[USMA:16299] Re: resistance to US metrication
America is NOT the most advanced country!! germany is in many aspects decades ahead! From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: U.S. Metric Association [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [USMA:16295] resistance to US metrication Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 22:43:30 EST And I thought I was the cynical one! Gee, guys, where is all this frustration coming from? I think it comes from lack of leadership inspiration. US metrication has to be a cause, not just a task. The conversion of the measurement system used in the wealthiest, and putatively, the most technologically advanced nation in the world, will be accompanied by the groanings previously mentioned (minority rights? Hey, this was a discussion of metrology! I wouldn't want to debate religion here, gosh), but not if it becomes a campaign. So, I'll start. In the words of another New Englander, Alan Shepard, I want to stop all this arguing and light this candle. First, I'm going to Coca Cola, a company started by a pharmacist. I'm gonna be busy, so I'll be off the list for a while, but I'll be back. See y'all later. Paul T. Paul _ Downloaden Sie MSN Explorer kostenlos unter http://explorer.msn.de/intl.asp
[USMA:16300] Re: Wentworth letter
I don't think that the Big Three would quite suffice. I think we need to include degrees Celsius and watts and maybe (although a bit less important) kilopascals and kilojoules. Various combinations like kilometres per hour need to be included, also (and perhaps Wyeth meant to include them). Well, yes, I did omit degrees C. That makes it the Big 4. Other combinations would follow as a matter of course. I could drive my MegaGasALot SUV, weighing 2500 kg, down to the store for a liter of milk and burn a liter of fuel in the process. HARRY WYETH
[USMA:16301] Depressing...
I am going to run in the Sacramento International Marathon on December 2 here in California. I checked out the event on the web and found no reference to distances in km, so I sent a message asking why not. I received a nice reply which explained why (there IS a LOT of organizing that goes into putting on a major race such as this), and also mentioned that I was the FIRST person to make such an inquiry. That is depressing. Happy Thanksgiving to all. Here's the site if you want to read about the event. http://www.runcim.org/data/MarHome.html HARRY WYETH
[USMA:16302] Re: resistance to US metrication
2001-11-22 True! But, America has a more effective system of propaganda. And no matter how much greater somewhere else may be, it is lost when America's propaganda is more intense. Billions of people world-wide view American TV programs and movies and are influenced by what they see. Including Germany. Many people from Eastern Europe and elsewhere are emmigrating to the US in the thousands. And to them, compared to what they came from, America is a paradise. Despite the fact, that many countries can offer the same type of living standard, or even better, is overlooked because the US has the reputation. I live only a few hours from the Canadian border, and have gone to Canada many times. Canada has its problems too, but all in all, its cities are cleaner, safer and more affluent looking. But, let's face it, Canada has a self image problem. Every Canadian I ever talk to has a woe is me attitude. Constantly complaining about their dollar being only worth about 66 US cents. My comment back was that the value of their currency compared to another was meaningless. It was agreed that the value of the Canadian dollar had little or no effect on the person's living standard and the persons were able to afford a decent life. But still the value of the dollar was negative and something to whine about. As a result, I'm sure many people elsewhere are turned off to Canada as a potential place to stay, and even those who do go there use it as a steping stone to the US. Canada may be better, but the propaganda puts the US in a higher position, and people are always lured by slick advertisements (propaganda), even if those advertisements are far from the truth. John - Original Message - From: Wizard of OS [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: U.S. Metric Association [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, 2001-11-22 04:36 Subject: [USMA:16299] Re: resistance to US metrication America is NOT the most advanced country!! germany is in many aspects decades ahead! From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: U.S. Metric Association [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [USMA:16295] resistance to US metrication Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 22:43:30 EST And I thought I was the cynical one! Gee, guys, where is all this frustration coming from? I think it comes from lack of leadership inspiration. US metrication has to be a cause, not just a task. The conversion of the measurement system used in the wealthiest, and putatively, the most technologically advanced nation in the world, will be accompanied by the groanings previously mentioned (minority rights? Hey, this was a discussion of metrology! I wouldn't want to debate religion here, gosh), but not if it becomes a campaign. So, I'll start. In the words of another New Englander, Alan Shepard, I want to stop all this arguing and light this candle. First, I'm going to Coca Cola, a company started by a pharmacist. I'm gonna be busy, so I'll be off the list for a while, but I'll be back. See y'all later. Paul T. Paul _ Downloaden Sie MSN Explorer kostenlos unter http://explorer.msn.de/intl.asp
[USMA:16303] Re: Depressing...
