Re: [Vo]:Nissan electric car
A very good point Robin, only a small percentage of the refills will be done at a recharging station. Which makes their business prospects rather low BTW, so we should see significantly less of them on the roads... which makes me wonder if the concept can work at all? Michel 2009/8/6, mix...@bigpond.com mix...@bigpond.com: In reply to Jed Rothwell's message of Tue, 28 Jul 2009 10:34:40 -0400: Hi, [snip] I wrote: It takes quite a while to recharge with 110 V. 14 hours. With a 440 V outlet you get an 80% charge in just 26 minutes. Still not as fast as refilling a gasoline tank, as Mike Carrell pointed out. That problem is addressed with the battery swap-out plan advocated by the company Better Place http://www.betterplace.com/ The reason gas cars need to be able to be refilled in a few minutes is because you have to go to a gas station and stand around while it's happening. When you recharge the car at home that is no longer a problem. All you care about is that it's recharged by tomorrow morning. In fact recharging at home is less of a hassle than having to go to a gas station, and doesn't take as long, because all you have to do is plug it in. You don't need to wait while it fills, and you don't need to stand in a queue to pay for it (assuming you don't pay at the pump). Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/Project.html
Re: [Vo]:Casimir force at slab edges
Mauro Lacy wrote: Stephen A. Lawrence wrote: Mauro Lacy wrote: Stephen A. Lawrence wrote: Frank Roarty wrote: s identified this incoming email as possible spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or labelNo, but I'll read about it. Reciprocal space sounds like a mirror space to me. By example, using the fourth dimension, you can invert a tridimensional sphere without breaking it. That is, you can put the inside out and viceversa, through a rotation over a fourth dimensional space, in the same way as you can invert a bidimensional figure by rotating it in a three dimensional space. But you can't -- not just by rotating it. Hi Of course you can't do that in three dimensions. That's the whole point of using a fourth. I was drawing an analogy. The bidimensional equivalent will be the following (please excuse my ascii art). Suppose you have an asymetrical figure, like to one below: original figure: -- || | | | | | | | | - You're talking about flipping chirality. You can do that, of course -- for a 2d figure you can do it in 3d, for a 3d figure you can do it in 4d. A right-hand thread screw can be flipped to a left-hand thread screw with a rotation through the fourth dimension. But you can't turn a circle inside out by flipping through the third dimension, and you can't turn a sphere inside out by flipping through the fourth dimension, as you proposed. You need to do a major stretch on the object as well. To see this really clearly, don't use a spherical shell, as you proposed; use a solid sphere (like the Earth, or a golf ball). What do you get if you turn it inside out by some operation in the fourth dimension? You're right! I erroneously thought that chirality flip in four dimensions was analogous to turning the inside out (because when you turn a glove inside out, by example, you obtain its mirror image, i.e. you can put that reversed glove in your other hand) So, to summarize: a (semi) rotation through a higher dimension will produce the mirror image of the object. I still think that this is not the complete process, i.e. that something more fundamental is changed, but I have to think about it. Well, I was thinking and studying, and in the operation I'm proposing you must invert colors, too. You can think of it as a (semi) rotation plus color invertion. Each color is changed to its complement color. Probably is better not no think about it literally, but symbolically, with color invertion representing change in axial direction. So, the more fundamental quality that is also changed is axial flow direction(from inward to outward, and vice versa) To be able to see this, you must allow relationships in space to remain fluid, not fixed. It is also convenient to imagine everything with its opposite. So a blue point must be seen as not only a blue point, but a blue point surrounded by a totality of red space. A light (outwards) radiating point must be seen as a light radiating point surrounded by a sphere of inward radiating darkness. So, the opposite of your golf ball is a spherical void of the diameter of the golf ball, surrounded by an infinite extension of golf ball material. Again, if you allow the spatial relations to remain fluid(matter