Re: Can We Use OpenGL in the UV Editor ? Tutorial #4
Hi Zaug, thx, if all work is done here (the neverending story) I'll hopefully have enough time to go deeper in Flash and actionscript, which can be really helpy for creating nice looking tutorials...(nicer than this ;-) Unfortunately I'm building up at the moment a new company with a friendboahhh 15-18 hours of work a day... nothing left to say. If everything is working as exspected, everything will be normalized in the mid/end of the year, and then there is time enough left to work out all the promised things of the last years the robowalker, some scripts, UV-tutorial, some free models. I'm really working hard at the moment... and being on the list with a cup of coffee is a nice moment on this stressy days :-) Matthias - Original Message - From: Zaug [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: user-list@light.realsoft3d.com Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2008 3:36 AM Subject: Re: Can We Use OpenGL in the UV Editor ? Tutorial #4 Part 1: http://bild-frei.com/index.php?id=45 (OK, quick and dirty not very much time on the table...) Matthias, If that is quick and dirty, languid and passionate will likely be nominated for an an award ; ) Very effective presentation method; I had not considered something like this for a tutorial medium. Thank you for the work on this. Zaug
Re: Can We Use OpenGL in the UV Editor ? Tutorial #4
- Original Message - From: studio [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: user-list@light.realsoft3d.com Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2008 3:35 AM Subject: Re: Can We Use OpenGL in the UV Editor ? Tutorial #4 When is Daddy coming home ? Why are the wolves laughing ? Part 1: http://bild-frei.com/index.php?id=45 (OK, quick and dirty not very much time on the table...) Matthias Hi Matthias : This is a very beautiful tutorial . It almost looks like 'Flash' , the way it loads . What S/W did you use to build it ? (i'm still using notepad) . Typo3 (an open source CMS www.typo3.org) Borders of the thumbs are generated on the serverside via typo3+graphicsmagick+mask. Popup Effect is a extension, which integrates Lightbox http://www.huddletogether.com/projects/lightbox2/ in Typo3. I have to layout it, that it fits to the rest of the website, but not enough time . Anyway , yes , thanks for doing this , and I tried these exact same steps a few days ago . Trust me , I get the con- cept of 'Map2object' and using a cylinder . I just didn't get any good results , but I think it was just the model that was used (the head.r3d object) . Hm, maybe the cylinder seam was not at the right side. More or less is it a simple projection of coordinates from the cylinder to the heads default UV-coordsys what is done behind the curtain :-? Matthias
Re: Can We Use OpenGL in the UV Editor ? Tutorial #4 and S/W Links
This is a very beautiful tutorial . It almost looks like 'Flash' , the way it loads . What S/W did you use to build it ? (i'm still using notepad) . Typo3 (an open source CMS www.typo3.org) Borders of the thumbs are generated on the serverside via typo3+graphicsmagick+mask. Popup Effect is a extension, which integrates Lightbox http://www.huddletogether.com/projects/lightbox2/ in Typo3. I have to layout it, that it fits to the rest of the website, but not enough time . Matthias Cool . Thanks for the links . I'll have to check them out . Since you are too busy lately to know if it is light outside or dark , here's a link to another really awesome freeware desktop (system tray actually) utility . http://www.singerscreations.com/AboutWeatherWatcher.asp Highly configurable with many options , Weather Watcher is voted a top notch spyware free , freeware utility that can tell you everything from humidity to moon phase . Now when you feel your fangs growing and your claws scratching , you can just check your system tray to see if the moon is full . He has other cool S/W too , like a utility that will launch your website automatically from the CD you burn it too .(hope that makes sense) . Imagine an RS tutorial CD that launches automatically and shows a brief intro of snapshots of all the various tutorials included ? Windows-only , from what I can see . garry
Re: Can We Use OpenGL in the UV Editor ? Tutorial #4
