Re: [OSM-talk] OSM Maps on TomTom
On Thu, 8 Apr 2010, grahamjones...@googlemail.com wrote: It looks quite easy to get a program running on it - the main problem for me will be graphics - without looking at the kernel sources it is not obvious how they have coded it - no SDL or GTK libraries listed etc - they might be writing directly to the framebuffer with their own code. They do, so think in DirectFB solutions. Stefan ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM Maps on TomTom
On 8 April 2010 15:15, grahamjones...@googlemail.com wrote: It looks like the TomTom will not be difficult to write code for. TomTom themselves recognise that they have used OpenSource code to develop it, and provide the open source bits of the software (linux kernels, libraries, and compiler) (http://www.tomtom.com/page.php?Page=gpl). Wouldn't it be better just working out their data format, like someone has done with garmin? Especially since they may use the same format for other platforms, than trying to hack the hardware and/or coming up with custom OS builds... ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM Maps on TomTom
John, You (and Stefan) are probably right - making an OSM to TomTom data format converter would probably be more sensible and take less effort. I had hoped that the TomTom code would have had a standard graphics library included so it would be easy to port an existing OSM based router to it, but it will take quite a bit of effort to port a suitable library to it. The difference is, I can see a way through building an application on the device (which could include GPX track logging etc.), but I don't really know where to start decoding a proprietary data format! Maybe someone else knows how to go about de-coding the data format? Regards Graham. On 8 April 2010 12:36, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: On 8 April 2010 15:15, grahamjones...@googlemail.com wrote: It looks like the TomTom will not be difficult to write code for. TomTom themselves recognise that they have used OpenSource code to develop it, and provide the open source bits of the software (linux kernels, libraries, and compiler) (http://www.tomtom.com/page.php?Page=gpl). Wouldn't it be better just working out their data format, like someone has done with garmin? Especially since they may use the same format for other platforms, than trying to hack the hardware and/or coming up with custom OS builds... -- Dr. Graham Jones Hartlepool, UK email: grahamjones...@gmail.com ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM Maps on TomTom
2010/4/8 grahamjones...@googlemail.com: how they have coded it - no SDL or GTK libraries listed etc - they might be writing directly to the framebuffer with their own code. maybe I don't get the meaning of this thread, but just in case, are you aware of this: http://www.opentom.org/OpenTomSDL more Info here: http://www.opentom.org/OpenTom:Community_Portal and here http://www.opentom.org/Main_Page cheers, Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM Maps on TomTom
On 8 April 2010 23:09, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: maybe I don't get the meaning of this thread, but just in case, are you aware of this: http://www.opentom.org/OpenTomSDL more Info here: http://www.opentom.org/OpenTom:Community_Portal and here http://www.opentom.org/Main_Page Nothing seems to indicate how to replace the data on a tomtom device with another source of data, just how to build routes and POIs... ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM Maps on TomTom
On 8 Apr 2010, at 15:18, John Smith wrote: On 8 April 2010 23:09, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: maybe I don't get the meaning of this thread, but just in case, are you aware of this: http://www.opentom.org/OpenTomSDL more Info here: http://www.opentom.org/OpenTom:Community_Portal and here http://www.opentom.org/Main_Page Nothing seems to indicate how to replace the data on a tomtom device with another source of data, just how to build routes and POIs... I, for one, would love to see OSM maps on my Tom Tom to avoid issues like http://yfrog.com/0r1p1j and http://img207.yfrog.com/i/pk7n.jpg/ I didn't think it was likely to be possible though, don't they use DRM to stop this as if you could get OSM data on there you'd be able to steal their data too. I guess there must be a way as most other DRM has been cracked, but not going to hold my breath. John ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM Maps on TomTom
On 9 April 2010 02:09, John McKerrell j...@mckerrell.net wrote: I didn't think it was likely to be possible though, don't they use DRM to stop this as if you could get OSM data on there you'd be able to steal their data too. I guess there must be a way as most other DRM has been cracked, but not going to hold my breath. Just because their data is protected by DRM, doesn't necessarily mean you need DRM to put other data on their device. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM Maps on TomTom