doesn't really exists, it is only movement), and think in opposites, this is easier to visualize, and assimilate. Please note that when a vortex (a rotating radial flow) forms, the first thing to appear on the other side(of a pressure boundary, through a hole or connection between sides) is the first one to enter on this side; so on the other side the center becomes the periphery, and vice versa. Mathematically, or topologically, we can define a new operation, or a set of operations, equivalent to the sum of a rotation plus a radial flow direction(i.e. color) invertion. So, a right handed inward vortex, will transform under this operation into a left handed _outward_ vortex. I don't know yet, but maybe this operation or set of operations can then be tried to attempt to reconcile Dirac equations with the fourth dimension, as Jones Beene suggested in a related thread, or (better said) to try to express the form of Dirac equations in four dimensions. Mauro
[Vo]:I am happy I got to make a last minute change in my paper
I have been watching some CD's on physics by B.? Schumacher. On the last disk he addressed what he felt was the most fundamental quantum mystery. It is; The nature of the quantum measurment I have been saying thate my Constants of the Motion theory has to do with the energy flow between quantum states. It hit me; Measurements require a flow of energy. I was very happy to have a last chance to add the sentence, The therom describes the process of quantum measurement This litte change in wording?has a big change in scope. I am happy with and waiting for the Sept addition of Infinite Energy. Frank Z
Re: [Vo]:Nissan electric car
Robin van Spaandonk wrote: The reason gas cars need to be able to be refilled in a few minutes is because you have to go to a gas station and stand around while it's happening. When you recharge the car at home that is no longer a problem. Ah, but when you are going a long distance, on a trip, waiting for hours would be a non-starter. Especially when the range is only 100 miles. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Nissan electric car
First, I think Congress should convert all of Hawaii over to electric vehicles. Maybe Puerto Rico, too. Who needs a 300 mile range? Unfortunately, this looks like a commuter car for rich folks like Ed Begley. Other than that, they gotta get the price down for California, especially in this economy. I could see homes with two cars: one for long trips (gas) and one for commute (electric).
[Vo]:The Abduction Paradigm
Steven Vincent Johnson wrote: Sometimes I just wish it was easier for us to accept the notion that we aren't evil, that we have not fallen from grace, but unfortunately, the fall from grace is a strong belief for which significant portions of our society appear to be lost in the drama that makes it so titillating to experience over and over. Steven Vincent Johnson also wrote: From a biological perspective, instigating a genetic reintroduction / diversification program makes perfect sense. Introducing increased genetic diversity within a race of homo sapien-like humanoids that may have allowed its own genetic heritage over eons to become too homogenous is likely to increase the chances of its continued survival. Hi All, 8-6-09 On Tuesday, 7-28-09, I visited the Cleveland Museum of Natural History; the Darwin exhibits were outstanding. One of the best was an interactive display examining the effects of selection for a larger brain. This tended to require a larger skull, which then required larger hips to birth. But if the hips get larger and larger, the homonid can't walk -- very negative for natural selection. So something has to give. In this case, there was selection for a smaller face so that the face would not take up so much of the skull. But the smaller face resulted in problems with our 32 teeth: There was not enough room for the third molars (the wisdom teeth) -- in general a mess with braces a tooth extractions. This is not a fall from grace or original sin; but it may feel like it. There may be some selective advantage for an ability to commit genocide on hominids (one thinks of William Golding's The Inheritors); and we were so shocked whan Jane Goodall found that chimps had the same talent. This is almost funny, except now we have atomic weapons and germ warfare. Genocide probably does reduce genetic diversity; but the more devastating pinches have been acts of G_d, such as the eruption of Toba 70,000 years ago or the Tunguska-type event that probably plunged the Northern hemisphere into the Younger Dryas cold spell 12,900 years ago and destroyed the Clovis culture. These things are unhappy events from the viewpoint of the victims, but they merely illustrate how easily such a cobbled-together species as ouselves could join the 99% of all species that no longer exist. Jack Smith
