Re: [Vo]:Lewan book
There is a lot of great stuff in this book. The account is accurate as far as I know. You never can tell where the truth lies with Rossi, but this is pretty much what I have heard from various people. Lewan downplays the severity of some of the incidents, such as NASA's visit to Rossi. The parts about Rossi's long-suffering friends and supporters are true. The parts about long-suffering, heroic Jim Dunn are true. The book makes Mike Melich and me look bad in places with regard to Defkalion. We were too trusting. Oh well. They had some impressive people and equipment at first. They seemed promising. As far as I can tell, they are are now a farce. The impressive people left, 'cause they weren't paid. It's that money thing again, and the old credit rating problem. Hot air is no substitute for cash. Mats Lewan has guts publishing this, and his earlier reports. He must have been attacked by many people. The parts about the 1-MW reactor test are well known to readers here. Lewan describes his own sense of confusion at the fact that the test was inconclusive. Even when the test was underway I could see it was yet another inconclusive non-demonstration. I think I know why Rossi usually does unconvincing demonstrations. Lewan quotes me speculating about this, and then he says Rossi confirmed what I said. From the book: Jed: Edison knew he had solved the problem, but he had a lot of work left, [so] more intellectual property [was] there for the taking. Low hanging fruit. He did not want his competition to take him too seriously. On the other hand, he needed more big bucks from the investors and banks. It was a delicate balancing act: how to keep up the excitement while triggering the lowest possible level of serious competition. Rossi is doing exactly the same thing. I recognize that is his strategy. He is hardly keeping it secret. Countless inventors and companies have done this. It does not mystify me at all. To people unfamiliar with business it looks crazy. Lewan: I asked Rossi about the matter and he replied bluntly that it was true. (Actually, I knew this was his strategy because Rossi and I discussed the matter and he sort-of, kind-of, grudgingly acknowledged it is. Mike McKubre also recognized this. As I said, it wasn't like Rossi was keeping it a secret.) This strategy is getting old! Still it seems to have worked for him. He has financial backing now, and yet 99.99% of the world thinks he is a crazy or a scam artist. I hope the Swedes have done a careful, totally convincing job this time. It is about time for this strategy to come to an end. Edison eventually drew it to close with the incandescent light. He used the most effective method imaginable. He puts lights up in his his workshop in Menlo Park, NJ, and strung them on polls outside. People started coming from miles around to see them in the winter evenings and nights. It must have been an extraordinary sight for people who had never seen anything as bright as an electric light. The railroads had to schedule extra trains from New York to accommodate the crowds. The naysayers finally shut up. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Lewan book
No proof and no telling of who were those people. Only the frustrated tantrum. Also, Edison knew how to issue a patent. Rossi is lost. 2014-04-11 16:42 GMT-03:00 Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com: The impressive people left, 'cause they weren't paid. -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com
Re: [Vo]:Lewan book
There are some controversies described in the book which strike me as comical. They remind me of debates over whether Shakespeare wrote his plays or whether it was another man of the same name. For example, Lewan describes Rossi's claim that he had a factory in Florida where they manufactured components for the 1 MW reactor. Some people say he did not have a factory because they could not find it. Rossi claims he disguised it by making it look like it was manufacturing some conventional equipment. The truth or falsity of this claim does not make the slightest bit of difference. Maybe the factory was not in Florida. Maybe it was in New England or Poland, or Palmero. Who cares where it is? Here is what we know. Someone manufactured more than 50 of those square reactors that went into the 1 MW reactor. Rossi could not have made them by himself. He is a workaholic but even he could not pull that off. Somebody, somewhere made all that equipment. I do not see why it matters who it was or where they live. I do not see why he would lie about the factory being in Florida. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Lewan book
Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.com wrote: No proof and no telling of who were those people. I know who they were. I have photos of them and their equipment. I have not finished the book. I do not know if it describes the people at Defkalion. Only the frustrated tantrum. By who? Also, Edison knew how to issue a patent. Rossi is lost. That's true. Rossi sure does not know how to apply for a patent! (Apply; not issue. The Patent Office issues.) For his sake, I hope he managed to write a better application while this one was pending. - Jed
RE: [Vo]:Lewan book
From: Jed Rothwell I do not see why he would lie about the factory being in Florida. Let me guess. No business license so competitors cannot find him, no OSHA to deal with, undocumented workers, wages paid out of pocket, taxes avoided, corners cut . the list goes on. The underground economy merges into RD . that kinda sums it up.
