RE: [recoznettwo] Online poll
oh geez. I'm depressed with the response on this poll. Vote yes to release them...6218 Vote no...5371 Undecided...99 wot the hell is wrong with 5371 people to even consider risking this childs life further!? thanx for the notice on the tv show trudy, watching it answered a lot of my questions, and put everything in perspective for me. the way these people are being treated is inhumane, no doubt at all in my mind. the intolerable manner in which these refugees are treated when they get here is the DIRECT cause for any violent flare-ups, and suicide or escape attempts! i can't understand why they would not regard Shayan's father as genuinely needing assylum? 'both' he and his friend were integral in organising a student demonstration against the oppressive regime in their home country...his friend has been granted assylum...so why not shayan's father (particularly with his child so desperately ill and in need of immediate intensive assistance)??? the new zealand attitude and program toward assylum seekers was really commendable...goodonya's kiwis! way to go! great example! we should be following their lead! would anyone know who the minister in new zealand is, who was responsible for implementing their refugee program? Also...are we allowed to send comfort-items to the detention centres? Others who watched the program with me are equally upset, and want to know where to address packages for the families being held. Perhaps would anyone know of an organisation geared to assisting detained refugees? Suze http://www.smh.com.au/news/specials/vote/index.html The Sydney Morning Herald is conducting a poll on whether people think that Shayan's family should be released from Villawood. Trudy -- * Join the peoples' movement: The Australian Reconciliation Party http://www.green.net.au/arp/ * -- --- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/ until 11 March, 2001 and Recoznettwo is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznettwo%40green.net.au/ from that date. This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the fair use provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for fair use. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/ until 11 March, 2001 and Recoznettwo is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznettwo%40green.net.au/ from that date. This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the fair use provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for fair use.
Re: [recoznettwo] Online poll
These online polls are meaningless, worse than other forms of polling, which are bad enough. It is completely pointless being shocked by their results and drawing conclusions about what people really think. Ruddock, or more likely, one of the undead he employs in his office, can sit there and tote up as many votes as they can be bothered doing. I voted 3 times myself, just to test it. These things, therefore, are a tool in CREATING public opinion, not reflecting it. If we pay attention to them we are just being agents in our own manipulation. Ignore them and get on with important things. Tim - Original Message - From: Trudy Bray [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2001 5:34 PM Subject: Re: [recoznettwo] Online poll Hi Suze, It shocked me too - the number of people voting 'no' especially in light of the readership of the SMH. I guess it shows how successful Ruddock's smear campaign and villification of the refugees has been. I think if an Australian from even 30 years ago could return from the grave, he or she wouldn't recognise their country or its people. I believe there are refugee support groups in all the states and territories with concentration camps but have no contact number or address. I will see if I can find a contact. Cheers, Trudy Suze Collette wrote: oh geez. I'm depressed with the response on this poll. Vote yes to release them...6218 Vote no...5371 Undecided...99 wot the hell is wrong with 5371 people to even consider risking this childs life further!? thanx for the notice on the tv show trudy, watching it answered a lot of my questions, and put everything in perspective for me. the way these people are being treated is inhumane, no doubt at all in my mind. the intolerable manner in which these refugees are treated when they get here is the DIRECT cause for any violent flare-ups, and suicide or escape attempts! i can't understand why they would not regard Shayan's father as genuinely needing assylum? 'both' he and his friend were integral in organising a student demonstration against the oppressive regime in their home country...his friend has been granted assylum...so why not shayan's father (particularly with his child so desperately ill and in need of immediate intensive assistance)??? the new zealand attitude and program toward assylum seekers was really commendable...goodonya's kiwis! way to go! great example! we should be following their lead! would anyone know who the minister in new zealand is, who was responsible for implementing their refugee program? Also...are we allowed to send comfort-items to the detention centres? Others who watched the program with me are equally upset, and want to know where to address packages for the families being held. Perhaps would anyone know of an organisation geared to assisting detained refugees? Suze http://www.smh.com.au/news/specials/vote/index.html The Sydney Morning Herald is conducting a poll on whether people think that Shayan's family should be released from Villawood. Trudy -- * Join the peoples' movement: The Australian Reconciliation Party http://www.green.net.au/arp/ * -- --- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/ until 11 March, 2001 and Recoznettwo is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznettwo%40green.net.au/ from that date. This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the fair use provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for fair use. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/ until 11 March, 2001 and Recoznettwo is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznettwo%40green.net.au/ from that date. This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the fair use provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for fair use. -- * Join the peoples'