Re: [Vo]:Nissan electric car
From Mr. Zell: First, I think Congress should convert all of Hawaii over to electric vehicles. Maybe Puerto Rico, too. Who needs a 300 mile range? Unfortunately, this looks like a commuter car for rich folks like Ed Begley. Other than that, they gotta get the price down for California, especially in this economy. I could see homes with two cars: one for long trips (gas) and one for commute (electric). I agree. I would also add: The concept of owning two cars, one electric for most of the short range trips, plus a gas version for long-range trips might be considered the American Dream, but I wonder how many Americans will soon be able to afford such extravagance. The laws of supply demand combined with the fact that the global population (all five/six plus billion of us) are striving to become more affluent inevitably translates to increased scarcity of goods for everyone in the form of higher prices. It might make more economic sense to continue making monthly down payments on the city commuter electric car, and then simply rent the long rang gas guzzler for those summer trips out west to Newport, Oregon. Better yet, it might be even cheaper to take the Amtrak out west and rent a car at the vacation spot. Unfortunately, significant portions of Amtrak sorely needs federal funding to upgrade their passenger cars and track system. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Nissan electric car
Chris Zell wrote: First, I think Congress should convert all of Hawaii over to electric vehicles. Maybe Puerto Rico, too. Who needs a 300 mile range? Mandating the kind of cars people can drive is wrong, IMO; that's what got us the CAFE law and that's what led directly to the SUV craze. Incentives, great; heavy tax on gas, great (sorry, Kyle, I still think that, despite your valid objections); stuff that makes people decide on their own to switch to electric, great; but mandating it makes people start looking for loopholes, and what they seek, they (often) find. Two examples: Boosting the price of cigarettes with outrageous taxes makes folks think twice about smoking so much, and is reflected in the smoking rate, which has dropped (which was the original goal). Banning boozing in public makes people put their bottles inside paper bags (which was not the original goal). Unfortunately, this looks like a commuter car for rich folks like Ed Begley. Other than that, they gotta get the price down for California, especially in this economy. I could see homes with two cars: one for long trips (gas) and one for commute (electric). That's what we've got. (FWIW, you don't have to bust the budget to do this. The newer of our two cars is 13 years old. The other one, which is the electric conversion, is old enough to walk into a bar and order a drink. Modern cars from the 80's and 90's hold up a lot better than the junk they were making back in the 50's and 60's.)
[Vo]:Spooky:Cage/Knowingplot is 1824 Mormonism/The Abduction Rejectee Paradigm
~Disclaimer//I'm NOT a Mormon~ In 1824 Mormon 'prophet' young Joseph Smith basically claimed to be an 'abductee.' He told a 'Revealed World History' that was hauntingly nearly EXACTLY the plot of Nicholas Cage's/Knowing. The indication was that we stem from an advanced race of 'terra-formers' who in a CENTRAL STAGING SOLAR SYSTEM first terra-form planets, and then transdimentionally transport them to, place them in the 'goldy-locks' zone of an appropriately evolved sun/star system. This is WHAT THEY DO; and being spun-off from THEIR DNA MATRIX it's NO HAPPENSTANCE that the FIRST WE THINK OF when we realize that we JUST MIGHT NOT BE CONFINED to our planet is that we begin PLANNING TO TERRA-FORM EVERYTHING IN SIGHT ! ! !