Re: [Vo]:Lewan book
Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: I do not see why he would lie about the factory being in Florida. Let me guess. No business license so competitors cannot find him, no OSHA to deal with, undocumented workers, wages paid out of pocket, taxes avoided, corners cut ... the list goes on. The underground economy merges into RD ... that kinda sums it up. Ha, ha! I like that: The underground economy merges into RD. That would fit the pattern of Rossi's earlier ventures with Petrodragon. That's the Italian way to do business. Sure, the factory could be anywhere. My point is that it had to be somewhere, not nowhere. So who cares where? - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Lewan book
2014-04-11 16:58 GMT-03:00 Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com: Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.com wrote: I know who they were. I have photos of them and their equipment. Lier. By who? You - Jed -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com
Re: [Vo]:Lewan book
Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.com wrote: I know who they were. I have photos of them and their equipment. Lier. By who? Read the book and you will see. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Lewan book
Jed, I understand that you are well informed about Rossi and Defkalion. I am glad that you confirm what I read on and between the lines. Here are a few comments. Let me say I think you nailed it when you said he is italian. I would say he is a very unusual Italian as he is hard working. That there is no border between the truth and a good story that is just as it is. They say we have the government we deserve and you just have to look upon the Italian government to understand. (Yes, people look upon the US government also.) I do not think you have to apologize for misjudging Defkalion. One has at least to believe that people who claim something are telling the truth. Another thing is that one should be careful to invest before enough is confirmed.That is a hard balance as if you invest in due diligence you have to retract, not the easiest either. I think (with no inside info) that Defkalion 'received' enough information to believe they could just as well perform the job without AR. Unfortunately the information was only partly correct and even if the base information was right there are things in any idea that only exists in the head of the creator. I do not think one can steal ideas with a good ROI. Best Regards , Lennart Thornros www.StrategicLeadershipSac.com lenn...@thornros.com +1 916 436 1899 6140 Horseshoe Bar Road Suite G, Loomis CA 95650 Productivity is never an accident. It is always the result of a commitment to excellence, intelligent planning, and focused effort. PJM On Fri, Apr 11, 2014 at 3:37 PM, Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.com wrote: 2014-04-11 16:58 GMT-03:00 Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com: Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.com wrote: I know who they were. I have photos of them and their equipment. Lier. By who? You - Jed -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com
Re: [Vo]:Lewan book
Hi all I posted some of this earlier but I think people missed it as I posted it with different heading to every one else in the thread. I particularly want people to pay attentions as to why I think Rossi's patent is in point of fact a perfect patent trap, set to succeed at the MOMENT OF MARKET PENETRATION so as to prevent trade secrets being leaked while ensuring Rossi has proof of priority of art for future legal battles. People seem to have missed the fact the patent office have said Rossi's patent will succeed without reservation if he shows a working product, this means Rossi's product goes live within six months from the date the patent was put in abeyance. On the matter of Rossi's business strategy. I suggest people read Sun Tzu and Machiavelli. Like any good business strategy Rossi's business strategy involves multiple layers each is expected to be defeated but the overall strategy is designed to win. The first strategy is secrecy and deception. Until the plan for exploitation is in play. This is a basis of any great strategy. So Rossi gives out the occasional red herring and does not allow people to inspect the process too closely. Trade Secrets and NDA's are a big plank in this strategy. So when a certain blogger attempted to discover the Rossi process by taking equipment in to Rossi's lab that would have compromised the security of Rossi's operation he threw them out much to that persons chagrin, as he thought he was part of the in-crowd. Rossi also threw out a partner who had connections to the blogger. The blogger then started writing anti Rossi postings in order to delay Rossi's move to exploitation. And when a partner was found to be not working as a partner should they too got dropped. The patent(s) also forms part of this, as others said Rossi's patent has failed but the failure is one designed to ensure the patent succeeds! AT THE MOMENT OF MARKET PENETRATION! In order for Rossi's patent to succeed all Rossi has to do is show the working plant being used. If that is done within the 6 month period the patent automatically succeeds. Rossi's patent lawyers know this. And the patent office stated it. This will be the first of Rossi's patents. Then Rossi built up his alliances. For a strategy to win in an environment of multiple stronger foes one must form alliances, either with one of the