for though...
John
From: Mike Tintner [mailto:tint...@blueyonder.co.uk]
Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2010 7:28 AM
To: agi
Subject: Re: [agi] How To Create General AI Draft2
You're waffling.
You say there's a pattern for chair - DRAW IT. Attached should help you.
Analyse the chairs given
, August 08, 2010 7:28 AM
*To:* agi
*Subject:* Re: [agi] How To Create General AI Draft2
You're waffling.
You say there's a pattern for chair - DRAW IT. Attached should help you.
Analyse the chairs given in terms of basic visual units. Or show how any
basic units can be applied to them
. There is a particular one I
would go for though...
John
*From:* Mike Tintner [mailto:tint...@blueyonder.co.uk]
*Sent:* Sunday, August 08, 2010 7:28 AM
To: agi
Subject: Re: [agi] How To Create General AI Draft2
You're waffling.
You say there's a pattern for chair - DRAW IT. Attached should
: Monday, August 09, 2010 7:16 AM
To: agi
Subject: RE: [agi] How To Create General AI Draft2
Actually this is quite critical.
Defining a chair - which would agree with each instance of a chair in the
supplied image - is the way a chair should be defined and is the way the mind
processes
, keep quiet.
From: David Jones
Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 11:55 AM
To: agi
Subject: Re: RE: [agi] How To Create General AI Draft2
I agree John that this is a useful exercise. This would be a good discussion if
mike would ever admit that I might be right and he might be wrong. I'm not sure
The mind cannot determine whether or not -every- instance of a kind
of object is that kind of object. I believe that the problem must be a
problem of complexity and it is just that the mind is much better at dealing
with complicated systems of possibilities than any computer program. A
young
You see. This is precisely why I don't want to argue with Mike anymore. it
must be a physical pattern. LOL. Who ever said that patterns must be
physical? This is exactly why you can't see my point of view. You impose
unnecessary restrictions on any possible solution when there really are no
such
PS Examples of nonphysical patterns AND how they are applicable to visual AGI.?
From: David Jones
Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 1:34 PM
To: agi
Subject: Re: [agi] How To Create General AI Draft2
You see. This is precisely why I don't want to argue with Mike anymore. it
must be a physical
*To:* agi agi@v2.listbox.com
*Subject:* Re: [agi] How To Create General AI Draft2
You see. This is precisely why I don't want to argue with Mike anymore. it
must be a physical pattern. LOL. Who ever said that patterns must be
physical? This is exactly why you can't see my point of view. You impose
Examples of nonphysical patterns?
From: David Jones
Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 1:34 PM
To: agi
Subject: Re: [agi] How To Create General AI Draft2
You see. This is precisely why I don't want to argue with Mike anymore. it
must be a physical pattern. LOL. Who ever said that patterns must
To: agi
Subject: Re: [agi] How To Create General AI Draft2
You see. This is precisely why I don't want to argue with Mike anymore. it
must be a physical pattern. LOL. Who ever said that patterns must be physical?
This is exactly why you can't see my point of view. You impose unnecessary
*Sent:* Monday, August 09, 2010 1:34 PM
*To:* agi agi@v2.listbox.com
*Subject:* Re: [agi] How To Create General AI Draft2
You see. This is precisely why I don't want to argue with Mike anymore. it
must be a physical pattern. LOL. Who ever said that patterns must be
physical? This is exactly
Bromer jimbro...@gmail.com
*Sent:* Monday, August 09, 2010 12:50 PM
*To:* agi agi@v2.listbox.com
*Subject:* Re: [agi] How To Create General AI Draft2
The mind cannot determine whether or not -every- instance of a kind
of object is that kind of object. I believe that the problem must
Hi David,
I read the essay
I think it summarizes well some of the key issues involving the bridge
between perception and cognition, and the hierarchical decomposition of
natural concepts
I find the ideas very harmonious with those of Jeff Hawkins, Itamar Arel,
and other researchers focused
- and must embrace many
diverse forms that strings may be shaped into.
*From:* David Jones davidher...@gmail.com
*Sent:* Monday, August 09, 2010 2:13 PM
*To:* agi agi@v2.listbox.com
*Subject:* Re: [agi] How To Create General AI Draft2
Mike,
Quoting a previous email:
QUOTE
In fact
Thanks Ben,
I think the biggest difference with the way I approach it is to be
deliberate in how the system solves specific kinds of problems. I haven't
gone into that in detail yet though.
