date:20050921

maybe the 300 miles per gallon referred to were based on the dino diesel 
consumed overall for starting/stopping the engine and didn't count the 
veggie oil consumed. (people aren't really that dumb are they? o never 
mind, some must be to sell that kind of nonsense that's available)


des wrote:
 And the magnetized exhaust keeps on sticking to the inside of your 
 muffler...  Arrrgh...
 
 
 Mike Weaver wrote:
 
I have a device that costs 39.99 and will give you 400MPG!  You hook it 
around your fuel line and it magnetizes the fuel as it goes by...

Order Now!!

Cash Only.

Jeromie Reeves wrote:



My wife came home from work today talking about Channel 7 news out of 
Boise. It seams
they had a segment with a person who installed a WVO processor in there 
pick-up (at a
cost of 3000$ USD) and got 300 MPG. They still needed to start the 
vehicle on dino. Can
anyone shed some light on this as a Google search came back with less 
then nothing. I find it
very hard to believe this is true (tho that never stopped the news before).

Jeromie

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-- 
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Science is what we have learned about how to keep
from fooling ourselves — Richard Feynman

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Re: [Biofuel] Ch 7 10PM News out of Boise

2005-09-21 Thread Joe Street





Only 400MPG?? Don't waste your money on Mikey's device. Send it to
me. My unit gives 1000 MPG and does not leave magnetic deposits in
your exhaust system. I can't tell you how it works (it is proprietary
information) but it is based on quantum fluctuations in sub-space. Just
three easy payments of USD$33.99. oops I forgotenergy related
stuff is usually paid for in blood. Ok just send me 3 pints. Sorry no
BOD orders.

Joe

des wrote:

  And the magnetized exhaust keeps on sticking to the inside of your 
muffler...  Arrrgh...


Mike Weaver wrote:
  
  
I have a device that costs 39.99 and will give you 400MPG!  You hook it 
around your fuel line and it magnetizes the fuel as it goes by...

Order Now!!

Cash Only.

Jeromie Reeves wrote:




  My wife came home from work today talking about Channel 7 news out of 
Boise. It seams
they had a segment with a person who installed a WVO processor in there 
pick-up (at a
cost of 3000$ USD) and got 300 MPG. They still needed to start the 
vehicle on dino. Can
anyone shed some light on this as a Google search came back with less 
then nothing. I find it
very hard to believe this is true (tho that never stopped the news before).

Jeromie

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Re: [Biofuel] Ch 7 10PM News out of Boise

2005-09-21 Thread Joe Street





It composts very well. Can't you tell by the smell that emanates from
your monitor every time you read it?

Fred Finch wrote:
Joe, 
  
Does your information compost well like Mickey's information?
  
fred
  
  On 9/21/05, Joe Street [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
  
Only 400MPG?? Don't waste your money on Mikey's device. Send it to
me. My unit gives 1000 MPG and does not leave magnetic deposits in
your exhaust system. I can't tell you how it works (it is proprietary
information) but it is based on quantum fluctuations in sub-space. Just
three easy payments of USD$33.99. oops I forgotenergy related
stuff is usually paid for in blood. Ok just send me 3 pints. Sorry no
BOD orders.

Joe


des wrote:

  And the magnetized exhaust keeps on sticking to the inside of your 
muffler...  Arrrgh...


Mike Weaver wrote:
  
  
I have a device that costs 39.99 and will give you 400MPG!  You hook it 
around your fuel line and it magnetizes the fuel as it goes by...

Order Now!!

Cash Only.

Jeromie Reeves wrote:





  My wife came home from work today talking about Channel 7 news out of 
Boise. It seams
they had a segment with a person who installed a WVO processor in there 
pick-up (at a
cost of 3000$ USD) and got 300 MPG. They still needed to start the 

vehicle on dino. Can
anyone shed some light on this as a Google search came back with less 
then nothing. I find it
very hard to believe this is true (tho that never stopped the news before).

Jeromie


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Re: [Biofuel] Ch 7 10PM News out of Boise

2005-09-21 Thread John Hayes

 Jeromie Reeves wrote:
  My wife came home from work today talking about Channel 7 news out of
Boise. It seams
they had a segment with a person who installed a WVO processor in there 
pick-up (at a
cost of 3000$ USD) and got 300 MPG. They still needed to start the 
vehicle on dino. Can
anyone shed some light on this as a Google search came back with less 
then nothing. I find it
very hard to believe this is true (tho that never stopped the news before).

I suspect it was a simple misunderstanding on the part of the reporter 
or your wife's coworkers due to the habit of some WVO or BD users to 
talk about miles per petrogallon.

If I start up on 1/4 gallon of petroleum based diesel and then switch 
over to WVO and drive 75 miles, I've traveled 300 miles per petrogallon. 
Of course, if the listener is unfamiliar with this sort of logic, they 
merely hear 300 mpg and miss the distinction.

For example, over my last 10 tanks, I've driven 7270 miles on 111.6 
gallons of petrodiesel and 49.8 gallons of biodiesel. This works out to 
45.1 mpg but 65.14 miles/petrogallon.

Is this misleading? I think I all depends on your audience. But 
personally, I'd err on the side of caution because the alternative fuels 
movement doesn't benefit when people feel misled or cheated, even when 
the error is their own.

jh

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Re: [Biofuel] Methanol handling tips needed

Hello John

Greetings,

I'm finally finding the time to make a processor, but find myself
hanging on a couple of points.  First off I'm just going with
something that resembles the 5gal processor listed on JTF to start.
The problem is that I'm not grasping the process in handling the
methanol and lye properly.  The idea of forcing air into the methoxide
tank thus forcing methoxide out other tube into processor makes sence.
 I just dont see where/how the methanol and lye are measured and
placed into mixing container to begin with.

Use translucent HDPE containers for mixing methanol and mark them at 
the required volume. Use the air pump to pump methanol out of the 
container it comes in into the mixing container to the required 
volume. Weight out the lye (or KOH), we measure it out into plastic 
bags on the scales (adjusted for the weight of the bag) so that 
there's minimal exposure to the air and moisture in the air. Then add 
it to the methanol mixing container. Opening the lid for this purpose 
won't expose you to fumes as the methanol is at room temperature and 
it's not being agitated. We use a funnel made from the top of a 
2-litre PET bottle (the kind you buy water in) to pour the KOH in 
from its plastic bag. Mix it this way: Methoxide the easy way
http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_aleksnew.html#easymeth

Then pump it into the processor with the air-pump.

So, I'm looking for
pointers on how others measure and handle these to get them into mix
tank.  Additonally, I'm not sure what to use for heating element
(electric at this point) so would appreciate any insight on this as
well.

With the 5-gal processor type you're more or less confined to 
electric heating, those cans don't last very long with an open flame 
under them. You can only use an open heat source for pre-heating the 
oil anyway - no more open flames as soon as there's any methanol 
involved. Maybe a heat exchanger would do, but that would probably be 
a bit of a hassle in only a 5-gal can. Get a submersion heating 
element, stainless steel, about 1.5 kw should do or maybe less. Try 
to get one that fits (unlike ours!).

Best wishes

Keith


Thanks,
John


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Re: [Biofuel] There's no proof of global warming

2005-09-21 Thread Charles Tounah

Hello,

As far as the grey layer of crud that's built up in
the atmosphere, there have been airplanes whose sole
apparent purpose has been to lay that grey layer down
in the atmosphere.  I have personally observed them in
many different cities, even in different countries,
for about the last five years.  The phenomenon is
called chemtrails, and you can find a whole education
on the internet regarding it.   www.carnicom.com
(which I have not visited in years) is probably the
most well-known.

Charles Tounah

--- Jerry Eyers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  
  Hi All,
  
  Yeah, right. Someone ought to tell Mr. Limbaugh
 that Rita was a tropical
 storm two days ago. It's entered the Gulf and is now
 at Catagory 2. It's
 heading west now and will probably increase in
 ferocity in the next 24-36
 hours. The water temperaturee in the gulf is still
 above 30C. Let's all burn
 more Dino since none of this is connected. 
   
  Tom
  
 Well, technically speaking, he is right, there is no
 direct evidence, only
 circumstantial evidence.  That said, however, there
 have been MANY
 convictions made on only circumstantial evidence!! 
 All you really have to
 do is get into an airplane and try flying anywhere,
 and you will see the
 smokey crudd layer that exists over everything. 
 Better yet, look at some
 space shots of the earth made by the space shuttle
 crews compaired to space
 shots made of the earth in the Apollo launches, and
 there is a BIG
 difference.
 
 Is it effecting weather??  Some say yes, some no. 
 The current warming cycle
 (which is DEFINATELY happening) some say to be a
 normal heat cycle on a 26
 year basis (some evidence for that) and that it will
 be followed by a cold
 cycle.
 
 There are arguments both ways, but nobody can argue
 against the murky-grey
 layer of crudd building up in the atmosphere!
 
 Jerry
  
  
 
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Re: [Biofuel] Ch 7 10PM News out of Boise

2005-09-21 Thread G

des wrote:

And the magnetized exhaust keeps on sticking to the inside of your 
muffler...  Arrrgh...

  


Aye.. She cannt hold it.. We haves to reverse polarity on the exhaust!!


-- 
Those who dance are considered insane by those who can't
hear the music.  
-George Carlin


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Re: [Biofuel] First bach of Biodiesel

Hey no fair I can't read this reply?
I wanted to hear it too.
Brian Rodgers

Maybe it's no fair when both of them and very many others here 
struggle to read our imperialistic English all the time?

Best wishes

Keith


On 9/20/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  Caro João, a temperatura é uma variável que deve ser levada em consideração
  uma vez que a cinética da reacção varia com a temperatura, ou seja, maior
  temperatura significa menor tempo de reacção. No entanto, num reactor à
  pressão atmosférica não se deverá ultrapassar os 60ºC pois  a 
temperatura de
  ebulição do metanol é cerca de 63ºC.
 
  Boa sorte e disponha sempre
 
  Filipe Paulette
  Chemical Engineer
 
  Citando joão martins [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
 
   Hi there,
 
   I plan to start doing the first bach of biodiesel, and
   I will use Methanol.
 
   I'd like to know if we need always to heat everything
   to 50ºC, and way???
 
   Best Regards
   João Martins
   www.martinsportscar.com


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Re: [Biofuel] First bach of Biodiesel

2005-09-21 Thread fil_paulette

Hello Zeke, your're wright, I'm Portuguese and so is João that's why my answer 
was in Portuguese. In the future I will try to use the English.


Citando Zeke Yewdall [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

 Haha.  I've determined that I need to learn french and spanish at the
 least, to fully take advantage of international discussion forums.
 Drawback of being an american where we're raised to expect everyone to
 speak english   Although if I'm not mistaken, Filipe's response
 was Portugese, right?
 
 On 9/20/05, Brian Rodgers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  Hey no fair I can't read this reply?
  I wanted to hear it too.
  Brian Rodgers
 
 
  On 9/20/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:
   Caro João, a temperatura é uma variável que deve ser levada em
 consideração
   uma vez que a cinética da reacção varia com a temperatura, ou seja, maior
   temperatura significa menor tempo de reacção. No entanto, num reactor à
   pressão atmosférica não se deverá ultrapassar os 60ºC pois  a temperatura
 de
   ebulição do metanol é cerca de 63ºC.
  
   Boa sorte e disponha sempre
  
   Filipe Paulette
   Chemical Engineer
  
   Citando joão martins [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
  
Hi there,
  
I plan to start doing the first bach of biodiesel, and
I will use Methanol.
  
I'd like to know if we need always to heat everything
to 50ºC, and way???
  
Best Regards
João Martins
www.martinsportscar.com
  
  
  
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Re: [Biofuel] There's no proof of global warming

I think a strong agument to believe that there is global warming,

There's no need to *believe* that there is global warming, you don't 
have to believe in something that's happening. The hard evidence has 
been convincing for rather a long time and it's been mounting 
steadily ever since into what's become a flood - unless of course 
you've been wearing blinkers, as specified by people like these (for 
one source among thousands):



http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2005/05/some_like_it_hot.html

Some Like It Hot

News: Forty public policy groups have this in common: They seek to 
undermine the scientific consensus that humans are causing the earth 
to overheat. And they all get money from ExxonMobil.



Give it a read. Nothing new there though, we've been dealing with it 
at this level here for more than five years (and some of us much 
longer than that). Do a list archives search for baliunas, for 
instance:

http://www.mail-archive.com/cgi-bin/htsearch?method=andformat=shortc 
onfig=biofuel_sustainablelists_orgrestrict=exclude=words=baliunas
Search results for 'baliunas'
Or:
http://snipurl.com/huc2

(or maybe a better term to be scientific is climate change)

It's a softer term, so it's preferred by the global warming deniers. 
Nobody knows for sure how it might unfold in the longer term, but 
what's happening now and what we'll have to deal with now and in the 
immediate future and beyond is global warming, precipitated by 
over-use of fossil-fuel energy mostly by the industrialised nations.

This has been known since 1988 - sufficiently known to take remedial 
action right then, when James Hansen announced it to the US Congress, 
with the majority of scientists agreeing (now all agree except those 
who're paid not to). Two years later, when I became involved, I 
watched the US government at the highest levels putting a damper on 
it so that no binding commitments were made by governments or 
industry at the Rio Conference as had been planned.

We knew it in the early 1970s - we didn't know whether it would be 
warming or freezing but we knew well enough that the climate was 
changing because of industrialisation.

We've wasted 15 years, or 17 years, or 35 years, while the industries 
that are your government's paymasters dragged their feet, optimised 
their bottom-lines and pulled the wool over your eyes. I wonder what 
your grandchildren will have to say about that.

You said before: So the first war is for the hearts of the people, 
then the second war (to save the plannet) can be won. The first war 
was for the *minds* of the people, and the people succumbed without a 
murmur.

 From previous:

Do you have faith in the institutions of your society? You tend to 
get one of two answers, either a pause followed by What do you 
mean? or an immediate Of course not!, and neither needs a reply, 
it would either be futile or superfluous.

And:

... what I tend to think of as Churchill's critical threshold 
level, when he mouthed that nonsense that you can fool some of the 
people all of the time and you can fool all of the people some of 
the time but you can't fool all of the people all of the time - 
while knowing very well that there's absolutely no need to fool all 
of them all of the time just as long as you can fool enough of them 
enough of the time. Which all our governments succeed in doing.

'Fraid so.

can be found by looking up global dimming

Flavour of the month.

on the net once such find was at 
http://geography.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http://www.gua 
rdian.co.uk/life/feature/story/0%2C13026%2C1108853%2C00.htmlhttp://ge 
ography.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http://www.guardian.co.u 
k/life/feature/story/0%2C13026%2C1108853%2C00.html I 
believe as the solar energy hitting the earth is reducing by 3% per 
recent decade (source above) and the worlds claciers are only just 
staring to melt after 100,000 's of thousands of years then some 
sort of cliamte change is happening.
They can hang a man for evidence beyond reasonable doubt, I think 
mankind should make the call and move to save the plannet, because I 
think there is more than enough reasonable doubt.

And has been for a long time.

Best wishes

Keith


Ian

Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Actually Jerry,

Just go back to photos of Earth during the airline shutdowns after
September 11th and you'll see precisely (or rather so) what the
contribution of the airline industry is to global polution. No need to
go back to the Apollo years for photos, especially since emissions have
been curbed considerably (in some regions) since then.

Anything short of what happened on September 11th that throttles the
airline industry to a permanent standstill is in the best interests of
all living things.

Todd Swearingen

Jerry Eyers wrote:

 
 
 
 Hi All,
 
 Yeah, right. Someone ought to tell Mr. Limbaugh that Rita was a tropical
 
 
 storm two days ago. It's entered the Gulf and is now at

Re: [Biofuel] First bach of Biodiesel

Hello Zeke, your're wright, I'm Portuguese and so is João that's why my answer
was in Portuguese. In the future I will try to use the English.

Please feel free Filipe, if English is no strain for you that's nice, 
otherwise you and João and anyone else can write whatever language 
you like as long as it's in Roman characters that everyone's computer 
can read. Google does English-Portuguese translations, so the rest of 
us will manage somehow.

http://www.google.com/language_tools?hl=en
Language Tools

Best wishes

Keith Addison
Journey to Forever
KYOTO Pref., Japan
http://journeytoforever.org/
Biofuel list owner

 

Citando Zeke Yewdall [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

 Haha.  I've determined that I need to learn french and spanish at the
 least, to fully take advantage of international discussion forums.
 Drawback of being an american where we're raised to expect everyone to
 speak english   Although if I'm not mistaken, Filipe's response
 was Portugese, right?

 On 9/20/05, Brian Rodgers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  Hey no fair I can't read this reply?
  I wanted to hear it too.
  Brian Rodgers
 
 
  On 9/20/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:
   Caro João, a temperatura é uma variável que deve ser levada em
 consideração
   uma vez que a cinética da reacção varia com a temperatura, ou seja, maior
   temperatura significa menor tempo de reacção. No entanto, num reactor à
   pressão atmosférica não se deverá ultrapassar os 60ºC pois  a temperatura
 de
   ebulição do metanol é cerca de 63ºC.
  