Re: [recoznettwo] Online poll
Hi Suze, It shocked me too - the number of people voting 'no' especially in light of the readership of the SMH. I guess it shows how successful Ruddock's smear campaign and villification of the refugees has been. I think if an Australian from even 30 years ago could return from the grave, he or she wouldn't recognise their country or its people. I believe there are refugee support groups in all the states and territories with concentration camps but have no contact number or address. I will see if I can find a contact. Cheers, Trudy Suze Collette wrote: oh geez. I'm depressed with the response on this poll. Vote yes to release them...6218 Vote no...5371 Undecided...99 wot the hell is wrong with 5371 people to even consider risking this childs life further!? thanx for the notice on the tv show trudy, watching it answered a lot of my questions, and put everything in perspective for me. the way these people are being treated is inhumane, no doubt at all in my mind. the intolerable manner in which these refugees are treated when they get here is the DIRECT cause for any violent flare-ups, and suicide or escape attempts! i can't understand why they would not regard Shayan's father as genuinely needing assylum? 'both' he and his friend were integral in organising a student demonstration against the oppressive regime in their home country...his friend has been granted assylum...so why not shayan's father (particularly with his child so desperately ill and in need of immediate intensive assistance)??? the new zealand attitude and program toward assylum seekers was really commendable...goodonya's kiwis! way to go! great example! we should be following their lead! would anyone know who the minister in new zealand is, who was responsible for implementing their refugee program? Also...are we allowed to send comfort-items to the detention centres? Others who watched the program with me are equally upset, and want to know where to address packages for the families being held. Perhaps would anyone know of an organisation geared to assisting detained refugees? Suze http://www.smh.com.au/news/specials/vote/index.html The Sydney Morning Herald is conducting a poll on whether people think that Shayan's family should be released from Villawood. Trudy -- * Join the peoples' movement: The Australian Reconciliation Party http://www.green.net.au/arp/ * -- --- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/ until 11 March, 2001 and Recoznettwo is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznettwo%40green.net.au/ from that date. This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the fair use provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for fair use. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/ until 11 March, 2001 and Recoznettwo is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznettwo%40green.net.au/ from that date. This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the fair use provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for fair use. -- * Join the peoples' movement: The Australian Reconciliation Party http://www.green.net.au/arp/ * - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/ until 11 March, 2001 and Recoznettwo is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznettwo%40green.net.au/ from that date. This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the fair use provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission
Re: [recoznettwo] Online poll
Even if we put direct vote manipulation aside, what does a No answer to that particular question mean anyway? I can easily imagine answering Yes to that form of words. What would it prove? What does the question even mean? The idea of labelling a group of people as redneck or progressive on the basis of how they answer such an inane question is laughable. We all bitch about how shallow so much of the media is: we should, then, refuse to play their shallow games, let alone endorse them. Tim - Original Message - From: Trudy Bray [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2001 7:16 PM Subject: Re: [recoznettwo] Online poll Hi Tim, I agree with you - up to a point. Yes, a lot of these polls are manipulated and when you look at them regularly, it is possible to tell when and by whom. They do show up their clientele however...e.g. the ninemsn and newspolls very seldom show anything but a conservative to redneck result but the SMH poll has a more progressive result in general. Trudy - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/ until 11 March, 2001 and Recoznettwo is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznettwo%40green.net.au/ from that date. This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the fair use provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for fair use.
[recoznettwo] Where to from here?
