Re: [OSM-talk] POI display on osm.org
Hi, A feature catalogue requires a very different approach to using the map, though: The user has to be quite methodical to first decide what they are looking for, then open the appropriate category in the catalogue. My approach while looking on a card is, searching for information. So I know what I'm looking for and therefore would verry like the a catalog with categories. Raphael ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] POI display on osm.org
On 23/01/13 08:03, Raphael Studer wrote: A feature catalogue requires a very different approach to using the map, though: The user has to be quite methodical to first decide what they are looking for, then open the appropriate category in the catalogue. My approach while looking on a card is, searching for information. So I know what I'm looking for and therefore would verry like the a catalog with categories. I suspect that looking for things of type X is more of an end user goal though, which isn't the target audience for the OSM web site. The question we should be asking is what sort of approach helps mappers and for that I suspect what things are here may be more useful? Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] POI display on osm.org
On 01/23/2013 09:35 AM, Tom Hughes wrote: I suspect that looking for things of type X is more of an end user goal though, which isn't the target audience for the OSM web site. ...or is it? :-) The question we should be asking is what sort of approach helps mappers and for that I suspect what things are here may be more useful? For that I think the browse map data feature could be made more prominent though I do understand performance/scalability challenges of this. Paweł ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] POI display on osm.org
On 01/22/2013 09:35 AM, Ilya Zverev wrote: Right now, in Roland's version, it isn't even clear that one should click on the map to get information. In one of the EWG meetings POI display was split into two separate tasks: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Top_Ten_Tasks#Clickable_POIs_on_the_frontpage http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Top_Ten_Tasks#POI_inspection_tool_on_the_frontpage I think this separation makes sense and I assume that Roland's solution is for the POI inspection tool task since, as you mentioned, the POI's themselves are not really clickable as on Google Maps for example. For that the Mapnik grid renderer approach looks interesting. For the POI/data inspection tool I think we would need vector tiles approach instead of a regular fire SQL for given coordinates approach but of course this does not mean that Roland's solution does not apply - if it can be scaled for production and nicely integrated into the Rails Port then why not? It is certainly better than current situation where we have nothing clickable and no inspection tool... Paweł ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] POI display on osm.org
On 23/01/13 11:07, Paweł Paprota wrote: On 01/22/2013 09:35 AM, Ilya Zverev wrote: Right now, in Roland's version, it isn't even clear that one should click on the map to get information. In one of the EWG meetings POI display was split into two separate tasks: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Top_Ten_Tasks#Clickable_POIs_on_the_frontpage Well that one seems wrong to me as it is approaching the issue from one of achieving feature parity with Google Maps, but as I have always understood it that has never been our goal. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Top_Ten_Tasks#POI_inspection_tool_on_the_frontpage This is more where I think we should be going, and where the Overpass based system seems to be able to deliver. Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] POI display on osm.org
On 01/23/2013 12:31 PM, Tom Hughes wrote: Well that one seems wrong to me as it is approaching the issue from one of achieving feature parity with Google Maps, but as I have always understood it that has never been our goal. It also provides better user experience. Sure we can say that the main website is only for mappers and having no hit boxes on POI's is OK but then I guess I'd have to start questioning why do I keep spending all this time on improving history view if it's not really the goal for the main website to be usable... Paweł ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] POI display on osm.org
On 23/01/13 13:48, Paweł Paprota wrote: On 01/23/2013 12:31 PM, Tom Hughes wrote: Well that one seems wrong to me as it is approaching the issue from one of achieving feature parity with Google Maps, but as I have always understood it that has never been our goal. It also provides better user experience. Sure we can say that the main website is only for mappers and having no hit boxes on POI's is OK but then I guess I'd have to start questioning why do I keep spending all this time on improving history view if it's not really the goal for the main website to be usable... Talk of usable is meaningless without saying what you want it to be usable for - who the target audience is. Unless of course the argument is that the site should be able to do absolutely anything that a random visitor might ask of it - make tea? mind children? order books from amazon? I don't see what this has to do with the history view either - being able to efficiently explore changes in an area is clearly something of huge interest and usefulness to mappers. I also haven't questioned the usefulness of the POI stuff - just about whether different approaches have different audiences and are therefore of more or less interest to us. Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] POI display on osm.org