--duh; maybe not so ODD a THING THAT. . . Now this is all pretty exotic stuff for some kid from 1824. Needless to )this DID NOT play well with most of the neighbors and the 'religiously bent skewed and 'screwed-up' the various tangential socio-religious(quasi-hysterical) events/devlopments that followed WITH the NEW CONVERTS and also TO THEM. But SUDDENLY-INSPIRED NEW RELIGIONS were COMMON STUFF in those days with everybody and their hound-dog creating a 'new' religion such as Jehovah's Witnesses, 7th Day Adventists, yadda yadda, ad nauseum. BUT WE ARE LUCKIER in that the 'silver screen' and the WORLD WIDE WEBB allow our psycho/imaginary/creative/remote-viewing FLIGHTS of IMAGERY preclude the MORASS OF HYPER PARANOID RELIGIOUS DOGMATISM and MEGALOMANIACLE PEDANTRY. . . BUT SOMETHING 'EXOTIC,' in the 1800s, like now since the 60's, was in the air/ether/planetary-psycosphere. And the SWELLING OCCURANCE of SYNCHRONOSLY-INSPIRED movies, books, and 'www' relative to these 'exotic'/not-now-so-exotic/even curiously 'anciently familiar' psi-fi-themes; is either good-old time religion paranoid MASS HYSTERIA (or) the PLANETARY GESTALT//GALACTIC HOMONID-SYMBIOSIS is waking up. And here I'm following upon the theme here. AND ALSO CURIOUSLY Nick Cage's//Knowing seems to CONNECT/DOVE-TAIL(maybe intentionally by the writers) in rather smooth synchronicity with Richard Gere's//MOTHMAN PROPHESIES-go figure. . . . BUT EVEN FROM A quasi-religious/Buddist-like interpretations Knowing's advanced godlike/angel-like/mothman-like beings BURNT-OFF there more 'primitive' human guise before 'going-on' and the inference is that sooner or later our whole gestalt-planetary sub-family of 'humanity' will have to to the same. BUT REALLY if you accept 'life' as a indestructabe seriess- of transdimensionally-phased 'incarnations'(not necessarily time-linear) from a mini-gestalt 'over-pool' within a MULTI-DIMENSIONAL/MULTI-UNIVERSE overpool-(and I do)- then: IN SHORT: THE BEAT GOES ON BABY!~;-) And in every subsequent of 'onwardly-evolving' incarnation it would seem to follow that the 'imagery' of BURNING off of the TROUBLING CIRCUMSTANCIAL 'DROSS' of the 'life-departed' FOR THE PURE INTERNAL-MORE CHILD-LIKE essence that SURVIVES INDESTRUCTABLY is thus prepared to ENGAGE THE NEXT PLANETARY/or even NEW UNIVERSE of the MYRIAD-MULTIVERSES of VIRTUALLY ENDLESS INDESTRUCTABLE EXISTENCE. OR SHIT JUST HAPPENS!~;-) Ciao Comrades!//Harbach-O'Sullivan From: orionwo...@charter.net To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: RE: [Vo]:OT: The Abduction Rejectee Paradigm Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 20:53:53 -0500 From Mr. Zell: Apparently, there are claims of some potential abductees being rejected due to age or health. http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601086sid=aILLOMP8rU34refer=latin_america I can't get a job interview and now, even ET's aren't hiring. This interdimensional age discrimination is just wrong. More evidence of discrimination comes from Brazil in that famous Boas case in which a farmer got abducted and was compelled to engage in coitus with an attractive alien female. I guess I consider it a credible account since regardless of how strange or bizarre or miraculously scary a situation is, some of us guys still are moved by a Primal Urge above all else. The same hottie ( or her clone?) shows up in that book, Hair of the Alien, along with a naked Asian woman. The guy wakes up and finds a long white hair wrapped around his Johnson. DNA sez it's human but very, very weird human. Read the book if you think I'm kidding. Big difference from Greys poking you with long needles, I'd say. If any of you get taken this way, I'd get loud about it and complain, Hey, I want the old way! ( a Barbarella reference). In summary, I'm willing to probe but not be probed. Hope the wife will understand. I did it for my planet. It's a dirty job, but someone's gotta do it. They will name high schools after you! ;-) I hope Mr. Storms is lurking close by because I suspect he might be amused to know that I would concur with Mr. Zell in the sense that the famous
[Vo]:Spooky:CageKnowingis1824 Mormonism/The Abduction Rejectee Paradigm
~Disclaimer//I'm NOT a Mormon~ In 1824 Mormon 'prophet' young Joseph Smith basically claimed to be an 'abductee.' He told a 'Revealed World History' that was hauntingly nearly EXACTLY the plot of Nicholas Cage's/Knowing. The indication was that we stem from an advanced race of 'terra-formers' who in a CENTRAL STAGING SOLAR SYSTEM first terra-form planets, and then transdimentionally transport them to, place them in the 'goldy-locks' zone of an appropriately evolved sun/star system. This is WHAT THEY DO; and being spun-off from THEIR DNA MATRIX it's NO HAPPENSTANCE that the FIRST WE THINK OF when we realize that we JUST MIGHT NOT BE CONFINED to our planet is that we begin PLANNING TO TERRA-FORM EVERYTHING IN SIGHT ! ! !