2001-11-22 Despite being the first and only, insist they do accomodate SI. Tell them you are speaking on behalf of all foreign participants and the silent majority. It can't be that hard to incorportate SI units into the literature. Also explain that the marathon is now metric, being 42.2 km or 42 200 m. Thus, every 100 m can be marked off along the route. John - Original Message - From: Harry Wyeth [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: U.S. Metric Association [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, 2001-11-22 06:36 Subject: [USMA:16301] Depressing... I am going to run in the Sacramento International Marathon on December 2 here in California. I checked out the event on the web and found no reference to distances in km, so I sent a message asking why not. I received a nice reply which explained why (there IS a LOT of organizing that goes into putting on a major race such as this), and also mentioned that I was the FIRST person to make such an inquiry. That is depressing. Happy Thanksgiving to all. Here's the site if you want to read about the event. http://www.runcim.org/data/MarHome.html HARRY WYETH
[USMA:16304] A holiday message
To those members of this forum in the United States: Happy Thanksgiving.
[USMA:16306] attitudes
I just read the October issue of English Today, an English language magazine. This issue contains a lot about English as a world language. On p. 11 I read something that says a lot about attitudes, which of course is important for metric too. A school superintendent in Arkansas refused to introduce foreign language teachting at the secondary level with this argument: If English was good enough for Jesus, it is good enough for you. Imperialists could claim: As Jesus did not use metric, the world should not use metric. And the condemnations of false weight and measure in the Bible name non-metric units of course. In the nineteenth century extreme Imperialists turned this into a condemnation of the metric system! Han
[USMA:16305] Re: milligrams per kilogram dosing
Mensch642 asked in USMA 16293: Joe, I surmise that the difference is LEADERSHIP! If President George W. Bush were to go before the Congress as he did post-9/11 and make the Ex Cathedra statement that the United States shall adopt SI, then it would be done. Most Americans would see it as a patriotic duty, were it only framed in a context of a leadership-based initiative. It is something that, for the people of the US, I would describe as inspiration. Something tells me that Canada launched its metrication program in such a context. Am I right? There is something in what Mensch642 says, but in reflecting on the question I think that a number of other factors were involved. Canadians have no illusions about being a World Power. Canada has a larger proportion of recent immigrants than the USA. A long list of organizations, that I listed in a previous posting, recommended that Canada should go metric. In 1970 Canada was afraid that it would be left behind if it did not go metric. India went metric in 1957, Britain started in 1965, Australia, South Africa and New Zealand had decided to change and the National Bureau of Standards had started an exhaustive study of A Metric America: A Decision Whose Time Has Come. Finally, Pierre Elliott Trudeau, francophone, world traveller and radical thinker, although not interested in engineering matters, became Prime Minister in 1967. He certainly gave his blessing to the move to go metric. Joseph B.Reid 17 Glebe Road West Toronto M5P 1C8 TEL. 416-486-6071
[USMA:16307] Mornin'!
X-News: picard.eurokom.ie local.usma:23255 From: Ezra Steinberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Irish road speed signs (was: Mornin'!) Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 09:11:17 -0800 Message-ID:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Nice to see you on this list this morning. Any bits of news on the road signage front? No good news, I'm afraid. I rang my contact in the Dept of Environment and got the same vague response. Effectively no progress has been made, as they are trying to work out funding and logistics. The Budget is due in about two weeks which should sort some of this out, so I'll try again after that. I must say it looks suspiciously like the flurry of committee activity was simply to get the deadline extended, and that they lost any sense of urgency when it was, but then I'm probably a little cynical by now. -- Tom Wade, EuroKom | E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (all domain mailers). Dale House| X400: g=tom;s=wade;o=eurokom;p=eurokom;a=eirmail400;c=ie 30, Dale Road | Tel: +353 (1) 278-7878 Stillorgan| Fax: +353 (1) 278-7879 Co Dublin | Disclaimer: This is not a disclaimer Ireland | Tip: Friends don't let friends do Unix !