   Boa sorte e disponha sempre
  
   Filipe Paulette
   Chemical Engineer
  
   Citando joão martins [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
  
Hi there,
  
I plan to start doing the first bach of biodiesel, and
I will use Methanol.
  
I'd like to know if we need always to heat everything
to 50ºC, and way???
  
Best Regards
João Martins
www.martinsportscar.com


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Re: [Biofuel] seeding a forage pasture

Hallo Andres,

I'm  afraid  everything  I  do  is  very  different  from what you are
proposing so I can't be much help.  I would get in touch, if possible,
with  the  local folks and the ag extension office or uni which serves
your area.  Pasture farming is area specific given weather conditions,
soil  type,  length  of  season  and what livestock you are pasturing.
Even  where  I  am  at  the requirements are different if you drive 15
minutes  south.  I have to plant for heavy clay but my neighbors a few
miles south have to plant for sandy soil.  This is not to mention that
my  neighbors think I am crazy because I use no pesticides, herbicides
or chemical fertilizers.

Do  a  google  or  hotbot  search for pasture planting and refine your
search  to  suit  your  conditions.   Then  find  a  neighbor  who  is
successful who uses farming methods which mirror your methods and talk
to  them.

I'd bet my boots there aren't any Gustl. Andres is doing ley farming, 
and the unis and ag extensions won't ever heard of it, and shame on 
them for that.

Best wishes

Keith


Follow that up with whatever free government or university
information  you  can  find  and  then  decide  which  best suits your
conditions and methods of farming.

I'm  sorry  I can't be more help than that.  I don't have a clue about
farming in the desert.  Good luck friend.

Happy Happy,

Gustl

Tuesday, 20 September, 2005, 21:19:28, you wrote:

AY Hi, tried posting the following to Rodale's NewFarm forums, and have
AY gotten no answer so far. Any farmers on this list? Gustl? Keith? I'm
AY leaving this particular field unseeded until i can figure out a smart
AY way to do it:

AY Hello,
AY It's spring here in the southern hemisphere, and we're looking at
AY seeding a recently harvested potato field with a forage mixture. We
AY don't have access to a drill yet, so the plan is to broadcast a nurse
AY crop of oats, then lightly disc to cover, then broadcast alfalfa plus a
AY bunch of other small seeded forbs, grasses, and legumes. We'll need to
AY furrow the field for irrigation (can't count on enough-properly
AY timed-rain here in the desert, although we do get about 200-250mm
AY spread out over the season-conditions are much like southern colorado,
AY northern new mexico), so the question is: do we furrow before
AY broadcasting the alfalfa+, and if so, how do we cover and pack the
AY seed/bed after furrowing? Or, if we furrow after seeding the alfalfa+,
AY won't the seeds be buried too deep?
...snip...
--
Je mehr wir haben, desto mehr fordert Gott von uns.

We can't change the winds but we can adjust our sails.

The safest road to Hell is the gradual one - the gentle slope,
soft underfoot, without sudden turnings, without milestones,
without signposts.
C. S. Lewis, The Screwtape Letters

Es gibt Wahrheiten, die so sehr auf der Straße liegen,
daß sie gerade deshalb von der gewöhnlichen Welt nicht
gesehen oder wenigstens nicht erkannt werden.

Those who dance are considered insane by those who can't
hear the music.
George Carlin

The best portion of a good man's life -
His little, nameless, unremembered acts of kindness and of love.
William Wordsworth


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Re: [Biofuel] Ch 7 10PM News out of Boise

2005-09-21 Thread Mike Weaver

They never proved that!

G wrote:

des wrote:

  

And the magnetized exhaust keeps on sticking to the inside of your 
muffler...  Arrrgh...

 




Aye.. She cannt hold it.. We haves to reverse polarity on the exhaust!!


  



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Re: [Biofuel] seeding a forage pasture

2005-09-21 Thread Andres Yver

Hello Gustl,

On Wednesday, September 21, 2005, at 09:31 AM, Gustl Steiner-Zehender 
wrote:

 Hallo Andres,

 I'm  afraid  everything  I  do  is  very  different  from what you are
 proposing so I can't be much help.  I would get in touch, if possible,
 with  the  local folks and the ag extension office or uni which serves
 your area.  Pasture farming is area specific given weather conditions,
 soil  type,  length  of  season  and what livestock you are pasturing.
 Even  where  I  am  at  the requirements are different if you drive 15
 minutes  south.  I have to plant for heavy clay but my neighbors a few
 miles south have to plant for sandy soil.  This is not to mention that
 my  neighbors think I am crazy because I use no pesticides, herbicides
 or chemical fertilizers.

 Do  a  google  or  hotbot  search for pasture planting and refine your
 search  to  suit  your  conditions.   Then  find  a  neighbor  who  is
 successful who uses farming methods which mirror your methods and talk
 to  them.   Follow that up with whatever free government or university
 information  you  can  find  and  then  decide  which  best suits your
 conditions and methods of farming.

 I'm  sorry  I can't be more help than that.  I don't have a clue about
 farming in the desert.  Good luck friend.

 Happy Happy,

 Gustl

Thanks for the reply! There's no-one around here doing ley farming, and 
yes, my neighbors also think i'm crazy for not spraying or fertilizing 
with chemicals... But as you, Kim, Robert and others have mentioned, 
once they see your lovely green results, they start getting interested 
and spending more time leaning on the fence posts to see what's going 
on.

Here, chemicals and fuel are the biggest cost components of farming 
which is only barely profitable as things stand. Lots of abandoned 
farms. My neighbor sprays his pear orchard 10-12 times a year! I tell 
him he's working for Dow and Monsanto. He says he doesn't have a crop 
if no spray.

Last week i disced, rolled and sowed a  hectare of his row middles with 
clover and italian annual ryegrass.
Asked him to please not spray those trees all year, and that i would 
pay him for the pears it produced at the same price he got for a 
hectare of the rest of the orchard, regardless of yield. This fall i'll 
have to figure out what to do with 70 tons of pears (gotta get a still 
built ;-), but he'll get exposure to organics and i'll have a buffer 
zone, pasture for some sheep and maybe can feed the spent mash to pigs. 
Win win, i hope.

take care,

andres



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Re: [Biofuel] seeding a forage pasture

2005-09-21 Thread Andres Yver

Hello,

On Wednesday, September 21, 2005, at 10:42 AM, Keith Addison wrote:

 snip

 I'd bet my boots there aren't any Gustl. Andres is doing ley farming,
 and the unis and ag extensions won't ever heard of it, and shame on
 them for that.

Keith gets to keep his boots. He'll probably need them, rubber ones, 
IIRC, thunderstorms this time of year?

Uni will be hearing about it though, from us. Busload of students 
should be out next week to poke around the compost pile and eat George 
and Dick, who've been fattening up on vetch and rye and dirt all 
winter. I wish we'd been at it longer here though, to have more to 
show. The place is still an awful mess, and the huge 80 year old mud 
oven collapsed last week after a snowstorm. Now we get to build 
another, only this one will have lime and pumice plaster...

have fun!

andres


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Re: [Biofuel] Ch 7 10PM News out of Boise

2005-09-21 Thread Jerry Eyers







Not to knock everyone who has responded so far, but such items do exist, although I don't believe 300 has been achieved, but there are documented cases of big block 350's getting over 200mpg. I have done lots of research on this, and even have designed my own unit. The process involves replacing the standard carb with a vapor only carb (like a propane one) then pre-heating your fuel to a vapor,and feeding the vapor. The problems are that if not done careful, you end up with a very large rolling bomb, and you still need standard fuel to start the vehicle, unless you use direct heating (read that bomb again), and you need a sludge removal system to remove the additives. The result is much cleaner burn, much more efficient.

That said, I don't know of ANY that have worked with diesel engines, only straight gas. 

Jerry

---Original Message---


From: Jeromie Reeves
Date: 09/21/05 03:38:50
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: [Biofuel] Ch 7 10PM News out of Boise

My wife came home from work today talking about Channel 7 news out of
Boise. It seams
they had a segment with a person who installed a WVO processor in there
pick-up (at a
cost of 3000$ USD) and got 300 MPG. They still needed to start the
vehicle on dino. Can
anyone shed some light on this as a Google search came back with less
then nothing. I find it
very hard to believe this is true (tho that never stopped the news before).

Jeromie

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--
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.







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Re: [Biofuel] There's no proof of global warming

2005-09-21 Thread Jerry Eyers







 What did the photos show?

In the late 1960's, it was a beautiful blue sphere, 
clear atmoshpere,very nice.

Now, there is a smokey white smudge over everything.
There is no nice, clean, blue ball anymore, just
a smokey, murkey haze all the time.

Compare this picture (apollo 7 docking with satellite):
http://images.jsc.nasa.gov/luceneweb/fullimage.jsp?searchpage=trueselections=AS7browsepage=Gohitsperpage=20pageno=1photoId=AS07-03-1531

With this picture (space shuttle docking with satellite):
http://images.jsc.nasa.gov/luceneweb/fullimage.jsp?searchpage=trueselections=STS77browsepage=Gohitsperpage=10pageno=3photoId=s77e5069

And look at the earth in the background.

Jerry







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Re: [Biofuel] Ch 7 10PM News out of Boise

2005-09-21 Thread Jeromie Reeves

John Hayes wrote:

Jeromie Reeves wrote:


  My wife came home from work today talking about Channel 7 news out of
  

Boise. It seams
they had a segment with a person who installed a WVO processor in there 
pick-up (at a
cost of 3000$ USD) and got 300 MPG. They still needed to start the 
vehicle on dino. Can
anyone shed some light on this as a Google search came back with less 
then nothing. I find it
very hard to believe this is true (tho that never stopped the news before).
  


I suspect it was a simple misunderstanding on the part of the reporter 
or your wife's coworkers due to the habit of some WVO or BD users to 
talk about miles per petrogallon.

If I start up on 1/4 gallon of petroleum based diesel and then switch 
over to WVO and drive 75 miles, I've traveled 300 miles per petrogallon. 
Of course, if the listener is unfamiliar with this sort of logic, they 
merely hear 300 mpg and miss the distinction.

For example, over my last 10 tanks, I've driven 7270 miles on 111.6 
gallons of petrodiesel and 49.8 gallons of biodiesel. This works out to 
45.1 mpg but 65.14 miles/petrogallon.

Is this misleading? I think I all depends on your audience. But 
personally, I'd err on the side of caution because the alternative fuels 
movement doesn't benefit when people feel misled or cheated, even when 
the error is their own.

jh

  

RE: jh
I am fairly sure something was misreported. I have not seen any in 
vehicle WVO processors so that
alone had me curious and ify on the validity of the story (Not to say 
such doesnt exist, just havent seen
one yet). 300 mpg has me very ify on the validity of the story and I 
assumed something was amiss.
Having not heard the news cast myself that explination sounds like what 
likely happened.

What do you drive that gets 45mpg? Are you running a 2 to 1 mix of 
BD/Petro, was that for starting, or both?

Its misleading for sure.

RE: other replies
Hey thanks for making me feel right at home. Its not like im looking to 
get the truth about the reported story
or get the truth to the reported so they can possibly correct there 
mistake. Naaa no one can bother to make
sure they get a real story from www.ktvb.com cause its obvious you like 
the misleading and flat out wrong
information that exists far to often. Keep up the good work.




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Re: [Biofuel] seeding a forage pasture

2005-09-21 Thread Bede

Lots of links and important info on pasture management
check http://www.rd1.com/web/content?in_section=3in_item=420


there's also a forum on http://www.fencepost.com/home.jhtml
kiwi farmers will certainly know what your talking about =)

Cheers,
Bede

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Andres Yver
Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 2:34 AM
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] seeding a forage pasture


Hello,

On Wednesday, September 21, 2005, at 10:42 AM, Keith Addison wrote:

 snip

 I'd bet my boots there aren't any Gustl. Andres is doing ley farming,
 and the unis and ag extensions won't ever heard of it, and shame on
 them for that.

Keith gets to keep his boots. He'll probably need them, rubber ones,
IIRC, thunderstorms this time of year?

Uni will be hearing about it though, from us. Busload of students
should be out next week to poke around the compost pile and eat George
and Dick, who've been fattening up on vetch and rye and dirt all
winter. I wish we'd been at it longer here though, to have more to
show. The place is still an awful mess, and the huge 80 year old mud
oven collapsed last week after a snowstorm. Now we get to build
another, only this one will have lime and pumice plaster...

have fun!

andres


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Re: [Biofuel] There's no proof of global warming

woo-woo alert!


Charles Tounah wrote:
 Hello,
 
 As far as the grey layer of crud that's built up in
 the atmosphere, there have been airplanes whose sole
 apparent purpose has been to lay that grey layer down
 in the atmosphere. 

oh really?




  I have personally observed them in
 many different cities, even in different countries,
 for about the last five years.  The phenomenon is
 called chemtrails,

other than usual exhaust emissions- water vapor, CO2, and trace 
combustion products such as NOX, what is there?


  and you can find a whole education
 on the internet regarding it.   www.carnicom.com

woo-woo. woo-woo.

 (which I have not visited in years) is probably the
 most well-known.


sorry for my sarcasm, but I will save my worrying over reality, and 
leave the really paranoid speculation to others.


 
 Charles Tounah

-- 
Bob Allen
http://ozarker.org/bob

Science is what we have learned about how to keep
from fooling ourselves — Richard Feynman

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Re: [Biofuel] Ch 7 10PM News out of Boise

Jerry Eyers wrote:
 Not to knock everyone who has responded so far, but such items do exist, 
 although I don't believe 300 has been achieved, but there are documented 
 cases of big block 350's getting over 200mpg.

Documented by whom?  (By the way, a 350 is a small block.)  Under 
what test conditions?


 The process involves replacing the standard carb with a vapor only carb (like 
 a 
 propane one) then pre-heating your fuel to a vapor, and feeding the 
 vapor.

I have a lot of experience running gaseous fuels in engines, and 
NEVER have I seen any evidence that a fully vaporized fuel (such as 
propane or methane) can attain higher efficiencies than a fuel 
injected liquid fueled engine.  (Though it is true that certain gases, 
hydrogen for example, can run leaner than gasoline.  However, the 
difference in economy is incremental.)  The calorific value of gaseous 
fuels is generally LESS than that of liquid fuels because they are not 
as dense, yet the fuel economy remains proportional to the overall 
energy available for combustion.

To put it simply, vaporizing gasoline will not magically enhance fuel 
economy.  Among some people, there remains a persistent myth that 
liquid fueled internal combustion engines are incapable of fully 
burning a fuel load.  People who believe this insist that the vast 
majority of the air / fuel mixture leaving a combustion chamber is 
unburned, yet this is simply NOT true!

 That said, I don't know of ANY that have worked with diesel engines, 
 only straight gas. 

A diesel engine will outperform a gasoline engine by virtue of higher 
compression pressure and the lack of a throttle, which considerably 
reduces pumping losses.  In addition, diesel fuel contains more energy 
than gasoline.

robert luis rabello
The Edge of Justice
Adventure for Your Mind
http://www.newadventure.ca

Ranger Supercharger Project Page
http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/



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[Biofuel] Dear Bob Allen was Re: There's no proof of global warming

2005-09-21 Thread Appal Energy

U., let's see Bob,

Paranoia is it?

You seem to forget at minimum thirty years of using thousand of US 
citizens as human guinea pigs for radioactive materials testing. That 
nasty little paranoid conspiracy theory unraveled in the early 90's.
http://www.ippnw.org/MGS/V1N1McCally.html

You seem to forget the thousands of US military personel exposed during 
Operation Crossroads as well as thousands more intentionally positioned 
to observe atmospheric detonations of nuclear weapons at the Nevada test 
sites, not to mention the forty years of denial and deceit that followed.

Let's forget the decades that literally millions of US citizens were 
exposed to fad, over-the-counter drugs containing radium, such as 
Dentarium, Ointarium, Kaparium, Linarium and just plain Arium, or the 
water elixir labeled Radithor. They were all being deemed perfectly 
safe and denials were issued by all private and government entities 
fifteen years after people started dropping like flies and up to the 
very days that each was separately pulled from the market..

You seem to forget that for thirty-eight years, between 1932 and 1970, 
the US Public Health Service and the Tuskegee Institute conducted 
studies on 399 black men diagnosed with syphilis. They intentionally 
withheld treatment and diagnostic information from these men for 
decades, treating them with placebos and setting up elaborate free 
medical schemes to keep their study group from venturing out of their 
purview so that they could maintain the integrity of their data.

And even with such a dispersed yet long-lived historical track record 
and monumental data sets, you continually poo-poo and dismiss all 
reports or concerns of all other deceit and debilitating chicanery as if 
claims of such are the ravings of lunatics.

Nonsense.

One of us is either really gullible or really stupid Bob. You if you 
don't believe precisely what cold and calculated depths concerted public 
and private interests are capable of stooping to, and me if I accept 
your overly eager dismissals of anything and everything as being nothing 
more than paranoia.

Todd Swearingen

**

bob allen wrote:

woo-woo alert!


Charles Tounah wrote:
  

Hello,

As far as the grey layer of crud that's built up in
the atmosphere, there have been airplanes whose sole
apparent purpose has been to lay that grey layer down
in the atmosphere. 



oh really?




