Actually this is quite critical.
Defining a chair - which would agree with each instance of a chair in the
supplied image - is the way a chair should be defined and is the way the
mind processes it.
It can be defined mathematically in many ways. There is a particular one I
would go for
What about DESTIN? Jim has talked about video. Could DESTIN be generalized
to 3 dimensions, or even n dimensions?
- Ian Parker
On 9 August 2010 07:16, John G. Rose johnr...@polyplexic.com wrote:
Actually this is quite critical.
Defining a chair - which would agree with each instance of
I agree John that this is a useful exercise. This would be a good discussion
if mike would ever admit that I might be right and he might be wrong. I'm
not sure that will ever happen though. :) First he says I can't define a
pattern that works. Then, when I do, he says the pattern is no good
John:It can be defined mathematically in many ways
Try it - crude drawings/jottings/diagrams totally acceptable. See my set of
fotos to Dave.
(And yes, you're right this is of extreme importance. And no. Dave, there are
no such things as non-physical patterns).
From: John G. Rose
Sent:
Dave,
You offer nothing to even attend to.
The questions completely unanswered by you are:
1. what basic visual units of analysis have you arrived at? (you say there are
such things - you must have arrived at something, no?) - zero answer
2.what kind of physical/visual *pattern* informs our
The mind cannot determine whether or not -every- instance of a kind
of object is that kind of object. I believe that the problem must be a
problem of complexity and it is just that the mind is much better at dealing
with complicated systems of possibilities than any computer program. A
young
You see. This is precisely why I don't want to argue with Mike anymore. it
must be a physical pattern. LOL. Who ever said that patterns must be
physical? This is exactly why you can't see my point of view. You impose
unnecessary restrictions on any possible solution when there really are no
such
PS Examples of nonphysical patterns AND how they are applicable to visual AGI.?
From: David Jones
Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 1:34 PM
To: agi
Subject: Re: [agi] How To Create General AI Draft2
You see. This is precisely why I don't want to argue with Mike anymore. it
must be a physical
I already stated these. read previous emails.
On Mon, Aug 9, 2010 at 8:48 AM, Mike Tintner tint...@blueyonder.co.ukwrote:
PS Examples of nonphysical patterns AND how they are applicable to visual
AGI.?
*From:* David Jones davidher...@gmail.com
*Sent:* Monday, August 09, 2010 1:34 PM
Examples of nonphysical patterns?
From: David Jones
Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 1:34 PM
To: agi
Subject: Re: [agi] How To Create General AI Draft2
You see. This is precisely why I don't want to argue with Mike anymore. it
must be a physical pattern. LOL. Who ever said that patterns must
No you didn't. You're being evasive through and through.
You haven't answered the questions put to you in any shape or form other than
nonphysical - and never will. Nor do you have any answer. Finis.
From: David Jones
Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 1:51 PM
To: agi
Subject: Re: [agi] How To
Mike,
Quoting a previous email:
QUOTE
In fact, the chair patterns you refer to are not strictly physical
patterns. The pattern is based on how the objects can be used, what their
intended uses probably are, and what most common effective uses are.
So, chairs are objects that are used to sit
Mike Tintner tint...@blueyonder.co.uk wrote:
How do you reckon that will work for an infant or anyone who has only
seen an example or two of the concept class-of-forms?
I do not reckon that it will work for an infant or anyone (or anything) who
(or that) has only seen an example or two of
Hi David,
I read the essay
I think it summarizes well some of the key issues involving the bridge
between perception and cognition, and the hierarchical decomposition of
natural concepts
I find the ideas very harmonious with those of Jeff Hawkins, Itamar Arel,
and other researchers focused
Mike,
The concept of chair is not an isolated concept by itself. It is also not
recognized using a single simple schema. People have seen many chair
instances in their lives and are able to learn their features and
affordances. We are able to compare their features and structures.
So, when we
Thanks Ben,
I think the biggest difference with the way I approach it is to be
deliberate in how the system solves specific kinds of problems. I haven't
gone into that in detail yet though.
