Re: [svg-developers] Plugin opensource
Hi, I'm developing software SVGFlash (*alpha*), it is similiar Macromedia Flash 4. So I don't have time for develop a player or plugin excelente like flash player or flash plugin (IE and FF). I create my project using JAVA, cross plataform and the objective is animation, because exists very aplication for SVG static. thank's Ronan Oger escreveu: On Tuesday 31 January 2006 21:53, Phi Tran wrote: 1- There no server-side XMLHTTP needed. It is 100% Client process. (All it need is an SVG file form the server.). . Right, as long as you are only interested in static content, that is a fine usage. For images, for example. 2- It is not 100% SVG1-2 but it support all graphic and cascade style. Right. This certainly has a place for static content. 3- Me My staff want a web-base simple SVG editor that we can work anywhere (for ourself). Accessible to anyone of us. Right. I can certainly see the advantage of this. 4- I like one that can play SVG on 99.9% of the webserver population. Easy for Web develpoer do do one WEB-page that it display the same no matter what browser it is IE 4-5-6-7?? FF 1 -1.2 -1.5 Opera ? AOL ? NS ?? I dont know what you mean by webserver population. You can process SVG with batik on 100% of webservers (well, win32, unix, linux, mac... at least). Is that what you mean? XML-raster on the server, then send it to the client? 5- Timing? It slower because it is interpreted Vs compiled. Depend on how much how big one change it may or may not fit for GAME/animation purpose. But it may fit on other purpose such as map dynamic image generator such as a web-base image drawing. Right. Could be good, especially for clients that cant support static SVG. Are many of these? Have you come accross DENG, the svg viewer written in flash? Also, why not use flash to generate SVG drawings (blasphemy, but fairly easy, I would guess). 6- We are not just starting it. but it has been worked for long. Interesting. Any way to take a look at it? Do you have an online version that is accessible? Ronan On 1/31/06, Ronan Oger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Phi, Your idea of a web-enabled SVg renderer is great and I support the concept if y. Is that an SVG-1.2-full renderer? I am interested to see how you will support things like SMIL events and xmlhttprequest-driven serverside-driven updates. If you manage this, I will be very happy. Even if you only support SVGT, that would already be excellent. However, I have some issues with your point of view: 1. Why do you say adobe has abandoned SVG? Have Adobe pulled ASV and forbidden you from using it? As far as I an tell, this has not happened. Adobe may have decided to stop developing ASV as a product, but so what? That's their own loss. There are other SVG viewer implementations out there, and at least one on the very near horizon. 2. There is already an SVG viewer solution for every platform: Batik. And for each major platform, there is at least one SVG implementation. If you mean cross-browser SVG support, I do not think you can expect much joy. After all, it is a bit much to ask modern developers to continue to support IE6 forever. After all, IE6 is really starting to show its age and is totally out of date. Microsoft can refuse to update their browser, but they do so at their own risk. And while rumours of a pending IE7 abound, I'm not holding my breath for this to be usable on current hardware. I'll be pleasantly surprised to hear of IE7 running on WindowsXP on a 2004-2006 PC or laptop. 3. There is a lot more to SVG than rendering the pixels. time management, transparency management, and event handling are fairly complex things that will be difficult to mimick in dhtml and javascript alone. Of course, you *could* generate pixel maps of an SVG drawing, but doing so is pointless. Exactly what SVG is good at, pixel maps suck at... distinct object context handling. 4. Does your cross.browser free SVG editor work on Konqueror? Can you show a link? Is it better than Batik-based SVG editors? 5. I do not understand why people starved for an SVG plugin to IE6 do not simply compile a Batik applet to handle their SVG. Shouldnt that work? Sure, it would be fat... But it would work. and bandwidth is pretty good these days. For web2.0 apps, this solution should suffice. 6. I am not sure what you mean by dealing with black boxes. The source code for every SVG implementation in the wild except ASV and CSV is freely available. All you need to do is read it. Ronan On Tuesday 31 January 2006 20:53, Phi Tran wrote: But as you know ADOBE is abandoned SVG viewer. And 1- It is not CROSS-BROWSER such as IE 2- I don't like to deal with black box. I want to allow the Web author more flexibility such as to know that color a point is; or he/she what to just move/change one item/element . . . 3- It just a sub product of my Cross-platform/
