Re: [Ql-Users] Software Preservation Project - Tasks

[George Gwilt]

> On 10 Jul 2016, at 14:14, Wolf  wrote:
> 
> isn't Turbo maintained by Grorge Gwilt?

Yes - ever since I read in a magazine that I was to maintain it!

But I have no idea whether this affects copyright or not.

George
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Re: [Ql-Users] Software Preservation Project - Tasks

[Lee Privett]

Take off the https:// bit and it should be OK

On Sun, 10 Jul 2016 at 15:54, Norman Dunbar  wrote:

> Dilwyn,
>
> The link
> https://quanta.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/QUANTA-HELPLINE-07.pdf
> gets me to a security page telling me that quanta.org.uk is unsafe. It
> seems that the security certificate - SSL? - expired some 129 days ago. Is
> there ome one at Quanta who needs to know?
>
>
> Cheers,
> Norm.
> --
> Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
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Re: [Ql-Users] Software Preservation Project - Tasks

[Norman Dunbar]

Dilwyn,

The link 
https://quanta.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/QUANTA-HELPLINE-07.pdf gets me 
to a security page telling me that quanta.org.uk is unsafe. It seems that the 
security certificate - SSL? - expired some 129 days ago. Is there ome one at 
Quanta who needs to know? 


Cheers,
Norm. 
-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
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Re: [Ql-Users] Software Preservation Project - Tasks

[Dilwyn Jones]

I think, but I'm not 100% certain, that the source code for Turbo, The 
Editor etc, by the author
who's name escapes me right now, are or were online many years ago. I may 
even have
downloaded them at some point. I remember definitely looking through the 
source for

The Editor so I did get it somewhere legal.
Turbo was originally by Simon Goodwin and Chas Dillon. At various stages, 
parts were updated by David Gilham, Mark Knight and George Gwilt. George 
maintains it now and both the compiler, toolkit, manuals and sources are 
available to download free of charge nowadays from George's site at 
http://gwiltprogs.info/page2.htm


The Editor was originally from Chas Dillon and was updated by Mark Knight as 
"Editor 2000". This updated version plus sources is available to download as 
freeware from my site at http://www.dilwyn.me.uk/editview/index.html


The sources for many of Chas Dillon's programs are at 
http://www.dilwyn.me.uk/cdillon/index.html (sadly not including CPort). 
These are Freeware and not public domain. At the time, Chas only supplied me 
with the sources - you will need Turbo to recompile them and some of them 
include only limited documentation.


Unfortunately, I don't still have a copy of Chas's original message (lost 
during computer failure a few years ago) concerning the release of his QL 
software and without that email I can't be 100% sure that all of his 
programs were covered. I do remember that his copies were held on the hard 
disk of a failed Thor XVI and what appears on my site was what he had been 
able to recover at the time.


Perhaps if Rich or anyone else I was in contact with at the time has copies 
of that email, I could do with a copy to verify exactly what was said.


Reverse engineering a compiled SuperBasic task might be more trouble than 
simply
rewriting from scratch? If necessary there's a program I wrote yes ago, 
which Dilwyn
updated, that decodes a QSAVE'd program. I'm certain that could be used as 
the basis
for a new Cport lexer perhaps. It is called something like decode_qsave or 
similar.
It formed the basis of a Quanta Helpline article, available from the Quanta 
website at 
https://quanta.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/QUANTA-HELPLINE-07.pdf - I 
think it's the same article as the one below. The updating Norman referred 
to was to get it to decode some additional tokens in SBASIC.



There's a doc file here, I think it's Word format:
http://www.sitelevel.com/click?url=http%3a%2f%2fwww.dilwyn.me.uk%2fdocs%2fformats%2fsavfiles.doc=YCsXx5g7rfbNG11e
- which contains a listing of the program.

Also at http://www.dilwyn.me.uk/docs/formats/savfiles.pdf

Dilwyn Jones 




-
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2016.0.7640 / Virus Database: 4627/12591 - Release Date: 07/10/16

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Re: [Ql-Users] Software Preservation Project - Tasks

[Rich Mellor (RWAP)]

Yes - Simon Goodwin was the author of Turbo and Supercharge and released the
source code for Turbo when Digital Precision ceased business and all rights
reverted to the authors.
 