If we're talking about upping expectations, let me toss in: speed. If we do POIs we should do them right and that includes instant response in my mind. On Tue, Jan 22, 2013 at 3:35 AM, Ilya Zverev zve...@textual.ru wrote: Hi. I'd like to put the discussion of Roland's POI feature in perspective. Last month the team of openstreetmap.ru released their version of POI search and display engine. Check out the screenshot: http://shtosm.ru/pictures/**osmrupoi.gifhttp://shtosm.ru/pictures/osmrupoi.gifand another one: http://not.textual.ru/zverik/**2/3/osmrupoi-fortalk.gifhttp://not.textual.ru/zverik/2/3/osmrupoi-fortalk.gif There is a catalogue of POI types (a lot like on other sites, flosm.deand such), when you check one or more, markers appear on the map. When a marker is clicked, a popup appears with relevant tags translated into russian: name, opening_hours (parsed), address (using reverse geocoding), cuisine for restaurants, operator, website etc. Alas, everything is in Russian with translations neither available nor planned, and it works only for Russia. You can check it out at http://openstreetmap.ru/#** layer=Mzoom=14lat=57.81758**lon=28.32691http://openstreetmap.ru/#layer=Mzoom=14lat=57.81758lon=28.32691(open Точки интереса (POI) tab on the left). I'd like to expect something no less spectacular and useful on the openstreetmap.org. Right now, in Roland's version, it isn't even clear that one should click on the map to get information. IZ __**_ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.**org/listinfo/talkhttp://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] POI display on osm.org
Do you exclude certain POIs from the selection? post_box, telephone and recycling do not show any details. There is an example for recycling and telephone here http://overpass.apis.dev.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.328lon=5.98zoom=18layers=M Regards, Maarten ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] POI display on osm.org
On 22.01.2013 09:35, Ilya Zverev wrote: When a marker is clicked, a popup appears with relevant tags translated into russian: name, opening_hours (parsed), address (using reverse geocoding), cuisine for restaurants, operator, website etc. I like that part, it's clear that effort has gone into a user-friendly presentation of the data. I'd like to expect something no less spectacular and useful on the openstreetmap.org. Right now, in Roland's version, it isn't even clear that one should click on the map to get information. I also agree that the lack of pointer feedback is a bit of an usability problem with Roland's solution. This is probably a result of the technology - it only appears to look for POI after the click, which prevents subtle feedback like changing the mouse cursor or highlighting an object. However, the approach with the very large and prominent markers on openstreetmap.ru can only really be used together with the feature catalogue. If every single POI in the map were to be represented like that, the screen would be flooded with markers. A feature catalogue requires a very different approach to using the map, though: The user has to be quite methodical to first decide what they are looking for, then open the appropriate category in the catalogue. Spontaneous spatial exploration would not happen. So it's not a given that it would be the right user interface for osm.org. Tobias ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] POI display on osm.org
Neat! I think this is a great feature that makes our data easier for potential users and editors to see which makes it more obvious that we are more than just a pretty map. One thing about tags: You might want to consider hiding some. Especially well known import related tags. I'm thinking specifically of the tiger:* tags we have here in the US but there might be others. They are obviously a formatting nightmare but they are also not really *our* data so excluding them from such a display might make sense. http://i.imgur.com/p9amuhk.png We're working on removing some of them (especially the long tlid one but they're going to be around for a while... Toby On Mon, Jan 21, 2013 at 2:37 AM, Roland Olbricht roland.olbri...@gmx.de wrote: Dear all, have you ever been annoyed that Mapnik doesn't render a name for a street or a pub, although you are interested in? The POI click feature for osm.org now has a public prototype: http://overpass.apis.dev.openstreetmap.org/ Just click on the map somewhere and all the nearby named items are shown with their tags. It follows the idea http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Top_Ten_Tasks#POI_inspection_tool_on_the_frontpage Before this moves to the main site, I would like to improve the usability as much as possible. So I'm grateful for all feedback. For example: Are there places or zoom levels where interesting points are missing? Or places where you get too much? Would you like some other formatting, more or less headlines, icons or whatever to easier categorize the results? Would you like to see something different than the list of tags? Have you other observations or suggestions? For example, Pawel made some technical observations that will give rise to improved speed for way-bbox queries on future version of Overpass API. A few details: You may see three kinds of results. If there are few results, they are shown immediately. If there are more results, they are shown as expandable headlines. If there are no results or way too much results, an error message is shown. The range depends on the zoom level, compensating for mouse position inaccuracies. It is currently about 20 meters on zoom level 18 and doubles with every zoom level. As an extra feature, if an element has a tag value starting with http://;, the headline of the element gets a hyperlink to the URL written in this tag value. Cheers, Roland ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] POI display on osm.org
