Re: Ubuntu Notepad

[Dale Amon]

On Tue, May 10, 2016 at 11:04:30AM +0100, Robie Basak wrote:
> On Mon, May 09, 2016 at 05:16:55PM -0500, Dale Amon wrote:
> > So I am presuming those folks working on it are building everything
> > with a cross compiler. So instead of the one day task I was hoping
> > for, I've got to face the whole learning curve for setting up a
> > cross compile environment for aarch64. 
> 
> It's often possible to do most development and testing by building on a
> local architecture, and switch to the target architecture when ready.
> This is particularly easy for us because Ubuntu is the same (package
> versions, configuration, etc) regardless of architecture.
> 
> Ubuntu's build infrastructure actually builds native for all
> architectures rather than using cross compilers, but I suppose you don't
> have an aarch64 server handy?
> 
> > Can you point me at a HOWTO used to orient the notepad developers
> > to how to set up their cross-platform development environments?
> 
> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ToolChain#Cross_development_toolchain has some
> docs. Basically: "apt-get install gcc-5-aarch64-linux-gnu" and you
> should have a working cross compiler. I'm not sure if any other packages
> are required for a complete toolchain, but the idea is that everything
> you need is already available as packages.

Thanks. I also came up with another way to do it. I'm re-using a
1TB laptop drive in an external enclosure which will not become
/home/dev as a mount on the Aquarius.

I am going to first connect it to my development laptop and download
all the appropriate aarch64 debian packages onto it; then I can

dpkg -i  --root /home/dev/

and install my gcc compiler and debian tools there. That should
work, with just a few adjustments to the make files to search
/home/dev/usr/include during compile. 

There is 1.1GB free in the / partition, so there should be plenty
of room for the few shared libraries I will need to add.

Dale Amon
Sr Engineer
XCOR Aerospace

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Re: Ubuntu Notepad

[Robie Basak]

On Mon, May 09, 2016 at 05:16:55PM -0500, Dale Amon wrote:
> So I am presuming those folks working on it are building everything
> with a cross compiler. So instead of the one day task I was hoping
> for, I've got to face the whole learning curve for setting up a
> cross compile environment for aarch64. 

It's often possible to do most development and testing by building on a
local architecture, and switch to the target architecture when ready.
This is particularly easy for us because Ubuntu is the same (package
versions, configuration, etc) regardless of architecture.

Ubuntu's build infrastructure actually builds native for all
architectures rather than using cross compilers, but I suppose you don't
have an aarch64 server handy?

> Can you point me at a HOWTO used to orient the notepad developers
> to how to set up their cross-platform development environments?

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ToolChain#Cross_development_toolchain has some
docs. Basically: "apt-get install gcc-5-aarch64-linux-gnu" and you
should have a working cross compiler. I'm not sure if any other packages
are required for a complete toolchain, but the idea is that everything
you need is already available as packages.

HTH,

Robie


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Re: Ubuntu Notepad

[Dale Amon]

After looking around the Notepad a bit more, I can see where the
issues are going to come in with storage. It looks to me that there
is no way it can be used as its own development platform. It hasn't
got gcc/gobjc/gcc++ installed, let alone the debian packaging tools.

So I am presuming those folks working on it are building everything
with a cross compiler. So instead of the one day task I was hoping
for, I've got to face the whole learning curve for setting up a
cross compile environment for aarch64. 

Can you point me at a HOWTO used to orient the notepad developers
to how to set up their cross-platform development environments?

Dale Amon

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Re: Ubuntu Notepad

[Dale Amon]

On Fri, May 06, 2016 at 10:13:28PM +0200, Oliver Grawert wrote:
> the phones (and tablets) actually use a rolling release model, the system
> image gets updated every 6 weeks on a fixed schedule and is still based on
> 15.04 (not the LTS) using a separate archive into which important bits get
> backported from newer releases.

That could cause me problems. I had better stay clear of dselect
(my old familiar tool) entirely since it has a tendency to suck
in more than an apt-get.

I will have to cross my fingers that I can get a full objc, GNUStep
and debian package building tools set without getting into trouble.

Also, I had not noticed it was based on an older version. That
might mean I will need to pull in the GNUstep sources and build
my own as there are release critical (for my needs) bugs that have
only recently been fixed.

Nothing is ever quite as straightforward as one would like with
software. Perhaps that is why AI's will never take over the world.
They'll need to keep us humans around to reboot them.