  I have personally observed them in
  

many different cities, even in different countries,
for about the last five years.  The phenomenon is
called chemtrails,



other than usual exhaust emissions- water vapor, CO2, and trace 
combustion products such as NOX, what is there?


  and you can find a whole education
  

on the internet regarding it.   www.carnicom.com



woo-woo. woo-woo.

  

(which I have not visited in years) is probably the
most well-known.




sorry for my sarcasm, but I will save my worrying over reality, and 
leave the really paranoid speculation to others.


  

Charles Tounah



  


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Re: [Biofuel] There's no proof of global warming

2005-09-21 Thread Chris lloyd

 As far as the grey layer of crud that's built up in the atmosphere, there 
 have been airplanes whose sole
apparent purpose has been to lay that grey layer down in the atmosphere. 

Research done here in the UK estimates that 85% of high level air pollution 
is due to planes not cars or industry.   Chris.

Wessex Ferret Club
www.wessexferretclub.co.uk



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Re: [Biofuel] Ch 7 10PM News out of Boise

2005-09-21 Thread John Hayes

Jeromie Reeves wrote:

 What do you drive that gets 45mpg? Are you running a 2 to 1 mix of 
 BD/Petro, was that for starting, or both?

I drive a stock 2003 Jetta TDI 5-sp. I typically put in B100 homebrew 
and then top off at with commercial petrodiesel, either immediately or 
sometimes a couple of days later. The Jetta's recirculating pump takes 
care of any mixing right in the main fuel tank. No preblanding required.

Here's my last 10 fills:

BD  Petro

7.5 11.533
6.0 11.367
0   16.003
6.0 10.462
10.55.864
0   15.280
5.0 9.554
4.9 10.087
0   14.200
9.9 7.290

You can clearly see that the ratio is not at all consistent. In reality, 
it is even more variable than that because I may not dilute the B100 
with petrodiesel until a couple of days later, meaning the engine may be 
running on a very high or very low BD blend at any given moment.

jh




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Re: [Biofuel] Ch 7 10PM News out of Boise

2005-09-21 Thread John Donahue

Its much easier to just install 6 taller tires on the rear axel, that
way you will be going down hill all the time.

You'll get like 800mpg that way

Jeromie Reeves wrote:

My wife came home from work today talking about Channel 7 news out of 
Boise. It seams
they had a segment with a person who installed a WVO processor in there 
pick-up (at a
cost of 3000$ USD) and got 300 MPG. They still needed to start the 
vehicle on dino. Can
anyone shed some light on this as a Google search came back with less 
then nothing. I find it
very hard to believe this is true (tho that never stopped the news before).

Jeromie

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Re: [Biofuel] Dear Bob Allen was Re: There's no proof of global warming

2005-09-21 Thread Michael Redler



Right-on Todd.

There have been REAL discussions on the disposal radioactive waste in any number of consumer products, in trace amounts.

The most"convenient"method of disposal so far has been in the production of depleted uranium munitions which areboth horribly destructive on the battlefield AND allows one to leave it in the countrywith which they were fighting, with little possibility of recovery.

Those who are too quick to accuse someone of being paranoid are watched carefully by those who are thinking of doing the seemingly unthinkable.

MikeAppal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
U., let's see Bob,Paranoia is it?You seem to forget at minimum thirty years of using thousand of US citizens as human guinea pigs for radioactive materials testing. That nasty little "paranoid" conspiracy theory unraveled in the early 90's.http://www.ippnw.org/MGS/V1N1McCally.htmlYou seem to forget the thousands of US military personel exposed during Operation Crossroads as well as thousands more intentionally positioned to observe atmospheric detonations of nuclear weapons at the Nevada test sites, not to mention the forty years of denial and deceit that followed.Let's forget the decades that literally millions of US citizens were exposed to fad, over-the-counter drugs containing radium, such as Dentarium, Ointarium, Kaparium, Linarium and just plain Arium, or the water "elixir" labeled "Radithor." They were
 all being deemed perfectly safe and denials were issued by all private and government entities fifteen years after people started dropping like flies and up to the very days that each was separately pulled from the market..You seem to forget that for thirty-eight years, between 1932 and 1970, the US Public Health Service and the Tuskegee Institute conducted studies on 399 black men diagnosed with syphilis. They intentionally withheld treatment and diagnostic information from these men for decades, treating them with "placebos" and setting up elaborate "free medical" schemes to keep their "study group" from venturing out of their purview so that they could maintain the "integrity" of their data.And even with such a dispersed yet long-lived historical track record and monumental data sets, you continually poo-poo and dismiss all reports or concerns of all other deceit and debilitating chicanery as if claims of such are
 the ravings of lunatics.Nonsense.One of us is either really gullible or really stupid Bob. You if you don't believe precisely what cold and calculated depths concerted public and private interests are capable of stooping to, and me if I accept your overly eager dismissals of anything and everything as being nothing more than "paranoia."Todd Swearingen**bob allen wrote:woo-woo alert!Charles Tounah wrote: Hello,As far as the grey layer of crud that's built up inthe atmosphere, there have been airplanes whose soleapparent purpose has been to lay that grey layer downin the atmosphere.  oh really? I have personally observed them in many different cities, even in different countries,for about
 the last five years. The phenomenon iscalled chemtrails, other than usual exhaust emissions- water vapor, CO2, and trace combustion products such as NOX, what is there? and you can find a whole education on the internet regarding it. www.carnicom.com woo-woo. woo-woo. (which I have not visited in years) is probably themost well-known. sorry for my sarcasm, but I will save my worrying over reality, and leave the really paranoid speculation to others. Charles Tounah  ___Biofuel mailing
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Re: [Biofuel] Dear Bob Allen was Re: There's no proof of global warming

Todd, other than everything you wrote was irrelevant to my writing, I 
agree with you whole-heartedly. My comments were directed at fears of 
chemtrails , which I stand by as paranoia until I see a lot more 
proof.  Show me some evidence that the observed chemtrails are something 
other than the usual vapor trails emitted from jets.  Show me a rational 
as to why someone or some entity would be doing such a thing.  For 
profit? meanness? world domination?  I just do not see much motive, do you?

more below


Appal Energy wrote:
 U., let's see Bob,
 
 Paranoia is it?
 
 You seem to forget at minimum thirty years of using thousand of US 
 citizens as human guinea pigs for radioactive materials testing. That 
 nasty little paranoid conspiracy theory unraveled in the early 90's.
 http://www.ippnw.org/MGS/V1N1McCally.html

You're preaching to the choir, here as I agree.


 
 You seem to forget the thousands of US military personel exposed during 
 Operation Crossroads as well as thousands more intentionally positioned 
 to observe atmospheric detonations of nuclear weapons at the Nevada test 
 sites, not to mention the forty years of denial and deceit that followed.

agreed
 
 Let's forget the decades that literally millions of US citizens were 
 exposed to fad, over-the-counter drugs containing radium, such as 
 Dentarium, Ointarium, Kaparium, Linarium and just plain Arium, or the 
 water elixir labeled Radithor. They were all being deemed perfectly 
 safe and denials were issued by all private and government entities 
 fifteen years after people started dropping like flies and up to the 
 very days that each was separately pulled from the market..

agreed

 
 You seem to forget that for thirty-eight years, between 1932 and 1970, 
 the US Public Health Service and the Tuskegee Institute conducted 
 studies on 399 black men diagnosed with syphilis. They intentionally 
 withheld treatment and diagnostic information from these men for 
 decades, treating them with placebos and setting up elaborate free 
 medical schemes to keep their study group from venturing out of their 
 purview so that they could maintain the integrity of their data.

agreed

 
 And even with such a dispersed yet long-lived historical track record 
 and monumental data sets, you continually poo-poo and dismiss all 
 reports or concerns of all other deceit and debilitating chicanery

No Todd, I don't.


  as if
 claims of such are the ravings of lunatics.

   You are extrapolating to what is not there.  I have never made such 
all encompassing claims.


If I use your logic,  I have to construe that you accept every claim 
regardless of source, or physical possibility, rational or not, as valid.

(plans for tinfoil helmets to protect from alien attempts to control our 
  minds are forthcoming.) :)

 
 Nonsense.
 
 One of us is either really gullible or really stupid Bob.


I guess I'll have to leave that to you as to which of us is what. I 
think it is plain stupid or gullible or both to not make a distinction 
between what I think is real and what is not.


  You if you
 don't believe precisely what cold and calculated depths concerted public 
 and private interests are capable of stooping to, and me if I accept 
 your overly eager dismissals of anything and everything 

not every thing and anything, I try to be selective.  Shouldn't you?

as being nothing
 more than paranoia.
 
 Todd Swearingen
 

and have a nice day, too Todd.

 **
 
 bob allen wrote:
 
 
woo-woo alert!


Charles Tounah wrote:
 


Hello,

As far as the grey layer of crud that's built up in
the atmosphere, there have been airplanes whose sole
apparent purpose has been to lay that grey layer down
in the atmosphere. 
   


oh really?




 I have personally observed them in
 


many different cities, even in different countries,
for about the last five years.  The phenomenon is
called chemtrails,
   


other than usual exhaust emissions- water vapor, CO2, and trace 
combustion products such as NOX, what is there?


 and you can find a whole education
 


on the internet regarding it.   www.carnicom.com
   


woo-woo. woo-woo.

 


(which I have not visited in years) is probably the
most well-known.
   



sorry for my sarcasm, but I will save my worrying over reality, and 
leave the really paranoid speculation to others.


 


Charles Tounah
   


 

 
 
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-- 
Bob Allen
http://ozarker.org/bob

Science is what we have learned about how to keep
from fooling ourselves — Richard Feynman

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Re: [Biofuel] First bach of Biodiesel

2005-09-21 Thread Andres Yver

Ok, let´s see, most latin tongues can be parsed by someone who knows at least one of them:

Dear Joe, temperature is a variable to be taken into account. Reaction speed varies with temperature. In other words, a higher temperature means a shorter reaction time. Notwithstanding, said processor at atmospheric pressure shouldn´t exceed 60 degrees centigrade, because methanol´s boiling point is close to 63 degrees centigrade.


Caro João, a temperatura é uma variável que deve ser levada em consideração  uma vez que a cinética da reacção varia com a temperatura, ou seja, maior  temperatura significa menor tempo de reacção. No
 entanto, num reactor à  pressão atmosférica não se deverá ultrapassar os 60ºC pois a temperatura de  ebulição do metanol é cerca de 63ºC.

sorry about the top post, i´m at an internet cafe and gmail doesn´t allow me to copy and paste within the form fields. ahhhrrrgghhh... beta level software at best

andres
On 9/21/05, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hello Zeke, your're wright, I'm Portuguese and so is João that's why my answerwas in Portuguese. In the future I will try to use the English.
Please feel free Filipe, if English is no strain for you that's nice,otherwise you and João and anyone else can write whatever languageyou like as long as it's in Roman characters that everyone's computer
can read. Google does English-Portuguese translations, so the rest ofus will manage somehow.http://www.google.com/language_tools?hl=enLanguage Tools
Best wishesKeith AddisonJourney to ForeverKYOTO Pref., Japanhttp://journeytoforever.org/Biofuel list ownerCitando Zeke Yewdall 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]: Haha.I've determined that I need to learn french and spanish at the least, to fully take advantage of international discussion forums.
 Drawback of being an american where we're raised to expect everyone to speak english Although if I'm not mistaken, Filipe's response was Portugese, right? On 9/20/05, Brian Rodgers 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:  Hey no fair I can't read this reply?  I wanted to hear it too.  Brian Rodgers  
  On 9/20/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:   Caro João, a temperatura é uma variável que deve ser levada em
 consideração   uma vez que a cinética da reacção varia com a temperatura, ou seja, maior   temperatura significa menor tempo de reacção. No entanto, num reactor à   pressão atmosférica não se deverá ultrapassar os 60ºC poisa temperatura
 de   ebulição do metanol é cerca de 63ºC. Boa sorte e disponha sempre Filipe Paulette   Chemical Engineer
 Citando joão martins [EMAIL PROTECTED]:Hi there,I plan to start doing the first bach of biodiesel, and
  I will use Methanol.I'd like to know if we need always to heat everything  to 50ºC, and way???Best Regards
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Re: [Biofuel] Dear Bob Allen was Re: There's no proof of global warming

Michael Redler wrote:
 Right-on Todd.

In Bob Allen's defense, the whole chemtrail theory is based on a 
LOT of conjecture and anecdotal evidence.  It seems to fall into the 
same category as vapor carburetors and free energy.  In other 
words, verifiable data to back up the claim either does not exist, or 
is so laced with emotional hype it's impossible to distinguish fact 
from fantasy.

Several winters ago, a chemtrail advocate posted a series of 
messages on a Usenet forum, complete with URL links, describing 
chemtrails impacting weather over Victoria, British Columbia.  One 
web site showed a picture of a spreading vapor trail, followed by 
images of cirrus clouds, then rain.

Now, I have lived downwind of Victoria for a number of years, and my 
wife even longer than I.  That kind of frontal weather pattern is 
NORMAL on the west coast.  To illustrate this, I posted messages 
concerning similar observations I had made over a period of several 
weeks.  One morning, I noticed a mysterious, white powder covering the 
ground.  It felt cold to the touch and had a tendency to attenuate 
sound.  I posted another message detailing a scientific experiment, in 
which I carefully placed a teaspoon of this white powder into my son's 
fish tank so I could observe its impact on living creatures.

The chemtrail advocate felt vindicated and boasted of his vast 
scientific knowledge, until someone pointed out that I live in British 
Columbia, where snow in February is not uncommon . . .

So, I can understand Bob Allen's skepticism.  If any of you would 
like to link chemtrails to changes in weather, please pull out some 
objective evidence for the rest of us to examine.


robert luis rabello
The Edge of Justice
Adventure for Your Mind
http://www.newadventure.ca

Ranger Supercharger Project Page
http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/



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Re: [Biofuel] There's no proof of global warming

2005-09-21 Thread Terry Dyck

A member of the International Panel on Climate Change from Victoria, BC, 
Canada was on a national radio program and he talked about the fact that he 
was asked to appear as a guest on a national American TV network (could have 
been NBC) to debate Global Warming.  The network wanted some one to take the 
other view point; that Global Warming didn't exist or wasn't caused by 
humans.  The Climate scientist said he would debate this issue with any one 
they chose as long as that person was a climate scientist and not an 
econmist.
The TV network could not find a climate scientist that would take the other 
viewpoint so the debate could not take place.

Terry Dyck


From: Michael Redler [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] There's no proof of global warming
Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 14:28:45 -0700 (PDT)

Are there any physicists in the house? Isn't true that greenhouse gases 
like CO2 are used for laser light excitation? isn't the theory behind the 
excitation of that band of light a practical (another) example of the 
effects of global warming?

The far right preaches theories based on pure emotion. A lack of 
understanding translates into the non-existence of that issue or idea. Even 
if I'm wrong about the above example, there is an abundance of scientific 
data about the physics which prove the effects of greenhouse gasses and 
that it highlights the far right's foundation in pure emotion and (for 
their brand of intellectuals) convoluted metaphysical beliefs.

That said, have you read Mein Kampf?

Mike

Tom Irwin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
BODY{font:10pt Tahoma, Verdana, sans-serif;}Hi All,

Yeah, right. Someone ought to tell Mr. Limbaugh that Rita was a tropical 
storm two days ago. It's entered the Gulf and is now at Catagory 2. It's 
heading west now and will probably increase in ferocity in the next 24-36 
hours. The water temperaturee in the gulf is still above 30C. Let's all 
burn more Dino since none of this is connected.

Tom








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[Biofuel] Food Miles and Sustainability

The Institute of Science in Society

Science Society Sustainability
http://www.i-sis.org.uk

This article can be found on the I-SIS website at 
http://www.i-sis.org.uk/FMAS.phphttp://www.i- sis.org.uk/FMAS.php

ISIS Press Release 21/09/05

Food Miles and Sustainability

What's behind the statistics and what should be done? 
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Dr. Mae-Wan Ho and 
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Rhea Gala

http://www.i-sis.org.uk/full/FMASFull.phpSources for this article 
are posted on ISIS members website. Details http://www.i- 
sis.org.uk/membership.phphere

Food miles an indicator of sustainability

Food transported across the world burns up a lot of fossil fuel and 
contributes to global warming. Food miles - the total distance in 
miles the food item is transported from field to plate - has become 
accepted as a convenient indicator of sustainability; and has led to 
a general movement towards local production and local consumption in 
order to minimize them. This raises fundamental questions about the 
sustainability of the globalised food trade and the increasing 
concentration of the food supply chain and distribution in the hands 
of fewer and fewer transnational corporations.

UK's Department of the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (DEFRA) 
has commissioned a report to look into The Validity of Food Miles as 
an Indicator of Sustainable Development, which was published in July 
2005. The company commissioned to do the report was AEA Technology, 
formerly part of the United Kingdom Atomic Energy Authority and now a 
private sector company that was floated on the London stock exchange 
in 1996. Given the narrow remit of the report, it nevertheless came 
up with some damning evidence against the dominant food system. The 
question is whether the political will is there to move forward from 
the discredited model.