This looks nice. It's unobstructive and light, but powerfull. I have a few feature requests :) - It would be nice to have a transparent circle where you click your mouse, with the diameter of those 20 meters on zoom 18 So you know what area the baloon is showing. - When you put the URL in the headline, put it on the website tag too. Before I read your mail to the end, I tried to click on the URL and was annoyed it wasn't made into a url. Or at least, put the underline below the headline, so it's visible that it's a link. -When you hover over an item in the baloon, a marker could show up on the map (a circle for a POI, a line for a street) In the future, we should make a service that gives meaning to key-value pairs. For example, oneway=yes and oneway=-1 are just oneway, and oneway=no is twoway. Janko Mihelić 2013/1/21 Roland Olbricht roland.olbri...@gmx.de Dear all, have you ever been annoyed that Mapnik doesn't render a name for a street or a pub, although you are interested in? The POI click feature for osm.org now has a public prototype: http://overpass.apis.dev.openstreetmap.org/ Just click on the map somewhere and all the nearby named items are shown with their tags. It follows the idea http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Top_Ten_Tasks#POI_inspection_tool_on_the_frontpage Before this moves to the main site, I would like to improve the usability as much as possible. So I'm grateful for all feedback. For example: Are there places or zoom levels where interesting points are missing? Or places where you get too much? Would you like some other formatting, more or less headlines, icons or whatever to easier categorize the results? Would you like to see something different than the list of tags? Have you other observations or suggestions? For example, Pawel made some technical observations that will give rise to improved speed for way-bbox queries on future version of Overpass API. A few details: You may see three kinds of results. If there are few results, they are shown immediately. If there are more results, they are shown as expandable headlines. If there are no results or way too much results, an error message is shown. The range depends on the zoom level, compensating for mouse position inaccuracies. It is currently about 20 meters on zoom level 18 and doubles with every zoom level. As an extra feature, if an element has a tag value starting with http://;, the headline of the element gets a hyperlink to the URL written in this tag value. Cheers, Roland ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] POI display on osm.org
Hi. Some remarks: 1) zooming in by double click should IMHO not trigger the bubble zoom in to... 2) the bubble with the pois is too high sometimes. It looks like it's size may be restricted to 100% of the window height, but that's too much as it requires panning the map to read everything 3) in zoom levels 17+ the range for the query might be too less, at least as soon as there's nothing. e.g. at [1] clicking on the corner of a label is too far away from the POI to return any results. 4) especially for POIs not displayed on the map it might be useful to show an additional icon, as there's a missing link between poi nearby and the map. 5) POIs mapped as areas (e.g. building outlines) are not found on click inside the area, but only on the outline (try to click on the real icon: no result; click on the building outline nearby and you get the -real poi) 6) I think, the list of tags is a nice debug view, but it would be great to provide some kind of i18n functionality, that as a default uses more human readble stuff (and probably ignores some tags like source, created_by, ). An additional view data might show the raw tags again. 7) I would change your hyperlink functionality to create a hyperlink in the corresponding tag line instead. There the user reads a hyperlink and IMHO therefore expects it to be clickable, while the slight color change at the title is not very obvious. On top of that there are objects with more than one URL attatched (e.g. website and wikipedia), which again would lead to confusion as it's not intuitive which link would be used in the title. regards Peter [1] http://overpass.apis.dev.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.70356lon=8.770131zoom=18layers=M [2] http://overpass.apis.dev.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.703081lon=8.768023zoom=18layers=M Am 21.01.2013 09:37, schrieb Roland Olbricht: Dear all, have you ever been annoyed that Mapnik doesn't render a name for a street or a pub, although you are interested in? The POI click feature for osm.org now has a public prototype: http://overpass.apis.dev.openstreetmap.org/ Just click on the map somewhere and all the nearby named items are shown with their tags. It follows the idea http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Top_Ten_Tasks#POI_inspection_tool_on_the_frontpage Before this moves to the main site, I would like to improve the usability as much as possible. So I'm grateful for all feedback. For example: Are there places or zoom levels where interesting points are missing? Or places where you get too much? Would you like some other formatting, more or less headlines, icons or whatever to easier categorize the results? Would you like to see something different than the list of tags? Have you other observations or suggestions? For example, Pawel made some technical observations that will give rise to improved speed for way-bbox queries on future version of Overpass API. A few details: You may see three kinds of results. If there are few results, they are shown immediately. If there are more results, they are shown as expandable headlines. If there are no results or way too much results, an error message is shown. The range depends on the zoom level, compensating for mouse position inaccuracies. It is currently about 20 meters on zoom level 18 and doubles with every zoom level. As an extra feature, if an element has a tag value starting with http://;, the headline of the element gets a hyperlink to the URL written in this tag value. Cheers, Roland ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] POI display on osm.org
