[Biofuel] test
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[Biofuel] test
Mail failed. For further assistance, please contact! ** ** WARNING: WinProxy has detected a virus in file attached to this e-mail message! The attachment has been automatically removed to protect your network. WinProxy Administrator: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 08/28/05 11:20:11 WinProxy (Version 5.1 R1c (5.0.50.8)) - http://www.Ositis.com/ Antivirus Vendor: Panda Software Scan Engine Version: 4.7.0.2_4.1.6.408 Pattern File Version: 3.103390 (Timestamp: 2005/08/27 08:09:35) Machine name: SERVER2005 Machine IP address: 192.168.1.100 Server: 70.85.95.186 Client: 152.96.71.25 Protocol: SMTP Virus: W32/Lovgate.AC.worm found! Attachment: message.pif ** ** ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Magnetic boots
Nick, how these work is for 1/2 the magnets to turn over, so cancelling the field when the lever is operated. When closed, all the fields are lined up the magnetic force is strong... regards doug On Sunday 28 August 2005 9:01, Nick Jenny wrote: OK I may have come in late on this but you can cancel a permenant magnetic field, look up magnetic vise or chuck. They are used on milling machines to secure the workpiece. The magnets are swiched off using a lever. No power or external device required. Regards Nick -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of bob allen Sent: Thursday, 25 August 2005 1:18 AM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Magnetic boots ah yes, magnets once again -hold on to your wallet Wes Moore wrote: I received the following a few days ago. I suspect there may be folks on this list who would find this interesting. The source is from Anthony Craddock who organizes info for Dr Tom Bearden . the page that is linked at the bottom also has Tom Bearden’s website linked. Wes Try finding the original magnetic astronauts boots that were developed by NASA. The original boots were excellent. For the acceptance tests, an engineer clad as an astronaut walked across the bottom of a steel beam in a high bay research area, upside down against the pull of Earth's gravity. He /stepped/ as he walked, putting his foot down and then picking it up. There is no problem in finding magnets strong enough to hold the astronaut firmly in such an upside position. The problem with simple magnetic boots using such strong magnets is that, once the foot is planted, unless he is King Kong himself, the astronaut cannot pick up the foot again. However, the Radus boots completely solved that problem. If the permanent magnet fields are switched off uh, how do you switch off a permanent magnet? ans. you don't and everything following is therefore BS for that foot that the astronaut wishes to lift, he can lift it easily and take another step. Then if the fields are switched on again as he places his foot down, this switching of the fields allows him to walk in a manner resembling normal walking, though a little slower. To do that switching by normal battery and coils would be prohibitively bulky and heavy and awkward to say the least. With the Radus boots, the astronaut could pick up his foot by simply switching off the permanent magnetic fields easily. They switched on again when he placed the foot down. And he did not have to carry a huge battery around with him, to furnish enormous current to do that. Well, it doesn't take a genius to see that, when you can switch a permanent magnet's fields easily, and the magnet also has a built-in memory as did the Radus magnets, then with a little ingenuity in switching one could use such switchable magnets to produce a self-switching, self-powered permanent magnet motor. oooh, free energy The magnet, being a permanent dipole, is already a particular kind of free energy generator, since it continuously gates magnetic energy no such thing as magnetic energy directly from the vacuum due to its asymmetry in the energetic vacuum flux. From the energy barons' viewpoint, those Radus magnets and Radus boots had to go, and go quickly. And go they did. nonsense So NASA then developed the present shuffler kind of magnetic boots where the astronaut can't pull his boot loose from the surface, but must scoot his feet along in a sliding and painfully awkward fashion. That way, you see, no one can use the boot magnets which now are just rather ordinary permanent magnets, without memories and without switchable fields to make an overunity device or a self-powering permanent magnet engine. Tom Bearden Radus family members have now very kindly provided photos of the original boots, which can be seen at http://www.cheniere.org/misc/astroboots.htm -- Bob Allen http://ozarker.org/bob Science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves — Richard Feynman ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Magnetic boots
They are not switched off -- they are removed by the lever. The force distance product of the lever was the input energy to produce what you call switched off. Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Pat Robertson's business affiliation with Hugo Chavez
On Aug 27, 2005, at 10:41 PM, Mike Weaver wrote: Oh, I don't mind a few shots - been known to dish them out myself! I guess I would turn the tables and ask if you ever heard of an actual communist system? I can't think of one. Almost all had major built in flaws, ranging from phony economic figures to police state governments. I've never heard of a state actually withering away ;-) Italy, Russia, the Soviet bloc. Hi Mike, I think that communism may only work well with very small populations, 'tribe sized', say ... less than a thousand citizen/members. The best example I know is the Israeli communes, where each formed a single economic unit in the larger democractic-capitalistic state. The Israeli communes, of which my extended family has intimate knowledge, were essentially worker-owned corporations, with all participants drawing almost identical wages, and enjoying the same standard of living. In the successful, well-organized communes, they often incorporated farming, craft and art work, and light industries, to realize a high standard of living and significant profits. Even this example has a dark underbelly: (besides palestine) the third generation is leaving the communes to work in the cities. The communes must recruit idealistic immigrants or fold from labor shortages. I'm of an age to have participated in and observed the communal efforts of the 60s and 70s here in the US. We were often spoiled, ill-prepared city dwellers, with little understanding of soil qualities, land management, husbandry, or work ethic. But even here, against a great deal of government persecution, some efforts did succeed, but usually only for a few generations. OTOH, I can't say I can think of a pure and functional democractic-capitalistic state either. Certainly not here or in Europe. As I said earlier, I think the best bet is a robust economy with some socialistic (There! I said it!) notions thrown in. As the large countries of Eastern Europe are (and have) learned, you can't just conjure an economy. You have to have money to make the goodies flow. Too high a tax rate, and most of the businesses leave for greener pastures. Look at the film industry in the UK. Up until Thatcher (and no, I am NOT a big fan) came in, they country taxed them into...the US! Now of course, our own companies are fleeing to Canada because they have *gasp* socialised medicine. I will never understand why the US is so anti socialised medicine. Jeez, even in the Red state of Virginia we have socialized schools, trash pickup, water why not health care? Beats me. If Medicare and Medicade is so popular, and efficient, then why not expand it? Just another example of our wealthy masters' propaganda machinery persuading the majority to vote against their own interests. I can't speak for medicaid, run by the states individually, but I spent a few years as my grandmother's guardian, navigating social security and medicare for her. Let me assure you that the neocon propaganda against social security and medicare is purest BS. They are incredibly well run, far better than any private insurance company I've ever dealt with. The administration overhead for both systems is much less than similar private systems. While doctors often bitch about the low reimbursement rates from medicare, they will quickly admit that the system is very competent. (Especially those doctors imprisoned for medicare fraud.) Medicare works almost perfectly, it would be an excellent model for a nationalized health plan. In fact, the only problems with medicare are those being caused by the new drug bill recently passed by the republican congress, which was a huge corporate welfare gift to drug manufacturers, at the expense of consumers and taxpayers. Taryn ornae.com -Mike TarynToo wrote: It's impossible to say Communism would've collapsed even w/o our help, since every state that has attempted communism, with few exceptions, has been destroyed by the U.S.A. and its allies using some combination of economic warfare, bribery and corruption, economic and military support of 'counter-revolutionaries', and support of handy fascist states. .and other comments... ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] SPAM:(L1) hello
The message contains Unicode characters and has been sent as a binary attachment. ** ** WARNING: WinProxy has detected a virus in file attached to this e-mail message! The attachment has been automatically removed to protect your network. WinProxy Administrator: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 08/28/05 12:38:56 WinProxy (Version 5.1 R1c (5.0.50.8)) - http://www.Ositis.com/ Antivirus Vendor: Panda Software Scan Engine Version: 4.7.0.2_4.1.6.408 Pattern File Version: 3.103390 (Timestamp: 2005/08/27 08:09:35) Machine name: SERVER2005 Machine IP address: 192.168.1.100 Server: 70.85.95.186 Client: 152.96.71.25 Protocol: SMTP Virus: W32/Lovgate.AC.worm found! Attachment: body.scr ** ** ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] PLEASE READ - Re: hi
That was not from me, as usual it's a virus using a false address - if you go on the Internet, your address gets hijacked by viruses, it's happened to all of us by now. NOTE that it failed - the mailing list computer stripped off the virus attachment BEFORE sending the empty email message on to the list members. That's why the list doesn't accept attachments, it's an essential anti-virus measure. Best wishes Keith Addison Journey to Forever KYOTO Pref., Japan http://journeytoforever.org/ Biofuel list owner From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2005 11:07:04 -0700 Mail failed. For further assistance, please contact! ** ** WARNING: WinProxy has detected a virus in file attached to this e-mail message! The attachment has been automatically removed to protect your network. WinProxy Administrator: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 08/28/05 11:01:49 WinProxy (Version 5.1 R1c (5.0.50.8)) - http://www.Ositis.com/ Antivirus Vendor: Panda Software Scan Engine Version: 4.7.0.2_4.1.6.408 Pattern File Version: 3.103390 (Timestamp: 2005/08/27 08:09:35) Machine name: SERVER2005 Machine IP address: 192.168.1.100 Server: 70.85.95.186 Client: 152.96.71.25 Protocol: SMTP Virus: W32/Lovgate.AC.worm found! Attachment: document.zip ** ** ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Robertson et al VS. followers
Cliff, we are all here to discuss learn. Do not be afraid to state a view that is not widely held. It is only by airing these views that we can either be convinced by you, or you by us to lead a better, more peaceful existence. regards Doug (an Aussie...) On Sunday 28 August 2005 2:17, Clif Caldwell wrote: Hello Keith, As I am fairly new to this list I should have done some achive research before posting. My bad . You obviously have spent quite some time arguing your opinion on these political issues. I have not. I spoke from my convictions not from my expertise. As far as /trolling/ I must admit I am unfamiliar with this term. I assume it has to do with a certain type of behavior on mailing lists or in chat rooms. Since I have very little experience in either arena I will do my best not to do this in the future. I may not be the brightest bulb in the box but I do learn. From now on I will allow these political issues and religious issues to be discussed here without my input. With my somewhat limited verbal sparring skills and my deep seated convictions I would simply get in the way of /meaningful /discussions. Is this penitent enough for you ? The unanimously vehement reaction to my comments speaks volumes. Thanks for the education. It is all your's. I don't mind a good fight but why bother . I will limit my discussions to areas I know even less about, namely building my first biodiesel processor. Have at it. Signing off from this thread and any other remotely related threads. With warm (occassionally very warm) regards, Clif Keith Addison wrote: Hello Clif Keith Addison wrote: My my. And I was just thinking you might be a man who'd do a bit of checking before he shot his foot off. Again. I do rather wonder what you mean when you say right here in America when actually where you are right now is right here on the global Internet, on a global discussion group with a global membership that includes many Muslims living in Muslim countries, who are probably more aware than you are of calls from your country - calls and deeds done - to kill them and their leaders. But that doesn't count, does it? It does here. If you want outrage over the coverage of the war in Iraq you'll find it aplenty, but you won't like it - it's outrage at the unquestioning, knee-jerk coverage your so-called liberal press (ROFL!!!) gave to the pack of blatant lies that led unfailingly to everything and everybody getting torn to pieces in Iraq (as most of us predicted at the time), including your precious military, and every single promise broken. Guilty as accused concerning not backing up my statements. I have remedied this in another post. Well, you haven't given Fred any work, each and every one of your refs has been debunked many times before and it's all in the archives. In Iraq, we're not fighting for ourselves, said Bean, from his home base in Fort Campbell, Ky. We're over there fighting so the Iraqis can have their own Fourth of July. LOL! Yeah, it's not funny, but black humour's a survival trait these days. And guilty as accused as writing from a decidingly US perspective. I have traveled extensively including performing tsunami relief (as a civilian paying my own way) in Banda Aceh, Indonesia (90+ % Isalmic). Please understand that I have cried with, struggled with and even prayed with Muslims and Christians all over the world. (I have carried out humanitarian efforts in Central and South America and Jordan also.) Unfortunately I was not as sensitive as I should have been to all the readers of this list. I am a former officer in the USAF So you keep saying. so perhaps I do have a fondness for the fine, exceedingly capable and patriotic men and women serving to protect and defend a country Americans are inclined to be VERY careful about seeming to criticise that, most will pay it due obeisance. But most people here are not Americans and can be expected to treat it as the false sacred cow that it is. Again, please see the archives, we've had Purple Heart-winning US vets arguing with each here before this. So you might as well stop saying it, it doesn't secure you any high ground. I personally feel is a pretty good place to live. Perhaps I am living under some delusions and if that is the case then I'm sure someone will try to correct the errors of my ways. Thanks for the input. I will give it some thought. Just a guy sorting things out, I wonder. I think you're trolling. You slip in and lay some flame-bait, it duly raises noise and distraction, then you're all penitent about it, and then you do it again, twice so far. I'm not convinced by your penitence this time, and there won't be a third time. Keith Addison Journey to Forever KYOTO Pref., Japan http://journeytoforever.org/ Biofuel list owner Clif Wow and to think that I was going to use this list only to figure out how to
Re: [Biofuel] How to make ehtanol, second try.......