Causes for the increase of food miles correctly identified

The report correctly identified the five most striking changes in the 
UK food production and supply chain in the last fifty years that have 
greatly increased food transport.

Globalisation of the food industry with increased imports and exports 
and ever wider sourcing of food within the UK and abroad 
Concentration of the food supply base into fewer, larger suppliers, 
partly to meet demand for bulk year-round supplies of uniform produce 
Major changes in delivery patterns with most goods now routed through 
supermarket regional distribution centres using larger HGVs (heavy 
goods vehicles) Centralised and concentrated sales in supermarkets 
where a weekly shop by car has replaced frequent pedestrian shop 
visits

These trends all add to food miles. Since 1978, the annual amount of 
food moved by HGVs in the UK has increased by 23 percent with the 
average distance for each trip also up by 50 percent.

The report stated, The rise in food miles has led to increases in 
the environmental, social and economic burdens associated with 
transport. These include carbon dioxide emissions, air pollution, 
congestion, accidents and noise. There is a clear cause and effect 
relationship for food miles for these burdens  and in general higher 
levels of vehicle activity lead to larger impacts.

It was against this background that DEFRA commissioned the study.

Scope of the report limited

The study was meant to:

Compile a food miles dataset covering the supply chain from farmer 
(both in the UK and abroad) to the consumer in 1992, 1997 and 2002. 
Assess the main trends leading to the increase in food miles at home 
and abroad Identify and quantify the environmental, economic and 
social impacts of food miles Develop a set of indicators which relate 
food miles to their main impacts on sustainability

These tasks are narrowly based and treat transport in isolation from 
the rest of the food cycle. The energy-intensive globalised 
industrial model that is accepted as given, and indeed actively 
promoted by the government and the food and drinks industry, 
inevitably entails a massive food transport system. A more holistic 
and useful remit for the study would have been one that looked at the 
energy demands of the whole industrial farming and food model, 
including its specialized transport needs against those of a 
localised organic, energy conscious model that prioritises energy 
conservation and minimizes waste (see Sustainable Food Systems for 
Sustainable Development http://www.i- 
sis.org.uk/isisnews.phpSiShttp://www.i- 
sis.org.uk/isisnews.php27). This would have sharpened the focus on 
the costs/benefits of the two food strategies and allowed the 
government to choose more rationally the one that is in the interests 
of the people and the environment that it currently only pays lip 
service to.

The study finds, unsurprisingly, that a single indicator based on 
total food miles is inadequate. That's because some miles such as air 
miles cost more in energy and carbon dioxide emissions; and others, 
such as HGV miles, cost more in

Re: [Biofuel] seeding a forage pasture

Lots of links and important info on pasture management
check http://www.rd1.com/web/content?in_section=3in_item=420

there's also a forum on http://www.fencepost.com/home.jhtml
kiwi farmers will certainly know what your talking about =)

Nope. No hits for ley apart from barley and stuff. I think I still 
keep my boots.

Try a Google search for ley farming and see what you get. Here you go:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=enlr=ie=ISO-8859-1q=%22ley+farming% 
22btnG=Search
ley farming - Google Search
Or:
http://snipurl.com/hull

Well, while I'm at it here are the first two hits:

Ley Farming - Contents
http://journeytoforever.org/farm_library/ley/leyToC.html
The event has proved it was fortunate that the idea of ley farming 
and re-seeding
worn out ... We have learned a great deal about ley farming since 1941; ...
journeytoforever.org/farm_library/ley/leyToC.html - 30k - Cached - 
Similar pages

Ley Farming - Chapter 6
http://journeytoforever.org/farm_library/ley/ley6.html
Implicit in the question of how to change over to ley farming is the ...
In general, it may be said that the case for ley farming is 
strongest in the ...
journeytoforever.org/farm_library/ley/ley6.html - 24k - Cached - Similar pages
[ More results from journeytoforever.org ]

You don't find much about ley farming anywhere else. There are a few 
books in Steve Solomon's Soil and Health Library, otherwise if you do 
find something it's probably about just one aspect of ley farming 
rather than the whole thing.

Ley farming is the culmination of the work done by the pioneers of 
organic farming, bringing it full circle. It's a fully sustainable 
farming system, low input, high output, high quality. As it happens 
it's also a rational basis for producing biofuels crops.

It wasn't just experimental, it was firmly established by people like 
Newman Turner, Sykes, Stapledon, Howard, Balfour and many others. It 
was spreading fast until sometime in the late 1960s, when it just 
seemed to die suddenly. The rest of the organic movement got buried 
by the chemicals interests but it didn't die, but ley farming 
vanished, though I'm sure it still must exist here and there.

Anyway, it wasn't because it didn't work, not even because it wasn't 
competitive. It was killed off, something like this, for but one 
example:

From the 1930's to the 1960's the free-range system was the popular 
way to raise poultry in the United states. It produced meaty, tender 
birds at a reasonable cost, using a reasonable amount of labor and 
providing valuable fertility to the land. Many farmers raised 
10,000-20,000 birds per year on short-grass pasture (range), both 
chickens and turkeys. With the rise of industrial agriculture and the 
development of the confinement broiler barn, this sustainable and 
profitable system was discontinued by means of withdrawing growers 
contracts. Left with no market or processing facilities the practice 
was abandoned within two or three years. However, even though the 
system was phased out here in the U.S., it has continued continuing 
popularity in Europe, even to the point of having legislated 
standards. In France, in 2000, over 20% of all poultry (90 million 
birds!) was raised using the free-range system.
http://www.free-rangepoultry.com/

The confinement guys owned the slaughter-houses, simple as that. Rich bullies.

I've had enough experience using the techniques of the organic 
pioneers, including parts of ley farming, to know that Newman Turner, 
Howard et al knew what they were talking about. IMO this is *the* 
sustainable farming system, and it should prove to be adaptable to a 
much wider ranger than just the temperate countries.

There's a section on ley farming in the Journey to Forever Small 
Farms Library, with quite a lot more to come (including Sykes, more 
Turner, more Faulkner, and Voisin), plus a section of the website 
coming on what we're doing here with ley farming, and why.

The library section is here:

Ley farming
http://journeytoforever.org/farm_library.html#ley

The general idea is that crops extract nutrients from the soil and if 
you want to grow more crops you have to replace the nutrients 
otherwise you exhaust the soil. But there's more than one way of 
replacing the nutrients.

Sow a piece of land with a good pasture mixture and then divide it 
in two with a fence. Graze one half heavily and repeatedly with 
cattle, mow the other half as necessary and leave the mowings there 
in place to decay back into the soil. On the grazed half, you've 
removed the crop (several times) and taken away a large yield of milk 
and beef. On the other half you've removed nothing. Plough up both 
halves and plant a grain crop, or any crop. Which half has the bigger 
and better yield? The grazed half, by far. Ley Farming explains why 
grass is the most important crop and how to manage grass leys. Leys 
are temporary pastures in a rotation, and provide more than enough 
fertility for the succeeding crops: working

Re: [Biofuel] global warming tipping point

2005-09-21 Thread Terry Dyck

Hi Keith,

I must compliment you on the great effort you are giving the world to reduce 
green house gases.
The work you are doing should be highly praised.  Right now though there 
seems to be a resistance to moving quicker; there doesn't seem to be a sense 
of urgency considering that we are so close to the tipping point.  Maybe 
some sort of legislation needs to be enacted such as restricting large 
trucks from using regular deisel instead of bio deisel.

Terry Dyck


From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] global warming tipping point
Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 22:55:54 +0900

Hello Terry, tallex and all

  Hello,
  Why not discuss the story and implications right here.
  This list is full of individuals that can help make a difference.

Can and have helped, are helping. Biofuel list members save lots of
carbon. It's been said the list has helped save more carbon than most
governments, or was it more than any government? Who knows.

It's one of the things I like about the biofuels movement that nobody
has any real idea how much biodiesel and ethanol and heating oil and
stuff people are making or re-using or whatever or how much fossil
fuel they're not using, but it's easy to figure that it's in the
millions of gallons a year and up in the US alone, and it's worldwide.

Anyway, I think the carbon saved is not just by making and using
biofuels, people take it in all kinds of directions with their own
projects and campaigns. I keep hearing of spin-offs I had no idea
existed, there must be many more of them.

 I am one of those individuals that would like to make a difference.  Were 
is
 the starting gate?  Lets get started.

Well I think we did get started already, long ago some of us. What
would you or anyone suggest we should do that we're not doing already?

If other members could say what they're doing and how they see it
that might be a start, and it would encourage others to do the same.

Best wishes

Keith


 
 Terry Dyck
  Believe me the well financed global warming skeptics and traditional 
fossil
  fuel suppliers
  won't win in the long run if we face them head on.
  We will be confronting serious problems in the near future from our 
past
  energy gluttony
  and disregard for the earth's natural ecosystems. We got ourselves into
  this mess
  and we are going to have to find sustainable solutions to develop a 
viable
  future for the planet.
  
  
  regards
  tallex
  
 ---Original Message---
 From: Kirk McLoren [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: [Biofuel] global warming tipping point
 Sent: 17 Sep '05 19:44
   
 [0]mad_goldfish writes The UK's Independent is running a front 
page
 story today on a scientific report claiming that [1]global warming 
is
  now
 unstoppable, after measuring changes in the level of ice in the
  arctic.
 From the article: The greatest fear is that the Arctic has reached 
a
 'tipping point' beyond which nothing can reverse the continual loss 
of
 sea ice and with it the massive land glaciers of Greenland, which 
will
 raise sea levels dramatically. Satellites monitoring the Arctic 
have
 found that the extent of the sea ice this August has reached its 
lowest
 monthly point on record, dipping an unprecedented 18.2 per cent 
below
  the
 long-term average. Either way, [2]someone wins a bet.
   
 Discuss this story at:
 http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=05/09/16/1514216
   
 Links:
 0. mailto:craig...nicol@@@gmail...com
 1.
   
  
 http://news.independent.co.uk/world/science_technology/article312997.ece
 2. 
http://science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/08/20/1845247tid=126
  


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Re: [Biofuel] First bach of Biodiesel

2005-09-21 Thread fil_paulette

Absolutely Correct, except for the name Joe, the translation of João to 
english is John.
Well done.
This is really a international community :)

Citando Andres Yver [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

 Ok, let´s see, most latin tongues can be parsed by someone who knows at
 least one of them:
  Dear Joe, temperature is a variable to be taken into account. Reaction
 speed varies with temperature. In other words, a higher temperature means a
 shorter reaction time. Notwithstanding, said processor at atmospheric
 pressure shouldn´t exceed 60 degrees centigrade, because methanol´s boiling
 point is close to 63 degrees centigrade.
  Caro João, a temperatura é uma variável que deve
  ser levada em consideração
   uma vez que a cinética da reacção varia com a
  temperatura, ou seja, maior
   temperatura significa menor tempo de reacção. No
  entanto, num reactor à
   pressão atmosférica não se deverá ultrapassar os
  60ºC pois a temperatura de
   ebulição do metanol é cerca de 63ºC.
  sorry about the top post, i´m at an internet cafe and gmail doesn´t allow
 me to copy and paste within the form fields. ahhhrrrgghhh... beta level
 software at best
  andres
 
 
  On 9/21/05, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  Hello Zeke, your're wright, I'm Portuguese and so is João that's why my
  answer
  was in Portuguese. In the future I will try to use the English.
 
  Please feel free Filipe, if English is no strain for you that's nice,
  otherwise you and João and anyone else can write whatever language
  you like as long as it's in Roman characters that everyone's computer
  can read. Google does English-Portuguese translations, so the rest of
  us will manage somehow.
 
  http://www.google.com/language_tools?hl=en
  Language Tools
 
  Best wishes
 
  Keith Addison
  Journey to Forever
  KYOTO Pref., Japan
  http://journeytoforever.org/
  Biofuel list owner
 
 
 
  Citando Zeke Yewdall [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
  
   Haha. I've determined that I need to learn french and spanish at the
   least, to fully take advantage of international discussion forums.
   Drawback of being an american where we're raised to expect everyone to
   speak english Although if I'm not mistaken, Filipe's response
   was Portugese, right?
  
   On 9/20/05, Brian Rodgers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hey no fair I can't read this reply?
I wanted to hear it too.
Brian Rodgers
   
   
On 9/20/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  
   wrote:
 Caro João, a temperatura é uma variável que deve ser levada em
   consideração
 uma vez que a cinética da reacção varia com a temperatura, ou seja,
  maior
 temperatura significa menor tempo de reacção. No entanto, num
  reactor à
 pressão atmosférica não se deverá ultrapassar os 60ºC pois a
  temperatura
   de
 ebulição do metanol é cerca de 63ºC.

 Boa sorte e disponha sempre

 Filipe Paulette
 Chemical Engineer

 Citando joão martins [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

 Hi there,

 I plan to start doing the first bach of biodiesel, and
 I will use Methanol.

 I'd like to know if we need always to heat everything
 to 50ºC, and way???

 Best Regards
 João Martins
 www.martinsportscar.com http://www.martinsportscar.com
 
 
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[Biofuel] E10 experience here in Manila

2005-09-21 Thread Patrick Anthony Opaco

Finally, I've already tried using E10. I'm a little bit hesitant using iton my5 month old carso I tried it first in my old 1990 Nissan California (carbuerator type) car. So far so good, is all I can say right now. One thing that I noticed (that is different from the conventional unleaded fuel) is that E10 starts my car instantly. Even if it's a cold start, it starts my engine instantly, unlike my other car which uses the traditional unleaded fuel. 


My question guys is, will E10 mess up a fuel injected car and that has a catalytic converter? My new car is very efficient in burning fuel. It can go 12-14kms in heavy traffic, if I put E10 will it mess up my fuel economy or will I achieve better fuel economy?


Thanks,
Patrick-- This is my email for mailing list purposes only. If you want to send a personal message to me please send it to anton.opaco AT gmail.coma href=""
http://www.spreadfirefox.com/?q=affiliatesamp;id=20532amp;t=1Get Firefox!/a 
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Re: [Biofuel] Ch 7 10PM News out of Boise

Hello all

Jerry Eyers wrote:
  Not to knock everyone who has responded so far, but such items do exist,
  although I don't believe 300 has been achieved, but there are documented
  cases of big block 350's getting over 200mpg.

   Documented by whom?  (By the way, a 350 is a small block.)  Under
what test conditions?


  The process involves replacing the standard carb with a vapor 
only carb (like a
  propane one) then pre-heating your fuel to a vapor, and feeding the
  vapor.

   I have a lot of experience running gaseous fuels in engines, and
NEVER have I seen any evidence that a fully vaporized fuel (such as
propane or methane) can attain higher efficiencies than a fuel
injected liquid fueled engine.  (Though it is true that certain gases,
hydrogen for example, can run leaner than gasoline.  However, the
difference in economy is incremental.)  The calorific value of gaseous
fuels is generally LESS than that of liquid fuels because they are not
as dense, yet the fuel economy remains proportional to the overall
energy available for combustion.

   To put it simply, vaporizing gasoline will not magically enhance fuel
economy.  Among some people, there remains a persistent myth that
liquid fueled internal combustion engines are incapable of fully
burning a fuel load.  People who believe this insist that the vast
majority of the air / fuel mixture leaving a combustion chamber is
unburned, yet this is simply NOT true!

But it's such a good line Robert. What d'you think of this? I've just 
been instructed by the would-be purveyors to add their link to the 
biodiesel section of my website so they can promote it (it's not 
called Brand X):

Brand X, the new KING of Global green energy by molecular science 
and has the potential to add 30% more to the Global known fossil fuel 
reserves. Brand X works on the concept of deionization of 
electrically charged particle formed by gaining or losing electrons 
in a solution. Brand X gives more kilometres to every litre, for all 
diesel and gasoline internal combustion engines, respectively. Brand 
X reduces GHG emission, substantially by enhancing a total combustion 
technology with higher efficiency. As fossil fuel is exhaustible and 
Brand X can help to consume less fuel, until economical alternative 
energy is found. It eliminates smog-forming pollutants in all diesel 
internal combustion engine exhaust. Brand X is compatible with all 
kinds of internal combustion engines fuel by gasoline, diesel or 
biofuel, including fuel from biomass. Green Brand X availability is 
inexhaustible on Earth and eco-friendly.

It works by 'binary fission' with additional vigour, by maximising 
combustion efficiency. Sounds great, think I'll buy some. Dammit, 
where's my wallet?

Best wishes

Keith


  That said, I don't know of ANY that have worked with diesel engines,
  only straight gas.

   A diesel engine will outperform a gasoline engine by virtue of higher
compression pressure and the lack of a throttle, which considerably
reduces pumping losses.  In addition, diesel fuel contains more energy
than gasoline.

robert luis rabello
The Edge of Justice
Adventure for Your Mind
http://www.newadventure.ca

Ranger Supercharger Project Page
http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/


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Re: [Biofuel] Ch 7 10PM News out of Boise

Keith Addison wrote:


 But it's such a good line Robert. What d'you think of this? I've just 
 been instructed by the would-be purveyors to add their link to the 
 biodiesel section of my website so they can promote it (it's not 
 called Brand X):

It's just missing the words plasma and quanta . . .