Damn... Forgot to mention: great effort of course - but I tested first, wrote my results down and forgot to add the congratulation stuff before sending. regards Peter Am 21.01.2013 09:37, schrieb Roland Olbricht: Dear all, have you ever been annoyed that Mapnik doesn't render a name for a street or a pub, although you are interested in? The POI click feature for osm.org now has a public prototype: http://overpass.apis.dev.openstreetmap.org/ Just click on the map somewhere and all the nearby named items are shown with their tags. It follows the idea http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Top_Ten_Tasks#POI_inspection_tool_on_the_frontpage Before this moves to the main site, I would like to improve the usability as much as possible. So I'm grateful for all feedback. For example: Are there places or zoom levels where interesting points are missing? Or places where you get too much? Would you like some other formatting, more or less headlines, icons or whatever to easier categorize the results? Would you like to see something different than the list of tags? Have you other observations or suggestions? For example, Pawel made some technical observations that will give rise to improved speed for way-bbox queries on future version of Overpass API. A few details: You may see three kinds of results. If there are few results, they are shown immediately. If there are more results, they are shown as expandable headlines. If there are no results or way too much results, an error message is shown. The range depends on the zoom level, compensating for mouse position inaccuracies. It is currently about 20 meters on zoom level 18 and doubles with every zoom level. As an extra feature, if an element has a tag value starting with http://;, the headline of the element gets a hyperlink to the URL written in this tag value. Cheers, Roland ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] POI display on osm.org
On 21.01.2013 09:37, Roland Olbricht wrote: The POI click feature for osm.org now has a public prototype: http://overpass.apis.dev.openstreetmap.org/ Let me start this with: Thank you for tackling the issue! Before this moves to the main site, I would like to improve the usability as much as possible. So I'm grateful for all feedback. [...] Would you like to see something different than the list of tags? Yes, indeed - from the way I imagined the POI display, it should not simply be a list of tags, but a human-friendly presentation. This includes filtering, formatting and translations from tags to human language and presentation conventions. So instead of *PADU* addr:city: Passau addr:country: DE addr:housenumber: 85b addr:postcode: 94036 addr:street: Neuburger Straße amenity: restaurant building: yes building:colour: white building:levels: 3 name: PADU opening_hours: Mo-Th 09:00-19:00;Fr-Sa 09:00-24:00;Su 13:00-18:00 roof:colour: red roof:ridge:direction: NE roof:shape: gabled wikipedia: de:PADU I would love to see this: *PADU* Restaurant Neuburger Straße 85b, 94036 Passau Open Mondays 09:00-19:00 //- click expands opening hours PADU on Wikipedia //- clickable link Then add a details link at the bottom for the raw tag list. (Could simply be a link to http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/12345.) All this should of course be localized to the user's language, and easily extended in the future. ;) Of course we don't have to get all that done at once! Still, from my point of view, you have done the first part of the task: Getting the tags out of the data. The second part, that of rendering the tags to something pretty, remains. Tobias ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] POI display on osm.org
Hi, On 01/21/13 11:21, Tobias Knerr wrote: Yes, indeed - from the way I imagined the POI display, it should not simply be a list of tags, but a human-friendly presentation. This includes filtering, formatting and translations from tags to human language and presentation conventions. Isn't that (tags to human-readable description) exactly what Serge (Cc as I'm not sure he's on talk) has been building recently in another context? Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] POI display on osm.org
THIS...IS...AWESOME! :) There are of course feature requests/suggestions. 1) Make it more obvious for people that the POIs can be clicked on. It doesn't have to be on the POIs themselves so it might fall outside of your technical solution. Or maybe lift the solution from Wikipedia's POI map since it's already been done (if license permits). 2) Internationalization would be great. 3) Rather than displaying the tags and their values, translate them into user-friendly strings. A complete list of tags could just clutter the UI. Like if one click's on the border of Reykjavík (capital of Iceland) and choose Reykjavík. It's mainly a list of the city's name in other languages, which has very limited use. 4) Display information when clicking on buildings. Not just about the POIs themselves, also the construction year and such. Maybe present the complete address within the country if available. I'd think the general public would like that very much. 5) Link to the Wikipedia entry if there is one, with priority to the UI's language of choice. This has been done before, I think, in the Wikipedia POI map. You could maybe use the same api to get the correct language. 