For example, Itamar seems to want to give the AI the basic building blocks
that make up spaciotemporal
Ben: I don't agree that solving vision and the vision-cognition bridge is
*such* a huge part of AGI, though it's certainly a nontrivial percentage
Presumably because you don't envisage your AGI/computer as an independent
entity? All its info. is going to have to be entered into it in a
On Mon, Aug 9, 2010 at 11:42 AM, Mike Tintner tint...@blueyonder.co.ukwrote:
Ben: I don't agree that solving vision and the vision-cognition bridge is
*such* a huge part of AGI, though it's certainly a nontrivial percentage
Presumably because you don't envisage your AGI/computer as an
The human visual system doesn't evolve like that on the fly. This can be
proven by the fact that we all see the same visual illusions. We all exhibit
the same visual limitations in the same way. There is much evidence that the
system doesn't evolve accidentally. It has a limited set of rules
Ben:I think that vision and the vision-cognition bridge are important for AGI,
but I think they're only a moderate portion of the problem, and not the hardest
part...
Which is?
From: Ben Goertzel
Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 4:57 PM
To: agi
Subject: Re: [agi] How To Create General AI
Point about DESTIN, it has no preconceived assumptions. Some of
the entities might be chairs, but it will not have been specifically told
about a chair.
- Ian Parker
On 9 August 2010 12:50, Jim Bromer jimbro...@gmail.com wrote:
The mind cannot determine whether or not -every- instance of a
.listbox.com
Envoyé le : Lun 9 août 2010, 18h 48min 49s
Objet : Re: [agi] How To Create General AI Draft2
Ben:I think that vision and the vision-cognition bridge are important for AGI,
but I think they're only a moderate portion of the problem, and not the hardest
part...
Which is?
From: Ben
for
AGI, but I think they're only a moderate portion of the problem, and not the
hardest part...
Which is?
*From:* Ben Goertzel b...@goertzel.org
*Sent:* Monday, August 09, 2010 4:57 PM
*To:* agi agi@v2.listbox.com
*Subject:* Re: [agi] How To Create General AI Draft2
On Mon, Aug 9, 2010
Ben,
Comments below.
On Mon, Aug 9, 2010 at 12:00 PM, Ben Goertzel b...@goertzel.org wrote:
The human visual system doesn't evolve like that on the fly. This can be
proven by the fact that we all see the same visual illusions. We all exhibit
the same visual limitations in the same way.
-Original Message-
From: Jim Bromer [mailto:jimbro...@gmail.com]
The question for me is not what the
smallest pieces of visual information necessary to represent the range
and diversity of kinds of objects are, but how would these diverse
examples
be woven into highly compressed
To: agi
Subject: Re: [agi] How To Create General AI Draft2
You're waffling.
You say there's a pattern for chair - DRAW IT. Attached should help you.
Analyse the chairs given in terms of basic visual units. Or show how any
basic units can be applied to them. Draw one or two.
You
unit.
From: David Jones
Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2010 5:12 AM
To: agi
Subject: Re: [agi] How To Create General AI Draft2
Mike,
I took your comments into consideration and have been updating my paper to make
sure these problems are addressed.
See more comments below.
On Fri, Aug 6, 2010
. He/It is a
freeform designer. You have to start thinking outside the
box/brick/fundamental unit.
*From:* David Jones davidher...@gmail.com
*Sent:* Sunday, August 08, 2010 5:12 AM
*To:* agi agi@v2.listbox.com
*Subject:* Re: [agi] How To Create General AI Draft2
Mike,
I took your comments
.
*From:* David Jones davidher...@gmail.com
*Sent:* Sunday, August 08, 2010 1:59 PM
To: agi
Subject: Re: [agi] How To Create General AI Draft2
Mike,
We've argued about this over and over and over. I don't want to repeat
previous arguments to you.
You have no proof that the world cannot
concept/class-of-forms is fascinating and central to AGI - you retreat into
vague abstractions while claiming to be interested in visual AGI.
Fine, let's leave it there.
From: David Jones
Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2010 4:12 PM
To: agi
Subject: Re: [agi] How To Create General AI Draft2
:) what you
Abram,
Thanks for the comments.
I think probability is just one way to deal with uncertainty. Defeasible
reasoning is another. Non-monotonic logic of various implementations.
I often think that probability is the wrong way to do some things regarding
AGI design.
Maybe things can't be known
Mike,
I took your comments into consideration and have been updating my paper to
make sure these problems are addressed.
See more comments below.
On Fri, Aug 6, 2010 at 8:15 PM, Mike Tintner tint...@blueyonder.co.ukwrote:
1) You don't define the difference between narrow AI and AGI - or make
1) You don't define the difference between narrow AI and AGI - or make clear
why your approach is one and not the other
2) Learning about the world won't cut it - vast nos. of progs. claim they
can learn about the world - what's the difference between narrow AI and AGI
learning?
3) Breaking
David,
Seems like a reasonable argument to me. I agree with the emphasis on
acquiring knowledge. I agree that tackling language first is not the easiest
path. I agree with the comments on compositionality of knowledge the
regularity of the vast majority of the environment.
Vision seems like a
On Fri, Aug 6, 2010 at 8:22 PM, Abram Demski abramdem...@gmail.com wrote:
(Without this sort of generality, your approach seems restricted to
gathering knowledge about whatever events unfold in front of a limited
quantity of high-quality camera systems which you set up. To be honest, the
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