want to be able to install & run my existing licensed
> >copy
> >of Photoshop CS5 on the new Linux machine.
> >
> >On 5/27/2017 10:26, Jostein wrote:
> >> Hi John,
> >> If I read you right, you exclude Apple on price, and a new Microsoft
> >> machine because of past experience with Win 10.
> >> But this Linux thing... Do you expect to reuse your existing hardware
> >> for that?
> >> Jostein
> >>
> >> Den 27.05.2017 16.09, skrev John:
> >>> Haven't needed to use my current laptop since last October. I got it
> >out
> >>> to make sure I had all the Windoze 7 security updates installed
> >before I
> >>> head off to Grandfather Mountain next weekend.
> >>>
> >>> Things ain't looking so good. I got a BSD 01a the first time I tried
> >to
> >>> run the update. Second time ended with an Update Failure
> >w/unidentified
> >>> error.
> >>>
> >
> >>>
> >>> Help!
> >>>
> >>
>
> --
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>
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Re: Semi-OT: Maybe getting a new laptop?

[Jostein Øksne]

Ah. Roger that. 
Good thing that DVD R/W drives for USB exists... 
Bruce is right about the plethora of options. Most of them will do "the job", 
but I guess price is strongly correlated to lifetime expectancy. 

Jostein 

Den 27. mai 2017 23.18.06 CEST, skrev John :
>No. If I have to replace the Toshiba I'm looking for new hardware with
>Linux already installed.
>
>If possible I want to be able to install & run my existing licensed
>copy
>of Photoshop CS5 on the new Linux machine.
>
>On 5/27/2017 10:26, Jostein wrote:
>> Hi John,
>> If I read you right, you exclude Apple on price, and a new Microsoft
>> machine because of past experience with Win 10.
>> But this Linux thing... Do you expect to reuse your existing hardware
>> for that?
>> Jostein
>>
>> Den 27.05.2017 16.09, skrev John:
>>> Haven't needed to use my current laptop since last October. I got it
>out
>>> to make sure I had all the Windoze 7 security updates installed
>before I
>>> head off to Grandfather Mountain next weekend.
>>>
>>> Things ain't looking so good. I got a BSD 01a the first time I tried
>to
>>> run the update. Second time ended with an Update Failure
>w/unidentified
>>> error.
>>>
>
>>>
>>> Help!
>>>
>>

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Re: Semi-OT: Maybe getting a new laptop?

[Eric Weir]

> On May 27, 2017, at 4:45 PM, Bruce Walker  wrote:
> 
> I have tried to run Linux as a desktop machine and it's a huge
> productivity killer and "world of hurt". I spent more time tweaking
> and twiddling things and trying to find out why stuff I took for
> granted in a supported environment just didn't work. Like colour
> management -- whoa, Nelly!
> 
> The smallest possible things can waste days or even weeks to make
> work. What busy photographer has time for that?

When I had finally had enough of Windows I gave Linux a good try. Got an 
education. But well into the process, after giving one whole month—literally 
the entire month—to trying to get things working smoothly, I threw in the 
towel, splurged on a MacBook, and have not looked back. Crashes on Windows just 
went with the system. They were almost a daily occurrence. In the seven plus 
years—I’m guessing; it is at least that many—neither of the MacBooks I’ve owned 
has ever crashed. I am not wealthy, but in my opinion Macs are worth the price, 
certainly in the lack of frustration. 

--
Eric Weir
Decatur, GA  USA
eew...@bellsouth.net

"Imagining the other is a powerful antidote to fanaticism and hatred." 

- Amos Oz


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Re: Semi-OT: Maybe getting a new laptop?

[Larry Colen]

John wrote:


I may find a Linux laptop that meets my needs. I may bite the bullet and
buy a MacBook.


Note that with WWDC in about a week, it may be prudent to wait a couple 
of weeks to order a new mac, as they might announce new models, lower 
prices on old ones etc.


However, with the current configuration of hardware, some of the older 
macbooks might be better for photography than the current crop.




Or I may end up with another Windoze machine if I can find one that
doesn't have Windoze 10 on it.


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Re: Semi-OT: Maybe getting a new laptop?

[John]

I don't expect EVERYTHING to be pre-configured; just the Operating System.

I'm *BUYING* a package - laptop with OS installed. It doesn't matter
which OS is installed, Windows, OS X or Linux. I expect "up and running"
support. If the vendor doesn't supply that, I'll buy from a vendor who does.