6) And of course make the code configurable in the backend so others can implement it easily on their OSM sites. :) With regards, Svavar Kjarrval On 21/01/13 08:37, Roland Olbricht wrote: Dear all, have you ever been annoyed that Mapnik doesn't render a name for a street or a pub, although you are interested in? The POI click feature for osm.org now has a public prototype: http://overpass.apis.dev.openstreetmap.org/ Just click on the map somewhere and all the nearby named items are shown with their tags. It follows the idea http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Top_Ten_Tasks#POI_inspection_tool_on_the_frontpage Before this moves to the main site, I would like to improve the usability as much as possible. So I'm grateful for all feedback. For example: Are there places or zoom levels where interesting points are missing? Or places where you get too much? Would you like some other formatting, more or less headlines, icons or whatever to easier categorize the results? Would you like to see something different than the list of tags? Have you other observations or suggestions? For example, Pawel made some technical observations that will give rise to improved speed for way-bbox queries on future version of Overpass API. A few details: You may see three kinds of results. If there are few results, they are shown immediately. If there are more results, they are shown as expandable headlines. If there are no results or way too much results, an error message is shown. The range depends on the zoom level, compensating for mouse position inaccuracies. It is currently about 20 meters on zoom level 18 and doubles with every zoom level. As an extra feature, if an element has a tag value starting with http://;, the headline of the element gets a hyperlink to the URL written in this tag value. Cheers, Roland ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] POI display on osm.org
Some good ideas can be found on http://openlinkmap.org/ But of course it depends on the goal of such a new feature... bring something useful mainly for contributors or for a more broader audience. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] POI display on osm.org
2013/1/21 Janko Mihelić jan...@gmail.com: This looks nice. It's unobstructive and light, but powerfull. +1, great functionality, will be great to have this on the main map! In the future, we should make a service that gives meaning to key-value pairs. For example, oneway=yes and oneway=-1 are just oneway, and oneway=no is twoway. -0.5, there could be a service to do this kind of abstraction, but I really wouldn't want this automatically on the main page. Many tags aren't that clear to interpret, and translations into different languages add even more fuzzyness. cheers, Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] POI display on osm.org
One thing about tags: You might want to consider hiding some. Especially well known import related tags. I'm thinking specifically of the tiger:* tags we have here in the US but there might be others. They are obviously a formatting nightmare but they are also not really *our* data so excluding them from such a display might make sense. http://i.imgur.com/p9amuhk.png Thank you very much for the example. There are even more problematic tags, for example the various name:* tags on locations. So one result of this beta is that the default view should not be based on tags, but rather some processed result. Let's see whether a view of all tags on request is helpful, because it would still help to give clear feedback to contributers. Cheers, Roland ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] POI display on osm.org
- It would be nice to have a transparent circle where you click your mouse, with the diameter of those 20 meters on zoom 18 So you know what area the baloon is showing. - When you put the URL in the headline, put it on the website tag too. Before I read your mail to the end, I tried to click on the URL and was annoyed it wasn't made into a url. Or at least, put the underline below the headline, so it's visible that it's a link. -When you hover over an item in the baloon, a marker could show up on the map (a circle for a POI, a line for a street) -In the future, we should make a service that gives meaning to key-value pairs. For example, oneway=yes and oneway=-1 are just oneway, and oneway=no is twoway. Thank you for the multiple suggestions. I've tried to collect them at http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/POI_display along with the other suggestions made so far. Please feel free to edit that further. Best regards, Roland ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] POI display on osm.org
Hi Roland, On 21 January 2013 08:37, Roland Olbricht roland.olbri...@gmx.de wrote: Dear all, have you ever been annoyed that Mapnik doesn't render a name for a street or a pub, although you are interested in? Really nice and would be great to see it on osm.org. It is just a shame that so many POI's are currently not rendered at all which isn't great for mappers or map users. It would be helpful if they just had some kind of marker so you knew there was something there without loading an editor. As an extra feature, if an element has a tag value starting with http://;, the headline of the element gets a hyperlink to the URL written in this tag value. Would it be possible for the website tag to always be written as a link adding http:// if necessary where it doesn't exist? Kevin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] POI display on osm.org
Hello Peter, thank you for the feedback. I've moved all but 4) to http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/POI_display to not loose the suggestions. 4) especially for POIs not displayed on the map it might be useful to show an additional icon, as there's a missing link between poi nearby and the map. What exactly do you mean here? Having the icons in the bubble? This is indeed a good idea, although not all feature classes have already icons. Having the icons on the map is unlikely possible, because there might be simply not enough space on the Mapnik map. Cheers, Roland ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] POI display on osm.org