Chas Dillon also released his code as freeware (possibly even public domain).
 
No idea what happened with the other authors however...
 
Rich

> On July 10, 2016 at 2:14 PM Wolf  wrote:
>
>
> Hi all,
>
> isn't Turbo maintained by Grorge Gwilt?
>
> Wolfgang
>
> On 07/10/2016 02:22 PM, Norman Dunbar wrote:
> > Afternoon all.
> >
> > I think, but I'm not 100% certain, that the source code for Turbo, The
> > Editor etc, by the author who's name escapes me right now, are or were
> > online many years ago. I may even have downloaded them at some point. I
> > remember definitely looking through the source for The Editor so I did get
> > it somewhere legal.
> >
> > Having said that, I don't remember if Cport was included.
> >
> > Reverse engineering a compiled SuperBasic task might be more trouble than
> > simply rewriting from scratch? If necessary there's a program I wrote yes
> > ago, which Dilwyn updated, that decodes a QSAVE'd program. I'm certain that
> > could be used as the basis for a new Cport lexer perhaps. It is called
> > something like decode_qsave or similar.
> >
> > There's a doc file here, I think it's Word format:
> > http://www.sitelevel.com/click?url=http%3a%2f%2fwww.dilwyn.me.uk%2fdocs%2fformats%2fsavfiles.doc=YCsXx5g7rfbNG11e
> > - which contains a listing of the program.
> >
> > Doing it as new should allow the cfix stuff to be included without needing a
> > separate task to do it. Plus, it could be made easier to translate to C -
> > how hard could it be? ;-)
> >
> > To be honest, I paid for Cport all those years ago, but have used it
> > infrequently. It's a great idea, it fell down in practice. There always
> > seemed to be far too much work post conversion just to get a clean C68
> > compile,never mind getting the code to work!
> >
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Norm.
> >
> > On 9 July 2016 22:17:45 BST, Michael Bulford 
> > wrote:
> >> On Thursday 7 July 2016, 21:29:04, Rich Mellor (RWAP) wrote :
> >>
> >>
> >>> Shirley Butler (C-Fix program for use with SuperBASIC C-Port) - not
> >> sure if she
> >>> had any more involvement in C-Port. I also emailed Dave Walker, but
> >> no response
> >>> from either
> >>
> >> Hi Rich,
> >> I also wrote to Shirley, but had no response. This morning,
> >> I tried ringing her on the number she gave in the C-Fix user manual
> >>from 1992, but this was unobtainable. Are you still in contact with
> >> Freddy Vaccha? Perhaps he might know something.
> >> What I would like to do is to get a copy of the source SuperBASIC code
> >> for both C-Port and C-Fix. The idea being to update them so that they
> >> can work fully with modern day emulators, and also to cure some bugs
> >> and generally improve them. I have actually managed to use C-Port
> >> with some success. Recently I have C-Ported a 58k SBASIC program into
> >> Cee without any problems. I did of course have to keep on changing the
> >> code until it finally Cported. The resulting Cee code certainly needed
> >> some tinkering with before it would C68 compile. The program was a
> >> version of the Travelling Salesman program, which I have been working
> >> on with Steve Poole. In my opinion, C-Port is far better than its
> >> reputation, but is certainly in need of some improvement. The C-Fix
> >> addition is very useful, however it is not complete. The numeric array
> >> bases have not been treated.
> >> If however the source is unavailable, then how about reverse
> >> engineering?Derek, have you thought any more about your idea of reverse
> >> engineering Turbo? I would be willing to work with you jointly on
> >> this. I am well acquainted with the Turbo parser and understand how it
> >> works. If you can regenerate the pseudo-code for C-Port, I am sure I
> >> could regenerate the SuperBASIC code from there. What we could end up
> >> with is a SuperBASIC program that perhaps works, but would be totally
> >> unreadable, since we would not know the original variable names used.
> >> We would just have to guess at how it works. But this would be a
> >> start. This may take some while to complete, but the more time spent
> >> on it, the better it would become.
> >> About the legal aspect, I would agree this may be illegal - if we go by
> >> the letter of the law. But if we go by the spirit of the law, this may
> >> be another matter. We would be producing something that would be of
> >> benefit to the whole QL community. I am certain the authors of Turbo /
> >> Cport / C-Fix would welcome our contributions.
> >> We may not have to go down this road. Who knows - perhaps Freddy
> >> Vaccha can come up with the goods - and supply the SuperBASIC sources.
> >> If anybody knows him, can you please contact him and ask.
> >> Michael
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> 