[USMA:16308] Re: Wentworth letter
The kilocalorie is not power. Duncan -Original Message- From: Han Maenen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: U.S. Metric Association [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: November 22, 2001 01:44 Subject: [USMA:16298] Re: Wentworth letter The kilocalorie, used for heating tends to be replaced by the kilowatt, at least in Europe including the British Isles, where the BTU/h was/is used. kJ/h is wrong and deprecated as well, Han - Original Message - From: Barbara and/or Bill Hooper [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: U.S. Metric Association [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 7:15 PM Subject: [USMA:16285] Re: Wentworth letter Harry Wyeth commented: ... it will suffice if we can simply increase use of the big three, being the liter, the kilogram, and the kilometer (and their subdivisions). I don't think that the Big Three would quite suffice. I think we need to include degrees Celsius and watts and maybe (although a bit less important) kilopascals and kilojoules. Various combinations like kilometres per hour need to be included, also (and perhaps Wyeth meant to include them). These are all used in common everyday situations. (The lengthy list of examples is relegated to a footnote below.*) Regards, Bill Hooper = *Examples: snip Kilojoules will replace calories in dietetics. Heating and cooling systems will increasingly be measured in kilojoules per hour. (And the watt can be explained as nothing more than a joule per second.) snip
[USMA:16309] Re: Depressing...
You deserve an SI medal for raising the issue. Remember 'ask and ye shall receive'. I wish! D. -Original Message- From: Harry Wyeth [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: U.S. Metric Association [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: November 22, 2001 06:40 Subject: [USMA:16301] Depressing... I am going to run in the Sacramento International Marathon on December 2 here in California. I checked out the event on the web and found no reference to distances in km, so I sent a message asking why not. I received a nice reply which explained why (there IS a LOT of organizing that goes into putting on a major race such as this), and also mentioned that I was the FIRST person to make such an inquiry. That is depressing. Happy Thanksgiving to all. Here's the site if you want to read about the event. http://www.runcim.org/data/MarHome.html HARRY WYETH
[USMA:16310] Re: Depressing...
I ran a 5K this past summer. So as I'm running the course...they say ONE - 7 minutes 34 seconds. Then later they are like TWO! 14 minutes 58 seconds.And I'm like...what is that TWO?? They said MILES!I'm like...ok great. I'm running a 5 kilometer race, and they are intervalling in miles. Nice... At 12:47 11/22/01 -0500, Duncan Bath wrote: You deserve an SI medal for raising the issue. Remember 'ask and ye shall receive'. I wish! D. -Original Message- From: Harry Wyeth [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: U.S. Metric Association [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: November 22, 2001 06:40 Subject: [USMA:16301] Depressing... I am going to run in the Sacramento International Marathon on December 2 here in California. I checked out the event on the web and found no reference to distances in km, so I sent a message asking why not. I received a nice reply which explained why (there IS a LOT of organizing that goes into putting on a major race such as this), and also mentioned that I was the FIRST person to make such an inquiry. That is depressing. Happy Thanksgiving to all. Here's the site if you want to read about the event. http://www.runcim.org/data/MarHome.html HARRY WYETH
[USMA:16311] Re: attitudes
2001-11-22 Well, that is news to me! I had no idea English was spoken in Judea 2000 years ago. For some reason I thought it was Aramaic and Hebrew. And the educated spoke Latin and Greek. I should have known English was the language of choice then too. I'll bet even Adam and Eve spoke English. And the Neanderthal too! Well, if we are going to start using Bible measures, then we have to give up inches and feet and pounds too. We have to start using Biblical units. The Bible forbids following practices of non-believers. The units of British origin go back to Babylon and Babylon is consdered the symbol of sin in the Bible. Thus the British units are units of evildoers and sinners. Can you imagine the reaction of the BWMA if they were told the units of Britain are also the units of sinning Babylon? Is Vivian Linacre really Satan in disguise? We should have known this all