You are right. I just got overwhelmed with the amount of e-mails received, Not so easy to handle a mailing list with hotmail, even a medium-volume list like this one. If you had a real email account you could do this sort of thing: http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg21651.html Or: http://snipurl.com/h9oy Anyway you couldn't have been overwhelmed yet by that stage, the Welcome message was the first message you received when you joined, and the url of the list homepage is at the top of every message you receive from the list. It's here: http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Or: http://snipurl.com/h9p0 thus unable to identify the proper ones. Sorry to ask, but have you identified them yet? Let me put them right up here at the top: There are resources, FAQs, how-to's, full recipes and an online Biofuels Library at the Journey to Forever website, the premier source of small-scale biofuels information: Biofuels http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biodiesel http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel.html Biodiesel - Where do I start? http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html#start Straight vegetable oil (SVO) http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_svo.html Ethanol http://journeytoforever.org/ethanol.html Wood gas http://journeytoforever.org/at_woodfire.html#woodgas Biofuels Library http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library.html Messages to the list can be read on the Web here: http://sustainablelists.org/pipermail/biofuel_sustainablelists.org/ Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ - There are two complete online manuals on making your own ethanol, using fruit is covered, there are designs for stills, how-to's, forums, everything you need. There's also a method of how to make ethanol from sawdust. Whether methanol can or cannot be produced from wood short of a major industrial investment has been recently discussed at the list, you'll find the discussion in the list archives. It's also been discussed many times previously. Using wood as a heating source has also been discussed many times and in many ways, and there are good resources on it at the Journey to Forever website. Best wishes Keith Thank you! - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, August 26, 2005 1:13 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] How to make ehtanol, second try... Hello Wireless Data Transfer Hello there! This is the second time I post this question, since nobody responded to the first time, please advice! I own a fairly big piece of land, in which I grow oranges, and a lot of them fall from the trees and rot on the ground. I have been told that making ethanol from those rotting oranges can be quite simple. I can also have access to an almost unlimited supply of wood chips and sawdust from a nearby lumber yard, from which I read Methanol can be obtained, or those can be turned on fire to run the furnaces to make the Ethanol, right? The main use I will have for either the Ethanol or the Methanol is to fuel a small fleet of cars that I use for traveling back and forth to where the oranges are.The 4 cars combined consume about 50~60 gallons of fuel per month, each. I have found in various places on the Web that Brazil has many vehicles that come from the factory ready to use alcohol as the fuel, but nobody seems to have many details of the systems. I'm looking forward for any suggestions to learn how to produce my own fuel at reduced costs, in order to make my operation as self-sustainable as possible. Thank you in advance! Not in advance, in arrears. When you came to the list you were pointed at the list resources, listed in the Welcome message and at the list homepage, it says this: There are resources, FAQs, how-to's, full recipes and an online Biofuels Library at the Journey to Forever website, the premier source of small-scale biofuels information: Biofuels http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biodiesel http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel.html Biodiesel - Where do I start? http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html#start Straight vegetable oil (SVO) http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_svo.html Ethanol http://journeytoforever.org/ethanol.html Wood gas http://journeytoforever.org/at_woodfire.html#woodgas Biofuels Library http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library.html Messages to the list can be read on the Web here: http://sustainablelists.org/pipermail/biofuel_sustainablelists.org/ Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ - There are two complete online manuals on making your own ethanol, using fruit is covered, there are designs for
[Biofuel] Information needed
Hi Guys, I would like to ask again about two things: Have you any opinion about concentrated aqueous catalyst (www.biodieselgear.com/documentation/AqueousCatalyst.pdf)? Can anyone explain me how could I make paper chromatography test of the BD(the kind of solutions and how to read the results)? Best regards R.S. Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Robertson et al VS. followers
Mike, I did not know of the sedition act of 1918: ...shall willfully utter, print, write, or publish any disloyal, profane, scurrilous, or abusive language about the form of government of the United States, or the Constitution of the United States... This make any talk about freedom of speech a joke. The unravelling of the lack of democracy, has never been so obvious as the execution and results from the two last elections and the way the Iraqi war has been pursued. I still think that Corprocracy is a better word for the governing method of US. It seems that we have to change the phrase the nation of the free to the nation of the blind. To condition the cohabitation of a men and a women on if they are married or not? Do they have to be married to each other, or just married? Is it enough if only one of them is married? This info I keep as one of the most bizarre I have. LOL Hakan At 17:26 27/08/2005, you wrote: Well done Keith. So here we are again, stating the obvious, setting the record straight about a war which violates international laws (which the US helped write, then signed onto) related to justification for war, engagement, torture, detainment and the fabrication of the term enemy combatant which has effectively stripped people of the most basic human rights and left the accuser to decide guilt and length of detainment. It's frightening how the rhetoric says that the US is the land of the free and that it is a model for democracy which should be imposed on other countries considering the fact that there are 4000 federal laws on the books and some of them, along with many state laws dictate what is permissible (or not) in your personal life. For example, in at least two states, it's ILLEGAL for a male and female to cohabitate unless they are married. In my opinion, you can measure how close a country is to being a police state by the number of laws it has. I say all this without even getting started on the constitutional violations contained in the USA Patriot act (as many of us are already aware and have already discussed). Then there is my personal favorite, the sedition act of 1918: ...shall willfully utter, print, write, or publish any disloyal, profane, scurrilous, or abusive language about the form of government of the United States, or the Constitution of the United States... When asked about people in US history who I admire most, I will enthusiastically talk about those who have defended and sometimes died defending freedom within it's borders. Coincidentally, few of those people are politicians. Mike Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My my. And I was just thinking you might be a man who'd do a bit of checking before he shot his foot off. Again. I do rather wonder what you mean when you say right here in America when actually where you are right now is right here on the global Internet, on a global discussion group with a global membership that includes many Muslims living in Muslim countries, who are probably more aware than you are of calls from your country - calls and deeds done - to kill them and their leaders. But that doesn't count, does it? It does here. If you want outrage over the coverage of the war in Iraq you'll find it aplenty, but you won't like it - it's outrage at the unquestioning, knee-jerk coverage your so-called liberal press (ROFL!!!) gave to the pack of blatant lies that led unfailingly to everything and everybody getting torn to pi! eces in Iraq (as most of us predicted at the time), including your precious military, and every single promise broken. Wow and to think that I was going to use this list only to figure out how to titrate WVO correctly. At the risk at attracting perhaps merited flames .. Where is the outrage at the coverage of the war in Iraq ? Have you heard one positive story on NPR or anywhere else ? Where is the outrage at the fine work Michael Moore and numerous others are doing at peddling lies ? Where is the outrage when fine mothers, sisters, sons and fathers who are proud of the service their sons and daughters are offering in the Armed Services are not given any voice and one heartbroken mother is given weeks of press coverage because she is against the war in Irag ? And finally a point that may need some attention by the Men of God judicatory committee on this list : What ex! actly do you mean by that? Where is the outrage at allowing Muslim clerics right here in America to daily call for the UTTER destruction of not only Americans who believe that Allah may not be the way, but also any other infidels? All I'm saying is that I for one feel compelled to be very conscious of my own blind spots as I am chief among those who can stand only by grace . Just a thought to further take this list into a land far away from renewable energy sources. It is not far away from renewable energy sources. I think you should read this carefully, since it looks as if you haven't
Re: [Biofuel] Robertson et al VS. followers
Hello Clif Hello Keith, As I am fairly new to this list I should have done some achive research before posting. My bad . You obviously have spent quite some time arguing your opinion on these political issues. I have not. I spoke from my convictions not from my expertise. Sorry Clif, it's a slimy tactic to say you only lost an argument because your opponent is better at arguing. The reason you lost is that you were indeed arguing from your convictions, and, as many people said, those convictions do not stand up to the test of reality. Neither did your arguments, and that's because they're specious, NOT because you were out-argued. There are folks out there, and I know some of them, who limit their input to sources which reflect only their particular mindset and they reject information from other sources as false or biased whether or not that is indeed true. They want the world to be a mirror image of their cherished beliefs whether or not the beliefs are true, good or wise. That makes no sense. - Gustl, yesterday. One of the fundamental findings of cognitive science is that people think in terms of frames and metaphors - conceptual structures. The frames are in the synapses of our brains - physically present in the form of neural circuitry. When the facts don't fit the frames, the frames are kept and the facts ignored. -- George Lakoff You encounter facts, you argue, you lose, but you deny the facts anyway and defend your cherished notions. That doesn't stop you calling other people liars though, and failing to prove it. You'll keep right on doing it if we let you, but we won't let you. We've seen it all before here, many times, and we don't welcome it. You have to be honest. As far as /trolling/ I must admit I am unfamiliar with this term. I assume it has to do with a certain type of behavior on mailing lists or in chat rooms. Since I have very little experience in either arena I will do my best not to do this in the future. I don't believe you. You don't need a degree in it to be a troll, you