2013/1/21 Roland Olbricht roland.olbri...@gmx.de: Hello Peter, thank you for the feedback. I've moved all but 4) to http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/POI_display to not loose the suggestions. 4) especially for POIs not displayed on the map it might be useful to show an additional icon, as there's a missing link between poi nearby and the map. What exactly do you mean here? Having the icons in the bubble? This is indeed a good idea, although not all feature classes have already icons. Having the icons on the map is unlikely possible, because there might be simply not enough space on the Mapnik map. maybe it could be a generic tiny dot (2 pixel radius or similar) in overlay (eventually with shadow and glow to see it against all kinds of backgrounds) which grew on mouseover? Or a semitransparent small circle? cheers, Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] POI display on osm.org
On 21 January 2013 13:49, Roland Olbricht roland.olbri...@gmx.de wrote: Having the icons on the map is unlikely possible, because there might be simply not enough space on the Mapnik map. Maybe so but having clickable POI's is a lot less useful if loads of them don't render. A lot of common usages of shop (eg. shop=furniture, shop=jewelry) don't render at all. If we have another zoom level then I suppose a lot more of this stuff could be made visible which I think will help greatly with maintenance. Not your problem I know :] Kevin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] POI display on osm.org
Am 21.01.2013 14:49, schrieb Roland Olbricht: Hello Peter, thank you for the feedback. I've moved all but 4) to http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/POI_display to not loose the suggestions. 4) especially for POIs not displayed on the map it might be useful to show an additional icon, as there's a missing link between poi nearby and the map. What exactly do you mean here? Having the icons in the bubble? This is indeed a good idea, although not all feature classes have already icons. Having the icons on the map is unlikely possible, because there might be simply not enough space on the Mapnik map. Well, that's the problem I refer to. Mapnik tries to show as much icons as possible while keeping a certain distance in between and so on. Your POI display queries the whole database independent of the POIs in fact displayed on the map itself. If I get a popup saying something about 3 restaurants, but I only see one or two, that looks strange and I have no idea, where the third one might be on the map. With the comparable low distance threshold you implemented, that's not that big thing (as long as the user has an idea which area has been queried; a corresponding highlighting circle has been suggested already), but guessing where on the whole screen an additional restaurant might be, while that is not displayed, is a bad issue. A perfect solution here might be to extend Mapnik to report as additional meta data to a tile the objects rendered (and/or skipped), but that's out of scope of your demo of course. A perhaps easier to implement solution would be to show icons for every POI in the bubble, using icons as close as possible to the icons of the map stylesheet. Ideally the result would be that whenever a POI is shown in the message bubble, this POI is shown on the map (as an overlay icon/temporarily and probably due to the original tiles. regards Peter ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] POI display on osm.org
Am 21.01.2013 14:44, schrieb Kevin Peat: As an extra feature, if an element has a tag value starting withhttp://;, the headline of the element gets a hyperlink to the URL written in this tag value. Would it be possible for the website tag to always be written as a link addinghttp:// if necessary where it doesn't exist? I suggest to add https:// as a valid prefix, but would not add http:// if that's missing - we have to fix these ;) regards Peter ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] POI display on osm.org
On 01/21/2013 03:17 PM, Peter Wendorff wrote: A perfect solution here might be to extend Mapnik to report as additional meta data to a tile the objects rendered (and/or skipped) Mapnik has a grid renderer that does exactly what you described: https://github.com/mapnik/mapnik/wiki/MapnikRenderers Perhaps together with OSM Mapnik update to 2.0 and using Carto for the main stylesheet this could be implemented as well. Paweł ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] POI display on osm.org
Hello Peter, Having the icons on the map is unlikely possible, because there might be simply not enough space on the Mapnik map. If I get a popup saying something about 3 restaurants, but I only see one or two, that looks strange and I have no idea, where the third one might be on the map. It may also discourage the mapper if the third restaurant is not shown on the map. That gets us closer to the problem: there are two different conversions involved here: The first is to get the reality into the database. This is at the heart of the project but essentially a problem of human motivation. A technical solution thus has to motivate mappers and give feedback. This is what the prototype is about: It should show the content of the database as verbatim as possible yet human-readable and -presentable. In particular, the choice which of the three restaurants is the least important is subjective, thus not possible for a machine on a general base, and thus the prototype must show all three restaurants here. The second is to make of the database content a visually appealing map. This is essentially a problem of design. Leaving out features for one or another reason is in general a good choice of design. A tooltip mechamism here is helpful, but on purpose a different task of the Top Ten Tasks. I think a perfect solution here would be to use one or another form of clustering whenever rendering conflicts occur. In particular this requires a straightforward possibilty for the user to easliy hide or show object categories and is thus a completely different approach than a slippy map. A vector map would go in the right direction. A complete solution here is sadly still some years away. Cheers, Roland ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] POI display on osm.org
There are of course feature requests/suggestions.