Re: [Ql-Users] Software Preservation Project - Tasks

[Wolf]

Hi all,

isn't Turbo maintained by Grorge Gwilt?

Wolfgang

On 07/10/2016 02:22 PM, Norman Dunbar wrote:

Afternoon all.

I think, but I'm not 100% certain, that the source code for Turbo, The Editor 
etc, by the author who's name escapes me right now, are or were online many 
years ago. I may even have downloaded them at some point. I remember definitely 
looking through the source for The Editor so I did get it somewhere legal.

Having said that, I don't remember if Cport was included.

Reverse engineering a compiled SuperBasic task might be more trouble than 
simply rewriting from scratch? If necessary there's a program I wrote yes ago, 
which Dilwyn updated, that decodes a QSAVE'd program. I'm certain that could be 
used as the basis for a new Cport lexer perhaps. It is called something like 
decode_qsave or similar.

There's a doc file here, I think it's Word format: 
http://www.sitelevel.com/click?url=http%3a%2f%2fwww.dilwyn.me.uk%2fdocs%2fformats%2fsavfiles.doc=YCsXx5g7rfbNG11e
 - which contains a listing of the program.

Doing it as new should allow the cfix stuff to be included without needing a 
separate task to do it. Plus, it could be made easier to translate to C - how 
hard could it be? ;-)

To be honest, I paid for Cport all those years ago, but have used it 
infrequently. It's a great idea, it fell down in practice. There always seemed 
to be far too much work post conversion just to get a clean C68 compile,never 
mind getting the code to work!


Cheers,
Norm.

On 9 July 2016 22:17:45 BST, Michael Bulford  wrote:

On Thursday 7 July 2016, 21:29:04, Rich Mellor (RWAP) wrote :



Shirley Butler (C-Fix program for use with SuperBASIC C-Port) - not

sure if she

had any more involvement in C-Port.  I also emailed Dave Walker, but

no response

from either


Hi Rich,
I also wrote to Shirley, but had no response.  This morning,
I tried ringing her on the number she gave in the C-Fix user manual
from 1992, but this was unobtainable.  Are you still in contact with
Freddy Vaccha?  Perhaps he might know something.
What I would like to do is to get a copy of the source SuperBASIC code
for both C-Port and C-Fix.  The idea being to update them so that they
can work fully with modern day emulators, and also to cure some bugs
and generally improve them.   I have actually managed to use C-Port
with some success.  Recently I have C-Ported a 58k SBASIC program into
Cee without any problems.  I did of course have to keep on changing the
code until it finally Cported.  The resulting Cee code certainly needed
some tinkering with before it would C68 compile.  The program was a
version of the Travelling Salesman program, which I have been working
on with Steve Poole.  In my opinion, C-Port is far better than its
reputation, but is certainly in need of some improvement.  The C-Fix
addition is very useful, however it is not complete.  The numeric array
bases have not been treated.
If however the source is unavailable, then how about reverse
engineering?Derek, have you thought any more about your idea of reverse
engineering Turbo?  I would be willing to work with you jointly on
this.  I am well acquainted with the Turbo parser and understand how it
works.  If you can regenerate the pseudo-code for C-Port, I am sure I
could regenerate the SuperBASIC code from there.  What we could end up
with is a SuperBASIC program that perhaps works, but would be totally
unreadable, since we would not know the original variable names used.
We would just have to guess at how it works.  But this would be a
start.  This may take some while to complete, but the more time spent
on it, the better it would become.
About the legal aspect, I would agree this may be illegal - if we go by
the letter of the law.  But if we go by the spirit of the law, this may
be another matter.  We would be producing something that would be of
benefit to the whole QL community.  I am certain the authors of Turbo /
Cport / C-Fix would welcome our contributions.
We may not have to go down this road.  Who knows - perhaps Freddy
Vaccha can come up with the goods - and supply the SuperBASIC sources.
If anybody knows him, can you please contact him and ask.
Michael