For example, Itamar seems to want to give the AI the basic building blocks
that make up spaciotemporal
Ben: I don't agree that solving vision and the vision-cognition bridge is
*such* a huge part of AGI, though it's certainly a nontrivial percentage
Presumably because you don't envisage your AGI/computer as an independent
entity? All its info. is going to have to be entered into it in a
On Mon, Aug 9, 2010 at 11:42 AM, Mike Tintner tint...@blueyonder.co.ukwrote:
Ben: I don't agree that solving vision and the vision-cognition bridge is
*such* a huge part of AGI, though it's certainly a nontrivial percentage
Presumably because you don't envisage your AGI/computer as an
The human visual system doesn't evolve like that on the fly. This can be
proven by the fact that we all see the same visual illusions. We all exhibit
the same visual limitations in the same way. There is much evidence that the
system doesn't evolve accidentally. It has a limited set of rules
Ben:I think that vision and the vision-cognition bridge are important for AGI,
but I think they're only a moderate portion of the problem, and not the hardest
part...
Which is?
From: Ben Goertzel
Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 4:57 PM
To: agi
Subject: Re: [agi] How To Create General AI
Point about DESTIN, it has no preconceived assumptions. Some of
the entities might be chairs, but it will not have been specifically told
about a chair.
- Ian Parker
On 9 August 2010 12:50, Jim Bromer jimbro...@gmail.com wrote:
The mind cannot determine whether or not -every- instance of a
sorry,i think all the cognition are base on a private language of models base
on
topolical geometrical dynamic in our web mental
therefore the mecanism of vision serve at visionmental-vision
bruno
De : Mike Tintner tint...@blueyonder.co.uk
À : agi
IMO the hardest part is not any particular part, but rather integration:
getting all the parts to work together in a scalable, adaptive way...
On Mon, Aug 9, 2010 at 12:48 PM, Mike Tintner tint...@blueyonder.co.ukwrote:
Ben:I think that vision and the vision-cognition bridge are important for
Ben,
Comments below.
On Mon, Aug 9, 2010 at 12:00 PM, Ben Goertzel b...@goertzel.org wrote:
The human visual system doesn't evolve like that on the fly. This can be
proven by the fact that we all see the same visual illusions. We all exhibit
the same visual limitations in the same way.
I've decided to go. I was wondering if anyone else here is.
Dave
---
agi
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I'm speaking there, on Ai applied to life extension; and participating in a
panel discussion on narrow vs. general AI...
ben g
On Mon, Aug 9, 2010 at 4:01 PM, David Jones davidher...@gmail.com wrote:
I've decided to go. I was wondering if anyone else here is.
Dave
*agi* | Archives
-Original Message-
From: Jim Bromer [mailto:jimbro...@gmail.com]
The question for me is not what the
smallest pieces of visual information necessary to represent the range
and diversity of kinds of objects are, but how would these diverse
examples
be woven into highly compressed
Hmm... Shall we coin this the Tinter Contrarian Pattern?
Or anti-pattern :)
John
From: David Jones [mailto:davidher...@gmail.com]
I agree John that this is a useful exercise. This would be a good discussion
if mike would ever admit that I might be right and he might be wrong. I'm
not
An unusually sophisticated ( somewhat expensive) promotional robot vid:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/news/7934318/Nao-the-robot-that-expresses-and-detects-emotions.html
---
agi
Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now
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On Mon, Aug 9, 2010 at 4:57 PM, John G. Rose johnr...@polyplexic.comwrote:
-Original Message-
From: Jim Bromer [mailto:jimbro...@gmail.com]
how would these diverse examples
be woven into highly compressed and heavily cross-indexed pieces of
knowledge that could be accessed
Aww, so cute.
I wonder if it has a Wi-Fi connection, DHCP's an IP address, and relays
sensory information back to the main servers with all the other Nao's all
collecting personal data in a massive multi-agent geo-distributed
robo-network.
So cuddly!
And I wonder if it receives and
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