Thankfully, YOU have a brain and know how to use it!

robert luis rabello
The Edge of Justice
Adventure for Your Mind
http://www.newadventure.ca

Ranger Supercharger Project Page
http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/



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Re: [Biofuel] Food Miles and Sustainability

Keith Addison wrote:


 Food Miles and Sustainability

I know we've talked about this before.  Some food items that I 
consume regularly (like tea, for instance) come from halfway around 
the world.  I don't think we'll eliminate food miles completely, but 
buying locally and growing your own goes a long way toward 
mitigating the problem.

We harvested a bunch of potatoes from our garden last week.  They 
were the most flavorful I can recall eating (and I'm not a potato fan, 
having grown up on brown rice), but we have SO many there is simply no 
way we can eat them all.  (This has been generally true of our garden 
this year.  Our deep freeze is PACKED FULL of produce, and we're not 
done harvesting yet!  Friends and neighbors are teasing me about 
opening a produce stand. . . )  Our beets are deeply delicious. 
Carrots and strawberries, dark and sweet, are still growing even 
though the weather has begun getting cool.  We've had decent corn, 
too.  (A big surprise, as last year the plants never grew taller than 
the length of my elbow to finger tips!)  Purple beans, onions, squash, 
peas and currants were all very abundant.  The pumpkins didn't grow as 
big, but we've had a lot less rain than we did last year.  Only my 
fruit trees, save the beloved apple, have disappointed me.

All of this cost me some sweat, (which, at my age, doesn't hurt . . . 
) the price of the seed and the value of some metered water I put on 
the garden during the hot part of the summer.  Heavy loads of compost 
and decomposed barn litter were the only other things I added to the 
soil.  Less time in front of the television allows ample time for the 
plants.  It's a family activity that keeps us bonded close together, 
reminds us of our link to the earth, and helps in a small way to solve 
a host of environmental problems.

Be subversive!  Grow some vegetables!

robert luis rabello
The Edge of Justice
Adventure for Your Mind
http://www.newadventure.ca

Ranger Supercharger Project Page
http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/



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Re: [Biofuel] war with venezuela?

2005-09-21 Thread Richard Littrell

Dear Andres,

I am just guessing on the basis of having lived here a long time (the 
US) and watched how the government works in South America.  I see two 
possibilities not necessarily mutually exclusive.  The build up maybe 
just so much saber rattling, an attempt o scare Chavez into backing down 
on some of what the administration perceives as anti American activity.  
A darker possibility is the kind of action that the Johnson 
administration took in the 1960's in the Dominican Republic.  When an 
insurrection took place against our friend/lackey Trojillio (sp?) 
American troops were moved in to protect American lives with the 
result that the coup puppet was saved.  I would envision a CIA sponsored 
coup attempt which would be used as an excuse to go in and again 
protect Americans  with the fall of the Chavez government an 
unfortunate consequence.  Ordinarily I would not expect this to happen 
but with Oil in play anything goes with this administration.

Rick

Andres Yver wrote:

Egads!

Just got back from a dinner party with the local elite, and everyone 
was discussing an imminent US attack on Venezuela. As though it were 
fact. A done deal. Asking me (half yank) to explain what on earth is 
going on in the good old us of a.
Much chatter about 'surgical' strikes. Oil. Our host's grandparents 
(german expats, one the son of a Reich consul in Argentina) were there, 
recalling the late 30's when they were teenagers. Abyssinian 
'excursions', speeches at Nuremberg. Neville Chamberlain. Scary. And 
absurd, if true. Could Rove actually believe this will somehow help the 
administration's popularity? Or maybe approval ratings no longer 
matter. Not if the American public can no longer do anything about 
anything. Gotta get 'it' before China does? Chavez a loose cannon? 
Phone calls to friends in Caracas, lots of busy lines, hard to get 
through, people are heading out of town, or don't want to come back 
from their weekend trips. Generalized paranoia.
Is this possible? Has anyone heard of anything? Gold just hit a 16 year 
high today, and not just in debased dollar terms...

tell me it ain't so!

andres


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[Biofuel] Bio dielsel processing

2005-09-21 Thread David Lee

Hi,
I would like to know if there is anyone who can help me with information on a complete bio diesel processing plan capable of producing 1,000 gallons a day. I intend to use thousand gallon stainless steel tanks. I intend to take the first thousand gallon stainless steel tank, install some type of heating elements where I can then take the raw material (used cooking oil), heat it up and pump it through a filterisation system into a second thousand gallon stainless steel tank. I will then take the proper amounts of methanol and powdered lye and blend this mixture back and forth from the second thousand gallon tank into a
third thousand gallon tank. Does this system sound practical? If so, where can I learn more and possibly purchase the filterisation system, the pumping system, and the heating elements for my first thousand gallon tank or where I would be able to purchase such a tank? I have studied a few formulas on the internet and I would like to know your opinion on the following one: {you take 800 gallons of already filtered used cooking oil, add 200 gallons of methanol and 40lbs. of industrial or technical grade lye, blend this for 24hrs, therefore producing a bio diesel that would pass the ASTM U.S fuel test} If this formula is not accurate, where can I obtain a more accurate one that would pass the ASTM test?

Thank you very much for your time and your patience. I look forward to your reply.
Yours sincerely,
David LeeExpress yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! MSN Messenger Download today it's FREE!

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Re: [Biofuel] Ch 7 10PM News out of Boise

2005-09-21 Thread Trevon Kollars

Actually, the Chevy 350 has three variants; Small Block, Big Block, and the Blue Print (which isreally a 355).
The "rumors" of the 200 mpg and such are somewhat true. The small block 350 was able to run at 110 mpg on heated gasoline. The fuel was vaporized priorto entering the carb. The big block was able to run at around 80 mpg with the same apparatus. The problem was that the engines were not in a vehicle but in a test stand and actual numbers were not verified.
Smokey Yunick spent years working on a design and it was superseded by fuel injection which did thesame thing but mechanically.Gasoline can be vaporized just by pressure in much the same way an aerosol paint can works. Liquid to vapor by pressure. This works at optimum temp by try and start it cold and you won't get very far.
The propane and methane work but do not have the energy of gasoline or diesel for that matter. The best vapor to use is atomized gas with an injection of hydrogen. This will give you the best burn in a NA engine. You can supercool the air in the cylinder but you don't want to cool the intake. Cooling the cylinder will increase density but cooling the intake with create poor mixing, however, not the case with fuel injection. I don't want to get into the technical run-on the makes my wife's eyes glaze over and drool ooze out of her mouth, but lets say the atmosphere in the cylinder has to be more dense than the atmosphere outside... Compression! Diesel runs on this aspect. The old cotton ball in the syringe experiment. The more compression, the better the burn and bigger bang! Resulting in betterhp and efficiency.
You are right that the diesel will out perform the gasoline any day. Diesel is more efficient than gasoline but it is dirtier, that is the major reason that we don't have more diesels around. To give you an inside on the diesel... to make the diesel even better... turbo the hell out of it but do not put a supercharger on it. The more air the engine can pack in the better bang you will get and less diesel you will have to use. If you have a newer diesel vehicle with ECU and computer management controls that auto adjust the mixture, then you wont have to worry about adjusting manually.

Hope this inspired someone!

TKrobert luis rabello [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Jerry Eyers wrote: Not to knock everyone who has responded so far, but such items do exist, although I don't believe 300 has been achieved, but there are documented cases of big block 350's getting over 200mpg.Documented by whom? (By the way, a 350 is a small block.) Under what test conditions? The process involves replacing the standard carb with a vapor only carb (like a propane one) then pre-heating your fuel to a vapor, and feeding the vapor.I have a lot of experience running gaseous fuels in engines, and NEVER have I seen any evidence that a fully vaporized fuel (such as propane or methane) can attain higher efficiencies than a fuel injected liquid fueled engine. (Though it is true that certain gases, hydrogen for example, can run leaner than gasoline. However, the difference in
economy is incremental.) The calorific value of gaseous fuels is generally LESS than that of liquid fuels because they are not as dense, yet the fuel economy remains proportional to the overall energy available for combustion.To put it simply, vaporizing gasoline will not magically enhance fuel economy. Among some people, there remains a persistent myth that liquid fueled internal combustion engines are incapable of fully burning a fuel load. People who believe this insist that the vast majority of the air / fuel mixture leaving a combustion chamber is unburned, yet this is simply NOT true! That said, I don't know of ANY that have worked with diesel engines, only straight gas. A diesel engine will outperform a gasoline engine by virtue of higher compression pressure and the lack of a throttle, which considerably reduces pumping losses. In addition, diesel fuel contains more energy than
gasoline.robert luis rabello"The Edge of Justice"Adventure for Your Mindhttp://www.newadventure.caRanger Supercharger Project Pagehttp://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
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Re: [Biofuel] Ch 7 10PM News out of Boise

2005-09-21 Thread Jeromie Reeves

John Hayes wrote:

Jeromie Reeves wrote:

  

What do you drive that gets 45mpg? Are you running a 2 to 1 mix of 
BD/Petro, was that for starting, or both?



I drive a stock 2003 Jetta TDI 5-sp. I typically put in B100 homebrew 
and then top off at with commercial petrodiesel, either immediately or 
sometimes a couple of days later. The Jetta's recirculating pump takes 
care of any mixing right in the main fuel tank. No preblanding required.

Here's my last 10 fills:

BD Petro

7.511.533
6.011.367
0  16.003
6.010.462
10.5   5.864
0  15.280
5.09.554
4.910.087
0  14.200
9.97.290

You can clearly see that the ratio is not at all consistent. In reality, 
it is even more variable than that because I may not dilute the B100 
with petrodiesel until a couple of days later, meaning the engine may be 
running on a very high or very low BD blend at any given moment.

jh
  

It seams that there are a fair number of Jetta drivers on the list. Wish 
I could afford to buy one.  My Escort
get 29~35mpg on gasoline. For now I am looking to get a diesel pickup or 
wagon and setup a processor.
This is what my intrest in the processor that was mentioned in the news 
story is about (and yes ignoring the
fantasic mpg claims). It looks like you run on average more petro then 
bd. Any reason for this? How many
miles have you put on the car, how many with a bd mix? I have heard that 
bd tends to carbonize in the injectors.

Jeromie



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Re: [Biofuel] seeding a forage pasture

2005-09-21 Thread Gustl Steiner-Zehender

Hallo Folks,

Wednesday, 21 September, 2005, 15:20:54, you wrote:
...snip...
KA Nope. No hits for ley apart from barley and stuff. I think I still 
KA keep my boots.

KA Try a Google search for ley farming and see what you get. Here you go:

Try http://www.hotbot.com

or specifically

http://www.hotbot.com/default.asp?query=ley+farmingps=loc=searchboxtab=webprovKey=Google

for 14,600 results.  ;o)

Happy Happy,

Gustl
-- 
Je mehr wir haben, desto mehr fordert Gott von uns.

We can't change the winds but we can adjust our sails.

The safest road to Hell is the gradual one - the gentle slope, 
soft underfoot, without sudden turnings, without milestones, 
without signposts.  
C. S. Lewis, The Screwtape Letters

Es gibt Wahrheiten, die so sehr auf der Straße liegen, 
daß sie gerade deshalb von der gewöhnlichen Welt nicht 
gesehen oder wenigstens nicht erkannt werden.

Those who dance are considered insane by those who can't
hear the music.  
George Carlin

The best portion of a good man's life -
His little, nameless, unremembered acts of kindness and of love.
William Wordsworth



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Re: [Biofuel] Ch 7 10PM News out of Boise

Trevon Kollars wrote:
 Actually, the Chevy 350 has three variants; Small Block, Big Block, and 
 the Blue Print (which is really a 355).

You're confusing horsepower and building technique with casting type. 
  Go here for enlightenment:


http://proformanceunlimited.com/chevystreet.html

http://www.mortec.com/bbc.htm

http://www.mortec.com/castnum.htm


 The rumors of the 200 mpg and such are somewhat true.

Like someone can be somewhat pregnant?

  The small block 
 350 was able to run at 110 mpg on heated gasoline.  The fuel was 
 vaporized prior to entering the carb.  The big block was able to run at 
 around 80 mpg with the same apparatus.  The problem was that the engines 
 were not in a vehicle but in a test stand and actual numbers were not 
 verified.

If the numbers are not verified, they shouldn't be presented in this 
forum as factual.

 Smokey Yunick spent years working on a design and it was superseded by 
 fuel injection which did the same thing but mechanically.

No V 8 engine of 5 liters or greater displacement, fuel injected or 
not, comes CLOSE to the claim of 100 mpg in the real world.  Don't 
dodge the bullet!  And don't invoke the revered name of Smokey Yunick 
to support this kind of nonsense!


 The propane and methane work but do not have the energy of gasoline or 
 diesel for that matter.

This is what I said.  What you missed is that fuel economy with a 
gaseous fuel is PROPORTIONAL to its energy content.

  The best vapor to use is atomized gas with an 
 injection of hydrogen.  This will give you the best burn in a NA 
 engine. 

Oh no!  Hydrogen!

 You can supercool the air in the cylinder but you don't want to 
 cool the intake.

You're writing to a gearhead who drives a fuel injected, 
supercharged and intercooled truck every day.


 Hope this inspired someone!

Inspired someone to WHAT?  You need to get your facts straight!

robert luis rabello
The Edge of Justice
Adventure for Your Mind
http://www.newadventure.ca

Ranger Supercharger Project Page
http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/



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Re: [Biofuel] Iran's Nuclear Program

2005-09-21 Thread Hakan Falk


Joe,

I think that this idea was originally patented by the Italians, but 
the Mafia patent expired and it is now FFA (Free for all) and 
widely used by US.

Hakan


At 21:59 06/09/2005, you wrote:


we are the younger brother looking up to the big
brother for protection against bullies,

ROFLMFAO  So go to the biggest bully for protection is that it?
Yeah I guess that has been tried before.

Joe

John Mullan wrote:

Being Canadian myself (eh!) I have already accepted the fact that we are
not a collection of provinces and territories.  Rather, we are 13
states.  What chance in hell would we ever have of defending against the
good old U.S. of A.

Don't get me wrong.  I don't ever want our 2 countries to EVER have a
relationship that would necessitate such defence.  I'm just merely
pointing out that we are the younger brother looking up to the big
brother for protection against bullies, even if we have the occassional
sibling spats.  Our forces are only a token and the troops are an
additional source for our big brother to draw from.  IMHO.

Cheers,
John


On 9/6/2005, Joe Street 
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



You're assuming Canada has the bucks to replace lost aircraft.  Rather a
naive assumption. LOL. The Canadian military is little more than a token
peace keeping force.  I come from a family with a long history of
military service and I hate to say it and I hope I am not offending
anyone of Canadian military but our forces are a joke for a country of
this size and most of the serious equipment is either obsolete or
heading that way because we can't afford the big time. The last time
there was a serious mobilization effort, we had to buy back combat
uniforms from military surplus outlets (at a premium what a laugh)
because there weren't enough for everyone!  Sure we have some quite
sophisticated stuff but not nearly enough of it.  It is one thing to
show up at the scene of a fire (started by the US of course) and set up
camp with a bunch of flashy stuff and some troops.  It may even have the
look of a credible fighting force but it is quite another story to hold
the longest undefended border in the world should it one day require
defending. Hell we can barely afford to keep our social programs afloat
never mind dealing with attrition while trying to defend our natural
resources against US agression.

Joe

mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



no disrespect joe, but but you're assuming here that a given government
wouldn't replace the lost aircraft.  rather a naive notion.  high attrition
conflicts occur precisely because the opposing governments are 
determined to carry on
fighting despite the losses.

-chris b.


In a message dated 8/30/05 10:14:02 AM, 
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:





Except the loss of a pilot is most likely accompanied by the loss of an

aircraft so when they are all gone what good does it do to have a bunch

of trained pilots standing around with nothing to fly??

Joe




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Re: [Biofuel] Dear Bob Allen was Re: There's no proof of global warming

2005-09-21 Thread Appal Energy

Actually Bob,

We both know that what was written was far from irrelevant in light of 
your heavily nuanced statement that those who tend to think of the 
possible (or at least the chemtrail possibility) are essentially paranoid.

What I pointed out was the fact that on numerous occassions what was 
previously deemed to be unthinkable has been revealed to be actual fact, 
replete with wanton collusion, fraud and wreckless disregard for human 
life. And even when found out, the rationale is what? That those who 
object aren't looking at the bigger picture?

Enter Josef Mengele..., all for the greater good, right?

So one would think that knowing what you know and in light of the 
historical record of deviant human behaviors, you might be a little less 
half-cocked and not so flip with your dismissals. Something as simple as 
aerial dispersal of unknown materials upon an unaware public is 
completely within the realm of reason, and in fact, it's already been 
accomplished on a number of occassions. Google search Green Run and 
then follow up on the numerous other intentional releases for research.

And as you well know, absence of proof is not proof of absence, as all 
the examples provided in my post unerrantly point out.