foes, or with those external to the sphere you wish to enter who will provide the backing needed to launch the strategy so that they too may enter this particular market. This Rossi has achieved through a mixture of licensing and finally sale of the core technology to a chief partner who he trusts. The trust is probably backed up with fail safes and lawyers. ;) In the meantime Rossi's tech team have been banking trade secrets to turn in to lots of small future patents, each of these is another plank in the legal battles to come, it is something they will continue to do for decades. The moment of market penetration. The next phase of Rossi's strategy is a controlled thrust into the market. This is to enable initial market penetration while ensuring a degree of veiling of the full plan and while maintain a degree of trade secrets for as long as possible, this is a reactive strategy that Rossi knows will inevitably fail and he accepts that. Ideally such a strategy is achieved in ways that do not hint at the true strategy and feed the foe's assessment of your intentions, look the D Day deception plan. Market exploitation By this phase Rossi's patent already applies and the legal battles begin, this requires big pockets, this is what the secret backers of Cherokee provide. The whole idea here is to slow down the opposition while Rossi's team stay ahead in terms of technological upgrades each with their own patent. At this point other manufactures will enter the market but Rossi has already established licensees in multiple territories, they will agree exploitation paths with multiple governments that will enact laws that will also help Rossi; they will do this to get early access because those countries that don't will be behind the curve. Rossi recognises nations will want their own version for security and that they will legally take it if they are not given it. So Rossi will trade that early access for that protection. Those in power will then distribute the local licenses to those who will pay for their post executive retirement plan of, 1000 seat 1,000 dollar a ticket 200 date international book tour dinners, that the company sends their staff to and claims back from tax as training expense. With additional places on the boards of a charities, international bodies or think tanks that each pay 100,000 plus a year. To be followed by board positions on subsidiaries and partner/client companies. I think that is how this political stuff works. Brand power. Rossi will by this time have achieved a brand power that the recent Mats Lewan book hints at. That brand power is what will mean people
Re: [Vo]:Lewan book
Of course, I will read it. You are also throwing a tantrum, nevertheless. -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com
Re: [Vo]:Lewan book
Ian Walker walker...@gmail.com wrote: People seem to have missed the fact the patent office have said Rossi's patent will succeed without reservation if he shows a working product, this means Rossi's product goes live within six months from the date the patent was put in abeyance. In order for Rossi's patent to succeed all Rossi has to do is show the working plant being used. If that is done within the 6 month period the patent automatically succeeds. Rossi's patent lawyers know this. . . . That is not true. The patent is invalid now and will remain invalid, because it does not teach how to replicate. A patent is automatically invalid if it cannot be used by a person having ordinary skill in the art (PHOSITA) to replicate. And the patent office stated it. Not as far as I know, it didn't. Rossi might demonstrate a cold fusion powered moon rocket tomorrow but that will have no bearing on his patent. A patent MUST reveal the technical secret, or it is invalid. Maybe Rossi has another, valid patent in the works. This one is a failure. David French said so, and he is an expert. Heck, even I could see it does not show to replicate, and I know little about patents. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Lewan book
Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.com wrote: Of course, I will read it. You are also throwing a tantrum, nevertheless. No, I am not. That is only happening in your imagination. You need to get a grip. Also, you need to stop calling people liars here. That is not acceptable in this forum. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Lewan book
So, is it OK to accuse DGT of anything without providing any names, photos? You just say you know. And I am not calling people liars, just you. That's because you should be the first to know how fragile cold fusion is, but you are shamelessly badmouthing a company that may really change world. In such a small community, you do have a voice, you are known to be informed. But, note, you always give information, you translated many things from Japanese groups, you host a library. This gives you a lot of credit. So, people will do listen to you. But since you are doing such a bad view of defkalion, without saying names **explicitly**, in a forum where your posts can be found easily on Google, you are indeed doing a disservice to the world, just for the sake of your vanity. 2014-04-11 20:23 GMT-03:00 Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com: Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.com wrote: Of course, I will read it. You are also throwing a tantrum, nevertheless. No, I am not. That is only happening in your imagination. You need to get a grip. Also, you need to stop calling people liars here. That is not acceptable in this forum. - Jed -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com