I also know the applications I named - other than the Adobe ones - are
available as native Linux applications, and I don't expect it to be any
more difficult to install them on a Linux machine than it is to install
applications on Windows.

I may find a Linux laptop that meets my needs. I may bite the bullet and
buy a MacBook.

Or I may end up with another Windoze machine if I can find one that
doesn't have Windoze 10 on it.

On 5/27/2017 19:03, Richard Klein wrote:

If you want everything preconfigured and you don't want to do it yourself,
I'm not sure Linux is the best choice for you.

With that said, I think Dell sells computers with Linux preinstalled. I'd
guess it's Red Hat Linux, but I haven't checked.

I use and love Linux. I've also had good luck with Windows. I still own 3
Macs, though I don't use them. None of the operating systems are magic.
They're all pretty good these days, but you can still run into problems
with any of them.

If I were you, I'd give Windows another shot, unless you didn't like the
way it does things when things do work. I'd probably avoid getting another
Toshiba simply because they're having some serious financial problems these
days.

Finally, Clippit the paper clip was never a part of any operating system;
it was part of Office.

On May 27, 2017 5:53 PM, "John"  wrote:


If I have to replace the Toshiba, I'm going to *BUY* a laptop that
already has Linux installed from a vendor that will at least give me "up
& running" support. I'll let them worry about the "distro".

I'm trying to put some thought into it before I start spending my money.

I need a web browser (Firefox). I need an email client (Thunderbird). I
need a media player (VLC). I want some kind of "Office" software, mainly
a word processor & spread sheet, maybe presentations (Open Office, Libre
Office, ... ?). I want a text editor that's as easy to use as Windows
Notepad, and a calculator app as good or better than Windows Calculator.
I want a couple of solitaire games (Freecell & Spider) for when I get
bored.

I'm pretty sure I can find all of those as native applications for Linux
with no problem.

And I need image processing software ... a RAW processor that handles
.DNG files, an image browser with capabilities similar to Adobe Bridge &
an image editing program comparable to Photoshop.

Some way to actually run Photoshop CS5 (with Bridge) would be the
optimum solution, because that's what I'm running on my existing laptop.

And who knows, maybe I'll get the damn updates installed on the Toshiba
& push the problem off into the future.

On 5/27/2017 10:40, Bruce Walker wrote:


If you think that selecting a new camera from scratch is hard -- so
many choices with hundreds of tiny detailed differences between them
-- just wait until you start selecting a Linux distro to run. Heh!
Good luck.

The Gimp is somewhere near Ps CS3 in ability lately. I expect it would
suit you. You still need a raw converter, but there are a few pretty
good ones that run under Linux, so you'll be okay there too.

Don't bet on running Photoshop CS5 under WINE. Check this out:
https://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?iId=17=application

Make sure you get large RAM on your new laptop. 16 Gig or up.


On Sat, May 27, 2017 at 10:09 AM, John  wrote:


Haven't needed to use my current laptop since last October. I got it out
to make sure I had all the Windoze 7 security updates installed before I
head off to Grandfather Mountain next weekend.

Things ain't looking so good. I got a BSD 01a the first time I tried to
run the update. Second time ended with an Update Failure w/unidentified
error.




So I'm thinking about a Linux laptop. Which means either GIMP for image

editing or trying to run PhotoShop on WINE.

I know there are some Linux users here, maybe even a Guru or two.

Anyone using GIMP recently? Or running PhotoShop using WINE?

Or is there another way?

Help!







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Religion - Answers we must never question.

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Re: Semi-OT: Maybe getting a new laptop?

[mike wilson]

Memory upgradeability, for hungry apps, is probably the only real hardware issue
for older appliances.  My Aspire One netbook used to be "make a cup of tea,
properly" slow from a cold start on XP.  Now, it's about 40 seconds from
pressing the button to opening Firefox.