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[Ql-Users] Software Preservation Project - Tasks

[Michael Bulford]

On Thursday 7 July 2016, 21:29:04, Rich Mellor (RWAP) wrote :


> Shirley Butler (C-Fix program for use with SuperBASIC C-Port) - not sure if 
> she
> had any more involvement in C-Port.  I also emailed Dave Walker, but no 
> response
> from either

Hi Rich,
I also wrote to Shirley, but had no response.  This morning, I tried ringing 
her on the number she gave in the C-Fix user manual from 1992, but this was 
unobtainable.  Are you still in contact with Freddy Vaccha?  Perhaps he might 
know something.  
What I would like to do is to get a copy of the source SuperBASIC code for both 
C-Port and C-Fix.  The idea being to update them so that they can work fully 
with modern day emulators, and also to cure some bugs and generally improve 
them.   I have actually managed to use C-Port with some success.  Recently I 
have C-Ported a 58k SBASIC program into Cee without any problems.  I did of 
course have to keep on changing the code until it finally Cported.  The 
resulting Cee code certainly needed some tinkering with before it would C68 
compile.  The program was a version of the Travelling Salesman program, which I 
have been working on with Steve Poole.  In my opinion, C-Port is far better 
than its reputation, but is certainly in need of some improvement.  The C-Fix 
addition is very useful, however it is not complete.  The numeric array bases 
have not been treated.
If however the source is unavailable, then how about reverse engineering?Derek, 
have you thought any more about your idea of reverse engineering Turbo?  I 
would be willing to work with you jointly on this.  I am well acquainted with 
the Turbo parser and understand how it works.  If you can regenerate the 
pseudo-code for C-Port, I am sure I could regenerate the SuperBASIC code from 
there.  What we could end up with is a SuperBASIC program that perhaps works, 
but would be totally unreadable, since we would not know the original variable 
names used.  We would just have to guess at how it works.  But this would be a 
start.  This may take some while to complete, but the more time spent on it, 
the better it would become.
About the legal aspect, I would agree this may be illegal - if we go by the 
letter of the law.  But if we go by the spirit of the law, this may be another 
matter.  We would be producing something that would be of benefit to the whole 
QL community.  I am certain the authors of Turbo / Cport / C-Fix would welcome 
our contributions.
We may not have to go down this road.  Who knows - perhaps Freddy Vaccha can 
come up with the goods - and supply the SuperBASIC sources.  If anybody knows 
him, can you please contact him and ask.
Michael






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Re: [Ql-Users] Software Preservation Project - Tasks

[Ralf Reköndt]

I fear it's lost.

- Original Message - 
From: 
Great news about Qliberator may become freeware. Would Ian release the 
source code? 


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Re: [Ql-Users] Software Preservation Project - Tasks

[derek]