--duh; maybe not so ODD a THING THAT. . . Now this is all pretty exotic stuff for some kid from 1824. Needless to )this DID NOT play well with most of the neighbors and the 'religiously bent skewed and 'screwed-up' the various tangential socio-religious(quasi-hysterical) events/devlopments that followed WITH the NEW CONVERTS and also TO THEM. But SUDDENLY-INSPIRED NEW RELIGIONS were COMMON STUFF in those days with everybody and their hound-dog creating a 'new' religion such as Jehovah's Witnesses, 7th Day Adventists, yadda yadda, ad nauseum. BUT WE ARE LUCKIER in that the 'silver screen' and the WORLD WIDE WEBB allow our psycho/imaginary/creative/remote-viewing FLIGHTS of IMAGERY preclude the MORASS OF HYPER PARANOID RELIGIOUS DOGMATISM and MEGALOMANIACLE PEDANTRY. . . BUT SOMETHING 'EXOTIC,' in the 1800s, like now since the 60's, was in the air/ether/planetary-psycosphere. And the SWELLING OCCURANCE of SYNCHRONOSLY-INSPIRED movies, books, and 'www' relative to these 'exotic'/not-now-so-exotic/even curiously 'anciently familiar' psi-fi-themes; is either good-old time religion paranoid MASS HYSTERIA (or) the PLANETARY GESTALT//GALACTIC HOMONID-SYMBIOSIS is waking up. And here I'm following upon the theme here. AND ALSO CURIOUSLY Nick Cage's//Knowing seems to CONNECT/DOVE-TAIL(maybe intentionally by the writers) in rather smooth synchronicity with Richard Gere's//MOTHMAN PROPHESIES-go figure. . . . BUT EVEN FROM A quasi-religious/Buddist-like interpretations Knowing's advanced godlike/angel-like/mothman-like beings BURNT-OFF there more 'primitive' human guise before 'going-on' and the inference is that sooner or later our whole gestalt-planetary sub-family of 'humanity' will have to to the same. BUT REALLY if you accept 'life' as a indestructabe seriess- of transdimensionally-phased 'incarnations'(not necessarily time-linear) from a mini-gestalt 'over-pool' within a MULTI-DIMENSIONAL/MULTI-UNIVERSE overpool-(and I do)- then: IN SHORT: THE BEAT GOES ON BABY!~;-) And in every subsequent of 'onwardly-evolving' incarnation it would seem to follow that the 'imagery' of BURNING off of the TROUBLING CIRCUMSTANCIAL 'DROSS' of the 'life-departed' FOR THE PURE INTERNAL-MORE CHILD-LIKE essence that SURVIVES INDESTRUCTABLY is thus prepared to ENGAGE THE NEXT PLANETARY/or even NEW UNIVERSE of the MYRIAD-MULTIVERSES of VIRTUALLY ENDLESS INDESTRUCTABLE EXISTENCE. OR SHIT JUST HAPPENS!~;-) Ciao Comrades!//Harbach-O'Sullivan From: orionwo...@charter.net To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: RE: [Vo]:OT: The Abduction Rejectee Paradigm Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 20:53:53 -0500 From Mr. Zell: Apparently, there are claims of some potential abductees being rejected due to age or health. http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601086sid=aILLOMP8rU34refer=latin_america I can't get a job interview and now, even ET's aren't hiring. This interdimensional age discrimination is just wrong. More evidence of discrimination comes from Brazil in that famous Boas case in which a farmer got abducted and was compelled to engage in coitus with an attractive alien female. I guess I consider it a credible account since regardless of how strange or bizarre or miraculously scary a situation is, some of us guys still are moved by a Primal Urge above all else. The same hottie ( or her clone?) shows up in that book, Hair of the Alien, along with a naked Asian woman. The guy wakes up and finds a long white hair wrapped around his Johnson. DNA sez it's human but very, very weird human. Read the book if you think I'm kidding. Big difference from Greys poking you with long needles, I'd say. If any of you get taken this way, I'd get loud about it and complain, Hey, I want the old way! ( a Barbarella reference). In summary, I'm willing to probe but not be probed. Hope the wife will understand. I did it for my planet. It's a dirty job, but someone's gotta do it. They will name high schools after you! ;-) I hope Mr. Storms is lurking close by because I suspect he might be amused to know that I would concur with Mr. Zell in the sense that the famous Antonio Boas
Re: [Vo]:Nissan electric car
In reply to Michel Jullian's message of Thu, 6 Aug 2009 10:01:13 +0200: Hi, [snip] A very good point Robin, only a small percentage of the refills will be done at a recharging station. Which makes their business prospects rather low BTW, so we should see significantly less of them on the roads... which makes me wonder if the concept can work at all? As others have said, electric cars are currently not suited to long trips. That's why they make ideal second cars. Cars used for commuting /or shopping. Good for start/stop city driving, where they help reduce the pollution. BTW these needs describe most driving km, so they would have a considerable impact. And as the market grows, the price of the vehicles will come down (further boosting the sales), and also the range will go up as batteries improve with the investment made possible by the initial sales. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/Project.html