> On 27 May 2017 at 23:46 Jostein Øksne  wrote:
> 
> 
> My primary concern was RAM requirements for WINE... :-) 
> Jostein 
> 
> Den 27. mai 2017 23.09.48 CEST, skrev mike wilson :
> >If it ran W7, it should fly with UBUNTU.  My laptop was sluggish with
> >XP and
> >works just fine under LINUX.
> >
> >> On 27 May 2017 at 15:26 Jostein  wrote:
> >> 
> >> 
> >> Hi John,
> >> If I read you right, you exclude Apple on price, and a new Microsoft 
> >> machine because of past experience with Win 10.
> >> But this Linux thing... Do you expect to reuse your existing hardware
> >
> >> for that?
> >> Jostein
> >> 
> >> Den 27.05.2017 16.09, skrev John:
> >> > Haven't needed to use my current laptop since last October. I got
> >it out
> >> > to make sure I had all the Windoze 7 security updates installed
> >before I
> >> > head off to Grandfather Mountain next weekend.
> >> >
> >> > Things ain't looking so good. I got a BSD 01a the first time I
> >tried to
> >> > run the update. Second time ended with an Update Failure
> >w/unidentified
> >> > error.
> >> >
> >> > Third time I've got it checking for updates to see if maybe there
> >are
> >> > some I need to install first ...
> >> >
> >> > It's been running the "Checking for Updates" for about 2 hours now.
> >> >
> >> > The laptop is about 10 years old IIRC. Toshiba A205. I still like
> >it a
> >> > lot, it has 2 Hard-drives - 500GB & 1TB - and a DVDRW Optical
> >drive.
> >> > Don't think I'm going to find that in a new laptop. AND because
> >it's a
> >> > WINDOZE computer (Win 7 Pro 64bit) it will run PhotoshopCS5 - maybe
> >not
> >> > great with just 4GB RAM & only 3.5GB of that usable, but it does
> >run.
> >> >
> >> > Trying to "upgrade" to Windoze 10 was such a disaster I refuse to
> >have
> >> > it on any computer I own, and the price for a MacBook Pro is so
> >> > outrageously expensive to get the one I'd want is just too much
> >pain.
> >> >
> >> > So I'm thinking about a Linux laptop. Which means either GIMP for
> >image
> >> > editing or trying to run PhotoShop on WINE.
> >> >
> >> > I know there are some Linux users here, maybe even a Guru or two.
> >> >
> >> > Anyone using GIMP recently? Or running PhotoShop using WINE?
> >> >
> >> > Or is there another way?
> >> >
> >> > Help!
> >> >
> >> 
> >> -- 
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Re: Semi-OT: Maybe getting a new laptop?

[Richard Klein]

If you want everything preconfigured and you don't want to do it yourself,
I'm not sure Linux is the best choice for you.

With that said, I think Dell sells computers with Linux preinstalled. I'd
guess it's Red Hat Linux, but I haven't checked.

I use and love Linux. I've also had good luck with Windows. I still own 3
Macs, though I don't use them. None of the operating systems are magic.
They're all pretty good these days, but you can still run into problems
with any of them.

If I were you, I'd give Windows another shot, unless you didn't like the
way it does things when things do work. I'd probably avoid getting another
Toshiba simply because they're having some serious financial problems these
days.

Finally, Clippit the paper clip was never a part of any operating system;
it was part of Office.

On May 27, 2017 5:53 PM, "John"  wrote:

> If I have to replace the Toshiba, I'm going to *BUY* a laptop that
> already has Linux installed from a vendor that will at least give me "up
> & running" support. I'll let them worry about the "distro".
>
> I'm trying to put some thought into it before I start spending my money.
>
> I need a web browser (Firefox). I need an email client (Thunderbird). I
> need a media player (VLC). I want some kind of "Office" software, mainly
> a word processor & spread sheet, maybe presentations (Open Office, Libre
> Office, ... ?). I want a text editor that's as easy to use as Windows
> Notepad, and a calculator app as good or better than Windows Calculator.
> I want a couple of solitaire games (Freecell & Spider) for when I get
> bored.
>
> I'm pretty sure I can find all of those as native applications for Linux
> with no problem.
>
> And I need image processing software ... a RAW processor that handles
> .DNG files, an image browser with capabilities similar to Adobe Bridge &
> an image editing program comparable to Photoshop.
>
> Some way to actually run Photoshop CS5 (with Bridge) would be the
> optimum solution, because that's what I'm running on my existing laptop.
>
> And who knows, maybe I'll get the damn updates installed on the Toshiba
> & push the problem off into the future.
>
> On 5/27/2017 10:40, Bruce Walker wrote:
>
>> If you think that selecting a new camera from scratch is hard -- so
>> many choices with hundreds of tiny detailed differences between them
>> -- just wait until you start selecting a Linux distro to run. Heh!
>> Good luck.
>>
>> The Gimp is somewhere near Ps CS3 in ability lately. I expect it would
>> suit you. You still need a raw converter, but there are a few pretty
>> good ones that run under Linux, so you'll be okay there too.
>>
>> Don't bet on running Photoshop CS5 under WINE. Check this out:
>> https://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?iId=17=application
>>
>> Make sure you get large RAM on your new laptop. 16 Gig or up.
>>
>>
>> On Sat, May 27, 2017 at 10:09 AM, John  wrote:
>>
>>> Haven't needed to use my current laptop since last October. I got it out
>>> to make sure I had all the Windoze 7 security updates installed before I
>>> head off to Grandfather Mountain next weekend.
>>>
>>> Things ain't looking so good. I got a BSD 01a the first time I tried to
>>> run the update. Second time ended with an Update Failure w/unidentified
>>> error.
>>>
>>>
>
> So I'm thinking about a Linux laptop. Which means either GIMP for image
>>> editing or trying to run PhotoShop on WINE.
>>>
>>> I know there are some Linux users here, maybe even a Guru or two.
>>>
>>> Anyone using GIMP recently? Or running PhotoShop using WINE?
>>>
>>> Or is there another way?
>>>
>>> Help!
>>>
>>>
>
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> Religion - Answers we must never question.
>
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Re: Semi-OT: Maybe getting a new laptop?