know quite well what that certain type of behavior entails. I may not be the brightest bulb in the box but I do learn. We see no evidence of that, what we see is denial. We see denial too in your selective responses to the replies you receive. You can't ignore people here anymore than you can ignore the facts. From now on I will allow these political issues and religious issues to be discussed here without my input. That's nice of you! LOL! Will you allow us to discuss biofuels issues too? Like this for instance? Some of these issues may seem tangential at first. Close examination, however, will reveal how energy use, foreign policy, religious perspective, racism and many other isms blend to create the overall milieu in which the topic of biofuels exist. We who have been here for any length of time agree by consensus that which is deserving of discussion and that which is not. It's remarkably self regulating, for the most part. - Robert I believe I have said this before but I believe that the information we garner and through which we sift is biofuel for the mind. Politics may be and often is heavily discussed but through this we gain an understanding of others who may be vastly different from ourselves and we come to learn that although there are many differences we have a common thread running through this which is that we wish good for ourselves and no harm to others. What gets in the way of this is partisanship whether it is religious, political, economic, racial or whatever else. Through these discussions we get closer to the truth of things and become closer to being an organic whole. - Gustl With my somewhat limited verbal sparring skills and my deep seated convictions I would simply get in the way of /meaningful /discussions. Is this penitent enough for you ? Drop the BS Clif, it doesn't work. The unanimously vehement reaction to my comments speaks volumes. Thanks for the education. It is all your's. I don't mind a good fight but why bother . So Clif retires from the field unscathed, both honour and cherished notions intact. You believe it if you like Clif, the other folks here know different. I will limit my discussions to areas I know even less about, namely building my first biodiesel processor. WE will limit your discussions Clif, if necessary. Let me refer you once again to this: List rules: http://sustainablelists.org/pipermail/biofuel_sustainablelists.org/200 5-May/07.html Or: http://snipurl.com/gi45 Step out of line again and you're gone. Keith Addison Journey to Forever KYOTO Pref., Japan http://journeytoforever.org/ Biofuel list owner Have at it. Signing off from this thread and any other remotely related threads. With warm (occassionally very warm) regards, Clif Keith Addison wrote: Hello Clif Keith Addison wrote: My my. And I was just thinking you might be a man who'd
[Biofuel] Information needed
Hello Rumen Rumen Slavov [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sun Aug 28 03:59:34 EDT 2005 Hi Guys, I would like to ask again about two things: Have you any opinion about concentrated aqueous catalyst (www.biodieselgear.com/documentation/AqueousCatalyst.pdf)? :-) Everybody's been talking about using the list archives, why didn't you give it a try? Anyway. It adds water to a reaction that is already sensitive to water. You have to remove the water from the oil and use 99% plus methanol and anhydrous lye, so why go and put more water back in again? It's just an extra variable, and without any apparent benefit. The results have been put to GC tests and found wanting. The man who invented it (it was first presented here) admits he doesn't use it in test batches because of this variable. It makes sense to minimise variables, not add new ones, especially if you're a novice. It's not safer as it's claimed to be, it involves making two toxic mixtures instead of just one, and its proponents seem to use open containers (and many of the same people often say you can use phenol red for titration, which doesn't work, or that titration isn't necessary, and so on). These are some previous messages in the archives, they include links to water-free, reliable, quick and safe ways to do what the concentrated aqueous catalyst claims to do but doesn't. http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg24897.html Re: [biofuel] Need clearification and advice http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg31293.html Re: [biofuel] First Batch http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg33539.html Re: [biofuel] Methanol and Sodium Hydroxide efficiant mixing method Can anyone explain me how could I make paper chromatography test of the BD(the kind of solutions and how to read the results)? I know it's been done but I don't know how. Paper and/or TFC, thin film chromatography. But they're just words to me. Best wishes Keith Best regards R.S. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Warning to List Members
Hi All, My firewall just blocked a worm sent to me under the guise of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sounds like we´ve got ourselves a nasty troll. Take care. My firewall identifies it as W32/Lovgate AC worm the attachment was a message pif. Tom Irwin___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Mercedes Diesel Suitable?
Hello Peter. I can recommend all MB diesels as ideal for biodiesel. I am into my third now, and there have been no problems whatsoever. Just a small advice though: The grinder on the fuel line just before the feed pump should be moved by longer hosing, in order to become easily replaced from above, if necessary. In any other case you may have to get under the car in order to replace it. That ´s all. Good luck ! Jan WarnqvistAGERATEC AB [EMAIL PROTECTED] + 46 554 201 89+46 70 499 38 45 - Original Message - From: Peter Childers To: BiofuelList Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2005 9:59 PM Subject: [Biofuel] Mercedes Diesel Suitable? This is my first try at this list so excuse me if I don't get it yet. I need to acquire a diesel vehicle before I start to experiment with BioDiesel. I have looked at a Mercedes 300D that has not run in about 4 years and has 165K miles on it. I think it is about a 1985. I haven't talked to the owner yet. Can anyone give me some tips as to whether this car would suit, from an affordability standpoint, using for Biodiesel. I am very skilled mechanically so I can put the vehicle into operation with my own labor, but I expect parts to be expensive. I am not sure what I may need to do to it for Biodiesel. It is a five cylinder but I'm not sure if it is a turbo or not (needs a second look).I am also looking at (preferred) aVolkswagen Rabbit diesel. That one is a long shot right now. Thanks for any help. Peter ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Apology to ...
Anyone who would pick snits over spelling, especially on the internet, would have a few more problems compared to the average bear. No remarks necessary. Todd Swearingen Thomas Kelly wrote: From Problems w. WVO I wrote: Following directions from JtF, and with help from Keith, Todd Swearington, and Marc A, I moved to 15L batches and this past week finished a 130L processor and have run two batches. The first has been washed and is drying, the other is in the wash phase. I also asked the question Am I stupid or what? ANSWER: Yes I am!!! I apologize to Todd Swearingen for misspelling his last name. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Medical was Re: Pat Robertson's business affiliation with Hugo Chavez
Greetings, And who has none? Even in the US, there is medical available. If there isn't, please explain to me how people who have just crossed the Rio Grande are in the hospitals on the US side? There is no problem getting into see the doctor, but getting the surgery is a different tale. There are waiting lists for everything in the Alberta Medical system. One must be exact on this list, so I must mention that there is no such thing as a Canadian medical system, since each province is different and runs their own system. Bright Blessings, Kim At 10:38 PM 8/27/2005, you wrote: Good point, but: 1. What if you don't have or can't get insurance? 2. Last time I checked, it is not illegal to see a doctor in Canada and simply pay for it. It would be silly to wait until you get cancer. Canadians have alternatives too. 3. I would hazard that Canadian medicine, warts and all, is better than none. -Mike Garth Kim Travis wrote: Greetings, I have lived under Canada's medical and the US system, and had cancer in both. I will take the US system any day of the week. Sorry, but sitting on a waiting list waiting to have a pre-cancerous mass removed until it turns into cancer is not my idea of good medicine. Ask any US resident what they think of medicaid, and you get the same answer, surprise, it is the same system with the same faults. The US has socialized medicine, thankfully, they also have alternatives to it. Bright Blessings, Kim At 09:41 PM 8/27/2005, you wrote: If Medicare and Medicade is so popular, and efficient, then why not expand it? -Mike ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Robertson et al VS. followers
To keep the exercise honest, as inevitably will all attorney's involved [chuckle, chuckle, snot, smurf.:-], Robertson's words, mindset and progressive thoughts need to be disected precisely as spoken. Unfortunately for him, he all too quickly took the excercise from the realm of ruminating to advocacy with: We have the ability to take him out, and I think the time has come that we exercise that ability. We don't need another $200 billion war to get rid of one, you know, strong-arm dictator. It's a whole lot easier to have some of the covert operatives do the job and then get it over with. His intial qualifier to that statement of: You know, I don't know about this doctrine of assassination, doesn't suffice as a component of a rumination defense, in light of his transitional words to advocacy with: We have the ability to take him out, followed by: and I think the time has come that we exercise that ability. Mr. Robertson negotiated what initially was a very dangerous exercise in reason and came out of the curve full throttle, rationalizing and advocating, in front of initially millions, and now billions, of persons. The author Dean is perfectly right in his final conclusion. But he unfortunately doesn't deftly identify where Robertson's switching of tracks and self-incrimination occurred. .. On a personal note? As if anyone cares... :-)? Differing ideologies don't need to initiate fatwahs, when houses such as Robertson's and Bush's are egocentrically disposed to implosion. Fanatacism, albeit under any guise or becalmed expression, remains fanatacism, no matter the flag. Todd Swearingen Doug Foskey wrote: Thanks: I find that illuminating to say the least. I personally hope that the US does take this further, otherwise how can they insist foreign powers prosecute their citizens for similar acts (including for instance statements by Mullahs) regards Doug On Sunday 28 August 2005 8:26, S. Chapin wrote: Dear List, A bit about the legal ramifications, though there will be none, of Pat Robertson's statements concerning Chavez. http://writ.news.findlaw.com/dean/20050826.html by John Dean . Cheers, S. Chapin ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Query on MTBE
Hello Members, MTBE Methyl tertiary butyl ether - an oxygenate for blending with gasoline in U.S around 1990, acquired a bad reputation quickly because of its capacity for polluting the environment and affecting human beings. I understand that the groundwater in most parts of US has been polluted with MTBE to varying degrees; it was banned in certain States of US for mixing with gasoline. It is banned in India too, as an oxygenate. Can any of you tell me what could be the possible use of MTBE other than as an oxygenate additivewhen a reputed oil refining and marketing company buys 10 tmt of MTBE from VITOL traders. I want to be doubly sure before raising this in the Indian Press.Thank you. Regards, Subramanian__Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Mercedes Diesel Suitable?