Hi Rich,

Great news about Qliberator may become freeware. Would Ian release the source 
code?On 8 Jul 2016 12:03, Rich Mellor  wrote:
>
> Ian Stewart is happy for the Liberation software to be made freeware, 
> but has said that Adrian needs to also give his consent 
>
> On Facebook, I have contacted the following, but no response - 
> Peter Mackeonis (Metacomco) 
> Grae Yeandle (Gilsoft - he wrote Quill for the ZX Spectrum, but not sure 
> if he wrote the QL version) 
> Michael Slatford (QL Investment Monitor) 
> Janko Mrsic Flogel 
>
> Plus several others although they might not be the right people. 
>
> Rich 
>
>
> On 08/07/2016 08:31, Lee Privett wrote: 
> > Can I add Adrian Soundy to that list of QLiberator fame (Liberation 
> > Software 
> > ),
> >  
> > I have tried to no avail to get a response from him regarding his part of 
> > the compiler program, as far as I know he is living in New Zealand, and I 
> > have messaged through one of the people at Intercreate.org 
> >  who passed this on to Adrian. If anyone lives 
> > there or is going there you may have better luck. Over a year now of 
> > trying, Facebook and Linked-in also proved unsuccessful routes. 
> > 
> > Lee 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > On Thu, Jul 7, 2016 at 9:29 PM, Rich Mellor (RWAP) 
> >  
> > wrote: 
> > 
> >> I thought it would be worthwhile listing the people I have tried 
> >> contacting by 
> >> letter but not received a response from: 
> >> 
> >> Steve Sutton (Lightning, some of Perfection, ACT 
> >> Alan Bridewell (Text N Graphics) 
> >> Robin Barker - Di-Ren (letter returned no longer at this address) 
> >> Graham Kirk (MAXIM and QLART) - I spoke with his brother, who provided me 
> >> with 
> >> Graham's address, but there was no response to my letter 
> >> Jurgen Falkenburg (Level 2 Trump Card drivers) 
> >> Simon Okoloko - Okoloko Engineering, USA (FRAME, GRID, TRUSS) - I have a 
> >> letter 
> >> sending the software to QL World for review, plus the manuals, but alas no 
> >> software! 
> >> Shirley Butler (C-Fix program for use with SuperBASIC C-Port) - not sure 
> >> if she 
> >> had any more involvement in C-Port.  I also emailed Dave Walker, but no 
> >> response 
> >> from either 
> >> Alex Waye - Waye Ahead (QL Ambition) 
> >> 
> >> I have had more luck with emailing and contacting people on facebook / 
> >> linkedIn 
> >> - but Facebook is not reliable as unless you are a friend of the person, 
> >> your 
> >> messages get put in an 'Other folder' and are not obvious! 
> >> 
> >> Rich 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> Rich Mellor 
> >> RWAP Software 
> >> www.rwapsoftware.co.uk 
> >> www.sellmyretro.com 
> >> ___ 
> >> QL-Users Mailing List 
> >> 
> > ___ 
> > QL-Users Mailing List 
> > 
>
>
> -- 
> Rich Mellor 
> RWAP Services 
> Specialist Enuuk Auction Programming Services 
>
> www.rwapservices.co.uk 
>
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Re: [Ql-Users] Software Preservation Project - Tasks

[Rich Mellor]

Ian Stewart is happy for the Liberation software to be made freeware, 
but has said that Adrian needs to also give his consent


On Facebook, I have contacted the following, but no response -
Peter Mackeonis (Metacomco)
Grae Yeandle (Gilsoft - he wrote Quill for the ZX Spectrum, but not sure 
if he wrote the QL version)

Michael Slatford (QL Investment Monitor)
Janko Mrsic Flogel

Plus several others although they might not be the right people.

Rich


On 08/07/2016 08:31, Lee Privett wrote:

Can I add Adrian Soundy to that list of QLiberator fame (Liberation Software
),
I have tried to no avail to get a response from him regarding his part of
the compiler program, as far as I know he is living in New Zealand, and I
have messaged through one of the people at Intercreate.org
 who passed this on to Adrian. If anyone lives
there or is going there you may have better luck. Over a year now of
trying, Facebook and Linked-in also proved unsuccessful routes.