But you'd rather declare the thoughts of those who perceive such as 
being paranoid. This game of plausible denial, or just flat out 
denial, that you play is devious, destructive, distracting and 
fraudulently manipulative, no matter whether it is intentional or not. 
And we both can be pretty sure that it's not exactly unintentional.

As for

  If I use your logic, I have to construe that you accept every claim
  regardless of source, or physical possibility, rational or not, as valid.

Not at all McDuff. You don't have to construe any such thing. In fact, 
if you do, you're playing a little fast and loose with the rules of 
logic, much less how I would and do apply them.

To deny, disregard and vaguely denegrate as flippantly as you do is 
foolhardy, deceptive, distracting and even illogical, especially in 
light of what has transpired in nearly inumerable instances and is no 
doubt occurring somewhere, in some venue or another, several times over 
as this is being typed. The same can also be said about those who openly 
accept every claim as being irrefutable fact.

While you may take the route of glib dismissal, I'd rather keep one eye 
open and half a wit aware should ever a confirming slip of proof (paper 
trail or other) be stumbled across, as all things are possible, 
plausible, and all too often probable when dealing with the aberrance of 
the human mind.

Todd Swearingen

Todd, other than everything you wrote was irrelevant to my writing, I 
agree with you whole-heartedly. My comments were directed at fears of 
chemtrails , which I stand by as paranoia until I see a lot more 
proof.  Show me some evidence that the observed chemtrails are something 
other than the usual vapor trails emitted from jets.  Show me a rational 
as to why someone or some entity would be doing such a thing.  For 
profit? meanness? world domination?  I just do not see much motive, do you?

more below


Appal Energy wrote:
  

U., let's see Bob,

Paranoia is it?

You seem to forget at minimum thirty years of using thousand of US 
citizens as human guinea pigs for radioactive materials testing. That 
nasty little paranoid conspiracy theory unraveled in the early 90's.
http://www.ippnw.org/MGS/V1N1McCally.html



You're preaching to the choir, here as I agree.


  

You seem to forget the thousands of US military personel exposed during 
Operation Crossroads as well as thousands more intentionally positioned 
to observe atmospheric detonations of nuclear weapons at the Nevada test 
sites, not to mention the forty years of denial and deceit that followed.



agreed
  

Let's forget the decades that literally millions of US citizens were 
exposed to fad, over-the-counter drugs containing radium, such as 
Dentarium, Ointarium, Kaparium, Linarium and just plain Arium, or the 
water elixir labeled Radithor. They were all being deemed perfectly 
safe and denials were issued by all private and government entities 
fifteen years after people started dropping like flies and up to the 
very days that each was separately pulled from the market..



agreed

  

You seem to forget that for thirty-eight years, between 1932 and 1970, 
the US Public Health Service and the Tuskegee Institute conducted 
studies on 399 black men diagnosed with syphilis. They intentionally 
withheld treatment and diagnostic information from these men for 
decades, treating them with placebos and setting up elaborate free 
medical schemes to keep their study group from venturing out of their 
purview so that they could maintain the integrity of their data.



agreed

  

And even with such a dispersed yet long-lived historical track record 
and monumental data sets, you continually poo-poo and dismiss all 
reports or

Re: [Biofuel] E10 experience here in Manila

2005-09-21 Thread Darryl McMahon

Patrick Anthony Opaco [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Finally, I've already tried using E10. I'm a little bit hesitant using it on
 my 5 month old car so I tried it first in my old 1990 Nissan California
 (carbuerator type) car. So far so good, is all I can say right now. One
 thing that I noticed (that is different from the conventional unleaded fuel)
 is that E10 starts my car instantly. Even if it's a cold start, it starts my
 engine instantly, unlike my other car which uses the traditional unleaded
 fuel.
  My question guys is, will E10 mess up a fuel injected car and that has a
 catalytic converter? My new car is very efficient in burning fuel. It can go
 12-14kms in heavy traffic, if I put E10 will it mess up my fuel economy or
 will I achieve better fuel economy?

I have used E10 for several years in a number of vehicles in Canada.  I don't 
know 
if anything is different for vehicles or fuel in Manila, but I suspect not.  I 
have 
used it in vehicles with carburetors and fuel injectors.  So, this is based on 
my 
experience, but I cannot guarantee yours will be the same.

No detrimental effects on the catalytic converters.  We have used E10 with 
several 
vehicles with catalytic converters.

The ethanol works as both a fuel system cleaner and a gas-line antifreeze.  I 
suspect frozen gas lines are not a problem in Manila, but they are here.  With 
E10 
I have never clogged a fuel filter, though I have heard apocryphal tales of 
this 
happening in older cars that switched from regular unleaded to E10.  Didn't 
happen 
on my Dodge van with at least 10 years on regular before E10, or a Chrysler New 
Yorker with five years on regular before E10.  The E10 should keep your 
injectors 
cleaner.

The ethanol has fractionally less energy in it per unit volume than regular 
gasoline, but typically a higher octane rating.  Nominally, your mileage should 
fall marginally when you switch to E10.  However, given your fuel is only 10% 
ethanol, and the energy per litre drop is small, you are unlikely to notice the 
difference.  I have done before and after fuel economy records on two vehicles 
we 
switched from regular to E10 and found no difference in overall fuel economy 
between the two.

Finally, check your owner's manual.  Most now state that ethanol blends up to 
E10 
are perfectly acceptable in place of regular unleaded for virtually every car 
and 
light truck built (at least in North America) for the past five to ten years.  
If 
it is not in the manual, check with the manufacturer (website).

Of course, YMMV (your mileage may vary).  (Sorry, couldn't resist.)

-- 
Darryl McMahon  http://www.econogics.com/
It's your planet.  If you won't look after it, who will?



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Re: [Biofuel] Ch 7 10PM News out of Boise

2005-09-21 Thread Darryl McMahon

Oh, come on Keith!  Everyone knows you can't get that kind of performance 
improvement without magnets and hydrogen injection using on-board splitting of 
water based on zero-point energy.  I like the binary fission angle though.  
Imagine the kinds of performance improvements we'll get when I finish my 
research 
on trinary fission (based on tritium, don't you know).

Isn't fission elemental science, rather than molecular science?

Facetiously yours,

Darryl McMahon

Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Hello all
 
 Jerry Eyers wrote:
   Not to knock everyone who has responded so far, but such items do exist,
   although I don't believe 300 has been achieved, but there are documented
   cases of big block 350's getting over 200mpg.
 
  Documented by whom?  (By the way, a 350 is a small block.)  Under
 what test conditions?
 
 
   The process involves replacing the standard carb with a vapor 
 only carb (like a
   propane one) then pre-heating your fuel to a vapor, and feeding the
   vapor.
 
  I have a lot of experience running gaseous fuels in engines, and
 NEVER have I seen any evidence that a fully vaporized fuel (such as
 propane or methane) can attain higher efficiencies than a fuel
 injected liquid fueled engine.  (Though it is true that certain gases,
 hydrogen for example, can run leaner than gasoline.  However, the
 difference in economy is incremental.)  The calorific value of gaseous
 fuels is generally LESS than that of liquid fuels because they are not
 as dense, yet the fuel economy remains proportional to the overall
 energy available for combustion.
 
  To put it simply, vaporizing gasoline will not magically enhance fuel
 economy.  Among some people, there remains a persistent myth that
 liquid fueled internal combustion engines are incapable of fully
 burning a fuel load.  People who believe this insist that the vast
 majority of the air / fuel mixture leaving a combustion chamber is
 unburned, yet this is simply NOT true!
 
 But it's such a good line Robert. What d'you think of this? I've just 
 been instructed by the would-be purveyors to add their link to the 
 biodiesel section of my website so they can promote it (it's not 
 called Brand X):
 
 Brand X, the new KING of Global green energy by molecular science 
 and has the potential to add 30% more to the Global known fossil fuel 
 reserves. Brand X works on the concept of deionization of 
 electrically charged particle formed by gaining or losing electrons 
 in a solution. Brand X gives more kilometres to every litre, for all 
 diesel and gasoline internal combustion engines, respectively. Brand 
 X reduces GHG emission, substantially by enhancing a total combustion 
 technology with higher efficiency. As fossil fuel is exhaustible and 
 Brand X can help to consume less fuel, until economical alternative 
 energy is found. It eliminates smog-forming pollutants in all diesel 
 internal combustion engine exhaust. Brand X is compatible with all 
 kinds of internal combustion engines fuel by gasoline, diesel or 
 biofuel, including fuel from biomass. Green Brand X availability is 
 inexhaustible on Earth and eco-friendly.
 
 It works by 'binary fission' with additional vigour, by maximising 
 combustion efficiency. Sounds great, think I'll buy some. Dammit, 
 where's my wallet?
 
 Best wishes
 
 Keith
 
 
   That said, I don't know of ANY that have worked with diesel engines,
   only straight gas.
 
  A diesel engine will outperform a gasoline engine by virtue of higher
 compression pressure and the lack of a throttle, which considerably
 reduces pumping losses.  In addition, diesel fuel contains more energy
 than gasoline.
 
 robert luis rabello
 The Edge of Justice
 Adventure for Your Mind
 http://www.newadventure.ca
 
 Ranger Supercharger Project Page
 http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/
 
 
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-- 
Darryl McMahon  http://www.econogics.com/
It's your planet.  If you won't look after it, who will?



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Re: [Biofuel] Cuba Willing to Send Immediate Medical Help

2005-09-21 Thread Hakan Falk


I agree, Cuba is known for high quality medical professionals and
it would be a good help. It is not necessary to speculate in any
political plots, when help is offered in crisis situations. Cuba cannot
be worse than others who tie their help programs to image building.

Hakan


At 22:26 06/09/2005, you wrote:
Why don't you take a shot at it and we'll let the group decide on the
merits of your argument, eh?

jh

Juan Gutierrez wrote:
  If I have to explain it, that will fly right by you also
 
 
 From: John Hayes [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
 To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Cuba Willing to Send Immediate Medical Help
 Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2005 14:55:31 -0400
 
 Juan Gutierrez wrote:
 
 See I thought you guys had some idea. In Cuba all 18 year olds go to
 military trainning before thats women and men before they get put in the
 career choice of the government. Including Doctor's and Scientists.
 
 So do Austria, Brazil, Croatia, Finland, Greece, Germany, Israel, Italy,
   Norway, South Korea, Sweden, Switzerland, Venezuela and about 20 other
 countries.
 
 Your point was what? Please tell me you're not actually claiming the
 Cubans are going to invade the US are you?
 
 Are you living in some bizarre John Milius fantasy world? I'll let you
 in on a little secret - Red Dawn was just a movie, and not a very good
 one at that. Jennifer Grey and Patrick Swayze can't act, I've seen porn
 with better dialog and the plot had more holes than a pair of fishnet
 stockings.
 
 jh



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Re: [Biofuel] Ch 7 10PM News out of Boise

  The problem was that the engines
 were not in a vehicle but in a test stand and actual numbers were not
 verified.

This is one of those special cases where the engine only has to move
it's own weight, via a weightless, frictionless, 100% efficient
drivetrain I guess.  Man, I've wanted one of those for years   My
running shoes theoretically can run a marathon every morning too.  The
only problem is that they're on my lazy feet in the office and have to
move me around.

If they were grams per horsepower-hour numbers, or kWh per BTU or
something of those units from the fancy vaporizing carbureator or
different fuel mixtures or additives, I could at least believe that a
serious test was done, but the fact that they translated whatever real
results they got, via weegey board numbers for rolling resistance,
drivetrain resistance, air resistance, etc...  into some estimated
miles per gallon, is what makes me think that they were just made up. 
If they assumed the same rest-of-vehicle efficiency as the existing
carbureated car (about 20mpg tops), then we have to assume that they
measured 5 times the engine efficiency, which I can't believe.  If
they assumed a different car, then what were those assumptions?

By the way, I also saw claims that the plug-in prius can get 120mpg or
more -- because of course it is largely using stored electricity for
the first 20 miles.  Another case of someone failing elementary
physics and not doing an energy balance on the system.  If some new
invention or breakthrough can't pass this basic test, I usually
automatically dismiss anything further, whether it's my area of
expertise or not.  Because I DO understand the first law of
thermodynamics.  It's darned annoying at times, but I haven't found
away around it yet.

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Re: [Biofuel] E10 experience here in Manila

Here in Colorado, at least half the gas stations carry only E10
instead of regular gas in the wintertime.  Because of the high
altitude, and our smog problems, they put it in to try to oxygenate
the gas and encourage cleaner combustion.  I know people who avoid the
stations with E10 and only buy 100% gasoline, but I haven't noticed
any difference in my car (1989 fuel injected)

On 9/21/05, Darryl McMahon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Patrick Anthony Opaco [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  Finally, I've already tried using E10. I'm a little bit hesitant using it on
  my 5 month old car so I tried it first in my old 1990 Nissan California
  (carbuerator type) car. So far so good, is all I can say right now. One
  thing that I noticed (that is different from the conventional unleaded fuel)
  is that E10 starts my car instantly. Even if it's a cold start, it starts my
  engine instantly, unlike my other car which uses the traditional unleaded
  fuel.
   My question guys is, will E10 mess up a fuel injected car and that has a
  catalytic converter? My new car is very efficient in burning fuel. It can go
  12-14kms in heavy traffic, if I put E10 will it mess up my fuel economy or
  will I achieve better fuel economy?

 I have used E10 for several years in a number of vehicles in Canada.  I don't 
 know
 if anything is different for vehicles or fuel in Manila, but I suspect not.  
 I have
 used it in vehicles with carburetors and fuel injectors.  So, this is based 
 on my
 experience, but I cannot guarantee yours will be the same.

 No detrimental effects on the catalytic converters.  We have used E10 with 
 several
 vehicles with catalytic converters.

 The ethanol works as both a fuel system cleaner and a gas-line antifreeze.  I
 suspect frozen gas lines are not a problem in Manila, but they are here.  
 With E10
 I have never clogged a fuel filter, though I have heard apocryphal tales of 
 this
 happening in older cars that switched from regular unleaded to E10.  Didn't 
 happen
 on my Dodge van with at least 10 years on regular before E10, or a Chrysler 
 New
 Yorker with five years on regular before E10.  The E10 should keep your 
 injectors
 cleaner.

 The ethanol has fractionally less energy in it per unit volume than regular
 gasoline, but typically a higher octane rating.  Nominally, your mileage 
 should
 fall marginally when you switch to E10.  However, given your fuel is only 10%
 ethanol, and the energy per litre drop is small, you are unlikely to notice 
 the
 difference.  I have done before and after fuel economy records on two 
 vehicles we
 switched from regular to E10 and found no difference in overall fuel economy
 between the two.

 Finally, check your owner's manual.  Most now state that ethanol blends up to 
 E10
 are perfectly acceptable in place of regular unleaded for virtually every car 
 and
 light truck built (at least in North America) for the past five to ten years. 
  If
 it is not in the manual, check with the manufacturer (website).

 Of course, YMMV (your mileage may vary).  (Sorry, couldn't resist.)

 --
 Darryl McMahon  http://www.econogics.com/
 It's your planet.  If you won't look after it, who will?



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Re: [Biofuel] 2 questions about BD production

Most of what I've read implies that B100 has less btu/gallon the #2
diesel.  However I think this does vary based on what feedstock it's
made of.  I know that when I ran a '74 mercedes diesel from SVO
instead of diesel, all of the knocking at idle went away and you could
hear the lifters again, and biodiesel made some of the knocking go
away, though not all.No quantitative data on this unfortuneatly.

I looked up the ratings of #1 and #2 diesel, and found that is is
supposedly about 45 for #1, and 40 for #2.

The solvent effect is interesting.  Perhaps keeping the injector clean
is the benefit? But I thought that modern diesel had detergents and
such included in it to do this.

On 9/20/05, Evergreen Solutions [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
  I thought that biodiesel already had a bit higher cetane rating than
  #2 diesel?  I know that my truck knocks alot on D2 compared to
  biodiesel, or even B20.


  Honestly, I don't know. I've read some research which indicates that BD has
 less energy per unit than D2, and some which swears that it has more, and
 some that says it has the same. I would hasten to wonder if perceived
 performance gains aren't from the solvent-effects of BD versus the residue
 effects of D2?

  Thanks!



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[Biofuel] turbocharged vs supercharged diesels

to make the diesel even better... turbo the hell out of it but do not
put a supercharger on it.

This was in another thread going off another direction.  But my
question is, why not supercharge a diesel engine.  There must be some
reason, because you don't seem them too often (we have a supercharged
2 cycle 2 cylinder direction injection diesel engine in a 1953
bulldozer, but aside from that I haven't seen one).  Is it just that
it is higher efficiency to use the heat of exhaust gases that would be
wasted anyway, vs taking HP off the crankshaft to run a compressor? 
But there is a big advantage in materials to a supercharger in that it
doesn't have to withstand the heat of the exhaust and go through
cooldown after working hard to avoid seizing the bearings, and I would
think engine manufacturers would sieze on any cheaper way to get more
power out of a diesel (since everyone in the US thinks they are
slow...).

I have no problem with turbodiesels, just wondering why that design
won out over supercharging.

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[Biofuel] Methanol Miami Florida ?

2005-09-21 Thread Felipe Navarrete

Anyone know a cheap source of methanol in Miami Florida?