[Jostein Øksne]

My primary concern was RAM requirements for WINE... :-) 
Jostein 

Den 27. mai 2017 23.09.48 CEST, skrev mike wilson :
>If it ran W7, it should fly with UBUNTU.  My laptop was sluggish with
>XP and
>works just fine under LINUX.
>
>> On 27 May 2017 at 15:26 Jostein  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Hi John,
>> If I read you right, you exclude Apple on price, and a new Microsoft 
>> machine because of past experience with Win 10.
>> But this Linux thing... Do you expect to reuse your existing hardware
>
>> for that?
>> Jostein
>> 
>> Den 27.05.2017 16.09, skrev John:
>> > Haven't needed to use my current laptop since last October. I got
>it out
>> > to make sure I had all the Windoze 7 security updates installed
>before I
>> > head off to Grandfather Mountain next weekend.
>> >
>> > Things ain't looking so good. I got a BSD 01a the first time I
>tried to
>> > run the update. Second time ended with an Update Failure
>w/unidentified
>> > error.
>> >
>> > Third time I've got it checking for updates to see if maybe there
>are
>> > some I need to install first ...
>> >
>> > It's been running the "Checking for Updates" for about 2 hours now.
>> >
>> > The laptop is about 10 years old IIRC. Toshiba A205. I still like
>it a
>> > lot, it has 2 Hard-drives - 500GB & 1TB - and a DVDRW Optical
>drive.
>> > Don't think I'm going to find that in a new laptop. AND because
>it's a
>> > WINDOZE computer (Win 7 Pro 64bit) it will run PhotoshopCS5 - maybe
>not
>> > great with just 4GB RAM & only 3.5GB of that usable, but it does
>run.
>> >
>> > Trying to "upgrade" to Windoze 10 was such a disaster I refuse to
>have
>> > it on any computer I own, and the price for a MacBook Pro is so
>> > outrageously expensive to get the one I'd want is just too much
>pain.
>> >
>> > So I'm thinking about a Linux laptop. Which means either GIMP for
>image
>> > editing or trying to run PhotoShop on WINE.
>> >
>> > I know there are some Linux users here, maybe even a Guru or two.
>> >
>> > Anyone using GIMP recently? Or running PhotoShop using WINE?
>> >
>> > Or is there another way?
>> >
>> > Help!
>> >
>> 
>> -- 
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>> the directions.

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Re: Semi-OT: Maybe getting a new laptop?

[Larry Colen]

Paul Stenquist wrote:

Cheaper is a valid point. But I can't recall the last time I had a problem with 
my Mac systems. They're pretty much bullet-proof these days.

Most disturbing for me would be trying to control color management workflow for 
printing.


The lack of color management was what brought me from linux to mac, 
however in the intervening 10 years, there is now much more usable color 
management on linux.


https://displaycal.net/
https://help.ubuntu.com/stable/ubuntu-help/color-calibrationdevices.html

I'm still doing my photo processing in lightroom on a mac, but both 
adobe and apple seem to be removing things that I want, and adding 
things I dislike so I've been thinking of possibly switching back at 
sometime.


If I do, I'll be very glad that my workflow uses directories, named for 
the subject matter and date.

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Re: Semi-OT: Maybe getting a new laptop?

[John]

If I have to replace the Toshiba, I'm going to *BUY* a laptop that
already has Linux installed from a vendor that will at least give me "up
& running" support. I'll let them worry about the "distro".