Crispin, I was born in a Nazi Camp in 1944, my parents were deportees from the German occupied Channel Isles. I migrated to Australia in 1963. I was then a stateless person. I enlisted in the Australian Army in 1968, became an Australian in 1969 and served for over 20 years, including a trip to Vietnam and a through the ranks commission in 1977. I beleieved that the nation that gave me a nationality was generous of spirit and deed. Ignorance is bliss. Then I retired from the Army and discovered, outside of my cloistered military environment, the undercurrent of racism that paints the very soul of this society. Farewell my lucky country, for I must admit to wondering for some time about haebius corpus and British common law. Not so common in Austchwitlez? I have indeed travelled a lifetimetime in 57 years, and ended up just where I started. I long for freedom, and so do many on this continent. Jim Duffield a man who thought he was an ex inmate __ -Jim Duffield http://www.kultcher.com/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] - __ I was that which others cared not to be. I went where others feared to go and did what others failed to do. I asked nothing from those who gave nothing. I reluctantly, accepted the thought of eternal loneliness should I fail. I have seen the face of terror, felt the chill of fear, warmed to the touch of love. I have hoped, pained, and cried. But foremost, I have lived in times others would say are best forgotten. At the very least, in later days, I will be able to say with the greatest prideThat I was indeed! ...A Soldier! ANON Don't send 'em - All Attachments deleted summarily! - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/ until 11 March, 2001 and Recoznettwo is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznettwo%40green.net.au/ from that date. This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the fair use provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for fair use.
Re: [recoznettwo] Online poll
Tim, you spend too much time in academe and not enough on aus.politics. :-) Trudy tim dunlop wrote: Even if we put direct vote manipulation aside, what does a No answer to that particular question mean anyway? I can easily imagine answering Yes to that form of words. What would it prove? What does the question even mean? The idea of labelling a group of people as redneck or progressive on the basis of how they answer such an inane question is laughable. We all bitch about how shallow so much of the media is: we should, then, refuse to play their shallow games, let alone endorse them. Tim - Original Message - From: Trudy Bray [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2001 7:16 PM Subject: Re: [recoznettwo] Online poll Hi Tim, I agree with you - up to a point. Yes, a lot of these polls are manipulated and when you look at them regularly, it is possible to tell when and by whom. They do show up their clientele however...e.g. the ninemsn and newspolls very seldom show anything but a conservative to redneck result but the SMH poll has a more progressive result in general. Trudy - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/ until 11 March, 2001 and Recoznettwo is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznettwo%40green.net.au/ from that date. This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the fair use provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for fair use. -- * Join the peoples' movement: The Australian Reconciliation Party http://www.green.net.au/arp/ * - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/ until 11 March, 2001 and Recoznettwo is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznettwo%40green.net.au/ from that date. This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the fair use provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for fair use.
Re: [recoznettwo] Online poll
Hi Tim, I agree with you - up to a point. Yes, a lot of these polls are manipulated and when you look at them regularly, it is possible to tell when and by whom. They do show up their clientele however...e.g. the ninemsn and newspolls very seldom show anything but a conservative to redneck result but the SMH poll has a more progressive result in general. Trudy tim dunlop wrote: These online polls are meaningless, worse than other forms of polling, which are bad enough. It is completely pointless being shocked by their results and drawing conclusions about what people really think. Ruddock, or more likely, one of the undead he employs in his office, can sit there and tote up as many votes as they can be bothered doing. I voted 3 times myself, just to test it. These things, therefore, are a tool in CREATING public opinion, not reflecting it. If we pay attention to them we are just being agents in our own manipulation. Ignore them and get on with important things. Tim - Original Message - From: Trudy Bray [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2001 5:34 PM Subject: Re: [recoznettwo] Online poll Hi Suze, It shocked me too - the number of people voting 'no' especially in light of the readership of the SMH. I guess it shows how successful Ruddock's smear campaign and villification of the refugees has been. I think if an Australian from even 30 years ago could return from the grave, he or she wouldn't recognise their country or its people. I believe there are refugee support groups in all the states and territories with concentration camps but have no contact number or address. I will see if I can find a contact. Cheers, Trudy Suze Collette wrote: oh geez. I'm depressed with the response on this poll. Vote yes to release them...6218 Vote no...5371 Undecided...99 wot the hell is wrong with 5371 people to even consider risking this childs life further!? thanx for the notice on the tv show trudy, watching it answered a lot of my questions, and put everything in perspective for me. the way these people are being treated is inhumane, no doubt at all in my mind. the intolerable manner in which these refugees are treated when they get here is the DIRECT cause for any violent flare-ups, and suicide or escape attempts! i can't understand why they would not regard Shayan's father as genuinely needing assylum? 