Dale Amon
Sr. Engineer
XCOR Aerospace


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Re: Ubuntu Notepad

[Oliver Grawert]

hi,
Am Freitag, 6. Mai 2016 21:43:07 CEST schrieb Dale Amon :



As to updates... the next LTS is years away. I think we will have
gone through a lot of these lovely little rectangles by then.

the phones (and tablets) actually use a rolling release model, the system 
image gets updated every 6 weeks on a fixed schedule and is still based on 
15.04 (not the LTS) using a separate archive into which important bits get 
backported from newer releases.


if the system is indeed only for toying around and security (and thus 
upgrading) does not matter for you, this is a moot point :)


(note though thaat upgrading using apt will not work either, the system is 
designed for image based upgrades only, an apt based upgrade will 
eventually fail if it hits a package that is bound to this setup)



and as robie said, the ubuntu-phone list [3] is far more appropriate for
the phone and tablet installs where you also will find other users that
have experience with these things.


Thank you for that extra tidbit. I had contacted the list owner to
find out if they covered tablets as well. So the answer is yes.

And so I will, as I will probably need advice on other things.

Now I must get back to work. I've got subversion installed and I am
about to suck in a working set of our toys.


good luck with that :)

ciao
   oli


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Re: Ubuntu Notepad

[Dale Amon]

On Fri, May 06, 2016 at 03:51:37PM +0200, Oliver Grawert wrote:
> note that this will likely break as soon as you do the next OTA update
> and long term you will run out of space on the readonly system
> partition ... 
>
> generally it is a very bad idea to make the system writable, either use
> a libertine container in the writable space [1] or if you dont want to
> use any graphical apps, follow [2] 

All of which depends on the goal. Mine is to port and get functioning
an existing inhouse application as quickly and painlessly as possible.
I am not working on general purpose consumer software. I got it purely 
as a single use dedicated aerospace appliance.

Don't get me wrong... it looks like a very nice notepad, but I
acquired it as a platform for our existing software because for
rapid turn around I need to just do to it what I do to any Linux
platform. Before I had no choice except iPad and its walled garden
that forces you to use it the way they want you to use it.

I will be setting it up to compile and build ARM debian packages
for our library and GNUstep front end and I will then install them
and whatever else is needed. My intent is to have it up
and running for our Monday afternoon electrical systems meeting.

Nothing else on the machine matters; we could delete it all if space
became an issue. For safety reasons I might even ended up setting it 
to come up into our program at the end of the start up process.

As to updates... the next LTS is years away. I think we will have
gone through a lot of these lovely little rectangles by then.

> and as robie said, the ubuntu-phone list [3] is far more appropriate for
> the phone and tablet installs where you also will find other users that
> have experience with these things.

Thank you for that extra tidbit. I had contacted the list owner to
find out if they covered tablets as well. So the answer is yes.

And so I will, as I will probably need advice on other things.

Now I must get back to work. I've got subversion installed and I am
about to suck in a working set of our toys.

Dale Amon
Sr. Engineer
XCOR Aerospace

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Re: Ubuntu Notepad

[Oliver Grawert]

hi,
Am Donnerstag, den 05.05.2016, 16:32 -0500 schrieb Dale Amon:
> On Wed, May 04, 2016 at 04:35:11PM +0100, Robie Basak wrote:
> > On Wed, May 04, 2016 at 10:30:52AM -0500, Dale Amon wrote:
> > > And just a question... you are saying phone. This is the new
> > > Ubuntu Notepad, not a phone.
> > 
> > Sorry, I didn't notice that. I believe it should work the same as the
> > phone, but I'm not sure.
> > 
> > There's also a mailing list on https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone that
> > may be relevant to you, even if the name isn't accurate any more. I'm
> > not aware of a more specific list for your needs.
> > 
> > HTH,
> > 
> > Robie
> 
> I've succeeded, although one of the items I did was not in the
> docs I ran across. Once I got the terminal installed and got a
> sudo bash shell, I found that I had to:
> 
>   mount -o remount,rw /


note that this will likely break as soon as you do the next OTA update
and long term you will run out of space on the readonly system
partition ... 

generally it is a very bad idea to make the system writable, either use
a libertine container in the writable space [1] or if you dont want to
use any graphical apps, follow [2] 

and as robie said, the ubuntu-phone list [3] is far more appropriate for
the phone and tablet installs where you also will find other users that
have experience with these things.