Peter Childers wrote: This is my first try at this list so excuse me if I don't get it yet. I need to acquire a diesel vehicle before I start to experiment with BioDiesel. I have looked at a Mercedes 300D that has not run in about 4 years and has 165K miles on it. I think it is about a 1985. I haven't talked to the owner yet. Can anyone give me some tips as to whether this car would suit, from an affordability standpoint, using for Biodiesel. I am very skilled mechanically so I can put the vehicle into operation with my own labor, but I expect parts to be expensive. I am not sure what I may need to do to it for Biodiesel. It is a five cylinder but I'm not sure if it is a turbo or not (needs a second look). I am also looking at (preferred) a Volkswagen Rabbit diesel. That one is a long shot right now. Thanks for any help. Peter ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Peter, The 300d 123chassis is a fairly bullet proof car, if a bit heavy. The 85 would be the last year, or maybe 86, they were made. Weak points are the climate control device (chrysler) and door lock system. Some automatics had problems, but overall they are comfortable, strong if not blazingly fast transport. Many 240d(4cyl), 300d, 300d turbo and also gas versions were squeezed into the 123. If you can find a manual, mostly european cars, put it in. Mileage will be high 20s-mid 30s. The older 240d, and 220d were in the 115 (maybe 114 I get them mixed up) were lighter I think, and more US cars had the manual, some 5cyl cars are about but mostly the 240. I think a 220d is the record holder for over 1 million miles on the clock... I think. I had an older 190d with over 400k and still running strong on b100 with just a little sweating from fuel lines. Parts can be found, and not terribly expensive unless from the dealer. Try recycle shops and net parts places. Cheers, S.Chapin ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] SPAM:(L1) Good day
The message cannot be represented in 7-bit ASCII encoding and has been sent as a binary attachment. ** ** WARNING: WinProxy has detected a virus in file attached to this e-mail message! The attachment has been automatically removed to protect your network. WinProxy Administrator: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 08/28/05 11:20:22 WinProxy (Version 5.1 R1c (5.0.50.8)) - http://www.Ositis.com/ Antivirus Vendor: Panda Software Scan Engine Version: 4.7.0.2_4.1.6.408 Pattern File Version: 3.103390 (Timestamp: 2005/08/27 08:09:35) Machine name: SERVER2005 Machine IP address: 192.168.1.100 Server: 70.85.95.186 Client: 152.96.71.25 Protocol: SMTP Virus: W32/Mytob.AB.worm found! Attachment: document.zip ** ** ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Robertson et al VS. followers
As quoted here, what I find interesting about the sedition act is the very specific phrasing: ..utter...abusive language about the form of government of the United States, or the Constitution of the United States... In its first few lines the 1918 act forbids lying about the government and the armed forces, interfering with bond sales and recruiting, suborning the military, and implicitly excludes speaking up about criminal politicians, graft, corruption, election fraud, evil law, etc..., and expressly includes only bad-mouthing our representative democracy and our constitution. Compared to the patriot acts this starts out as a jewel of moderation and clarity. When you read the entire act, a very different picture emerges http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sedition_Act_of_1918 It was repealed in 1921, leaving the USA with most of the constitutional protections of free speech and privacy for more than eighty years, until the patriot acts tossed the Bill of Rights into the trash. I'm sure this has been talked to death here already, but I want to point out the incredibly twisted logic that has gripped our government for the last four years: Premise: The terrorists bomb us because they want to destroy our freedoms and democratic way of life Conclusion: Let's win against terrorism by passing laws destroying our freedoms Let's protect democracy by handing our government over to multinational corporations. To protect our democracy, we must retain power at any cost, including the derailing of election safeguards and consistently lying about every aspect of our policies and intentions. We'll make the world safe from terrorism by invading sovereign nations and murdering and crippling huge numbers of Afghanis, Iraqis, and coalition soldiers. If the premise were true, then we've handed the victory to the terrorists in the conclusions. Of course the premise is absurd, half the world (9/10ths?) hates us because we've consistently used our power to advance an agenda of profit first, capitalism first, justice last. Taryn On Aug 28, 2005, at 6:03 AM, Hakan Falk wrote to mike who wrote to keith. Mike, I did not know of the sedition act of 1918: ... Hakan At 17:26 27/08/2005, you wrote: Well done Keith. ... ...shall willfully utter, print, write, or publish any disloyal, profane, scurrilous, or abusive language about the form of government of the United States, or the Constitution of the United States... When asked about people in US history who I admire most, I will enthusiastically talk about those who have defended and sometimes died defending freedom within it's borders. Coincidentally, few of those people are politicians. Mike Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My my. And I was just thinking you might be a man who'd do a bit of ... ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Question on Chevy S10´s
2000 s-10 had a diesel engine in them??? They had a 2.2l 4 cylinder 2.8l 6 cylinder and a 4.3l gas engine in them... i think u can run E85 hi ethanol gass in them but as far as i no chevy has not made a diesel s10 for many years .. they offered a 2.2l diesel in 1983-1986.. Ray J Tom Irwin wrote: Hi All, I was out on Friday looking at pick ups. I saw an 2000 S10 with a 2.8 liter engine. It had about 200,000 km on it. Any problems running BioD in this vehicle? I suspect I´ll have to get the filters changed quite often early on as the BioD will dissolve all the fossil crud. I didn´t have a lot of time to see if it was a computerized injection system. Any help would be appreciated. Tom Irwin ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] There derrivatives of Barrel Oil, have you wondered ?
The reason you pay taxes on gas, diesel or biofuel is for road construction and repair. Hence farmers and off road equipment do not pay taxes on the fuel they use. That's why it's dyed and why you go to jail if found using it on road. Tax evasion. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Have you ever wondered why all oil companies sell barrel oil at the same price ? Scenario; Could it be that all the oil companies are owned by one parent company? why not most other large companies do the same thing, they will have a offshore corporation who will own an onshore LLC or LTD. The company I work for does the same thing, the parent company is in Sweden where foreign source profits are non-taxable, meanwhile it's workers onshore are the ones paying taxes, certainly not them, but taxes are a different animal for another discussion group. A couple other things I do not understand, one ; if we have gained control of a large infrastucture oil producing country why is the price of gasoline still going so high? Did they do this for that objective ? Last thought.. As supposedly a free country why do we need a license and pay a tax to sell something that comes naturally out of the ground such as biofuel ? It seems that this may be a way to control the cost of that too.Myk HillNorth Carolina ___ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Mercedes Diesel Suitable?
Peter Childers wrote: This is my first try at this list so excuse me if I don't get it yet. I need to acquire a diesel vehicle before I start to experiment with BioDiesel. I have looked at a Mercedes 300D that has not run in about 4 years and has 165K miles on it. I think it is about a 1985. I haven't talked to the owner yet. Can anyone give me some tips as to whether this car would suit, from an affordability standpoint, using for Biodiesel. I am very skilled mechanically so I can put the vehicle into operation with my own labor, but I expect parts to be expensive. I am not sure what I may need to do to it for Biodiesel. It is a five cylinder but I'm not sure if it is a turbo or not (needs a second look). I am also looking at (preferred) a Volkswagen Rabbit diesel. That one is a long shot right now. Thanks for any help. Peter ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ I have a 300D Mercedes that runs fine on 50/50 mixture of diesel and virgin soybean oil. I am going to try to convert it to run WVO. The WVO I have collected gels at too high a temperature. I guess I will have use a heater. For parts, try www.germanstar.net. Bob ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Katrina's Effect on Petroleum Prices
I've been watching the progress of the storm. 175mph winds, going dead-on for New Orleans... And I can't help but feel that the oil industry will use this horrible disaster as a change to weasel themselves more money. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Mercedes Diesel Suitable?
Thanks for your response Jan, but what is a "grinder"? Do you mean, maybe alternate word, the Filter? Are you aware of any rubber parts that might need subbing out as I understand that rubber and BioDiesel don't mix? Peter - Original Message - From: Jan Warnqvist To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2005 10:49 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Mercedes Diesel Suitable? Hello Peter. I can recommend all MB diesels as ideal for biodiesel. I am into my third now, and there have been no problems whatsoever. Just a small advice though: The grinder on the fuel line just before the feed pump should be moved by longer hosing, in order to become easily replaced from above, if necessary. In any other case you may have to get under the car in order to replace it. That ´s all. Good luck ! Jan WarnqvistAGERATEC AB [EMAIL PROTECTED] + 46 554 201 89+46 70 499 38 45 - Original Message - From: Peter Childers To: BiofuelList Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2005 9:59 PM Subject: [Biofuel] Mercedes Diesel Suitable? This is my first try at this list so excuse me if I don't get it yet. I need to acquire a diesel vehicle before I start to experiment with BioDiesel. I have looked at a Mercedes 300D that has not run in about 4 years and has 165K miles on it. I think it is about a 1985. I haven't talked to the owner yet. Can anyone give me some tips as to whether this car would suit, from an affordability standpoint, using for Biodiesel. I am very skilled mechanically so I can put the vehicle into operation with my own labor, but I expect parts to be expensive. I am not sure what I may need to do to it for Biodiesel. It is a five cylinder but I'm not sure if it is a turbo or not (needs a second look).I am also looking at (preferred) aVolkswagen Rabbit diesel. That one is a long shot right now. Thanks for any help. Peter ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Bio from Plastics
Hi There, Any body know how toe convert plastics to Biodiesel? Regards Gus Float to fuel plastic-diesel conversion By Rod Myer Energy Reporter August 29, 2005 Page Tools Email to a friend Printer format AUSTRALIA'S nascent biofuels sector will take a step forward today with the launch of the $37.6 million float by Axiom Energy. Following the float, Axiom will take possession of a Laverton plant that produces 10 million litres of biodiesel a year from waste cooking oils and expand it to a capacity of 100 million litres by July. Axiom will also build two plants producing low sulphur diesel from waste plastics on the same site. Axiom has exclusive Australasian rights to a plastics-to-diesel process now in use only in Japan. It plans to roll out 13 further plants over the next five years as it develops a plastics supply, sorting and processing network with Richard Pratt's Visy group. Axiom managing director David Vinson said that of the $37.6 million to be raised in the float, $10.1 million would be used to upgrade the biodiesel plant and $17.6 million would go to developing the two plastics-to-diesel facilities. The Victor Smorgon Group, owners of the Laverton plant and a waste-oil collection network, will receive a $4 million cash payment and 15.1 million Axiom shares, making it a major shareholder with a 14.5 per cent stake. The rest of the cash will cover the costs of the issue and be used as working capital. Advertisement AdvertisementNinety-two-year-old entrepreneur Victor Smorgon developed the existing biodiesel plant at Laverton from what was once a conventional chemical factory. Mr Vinson said the biodiesel and plastics-to-diesel plants were expected to be commissioned next July. In 2007, Axiom will produce 70 million litres of biodiesel and 11.7 million litres of low-sulphur diesel from waste plastics. The plants will be cash flow positive from commissioning and in 2007 revenue of $70.1 million and a net profit of 10.1 million are expected. The company will pay out 40 per cent of profits as dividends. Biodiesel is a renewable fuel capable of reducing greenhouse emissions by up to 92 per cent, Mr Vinson said. Axiom's biodiesel will be mixed with conventional diesel for sale. Diesel made from waste plastics would conform to the reduced sulphur levels to be mandated by the Federal Government in 2006 and would reduce levels of waste plastic going to landfills, he said. Low sulphur diesel produced from plastic wastes is tax free and biodiesel receives a government grant that offsets the current 38¢-a-litre diesel excise. This subsidy will be reduced to 19.1¢ between 2011 and 2015. To cement the joint venture in waste collection Visy will take a small interest in Axiom. Axiom will join a small number of Australian biofuels producers, including Babcock Brown offshoot Environmental Infrastructure, which is building a 150 million litre biodiesel plant in Darwin, and Manildra, which produces ethanol. Axiom's float will be underwritten by ABN Amro Morgans. The Federal Government has set a target of 350 million litres of ethanol and biodiesel to be used to power transport by 2010. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Mercedes Diesel Suitable?
Peter I am on my 3rd Mercedes the mileage you mentioned should be minimal the typically go over 30mi easily. The biggest problem I have found with the 123 seies ( which yours is) is rust in the floors and rocker panels caused by clogged drains . Before you buy the car lift the carpets and check then get under thecar and make sure I just replaced he floor of my beloved 83 300td . THEN if you buy the car change all the fuel filters its pretty easy drieve the car a few weeks and change the filters again . In my experience if these old diesels have been idle the fuel turns to crud. Dont be dissapointed if the car stalls initially my fuel lines eventually got cleaned out it may cost a few filters to get there and yoou will be driving a mercedes and getting pretty respectable mileage .As on any old car expect to replace batteries shocks tie rod s starters and such that is a given however when its akll tweakek youll have a great car thats heavy, safe , and reliable . My 82 was $32000 new according to the old sales inbvoice I found in the glove box . It cost me $2500 and I am up to about $600 by now . Hell I couldnet get a new Hyundai for that . I had an early Rabbit diesel (81) it got me 496 mles on 10 gals on a trip from atlanta to Gainesville once but had to be the scaries trip of my life it was slow lightly built and I felt like a sparrow in a sea of Falcons out there I was relieved when it was stolen the cops promised to find it eventually and I told them " Dont threaten me " End of rant oh yeah I also like old 6,2 litre suburbands and if I had the dough which I dont Iwould conider a Doge truck with thje big Cummins but my first choice would always be Mercedes Good luck Robert - Original Message - From: Peter Childers To: BiofuelList Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2005 3:59 PM Subject: [Biofuel] Mercedes Diesel Suitable? This is my first try at this list so excuse me if I don't get it yet. I need to acquire a diesel vehicle before I start to experiment with BioDiesel. I have looked at a Mercedes 300D that has not run in about 4 years and has 165K miles on it. I think it is about a 1985. I haven't talked to the owner yet. Can anyone give me some tips as to whether this car would suit, from an affordability standpoint, using for Biodiesel. I am very skilled mechanically so I can put the vehicle into operation with my own labor, but I expect parts to be expensive. I am not sure what I may need to do to it for Biodiesel. It is a five cylinder but I'm not sure if it is a turbo or not (needs a second look).I am also looking at (preferred) aVolkswagen Rabbit diesel. That one is a long shot right now. Thanks for any help. Peter ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Best van for WVO?