so that we could then look at the unwrapped mesh and see how it has been textured ? Did I miss something :-? Something like this. http://the-final.com/rs/UV-Ogl.jpg Matthias Listen ... , Moe : Yes , you missed it every single time I drug you down to the river to drink the red/green/blue water . I'll try again . Look at the attached image (again) . This is a screen cap of the 'UV Coords' in the 'UV Editor' . It is an unwrapped mesh . As you can plainly see , it is untextured . Now , what I asked , originally , was , why not texture this with OpenGL so that we can get instant feedback about how our mesh is being textured , without having to constantly look at the actual model .. try to spin it around etc etc etc ? . If you aren't getting this tiny point , then you must not be understanding any of this whole complete thread . I'll try this one again , too . (look below , not above) . You said it was easy to unwrap a mesh by first desroying all the UV's . You said , (quote) with totally destroyed UVs . So , how do we totally destroy the UV's ? Which button do we push ? What is the process ? How can we achieve this ? Is there a trick ? Do you have a link ? Is it in the manual? Is it only available on the V6 Demo ? Do you have any advice on what a person has to do to duplicate this function ? Do we need ZBrush ? Have you seen the incredible deal on C4D BodyPaint 3D combo ? There is an ugly chinese woman down the hall . Should I throw one into her so that she will translate these mails ? Is anything easy ? Why not ? I bought a new quad-core system . Why ? Do I need it to bang my head against the wall ? Shall I move toward the light ? Is it a train coming ? What have I accomplished this winter ? Nada ? OK . Why ? Is this progress ? No . When is Daddy coming home ? Why are the wolves laughing ? garry attachment: matts-unwrapping.gif
Re: Can We Use OpenGL in the UV Editor ? Tutorial #4
- Original Message - From: studio [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: user-list@light.realsoft3d.com Sent: Monday, March 17, 2008 6:37 PM Subject: Re: Can We Use OpenGL in the UV Editor ? Tutorial #4 so that we could then look at the unwrapped mesh and see how it has been textured ? Did I miss something :-? Something like this. http://the-final.com/rs/UV-Ogl.jpg Matthias Listen ... , Moe : Yes , you missed it every single time I drug you down to the river to drink the red/green/blue water . I'll try again . Look at the attached image (again) . This is a screen cap of the 'UV Coords' in the 'UV Editor' . It is an unwrapped mesh . As you can plainly see , it is untextured . OK, Curly: USE A BACKGROUND IMAGE FOR THE DESIRED UV-COORDINATE SYSTEM. Boahhh. (Finger in the eye at this point.) Now , what I asked , originally , was , why not texture this with OpenGL so that we can get instant feedback about how our mesh is being textured , without having to constantly look at the actual model .. try to spin it around etc etc etc ? . ==Spinning around :-? An UNWRAPPED mesh :-? Aaaah. Maybe we have a totally different understanding of UV-Coordinates :-? If you aren't getting this tiny point , then you must not be understanding any of this whole complete thread . ==I can't believe the question. I'll try this one again , too . (look below , not above) . You said it was easy to unwrap a mesh by first desroying all the UV's . You said , (quote) with totally destroyed UVs . Start modeling a head from a cube the result are useless UVs. So , how do we totally destroy the UV's ? Which button do we push ? ==No button, see above comment. What is the process ? How can we achieve this ? Is there a trick ? Do you have a link ? Is it in the manual? Is it only available on the V6 Demo ? Do you have any advice on what a person has to do to duplicate this function ? ==See above again, it's a normal process while modeling with Polygons. Do we need ZBrush ? ==No, Z-Brush is in my arsenal, but it's not needed here. Have you seen the incredible deal on C4D BodyPaint 3D combo ? ==No need, same as Z-Brush above There is an ugly chinese woman down the hall . ==Looked in the hall, noop ;-) .. Should I throw one into her so that she will translate these mails ? Is anything easy ? Why not ? I bought a new quad-core system . Why ? Do I need it to bang my head against the wall ? Shall I move toward the light ? Is it a train coming ? What have I accomplished this winter ? Nada ? OK . Why ? Is this progress ? No . When is Daddy coming home ? Why are the wolves laughing ? garry