Lee




On Thu, Jul 7, 2016 at 9:29 PM, Rich Mellor (RWAP) 
wrote:


I thought it would be worthwhile listing the people I have tried
contacting by
letter but not received a response from:

Steve Sutton (Lightning, some of Perfection, ACT
Alan Bridewell (Text N Graphics)
Robin Barker - Di-Ren (letter returned no longer at this address)
Graham Kirk (MAXIM and QLART) - I spoke with his brother, who provided me
with
Graham's address, but there was no response to my letter
Jurgen Falkenburg (Level 2 Trump Card drivers)
Simon Okoloko - Okoloko Engineering, USA (FRAME, GRID, TRUSS) - I have a
letter
sending the software to QL World for review, plus the manuals, but alas no
software!
Shirley Butler (C-Fix program for use with SuperBASIC C-Port) - not sure
if she
had any more involvement in C-Port.  I also emailed Dave Walker, but no
response
from either
Alex Waye - Waye Ahead (QL Ambition)

I have had more luck with emailing and contacting people on facebook /
linkedIn
- but Facebook is not reliable as unless you are a friend of the person,
your
messages get put in an 'Other folder' and are not obvious!

Rich


Rich Mellor
RWAP Software
www.rwapsoftware.co.uk
www.sellmyretro.com
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--
Rich Mellor
RWAP Services
Specialist Enuuk Auction Programming Services

www.rwapservices.co.uk

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Re: [Ql-Users] Software Preservation Project - Tasks

[Lee Privett]

Can I add Adrian Soundy to that list of QLiberator fame (Liberation Software
),
I have tried to no avail to get a response from him regarding his part of
the compiler program, as far as I know he is living in New Zealand, and I
have messaged through one of the people at Intercreate.org
 who passed this on to Adrian. If anyone lives
there or is going there you may have better luck. Over a year now of
trying, Facebook and Linked-in also proved unsuccessful routes.

Lee




On Thu, Jul 7, 2016 at 9:29 PM, Rich Mellor (RWAP) 
wrote:

> I thought it would be worthwhile listing the people I have tried
> contacting by
> letter but not received a response from:
>
> Steve Sutton (Lightning, some of Perfection, ACT
> Alan Bridewell (Text N Graphics)
> Robin Barker - Di-Ren (letter returned no longer at this address)
> Graham Kirk (MAXIM and QLART) - I spoke with his brother, who provided me
> with
> Graham's address, but there was no response to my letter
> Jurgen Falkenburg (Level 2 Trump Card drivers)
> Simon Okoloko - Okoloko Engineering, USA (FRAME, GRID, TRUSS) - I have a
> letter
> sending the software to QL World for review, plus the manuals, but alas no
> software!
> Shirley Butler (C-Fix program for use with SuperBASIC C-Port) - not sure
> if she
> had any more involvement in C-Port.  I also emailed Dave Walker, but no
> response
> from either
> Alex Waye - Waye Ahead (QL Ambition)
>
> I have had more luck with emailing and contacting people on facebook /
> linkedIn
> - but Facebook is not reliable as unless you are a friend of the person,
> your
> messages get put in an 'Other folder' and are not obvious!
>
> Rich
>
>
> Rich Mellor
> RWAP Software
> www.rwapsoftware.co.uk
> www.sellmyretro.com
> ___
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>
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[Ql-Users] Software Preservation Project - Tasks

[Rich Mellor (RWAP)]

I thought it would be worthwhile listing the people I have tried contacting by
letter but not received a response from:
 
Steve Sutton (Lightning, some of Perfection, ACT
Alan Bridewell (Text N Graphics)
Robin Barker - Di-Ren (letter returned no longer at this address)
Graham Kirk (MAXIM and QLART) - I spoke with his brother, who provided me with
Graham's address, but there was no response to my letter
Jurgen Falkenburg (Level 2 Trump Card drivers)
Simon Okoloko - Okoloko Engineering, USA (FRAME, GRID, TRUSS) - I have a letter
sending the software to QL World for review, plus the manuals, but alas no
software!
Shirley Butler (C-Fix program for use with SuperBASIC C-Port) - not sure if she
had any more involvement in C-Port.  I also emailed Dave Walker, but no response
from either
Alex Waye - Waye Ahead (QL Ambition)

I have had more luck with emailing and contacting people on facebook / linkedIn
- but Facebook is not reliable as unless you are a friend of the person, your
messages get put in an 'Other folder' and are not obvious!
 
Rich


Rich Mellor
RWAP Software
www.rwapsoftware.co.uk
www.sellmyretro.com
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