On Thu, Apr 8, 2010 at 11:36, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: On 8 April 2010 15:15, grahamjones...@googlemail.com wrote: It looks like the TomTom will not be difficult to write code for. TomTom themselves recognise that they have used OpenSource code to develop it, and provide the open source bits of the software (linux kernels, libraries, and compiler) (http://www.tomtom.com/page.php?Page=gpl). Wouldn't it be better just working out their data format, like someone has done with garmin? Especially since they may use the same format for other platforms, than trying to hack the hardware and/or coming up with custom OS builds... Sure, if you can get it to work it should work just fine. I think you're underestimating the effort that goes into reverse engineering a format. Many man-years have gone into reverse engineering the Garmin format (and it's still not fully understood), the Microsoft Office format and Flash just to name a few. Getting a completely different stack of programs to work on new hardware might be relatively easy by comparison. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM Maps on TomTom
On 9 April 2010 02:18, Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason ava...@gmail.com wrote: I think you're underestimating the effort that goes into reverse engineering a format. Many man-years have gone into reverse engineering the Garmin format (and it's still not fully understood), the Microsoft Office format and Flash just to name a few. I realise it most likely isn't an easy undertaking, perhaps it's not worth the effort and a better use of resources might be to organise/sell an OSM branded sat nav unit that has wifi and can update itself. Getting a completely different stack of programs to work on new hardware might be relatively easy by comparison. Given my experience of using bleeding edge builds on other hardware this won't be used by most people, so while it might be easier for devs, it isn't for users. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM Maps on TomTom
On Thu, Apr 8, 2010 at 16:25, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: On 9 April 2010 02:18, Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason ava...@gmail.com wrote: I think you're underestimating the effort that goes into reverse engineering a format. Many man-years have gone into reverse engineering the Garmin format (and it's still not fully understood), the Microsoft Office format and Flash just to name a few. I realise it most likely isn't an easy undertaking, perhaps it's not worth the effort and a better use of resources might be to organise/sell an OSM branded sat nav unit that has wifi and can update itself. I'm sure there's someone on-list with access to a few hundred million dollars and access to large electronics manufacturing capability coupled with a global distribution network. Alternatively we could just continue to produce a free map which people can install on devices that either aren't completely closed down or have existing workarounds. Garmin, iPhone, Anderoid and others come to mind. Getting a completely different stack of programs to work on new hardware might be relatively easy by comparison. Given my experience of using bleeding edge builds on other hardware this won't be used by most people, so while it might be easier for devs, it isn't for users. You'd just have your map installer install a dual-boot system on the TomTom so they user could pick TomTom or OpenStreetMap at startup, see what the Rockbox project has done for portable audio players for an example. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM Maps on TomTom
On 9 April 2010 02:50, Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason ava...@gmail.com wrote: I'm sure there's someone on-list with access to a few hundred million dollars and access to large electronics manufacturing capability coupled with a global distribution network. Considering most electronics of this type area now modular, and there is plenty of cheap electronics manufacturers in Asia, most of whom would have distribution networks already, the bigger problem I think would be the actual satnav software, because to date I haven't seen any free software that would be good enough for most consumers. Alternatively we could just continue to produce a free map which people can install on devices that either aren't completely closed down or have existing workarounds. Garmin, iPhone, Anderoid and others come to mind. Garmin sure, the others usually have screens that are too small to be as useful. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM Maps on TomTom