'both' he and his friend were integral in organising a student demonstration against the oppressive regime in their home country...his friend has been granted assylum...so why not shayan's father (particularly with his child so desperately ill and in need of immediate intensive assistance)??? the new zealand attitude and program toward assylum seekers was really commendable...goodonya's kiwis! way to go! great example! we should be following their lead! would anyone know who the minister in new zealand is, who was responsible for implementing their refugee program? Also...are we allowed to send comfort-items to the detention centres? Others who watched the program with me are equally upset, and want to know where to address packages for the families being held. Perhaps would anyone know of an organisation geared to assisting detained refugees? Suze http://www.smh.com.au/news/specials/vote/index.html The Sydney Morning Herald is conducting a poll on whether people think that Shayan's family should be released from Villawood. Trudy -- * Join the peoples' movement: The Australian Reconciliation Party http://www.green.net.au/arp/ * -- --- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/ until 11 March, 2001 and Recoznettwo is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznettwo%40green.net.au/ from that date. This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the fair use provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for fair use. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/ until 11 March,
Re: [recoznettwo] Online poll
If you have a look at the results of other recent polls there you might not feel so positive about the SMH readership Trudy. On things like drug trials, worker entitlements, the electronic tagging of detention centre inmates, Tony Abbott and many other measures they look pretty reactionary to me! If you have a look at the voting pattern on the Shyan issue today you'll see that it has changed pretty dramatically, with two to one now in favour of release. If it really was a measure of a swing in opinion amongst the SMH readership I'd be worried if I was Ruddock. Cheers rod Trudy wrote: Hi Tim, I agree with you - up to a point. Yes, a lot of these polls are manipulated and when you look at them regularly, it is possible to tell when and by whom. They do show up their clientele however...e.g. the ninemsn and newspolls very seldom show anything but a conservative to redneck result but the SMH poll has a more progressive result in general. Trudy -- Rod Hagen email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hurstbridge, Victoria, Australia WWWhttp://www.netspace.net.au/~rodhagen - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/ until 11 March, 2001 and Recoznettwo is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznettwo%40green.net.au/ from that date. This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the fair use provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for fair use.
Re: [recoznettwo] Online poll
As much as I enjoy some of the discussion on this list (not that there is much these days) and the endless supply of interesting info, it is also a place that exhibits some of the most amazing narrow-mindedness. Some of the judgemental comments that are made about ordinary Australians would be considered unacceptable if they were made about just about any other ethnic group. Everyone from Liberal voters to those who have some misgivings about ATSIC have been vilified here for incorrect attitudes. A bit of this is inevitable, and I've been guilty of it myself (I was, for instance, a complete arsehole to Lance some time back and caused him to leave, an exchange that brings me no credit). But as an overall impression, I find a lot of what is said here to be a positive hindrance to reconciliation, and just plain hypocritical. There is a party line that is enforced and woebetide anyone who goes against it, as can be evidenced by the odd person who has been kicked off, the odd one who has left voluntarily and the even larger number who have simply given up commenting (and by the number of off-list comments I have received over the years). To be serious about the political projects this list purports to support it might just be useful for it to find another language for discussing and engaging with those who disagree, and not use stupid opinion polls and comments on aus.politics as indicative of what everybody else thinks. Life's more complicated than that, and if we were serious, we'd find less simplistic ways of discussing these things. We'd also be a little less convinced that what we think is always right. Tim - Original Message - From: Trudy Bray [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 12:03 AM Subject: Re: [recoznettwo] Online poll Tim, you spend too much time in academe and not enough on aus.politics. :-) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/ until 11 March, 2001 and Recoznettwo is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznettwo%40green.net.au/ from that date. This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the fair use provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for fair use.