Re: [Vo]:Lewan book
Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.com wrote: So, is it OK to accuse DGT of anything without providing any names, photos? I am not accusing them of anything. They themselves announced they were closing down operations in Greece, years ago. One or two of their people moved to Canada. The rest of the staff quit. They said they could not get funded in Greece, so they had to close down the lab there. THEY said that, not me. They said they hoped to get funding in Canada. Obviously, they did not get it, because they still have no employees. They had some kind of facility in Italy which they used during the ICCF17 demo. I do not know about that one. The one I know about was in Greece. They told Lewan they spend 7 million Euros there. It was an impressive lab. And I am not calling people liars, just you. No one is calling anyone a liar! I am repeating what Defkalion announced in their press release, that the lab was closing down. That's because you should be the first to know how fragile cold fusion is, but you are shamelessly badmouthing a company that may really change world. I do not see how they can change the world. They have two non-technical people, no money, not a single paper, and apparently no product. Many technical experts visited them, as described in the book. As far as I know, not a single one of those experts saw a convincing test. Most of them said the calorimetry did not work. If they have a convincing test done by an outside expert, they should publish it. They promised to do this years ago. They themselves are holding back all of the evaluations under NDAs that they themselves insisted on. If they have a positive report they could dissolve the NDA and publish it any time. In my opinion, until they publish an independent evaluation, they have no credibility. They have never published ANYTHING technical. Not even a calibration curve. They do not get a free pass. We do not help the cause of cold fusion by giving credibility to people who have done nothing to deserve it. People who do not publish scientific data themselves, or allow scientists to examine and freely publish their findings. Rossi is no scientist. His own tests are inexcusably sloppy. But he allowed the people from Elforsk to test his machine, and he let them publish. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Lewan book
This is not true. That's what I can say. And why are you calling Peter Gluck and Yianni's son a nobody? 2014-04-11 22:37 GMT-03:00 Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com: Obviously, they did not get it, because they still have no employees. -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com
Re: [Vo]:Lewan book
Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.com wrote: This is not true. That's what I can say. And why are you calling Peter Gluck and Yianni's son a nobody? Peter Gluck is retired as far as I know. He told me he is too old to travel. He is not working in a lab for Defkalion, that's for sure. I have never heard of Yianni's son. Is he working in a lab? I guess they have 3 employees. I don't honestly know how many they have, but the people who have visited them in Canada tell me there are two people and no lab. Perhaps they have a lab. Perhaps they have wonderful results. I am saying that I have not seen any results or labs, and I do not know anyone who has seen them. There is nothing in Lewan's book. If you, Daniel Rocha, know about a paper, or a lab, or some wonderful test result, please tell us! Stop talking about me. Tell us what you know. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Lewan book
Oh, you raised the question! Tell me the name of those who complained about failed tests! 2014-04-11 22:51 GMT-03:00 Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com: Stop talking about me. Tell us what you know. - Jed -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com
Re: [Vo]:Lewan book
Jed: Edison knew he had solved the problem, but he had a lot of work left, [so] more intellectual property [was] there for the taking. Low hanging fruit. He did not want his competition to take him too seriously. On the other hand, he needed more big bucks from the investors and banks. It was a delicate balancing act: how to keep up the excitement while triggering the lowest possible level of serious competition. Rossi is doing exactly the same thing. I recognize that is his strategy. He is hardly keeping it secret. Countless inventors and companies have done this. It does not mystify me at all. To people unfamiliar with business it looks crazy. What's good for the goose is also good for the gander. How does Jed know that Defkalion isn't playing the same low profile game? With the world's major intelligence agencies watching them, it's smart to get as small as possible? Maybe here too Jed is just a tool in this Defkalion master plan. Jed is always very short on details and is seldom open at first he just states his opinion as true and says trust me. Name names. Give us every detail. Put a stake through the heart of Defkalion or stop the Joe McCarthy impersonation. Getting the real facts out of Jed is like pulling teeth. Anybody else that has Defkalion facts to state then wet Jed's appetite for revelation. So justify your slamming of Defkalion in public. Justify your assertions or if you can't, you may also be at risk of being an another tool of Defkalian's maskirovka. Tell us what you know.
