from:"Vincent Philion"

Re: [apple-crop] Liquid Lime Sulfur?

2016-04-08 Thread Vincent Philion

Hi! I frankly don’t know. I’m assuming it’s related to volume. i/e Dilute vs 
concentrate ? Dilute rates result in more phytotoxicity than concentrate. This 
is “known”, but I’m not sure we always account for that when experiments are 
run with a “gun”. All else being equal, results at 250 L/ha are likely 
different from 1000 L/ha… Or 2500 L/ha! (ie about 30 GPA vs 300 GPA).

  

> Le 7 avr. 2016 à 21:02, David A. Rosenberger <da...@cornell.edu> a écrit :
> 
> I’m surprised that your graphic (and I think I heard the same from Marc 
> Trapman) suggests that in Europe they recommend using LLS only on wet leaves 
> whereas the old info from Burrell suggested that it should NOT be applied to 
> wet leaves.  Any explanation?
>> On Apr 7, 2016, at 5:31 PM, Vincent Philion <vincent.phil...@irda.qc.ca> 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi!
>> 
>>> I heard at the Hudson Valley RIMpro meeting last
>>> month that bicarbonate is used in Europe during rainfall
>> 
>>> That would seem to necessitate repeated applications during an infections 
>>> period. Does it have no after-infection value?
>> 
>> In replicated tests over the years, we saw value in using bicarbonate in a 
>> “short” post-infection window. (250DH). However, If spraying your orchard 
>> takes more than 12 hours, these “soft” molecules are not for you. In the 
>> same tests, Inspire Super or Fontelis or Aprovia are better. No question.
>> 
>> 
>> We use RIMpro to time bicarbonate in order to clean up spores ejected 
>> typically the day before. Timed properly, you don’t “usually” need multiple 
>> sprays. We adjust to risk (RIM value). If conditions dictate an additional 
>> spray, then we advise it.
>> 
>> 
>> We know enough about spore ejection dynamics to spray it “when it hurts”. 
>> 
>> Granted, Infections that extend for many days can be tricky. But usually, 
>> bicarbonate is tank mixed with sulfur so you are getting dual action = some 
>> kick back and protection for spores to come. 
>> 
>> Not sure the picture will be sent via Apple Crop. But I attached one slide I 
>> use with growers (from Trapman)
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
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Re: [apple-crop] Liquid Lime Sulfur?

2016-04-07 Thread Vincent Philion

Hi!

I heard at the Hudson Valley RIMpro meeting last
month that bicarbonate is used in Europe during rainfall

That would seem to necessitate repeated applications during an infections 
period. Does it have no after-infection value?

In replicated tests over the years, we saw value in using bicarbonate in a 
“short” post-infection window. (250DH). However, If spraying your orchard takes 
more than 12 hours, these “soft” molecules are not for you. In the same tests, 
Inspire Super or Fontelis or Aprovia are better. No question.


We use RIMpro to time bicarbonate in order to clean up spores ejected typically 
the day before. Timed properly, you don’t “usually” need multiple sprays. We 
adjust to risk (RIM value). If conditions dictate an additional spray, then we 
advise it.


We know enough about spore ejection dynamics to spray it “when it hurts”.

Granted, Infections that extend for many days can be tricky. But usually, 
bicarbonate is tank mixed with sulfur so you are getting dual action = some 
kick back and protection for spores to come.

Not sure the picture will be sent via Apple Crop. But I attached one slide I 
use with growers (from Trapman)

[cid:89B68EFD-75D8-461A-9E20-E50D36FF1ECE@irda.irda.qc.ca]



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Re: [apple-crop] Liquid Lime Sulfur?

2016-04-07 Thread Vincent Philion

Hi!

Normal only in the context of Organic Production only! Part of the 
phytotoxicity is avoided by using a much reduced rate in summer.

I meant to say it’s not a rescue treatment for anyone.

it’s either ’normal’ (organic) or completely forgotten (IPM).

I would also say that LLS is quickly being replaced by bicarbonate. And IPM 
growers are looking into it as well.