RE: [svg-developers] Plugin opensource
I fail to understand why you would want to build a plugin from scratch for SVG when instead you could contribute to Mozilla's SVG team, or Konqueror's SVG team, which are open source, and help those implementation get better. does FF1.5/Mozilla/Konqueror implementation allows to draw SVG on a transparent background to overlap an existing zone, for exemple to draw a route on a map, as do Google on Gmap with MS private vector language? Pierre. - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [svg-developers] Plugin opensource
On 2/1/06, Bru, Pierre [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I fail to understand why you would want to build a plugin from scratch for SVG when instead you could contribute to Mozilla's SVG team, or Konqueror's SVG team, which are open source, and help those implementation get better. does FF1.5/Mozilla/Konqueror implementation allows to draw SVG on a transparent background to overlap an existing zone, for exemple to draw a route on a map, as do Google on Gmap with MS private vector language? Pierre. Sure 100% If your SVG does not have an background then ts just draw lines or the box etc . . .on a transparent background. The foreground can also be semi- transparent (if your SVG say so). For none-IE: All it does is render thee svg to an in-memory Png file. That you can put on your img.src. Of couse you can tell it to create for you a blank Png file then populate it with any color you want each has its own transparancy. For IE: Then you have two choices. - You can export the png to round trip sever/echo or save it to your local file (intra-net) then assign it to your img.src. For better transparency on the PNG you should use MS IMAGELOAD FILTER instead of img.src OR: - You can have multiple in memory color XBM files to usually 8 then you can put it into your img(s).src. Actually it come along with its own client side javascript graphic library allowing you to build the bitmap files on the fly (at client site) in three formats PNG, BMP, XBM - We use MS filter to have the monochrome XBM displayed in color and/or color affect. Thanks. Phi - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [svg-developers] Plugin opensource
On Wednesday 01 February 2006 12:59, Bru, Pierre wrote: I fail to understand why you would want to build a plugin from scratch for SVG when instead you could contribute to Mozilla's SVG team, or Konqueror's SVG team, which are open source, and help those implementation get better. does FF1.5/Mozilla/Konqueror implementation allows to draw SVG on a transparent background to overlap an existing zone, for exemple to draw a route on a map, as do Google on Gmap with MS private vector language? Pierre. I believe so. I asked this question last month to this list, and got a positive answer. Anyways, one thing is certain: what Google Maps does with VML and transparent images on top of a tiled set of raster images,people routinely do with SVG in the webmapping context. Check carto.net for numerous examples of this... Anyways, here is a trivial example of dynamic overlays over maps (clunky and rough, but I hope you get the point that this already can be done... All the data points are delivered real-time from an external server. http://www.roitsystems.com/SVG-Widgets/navigation/ShipAutomation.svg It's kind of clunky, and the underlying image is statically located, but that is simply because I spent 3 days on this demo... And it works on any implementation that supports script access to the DOM or to the uDOM, and xmlhttprequest or GetURL. The key point I am attempting to make is that the community would be better served by interested developers supporting and extending existing SVG implementations rather than by going out on and starting Yet Another Implementation... Ask any SVG browser developer, and you will get the same answer: it's not that simple. The trivial stuff like static SVG is fine, but that's not enough, and is not SVG1.2 or SVGT1.2 compliant, so static implementations are really of no interest to anyone. And anyways, there are too many static SVG implementations to list. It took Mozilla 3 years toget to where they are today, and anyone who thinks they can do better from scratch is kidding themeselves. There are plenty of existing solutions out there... let's help the developers working on those implementations rather than making their task even harder by competing against them. Finally, if you want a feature you can't find in your favorite opensource SVG implementation, why not request a feature and get some people together to fund the work? A little financial sponsorship goes a long way in open source... Ronan -- Ronan Oger Director RO IT Systems GmbH ...Building Web2.0 with SVG since 2001 http://www.roitsystems.com - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [svg-developers] Plugin opensource