I'm trying to put some thought into it before I start spending my money.

I need a web browser (Firefox). I need an email client (Thunderbird). I
need a media player (VLC). I want some kind of "Office" software, mainly
a word processor & spread sheet, maybe presentations (Open Office, Libre
Office, ... ?). I want a text editor that's as easy to use as Windows
Notepad, and a calculator app as good or better than Windows Calculator.
I want a couple of solitaire games (Freecell & Spider) for when I get
bored.

I'm pretty sure I can find all of those as native applications for Linux
with no problem.

And I need image processing software ... a RAW processor that handles
.DNG files, an image browser with capabilities similar to Adobe Bridge &
an image editing program comparable to Photoshop.

Some way to actually run Photoshop CS5 (with Bridge) would be the
optimum solution, because that's what I'm running on my existing laptop.

And who knows, maybe I'll get the damn updates installed on the Toshiba
& push the problem off into the future.

On 5/27/2017 10:40, Bruce Walker wrote:

If you think that selecting a new camera from scratch is hard -- so
many choices with hundreds of tiny detailed differences between them
-- just wait until you start selecting a Linux distro to run. Heh!
Good luck.

The Gimp is somewhere near Ps CS3 in ability lately. I expect it would
suit you. You still need a raw converter, but there are a few pretty
good ones that run under Linux, so you'll be okay there too.

Don't bet on running Photoshop CS5 under WINE. Check this out:
https://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?iId=17=application

Make sure you get large RAM on your new laptop. 16 Gig or up.


On Sat, May 27, 2017 at 10:09 AM, John  wrote:

Haven't needed to use my current laptop since last October. I got it out
to make sure I had all the Windoze 7 security updates installed before I
head off to Grandfather Mountain next weekend.

Things ain't looking so good. I got a BSD 01a the first time I tried to
run the update. Second time ended with an Update Failure w/unidentified
error.





So I'm thinking about a Linux laptop. Which means either GIMP for image
editing or trying to run PhotoShop on WINE.

I know there are some Linux users here, maybe even a Guru or two.

Anyone using GIMP recently? Or running PhotoShop using WINE?

Or is there another way?

Help!




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Re: Semi-OT: Maybe getting a new laptop?

[Paul Stenquist]

Cheaper is a valid point. But I can't recall the last time I had a problem with 
my Mac systems. They're pretty much bullet-proof these days.

Most disturbing for me would be trying to control color management workflow for 
printing.

Paul via phone

On May 27, 2017, at 5:22 PM, mike wilson  wrote:

>> On 27 May 2017 at 20:17 Paul Stenquist  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Why?
> 
> 1. It's infinite orders of magnitude cheaper. (Not everyone can offset their
> computer-related purchases against tax)
> 2. You get more serious problems with Windows and Apple stuff anyway.  And
> you've paid (mightily) for that.
> 3. It extends the life of hardware significantly, by clogging it up less with
> crap.
> 4. As we're talking about crap, there's much less of the stuff around LINUX
> installations.  Fewer trivial apps; no viruses; no fecking paperclip.
> 5. You don't have to deal (much) with Adobe.  Not at all if you want to be
> hardcore.
> 6. You get to learn stuff.
> 7. It works perfectly well.
> 8. Did I mention that it's free?
> 
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Re: Semi-OT: Maybe getting a new laptop?

[mike wilson]

Pull the drives, stick them on a dock to extract any data that you need.
 Reinstall them and put on your distro.  Put the data back.  Kapow!  A laptop
that will run better than it ever did with W7 for the sum of, Oh! nothing!

The bonus is freeing yourself from the Adobe yoke. 

George Melly said that the bonus from getting old was losing your libido - it
was like being unshackled from a lunatic.  Think of LINUX and Adobe in the same
way.

> On 27 May 2017 at 22:18 John  wrote:
> 
> 
> No. If I have to replace the Toshiba I'm looking for new hardware with
> Linux already installed.
> 
> If possible I want to be able to install & run my existing licensed copy
> of Photoshop CS5 on the new Linux machine.
> 
> On 5/27/2017 10:26, Jostein wrote:
> > Hi John,
> > If I read you right, you exclude Apple on price, and a new Microsoft
> > machine because of past experience with Win 10.
> > But this Linux thing... Do you expect to reuse your existing hardware
> > for that?
> > Jostein
> >
> > Den 27.05.2017 16.09, skrev John:
> >> Haven't needed to use my current laptop since last October. I got it out
> >> to make sure I had all the Windoze 7 security updates installed before I
> >> head off to Grandfather Mountain next weekend.
> >>
> >> Things ain't looking so good. I got a BSD 01a the first time I tried to
> >> run the update. Second time ended with an Update Failure w/unidentified
> >> error.
> >>
> 
> >>
> >> Help!
> >>
> >
> 
> -- 
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> Religion - Answers we must never question.
> 
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Re: Semi-OT: Maybe getting a new laptop?