Thank you for the response. Some of them have already been suggested, and I
will try to collect them all on
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/POI_display
1) Make it more obvious for people that the POIs can be clicked on. It
doesn't have to be on the POIs themselves so it might fall outside of
your technical solution. Or maybe lift the solution from Wikipedia's POI
map since it's already been done (if license permits).
The solution from openlink.org looks like a very good approach to this. But I
don't think this would be acceptable to be shown by default on the main map.
Maybe it can be made an optional overlay.
2) Internationalization would be great.
Yes, indeed.
3) Rather than displaying the tags and their values, translate them into
user-friendly strings. A complete list of tags could just clutter the
UI. Like if one click's on the border of Reykjavík (capital of Iceland)
and choose Reykjavík. It's mainly a list of the city's name in other
languages, which has very limited use.
Yes. I have noted this particular use case of tags as an example for tags to
be treated in a special way.
4) Display information when clicking on buildings. Not just about the
POIs themselves, also the construction year and such. Maybe present the
complete address within the country if available. I'd think the general
public would like that very much.
I fear we don't have very much construction dates. But a decent presentation
may help to show this and other data.
It is an open question whether we can the data make so appealing that the
general public likes it and at the same time the transformation so
straightforward that an average mapper can control the transformation process.
This is highly desirable but a huge job. Please don't forget that Changemonger
has needed a lot of effort to make sense of changesets.
5) Link to the Wikipedia entry if there is one, with priority to the
UI's language of choice. This has been done before, I think, in the
Wikipedia POI map. You could maybe use the same api to get the correct
language.
I thought that the wikipedia link is present explicitly in the tags, isn't it?
The question is whether it is possible to link to a different language
6) And of course make the code configurable in the backend so others can
implement it easily on their OSM sites. :)
The prototype is on purpose almost perfectly decoupled. Just copy the file
https://github.com/drolbr/openstreetmap-
website/blob/master/app/assets/javascripts/popuplayer.js
and insert a line
map.on('click', popupLayer.onMapClick);
More configurability unfortunately doesn't make sense at the moment, as most
things that could be configured may get another implementation with other
configuration options. Whenever code gets more final, it will also get
appropriate configuration options.
Cheers,
Roland
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Re: [OSM-talk] POI display on osm.org
I think Serge was focusing on a human-readable summary of changesets, but his code may be usable for creating a more human-friendly POI inspector. My 2¢ for taking this from good to great: * Restrict to POIs and buildings with POI-type tags. Metadata for streets is much less useful for the general public. Additionally I could envisage a nerd mode where everything-inspection would be enabled. * Only enable at zoom 16+ * Perhaps some (increased) amount of buffering so users don't have to click exactly on the POI icon. * Make it human-readable as discussed. * JOSM / Potlatch link for logged-in users. Some other unobtrusive 'I know something about this POI that's not on the map, show me how to add' link for anonymous users. Great stuff, this. On Mon, Jan 21, 2013 at 3:32 AM, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: Hi, On 01/21/13 11:21, Tobias Knerr wrote: Yes, indeed - from the way I imagined the POI display, it should not simply be a list of tags, but a human-friendly presentation. This includes filtering, formatting and translations from tags to human language and presentation conventions. Isn't that (tags to human-readable description) exactly what Serge (Cc as I'm not sure he's on talk) has been building recently in another context? Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- Martijn van Exel http://oegeo.wordpress.com/ http://openstreetmap.us/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] POI display on osm.org
On 21/01/13 20:11, Roland Olbricht wrote: 5) Link to the Wikipedia entry if there is one, with priority to the UI's language of choice. This has been done before, I think, in the Wikipedia POI map. You could maybe use the same api to get the correct language. I thought that the wikipedia link is present explicitly in the tags, isn't it? The question is whether it is possible to link to a different language There are various methods in linking Wikipedia articles in the 'wikipedia' tag. One is a complete URL and then it's possible to provide a lang:article reference to it. If I were to tag the article version on the Icelandic Wikipedia, non-Icelandic speakers wouldn't have much use for it. That's why the Wikipedia POI map provides a link to the article in the language configured in the UI, if one can be found through interwiki links. I know there is an API for that, somewhere. For some reason, it's also possible to tag Wikipedia articles with wikipedia:lang=article_name_or_url. I think the Wikipedia POI map ignores those but I'm not sure. - Svavar Kjarrval signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] POI display on osm.org