FYI. Yes. and No. Yes there are some models floating on the NET. 1- Server side java base SVG - Png (from SUN and GOOLE). (You can obtain source ??). 2- Java base Applet that can render SVG image. (Not very impressive) 3- Similar to FishEye Menu (on the net). Requiring client/server round trip? 4- I have first hand knowedge of a Client side Javascript SVG render It look sleek. Hoppfully it will be available in a few week. On 1/31/06, Pedro Henrique de Lira [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, There are some plugin opensource that reinderized svg images in the browser IE and FF that get all funcionalities in the especification 1.1 disponibilized for the W3cotherwise we can start this ideia/solution ??? I know that the FF 1.5 had the svg *INTERNAL* but not have all funcionalities and not is good to depend the plugin of the adobe wich was been abandoned. thank's - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [svg-developers] Plugin opensource
OK, but we need a plugin similar to flash plugin, with all functions of the specificaition 1.1 W3C. Don't you think ? []s Phi Tran escreveu: FYI. Yes. and No. Yes there are some models floating on the NET. 1- Server side java base SVG - Png (from SUN and GOOLE). (You can obtain source ??). 2- Java base Applet that can render SVG image. (Not very impressive) 3- Similar to FishEye Menu (on the net). Requiring client/server round trip? 4- I have first hand knowedge of a Client side Javascript SVG render It look sleek. Hoppfully it will be available in a few week. On 1/31/06, Pedro Henrique de Lira [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, There are some plugin opensource that reinderized svg images in the browser IE and FF that get all funcionalities in the especification 1.1 disponibilized for the W3cotherwise we can start this ideia/solution ??? I know that the FF 1.5 had the svg *INTERNAL* but not have all funcionalities and not is good to depend the plugin of the adobe wich was been abandoned. thank's - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [svg-developers] Plugin opensource
OK, but we need a plugin similar to flash plugin, with all functions of the specificaition 1.1 W3C. Don't you think ? []s Phi Tran escreveu: FYI. Yes. and No. Yes there are some models floating on the NET. 1- Server side java base SVG - Png (from SUN and GOOLE). (You can obtain source ??). 2- Java base Applet that can render SVG image. (Not very impressive) 3- Similar to FishEye Menu (on the net). Requiring client/server round trip? 4- I have first hand knowedge of a Client side Javascript SVG render It look sleek. Hoppfully it will be available in a few week. On 1/31/06, Pedro Henrique de Lira [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, There are some plugin opensource that reinderized svg images in the browser IE and FF that get all funcionalities in the especification 1.1 disponibilized for the W3cotherwise we can start this ideia/solution ??? I know that the FF 1.5 had the svg *INTERNAL* but not have all funcionalities and not is good to depend the plugin of the adobe wich was been abandoned. thank's - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [svg-developers] Plugin opensource
I fail to understand why you would want to build a plugin from scratch for SVG when instead you could contribute to Mozilla's SVG team, or Konqueror's SVG team, which are open source, and help those implementation get better. I'd suggest you contribute to an existing SVG browser implementation. Ronan On Tuesday 31 January 2006 19:17, Pedro Henrique de Lira wrote: OK, but we need a plugin similar to flash plugin, with all functions of the specificaition 1.1 W3C. Don't you think ? []s Phi Tran escreveu: FYI. Yes. and No. Yes there are some models floating on the NET. 1- Server side java base SVG - Png (from SUN and GOOLE). (You can obtain source ??). 