Re: Can We Use OpenGL in the UV Editor ? Tutorial #4
When is Daddy coming home ? Why are the wolves laughing ? garry Part 1: http://bild-frei.com/index.php?id=45 (OK, quick and dirty not very much time on the table...) Matthias
Re: Can We Use OpenGL in the UV Editor ? Tutorial #4
Part 1: http://bild-frei.com/index.php?id=45 (OK, quick and dirty not very much time on the table...) Matthias, If that is quick and dirty, languid and passionate will likely be nominated for an an award ; ) Very effective presentation method; I had not considered something like this for a tutorial medium. Thank you for the work on this. Zaug
Re: Can We Use OpenGL in the UV Editor ? Tutorial #4
Hi Garry, The unwrapped head mesh is the best example of a normal UV Coords in RS that I've seen so far . I'm shocked ! I mean , it almost appears to look normal . Simple head model with totally destroyed UVs, then used a Cylnder Map and Map2Obj no voodoo Now , if we had true OpenGL suport in this part of the UV Editor we would be able to see all the texturing done to this mesh . (that was my original point way back when ...) Maybe the image paths are not set right, you should see the images (color, bump) in the UV editor as background images. Matthias
Re: Can We Use OpenGL in the UV Editor ? Tutorial #4
Simple head model with totally destroyed UVs, Totally destroyed UV's ? You've got me there . Shall I bite ? then used a Cylnder Map and Map2Obj no voodoo No voodoo , but not simple , and certainly not intuative . I've included the result image , directly from the '3D Painting' section of the manual . As you can see , it certainly is far less than adequate (well , not to everyone , apparently) . I had much better luck than the manual's horrible example by rotating the cylinder mapping 90-180 degrees . Maybe the image paths are not set right, you should see the images (color, bump) in the UV editor as background images. Matthias I'll repeat it again in this thread ... the simple point I have been trying to make : This screen cap is of the 'UV Coords' , which does not offer the user the ability to see how the mesh has been textured . So way back when I began this nightmare pilgrimage , I asked why not , why couldn't this be textured in realtime opengL so that we could then look at the unwrapped mesh and see how it has been textured ? That's really what this thread was all about , yet I keep getting directed toward how RS does UV mapping , instead . I know how RS maps UV , basically . I think it is a hurried effort , at best . However , I have posted mails on the sub- ject in the spirit of the everlasting - for what it's worth . thanks garryattachment: manual_head.gifattachment: matts-unwrapping.gif
Re: Can We Use OpenGL in the UV Editor ? Tutorials #2 #3
http://www.realsoft.info/modules.php?op=modloadname=Newsfile=articlesid=66 http://www.realsoft.info/modules.php?op=modloadname=Newsfile=articlesid=115 Yes , I remember these examples as well . Also , I remember your parting remarks : More to come ... How to animate the UVs. And... How to create UVs after a heavy modelling session. And... How to paint on the created UVs. When is Daddy coming home? Very wise of you to use a rectangle to show an example on . The RS SDS UV mapping tools (mostly) are very good at mapping if you stick to parallel mapping tools . Good for rectangles , and even for square objects (if you're in a daring mood) . The Egg Cup tutorial is also a good example of using a , square parallel mapping on a round object . Very wise . RS will excel at this , in theory , even though it's actual real-world working style leaves much to be desired . BTW: In my opinion you should think about the difference between connected and separated UV-faces, too. Very important for SDS in smoothed mode. I can just imagine . Have in mind that RS has UVW-Coordinates (W is the UV-Coordinates Z-Axis, important for using UVs with procedural textures ;-) not UVs only... If that's not enough: You have the possibility to combine different layered UVWs ;-) Yes , but big deal . That's like saying this multi-engine air plane is fully equipped with pontoons , when we are actually flying over the Sahara desert on one engine . garry
Re: Can We Use OpenGL in the UV Editor ?