Also I still need a source for purchasing a PH tester.


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Re: [Biofuel] E10 experience here in Manila

2005-09-21 Thread Ramon

Hello Patrick,
Pardon my ignorance - what is E10? Is this a 10% Ethanol blend? also is such a blend commercially available in Manila? or are you mixing your own?
Regards,
Mon
On 9/21/05, Patrick Anthony Opaco [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Finally, I've already tried using E10. I'm a little bit hesitant using iton my5 month old carso I tried it first in my old 1990 Nissan California (carbuerator type) car. So far so good, is all I can say right now. One thing that I noticed (that is different from the conventional unleaded fuel) is that E10 starts my car instantly. Even if it's a cold start, it starts my engine instantly, unlike my other car which uses the traditional unleaded fuel.

My question guys is, will E10 mess up a fuel injected car and that has a catalytic converter? My new car is very efficient in burning fuel. It can go 12-14kms in heavy traffic, if I put E10 will it mess up my fuel economy or will I achieve better fuel economy?

Thanks,
Patrick-- This is my email for mailing list purposes only. If you want to send a personal message to me please send it to anton.opaco AT
gmail.coma href="" http://www.spreadfirefox.com/?q=affiliatesamp;id=20532amp;t=1
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[Biofuel] Does anyone distill ethanol here?

2005-09-21 Thread Aragorn

Hello

I an trying to find info on distilling fuel ethanol. 

It seems that this group is almost totallybiodeisel. 

If no one distills ethanol here, then I am sorry for inconveviencing the group with my posts.

Thanks
Bob
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Re: [Biofuel] Bio dielsel processing

2005-09-21 Thread Ramon

I believe there are commercial plants you can purchase that will produce that volume (not sure though but I contacted Pacific Biodiesel in Hawaii a couple of years ago and they did send me some information about this 
http://www.biodiesel.com/ )
Ramon

On 9/21/05, David Lee [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



Hi,
 I would like to know if there is anyone who can help me with information on a complete bio diesel processing plan capable of producing 1,000 gallons a day.
 I intend to use thousand gallon stainless steel tanks. I intend to take the first thousand gallon stainless steel tank, install some type of heating elements where I can then take the raw material (used cooking oil), heat it up and pump it through a filterisation system into a second thousand gallon stainless steel tank.
 I will then take the proper amounts of methanol and powdered lye and blend this mixture back and forth from the second thousand gallon tank into a third thousand gallon tank. Does this system sound practical?
 If so, where can I learn more and possibly purchase the filterisation system, the pumping system, and the heating elements for my first thousand gallon tank or where I would be able to purchase such a tank?
 I have studied a few formulas on the internet and I would like to know your opinion on the following one: {you take 800 gallons of already filtered used cooking oil, add 200 gallons of methanol and 40lbs. of industrial or technical grade lye, blend this for 24hrs, therefore producing a bio diesel that would pass the ASTM 
U.S fuel test} If this formula is not accurate, where can I obtain a more accurate one that would pass the ASTM test?

Thank you very much for your time and your patience. I look forward to your reply.
Yours sincerely,
David Lee

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Re: [Biofuel] Methanol handling tips needed

2005-09-21 Thread Darryl West

Hi Guys,

I am at the same point as you John trying to get a 5 Gallon processor going.
I have found getting a submersible heating element a hassle.  Can anyone
suggest a place to get an old (or maybe new) element as I have looked around
and haven't come across anything!  (I am most likely looking in the wrong
places)

Cheers
Darryl

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Keith Addison
Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2005 11:33 PM
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Methanol handling tips needed

Hello John

Greetings,

I'm finally finding the time to make a processor, but find myself
hanging on a couple of points.  First off I'm just going with
something that resembles the 5gal processor listed on JTF to start.
The problem is that I'm not grasping the process in handling the
methanol and lye properly.  The idea of forcing air into the methoxide
tank thus forcing methoxide out other tube into processor makes sence.
 I just dont see where/how the methanol and lye are measured and
placed into mixing container to begin with.

Use translucent HDPE containers for mixing methanol and mark them at 
the required volume. Use the air pump to pump methanol out of the 
container it comes in into the mixing container to the required 
volume. Weight out the lye (or KOH), we measure it out into plastic 
bags on the scales (adjusted for the weight of the bag) so that 
there's minimal exposure to the air and moisture in the air. Then add 
it to the methanol mixing container. Opening the lid for this purpose 
won't expose you to fumes as the methanol is at room temperature and 
it's not being agitated. We use a funnel made from the top of a 
2-litre PET bottle (the kind you buy water in) to pour the KOH in 
from its plastic bag. Mix it this way: Methoxide the easy way
http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_aleksnew.html#easymeth

Then pump it into the processor with the air-pump.

So, I'm looking for
pointers on how others measure and handle these to get them into mix
tank.  Additonally, I'm not sure what to use for heating element
(electric at this point) so would appreciate any insight on this as
well.

With the 5-gal processor type you're more or less confined to 
electric heating, those cans don't last very long with an open flame 
under them. You can only use an open heat source for pre-heating the 
oil anyway - no more open flames as soon as there's any methanol 
involved. Maybe a heat exchanger would do, but that would probably be 
a bit of a hassle in only a 5-gal can. Get a submersion heating 
element, stainless steel, about 1.5 kw should do or maybe less. Try 
to get one that fits (unlike ours!).

Best wishes

Keith


Thanks,
John


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Re: [Biofuel] Dear Bob Allen was Re: There's no proof of global warming

Dearest Todd, once again you've strayed from my original rejoinder to the the 
chemtrail post, and 
gone off on a tangent involving plausible denial or some such.  Let's get 
back to my derision:

a few links to chemtrails sites via google:
featuring ufos
http://www.rense.com/general53/lum.htm
a chemtrail rainbow- so water vapor refracts light, so?
http://www.rense.com/general53/lum.htm
chemtrails hazing the grand canyon?  the four-corners coal fired power plant is 
a much more 
plausible explanation.
http://www.carnicom.com/contrails.htm
and on and on.

The problem I have with the whole chem trail story is that the are simple 
plausible explanations for 
the observations:  water vapor from jet exhaust and correlations between events 
which are not causal.

Let's stick to one issue at a time lest we run in circles and forget  what we 
are discussing.  Show 
me the evidence.  Sure attempts have been made, generally unsuccessfully as I 
recall to seed the 
clouds with sliver iodide to increase the chance of rain fall, sure their are 
low level crop dusters 
spreading no end of pesticides, sure their are sky writers proclaiming tony's 
love for cleo.  But 
where is the evidence for a conspiracy to harm the public? Or public harm as a 
side product to 
personal greed, or even as a side product intended to do good. When you find 
such evidence, I will 
be  ready to believe, until then, as far as I am concerned the data falls in 
the category of 
zero-point energy and and anything from hulda clark.



Appal Energy wrote:
 Actually Bob,
 
 We both know that what was written was far from irrelevant in light of 
 your heavily nuanced statement that those who tend to think of the 
 possible (or at least the chemtrail possibility) are essentially paranoid.
 
 What I pointed out was the fact that on numerous occassions what was 
 previously deemed to be unthinkable has been revealed to be actual fact, 
 replete with wanton collusion, fraud and wreckless disregard for human 
 life. And even when found out, the rationale is what? That those who 
 object aren't looking at the bigger picture?
 
 Enter Josef Mengele..., all for the greater good, right?
 
 So one would think that knowing what you know and in light of the 
 historical record of deviant human behaviors, you might be a little less 
 half-cocked and not so flip with your dismissals. Something as simple as 
 aerial dispersal of unknown materials upon an unaware public is 
 completely within the realm of reason, and in fact, it's already been 
 accomplished on a number of occassions. Google search Green Run and 
 then follow up on the numerous other intentional releases for research.
 
 And as you well know, absence of proof is not proof of absence, as all 
 the examples provided in my post unerrantly point out.
 
 But you'd rather declare the thoughts of those who perceive such as 
 being paranoid. This game of plausible denial, or just flat out 
 denial, that you play is devious, destructive, distracting and 
 fraudulently manipulative, no matter whether it is intentional or not. 
 And we both can be pretty sure that it's not exactly unintentional.
 
 As for
 
   If I use your logic, I have to construe that you accept every claim
   regardless of source, or physical possibility, rational or not, as valid.
 
 Not at all McDuff. You don't have to construe any such thing. In fact, 
 if you do, you're playing a little fast and loose with the rules of 
 logic, much less how I would and do apply them.
 
 To deny, disregard and vaguely denegrate as flippantly as you do is 
 foolhardy, deceptive, distracting and even illogical, especially in 
 light of what has transpired in nearly inumerable instances and is no 
 doubt occurring somewhere, in some venue or another, several times over 
 as this is being typed. The same can also be said about those who openly 
 accept every claim as being irrefutable fact.
 
 While you may take the route of glib dismissal, I'd rather keep one eye 
 open and half a wit aware should ever a confirming slip of proof (paper 
 trail or other) be stumbled across, as all things are possible, 
 plausible, and all too often probable when dealing with the aberrance of 
 the human mind.
 
 Todd Swearingen
 
 
Todd, other than everything you wrote was irrelevant to my writing, I 
agree with you whole-heartedly. My comments were directed at fears of 
chemtrails , which I stand by as paranoia until I see a lot more 
proof.  Show me some evidence that the observed chemtrails are something 
other than the usual vapor trails emitted from jets.  Show me a rational 
as to why someone or some entity would be doing such a thing.  For 
profit? meanness? world domination?  I just do not see much motive, do you?

more below


Appal Energy wrote:
 


U., let's see Bob,

Paranoia is it?

You seem to forget at minimum thirty years of using thousand of US 
citizens as human guinea pigs for radioactive materials testing. That 
nasty little paranoid

Re: [Biofuel] Methanol handling tips needed

How about standard water heater elements?  You might be able to get
stainless steel ones for the higher quality tanks, or if not, the
cheap ones are only about $10, so replace them every 10 batches or
something.  I know, throwing away stuff is not what we are going for
here, but it's an idea to get it started till you can find something
better.

Zeke

On 9/21/05, Darryl West [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hi Guys,

 I am at the same point as you John trying to get a 5 Gallon processor going.
 I have found getting a submersible heating element a hassle.  Can anyone
 suggest a place to get an old (or maybe new) element as I have looked around
 and haven't come across anything!  (I am most likely looking in the wrong
 places)

 Cheers
 Darryl

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Keith Addison
 Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2005 11:33 PM
 To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Methanol handling tips needed

 Hello John

 Greetings,
 
 I'm finally finding the time to make a processor, but find myself
 hanging on a couple of points.  First off I'm just going with
 something that resembles the 5gal processor listed on JTF to start.
 The problem is that I'm not grasping the process in handling the
 methanol and lye properly.  The idea of forcing air into the methoxide
 tank thus forcing methoxide out other tube into processor makes sence.
  I just dont see where/how the methanol and lye are measured and
 placed into mixing container to begin with.

 Use translucent HDPE containers for mixing methanol and mark them at
 the required volume. Use the air pump to pump methanol out of the
 container it comes in into the mixing container to the required
 volume. Weight out the lye (or KOH), we measure it out into plastic
 bags on the scales (adjusted for the weight of the bag) so that
 there's minimal exposure to the air and moisture in the air. Then add
 it to the methanol mixing container. Opening the lid for this purpose
 won't expose you to fumes as the methanol is at room temperature and
 it's not being agitated. We use a funnel made from the top of a
 2-litre PET bottle (the kind you buy water in) to pour the KOH in
 from its plastic bag. Mix it this way: Methoxide the easy way
 http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_aleksnew.html#easymeth

 Then pump it into the processor with the air-pump.

 So, I'm looking for
 pointers on how others measure and handle these to get them into mix
 tank.  Additonally, I'm not sure what to use for heating element
 (electric at this point) so would appreciate any insight on this as
 well.

 With the 5-gal processor type you're more or less confined to
 electric heating, those cans don't last very long with an open flame
 under them. You can only use an open heat source for pre-heating the
 oil anyway - no more open flames as soon as there's any methanol
 involved. Maybe a heat exchanger would do, but that would probably be
 a bit of a hassle in only a 5-gal can. Get a submersion heating
 element, stainless steel, about 1.5 kw should do or maybe less. Try
 to get one that fits (unlike ours!).

 Best wishes

 Keith


 Thanks,
 John


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Re: [Biofuel] Bio dielsel processing

I know that blue sun biodiesel is building a large plant (probably
much much larger than this), but they might also be willing to design
a system this size, or give you an idea on who can help with this.

On 9/21/05, Ramon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


 I believe there are commercial plants you can purchase that will produce
 that volume (not sure though but I contacted Pacific Biodiesel in Hawaii a
 couple of years ago and they did send me some information about this
 http://www.biodiesel.com/ )

 Ramon



 On 9/21/05, David Lee [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 
 
 
 
  Hi,
 
I would like to know if there is anyone who can help me with information
 on a complete bio diesel processing plan capable of producing 1,000 gallons
 a day.   I intend to use thousand gallon stainless steel tanks.  I intend to
 take the first thousand gallon stainless steel tank, install some type of
 heating elements where I can then take the raw material (used cooking oil),
 heat it up and pump it through a filterisation system into a second thousand
 gallon stainless steel tank.   I will then take the proper amounts of
 methanol and powdered lye and blend this mixture back and forth from the
 second thousand gallon tank into a third thousand gallon tank.  Does this
 system sound practical?   If so, where can I learn more and possibly
 purchase the filterisation system, the pumping system, and the heating
 elements for my first thousand gallon tank or where I would be able to
 purchase such a tank?   I have studied a few formulas on the internet and I
 would like to know your opinion on the following one: {you take 800 gallons
 of already filtered used cooking oil, add 200 gallons of methanol and 40lbs.
 of industrial or technical grade lye, blend this for 24hrs, therefore
 producing a bio diesel that would pass the ASTM U.S fuel test} If this
 formula is not accurate, where can I obtain a more accurate one that would
 pass the ASTM test?
 
 
 
  Thank you very much for your time and your patience.  I look forward to
 your reply.
 
  Yours sincerely,
 
  David Lee
  
  Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! MSN Messenger Download today
 it's FREE!
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Re: [Biofuel] Methanol handling tips needed

I use a stainless steel element purchased at a local hardware store for under 
10 bucks. It is 
designed for a 240 volt system, but I run it at 110 thru a variac. It has 
worked flawlessly for over 
18 months, in weekly use.



Zeke Yewdall wrote:
 How about standard water heater elements?  You might be able to get
 stainless steel ones for the higher quality tanks, or if not, the
 cheap ones are only about $10, so replace them every 10 batches or
 something.  I know, throwing away stuff is not what we are going for
 here, but it's an idea to get it started till you can find something
 better.
 
 Zeke
 
 On 9/21/05, Darryl West [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
Hi Guys,

I am at the same point as you John trying to get a 5 Gallon processor going.
I have found getting a submersible heating element a hassle.  Can anyone
suggest a place to get an old (or maybe new) element as I have looked around
and haven't come across anything!  (I am most likely looking in the wrong
places)

Cheers
Darryl

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Keith Addison
Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2005 11:33 PM
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Methanol handling tips needed

Hello John


Greetings,

I'm finally finding the time to make a processor, but find myself
hanging on a couple of points.  First off I'm just going with
something that resembles the 5gal processor listed on JTF to start.
The problem is that I'm not grasping the process in handling the
methanol and lye properly.  The idea of forcing air into the methoxide
tank thus forcing methoxide out other tube into processor makes sence.
I just dont see where/how the methanol and lye are measured and
placed into mixing container to begin with.

Use translucent HDPE containers for mixing methanol and mark them at
the required volume. Use the air pump to pump methanol out of the
container it comes in into the mixing container to the required
volume. Weight out the lye (or KOH), we measure it out into plastic
bags on the scales (adjusted for the weight of the bag) so that
there's minimal exposure to the air and moisture in the air. Then add
it to the methanol mixing container. Opening the lid for this purpose
won't expose you to fumes as the methanol is at room temperature and
it's not being agitated. We use a funnel made from the top of a
2-litre PET bottle (the kind you buy water in) to pour the KOH in
from its plastic bag. Mix it this way: Methoxide the easy way
http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_aleksnew.html#easymeth

Then pump it into the processor with the air-pump.


So, I'm looking for
pointers on how others measure and handle these to get them into mix
tank.  Additonally, I'm not sure what to use for heating element
(electric at this point) so would appreciate any insight on this as
well.

With the 5-gal processor type you're more or less confined to
electric heating, those cans don't last very long with an open flame
under them. You can only use an open heat source for pre-heating the
oil anyway - no more open flames as soon as there's any methanol
involved. Maybe a heat exchanger would do, but that would probably be
a bit of a hassle in only a 5-gal can. Get a submersion heating
element, stainless steel, about 1.5 kw should do or maybe less. Try
to get one that fits (unlike ours!).

Best wishes

Keith



Thanks,
John


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-- 
Bob Allen
http://ozarker.org/bob

Science is what we have learned about how to keep
from fooling ourselves - Richard Feynman

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Re: [Biofuel] Does anyone distill ethanol here?

Aragorn wrote:

 Hello
  
 I an trying to find info on distilling fuel ethanol.