John McKerrell j...@mckerrell.net wrote in message news:b84c5e6c-bd2b-47f5-b207-bac484b84...@mckerrell.net... I, for one, would love to see OSM maps on my Tom Tom to avoid issues like http://yfrog.com/0r1p1j That's avoidable (a second time, at least) by using the map correction dialogue in the TomTom software. In this case, you'd probably edit the turn restrictions at the next junction to disable all the options. Unless your device doesn't support map corrections, that is. -- Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM Maps on TomTom
On 5 Apr 2010, at 23:21, John Smith wrote: On 6 April 2010 05:25, Richard Weait rich...@weait.com wrote: I get a question at about one in three of the events I attend regarding TomTom or other oddball GPS devices. My fall back is to just recommend what I'm using, even with the drawbacks of a reverse-engineered format. That doesn't help people that have a sat nav device before finding out about OSM, wouldn't it be in OSM's interest to try and find ways to get their maps on as many devices as possible? As far as I'm aware it's not possible to put OSM maps onto a Tom Tom, not as a data layer in Tom Tom's format anyway. To do so would require cracking their data format and whatever encryption they're using for it which I don't believe has been done already. John ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM Maps on TomTom
On 7 April 2010 18:26, John McKerrell j...@mckerrell.net wrote: As far as I'm aware it's not possible to put OSM maps onto a Tom Tom, not as a data layer in Tom Tom's format anyway. To do so would require cracking their data format and whatever encryption they're using for it which I don't believe has been done already. There seems to be a lot of talented hackers out there, perhaps it could be a pet project to try and pique someones interest in working it out. Most hardware hackers just require a new toy to start off, so perhaps step one would be to get a donation of hardware and/or raise the funds needed to purchase one. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM Maps on TomTom
On Wed, Apr 7, 2010 at 10:33 AM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: Most hardware hackers just require a new toy to start off, so perhaps step one would be to get a donation of hardware and/or raise the funds needed to purchase one. It´s the same TomTom-software they use on smartphones. No special hardware needed to develop for it. AND thes have an SDK. MArcus ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM Maps on TomTom
It looks like the TomTom will not be difficult to write code for. TomTom themselves recognise that they have used OpenSource code to develop it, and provide the open source bits of the software (linux kernels, libraries, and compiler) (http://www.tomtom.com/page.php?Page=gpl). It looks quite easy to get a program running on it - the main problem for me will be graphics - without looking at the kernel sources it is not obvious how they have coded it - no SDL or GTK libraries listed etc - they might be writing directly to the framebuffer with their own code. I'll have a look sometime, but if anyone with experience of graphics on embedded systems fancies a look, I would appreciate some pointers on how to get it drawing on the screen! Graham. On Apr 8, 2010 5:49am, Marcus Wolschon marcus.wolsc...@googlemail.com wrote: On Wed, Apr 7, 2010 at 10:33 AM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: Most hardware hackers just require a new toy to start off, so perhaps step one would be to get a donation of hardware and/or raise the funds needed to purchase one. It´s the same TomTom-software they use on smartphones. No special hardware needed to develop for it. AND thes have an SDK. MArcus ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM Maps on TomTom
On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 1:26 PM, Graham Jones grahamjones...@googlemail.com wrote: Hi All, I wondered if anyone is using a TomTom SatNav with OpenStreetMap maps? [ ... ] Can anyone provide me with any pointers please? +1 from me. I get a question at about one in three of the events I attend regarding TomTom or other oddball GPS devices. My fall back is to just recommend what I'm using, even with the drawbacks of a reverse-engineered format. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM Maps on TomTom