http://www.realsoft.info/modules.php?op=modloadname=Newsfile=articlesid=58 http://www.realsoft.info/modules.php?op=modloadname=Newsfile=articlesid=66 http://www.realsoft.info/modules.php?op=modloadname=Newsfile=articlesid=115 BTW: In my opinion you should think about the difference between connected and separated UV-faces, too. Very important for SDS in smoothed mode. Maybe texturing objects is as hard as animating objects :-? Have in mind that RS has UVW-Coordinates (W is the UV-Coordinates Z-Axis, important for using UVs with procedural textures ;-) not UVs only... If that's not enough: You have the possibility to combine different layered UVWs ;-) One last link left: RS v4.5 ;-) http://the-final.com/rs/Mapping_is_everything.zip (Head has multi UV via channels) My conclusion after working since some days with RS Uvs. It's getting better and better. Not perfect at all because of the different smoothing but ok for me. Matthias - Original Message - From: studio [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: user-list@light.realsoft3d.com Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2008 1:23 AM Subject: Re: Can We Use OpenGL in the UV Editor ? Hi Garry, Ok I can see you're totally lost. Trust me , I wish it was me . I wish I was lost . If I was lost , all I would have to do is spend some time learning . However , I have read the manual , I have seen the very cool camtasia/flash tutorial on the forum , and this whole UV Editor concept seems very lacking in RS . Anyway , thanks for the long mail . Much appreciated . I realize now that you had taken a snapshot of , not of UV Coords mode , but of Texture mode , in the editor . The point I was trying to make was that the UV Coords in the UV Editor should also be showing exactly what has been applied to the object , face by face , in OpenGL . However, I had been erroneously assuming that RS was doing a full and accurate mesh Unwrap , when in fact it's not close . That's what I was getting at . Seem's bizzare to me that it's not showing a fully unwrapped OpenGL shaded mesh , but oh well , whatever . Many , many things inside RS seem totally bizzare to me . In fact , every step I take leaves me wondering if any- one has ever actually used this program before . I am continually amazed at the quirks almost complete lack of fluidity , and the multi-step workarounds required . Even the most simple thing , since the beginning of 3D is the ability to spin a 3D object about it's COG , but in RS , we cannot even do that , unless it's right smack friggin' dab in the middle of the view window . If someone tells me that I'm the very first person to come along and notice that , then I'd have to say there is something most certainly rotten in Denmark . Hard to think about where to start... First of all you must have a very clear mind about what the UV editor is about. What a UV layout means, what you have to keep in mind, what you need to avoid. Too bad the RS server is down . The UV-Texturing flash video shows a perfectly unwrapped mesh , and it is being colored in the UV Editor . To me , this mesh should be showing a realtime preview , so that the author wouldn't have to keep spinning the frog around and around to see the results ... but that's just me , I guess . I've done all that you've said below , many times , but it seems an impossible setup with even the simplest objects , let alone a human head ... but maybe there are well known bugs and maybe I'm missing steps . However , the point you make about using selected faces and not faces is the key and the only way to work with UV mappings in RS , even with a simple cube object . thanks again garry In the UV editor you see your entire texture. The UV polygons are on top of the image. Keep in mind that the UV's are a different set of polygons. They have their own life more or less independent from the faces of your object. Each UV polygon corresponds to the actual face on your object. But it can have its own size. You could also think of UV polygons like how a tailor creates a coat. He put these paper masks on top of the cloth, cuts the cloth and sews it together to create a 3D object. So you will not see a 3D or shaded object in the UV editor. In that editor you can only see which polygon will cover which area of the texture. This also means that you can put UV polygons on top of each other. This will cause that several polygons of your object will use the same part of the texture. When you look at my UV editor picture you can see that the UV polygon that belongs to the top face of the object covers a much larger area of the texture, which means that this face will get much more detail. Something quite important to keep in mind. When you use the grid in the UV editor it uses the same units like the other views. So it says centimeters, inches whatever. But that's something to ignore
Re: Can We Use OpenGL in the UV Editor ?