2- Java base Applet that can render SVG image. (Not very impressive) 3- Similar to FishEye Menu (on the net). Requiring client/server round trip? 4- I have first hand knowedge of a Client side Javascript SVG render It look sleek. Hoppfully it will be available in a few week. On 1/31/06, Pedro Henrique de Lira [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, There are some plugin opensource that reinderized svg images in the browser IE and FF that get all funcionalities in the especification 1.1 disponibilized for the W3cotherwise we can start this ideia/solution ??? I know that the FF 1.5 had the svg *INTERNAL* but not have all funcionalities and not is good to depend the plugin of the adobe wich was been abandoned. thank's - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links -- Ronan Oger Director RO IT Systems GmbH ...Building Web2.0 with SVG since 2001 http://www.roitsystems.com - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [svg-developers] Plugin opensource
On 1/31/06, Pedro Henrique de Lira [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: OK, but we need a plugin similar to flash plugin, with all functions of the specificaition 1.1 W3C. Don't you think ? No. It is not a PLUG IN. It is as set of *.JS files that you put into your application like: SCRIPT language='javascript' src=file1.js /SCRIPT SCRIPT language='javascript' src=file2.js /SCRIPT so on . . It works on FF v1+, IE 4+ ; opera . As long as it is a graphical browsers. []s Phi Tran escreveu: FYI. Yes. and No. Yes there are some models floating on the NET. 1- Server side java base SVG - Png (from SUN and GOOLE). (You can obtain source ??). 2- Java base Applet that can render SVG image. (Not very impressive) 3- Similar to FishEye Menu (on the net). Requiring client/server round trip? 4- I have first hand knowedge of a Client side Javascript SVG render It look sleek. Hoppfully it will be available in a few week. On 1/31/06, Pedro Henrique de Lira [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, There are some plugin opensource that reinderized svg images in the browser IE and FF that get all funcionalities in the especification 1.1 disponibilized for the W3cotherwise we can start this ideia/solution ??? I know that the FF 1.5 had the svg *INTERNAL* but not have all funcionalities and not is good to depend the plugin of the adobe wich was been abandoned. thank's - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [svg-developers] Plugin opensource
But as you know ADOBE is abandoned SVG viewer. And 1- It is not CROSS-BROWSER such as IE 2- I don't like to deal with black box. I want to allow the Web author more flexibility such as to know that color a point is; or he/she what to just move/change one item/element . . . 3- It just a sub product of my Cross-platform/ Cross-browser web-base, Free SVG editor. Hope You may Understand. Phi On 1/31/06, Ronan Oger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I fail to understand why you would want to build a plugin from scratch for SVG when instead you could contribute to Mozilla's SVG team, or Konqueror's SVG team, which are open source, and help those implementation get better. I'd suggest you contribute to an existing SVG browser implementation. Ronan On Tuesday 31 January 2006 19:17, Pedro Henrique de Lira wrote: OK, but we need a plugin similar to flash plugin, with all functions of the specificaition 1.1 W3C. Don't you think ? []s Phi Tran escreveu: FYI. Yes. and No. Yes there are some models floating on the NET. 1- Server side java base SVG - Png (from SUN and GOOLE). (You can obtain source ??). 2- Java base Applet that can render SVG image. (Not very impressive) 3- Similar to FishEye Menu (on the net). Requiring client/server round trip? 4- I have first hand knowedge of a Client side Javascript SVG render It look sleek. Hoppfully it will be available in a few week. On 1/31/06, Pedro Henrique de Lira [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, There are some plugin opensource that reinderized svg images in the browser IE and FF that get all funcionalities in the especification 1.1 disponibilized for the W3cotherwise we can start this ideia/solution ??? I know that the FF 1.5 had the svg *INTERNAL* but not have all funcionalities and not is good to depend the plugin of the adobe wich was been abandoned. thank's - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links -- Ronan Oger Director RO IT Systems GmbH ...Building Web2.0 with SVG since 2001 http://www.roitsystems.com - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [svg-developers] Plugin opensource