[mike wilson]

> On 27 May 2017 at 20:17 Paul Stenquist  wrote:
> 
> 
> Why?

1. It's infinite orders of magnitude cheaper. (Not everyone can offset their
computer-related purchases against tax)
2. You get more serious problems with Windows and Apple stuff anyway.  And
you've paid (mightily) for that.
3. It extends the life of hardware significantly, by clogging it up less with
crap.
4. As we're talking about crap, there's much less of the stuff around LINUX
installations.  Fewer trivial apps; no viruses; no fecking paperclip.
5. You don't have to deal (much) with Adobe.  Not at all if you want to be
hardcore.
6. You get to learn stuff.
7. It works perfectly well.
8. Did I mention that it's free?

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Re: Semi-OT: Maybe getting a new laptop?

[John]

No. If I have to replace the Toshiba I'm looking for new hardware with
Linux already installed.

If possible I want to be able to install & run my existing licensed copy
of Photoshop CS5 on the new Linux machine.

On 5/27/2017 10:26, Jostein wrote:

Hi John,
If I read you right, you exclude Apple on price, and a new Microsoft
machine because of past experience with Win 10.
But this Linux thing... Do you expect to reuse your existing hardware
for that?
Jostein

Den 27.05.2017 16.09, skrev John:

Haven't needed to use my current laptop since last October. I got it out
to make sure I had all the Windoze 7 security updates installed before I
head off to Grandfather Mountain next weekend.

Things ain't looking so good. I got a BSD 01a the first time I tried to
run the update. Second time ended with an Update Failure w/unidentified
error.





Help!





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Re: Semi-OT: Maybe getting a new laptop?

[Toralf Lund]

On 27/05/17 16:09, John wrote:

[ .. ]

So I'm thinking about a Linux laptop. Which means either GIMP for image
editing or trying to run PhotoShop on WINE.

I know there are some Linux users here, maybe even a Guru or two.
I mostly use Linux; CentOS 6 and 7 distributions. It's where I do 
development at work, actually. I can't say I like the GNOME 3 desktop of 
the latter version much, but apart from that I'm quite happy with it, 
and there is always MATE (https://mate-desktop.org/)...


Anyone using GIMP recently? Or running PhotoShop using WINE?
Yep. Using GIMP, too. Works for me, but it's been ages since I tried 
PhotoShop, so I'm might not be too helpful if you want to a comparison.


I generally do "raw conversion" in RawTherapee 
(http://www.rawtherapee.com/), and also often adjust colour balance, 
"levels" etc. there. I tend to pre-process in this tool even when 
scanning film. I think it does the job rather well.


- T



Or is there another way?

Help!




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Re: Semi-OT: Maybe getting a new laptop?

[mike wilson]

If it ran W7, it should fly with UBUNTU.  My laptop was sluggish with XP and
works just fine under LINUX.

> On 27 May 2017 at 15:26 Jostein  wrote:
> 
> 
> Hi John,
> If I read you right, you exclude Apple on price, and a new Microsoft 
> machine because of past experience with Win 10.
> But this Linux thing... Do you expect to reuse your existing hardware 
> for that?
> Jostein
> 
> Den 27.05.2017 16.09, skrev John:
> > Haven't needed to use my current laptop since last October. I got it out
> > to make sure I had all the Windoze 7 security updates installed before I
> > head off to Grandfather Mountain next weekend.
> >
> > Things ain't looking so good. I got a BSD 01a the first time I tried to
> > run the update. Second time ended with an Update Failure w/unidentified
> > error.
> >
> > Third time I've got it checking for updates to see if maybe there are
> > some I need to install first ...
> >
> > It's been running the "Checking for Updates" for about 2 hours now.
> >
> > The laptop is about 10 years old IIRC. Toshiba A205. I still like it a
> > lot, it has 2 Hard-drives - 500GB & 1TB - and a DVDRW Optical drive.
> > Don't think I'm going to find that in a new laptop. AND because it's a
> > WINDOZE computer (Win 7 Pro 64bit) it will run PhotoshopCS5 - maybe not
> > great with just 4GB RAM & only 3.5GB of that usable, but it does run.
> >
> > Trying to "upgrade" to Windoze 10 was such a disaster I refuse to have
> > it on any computer I own, and the price for a MacBook Pro is so
> > outrageously expensive to get the one I'd want is just too much pain.
> >
> > So I'm thinking about a Linux laptop. Which means either GIMP for image
> > editing or trying to run PhotoShop on WINE.
> >
> > I know there are some Linux users here, maybe even a Guru or two.
> >
> > Anyone using GIMP recently? Or running PhotoShop using WINE?
> >
> > Or is there another way?
> >
> > Help!
> >
> 
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Re: Semi-OT: Maybe getting a new laptop?