The obvious answer to my original question seems to be No , there is no OpenGL viewing of the UV Mesh in the UV Editor . OK , fine . Hi Garry, I cut most of your text as I didn't exactly understand it. I got the feeling you went wrong very early in the process. I attached two images: One perspective and one UV editor view. Both of the same object. Before I continue I would like to know if this sort of thing is what you're looking for. Arjo. Arjo : Yes , and no . The last mail was about trying to spin an object about it's COG , so that we can easily rotate it to see how the texturing is coming along . Simple . Yes , the original mail I sent yesterday asked if it was possible to do exactly what your images show . That's what I've been trying to do since yesterday , but had to give up when the UV View Property Window finally froze . thanks garry
Re: Can We Use OpenGL in the UV Editor ?
Before I continue I would like to know if this sort of thing is what you're looking for. Arjo. I forgot to mention I can add a texture via the SDS's Col Tab , but when I drag and drop a shader onto the mesh in UV Editor , the object get's shaded , but the UV mesh does not . garry
RE: Can We Use OpenGL in the UV Editor ?
Hi Garry, Ok I can see you're totally lost. Hard to think about where to start... First of all you must have a very clear mind about what the UV editor is about. What a UV layout means, what you have to keep in mind, what you need to avoid. In the UV editor you see your entire texture. The UV polygons are on top of the image. Keep in mind that the UV's are a different set of polygons. They have their own life more or less independent from the faces of your object. Each UV polygon corresponds to the actual face on your object. But it can have its own size. You could also think of UV polygons like how a tailor creates a coat. He put these paper masks on top of the cloth, cuts the cloth and sews it together to create a 3D object. So you will not see a 3D or shaded object in the UV editor. In that editor you can only see which polygon will cover which area of the texture. This also means that you can put UV polygons on top of each other. This will cause that several polygons of your object will use the same part of the texture. When you look at my UV editor picture you can see that the UV polygon that belongs to the top face of the object covers a much larger area of the texture, which means that this face will get much more detail. Something quite important to keep in mind. When you use the grid in the UV editor it uses the same units like the other views. So it says centimeters, inches whatever. But that's something to ignore completely. A texture always runs from 0 to 1. Just like in the VSL editor. So the texture size is always 1 x 1 meter on the grid. That's why the rest around the image is black. When you make a UV polygon 1 x 2 meter the corresponding face on the object will get the image twice (if you have set the image to repeat). So how to get such a layout? You always need to start with a standard mapping object to have a start for a good projection. Next you multi select the object and the mapping and hit the Map2Obj tool. Set option faces and select the right material, next hit OK. On the spec tab of your object you can see the face material that has been attached. The original material mapping object can be deleted. When you open the UV editor you must be sure that your object is in face edit mode. First right click and select the material you want to edit from the popup menu. When you select a face on your object you can see it highlight in the uv editor too. Now you can resize, rotate or drag your UV-polygon around. Or when you choose point edit you can edit the points. To get a good start projection I create several mappings for each side of the object. Then I select the face and the mapping object and use the option Selected faces instead of Faces in the Map2Obj tool. In the case of this simple cube I would need three parallel mapping objects. One for the front and back, one for the sides and one for the top. But when you want to do serious unwrapping of more complex objects like a human head, you'll need more advanced tools outside Realsoft. Tools that support automatic unfolding of your mesh. Tools that only need a line across your object to serve as a seam. The rest will be done almost automatically. I hope this helps a bit. Unwrapping objects will take some study to get familiar with. Arjo. -Oorspronkelijk bericht- Van: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:owner- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Namens studio Verzonden: dinsdag 11 maart 2008 21:17 Aan: user-list@light.realsoft3d.com Onderwerp: Re: Can We Use OpenGL in the UV Editor ? Before I continue I would like to know if this sort of thing is what you're looking for. Arjo. I forgot to mention I can add a texture via the SDS's Col Tab , but when I drag and drop a shader onto the mesh in UV Editor , the object get's shaded , but the UV mesh does not . garry
Re: Can We Use OpenGL in the UV Editor ?