Hi Phi, Your idea of a web-enabled SVg renderer is great and I support the concept if y. Is that an SVG-1.2-full renderer? I am interested to see how you will support things like SMIL events and xmlhttprequest-driven serverside-driven updates. If you manage this, I will be very happy. Even if you only support SVGT, that would already be excellent. However, I have some issues with your point of view: 1. Why do you say adobe has abandoned SVG? Have Adobe pulled ASV and forbidden you from using it? As far as I an tell, this has not happened. Adobe may have decided to stop developing ASV as a product, but so what? That's their own loss. There are other SVG viewer implementations out there, and at least one on the very near horizon. 2. There is already an SVG viewer solution for every platform: Batik. And for each major platform, there is at least one SVG implementation. If you mean cross-browser SVG support, I do not think you can expect much joy. After all, it is a bit much to ask modern developers to continue to support IE6 forever. After all, IE6 is really starting to show its age and is totally out of date. Microsoft can refuse to update their browser, but they do so at their own risk. And while rumours of a pending IE7 abound, I'm not holding my breath for this to be usable on current hardware. I'll be pleasantly surprised to hear of IE7 running on WindowsXP on a 2004-2006 PC or laptop. 3. There is a lot more to SVG than rendering the pixels. time management, transparency management, and event handling are fairly complex things that will be difficult to mimick in dhtml and javascript alone. Of course, you *could* generate pixel maps of an SVG drawing, but doing so is pointless. Exactly what SVG is good at, pixel maps suck at... distinct object context handling. 4. Does your cross.browser free SVG editor work on Konqueror? Can you show a link? Is it better than Batik-based SVG editors? 5. I do not understand why people starved for an SVG plugin to IE6 do not simply compile a Batik applet to handle their SVG. Shouldnt that work? Sure, it would be fat... But it would work. and bandwidth is pretty good these days. For web2.0 apps, this solution should suffice. 6. I am not sure what you mean by dealing with black boxes. The source code for every SVG implementation in the wild except ASV and CSV is freely available. All you need to do is read it. Ronan On Tuesday 31 January 2006 20:53, Phi Tran wrote: But as you know ADOBE is abandoned SVG viewer. And 1- It is not CROSS-BROWSER such as IE 2- I don't like to deal with black box. I want to allow the Web author more flexibility such as to know that color a point is; or he/she what to just move/change one item/element . . . 3- It just a sub product of my Cross-platform/ Cross-browser web-base, Free SVG editor. Hope You may Understand. Phi On 1/31/06, Ronan Oger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I fail to understand why you would want to build a plugin from scratch for SVG when instead you could contribute to Mozilla's SVG team, or Konqueror's SVG team, which are open source, and help those implementation get better. I'd suggest you contribute to an existing SVG browser implementation. Ronan On Tuesday 31 January 2006 19:17, Pedro Henrique de Lira wrote: OK, but we need a plugin similar to flash plugin, with all functions of the specificaition 1.1 W3C. Don't you think ? []s Phi Tran escreveu: FYI. Yes. and No. Yes there are some models floating on the NET. 1- Server side java base SVG - Png (from SUN and GOOLE). (You can obtain source ??). 2- Java base Applet that can render SVG image. (Not very impressive) 3- Similar to FishEye Menu (on the net). Requiring client/server round trip? 4- I have first hand knowedge of a Client side Javascript SVG render It look sleek. Hoppfully it will be available in a few week. On 1/31/06, Pedro Henrique de Lira [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, There are some plugin opensource that reinderized svg images in the browser IE and FF that get all funcionalities in the especification 1.1 disponibilized for the W3cotherwise we can start this ideia/solution ??? I know that the FF 1.5 had the svg *INTERNAL* but not have all funcionalities and not is good to depend the plugin of the adobe wich was been abandoned. thank's - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [svg-developers] Plugin opensource