Your question ad Mel's response made me think, How many brands are there of diesel engine vehicles? So I googled Diesel vehicles Found this first: http://www.gobiodiesel.com/diesel-vehicles.html Anybody want to add comments to a list like this? Bio-best wishes Brian Rodgers ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Mercedes Diesel Suitable?
Thanks for confirming my inexperienced assumption that the MB Diesels are bulletproof. I think as long as the odometer is a true 165K Mi and not the second rotation then the engine should be ok. The climate control and door locks are minor at this stage as I will get it operating with BioDiesel first and worry about the creature comforts later. I would like higher mileage but if I want to step into BioDiesel I can't wait for the perfect car. Unfortunately I can't test the transmission before I buy but the listed value is anywhere from Zero to $250, so the initial money won't be too bad. A good manual should be about $150-$200. Thanks for all the input. Peter - Original Message - From: S. Chapin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2005 11:49 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Mercedes Diesel Suitable? Peter Childers wrote: This is my first try at this list so excuse me if I don't get it yet. I need to acquire a diesel vehicle before I start to experiment with BioDiesel. I have looked at a Mercedes 300D that has not run in about 4 years and has 165K miles on it. I think it is about a 1985. I haven't talked to the owner yet. Can anyone give me some tips as to whether this car would suit, from an affordability standpoint, using for Biodiesel. I am very skilled mechanically so I can put the vehicle into operation with my own labor, but I expect parts to be expensive. I am not sure what I may need to do to it for Biodiesel. It is a five cylinder but I'm not sure if it is a turbo or not (needs a second look). I am also looking at (preferred) a Volkswagen Rabbit diesel. That one is a long shot right now. Thanks for any help. Peter ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Peter, The 300d 123chassis is a fairly bullet proof car, if a bit heavy. The 85 would be the last year, or maybe 86, they were made. Weak points are the climate control device (chrysler) and door lock system. Some automatics had problems, but overall they are comfortable, strong if not blazingly fast transport. Many 240d(4cyl), 300d, 300d turbo and also gas versions were squeezed into the 123. If you can find a manual, mostly european cars, put it in. Mileage will be high 20s-mid 30s. The older 240d, and 220d were in the 115 (maybe 114 I get them mixed up) were lighter I think, and more US cars had the manual, some 5cyl cars are about but mostly the 240. I think a 220d is the record holder for over 1 million miles on the clock... I think. I had an older 190d with over 400k and still running strong on b100 with just a little sweating from fuel lines. Parts can be found, and not terribly expensive unless from the dealer. Try recycle shops and net parts places. Cheers, S.Chapin ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Warning to List Members
Hi, Friends, It seems to me all of you are intelligent persons, so I wonder why you are using Microsoft bullsh...? As far as it is well known, there is not such animal - virus or worm or Trojan - for Linux! For some time now there are several distribution of Live CD`s, which work even in an empty hard like Knoppix and many others! My OS is Slackware Linux 10.1 and I never had any problems in the net. And it is free of charge. The OppenOffice 1.1.4 office is well ahead of MS office - it opens files no matter which application is involved in the creation ( for example MS office XP can not open document written with MS office 97). Everything can be downloaded free from the net and the distributions are equipped with more than 2000 applications! All you need is to compile idconfig (the network connection) and you are free of problems. Me, personally, I do not have antivirus - I don`t need it. Try Linux! Best - R. Slavov Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Information needed
Hi all,Hi Keith, Thanks for the advice, I had my doubts, but needed assurance from an advanced biodieseler. As a mater of fact I did some tests using conc. aque. cat. and had problems washing it. As for my second question, the technology is simple, but one has to know which solutions must be involved in the paper or thin layer chromatography. Hopefully someone with more scientific background will read the message and tell as all how to make real direct tests of the quality of the BD! Best to all! R. Slavov __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Warning to List Members
Hi All, My firewall just blocked a worm sent to me under the guise of mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sounds[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sounds like we´ve got ourselves a nasty troll. Take care. My firewall identifies it as W32/Lovgate AC worm the attachment was a message pif. Tom Irwin It's not a troll, it's just a new virus stealing people's email addresses from address books and emails on infected computers (MILLIONS of them) and using them as false sender's addresses, same as usual. I'm not infected, Journey to Forever isn't infected, and the list isn't infected either. Some people have reported receiving virus messages claiming to come from biofuel@sustainablelists.org, but they're also frauds, the list cannot distribute viruses. Best wishes Keith Addison Journey to Forever KYOTO Pref., Japan http://journeytoforever.org/ Biofuel list owner ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Bio from Plastics
Hi Gus Hi There, Any body know how toe convert plastics to Biodiesel? Can't, biodiesel's made from triglycerides. Some plastics are biodegradable and some are derived from biomass, but I think whatever you might turn them into it wouldn't be biodiesel, ie FAME or FAEE. The Japanese process mentioned below was developed by a university professor over 10 years. It's an expensive, high-tech set-up, not for the likes of us in our backyards. Best wishes Keith Regards Gus Float to fuel plastic-diesel conversion By Rod Myer Energy Reporter August 29, 2005 Page Tools Email to a friend Printer format AUSTRALIA'S nascent biofuels sector will take a step forward today with the launch of the $37.6 million float by Axiom Energy. Following the float, Axiom will take possession of a Laverton plant that produces 10 million litres of biodiesel a year from waste cooking oils and expand it to a capacity of 100 million litres by July. Axiom will also build two plants producing low sulphur diesel from waste plastics on the same site. Axiom has exclusive Australasian rights to a plastics-to-diesel process now in use only in Japan. It plans to roll out 13 further plants over the next five years as it develops a plastics supply, sorting and processing network with Richard Pratt's Visy group. Axiom managing director David Vinson said that of the $37.6 million to be raised in the float, $10.1 million would be used to upgrade the biodiesel plant and $17.6 million would go to developing the two plastics-to-diesel facilities. The Victor Smorgon Group, owners of the Laverton plant and a waste-oil collection network, will receive a $4 million cash payment and 15.1 million Axiom shares, making it a major shareholder with a 14.5 per cent stake. The rest of the cash will cover the costs of the issue and be used as working capital. Advertisement AdvertisementNinety-two-year-old entrepreneur Victor Smorgon developed the existing biodiesel plant at Laverton from what was once a conventional chemical factory. Mr Vinson said the biodiesel and plastics-to-diesel plants were expected to be commissioned next July. In 2007, Axiom will produce 70 million litres of biodiesel and 11.7 million litres of low-sulphur diesel from waste plastics. The plants will be cash flow positive from commissioning and in 2007 revenue of $70.1 million and a net profit of 10.1 million are expected. The company will pay out 40 per cent of profits as dividends. Biodiesel is a renewable fuel capable of reducing greenhouse emissions by up to 92 per cent, Mr Vinson said. Axiom's biodiesel will be mixed with conventional diesel for sale. Diesel made from waste plastics would conform to the reduced sulphur levels to be mandated by the Federal Government in 2006 and would reduce levels of waste plastic going to landfills, he said. Low sulphur diesel produced from plastic wastes is tax free and biodiesel receives a government grant that offsets the current 38¢-a-litre diesel excise. This subsidy will be reduced to 19.1¢ between 2011 and 2015. To cement the joint venture in waste collection Visy will take a small interest in Axiom. Axiom will join a small number of Australian biofuels producers, including Babcock Brown offshoot Environmental Infrastructure, which is building a 150 million litre biodiesel plant in Darwin, and Manildra, which produces ethanol. Axiom's float will be underwritten by ABN Amro Morgans. The Federal Government has set a target of 350 million litres of ethanol and biodiesel to be used to power transport by 2010. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Best van for WVO?