of Faces in the Map2Obj tool. In the case of this simple cube I would need three parallel mapping objects. One for the front and back, one for the sides and one for the top. But when you want to do serious unwrapping of more complex objects like a human head, you'll need more advanced tools outside Realsoft. Tools that support automatic unfolding of your mesh. Tools that only need a line across your object to serve as a seam. The rest will be done almost automatically. I hope this helps a bit. Unwrapping objects will take some study to get familiar with. Arjo. -Oorspronkelijk bericht- Van: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:owner- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Namens studio Verzonden: dinsdag 11 maart 2008 21:17 Aan: user-list@light.realsoft3d.com Onderwerp: Re: Can We Use OpenGL in the UV Editor ? Before I continue I would like to know if this sort of thing is what you're looking for. Arjo. I forgot to mention I can add a texture via the SDS's Col Tab , but when I drag and drop a shader onto the mesh in UV Editor , the object get's shaded , but the UV mesh does not . garry
Can We Use OpenGL in the UV Editor ?
Is the realtime OpenGL shading broken in the UV Editor Window too , or is it just my OpenGL card , or am I just not using it correctly , or rather , is it not set up to show a fully OGL shaded UV Mesh ? Correct me if I'm wrong but it would seem to me that one would want a real-time representation of exactly what is already mapped on the SDS object . What bet- ter way to see that , than viewing it directly on the shaded wireframe representation in the UV Editor ? The 'UV View' Properties Window shows the option to have OpenGL Shaded , but nothing I have ever seen in the manual about UV Editing (1 or 2?) meager pages , shows any OGL shading . So , I have to wonder , is it broken , or is the UV Properties window erroneously trying to apply shading that hasn't actually been coded into RSV6 yet ? Or am I not interpreting this option properly ? studio
Re: Can We Use OpenGL in the UV Editor ?
Well i can not give any mouse command in the UV view prop window , it does not reacte at all ??- see JPG. andre Wow : I have been able to use that window all afternoon , and now , after I got your mail , it is also completely dead ! That's crazy . Like some kind of time bomb , or something . You are on 64 bit , no ? I'm XP-pro 32 . Anyway , if you want to try to learn some SDS texturing clues (and there are very few around for RS) go to this link from the forum and see a neat flash video . 25 MB http://www.henergy.kiev.ua/tutrs3d/rs_painting/rs_painting.html I spent hours trying to duplicate it but it was somewhat comedic . It works , but renders differently than the OGL shows , and the face mappings seem to not want to remember the colors I assigned them . I was experimenting on that bizzare default SDS Cylinder so maybe that's part of the problem . garry Is the realtime OpenGL shading broken in the UV Editor Window too , or is it just my OpenGL card , or am I just not using it correctly , or rather , is it not set up to show a fully OGL shaded UV Mesh ? Correct me if I'm wrong but it would seem to me that one would want a real-time representation of exactly what is already mapped on the SDS object . What bet- ter way to see that , than viewing it directly on the shaded wireframe representation in the UV Editor ? The 'UV View' Properties Window shows the option to have OpenGL Shaded , but nothing I have ever seen in the manual about UV Editing (1 or 2?) meager pages , shows any OGL shading . So , I have to wonder , is it broken , or is the UV Properties window erroneously trying to apply shading that hasn't actually been coded into RSV6 yet ? Or am I not interpreting this option properly ? studio