1- There no server-side XMLHTTP needed. It is 100% Client process. (All it need is an SVG file form the server.). . 2- It is not 100% SVG1-2 but it support all graphic and cascade style. 3- Me My staff want a web-base simple SVG editor that we can work anywhere (for ourself). Accessible to anyone of us. 4- I like one that can play SVG on 99.9% of the webserver population. Easy for Web develpoer do do one WEB-page that it display the same no matter what browser it is IE 4-5-6-7?? FF 1 -1.2 -1.5 Opera ? AOL ? NS ?? 5- Timing? It slower because it is interpreted Vs compiled. Depend on how much how big one change it may or may not fit for GAME/animation purpose. But it may fit on other purpose such as map dynamic image generator such as a web-base image drawing. 6- We are not just starting it. but it has been worked for long. On 1/31/06, Ronan Oger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Phi, Your idea of a web-enabled SVg renderer is great and I support the concept if y. Is that an SVG-1.2-full renderer? I am interested to see how you will support things like SMIL events and xmlhttprequest-driven serverside-driven updates. If you manage this, I will be very happy. Even if you only support SVGT, that would already be excellent. However, I have some issues with your point of view: 1. Why do you say adobe has abandoned SVG? Have Adobe pulled ASV and forbidden you from using it? As far as I an tell, this has not happened. Adobe may have decided to stop developing ASV as a product, but so what? That's their own loss. There are other SVG viewer implementations out there, and at least one on the very near horizon. 2. There is already an SVG viewer solution for every platform: Batik. And for each major platform, there is at least one SVG implementation. If you mean cross-browser SVG support, I do not think you can expect much joy. After all, it is a bit much to ask modern developers to continue to support IE6 forever. After all, IE6 is really starting to show its age and is totally out of date. Microsoft can refuse to update their browser, but they do so at their own risk. And while rumours of a pending IE7 abound, I'm not holding my breath for this to be usable on current hardware. I'll be pleasantly surprised to hear of IE7 running on WindowsXP on a 2004-2006 PC or laptop. 3. There is a lot more to SVG than rendering the pixels. time management, transparency management, and event handling are fairly complex things that will be difficult to mimick in dhtml and javascript alone. Of course, you *could* generate pixel maps of an SVG drawing, but doing so is pointless. Exactly what SVG is good at, pixel maps suck at... distinct object context handling. 4. Does your cross.browser free SVG editor work on Konqueror? Can you show a link? Is it better than Batik-based SVG editors? 5. I do not understand why people starved for an SVG plugin to IE6 do not simply compile a Batik applet to handle their SVG. Shouldnt that work? Sure, it would be fat... But it would work. and bandwidth is pretty good these days. For web2.0 apps, this solution should suffice. 6. I am not sure what you mean by dealing with black boxes. The source code for every SVG implementation in the wild except ASV and CSV is freely available. All you need to do is read it. Ronan On Tuesday 31 January 2006 20:53, Phi Tran wrote: But as you know ADOBE is abandoned SVG viewer. And 1- It is not CROSS-BROWSER such as IE 2- I don't like to deal with black box. I want to allow the Web author more flexibility such as to know that color a point is; or he/she what to just move/change one item/element . . . 3- It just a sub product of my Cross-platform/ Cross-browser web-base, Free SVG editor. Hope You may Understand. Phi On 1/31/06, Ronan Oger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I fail to understand why you would want to build a plugin from scratch for SVG when instead you could contribute to Mozilla's SVG team, or Konqueror's SVG team, which are open source, and help those implementation get better. I'd suggest you contribute to an existing SVG browser implementation. Ronan On Tuesday 31 January 2006 19:17, Pedro Henrique de Lira wrote: OK, but we need a plugin similar to flash plugin, with all functions of the specificaition 1.1 W3C. Don't you think ? []s Phi Tran escreveu: FYI. Yes. and No. Yes there are some models floating on the NET. 1- Server side java base SVG - Png (from SUN and GOOLE). (You can obtain source ??). 2- Java base Applet that can render SVG image. (Not very impressive) 3- Similar to FishEye Menu (on the net). Requiring client/server round trip? 4- I have first hand knowedge of a Client side Javascript SVG render It look sleek. Hoppfully it will be available in a few week. On 1/31/06, Pedro Henrique de Lira [EMAIL
Re: [svg-developers] Plugin opensource