Re: [Vo]:Nissan electric car
Frankly, I would rather have a hybrid that could go 50 miles without using the engine, but with the ability to go much further without requiring the expense of two cars or having to look desperately for a charging station as the meter goes into the red zone late at night. The idea of a pure electric makes no sense at all, at least until the charging stations are common and can charge or swap batteries in a few minutes. This won't be the case for years. I'm afraid the wish for perfection has once again led people down the path to eventual bankruptcy. Ed On Aug 6, 2009, at 3:50 PM, mix...@bigpond.com wrote: In reply to Michel Jullian's message of Thu, 6 Aug 2009 10:01:13 +0200: Hi, [snip] A very good point Robin, only a small percentage of the refills will be done at a recharging station. Which makes their business prospects rather low BTW, so we should see significantly less of them on the roads... which makes me wonder if the concept can work at all? As others have said, electric cars are currently not suited to long trips. That's why they make ideal second cars. Cars used for commuting / or shopping. Good for start/stop city driving, where they help reduce the pollution. BTW these needs describe most driving km, so they would have a considerable impact. And as the market grows, the price of the vehicles will come down (further boosting the sales), and also the range will go up as batteries improve with the investment made possible by the initial sales. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/Project.html
RE: [Vo]:OT: The Abduction Rejectee Paradigm
From: Mr. Storms According to David Jacob's work, the abductees run in families. I suppose some random catch and release might happen, but this does not seem to be the prevailing method. People who are abducted are also caught repeatedly and re-examined. The aliens seem to be interested in following particular genetic lines from one generation to the next. This is exactly how our scientists carry out genetic research in our laboratories, so this approach is not surprising. I suspect both Jacob and I Hopkins would concur with this hypothesis. It's a plausible explanation within the context of our current scientific paradigms. Playing the devil's advocate, the fact that there does seem to be an obvious cross-generation genetic component suggests the possibility that the genes themselves are primarily responsible for allowing such experiences to manifest within certain individuals. IMO, such a hypothesis is just as reasonable an explanation as compared to conjecturing that the experiences are generated by encounters with extraterrestrial aliens whom it is alleged are interested in particular DNA lineages. I'll say it once again for the record, my conjecture does not mean that such experiences should be considered any less valid, certainly not to the experiencer. I suspect our current understanding of what is considered valid reality is likely to undergo radical changes within the next century or two. Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
RE: [Vo]:The Abduction Paradigm
From Mr. Smith: Hi All, 8-6-09 On Tuesday, 7-28-09, I visited the Cleveland Museum of Natural History; the Darwin exhibits were outstanding. One of the best was an interactive display examining the effects of selection for a larger brain. This tended to require a larger skull, which then required larger hips to birth. But if the hips get larger and larger, the homonid can't walk -- very negative for natural selection. So something has to give. In this case, there was selection for a smaller face so that the face would not take up so much of the skull. But the smaller face resulted in problems with our 32 teeth: There was not enough room for the third molars (the wisdom teeth) -- in general a mess with braces a tooth extractions. This is not a fall from grace or original sin; but it may feel like it. Everyone in my family was born with wisdom teeth, except me. The dentist still ended up extracting teeth because I didn't have enough real estate. I must be one of those mysterious planned intelligently-designed throw-forwards. I wonder how much I can milk my advanced genetic heritage for. ;-) There may be some selective advantage for an ability to commit genocide on hominids (one thinks of William Golding's The Inheritors); and we were so shocked whan Jane Goodall found that chimps had the same talent. This is almost funny, except now we have atomic