along. John - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: U.S. Metric Association [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, 2001-11-22 11:26 Subject: [USMA:16306] attitudes I just read the October issue of English Today, an English language magazine. This issue contains a lot about English as a world language. On p. 11 I read something that says a lot about attitudes, which of course is important for metric too. A school superintendent in Arkansas refused to introduce foreign language teachting at the secondary level with this argument: If English was good enough for Jesus, it is good enough for you. Imperialists could claim: As Jesus did not use metric, the world should not use metric. And the condemnations of false weight and measure in the Bible name non-metric units of course. In the nineteenth century extreme Imperialists turned this into a condemnation of the metric system! Han
[USMA:16312] RE: CNN-fn
Adrian: That is not, in fact, CNN-fn. It's the CNN International feed being carried on the CNN-fn channel. Both the CNN channel and the CNN-fn channel carry the CNN International feed for an hour or two, late at night. I think CNN-fn carries it somewhat earlier than CNN. So, all those people you see with English (and, incidentally, Australian) accents are employees of CNN International. I believe they're based in London. Like you, I enjoy the SI usage. Bill Potts, CMS Roseville, CA http://metric1.org [SI Navigator] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Adrian Jadic Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2001 08:02 To: U.S. Metric Association Subject: [USMA:16254] CNN-fn In our (cable) area CNN-fn has a high rate of metric usage. I have to confess I have not heard yet a report using ifp. The temperatures are listed as °C/°F All anchors have a british accent but when talking about their location they refer to it as here at the CNN center. I don't know if they are in Atlanta or there is another center in UK. In any case, the only digestible network on the air. Has anybody in the US noticed the same for their CNN-fn channel? If so maybe we should start writing thank you letters. Adrian -- ___ Sign-up for your own FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup 1 cent a minute calls anywhere in the U.S.! http://www.getpennytalk.com/cgi-bin/adforward.cgi?p_key=RG9853KJurl=http:// www.getpennytalk.com
[USMA:16313] RE: Highway distance signage
Duncan: U.K. odometers are identical to American ones -- main odometer showing whole miles, trip odometer showing miles and tenths of miles. There may very well be some odometers calibrated according to your understanding, but I've yet to see one on any of the cars I've rented there in the past few years. Bill Potts, CMS Roseville, CA http://metric1.org [SI Navigator] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Duncan Bath Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2001 17:40 To: U.S. Metric Association Subject: [USMA:16271] Highway distance signage I understand that BWMA favours highway distance markings in miles and yards [rather than kilometres and metres]. That being the case, do I understand that odometers in U.K. vehicles have large dials for miles and smaller ones for yards? If so, reason suggests that would be inferior to odometers reading kilometres and tenths of kilometres. Have I missed something? Duncan DT Bath, 861 Kensington Dr., Peterborough ON K9J 6J8 (705)743-4297
[USMA:16315] Re: Beer in UK: Pint or 500mL?
On Thu, 22 Nov 2001 13:51:58 -0800, Brian J White [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Guys... I need some 'proof' that beer in the UK sold by the pint is actually 500mL. Is this true or not? False, unfortunately! Beer can be sold only by the pint (or 1/3rd pint, or 1/2 pint). It's illegal to sell any other way. Of course, you don't get the 'metric martyrs' complaining about that! Chris -- UK Metric Association: http://www.metric.org.uk/
[USMA:16316] Re: Beer in UK: Pint or 500mL?
2001-11-22 The beer is suppose to be 568 mL. Since the top of the glass contains foam, one might be close if one says the actual contents of the glass is 500 mL of liquid and 68 mL of foam. Can't say for sure if this is the case, but it sure sounds good. John - Original Message - From: Brian J White [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: U.S. Metric Association [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, 2001-11-22 16:51 Subject: [USMA:16314] Beer in UK: Pint or 500mL? Guys... I need some 'proof' that beer in the UK sold by the pint is actually 500mL. Is this true or not?
[USMA:16317] Re: Beer in UK: Pint or 500mL?