On Tuesday 31 January 2006 21:53, Phi Tran wrote: 1- There no server-side XMLHTTP needed. It is 100% Client process. (All it need is an SVG file form the server.). . Right, as long as you are only interested in static content, that is a fine usage. For images, for example. 2- It is not 100% SVG1-2 but it support all graphic and cascade style. Right. This certainly has a place for static content. 3- Me My staff want a web-base simple SVG editor that we can work anywhere (for ourself). Accessible to anyone of us. Right. I can certainly see the advantage of this. 4- I like one that can play SVG on 99.9% of the webserver population. Easy for Web develpoer do do one WEB-page that it display the same no matter what browser it is IE 4-5-6-7?? FF 1 -1.2 -1.5 Opera ? AOL ? NS ?? I dont know what you mean by webserver population. You can process SVG with batik on 100% of webservers (well, win32, unix, linux, mac... at least). Is that what you mean? XML-raster on the server, then send it to the client? 5- Timing? It slower because it is interpreted Vs compiled. Depend on how much how big one change it may or may not fit for GAME/animation purpose. But it may fit on other purpose such as map dynamic image generator such as a web-base image drawing. Right. Could be good, especially for clients that cant support static SVG. Are many of these? Have you come accross DENG, the svg viewer written in flash? Also, why not use flash to generate SVG drawings (blasphemy, but fairly easy, I would guess). 6- We are not just starting it. but it has been worked for long. Interesting. Any way to take a look at it? Do you have an online version that is accessible? Ronan On 1/31/06, Ronan Oger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Phi, Your idea of a web-enabled SVg renderer is great and I support the concept if y. Is that an SVG-1.2-full renderer? I am interested to see how you will support things like SMIL events and xmlhttprequest-driven serverside-driven updates. If you manage this, I will be very happy. Even if you only support SVGT, that would already be excellent. However, I have some issues with your point of view: 1. Why do you say adobe has abandoned SVG? Have Adobe pulled ASV and forbidden you from using it? As far as I an tell, this has not happened. Adobe may have decided to stop developing ASV as a product, but so what? That's their own loss. There are other SVG viewer implementations out there, and at least one on the very near horizon. 2. There is already an SVG viewer solution for every platform: Batik. And for each major platform, there is at least one SVG implementation. If you mean cross-browser SVG support, I do not think you can expect much joy. After all, it is a bit much to ask modern developers to continue to support IE6 forever. After all, IE6 is really starting to show its age and is totally out of date. Microsoft can refuse to update their browser, but they do so at their own risk. And while rumours of a pending IE7 abound, I'm not holding my breath for this to be usable on current hardware. I'll be pleasantly surprised to hear of IE7 running on WindowsXP on a 2004-2006 PC or laptop. 3. There is a lot more to SVG than rendering the pixels. time management, transparency management, and event handling are fairly complex things that will be difficult to mimick in dhtml and javascript alone. Of course, you *could* generate pixel maps of an SVG drawing, but doing so is pointless. Exactly what SVG is good at, pixel maps suck at... distinct object context handling. 4. Does your cross.browser free SVG editor work on Konqueror? Can you show a link? Is it better than Batik-based SVG editors? 5. I do not understand why people starved for an SVG plugin to IE6 do not simply compile a Batik applet to handle their SVG. Shouldnt that work? Sure, it would be fat... But it would work. and bandwidth is pretty good these days. For web2.0 apps, this solution should suffice. 6. I am not sure what you mean by dealing with black boxes. The source code for every SVG implementation in the wild except ASV and CSV is freely available. All you need to do is read it. Ronan On Tuesday 31 January 2006 20:53, Phi Tran wrote: But as you know ADOBE is abandoned SVG viewer. And 1- It is not CROSS-BROWSER such as IE 2- I don't like to deal with black box. I want to allow the Web author more flexibility such as to know that color a point is; or he/she what to just move/change one item/element . . . 3- It just a sub product of my Cross-platform/ Cross-browser web-base, Free SVG editor. Hope You may Understand. Phi On 1/31/06, Ronan Oger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I fail to understand why you would want to build a plugin from scratch for SVG when instead you could contribute to Mozilla's SVG team, or Konqueror's SVG
Re: [svg-developers] Plugin opensource