There's LOTS of that at the JTF site.


 It seems that this group is almost totally biodeisel.

Perhaps more VOCALLY biodiesel, but there may be other reasons for that.


 If no one distills ethanol here, then I am sorry for inconveviencing the 
 group with my posts.

Feel free to ask questions in this forum.  There are many people from 
all over the world who subscribe here, including folk from Brasil, 
where fuel ethanol has been available for many years, and New Zealand, 
where distillation enjoys no legal prohibition.

robert luis rabello
The Edge of Justice
Adventure for Your Mind
http://www.newadventure.ca

Ranger Supercharger Project Page
http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/



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Re: [Biofuel] seeding a forage pasture

Hallo Folks,

Wednesday, 21 September, 2005, 15:20:54, you wrote:
...snip...
KA Nope. No hits for ley apart from barley and stuff. I think I still
KA keep my boots.

KA Try a Google search for ley farming and see what you get. Here you go:

Try http://www.hotbot.com

or specifically

http://www.hotbot.com/default.asp?query=ley+farmingps=loc=searchbox 
tab=webprovKey=Google

for 14,600 results.  ;o)

Same thing Gustl, only it's at #3 and 4 instead of #1 and  2.

#1 is a subset, like I said, #2 doesn't deal with ley farming, just 
mentions it once, and you have to look really hard to find anything 
much beyiond that. Some discussion at SARE, not much besides.

Best wishes

Keith



Happy Happy,

Gustl
--
Je mehr wir haben, desto mehr fordert Gott von uns.

We can't change the winds but we can adjust our sails.

The safest road to Hell is the gradual one - the gentle slope,
soft underfoot, without sudden turnings, without milestones,
without signposts.
C. S. Lewis, The Screwtape Letters

Es gibt Wahrheiten, die so sehr auf der Straße liegen,
daß sie gerade deshalb von der gewöhnlichen Welt nicht
gesehen oder wenigstens nicht erkannt werden.

Those who dance are considered insane by those who can't
hear the music.
George Carlin

The best portion of a good man's life -
His little, nameless, unremembered acts of kindness and of love.
William Wordsworth


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Re: [Biofuel] global warming tipping point

Hi Terry

Hi Keith,

I must compliment you on the great effort you are giving the world to reduce
green house gases.

Thankyou. Actually we'd no intention of trying to have any direct 
effect on GHGs with Journey to Forever but it seems to have happened 
anyway.

The work you are doing should be highly praised.  Right now though there
seems to be a resistance to moving quicker; there doesn't seem to be a sense
of urgency considering that we are so close to the tipping point.  Maybe
some sort of legislation needs to be enacted such as restricting large
trucks from using regular deisel instead of bio deisel.

Biodiesel and biofuels are hardly even considered as energy issues in 
the US, they're still agriculture commodities, nice things for Big 
Soy and Big Corn and all the usual suspects.

A needed sense of urgency has been lacking for rather a long time. 
While Rome burnt. Well, at least Rome didn't emit fossil-fuel GHGs 
when it burnt.

I was serious though, the list could start an initiative here, 
members willing, but it'll have to be specific or nothing will happen.

Best wishes

Keith


Terry Dyck


 From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
 To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] global warming tipping point
 Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 22:55:54 +0900
 
 Hello Terry, tallex and all
 
   Hello,
   Why not discuss the story and implications right here.
   This list is full of individuals that can help make a difference.
 
 Can and have helped, are helping. Biofuel list members save lots of
 carbon. It's been said the list has helped save more carbon than most
 governments, or was it more than any government? Who knows.
 
 It's one of the things I like about the biofuels movement that nobody
 has any real idea how much biodiesel and ethanol and heating oil and
 stuff people are making or re-using or whatever or how much fossil
 fuel they're not using, but it's easy to figure that it's in the
 millions of gallons a year and up in the US alone, and it's worldwide.
 
 Anyway, I think the carbon saved is not just by making and using
 biofuels, people take it in all kinds of directions with their own
 projects and campaigns. I keep hearing of spin-offs I had no idea
 existed, there must be many more of them.
 
  I am one of those individuals that would like to make a difference.  Were
 is
  the starting gate?  Lets get started.
 
 Well I think we did get started already, long ago some of us. What
 would you or anyone suggest we should do that we're not doing already?
 
 If other members could say what they're doing and how they see it
 that might be a start, and it would encourage others to do the same.
 
 Best wishes
 
 Keith
 
 
  
  Terry Dyck
   Believe me the well financed global warming skeptics and traditional
 fossil
   fuel suppliers
   won't win in the long run if we face them head on.
   We will be confronting serious problems in the near future from our
 past
   energy gluttony
   and disregard for the earth's natural ecosystems. We got ourselves into
   this mess
   and we are going to have to find sustainable solutions to develop a
 viable
   future for the planet.
   
   
   regards
   tallex
   
  ---Original Message---
  From: Kirk McLoren [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Subject: [Biofuel] global warming tipping point
  Sent: 17 Sep '05 19:44

  [0]mad_goldfish writes The UK's Independent is running a front
 page
  story today on a scientific report claiming that [1]global warming
 is
   now
  unstoppable, after measuring changes in the level of ice in the
   arctic.
  From the article: The greatest fear is that the Arctic has reached
 a
  'tipping point' beyond which nothing can reverse the continual loss
 of
  sea ice and with it the massive land glaciers of Greenland, which
 will
  raise sea levels dramatically. Satellites monitoring the Arctic
 have
  found that the extent of the sea ice this August has reached its
 lowest
  monthly point on record, dipping an unprecedented 18.2 per cent
 below
   the
  long-term average. Either way, [2]someone wins a bet.

  Discuss this story at:
  http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=05/09/16/1514216

  Links:
  0. mailto:craig...nicol@@@gmail...com
  1.

  
  http://news.independent.co.uk/world/science_technology/article312997.ece
  2.
 http://science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/08/20/1845247tid=126
 


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Re: [Biofuel] turbocharged vs supercharged diesels

Zeke Yewdall wrote:


 This was in another thread going off another direction.  But my
 question is, why not supercharge a diesel engine. 

There's no reason NOT to supercharge a diesel engine.  The guy who 
wrote that comment either isn't expressing himself very well, or has 
no understanding of forced induction.  Given the rest of the content, 
I suspect it might be the latter . . .

 There must be some
 reason, because you don't seem them too often (we have a supercharged
 2 cycle 2 cylinder direction injection diesel engine in a 1953
 bulldozer, but aside from that I haven't seen one).  Is it just that
 it is higher efficiency to use the heat of exhaust gases that would be
 wasted anyway, vs taking HP off the crankshaft to run a compressor? 

Primarily.  I think the blower in that diesel is used for exhaust 
scavenging, is it not?

 But there is a big advantage in materials to a supercharger in that it
 doesn't have to withstand the heat of the exhaust and go through
 cooldown after working hard to avoid seizing the bearings, and I would
 think engine manufacturers would sieze on any cheaper way to get more
 power out of a diesel (since everyone in the US thinks they are
 slow...).

The lovely, twin helical coils of my blower represent highly precise 
machining, so I don't think the problem to which you refer necessarily 
boils down to materials or manufacturing.  Boost in a blower is 
limited by pulley size, and my Eaton is about 60% efficient.  The rest 
of the compression energy winds up as heat, making the outlet pipe too 
hot to touch when the engine is warm.  Boost in a turbo is controlled 
by a boost controller, which, in some cases, can be adjusted.  Perhaps 
it's a matter of boost pressure for the size of the application, 
coupled with increased efficiency that drives the industry toward turbos.

Forced induction is much more difficult with a computer controlled 
gasoline engine than a diesel, since the gas engine has to operate at 
or near stoichometric air / fuel ratios.  I have a LOT of experience 
with this now!


 I have no problem with turbodiesels, just wondering why that design
 won out over supercharging.

Many of the factory superchargers from the Eaton company, like the M 
90 I've installed on my truck, suffered bearing failure over time. 
They've since gone to a pair of bearings in the nose cone to deal with 
lateral forces brought on by engine torque.  A well designed turbo 
should last the life of the engine.  Because of the torque forces at 
play, I don't think the same can be said for a supercharger.


robert luis rabello
The Edge of Justice
Adventure for Your Mind
http://www.newadventure.ca

Ranger Supercharger Project Page
http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/



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Re: [Biofuel] Bio dielsel processing

I know that blue sun biodiesel is building a large plant (probably
much much larger than this), but they might also be willing to design
a system this size, or give you an idea on who can help with this.

Unlikely, it's an awkward size. Try these:

Biofuel Systems provides state-of-the-art biodiesel process equipment 
which meets all recognised international safety standards (eg. ATEX) 
and will produce biodiesel from a range of feedstocks to meet 
recognised standards, including ASTM 6751-03, EN 14214:2003, DIN V 
51606. Currently offers systems from 900 litres per week upwards. 
Available in Australasia through New Zealand Biofuels Limited, and in 
the rest of world direct from Biofuel Systems, 58 Church Street, 
Ormskirk, Lancashire, ENGLAND L39 3AW. Fax: +44 1695 571222 e-mail: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://biofuelsystems.com

Ageratec Sweden makes automated biodiesel processors using sequence 
controllers, ranging from 800 to 8,000 liters capacity. E-mail: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.carryon.se/index.asp?lang=EN

Or this, from Todd, very scaleable:

http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_processor9.html
833 Gallon Batch Plant

  I have studied a few formulas on the internet and I
  would like to know your opinion on the following one: {you take 800 gallons
  of already filtered used cooking oil, add 200 gallons of methanol 
and 40lbs.
  of industrial or technical grade lye, blend this for 24hrs, therefore
  producing a bio diesel that would pass the ASTM U.S fuel test} If this
  formula is not accurate, where can I obtain a more accurate one that would
  pass the ASTM test?

Um, you have to titrate it, you can't just dump in a set amount of 
catalyst. That works out to 6 gm per litre, which some people claim 
is an average amount, but you don't want the average amount, you 
want the correct amount to deal with the level of FFA in that 
particular batch of oil.

As for blending it for 24 hours, that depends on what kind of 
agitation you're using. 24 hours is a very long processing time. You 
say nothing about the temperature. I think that's a rather useless 
formula.

Start here:
Where do I start?
http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html#start

Keep going.

Best wishes

Keith



On 9/21/05, Ramon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 
  I believe there are commercial plants you can purchase that will produce
  that volume (not sure though but I contacted Pacific Biodiesel in Hawaii a
  couple of years ago and they did send me some information about this
  http://www.biodiesel.com/ )
 
  Ramon
 
 
 
  On 9/21/05, David Lee [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  
  
  
  
  
   Hi,
  
 I would like to know if there is anyone who can help me with 
information
  on a complete bio diesel processing plan capable of producing 1,000 gallons
  a day.   I intend to use thousand gallon stainless steel tanks. 
I intend to
  take the first thousand gallon stainless steel tank, install some type of
  heating elements where I can then take the raw material (used cooking oil),
  heat it up and pump it through a filterisation system into a 
second thousand
  gallon stainless steel tank.   I will then take the proper amounts of
  methanol and powdered lye and blend this mixture back and forth from the
  second thousand gallon tank into a third thousand gallon tank.  Does this
  system sound practical?   If so, where can I learn more and possibly
  purchase the filterisation system, the pumping system, and the heating
  elements for my first thousand gallon tank or where I would be able to
  purchase such a tank?   I have studied a few formulas on the internet and I
  would like to know your opinion on the following one: {you take 800 gallons
  of already filtered used cooking oil, add 200 gallons of methanol 
and 40lbs.
  of industrial or technical grade lye, blend this for 24hrs, therefore
  producing a bio diesel that would pass the ASTM U.S fuel test} If this
  formula is not accurate, where can I obtain a more accurate one that would
  pass the ASTM test?
  
  
  
   Thank you very much for your time and your patience.  I look forward to
  your reply.
  
   Yours sincerely,
  
   David Lee


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Re: [Biofuel] Shooting Down the Breeze

2005-09-21 Thread Hakan Falk


Only Denmark was mentioned as having proportionally
around 20 times larger electricity production than US.
Countries like Germany, The Netherlands, Spain, Sweden
and a few others, also have 15 to 20 times larger proportional
production from wind than US.

Combine this with the situation on proportion of diesel
vehicles for personal transportation, with Europe using
around 10 to 15 times more and with a base energy saving
of around 30%, it looks grim for US.

There are a lot of talk about energy saving in US, but the
only quick response that US would be able to use in a
rapid energy crises, will literally to start walk instead of
talk. LOL

Hakan


At 14:52 07/09/2005, you wrote:
http://www.inthesetimes.com/site/main/article/2302/
-- In These Times
Features  September 2, 2005

Shooting Down the Breeze

The promise of wind power has been impeded by species-protection
scandals and a lack of public trust

By Mischa Gaus

Faced with news that its wind turbines were killing thousands of bats
at two wind farms on Appalachian mountain ridgelines, the nation's
largest wind power company reacted quickly.

The company, FPL Energy, barred scientists from pursuing follow-up
work, pulled their $75,000 contribution from the research cooperative
studying bat mortality and ended the doctoral work of a graduate
student who had produced two years of data showing unusually high
rates of bat death at the sites.

The move stunned bat biologists and conservationists who had joined a
cooperative scientific effort with the company. Known as the Bat and
Wind Energy Cooperative, it is made up of industry members,
government agencies and bat researchers. The group released a
peer-reviewed study in June that estimated up to 2,900 bats died last
fall at the farms in West Virginia and Pennsylvania.

The company's decision rejected the study's favored recommendation,
which proposed shutting down selected turbines briefly at the sites
to see if stationary blades would reduce bat fatalities.

This is an argument on economics, says Ed Arnett, a conservation
scientist who directed the cooperative's work, because halting some
turbines for the bat study would marginally affect power production.

But the company may be even more concerned with the precedent the
recommendation sets: If stopping blades during certain weather
conditions and times of day dramatically cuts bat death, wind power
companies could be forced to implement similar restrictions on other
turbines in the region. About 700 turbines have been approved or
proposed to be built in the mid-Atlantic.

FPL Energy spokesman Steve Stengel disputes that the company is
stymieing research, noting that its contribution hinged on the type
of research conducted, and that scientists were only offered access
to the company's property to pursue the approaches it supported. But
bat biologists within and outside the research cooperative disparage
the company's solution-acoustic deterrents to drive bats away-saying
that it's unproven and potentially counterproductive.

My judgment is that they really don't want to know the answer, says
Tom Kunz, a bat biologist at Boston University who sits on the
cooperative's scientific advisory panel.

The controversy casts doubt on how wind power, championed as the
greenest of renewable energy sources, will overcome a lack of public
trust as it rapidly expands.

Puny, but promising

The environmental credentials of wind power are remarkable. Besides
producing no air pollution or carbon dioxide, wind power does not
clear forests, flood canyons, poison soil, or leave behind permanent
or toxic waste.

If we want to be around as long as other civilizations have lasted,
we need to think ahead 1,000 years, says James Manwell, director of
the University of Massachusetts at Amherst's Renewable Energy
Research Laboratory. And you can't do it with coal, oil or nuclear.

Currently, wind power is tiny in the United States, responsible for
less than 1 percent of energy production. The nation has about 16,000
wind turbines producing enough electricity for 1.6 million
households, according the American Wind Energy Association.

Since the days of homemade, backyard windmills, the technology of
wind energy has advanced dramatically, with efficiency improving
about 5 percent every year. New turbines can rise as tall as a
40-story building, produce power at wind speeds around 13 mph and
generate as much as 4.5 megawatts of electricity-enough for 1,200
households.

Federal support for the industry is still dwarfed by the $18.4
billion in subsidies that the nonpartisan group Taxpayers for Common
Sense estimates the coal, oil, gas and nuclear power industries will
receive in the recently-signed energy bill. But thanks in part to a
federal tax credit extended two more years by the energy bill, the
industry is growing tremendously, by as much as a third this year
alone. Some estimates predict it will produce 6 percent of the
country's power by 2020. The technology is

[Biofuel] 'Baffled' peace activist gets $11,700 bill

2005-09-21 Thread Kirk McLoren

http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/baffled-peace-activist-gets-11700-bill/2005/09/16/1126750099540.html


"In the talks I gave I wasn't even openly critical of Australia," Parkin said.
"I was being openly critical of the US occupation (of Iraq) and I was being openly critical of Halliburton."
		Yahoo! for Good 
Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. 
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Re: [Biofuel] Filtering?

2005-09-21 Thread Ian Theresa Sims




Hi Sami
You can by Fat Filters used in the restaurant 
trade. they are like coffee filters but bigger. Heat your oil to 35-40C and it 
will flow easily.
Cheers

Ian

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Sami Vastela 
  To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org 
  
  Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 6:26 
  AM
  Subject: [Biofuel] Filtering?
  
  Hello
  
  First test patches burned well in my central 
  heating boiler :-)
  
  How important is filtering before prosessing, and 
  what kind of filters you are using? 2 litres test patch went through coffee 
  filter, but it's quite slow. So I'm intereste how to filter 80 litres of 
  WVO?
  
  Sami
  
  

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Re: [Biofuel] global warming tipping point