[recoznettwo] SMH - Letters (extract)
The Sydney Morning Herald Letters: Whatever happened to compassion? Date: 16/08/2001 What has happened to fairness and decency in this country? An escapee's family from Villawood is deported as a retaliatory act of revenge. The parents of a traumatised six-year-old boy are blamed by the Immigration Minister for his plight, and it is now suggested he will be forcibly fostered or sent back with his family to whatever punishment awaits them in Iran. Is there no statesman among our politicians who are scrabbling for votes, busy offering financial bribes to the electorate to gain office? Are they all indifferent to this inhumanity? I wish the Opposition had the guts to take up the case. It might be surprised to find many people who loathe the brutality being shown by a rigid and uncaring Government, and who would vote for compassion. Peter Yeldham, Yarramalong Valley, August 14. In the movie Nuremberg, a psychologist assigned to the 22 Nazi war criminals during the trial perceived a common characteristic linking each defendant which led him to conclude that evil was a lack of empathy for fellow human beings. On Monday Four Corners took us inside the barbed wire detention centre of Villawood, and interviewed Philip Ruddock, who blithely justified the inhumanity suffered by inmates as a deterrent measure to other illegal immigrants and expressed the sentiment that people should not expect to get what they want merely because they slash their wrists. Australia is debased by such treatment of human beings. And we do not even have the excuse of a war or an Adolf Hitler. M. McDonald, Dubbo, August 15. It's as if profound ugliness was a matter of ambition among the Coalition frontbench. And Ruddock is winning hands down. He has far surpassed his prime contenders, Reith and Abbott. Congratulations! R. Ratajczak, Glebe, August 15. As soon as I saw the Four Corners program advertised, I forecast that it would be a biased and distorted program. It was very obvious that all those interviewed had been very carefully coached. The program neglected to advise viewers that the family with the son whose health had suffered had failed not only the original interview but also the Review Tribunal and then our courts. There was only one avenue left for the interviewer - distort the situation to introduce the sob story. Unfortunately for the programmers, it backfired as it was obvious that the father hadn't cared too much about dragging his family halfway around the world. You couldn't blame viewers for suspecting that he was using his son as a last resort. This biased and deceitful program has badly damaged any credibility of future Four Corners programs. I certainly won't be watching any more. Frank J. Robinson, Lindfield, August 14. I have sometimes wondered how the German people of the time allowed the Holocaust to happen. After observing the actions of our Government in regard to asylum seekers and the apparent public approval of those actions, I am beginning to understand. The family of a man is barred from joining him because his daughter is sick; he sets himself on fire and subsequently dies. This is news for a day or so but then the football is on and the public goes back to the telly. A six-year-old has been in detention for a quarter of his fragile life. He is now too traumatised to speak, eat or drink properly. For the few people who could be bothered turning off the latest American sitcom it was a harrowing story. However, apart from the Herald, it raised barely a mention in the newspapers. The family, of course, is of Middle Eastern origin. I suspect the reaction would have been different if the child was from a white Anglo-Saxon background. History has shown the dangers of extreme nationalism in the past and we would do well to heed these warnings. Tony Walbran, Allambie Heights, August 14. On The 7.30 Report last night, Philip Ruddock demonstrated his callous approach to those who would be Australians, in just one word. His inability to name Shayan, the ill refugee child, and instead refer to him as it says it all. This immigrant Aussie is ashamed. Angela Gillman, Aranda (ACT), August 15. As the scandal continues of hundreds of wretched children locked up in Ruddock's concentration camps, all we get from the Opposition is the silence of the ALP lambs. Ian Nicolson, Banora Point, August 14. How is it that Australia can beat the New Zealanders in rugby, cricket and soccer but comes stone last in extending compassion to traumatised refugees? An ashamed Aussie, E. Suchet, St Ives Chase, August 15. All humans are equal except some are more human than others. George Antonakos, Byron Bay, August 15. For balance: Those who want to read about the predicament of 'poor' Ruddock can read Miranda Devine at http://www.smh.com.au/news/0108/16/text/opinion1.html -- * Join the peoples' movement: The Australian Reconciliation Party http://www.green.net.au/arp/
Re: [recoznettwo] Online poll
Hi Tim, Could you give an example of what you consider to be a non-judgemental, helpful to reconciliation, unhypocritical contribution to the list, and perhaps an example of a contributer being villified for having an incorrect attitudewithout writing anything that you are convinced is right, of course. As it stands, to my eye ,your criticism of the list has a large dose of the when are you going to stop beating your wife about itof course, I'm not convinced I am right about any of this, so I feel my contribution is acceptable :-). Laurie. --- - Original Message - From: tim dunlop [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 9:55 AM Subject: Re: [recoznettwo] Online poll As much as I enjoy some of the discussion on this list (not that there is much these days) and the endless supply of interesting info, it is also a place that exhibits some of the most amazing narrow-mindedness. Some of the judgemental comments that are made about