Vincent

> Le 7 avr. 2016 à 15:56, David Kollas  a écrit :
> 
> 
> 
> I was surprised by Vincent’s comment that liquid lime sulfur is a “normal” 
> choice for post-infection in his area. My recollection
> is that its use quickly went out of favor when ferbam and captan became 
> available, mostly because of reduced photosynthetic
> ability of LLS-damaged leaves.  Maybe the poor fruit set and lower-sugar 
> apples are less apparent if those sprays are not repeated, compounding the 
> damage.  How are the Quebec growers avoiding LLS injury, Vincent?
> 
> Concerning Dave Rosenbergers suggestion that burning the leaves sufficiently 
> to stop growth of the fungus might be beneficial,
> I have wondered whether captan and oil could be used for that purpose, but I 
> have never tried it.  If no one knows of any such
> trial, I may give it a try this year. I would expect to loose the crop, but 
> hopefully sufficient new foliage would develop to make flower buds for next 
> year.
> 
> David Kollas
> Kollas Orchard; CT
> 
> 
> On Apr 7, 2016, at 2:17 PM, David Doud  wrote:
> 
>> LLS was out of favor here before I started spraying, but I do have some 
>> references and dad used to talk about it - 
>> 
>> from 1944 ‘Spray Chemicals’ - “The disadvantages are that liquid lime-sulfur 
>> is very disagreeable to use owing to its causticity. Also this causticity is 
>> blamed for subsequent foliage dwarfing, injury, loss of foliage, reduction 
>> in rate of photosynthesis, and fruit russeting of apples…Young tender tissue 
>> contains abundant oxygen, and these polysulfides immediately satisfy 
>> themselves by taking the oxygen supply from the leaf tissue.  As a result, 
>> normal leaf functions are temporarily disrupted and desiccation of marginal 
>> cells, or "burning” takes place.  The leaves take on a “crinkled” appearance 
>> and rarely develop normally.  This reaction also offers an explanation for 
>> sulfur russeting during the pre-pink, pink, and petal fall stage of fruit 
>> formation…”
>> 
>> there is varietal variation in regard to susceptibility to LLS injury - 
>> 
>> In your situation, I would be very conservative using LLS until the foliage 
>> has a chance to dry and harden - at least one good sunny day of well above 
>> freezing temps and no more freezing temperatures forecast  - but whadda I 
>> know?
>> 
>> I’m in about the same situation as you - sitting here at 1/2” green, a 
>> couple of long wetting periods and 3”+ of rain at mostly cold temps but 
>> enough 50*+ hours to cause concern - two nights, one 24*, one 23* earlier 
>> this week and two more forecast for saturday morning and sunday morning - 
>> the orchard is soaked and soggy and there is still pruning brush in the way 
>> some places - not to mention high winds for the last 4 days - and 30mph 
>> gusts today - 
>> 
>> I’m not going to worry too much - after we get out of this weather pattern 
>> and I can get thru the plantings I’ll get a protectant on and scout 
>> carefully after symptoms have time to develop - I’ve conserved chemicals 
>> like Syllit, Topsin-M, Rally, and the like and feel like if I need to I can 
>> knock out an infection if one develops - 
>> 
>> Dad used to talk about the year they got scab started at green tip and the 
>> frustrating season long fight afterwards - it was before I was born and I 
>> don’t recall specifically which year he mentioned, but it was a big deal - I 
>> think we have some better options today to deal with that situation - at 
>> least I hope so - 
>> 
>> Good luck - 
>> David 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Apr 7, 2016, at 12:56 PM, David Kollas  wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Does anyone have enough experience with liquid lime sulfur to comment 
>>> on it as an emergency
>>> choice for application before rains have stopped during the current long 
>>> infection period?  It is listed as 
>>> having 72-96 hours back-action in the New England Tree Fruits Management 
>>> Guide.
>>> In my particular situation, Half-Inch Green stage tissues were exposed 
>>> many hours during two of
>>> the previous three nights to 18-20 degrees F, and are probably extra 
>>> sensitive to captan penetration
>>> and phytotoxicity.
>>> 
>>> David Kollas
>>> Kollas Orchard
>>> Connecticut 
>>> 
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Re: [apple-crop] Liquid Lime Sulfur?

2016-04-07 Thread Vincent Philion

If you worry about Captan phytotoxicity, then you should also worry about LLS 
being phytotoxic under the same conditions. Liquid lime sulfur is a ’normal’ 
(ie not emergency) choice for post infection (kickback). However, I wouldn’t 
trust it 96 hours after beginning of rain, unless the temperature was very low.