Your question ad Mel's response made me think, How many brands are there of diesel engine vehicles? So I googled Diesel vehicles Found this first: http://www.gobiodiesel.com/diesel-vehicles.html Anybody want to add comments to a list like this? Only this, which was made here: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_UScars.html Diesels in the US In other countries of course you can get any diesel you want. Best wishes Keith Bio-best wishes Brian Rodgers ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Robertson et al VS. followers
Hi Todd Dogonnit Keith, Sorry about that. If the guy is going to behave in such a fashion, those who have to suffer it should at least be able to grill him about his generalities and stereotyping until he's forced to admit that there is a lot more to the bag of beans than he would care to recognize. He won't admit it if he doesn't want to, no matter what you do, you've seen it yourself. Anyway, he's been here for two and a half years already, if he doesn't care to recognise it by now, then again he doesn't want to. (I guess that's his prerogative, but it's not his prerogative to dump it on us, nor on anybody.) Grilling him's unlikely to get anywhere, countering his views would show him up to everyone else but he still wouldn't see it. I think there's no shortage of such demonstrations in the list archives and I doubt doing it again this time would have added anything. Just throttling the guy lets him off too easy. Now it's he who gets to claim that his sensibilities were offended, further enforcing and propigating his peculiar beliefs elsewhere. Give 'em enough rope to hang themselves. If they're smart, they won't use it all. Wouldn't it be true that if they were smart they wouldn't do it in the first place? He already hanged himself, he ignored everything and everyone, that's not smart. If they aren't, the world should at least be given the pleasure of watching them swing at the end of the yardarm of their own making. :-) Do you mean in the sense that justice must be seen to be done or something like that? You might have a point. But really it just wastes time, it's a distraction, it clutters the place up, makes it more difficult for serious people to carry on a reasonable discussion. It's exactly that kind of crap that's truly off-topic. It doesn't take much to drag a list down, as we all know, just one or two heedless people who want it all their own way. It's because this kept happening time and time again that people started yelling NO TOPIC-COPS! in the first place, years ago. We had it all out then, a few times, and that's when the rule was made. We formalised it a year ago, me and a group of list members, the whole list concurred, and that's that. Now it happens much less. Has anything much changed, is there anything more to it now than the following? What does it amount to anyway? You're only allowed to talk about what **I** want to talk about? Usually it's either that or a poorly disguised demand for censorship. Or a complaint that there isn't any censorship, which looks like Duff's case. Not that he'd call it censorship. There's been a constant trickle of these people for nearly five years, and what most of them have in common is that no matter what you do, no matter what's proved or disproved and resides in a publicly accessible archives for all to see, if he wants to claim that it's his sensibilities that were offended and wants to propagate his beliefs elsewhere, HE'LL DO IT ANYWAY. Another thing we've found is that it doesn't matter. If people are smart they'll check, ask a few questions, and quickly discover that he's full of it. If not, then the same applies - what does it matter? Todd, I'm not just dismissing what you say, you make some good points, as ever. I'll surely keep them in mind. Too late this time though. I should say I don't know what Duff will do or won't do, I'm not trying to hang all this on him personally, all I can say is how other people who've expressed the same views have behaved in the past. Anyway it's not my concern. My often-stated position is that as list-owner my first obligation is to the list itself and the issues it represents, my second obligation is to the individual members, UNTIL they put the first obligation at risk. We do everything we can to make sure list members know what kind of community they've joined and how to get the best out of it, if they don't take any notice that's their problem. It's their loss too - it wouldn't be easy to persuade me that heedless and selfish people are any loss to the list. It isn't here for outreach, it doesn't have a missionary role, it's only here to be useful to its members (many of whom use it as a source for their own outreach). Hey, Todd, all this isn't aimed at you either, just restating policy. Best wishes Keith Addison Journey to Forever KYOTO Pref., Japan http://journeytoforever.org/ Biofuel list owner Todd Swearingen Keith Addison wrote: Greetings to all, I am an avid alternative fuel advocate who is building a large home sized processor. I do hope you will read this and maybe it will help get us back on track!!All this talk of politics as far as I am concerned is for the most part way out of line,and with a lot of misconceptions toward a political adjenda.We All need to get focused on what and where we are headed with the alternative energy issues,and stop talking about all these politics, and put our time and money where
Re: [Biofuel] Warning to List Members
I have heard of several viruses for Linux and apple stuff Ray J Rumen Slavov wrote: Hi, Friends, It seems to me all of you are intelligent persons, so I wonder why you are using Microsoft bullsh...? As far as it is well known, there is not such animal - virus or worm or Trojan - for Linux! For some time now there are several distribution of Live CD`s, which work even in an empty hard like Knoppix and many others! My OS is Slackware Linux 10.1 and I never had any problems in the net. And it is free of charge. The OppenOffice 1.1.4 office is well ahead of MS office - it opens files no matter which application is involved in the creation ( for example MS office XP can not open document written with MS office 97). Everything can be downloaded free from the net and the distributions are equipped with more than 2000 applications! All you need is to compile idconfig (the network connection) and you are free of problems. Me, personally, I do not have antivirus - I don`t need it. Try Linux! Best - R. Slavov Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Warning to List Members
I assure you that worms and viruses exist for linux. In fact, the first big Internet worm was a unix (almost identical to Linux) worm. Google Robert Morris. Ray J wrote: I have heard of several viruses for Linux and apple stuff Ray J Rumen Slavov wrote: Hi, Friends, It seems to me all of you are intelligent persons, so I wonder why you are using Microsoft bullsh...? As far as it is well known, there is not such animal - virus or worm or Trojan - for Linux! For some time now there are several distribution of Live CD`s, which work even in an empty hard like Knoppix and many others! My OS is Slackware Linux 10.1 and I never had any problems in the net. And it is free of charge. The OppenOffice 1.1.4 office is well ahead of MS office - it opens files no matter which application is involved in the creation ( for example MS office XP can not open document written with MS office 97). Everything can be downloaded free from the net and the distributions are equipped with more than 2000 applications! All you need is to compile idconfig (the network connection) and you are free of problems. Me, personally, I do not have antivirus - I don`t need it. Try Linux! Best - R. Slavov Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] 50/50 WVO mix in MB 300D
-- ___ Using a heater is usually recommended. If you are in a colder climate (I am in Florida) some also use a separate small dino diesel tank for starting. This also requires a switch (tank A / tank B). You should switch tanks before shutting down to get the dino into the fuel system for the next start. That being said, if your WVO is gelling at too high a temperature consider the source. Does it have too much animal fat? Is there water in it? I am running a 300SD on pretty much 100% FILTERED WVO. It is obtained from a fairly upscale restaurant. Mostly has been used for light frying of vegetables. Sometimes it is 'cloudy' and thick, sometimes it is clear and golden in color. I discard the cloudy oil, or put it into a settling tank. I do not use the bottom of this tank. I expect to need to increase my dino input for winter's operation even here. Regards to Hakan and Keith - I am with you, brothers _ I have a 300D Mercedes that runs fine on 50/50 mixture of diesel and virgin soybean oil. I am going to try to convert it to run WVO. The WVO I have collected gels at too high a temperature. I guess I will have use a heater. For parts, try www.germanstar.net Bob ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] biodiesel from plastic
If my memory serves me right, biodiesel from plastic is neither bio nor diesel The petroleum products from the feedstock (oil) in plastics can be reclaimed by heating in an oxygen deficient atmosphere. High enough temperatures will break the plastics down to a liquid and then gas. The gas is collected and has the approximate btu content of methane (perhaps more). Some will coalesce, or condense into an oily substance. I suppose this substance can be refined to act like a diesel fuel. It has many btu's in it too. AK ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] biodiesel from plastic
But what are you going to burn to attain high enough temperatures to break down the plastics so you can get more fuel to process more plastics? On 8/28/2005, Andy Karpay [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If my memory serves me right, biodiesel from plastic is neither bio nor diesel The petroleum products from the feedstock (oil) in plastics can be reclaimed by heating in an oxygen deficient atmosphere. High enough temperatures will break the plastics down to a liquid and then gas. The gas is collected and has the approximate btu content of methane (perhaps more). Some will coalesce, or condense into an oily substance. I suppose this substance can be refined to act like a diesel fuel. It has many btu's in it too. AK ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] The myth behind non-taxable, off-road fuel was Re: There derrivatives of Barrel Oil, have you wondered ?
That's only partially true. Compare the price of off-road and on-road diesel. You'll note that the difference is not the approximate $0.50 in state and federal excise taxes assessed per gallon. It's closer to $0.25 per gallon. The petroleum distributors claim that it costs approximately $0.25 per gallon to dye the off-road fuel and then carry the two separate inventories. While part of that argument holds water, most off-road fuel is sold in bulk quantities by specific distributors, not every island at every fuel depot. Essentially, the tax break the government giveth, the petroleum distributors taketh away. Todd Swearingen Marty Phee wrote: The reason you pay taxes on gas, diesel or biofuel is for road construction and repair. Hence farmers and off road equipment do not pay taxes on the fuel they use. That's why it's dyed and why you go to jail if found using it on road. Tax evasion. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Have you ever wondered why all oil companies sell barrel oil at the same price ? Scenario; Could it be that all the oil companies are owned by one parent company? why not most other large companies do the same thing, they will have a offshore corporation who will own an onshore LLC or LTD. The company I work for does the same thing, the parent company is in Sweden where foreign source profits are non-taxable, meanwhile it's workers onshore are the ones paying taxes, certainly not them, but taxes are a different animal for another discussion group. A couple other things I do not understand, one ; if we have gained control of a large infrastucture oil producing country why is the price of gasoline still going so high? Did they do this for that objective ? Last thought.. As supposedly a free country why do we need a license and pay a tax to sell something that comes naturally out of the ground such as biofuel ? It seems that this may be a way to control the cost of that too.Myk HillNorth Carolina ___ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Warning to List Members
At present Linux viruses number less than 100. Since a lot of government entitiies are moving to Linux I assure you these numbers WILL change. A good article at: http://www.desktoplinux.com/articles/AT3307459975.html here is the description of the article -- go to link to read. The virus threat to Linux by Jill RatkevicDo you really need to install antivirus software on your LinuxOS-based computer? You just might. The topic of computer viruses and Linux has caused considerable discussion in recent weeks. Mixed computing environments, servers, and growing market share all increase the risk of Linux as a target and vehicle for malicious viruses. DesktopLinux.com talks with CEO Keith Peer of top Linux antivirus vendor Central Command to discover where vulnerabilities exist, the cost to companies, and the growing interest in Linux from virus writers . . . I assure you that worms and viruses exist for linux. In fact, the first big Internet worm was a unix (almost identical to Linux) worm. Google Robert Morris.Ray J wrote:I have heard of several viruses for Linux and apple stuffRay JRumen Slavov wrote: Hi, Friends, It seems to me all of you are intelligent persons,so I wonder why you are using Microsoft bullsh...? Asfar as it is well known, there is not such animal -virus or worm or Trojan - for Linux! For some time nowthere are several distribution of Live CD`s, whichwork even in an empty hard like Knoppix and manyothers! My OS is Slackware Linux 10.1 and I never hadany problems in the net. Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Robertson et al VS. followers