Re: [Vo]:Lewan book
Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.com wrote: Oh, you raised the question! Tell me the name of those who complained about failed tests! See the book. - Jed
RE: [Vo]:Lewan book
Daniel, Calling Jed a Liar and then claiming he is ...throwing a tantrum over the DGT matter is, IMO, not winning you many converts. Quite frankly, some of your recent posts strike me as possessing an emotionally charged need on your part to play the role of an advocate for DGT's questionable business tactics, as perceived by some on this forum. Personally, I don't know enuf about DGT to feel I can make a judgment call on the matter, either pro or con. At present, I prefer to stay neutral on the matter while carefully taking into account the insights of individuals like Mr. Rothwell, Beene, and others. All I know is that in my experience, ignoring Jed's insights on most CF matters is not a wise thing to do. The last time I observed such a stalwart display of a defense of an organization or business entity was when I was still a board member on New Energy Time's, headed by Steve Krivit. Krivit really liked the Widdom Larson theory. He strongly defended the individuals an organization promoting that theory. Krivit did so while simultaneously casting doubt on the professional reputation of a certain well respected CF researcher who was recently interviewed on 60 minutes. Obviously, you are not Mr. Krivit. What I'm trying to say here is that I would recommend that you try to find some neutrality on the subject. You are not neutral on this subject. You will eventually lose if don't find neutrality. Regards, Steven Vincent Johnson svjart.orionworks.com
Re: [Vo]:Lewan book
Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: What's good for the goose is also good for the gander. How does Jed know that Defkalion isn't playing the same low profile game? With the world's major intelligence agencies watching them, it's smart to get as small as possible? Maybe here too Jed is just a tool in this Defkalion master plan. I doubt any intelligence agency is watching Defkalion or Rossi. Barbara Barnhart at the DIA is trying to get them interested, but she is not having much success as far as I know. You misunderstand the low profile game. The object is to impress your investors and keep the research going while at the same time not bringing too much attention to yourself. If you are forced to close down a lab and fire everyone after spending 7 million Euros, that does not impress your investors or your inner circle. When the lab is closed, you make no more progress. You cannot develop a product. I am sure the lab in Greece is closed. Jed is always very short on details and is seldom open at first he just states his opinion as true and says trust me. Name names. It is not my job to name names. Defkalion has them under NDA. I did not sign an NDA, but I will honor the agreement. Lewan discloses most of them in the book. Others have been discussed here. Do your own homework. It is not my job to make the case for Defkalion, either. If they have positive evaluations, let them publish these evaluations. Why should anyone give them a free pass? Why should we believe them when they have *never published a single scrap of data*? It is ridiculous! No one here would believe Mizuno, Fleischmann or any other academic scientist who has never published a paper. Why should we believe a corporation? - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Lewan book
Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: Jed is always very short on details and is seldom open at first he just states his opinion as true and says trust me. Name names. Give us every detail. Put a stake through the heart of Defkalion or stop the Joe McCarthy impersonation. Getting the real facts out of Jed is like pulling teeth. There are no facts! THERE ARE NO DETAILS! That is my whole point. That's what I have been saying, again and again. Defkalion has published NOTHING. No one paper. Not so much as a calibration curve. They did a video demonstration at ICCF17. Some months later they came out and said the flow rate measurement was not right so the results were questionable. They said that many experts visited them and confirmed the results. They said they would publish these evaluations. That was 2 years ago. Not one evaluation has been published. All of the experts I know who went there are under NDA but they told me a little. They said it did not work. Period. So, the ball is in your court. If you know of *any* evidence that they have something, tell us about it. Anything at all! If you do not know of anything, then why do you believe them? This is science, not religion. You have to see proof. You should not believe a technical claim because a corporation publishes empty public relations blather. It is up to Defkalion to make a scientific case. If you believe them, it is up to you to point to some published scientific information. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Lewan book