ordinary Australians would be considered unacceptable if they were made about just about any other ethnic group. Everyone from Liberal voters to those who have some misgivings about ATSIC have been vilified here for incorrect attitudes. A bit of this is inevitable, and I've been guilty of it myself (I was, for instance, a complete arsehole to Lance some time back and caused him to leave, an exchange that brings me no credit). But as an overall impression, I find a lot of what is said here to be a positive hindrance to reconciliation, and just plain hypocritical. There is a party line that is enforced and woebetide anyone who goes against it, as can be evidenced by the odd person who has been kicked off, the odd one who has left voluntarily and the even larger number who have simply given up commenting (and by the number of off-list comments I have received over the years). To be serious about the political projects this list purports to support it might just be useful for it to find another language for discussing and engaging with those who disagree, and not use stupid opinion polls and comments on aus.politics as indicative of what everybody else thinks. Life's more complicated than that, and if we were serious, we'd find less simplistic ways of discussing these things. We'd also be a little less convinced that what we think is always right. Tim - Original Message - From: Trudy Bray [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 12:03 AM Subject: Re: [recoznettwo] Online poll Tim, you spend too much time in academe and not enough on aus.politics. :-) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/ until 11 March, 2001 and Recoznettwo is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznettwo%40green.net.au/ from that date. This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the fair use provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for fair use. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/ until 11 March, 2001 and Recoznettwo is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznettwo%40green.net.au/ from that date. This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the fair use provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for fair use.
[recoznettwo] Cool it, guys and gals !( was Re: [recoznettwo] Online poll)
Trudy, Tim and Laurie, This isn't getting anyone anywhere and is showing signs of going critical! You are all better than that, and getting diverted from the main game! How about a bit of focus on the big picture issues? Anyone have any thoughts on how to regain the impetus for proper land rights, given the increasingly apparent failure of Native Title to deliver? Or the pro's and cons of a treaty? I have some reservations about the treaty idea. Over the last twenty five years I can remember it coming up seriously on three occasions. On each occasion its consumed a lot of energy without any consequent real gain. It often seemed to emerge when everything else was going badly. Would everyone be better off focusing on specific issues (like Land Rights, health and racism) rather than risking getting sidelined into what may become a quixotic chase after something with little more than symbolic value and little current hope of success (and , yes, i know symbols can be important) Cheers Rod - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/ until 11 March, 2001 and Recoznettwo is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznettwo%40green.net.au/ from that date. This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the fair use provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for fair use.
Re: [recoznettwo] Cool it, guys and gals !( was Re: [recoznettwo] Online poll)
Rod, I'm also a bit wary of a treaty but only because I think it may, in the long run, not guarantee Indigenous rights because it can so easily be ignored. All human rights, including Aboriginal land rights, would be a whole lot safer in a Bill of Rights enshrined in the Constitution. I know many don't agree with me there but I really can't see how else Indigenous rights as well as anyone elses can be protected from the whim of party politics. Trudy Rod Hagen wrote: Trudy, Tim and Laurie, This isn't getting anyone anywhere and is showing signs of going critical! You are all better than that, and getting diverted from the main game! How about a bit of focus on the big picture issues? Anyone have any thoughts on how to regain the impetus for proper land rights, given the increasingly apparent failure of Native Title to deliver? Or the pro's and cons of a treaty? I have some reservations about the treaty idea. Over the last twenty five years I can remember it coming up seriously on three occasions. On each occasion its consumed a lot of energy without any consequent real gain. It often seemed to emerge when everything else was going badly. Would everyone be better off focusing on specific issues (like Land Rights, health and racism) rather than risking getting sidelined into what may become a quixotic chase after something with little more than symbolic value and little current hope of success (and , yes, i know symbols can be important) Cheers Rod - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/ until 11 March, 2001 and Recoznettwo is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznettwo%40green.net.au/ from that date. This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the fair use provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for fair use. -- * Join the peoples' movement: The Australian Reconciliation Party http://www.green.net.au/arp/ * - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/ until 11 March, 2001 and Recoznettwo is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznettwo%40green.net.au/ from that date. This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the fair use provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for fair use.