And I was so looking forward to see how he would set his own noose in motion by his own processes. Oh well. Keith Addison wrote: Hi Todd Dogonnit Keith, Sorry about that. If the guy is going to behave in such a fashion, those who have to suffer it should at least be able to grill him about his generalities and stereotyping until he's forced to admit that there is a lot more to the bag of beans than he would care to recognize. He won't admit it if he doesn't want to, no matter what you do, you've seen it yourself. Anyway, he's been here for two and a half years already, if he doesn't care to recognise it by now, then again he doesn't want to. (I guess that's his prerogative, but it's not his prerogative to dump it on us, nor on anybody.) Grilling him's unlikely to get anywhere, countering his views would show him up to everyone else but he still wouldn't see it. I think there's no shortage of such demonstrations in the list archives and I doubt doing it again this time would have added anything. Just throttling the guy lets him off too easy. Now it's he who gets to claim that his sensibilities were offended, further enforcing and propigating his peculiar beliefs elsewhere. Give 'em enough rope to hang themselves. If they're smart, they won't use it all. Wouldn't it be true that if they were smart they wouldn't do it in the first place? He already hanged himself, he ignored everything and everyone, that's not smart. If they aren't, the world should at least be given the pleasure of watching them swing at the end of the yardarm of their own making. :-) Do you mean in the sense that justice must be seen to be done or something like that? You might have a point. But really it just wastes time, it's a distraction, it clutters the place up, makes it more difficult for serious people to carry on a reasonable discussion. It's exactly that kind of crap that's truly off-topic. It doesn't take much to drag a list down, as we all know, just one or two heedless people who want it all their own way. It's because this kept happening time and time again that people started yelling NO TOPIC-COPS! in the first place, years ago. We had it all out then, a few times, and that's when the rule was made. We formalised it a year ago, me and a group of list members, the whole list concurred, and that's that. Now it happens much less. Has anything much changed, is there anything more to it now than the following? What does it amount to anyway? You're only allowed to talk about what **I** want to talk about? Usually it's either that or a poorly disguised demand for censorship. Or a complaint that there isn't any censorship, which looks like Duff's case. Not that he'd call it censorship. There's been a constant trickle of these people for nearly five years, and what most of them have in common is that no matter what you do, no matter what's proved or disproved and resides in a publicly accessible archives for all to see, if he wants to claim that it's his sensibilities that were offended and wants to propagate his beliefs elsewhere, HE'LL DO IT ANYWAY. Another thing we've found is that it doesn't matter. If people are smart they'll check, ask a few questions, and quickly discover that he's full of it. If not, then the same applies - what does it matter? Todd, I'm not just dismissing what you say, you make some good points, as ever. I'll surely keep them in mind. Too late this time though. I should say I don't know what Duff will do or won't do, I'm not trying to hang all this on him personally, all I can say is how other people who've expressed the same views have behaved in the past. Anyway it's not my concern. My often-stated position is that as list-owner my first obligation is to the list itself and the issues it represents, my second obligation is to the individual members, UNTIL they put the first obligation at risk. We do everything we can to make sure list members know what kind of community they've joined and how to get the best out of it, if they don't take any notice that's their problem. It's their loss too - it wouldn't be easy to persuade me that heedless and selfish people are any loss to the list. It isn't here for outreach, it doesn't have a missionary role, it's only here to be useful to its members (many of whom use it as a source for their own outreach). Hey, Todd, all this isn't aimed at you either, just restating policy. Best wishes Keith Addison Journey to Forever KYOTO Pref., Japan http://journeytoforever.org/ Biofuel list owner Todd Swearingen Keith Addison wrote: Greetings to all, I am an avid alternative fuel advocate who is building a large home sized processor. I do hope you will read this and maybe it will help get us back on track!!All this talk of politics as far as I am concerned is for the most part way out of line,and with a lot of misconceptions toward a political
Re: [Biofuel] Warning to List Members
It is one or more members of the list that got a virus and it is going through saved email and send to the addresses. It is a quite normal behavior from a virus. It will pick both receiver and sender, so it is very difficult to identify the computer who sends it, other than with the IP addresses. The list it safe, but it is a reason for everybody to check their computers. Personally I use Eudora, a free email client and also in my opinion the best, since it do not execute any attachments. Outlook is very dangerous and also have some Microsoft handles in it. I also use Norton and do very frequent virus scans and it scans my mail. I never open an attachment, I never open anything that is not expected and I am not sure of the origin and that it is safe. Even if a friend send an unexpected attachment, I ask him before I open it. I have friends who loves to send jokes and funny pictures around, but I never open them, since this is the sure way to get surprises. Hakan At 20:45 28/08/2005, you wrote: Hi All, My firewall just blocked a worm sent to me under the guise of mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:Keit [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sounds[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sounds like we´ve got ourselves a nasty troll. Take care. My firewall identifies it as W32/Lovgate AC worm the attachment was a message pif. Tom Irwin It's not a troll, it's just a new virus stealing people's email addresses from address books and emails on infected computers (MILLIONS of them) and using them as false sender's addresses, same as usual. I'm not infected, Journey to Forever isn't infected, and the list isn't infected either. Some people have reported receiving virus messages claiming to come from biofuel@sustainablelists.org, but they're also frauds, the list cannot distribute viruses. Best wishes Keith Addison Journey to Forever KYOTO Pref., Japan http://journeytoforever.org/ Biofuel list owner ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Warning to List Members
Hi, this is why I use Linux as an operating system (as do some others on the list). Linux systems have none of the Microsoft 'hooks' that the most common virii use. I have noticed a few members are sending HTML emails. Could I request that everyone sends in plain text? (this is achieved by going into the email program setup and either turning off HTML or turning on 'text only', depending on the email client.) Hakan has given good advice with attachments. Well worth following. As an aside, it is now possible to run Linux from a CD/DVD, without a full system install. This means that if you wish, you can use Linux for browsing, email (But of course you would need to reload that other operating system to run some of the 'normal' programs, until you see the light realise that there are other options that are usually free as well). regards Doug On Monday 29 August 2005 6:46, Hakan Falk wrote: It is one or more members of the list that got a virus and it is going through saved email and send to the addresses. It is a quite normal ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] biodiesel from plastic
Message: 8 Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2005 16:01:50 -0500 From: John Mullan [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] biodiesel from plastic To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org But what are you going to burn to attain high enough temperatures to break down the plastics so you can get more fuel to process more plastics? Well, this borders on over unity, (which it is not), and is mostly theoretical in nature, but I have seen it almost work. Imagine a piece of paper (or plastic) burning. Now, this give off enough energy to 1) emit light 2) emit heat 3) emit enough energy to heat a portion next to the flame enough to vaporize and 4) ignite to continue burning. Now, imagine, taking the constituents out into separate paths, use the gas and some oil for a heat source, continue processing. In theory, there is enough energy to heat the plastic and vaporize (but not burn). Instead of burning the gas you re-introduce it to burn externally and give its heat to the process. Thermal Depolymerization or Pyrolisis, is being used, or at least experimented with. It works for not only plastics but also rubbers, tires, manures, coal, and other carbonatious materials such as 'turkey guts'. Some have greater energy output than others. AK On 8/28/2005, Andy Karpay [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If my memory serves me right, biodiesel from plastic is neither bio nor diesel The petroleum products from the feedstock (oil) in plastics can be reclaimed by heating in an oxygen deficient atmosphere. High enough temperatures will break the plastics down to a liquid and then gas. The gas is collected and has the approximate btu content of methane (perhaps more). Some will coalesce, or condense into an oily substance. I suppose this substance can be refined to act like a diesel fuel. It has many btu's in it too. AK ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Best van for WVO?
VW transporter runs best in europe Biofuel@sustainablelists.org wrote: Where are you? There isn't much in the US, but Europe and other places have pretty good options. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Advice requested - What's a decent diesel van that could hold six or seven people comfortably? Can be a traditional style van, or a bigger model - a mail truck or small step van that we can make into a miniature camper/day-tripper. I'm looking to replace a Grand Caravan with something that will take a WVO conversion. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ - Find the home of your dreams with eircom net property Sign up for email alerts now http://www.eircom.net/propertyalerts ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Robertson et al VS. followers
wait...are talking about Streeter or the Bush administration? I want my SUV sung to the tune of I want my MTV... Appal Energy wrote: And I was so looking forward to see how he would set his own noose in motion by his own processes. Oh well. Keith Addison wrote: Hi Todd Dogonnit Keith, Sorry about that. If the guy is going to behave in such a fashion, those who have to suffer it should at least be able to grill him about his generalities and stereotyping until he's forced to admit that there is a lot more to the bag of beans than he would care to recognize. He won't admit it if he doesn't want to, no matter what you do, you've seen it yourself. Anyway, he's been here for two and a half years already, if he doesn't care to recognise it by now, then again he doesn't want to. (I guess that's his prerogative, but it's not his prerogative to dump it on us, nor on anybody.) Grilling him's unlikely to get anywhere, countering his views would show him up to everyone else but he still wouldn't see it. I think there's no shortage of such demonstrations in the list archives and I doubt doing it again this time would have added anything. Just throttling the guy lets him off too easy. Now it's he who gets to claim that his sensibilities were offended, further enforcing and propigating his peculiar beliefs elsewhere. Give 'em enough rope to hang themselves. If they're smart, they won't use it all. Wouldn't it be true that if they were smart they wouldn't do it in the first place? He already hanged himself, he ignored everything and everyone, that's not smart. If they aren't, the world should at least be given the pleasure of watching them swing at the end of the yardarm of their own making. :-) Do you mean in the sense that justice must be seen to be done or something like that? You might have a point. But really it just wastes time, it's a distraction, it clutters the place up, makes it more difficult for serious people to carry on a reasonable discussion. It's exactly that kind of crap that's truly off-topic. It doesn't take much to drag a list down, as we all know, just one or two heedless people who want it all their own way. It's because this kept happening time and time again that people started yelling NO TOPIC-COPS! in the first place, years ago. We had it all out then, a few times, and that's when the rule was made. We formalised it a year ago, me and a group of list members, the whole list concurred, and that's that. Now it happens much less. Has anything much changed, is there anything more to it now than the following? What does it amount to anyway? You're only allowed to talk about what **I** want to talk about? Usually it's either that or a poorly disguised demand for censorship. Or a complaint that there isn't any censorship, which looks like Duff's case. Not that he'd call it censorship. There's been a constant trickle of these people for nearly five years, and what most of them have in common is that no matter what you do, no matter what's proved or disproved and resides in a publicly accessible archives for all to see, if he wants to claim that it's his sensibilities that were offended and wants to propagate his beliefs elsewhere, HE'LL DO IT ANYWAY. Another thing we've found is that it doesn't matter. If people are smart they'll check, ask a few questions, and quickly discover that he's full of it. If not, then the same applies - what does it matter? Todd, I'm not just dismissing what you say, you make some good points, as ever. I'll surely keep them in mind. Too late this time though. I should say I don't know what Duff will do or won't do, I'm not trying to hang all this on him personally, all I can say is how other people who've expressed the same views have behaved in the past. Anyway it's not my concern. My often-stated position is that as list-owner my first obligation is to the list itself and the issues it represents, my second obligation is to the individual members, UNTIL they put the first obligation at risk. We do everything we can to make sure list members know what kind of community they've joined and how to get the best out of it, if they don't take any notice that's their problem. It's their loss too - it wouldn't be easy to persuade me that heedless and selfish people are any loss to the list. It isn't here for outreach, it doesn't have a missionary role, it's only here to be useful to its members (many of whom use it as a source for their own outreach). Hey, Todd, all this isn't aimed at you either, just restating policy. Best wishes Keith Addison Journey to Forever KYOTO Pref., Japan http://journeytoforever.org/ Biofuel list owner Todd Swearingen Keith Addison wrote: Greetings to all, I am an avid alternative fuel advocate who is building a large home sized processor. I do
Re: [Biofuel] Warning to List Members
But don't get me wrong - I love Linux and we use it for almost all our servers and more than a few desktops along w/ OSX and some BSD. Kirk McLoren wrote: At present Linux viruses number less than 100. Since a lot of government entitiies are moving to Linux I assure you these numbers WILL change. A good article at: http://www.desktoplinux.com/articles/AT3307459975.html here is the description of the article -- go to link to read. The virus threat to Linux by Jill Ratkevic Do you really need to install antivirus software on your LinuxOS-based computer? You just might. The topic of computer viruses and Linux has caused considerable discussion in recent weeks. Mixed computing environments, servers, and growing market share all increase the risk of Linux as a target and vehicle for malicious viruses. DesktopLinux.com talks with CEO Keith Peer of top Linux antivirus vendor Central Command to discover where vulnerabilities exist, the cost to companies, and the growing interest in Linux from virus writers . . . I assure you that worms and viruses exist for linux. In fact, the first big Internet worm was a unix (almost identical to Linux) worm. Google Robert Morris. Ray J wrote: I have heard of several viruses for Linux and apple stuff Ray J Rumen Slavov wrote: Hi, Friends, It seems to me all of you are intelligent persons, so I wonder why you are using Microsoft bullsh...? As far as it is well known, there is not such animal - virus or worm or Trojan - for Linux! For some time now there are several distribution of Live CD`s, which work even in an empty hard like Knoppix and many others! My OS is Slackware Linux 10.1 and I never had any problems in the net. Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=34442/*http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Katrina's Effect on Petroleum Prices