Looks like another good one for next year's Google Summer of Code then.If only I'd thought of these 2 months ago! Unless I run out of nerdy jobs to do next winter and do it myselfIf they have got Gnome/GTK running on the TomTom it shouldn't be too difficult to port a routing app to it - just another job to think about! Graham. On 5 April 2010 20:25, Richard Weait rich...@weait.com wrote: On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 1:26 PM, Graham Jones grahamjones...@googlemail.com wrote: Hi All, I wondered if anyone is using a TomTom SatNav with OpenStreetMap maps? [ ... ] Can anyone provide me with any pointers please? +1 from me. I get a question at about one in three of the events I attend regarding TomTom or other oddball GPS devices. My fall back is to just recommend what I'm using, even with the drawbacks of a reverse-engineered format. -- Dr. Graham Jones Hartlepool, UK email: grahamjones...@gmail.com ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM Maps on TomTom
Hello Graham, Be aware that the GTK code that draws rotated text (Pango) is quite slow. You can ask Willem-Jan De Hoog who ported gosmore to the maemo. Richard, are you aware that most oddball GPSs are WinCE powered and that OSM has several apps for them. Sometimes you need to browse the HPC-factor forums or the gpspassions forums to see how it can be unlocked (MioPocket is a very nice replacement shell). I recently bought a new Mio. The builtin app is good, but the maps are a bit out dated. So if I compare it to Gosmore + OSM it is actually quite good: Very up-to-date map with cycling features and PoIs, but without house numbers, pretty rendering and a few other features. Give it a year or two and some people will actually consider it to be an upgrade. Regards, Nic On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 9:38 PM, Graham Jones grahamjones...@googlemail.com wrote: Looks like another good one for next year's Google Summer of Code then.If only I'd thought of these 2 months ago! Unless I run out of nerdy jobs to do next winter and do it myselfIf they have got Gnome/GTK running on the TomTom it shouldn't be too difficult to port a routing app to it - just another job to think about! Graham. On 5 April 2010 20:25, Richard Weait rich...@weait.com wrote: On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 1:26 PM, Graham Jones grahamjones...@googlemail.com wrote: Hi All, I wondered if anyone is using a TomTom SatNav with OpenStreetMap maps? [ ... ] Can anyone provide me with any pointers please? +1 from me. I get a question at about one in three of the events I attend regarding TomTom or other oddball GPS devices. My fall back is to just recommend what I'm using, even with the drawbacks of a reverse-engineered format. -- Dr. Graham Jones Hartlepool, UK email: grahamjones...@gmail.com ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM Maps on TomTom
On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 3:34 PM, Nic Roets nro...@gmail.com wrote: Hello Graham, Be aware that the GTK code that draws rotated text (Pango) is quite slow. You can ask Willem-Jan De Hoog who ported gosmore to the maemo. Richard, are you aware that most oddball GPSs are WinCE powered and that OSM has several apps for them. Sometimes you need to browse the HPC-factor forums or the gpspassions forums to see how it can be unlocked (MioPocket is a very nice replacement shell). I recently bought a new Mio. The builtin app is good, but the maps are a bit out dated. So if I compare it to Gosmore + OSM it is actually quite good: Very up-to-date map with cycling features and PoIs, but without house numbers, pretty rendering and a few other features. Give it a year or two and some people will actually consider it to be an upgrade. Thank you, Nic. So MioPocket can unlock some of these devices, then allow use of say Gosmore + OSM data? Can OSM be converted to the format used by these devices? Or must one jailbreak the device and install another application in order to use the OSM data? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM Maps on TomTom
On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 11:08 PM, Richard Weait rich...@weait.com wrote: So MioPocket can unlock some of these devices, then allow use of say Gosmore + OSM data? 'Jailbreak' is not the correct term. Both the legalities and the technicalities can best be described as 'booting from SD card'. MioPocket performs additional functions such as configuration of the GPS receiver when necessary. Can OSM be converted to the format used by these devices? Or must one jailbreak the device and install another application in order to use the OSM data? I am not aware of anyone working on software for doing that conversion. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM Maps on TomTom
On 6 April 2010 05:25, Richard Weait rich...@weait.com wrote: I get a question at about one in three of the events I attend regarding TomTom or other oddball GPS devices. My fall back is to just recommend what I'm using, even with the drawbacks of a reverse-engineered format. That doesn't help people that have a sat nav device before finding out about OSM, wouldn't it be in OSM's interest to try and find ways to get their maps on as many devices as possible? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