[Bruce Walker]

I agree, Paul. That's why as a photographer, I use a Mac for all my
computing needs.

I have tried to run Linux as a desktop machine and it's a huge
productivity killer and "world of hurt". I spent more time tweaking
and twiddling things and trying to find out why stuff I took for
granted in a supported environment just didn't work. Like colour
management -- whoa, Nelly!

The smallest possible things can waste days or even weeks to make
work. What busy photographer has time for that?

Even Windows is a better solution.  :)


On Sat, May 27, 2017 at 3:17 PM, Paul Stenquist  wrote:
> The only way I'd get a Linux laptop would be if they were giving them away. 
> Why deal with the below outlined difficulties. I guess it's good choice for 
> an open source developer, but I would think it's an awful choice for a 
> photographer.
>
> Paul via phone
>
>> On May 27, 2017, at 12:12 PM, Larry Colen  wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> John wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> So I'm thinking about a Linux laptop. Which means either GIMP for image
>>> editing or trying to run PhotoShop on WINE.
>>
>> There is also Corel aftershot, which used to be known as Bibble pro.
>> Also, someone just posted a link to rawtherapee.
>>
>>>
>>> I know there are some Linux users here, maybe even a Guru or two.
>>>
>>> Anyone using GIMP recently? Or running PhotoShop using WINE?
>>>
>>> Or is there another way?
>>>
>>> Help!
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Larry Colen  l...@red4est.com (postbox on min4est) http://red4est.com/lrc
>>
>>
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Re: Semi-OT: Maybe getting a new laptop?

[Paul Stenquist]

The only way I'd get a Linux laptop would be if they were giving them away. Why 
deal with the below outlined difficulties. I guess it's good choice for an open 
source developer, but I would think it's an awful choice for a photographer.

Paul via phone

> On May 27, 2017, at 12:12 PM, Larry Colen  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> John wrote:
> 
>> 
>> So I'm thinking about a Linux laptop. Which means either GIMP for image
>> editing or trying to run PhotoShop on WINE.
> 
> There is also Corel aftershot, which used to be known as Bibble pro.
> Also, someone just posted a link to rawtherapee.
> 
>> 
>> I know there are some Linux users here, maybe even a Guru or two.
>> 
>> Anyone using GIMP recently? Or running PhotoShop using WINE?
>> 
>> Or is there another way?
>> 
>> Help!
>> 
> 
> -- 
> Larry Colen  l...@red4est.com (postbox on min4est) http://red4est.com/lrc
> 
> 
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Re: Semi-OT: Maybe getting a new laptop?

[Larry Colen]

John wrote:



So I'm thinking about a Linux laptop. Which means either GIMP for image
editing or trying to run PhotoShop on WINE.


There is also Corel aftershot, which used to be known as Bibble pro.
Also, someone just posted a link to rawtherapee.



I know there are some Linux users here, maybe even a Guru or two.

Anyone using GIMP recently? Or running PhotoShop using WINE?

Or is there another way?

Help!



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Re: Semi-OT: Maybe getting a new laptop?

[Bruce Walker]

If you think that selecting a new camera from scratch is hard -- so
many choices with hundreds of tiny detailed differences between them
-- just wait until you start selecting a Linux distro to run. Heh!
Good luck.

The Gimp is somewhere near Ps CS3 in ability lately. I expect it would
suit you. You still need a raw converter, but there are a few pretty
good ones that run under Linux, so you'll be okay there too.

Don't bet on running Photoshop CS5 under WINE. Check this out:
https://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?iId=17=application

Make sure you get large RAM on your new laptop. 16 Gig or up.