Stan, I wouldn't go so far as to call the hurricane a disaster. It is what it is, a hurricane. It's the human component that propigates tones of disaster. Dispense with the humans and wallah! No disaster. Just a hurricane and the rejuvination cycle that follows. As for the petroleum industry profiteering from a natural event? Why is anyone complaining? At least on this list? People with a bent towards renewables, efficiency and conservation have been begging for higher fuel prices for decades in order to stimulate more activity in the progressive energy sector. Now that we're getting what is needed, do you really believe that it's right to complain? Todd Swearingen A firm proponent of Intelligent De-evolution. Stan wrote: I've been watching the progress of the storm. 175mph winds, going dead-on for New Orleans... And I can't help but feel that the oil industry will use this horrible disaster as a change to weasel themselves more money. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Katrina's Effect on Petroleum Prices
Hi All, Big Turbine $100 barrel? ;^) dD Biofuel@sustainablelists.org wrote: Stan, I wouldn't go so far as to call the hurricane a disaster. It is what it is, a hurricane. It's the human component that propigates tones of disaster. Dispense with the humans and wallah! No disaster. Just a hurricane and the rejuvination cycle that follows. As for the petroleum industry profiteering from a natural event? Why is anyone complaining? At least on this list? People with a bent towards renewables, efficiency and conservation have been begging for higher fuel prices for decades in order to stimulate more activity in the progressive energy sector. Now that we're getting what is needed, do you really believe that it's right to complain? Todd Swearingen A firm proponent of Intelligent De-evolution. Stan wrote: I've been watching the progress of the storm. 175mph winds, going dead-on for New Orleans... And I can't help but feel that the oil industry will use this horrible disaster as a change to weasel themselves more money. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ - Find the home of your dreams with eircom net property Sign up for email alerts now http://www.eircom.net/propertyalerts ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] MB Diesel for bio-diesel use
Peter Childers asks about MB 300D. My favorite car of all time was a 1980 MB 300D. (they were imported to the U.S. from 1979 'till 1985) I would have another in a flash, and may get one again soon. It is a sublime car to drive, especially on the road! It has an unbelievable turning radius, making it very maneuverable for a 4-door sedan. The 5-cylinder is a great engine, and even without the turbo performed quite well. It was even fast enough for me! LOL Most advised me I'd be disappointed with it's pick-up and such - but this engine will take anything you throw at it, so I just nailed it most of the time off the line and was always satisfied. The ONE thing that I think is most important is that THESE CARS ARE SAFE!!! I was rear-ended by a rather fast moving Mitsubishi while stopped at an intersection and pushed not only into but through a very large intersection - Broadway and Van Ness in SF for those who know it - and there was NO visible damage!!! You had to feel the hard rubber on the bumper to feel where the headlight glass had broken against it. The Mitsu was collapsed all the way to the cowl (windshield) and was clearly totaled! As far as I'm concerned, the MB Diesel is THE car of choice even without bio-fuels! I'd be a bit concerned about the 4-yrs non-use, but 165K miles is mild on that car. When I bought mine, my MB mechanic told me that if it had less than 175K on it and when warmed up, with the oil-filler cap removed, didn't smoke out that opening, then don't even bother to bring it to him, just buy it since it would just be broken in. My mechanic - a certified MB mechanic - has worked on a MB 300 TD (wagon) owned by a man from Marin County who has been influential in the rebirth of bio-diesel. This vehicle has been driven for 10 yrs or so on bio-diesel, and the mechanic says the engine is cleaner and runs better, and is generally in better shape than 10 years ago! Get the best one you can get and go! Doug PS - a couple of tips. The thing to look for when buying is how well the such things as climate control, vacuum system (door locks et al) are working. The climate control unit was built for them by Chrysler and was very good, but didn't last as long as MB components, and it's a complex system. ALSO be sure you learn how to manually blow out the fuel injectors. Anytime mine started to run less than well, I'd blow them out (takes three-minutes) and it would be as if I'd just done a tune-up. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Warning to List Members
There aren't worms and viruses for linux per sa. In order for your linux box to get infected it has to offer services to the outside world and linux (the kernel) doesn't have services (ie: samba for windows interaction, apache for a web server, inetd for telent/ftp...). All those services are addons. Out of the box most distributions are closed to everything from the outside. You can't even ping the server. You have to explicitly turn services on and that's where you get worms. Keep your sevices up to date and you won't have problems. Now viruses. I think of viruses as something coming from an email. All email programs I know of with linux allow you to turn off javascript or don't even support it in email and you can't even execute a program or script that might have come on the email period. In order to execute it you would have to explicitly save it and then mark it as an executable to even run it. Even if you did all of that the worst thing you could do to your machine is wipe out your user id. Unless your running as root, which you absolutely shouldn't, the virus can't infect the computer. Out of the box Windows has many services running, listens on many ports that you don't even know of and most people run as the admin of the computer. Don't even mention IE. Mike Weaver wrote: I assure you that worms and viruses exist for linux. In fact, the first big Internet worm was a unix (almost identical to Linux) worm. Google Robert Morris. Ray J wrote: I have heard of several viruses for Linux and apple stuff Ray J Rumen Slavov wrote: Hi, Friends, It seems to me all of you are intelligent persons, so I wonder why you are using Microsoft bullsh...? As far as it is well known, there is not such animal - virus or worm or Trojan - for Linux! For some time now there are several distribution of Live CD`s, which work even in an empty hard like Knoppix and many others! My OS is Slackware Linux 10.1 and I never had any problems in the net. And it is free of charge. The OppenOffice 1.1.4 office is well ahead of MS office - it opens files no matter which application is involved in the creation ( for example MS office XP can not open document written with MS office 97). Everything can be downloaded free from the net and the distributions are equipped with more than 2000 applications! All you need is to compile idconfig (the network connection) and you are free of problems. Me, personally, I do not have antivirus - I don`t need it. Try Linux! Best - R. Slavov Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] The myth behind non-taxable, off-road fuel was Re: There derrivatives of Barrel Oil, have you wondered ?
The petroleum distributors claim that it costs approximately $0.25 per gallon to dye the off-road fuel and then carry the two separate inventories. If that's true it's bullshit. I've been to the terminals and worked on their systems. The dye is added at the nozzel going into the truck, not in the storage vessel. There aren't seperated storage tanks for off/on road diesel. Also, there's no way in hell it costs $0.25/gallon. If it did that would be liquid gold given the amount actually added to the fuel. Appal Energy wrote: That's only partially true. Compare the price of off-road and on-road diesel. You'll note that the difference is not the approximate $0.50 in state and federal excise taxes assessed per gallon. It's closer to $0.25 per gallon. The petroleum distributors claim that it costs approximately $0.25 per gallon to dye the off-road fuel and then carry the two separate inventories. While part of that argument holds water, most off-road fuel is sold in bulk quantities by specific distributors, not every island at every fuel depot. Essentially, the tax break the government giveth, the petroleum distributors taketh away. Todd Swearingen Marty Phee wrote: The reason you pay taxes on gas, diesel or biofuel is for road construction and repair. Hence farmers and off road equipment do not pay taxes on the fuel they use. That's why it's dyed and why you go to jail if found using it on road. Tax evasion. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Have you ever wondered why all oil companies sell barrel oil at the same price ? Scenario; Could it be that all the oil companies are owned by one parent company? why not most other large companies do the same thing, they will have a offshore corporation who will own an onshore LLC or LTD. The company I work for does the same thing, the parent company is in Sweden where foreign source profits are non-taxable, meanwhile it's workers onshore are the ones paying taxes, certainly not them, but taxes are a different animal for another discussion group. A couple other things I do not understand, one ; if we have gained control of a large infrastucture oil producing country why is the price of gasoline still going so high? Did they do this for that objective ? Last thought.. As supposedly a free country why do we need a license and pay a tax to sell something that comes naturally out of the ground such as biofuel ? It seems that this may be a way to control the cost of that too.Myk HillNorth Carolina _ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Mercedes Diesel Suitable?
Peter, You cannot put a manual transmission in a turbocharged 123, it would be a slug, and would cost a fortune. You could do it with the 240D as it was normally aspirated. The torque curve is just way different with a turbo. I think what Jan was referring to as a grinder is the in-tank fuel screen. A very good idea is to take this out and replace it with a pre-filter just outside the tank. It will clog, and you will have to change it, one way or the other. You would do well to drain the fuel tank before starting anyway, so you might as well take out the screen at the same time. Door locks are vacuum actuated, and vacuum leaks are fairly straightforward to track down and fix. For an entire universe of information about your new car, subscribe to http://www.mercedeslist.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes and use the archives. I have found it to be invaluable with my 1985 123 wagon. Also, the original factory service manuals are available on CD if you wish to make ambitious repairs. Chances are, you won't need to though. Good luck. Chris K Cayce, SC - Original Message - From: Peter Childers [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2005 12:36 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Mercedes Diesel Suitable? Thanks for confirming my inexperienced assumption that the MB Diesels are bulletproof. I think as long as the odometer is a true 165K Mi and not the second rotation then the engine should be ok. The climate control and door locks are minor at this stage as I will get it operating with BioDiesel first and worry about the creature comforts later. I would like higher mileage but if I want to step into BioDiesel I can't wait for the perfect car. Unfortunately I can't test the transmission before I buy but the listed value is anywhere from Zero to $250, so the initial money won't be too bad. A good manual should be about $150-$200. Thanks for all the input. Peter - Original Message - From: S. Chapin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2005 11:49 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Mercedes Diesel Suitable? Peter Childers wrote: This is my first try at this list so excuse me if I don't get it yet. I need to acquire a diesel vehicle before I start to experiment with BioDiesel. I have looked at a Mercedes 300D that has not run in about 4 years and has 165K miles on it. I think it is about a 1985. I haven't talked to the owner yet. Can anyone give me some tips as to whether this car would suit, from an affordability standpoint, using for Biodiesel. I am very skilled mechanically so I can put the vehicle into operation with my own labor, but I expect parts to be expensive. I am not sure what I may need to do to it for Biodiesel. It is a five cylinder but I'm not sure if it is a turbo or not (needs a second look). I am also looking at (preferred) a Volkswagen Rabbit diesel. That one is a long shot right now. Thanks for any help. Peter ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Peter, The 300d 123chassis is a fairly bullet proof car, if a bit heavy. The 85 would be the last year, or maybe 86, they were made. Weak points are the climate control device (chrysler) and door lock system. Some automatics had problems, but overall they are comfortable, strong if not blazingly fast transport. Many 240d(4cyl), 300d, 300d turbo and also gas versions were squeezed into the 123. If you can find a manual, mostly european cars, put it in. Mileage will be high 20s-mid 30s. The older 240d, and 220d were in the 115 (maybe 114 I get them mixed up) were lighter I think, and more US cars had the manual, some 5cyl cars are about but mostly the 240. I think a 220d is the record holder for over 1 million miles on the clock... I think. I had an older 190d with over 400k and still running strong on b100 with just a little sweating from fuel lines. Parts can be found, and not terribly expensive unless from the dealer. Try recycle shops and net parts places. Cheers, S.Chapin ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Re: [Biofuel] Katrina's Effect on Petroleum Prices
I'm not complaining per se. It got me thinking that they might push the cost of petroleum diesel ever higher, and and increase the usage of higher blends and pure biodiesel. Appal Energy wrote: Stan, I wouldn't go so far as to call the hurricane a disaster. It is what it is, a hurricane. It's the human component that propigates tones of disaster. Dispense with the humans and wallah! No disaster. Just a hurricane and the rejuvination cycle that follows. As for the petroleum industry profiteering from a natural event? Why is anyone complaining? At least on this list? People with a bent towards renewables, efficiency and conservation have been begging for higher fuel prices for decades in order to stimulate more activity in the progressive energy sector. Now that we're getting what is needed, do you really believe that it's right to complain? Todd Swearingen A firm proponent of Intelligent De-evolution. Stan wrote: I've been watching the progress of the storm. 175mph winds, going dead-on for New Orleans... And I can't help but feel that the oil industry will use this horrible disaster as a change to weasel themselves more money. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Another use for glycerine
You can make monoglycerides by reacting glycerol with FAME in mixed phase solvent systems. These are used as emulsifiers in food and pharmaceutical products. Ken__Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