No, I am not casting doubt on Jed. On the contrary, I raised the point that due his credibility, making a point which he doesn't have a proof would hurt the future of the world. I would, indeed, call Jed a negative Krivit look alike, an anti DGT. That is, instead of defending a group, he is targeting a single one without proofs and telling things that are not true, such as their lab in Athens being closed or that they don't have a meaningful number of people on Canada. And this is all due his version of the ticket story and the way he *wants* to interpret Yiannis words. You seem to talk as if I had no credibility or experience on cold fusion. This is not true and, indeed, Jed translated from Japanese 2 papers of mine with Akito Takahashi. 2014-04-11 23:07 GMT-03:00 OrionWorks - Steven Vincent Johnson orionwo...@charter.net: He strongly defended the individuals an organization promoting that theory. Krivit did so while simultaneously casting doubt on the professional reputation of a certain well respected CF researcher who was recently interviewed on 60 minutes. -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com
Re: [Vo]:Lewan book
This is true. But, my mouth is very charyt! 2014-04-11 23:26 GMT-03:00 Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com: They said that many experts visited them and confirmed the results. -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com
Re: [Vo]:Lewan book
Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.com wrote: That is, instead of defending a group, he is targeting a single one without proofs and telling things that are not true, such as their lab in Athens being closed . . . Look, Daniel, get a grip! THEY SAID IT IS CLOSED. Most of the people there left the company. The others moved to Canada. This is what Defkalion themselves announced! Why don't you believe them? This was on Defkalion's own web site. Why do you say it is not true? Why do you accuse me of making it up? You are not making sense. . . . or that they don't have a meaningful number of people on Canada. They had 2 people, and 1 went back to Greece. That is what the people I know who visited them say. They have no lab. If they had a lab, don't you think they would say so, on their website? And this is all due his version of the ticket story and the way he *wants* to interpret Yiannis words. I am not interpreting anything! - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Lewan book
Huh, yes. You are deluding yourself. They do have a lab. http://www.infinite-energy.com/images/pdfs/ManningIE110.pdf 2014-04-11 23:36 GMT-03:00 Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com: I am not interpreting anything! - Jed -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com
Re: [Vo]:Lewan book
On Fri, Apr 11, 2014 at 10:26 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.comwrote: There are no facts! THERE ARE NO DETAILS! That is my whole point. That's what I have been saying, again and again. Defkalion has published NOTHING. No one paper. Not so much as a calibration curve. In preamble, remember that even some tests that Rossi did were not successful. There is a ton of information in those two papers issued from ICCF-17 and ICCF-18 and the presentations produced by Kim or did you forget or were you even interested in it. There is more that goes into theory than the ability to boil water. What is your opinion on the data that was contained in these sources? There is far more info in those releases than Rossi ever produced, and Rossi's credibility at boing water is equal to or less than that of Defkalion. This is just an exercise in the pear review process. Defkalion has made some amazing scientific claims. If Defkalion is not credible, then their scientifically derived claims are not credible. That lack of credibility extends to all the theories that embrace the validity of those scientific claims and data. It is best to stop or invalidate any false claims sooner rather than later. We must be ruthless in this regard. On the other hand, if the claims are true we must remove the taint around those claims as some as possible. Being so prominent in the field of LENR, Jed, holds a special position as a practitioner of valid an unquestioned peer review. If he can't reveal his hidden sources because of confidentiality, that restriction on information must somehow be overcome in support of immediate scientific truth to advance LENR as a field of science. They did a video demonstration at ICCF17. Some months later they came out and said the flow rate measurement was not right so the results were questionable. They said that many experts visited them and confirmed the results. They said they would publish these evaluations. That was 2 years ago. Why release data on a version of a reactor design that is two versions old. Not one evaluation has been published. All of the experts I know who went there are under NDA but they told me a little. They said it did not work. Period. So, the ball is in your court. If you know of *any* evidence that they have something, tell us about it. Anything at all! If you do not know of anything, then why do you believe them? It is up to Defkalion to make a scientific case. If you believe them, it is up to you to point to some published scientific information. I have been. I have references over a hundred papers in support of a theory that is compatible with the data and the operation behavior of their reactor that Deflation has released. Since these papers do not deal with boiling water, the measuring of said energy production, they obviously hold little interest for you.