ciao
oli

[1]
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1yJepibh68YaQijWO3Z3dWTtTTmzXnMmEE8eswhUXzw4/edit
[2]
http://askubuntu.com/questions/620740/recommended-way-to-install-regularcli-deb-packages-on-ubuntu-phone/623311#623311
[3] https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone


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Re: Ubuntu Notepad

[Dale Amon]

On Wed, May 04, 2016 at 04:35:11PM +0100, Robie Basak wrote:
> On Wed, May 04, 2016 at 10:30:52AM -0500, Dale Amon wrote:
> > And just a question... you are saying phone. This is the new
> > Ubuntu Notepad, not a phone.
> 
> Sorry, I didn't notice that. I believe it should work the same as the
> phone, but I'm not sure.
> 
> There's also a mailing list on https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone that
> may be relevant to you, even if the name isn't accurate any more. I'm
> not aware of a more specific list for your needs.
> 
> HTH,
> 
> Robie

I've succeeded, although one of the items I did was not in the
docs I ran across. Once I got the terminal installed and got a
sudo bash shell, I found that I had to:

mount -o remount,rw /

to be able to modify files. With that accomplished, I have been
able to do pretty much whatever I want. Probably tomorrow I
will port over some of my data display software, compile it
under the local gcc (I presume this is an ARM processor) and
have a go at live data on the screen.

Thanks for the assistance.

Ad Astra,
Dale Amon
Sr. Engineer
XCOR Aerospace



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Re: Ubuntu Notepad

[Dale Amon]

On Wed, May 04, 2016 at 04:35:11PM +0100, Robie Basak wrote:
> On Wed, May 04, 2016 at 10:30:52AM -0500, Dale Amon wrote:
> > And just a question... you are saying phone. This is the new
> > Ubuntu Notepad, not a phone.
> 
> Sorry, I didn't notice that. I believe it should work the same as the
> phone, but I'm not sure.
> 
> There's also a mailing list on https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone that
> may be relevant to you, even if the name isn't accurate any more. I'm
> not aware of a more specific list for your needs.

Thanks. Will go take a look.

Dale Amon
Sr. Engineer
XCOR Aerospace

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Re: Ubuntu Notepad

[Robie Basak]

On Wed, May 04, 2016 at 10:30:52AM -0500, Dale Amon wrote:
> And just a question... you are saying phone. This is the new
> Ubuntu Notepad, not a phone.

Sorry, I didn't notice that. I believe it should work the same as the
phone, but I'm not sure.

There's also a mailing list on https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone that
may be relevant to you, even if the name isn't accurate any more. I'm
not aware of a more specific list for your needs.

HTH,

Robie


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Re: Ubuntu Notepad

[Dale Amon]

On Wed, May 04, 2016 at 09:14:42AM +0100, Robie Basak wrote:
> On Tue, May 03, 2016 at 05:58:26PM -0500, Dale Amon wrote:
> > Could someone direct me to the information that is necessary to
> > access a root shell on the Aquarius?
> 
> See http://askubuntu.com/a/601972/7808 and the other answers there.
> After you have ssh (or just the Terminal app if you prefer), sudo just
> works (the user password is your unlock PIN).

Thanks. I will.

> > I need to install packages and compile my own GNUstep application to run
> > on it and display data transmitted to it via a UDP stream via a
> > GORM or ncurses5 defined data display.
> 
> I suggest that rather rooting your phone and installing packages there,
> instead you look into building a click package. Then you can distribute
> it to others via the app store if you wish, but also your phone won't
> become unmaintainable.

Won't be distributable. It's for flight test. I will probably be locking
the notepad down in very user unfriendly ways for security and safety
reasons.

And just a question... you are saying phone. This is the new
Ubuntu Notepad, not a phone.

Dale Amon
Sr Engineer
XCOR Aerospace

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Re: Ubuntu Notepad

[Robie Basak]

On Tue, May 03, 2016 at 05:58:26PM -0500, Dale Amon wrote:
> Could someone direct me to the information that is necessary to
> access a root shell on the Aquarius?

See http://askubuntu.com/a/601972/7808 and the other answers there.
After you have ssh (or just the Terminal app if you prefer), sudo just
works (the user password is your unlock PIN).

> I need to install packages and compile my own GNUstep application to run
> on it and display data transmitted to it via a UDP stream via a
> GORM or ncurses5 defined data display.

I suggest that rather rooting your phone and installing packages there,
instead you look into building a click package. Then you can distribute
it to others via the app store if you wish, but also your phone won't
become unmaintainable.

Robie

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