weapons and germ warfare. Genocide probably does reduce genetic diversity; but the more devastating pinches have been acts of G_d, such as the eruption of Toba 70,000 years ago or the Tunguska-type event that probably plunged the Northern hemisphere into the Younger Dryas cold spell 12,900 years ago and destroyed the Clovis culture. These things are unhappy events from the viewpoint of the victims, but they merely illustrate how easily such a cobbled-together species as ouselves could join the 99% of all species that no longer exist. Natural Acts of God may have been responsible for most genetic pinches in our planet's past. However, due to our specie's propensity to develop better clubs and spears I suspect we may soon give Mother Nature a good run for her money. Regards, Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com
Re: [Vo]:OT: The Abduction Rejectee Paradigm
On Aug 6, 2009, at 5:32 PM, OrionWorks - Steven Vincent Johnson wrote: From: Mr. Storms According to David Jacob's work, the abductees run in families. I suppose some random catch and release might happen, but this does not seem to be the prevailing method. People who are abducted are also caught repeatedly and re-examined. The aliens seem to be interested in following particular genetic lines from one generation to the next. This is exactly how our scientists carry out genetic research in our laboratories, so this approach is not surprising. I suspect both Jacob and I Hopkins would concur with this hypothesis. It’s a plausible explanation within the context of our current scientific paradigms. Playing the devil’s advocate, the fact that there does seem to be an obvious cross-generation genetic component suggests the possibility that the genes themselves are primarily responsible for allowing such experiences to manifest within certain individuals. IMO, such a hypothesis is just as reasonable an explanation as compared to conjecturing that the experiences are generated by encounters with extraterrestrial aliens whom it is alleged are interested in particular DNA lineages. Come now, Steven, I don't know about your kids, but mine are not similar enough to have the same nonreal experiences. While similar vivid hallucinations run in families, the occasions are very rare. Besides, you ignore all the physical evidence that is consistent with the claimed events. I’ll say it once again for the record, my conjecture does not mean that such experiences should be considered any less valid, certainly not to the experiencer. Either the allies and their claimed behavior and supposed intentions are real, or the claims are only in the imagination, as you argue. To me, the former is important and the latter possibility is trivial. Granted, some people suffer from hallucinations, which are only important to the people who have the experience and to people who study brain function. On the other hand, the reality of alien visitation is important to everyone. I suspect our current understanding of what is considered valid reality is likely to undergo radical changes within the next century or two. I expect this is true. Of course, the UFO issue is not the only one that is being debated these days and will result in significant changes in popular belief. Popular belief is usually many years behind what is known by people who make an effort to understand reality. Why not get a head start on this process? Ed Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:OT: The Abduction Rejectee Paradigm
On Aug 6, 2009, at 7:11 PM, OrionWorks - Steven Vincent Johnson wrote: From: Mr. Storms According to David Jacob's work, the abductees run in families. I suppose some random catch and release might happen, but this does not seem to be the prevailing method. People who are abducted are also caught repeatedly and re-examined. The aliens seem to be interested in following particular genetic lines from one generation to the next. This is exactly how our scientists carry out genetic research in our laboratories, so this approach is not surprising. I suspect both Jacob and I Hopkins would concur with this hypothesis. It’s a plausible explanation within the context of our current scientific paradigms. Playing the devil’s advocate, the fact that there does seem to be an obvious cross-generation genetic component suggests the possibility that the genes themselves are primarily responsible for allowing such experiences to manifest within certain individuals. IMO, such a hypothesis is just as reasonable an explanation as compared to conjecturing that the experiences are generated by encounters with extraterrestrial