Re: [Vo]:Lewan book
On Fri, Apr 11, 2014 at 6:55 PM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: What’s good for the goose is also good for the gander. ... you may also be at risk of being an another tool of Defkalian’s maskirovka. Where do you get these idioms and turns of phrase? If there is a good Web site out there, please point me to it. Eric
Re: [Vo]:Lewan book
I have been increasing impressed by the stiletto sharp precision of your writing. It would be tragic and a disservice to adulterate it with the home spun platitudes that you referenced. We all must struggle under the restrictions of our limitations. Always try to improve, don't backslide. On Fri, Apr 11, 2014 at 11:28 PM, Eric Walker eric.wal...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Apr 11, 2014 at 6:55 PM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: What's good for the goose is also good for the gander. ... you may also be at risk of being an another tool of Defkalian's maskirovka. Where do you get these idioms and turns of phrase? If there is a good Web site out there, please point me to it. Eric
Re: [Vo]:Lewan book
Jed: If you are forced to close down a lab and fire everyone after spending 7 million Euros, that does not impress your investors or your inner circle. I can understand the reason for this. When a company knows little in a specified field, they spend money to hire employees and consultants to fill the specialized knowledge gap. As time goes on, the major players in the company learn all that the outsiders have to teach and if these outsiders now become incompatible with the new expertise required as dictated by the new technical directions required to move the project forward, then why waste any more money on this old outdated static technical expertise. DGT brought Dr. Kim on board of late, and he has made a major contribution, even if I now believe his theory is derivative and emergent from more basic LENR principles; the same limitation as Ed Storms by the way. When the project has gone far into the unknown, almost near the end of the trail technically, few can help anymore, so the employment pool that DGT can hire from is near zero. By now for example, I guess that the real time nuclear reaction product analyzer is completed and is yielding results. That would have had to cost big money to develop. I am interested to see its results. Those results will say a lot about the character of the reaction. But the people needed to develop that machine are no longer needed. DGT must be working on a new version of their reactor just as Rossi is. If there are any new skills that they need to complete that new version of their reactor, they will contract that out to get new expertise but based on Jed's public opinion of them, I don't think that they will confide in Jed about that or anything else at this juncture...if I am any judge of human nature. On Fri, Apr 11, 2014 at 11:15 PM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Apr 11, 2014 at 10:26 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.comwrote: There are no facts! THERE ARE NO DETAILS! That is my whole point. That's what I have been saying, again and again. Defkalion has published NOTHING. No one paper. Not so much as a calibration curve. In preamble, remember that even some tests that Rossi did were not successful. There is a ton of information in those two papers issued from ICCF-17 and ICCF-18 and the presentations produced by Kim or did you forget or were you even interested in it. There is more that goes into theory than the ability to boil water. What is your opinion on the data that was contained in these sources? There is far more info in those releases than Rossi ever produced, and Rossi's credibility at boing water is equal to or less than that of Defkalion. This is just an exercise in the pear review process. Defkalion has made some amazing scientific claims. If Defkalion is not credible, then their scientifically derived claims are not credible. That lack of credibility extends to all the theories that embrace the validity of those scientific claims and data. It is best to stop or invalidate any false claims sooner rather than later. We must be ruthless in this regard. On the other hand, if the claims are true we must remove the taint around those claims as some as possible. Being so prominent in the field of LENR, Jed, holds a special position as a practitioner of valid an unquestioned peer review. If he can't reveal his hidden sources because of confidentiality, that restriction on information must somehow be overcome in support of immediate scientific truth to advance LENR as a field of science. They did a video demonstration at ICCF17. Some months later they came out and said the flow rate measurement was not right so the results were questionable. They said that many experts visited them and confirmed the results. They said they would publish these evaluations. That was 2 years ago. Why release data on a version of a reactor design that is two versions old. Not one evaluation has been published. All of the experts I know who went there are under NDA but they told me a little. They said it did not work. Period. So, the ball is in your court. If you know of *any* evidence that they have something, tell us about it. Anything at all! If you do not know of anything, then why do you believe them? It is up to Defkalion to make a scientific case. If you believe them, it is up to you to point to some published scientific information. I have been. I have references over a hundred papers in support of a theory that is compatible with the data and the operation behavior of their reactor that Deflation has released. Since these papers do not deal with boiling water, the measuring of said energy production, they obviously hold little interest for you.