On Sat, May 27, 2017 at 10:09 AM, John  wrote:
> Haven't needed to use my current laptop since last October. I got it out
> to make sure I had all the Windoze 7 security updates installed before I
> head off to Grandfather Mountain next weekend.
>
> Things ain't looking so good. I got a BSD 01a the first time I tried to
> run the update. Second time ended with an Update Failure w/unidentified
> error.
>
> Third time I've got it checking for updates to see if maybe there are
> some I need to install first ...
>
> It's been running the "Checking for Updates" for about 2 hours now.
>
> The laptop is about 10 years old IIRC. Toshiba A205. I still like it a
> lot, it has 2 Hard-drives - 500GB & 1TB - and a DVDRW Optical drive.
> Don't think I'm going to find that in a new laptop. AND because it's a
> WINDOZE computer (Win 7 Pro 64bit) it will run PhotoshopCS5 - maybe not
> great with just 4GB RAM & only 3.5GB of that usable, but it does run.
>
> Trying to "upgrade" to Windoze 10 was such a disaster I refuse to have
> it on any computer I own, and the price for a MacBook Pro is so
> outrageously expensive to get the one I'd want is just too much pain.
>
> So I'm thinking about a Linux laptop. Which means either GIMP for image
> editing or trying to run PhotoShop on WINE.
>
> I know there are some Linux users here, maybe even a Guru or two.
>
> Anyone using GIMP recently? Or running PhotoShop using WINE?
>
> Or is there another way?
>
> Help!
>
> --
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> Religion - Answers we must never question.
>
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Re: Semi-OT: Maybe getting a new laptop?

[Jostein]

Hi John,
If I read you right, you exclude Apple on price, and a new Microsoft 
machine because of past experience with Win 10.
But this Linux thing... Do you expect to reuse your existing hardware 
for that?

Jostein

Den 27.05.2017 16.09, skrev John:

Haven't needed to use my current laptop since last October. I got it out
to make sure I had all the Windoze 7 security updates installed before I
head off to Grandfather Mountain next weekend.

Things ain't looking so good. I got a BSD 01a the first time I tried to
run the update. Second time ended with an Update Failure w/unidentified
error.

Third time I've got it checking for updates to see if maybe there are
some I need to install first ...

It's been running the "Checking for Updates" for about 2 hours now.

The laptop is about 10 years old IIRC. Toshiba A205. I still like it a
lot, it has 2 Hard-drives - 500GB & 1TB - and a DVDRW Optical drive.
Don't think I'm going to find that in a new laptop. AND because it's a
WINDOZE computer (Win 7 Pro 64bit) it will run PhotoshopCS5 - maybe not
great with just 4GB RAM & only 3.5GB of that usable, but it does run.

Trying to "upgrade" to Windoze 10 was such a disaster I refuse to have
it on any computer I own, and the price for a MacBook Pro is so
outrageously expensive to get the one I'd want is just too much pain.

So I'm thinking about a Linux laptop. Which means either GIMP for image
editing or trying to run PhotoShop on WINE.

I know there are some Linux users here, maybe even a Guru or two.

Anyone using GIMP recently? Or running PhotoShop using WINE?

Or is there another way?

Help!



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Semi-OT: Maybe getting a new laptop?

[John]

Haven't needed to use my current laptop since last October. I got it out
to make sure I had all the Windoze 7 security updates installed before I
head off to Grandfather Mountain next weekend.

Things ain't looking so good. I got a BSD 01a the first time I tried to
run the update. Second time ended with an Update Failure w/unidentified
error.

Third time I've got it checking for updates to see if maybe there are
some I need to install first ...

It's been running the "Checking for Updates" for about 2 hours now.

The laptop is about 10 years old IIRC. Toshiba A205. I still like it a
lot, it has 2 Hard-drives - 500GB & 1TB - and a DVDRW Optical drive.
Don't think I'm going to find that in a new laptop. AND because it's a
WINDOZE computer (Win 7 Pro 64bit) it will run PhotoshopCS5 - maybe not
great with just 4GB RAM & only 3.5GB of that usable, but it does run.

Trying to "upgrade" to Windoze 10 was such a disaster I refuse to have
it on any computer I own, and the price for a MacBook Pro is so
outrageously expensive to get the one I'd want is just too much pain.

So I'm thinking about a Linux laptop. Which means either GIMP for image
editing or trying to run PhotoShop on WINE.

I know there are some Linux users here, maybe even a Guru or two.

Anyone using GIMP recently? Or running PhotoShop using WINE?

Or is there another way?

Help!

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