aliens whom it is alleged are interested in particular DNA lineages. Come now, Steven, I don't know about your kids, but mine are not similar enough to have the same nonreal experiences. While similar vivid hallucinations run in families, the occasions are very rare. Besides, you ignore all the physical evidence that is consistent with the claimed events. I would appreciate a clarification on what you are referring to when it is stated there is consistent physical evidence. I just want to be on the same page with you should we continue to ponder this complex issue, particularly since definitions of physical evidence can possibly differ in both subtle and profound ways between individuals. Can you give some examples? The physical evidence consists of parts of space crafts as described by trusted observers, objects removed from abductees as documented by doctors, changes in soil composition and depressions at landing sites, and physical changes in the eye as found by doctors. Identical descriptions of craft and devices by completely independent observers are also important. If we were talking about a normal crime scene, the law would have no trouble coming to a conclusion about what had happened. I’ll say it once again for the record, my conjecture does not mean that such experiences should be considered any less valid, certainly not to the experiencer. Either the allies and their claimed behavior and supposed intentions are real, or the claims are only in the imagination, as you argue. To me, the former is important and the latter possibility is trivial. Granted, some people suffer from hallucinations, which are only important to the people who have the experience and to people who study brain function. On the other hand, the reality of alien visitation is important to everyone. I am surprised to see you seemingly position your conjecture on this matter within such a narrow spectrum, a black white scenario of an either / or position. I don't want to put words in your mouth, but quoting you- the possibility that the genes themselves are primarily responsible for allowing such experiences to manifest within certain individuals. IMO, such a hypothesis is just as reasonable an explanation as compared to conjecturing that the experiences are generated by encounters with extraterrestrial aliens whom it is alleged are interested in particular DNA lineages. Your comment says to me that you separate the real event of an actual encounter with an alien from an imagined encounter. Reality is really a black and white issue in this case. Humans are very good at creating an image of reality in their minds. The issue is always how close is this image to the real world. In the case of events, such as a claim for abduction, either it happened or it was imagined. There is nothing in between as far as I'm concerned. Also, the issue having importance to me is not how many claims are real and how many are imagined. If any are real, this is hugely important. I am also under the impression that you perceive my evolving UFO Abduction Paradigm as being trivial because it seems to suggest that UFO abductees are simply suffering from something akin to vivid imaginations. If that is the case, and please correct me if I've misinterpreted your perceptions on this matter, I would have to say that you have either misunderstood or you are deliberately ignoring the underlying ramifications behind the hypothesis. Personally, I would hardly consider the experiencer paradigm trivial by any stretch of the imagination. What is trivial to me is an imagined abduction. I agree, if imagined abductions were common, that fact would be interesting but not as important as a real abduction. FWIW, I have also never, never, EVER, argued that
Re: [Vo]:Nissan electric car
In reply to Edmund Storms's message of Thu, 6 Aug 2009 16:08:13 -0600: Hi, [snip] Frankly, I would rather have a hybrid that could go 50 miles without using the engine, but with the ability to go much further without requiring the expense of two cars or having to look desperately for a charging station as the meter goes into the red zone late at night. The idea of a pure electric makes no sense at all, at least until the charging stations are common and can charge or swap batteries in a few minutes. This won't be the case for years. I'm afraid the wish for perfection has once again led people down the path to eventual bankruptcy. Ed Horses for courses. There is room for both. Those who had an EV1 were apparently quite happy with it, despite the limited range. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/Project.html