Re: [Vo]:Lewan book
On Fri, Apr 11, 2014 at 6:42 PM, Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.com wrote: This is not true. That's what I can say. And why are you calling Peter Gluck and Yianni's son a nobody? I don't think anyone would call Peter a nobody. I'm curious -- what is the name of Yianni's son? Is it Aris Chatzichristos? Eric
Re: [Vo]:Lewan book
Yes Take a look to an elegant redefinition of scientific fundamentals as apeared in an early paper of Aris Chatzichristos at http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=426 He may be the technical backbone of DGT, the equal to or the belter of Rossi. On Sat, Apr 12, 2014 at 12:54 AM, Eric Walker eric.wal...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Apr 11, 2014 at 6:42 PM, Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.comwrote: This is not true. That's what I can say. And why are you calling Peter Gluck and Yianni's son a nobody? I don't think anyone would call Peter a nobody. I'm curious -- what is the name of Yianni's son? Is it Aris Chatzichristos? Eric
Re: [Vo]:Lewan book
That's a good sign. Because the reality is, no one is going to care whatsoever about Rossi's quirks if he really has what he says he has. I think that's what Rossi is thinking too. On Wed, Apr 9, 2014 at 1:07 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: Okay, I have the book. The .mobi version opens automatically with the Kindle for PC program. This is an accurate and well-written account. It is depressing. I am glad Lewan made public many events and people's names, because it means I do not keep them secret any more. The book harshly criticizes Rossi in places. I am a little surprised that Rossi is not upset with Lewan. Rossi has a generous nature at times. The history described in this book is depressing, but the present is somewhat brighter. I have a good impression of the people in North Carolina, Cherokee Investments Partners, who are now working with Rossi. I do not know much about them, but I have a good impression. I think Rossi likes them, which is essential for success. This is probably the best opportunity Rossi can hope for. - Jed
[Vo]:Lewan book
Okay, I have the book. The .mobi version opens automatically with the Kindle for PC program. This is an accurate and well-written account. It is depressing. I am glad Lewan made public many events and people's names, because it means I do not keep them secret any more. The book harshly criticizes Rossi in places. I am a little surprised that Rossi is not upset with Lewan. Rossi has a generous nature at times. The history described in this book is depressing, but the present is somewhat brighter. I have a good impression of the people in North Carolina, Cherokee Investments Partners, who are now working with Rossi. I do not know much about them, but I have a good impression. I think Rossi likes them, which is essential for success. This is probably the best opportunity Rossi can hope for. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Lewan book
You are smarter than I.:) I could not open with the Kindle app. I used the Kindle for android. Are those programs different. I found a epub app in the plays-tore, with some help from Mats, which opens it. Dont you think AR should be criticised by a journalist who maintain integrity? I think so. I also believe that AR can say that; I faced the problem in real time and as all reporting this is a little bit of Monday night quarter back. If the book opened up for a more open discussion I think it made progress more likely and quicker. Best Regards , Lennart Thornros www.StrategicLeadershipSac.com lenn...@thornros.com +1 916 436 1899 6140 Horseshoe Bar Road Suite G, Loomis CA 95650 Productivity is never an accident. It is always the result of a commitment to excellence, intelligent planning, and focused effort. PJM On Wed, Apr 9, 2014 at 1:07 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: Okay, I have the book. The .mobi version opens automatically with the Kindle for PC program. This is an accurate and well-written account. It is depressing. I am glad Lewan made public many events and people's names, because it means I do not keep them secret any more. The book harshly criticizes Rossi in places. I am a little surprised that Rossi is not upset with Lewan. Rossi has a generous nature at times. The history described in this book is depressing, but the present is somewhat brighter. I have a good impression of the people in North Carolina, Cherokee Investments Partners, who are now working with Rossi. I do not know much about them, but I have a good impression. I think Rossi likes them, which is essential for success. This is probably the best opportunity Rossi can hope for. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Lewan book
I used the free program Calibre to read the epub file on my computer. It works very well and does a lot of other things too. I Thought the book well written and it certainly fleshed out some details for me. The criticisms were as much because of circumstances as anything Rossi did wrong. Rossi obviously has a lot of guts. The general impression from the book was that the E-Cat was real and worked. That is by far the most important point. So Rossi has flaws and can be difficult to work with. Who here is perfect? Who here has invented something worthy of a Nobel Prize?
Re: [Vo]:Lewan book
Lennart Thornros lenn...@thornros.com wrote: Dont you think AR should be criticised by a journalist who maintain integrity? I think so. I think so too, but I am surprised AR did not go ape shit on him. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Lewan book
I think so too, but I am surprised AR did not go ape shit on him. Mats describes right up front how he asked Rossi if he was OK with reporting the truth as he sees it. He's unflattering about Rossi but he never says he thinks that the eCat's fake, or that Rossi outright lied. We all know from his blogs that Rossi exaggerates, and jumps from an idea to it's already done. Mats describes some of the background in detail. Example: Rossi said that an AP reporter was going to publish an article. We only learned from Mats that the reporter was there, but wasn't allowed to publish. I don't recall Rossi saying he was there. We (and Mats) still don't know about the Military Customer and 12 more orders. Was that a Rossi lie? Particularly since the customer now appears to be Industrial Heat. Overall Rossi comes out ahead, so I think he really is pleased with the book as a whole.