'Fraid not, Brian!! It's close, but it is actually 0.568 litres to a UK pint!! Yet you can buy 500 and 250ml bottles of lager or spirit and buy spirit from the optic in metric!! Madness!! Regards, Steve. [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Brian J White [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: U.S. Metric Association [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2001 9:51 PM Subject: [USMA:16314] Beer in UK: Pint or 500mL? Guys... I need some 'proof' that beer in the UK sold by the pint is actually 500mL. Is this true or not?
[USMA:16318] Re: Beer in UK: Pint or 500mL?
Chris and Brian: You can find the legal definition at: http://www.hmso.gov.uk/si/si1994/Uksi_19942867_en_1.htm. And, Brian, the legal definition (568.3 mL) is the one to which the pubs must adhere. The law is extremely strict in that respect. What Chris fails to mention is that it applies only to draft beer (and cider). Bottled beer and cider are pure SI. It's an infuriatingly stupid exception. Bill Potts, CMS Roseville, CA http://metric1.org [SI Navigator] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2001 14:15 To: U.S. Metric Association Subject: [USMA:16315] Re: Beer in UK: Pint or 500mL? On Thu, 22 Nov 2001 13:51:58 -0800, Brian J White [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Guys... I need some 'proof' that beer in the UK sold by the pint is actually 500mL. Is this true or not? False, unfortunately! Beer can be sold only by the pint (or 1/3rd pint, or 1/2 pint). It's illegal to sell any other way. Of course, you don't get the 'metric martyrs' complaining about that! Chris -- UK Metric Association: http://www.metric.org.uk/
[USMA:16319] Re: Beer in UK: Pint or 500mL?
John: The foam doesn't count. There must be one Imperial pint (or one half or one third) of actual liquid. A publican can be fined or can even have his/her license taken away for violating this law. Bill Potts, CMS Roseville, CA http://metric1.org [SI Navigator] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of kilopascal Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2001 14:20 To: U.S. Metric Association Subject: [USMA:16316] Re: Beer in UK: Pint or 500mL? 2001-11-22 The beer is suppose to be 568 mL. Since the top of the glass contains foam, one might be close if one says the actual contents of the glass is 500 mL of liquid and 68 mL of foam. Can't say for sure if this is the case, but it sure sounds good. John - Original Message - From: Brian J White [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: U.S. Metric Association [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, 2001-11-22 16:51 Subject: [USMA:16314] Beer in UK: Pint or 500mL? Guys... I need some 'proof' that beer in the UK sold by the pint is actually 500mL. Is this true or not?
[USMA:16320] Re: Beer in UK: Pint or 500mL?
It occurs to me that the U.K. government could earn the undying gratitude of the British beer drinker if it were to define a pub pint of 600 mL. Because it's only marginally larger than the Imperial pint, it's possible that, for competitive reasons, it might be sold for the same price. Bill Potts, CMS Roseville, CA http://metric1.org [SI Navigator] -Original Message- From: Bill Potts [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2001 14:27 To: U.S. Metric Association Subject: RE: [USMA:16316] Re: Beer in UK: Pint or 500mL? John: The foam doesn't count. There must be one Imperial pint (or one half or one third) of actual liquid. A publican can be fined or can even have his/her license taken away for violating this law. Bill Potts, CMS Roseville, CA http://metric1.org [SI Navigator] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of kilopascal Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2001 14:20 To: U.S. Metric Association Subject: [USMA:16316] Re: Beer in UK: Pint or 500mL? 2001-11-22 The beer is suppose to be 568 mL. Since the top of the glass contains foam, one might be close if one says the actual contents of the glass is 500 mL of liquid and 68 mL of foam. Can't say for sure if this is the case, but it sure sounds good. John - Original Message - From: Brian J White [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: U.S. Metric Association [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, 2001-11-22 16:51 Subject: [USMA:16314] Beer in UK: Pint or 500mL? Guys... I need some 'proof' that beer in the UK sold by the pint is actually 500mL. Is this true or not?
[USMA:16321] Latest (not very informative) news
Ruling delayed in metric case FIVE market traders must wait to learn whether they have won their High Court battle for the legal right to trade in pounds and ounces. Chris -- UK Metric Association: http://www.metric.org.uk/