Please forgive me for I can go back to my work. On 1/31/06, Ronan Oger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tuesday 31 January 2006 21:53, Phi Tran wrote: 1- There no server-side XMLHTTP needed. It is 100% Client process. (All it need is an SVG file form the server.). . Right, as long as you are only interested in static content, that is a fine usage. For images, for example. 2- It is not 100% SVG1-2 but it support all graphic and cascade style. Right. This certainly has a place for static content. 3- Me My staff want a web-base simple SVG editor that we can work anywhere (for ourself). Accessible to anyone of us. Right. I can certainly see the advantage of this. 4- I like one that can play SVG on 99.9% of the webserver population. Easy for Web develpoer do do one WEB-page that it display the same no matter what browser it is IE 4-5-6-7?? FF 1 -1.2 -1.5 Opera ? AOL ? NS ?? I dont know what you mean by webserver population. You can process SVG with batik on 100% of webservers (well, win32, unix, linux, mac... at least). Is that what you mean? XML-raster on the server, then send it to the client? Not quite. it is: SERVER''S XML - Client Rasterizing then display. in a standard div such as: YourDIV.innerHTML=Svg2Imgs(YourSvg,RatioX,RatioY). or you can do. YourDIV.innerHTML=Svg2ImgItem(YourSvg,itemID,RatioX,RatioY). I myself I hate when when I goes to a webside it asking me to To OK have an ADD-ON I am not sure that web site should be trusted. There are many of other sites having the similar content. I just ignore then go look for some where else it is not the only one. It is just that simple. I am very guard my computer. I think many other do so. Example: I go to your web site ROASP.COM there is a SVG 5 logo I click on that do you know what??. I got a link to a complete, complete blank page. 5- Timing? It slower because it is interpreted Vs compiled. Depend on how much how big one change it may or may not fit for GAME/animation purpose. But it may fit on other purpose such as map dynamic image generator such as a web-base image drawing. Right. Could be good, especially for clients that cant support static SVG. Are many of these? Have you come accross DENG, the svg viewer written in flash? Also, why not use flash to generate SVG drawings (blasphemy, but fairly easy, I would guess). There are a lot of place that we do not allow to have anything installed. (school, library) I like to build one application that can run only with the very basic browser. I certainly do not allow anyone to install anything on my machine. For security reason I don't even surf more on those who want me to have JAVA enabled - No matter what you do there is simliar one on the net. 6- We are not just starting it. but it has been worked for long. Interesting. Any way to take a look at it? Do you have an online version that is accessible? Ronan I have posted one about on the net about two month ago but I took it (out of the public) for we an make improvement- You know what?? To have a better support for the IE(s). The next one will be available for the public in few weeks. ( about 4). When it is I will let your all know. Anyway. I need to go back to my work. Thanks for your comment and input. Best WISH. Phi On 1/31/06, Ronan Oger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Phi, Your idea of a web-enabled SVg renderer is great and I support the concept if y. Is that an SVG-1.2-full renderer? I am interested to see how you will support things like SMIL events and xmlhttprequest-driven serverside-driven updates. If you manage this, I will be very happy. Even if you only support SVGT, that would already be excellent. However, I have some issues with your point of view: 1. Why do you say adobe has abandoned SVG? Have Adobe pulled ASV and forbidden you from using it? As far as I an tell, this has not happened. Adobe may have decided to stop developing ASV as a product, but so what? That's their own loss. There are other SVG viewer implementations out there, and at least one on the very near horizon. 2. There is already an SVG viewer solution for every platform: Batik. And for each major platform, there is at least one SVG implementation. If you mean cross-browser SVG support, I do not think you can expect much joy. After all, it is a bit much to ask modern developers to continue to support IE6 forever. After all, IE6 is really starting to show its age and is totally out of date. Microsoft can refuse to update their browser, but they do so at their own risk. And while rumours of a pending IE7 abound, I'm not holding my breath for this to be usable on current hardware. I'll be pleasantly surprised to hear of IE7 running on WindowsXP on a 2004-2006 PC or laptop. 3. There is a lot more to SVG than rendering the pixels. time management,