Hi. Thanks for the hint. Last time I asked for this functionality (more than a year ago) I was told that it's not possible in mapnik. As far as I understand it's still a complete additional rendering to perform, as it renders once for the tile and once for meta information in fact. Nevertheless: great to know that something exists. regards Peter Am 21.01.2013 16:44, schrieb Paweł Paprota: On 01/21/2013 03:17 PM, Peter Wendorff wrote: A perfect solution here might be to extend Mapnik to report as additional meta data to a tile the objects rendered (and/or skipped) Mapnik has a grid renderer that does exactly what you described: https://github.com/mapnik/mapnik/wiki/MapnikRenderers Perhaps together with OSM Mapnik update to 2.0 and using Carto for the main stylesheet this could be implemented as well. Paweł ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] POI display on osm.org
What a great addition to the growing new tools/features to the OSM homepage. Fantastic work. In fact I am using the beta as my main map now. A couple of things. A)I having problems when selecting any (large) area. For example a stadium, park, shopping centre, hospital, school, etc where they are amenity, etc as an area. It often selects the smaller POIs inside/on top of the area but not the actual area itself (so returning individual buildings, shops, streams, playgrounds, etc). Often it will display nothing. Occasionally it will get a hit the overall area but not very often and there seems to be no logic to it. Is that because I am not hitting the actual nodes? Or maybe you are not covering areas properly? Even if I search in OSM for e.g. the shopping centre and it places the pointer right in the middle of the area it often will not find anything. Technically it is likely more difficult to get catch areas rather than nodes but logically for the users you want to catch the areas. I imagine relations as multiple ways of areas is even more complex to get a confirmed hit but initially I am just talking about polygon areas B) wikipedia links. It has been said already but even then there is some confusion. The recommended way for tagging wikipedia links is to use wikipedia=language:page title and not wikipedia=http://en.wikipedia.com/blah Here is our wiki page about wikipedia tagging - http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:wikipedia As we have a lot of wikipedia links now it would be great to link directly to the real pages. e.g. Tag wikipedia=en:St Paul's Cathedral would resolve to: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St_Paul%27s_Cathedral But you will have to go some regex/Encoding to get this correct. Anyway sorry if that sounded negative it is just to give feedback and not headaches, keep up the good work. -- View this message in context: http://gis.19327.n5.nabble.com/POI-display-on-osm-org-tp5745598p5745698.html Sent from the General Discussion mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] POI display on osm.org
Am 21.01.2013 22:42, schrieb Rovastar: What a great addition to the growing new tools/features to the OSM homepage. Fantastic work. In fact I am using the beta as my main map now. A couple of things. A)I having problems when selecting any (large) area. For example a stadium, park, shopping centre, hospital, school, etc where they are amenity, etc as an area. It often selects the smaller POIs inside/on top of the area but not the actual area itself (so returning individual buildings, shops, streams, playgrounds, etc). Often it will display nothing. Occasionally it will get a hit the overall area but not very often and there seems to be no logic to it. Is that because I am not hitting the actual nodes? Or maybe you are not covering areas properly? That's the same issue I reported yesterday: The demo matches the geometry itself, and does not know about areas, but only about ways. So if you click inside an area but near any of it's nodes, you get the POI mapped as area, but in the middle of the area, far away from any corner (not edge only) you get nothing. Even if I search in OSM for e.g. the shopping centre and it places the pointer right in the middle of the area it often will not find anything. The pointer is placed in the center of the area (however center is calculated) - thus for convex polygons per definition far away from the corner nodes. regards Peter ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] POI display on osm.org
A)I having problems when selecting any (large) area. For example a stadium, park, shopping centre, hospital, school, etc where they are amenity, etc as an area. Is that because I am not hitting the actual nodes? Or maybe you are not covering areas properly? Thank you for pointing this out. The areas are only found at their border, because in fact the ways that make up their border are found. To compensate for this, the search radius for ways is twice as big than the search radius for nodes. I'll experiment with also including areas. The area mechanism of Overpass API can be used for this, and ironically covers the complex cases with relations better than the simple cases with ways. The difficult thing here is to decide what makes up an area and what not. Not every closed way is an area, so there has to be some tag selection. Another thing is a certain lag behind for the areas of about 24 hours, but that can be improved with some effort on the server side. B) wikipedia links. It has been said already but even then there is some confusion. The recommended way for tagging wikipedia links is to use wikipedia=language:page title and not wikipedia=http://en.wikipedia.com/blah Thank you for clarifying this. While link buiding including escaping is clearly feasile, I'm not yet sure about the language selection. Does the interwiki mechanism expose an API for this? I think it would be best to first link always to the primary language of the object and later implement language selection. Cheers, Roland ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