Typically, we use DH (degree-hours) to describe the post infection efficacy.

In Celsius, we consider LLS good for 250 DH, meaning 25 hours at 10°C. This is 
calculated once the infection is started.

If you calculate from the beginning of the rain, then about 400DH (40 hours at 
10, or 80 hours at 5°C)

hope this helps.

Vincent


> Le 7 avr. 2016 à 12:56, David Kollas <kol...@frontier.com> a écrit :
> 
> 
>   Does anyone have enough experience with liquid lime sulfur to comment 
> on it as an emergency
> choice for application before rains have stopped during the current long 
> infection period?  It is listed as 
> having 72-96 hours back-action in the New England Tree Fruits Management 
> Guide.
>   In my particular situation, Half-Inch Green stage tissues were exposed 
> many hours during two of
> the previous three nights to 18-20 degrees F, and are probably extra 
> sensitive to captan penetration
> and phytotoxicity.
> 
> David Kollas
> Kollas Orchard
> Connecticut 
> 
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Vincent Philion, agr., M.Sc.
Microbiologiste/Phytopathologiste (pomiculture)

Institut de recherche et de développement en agro-environnement
Research and Development Institute for the Agri-Environment

www.irda.qc.ca

Centre de recherche
335, Rang des Vingt-Cinq Est
Saint-Bruno-de-Montarville (Québec)  J3V 0G7

vincent.phil...@irda.qc.ca

Bureau: 450 653-7368 poste 350
Cellulaire: 514-623-8275
Skype: VENTURIA
Télécopie: 450 653-1927 

Verger expérimental
330, Rang des vingt-cinq Est
Saint-Bruno-de-Montarville (Québec)  J3V 4P6
Téléphone et télécopieur : 450 653-8375
Local pesticide: 450-653-7608


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Re: [apple-crop] Copper and Dogs

2015-08-19 Thread Vincent Philion

Hi! Even if the smell was detectable ahead of visible symptoms, it would only 
happen after infection occurred. At that point, no spraying is possible. So I 
don’t see how smell would be useful (?) The only management option after 
infection is pruning out, which can’t be done by smell ;-)

 Also as everybody knows the sickly sweet smell that FB has, Can a dog be 
 trained to alert on FB before its even apparent to us humans?  

The whole point of predicting infection (via computers or otherwise) is to help 
make appropriate spraying decisions, ahead of infection.

Vincent



Vincent Philion, agr., M.Sc.
Microbiologiste/Phytopathologiste (pomiculture)

Institut de recherche et de développement en agro-environnement
Research and Development Institute for the Agri-Environment

www.irda.qc.ca

Centre de recherche
335, Rang des Vingt-Cinq Est
Saint-Bruno-de-Montarville (Québec)  J3V 0G7

vincent.phil...@irda.qc.ca

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Re: [apple-crop] apple-crop Digest, Vol 56, Issue 8

2015-08-18 Thread Vincent Philion

Hi!

I’m not sure I understand:

 Just my personal experience, dont know if any studies made, I think a lot of 
 the problem is copper deficiancy,

Your hypothesis is that copper deficiency in trees make them more prone to get 
fire blight (FB)?

Your dormant/Spring sprays of copper knock down bacteria populations, so it’s 
not surprising you see less FB. This is why copper is routinely recommended. 
But because of russet on certain cultivars, this is not a popular solution with 
growers.

 mine. Most of my FB is shoot blight, I think strep sprays are a waste of $$$.

It’s true strep is not useful if conditions favorable for FB are not 
encountered during bloom.

But strep is a life saving investment when blossom blight conditions do occur!

Vincent


Vincent Philion, agr., M.Sc.
Microbiologiste/Phytopathologiste (pomiculture)

Institut de recherche et de développement en agro-environnement
Research and Development Institute for the Agri-Environment

www.irda.qc.ca

Centre de recherche
335, Rang des Vingt-Cinq Est
Saint-Bruno-de-Montarville (Québec)  J3V 0G7

vincent.phil...@irda.qc.ca

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Re: [apple-crop] apple-crop Digest, Vol 56, Issue 8

2015-08-18 Thread Vincent Philion

Hi Dave, your answer came in as I was pushing the send button ;-)

We basically wrote the same thing!

   Unfortunately, none of the available models can predict whether or not 
 inoculum is present in any given orchard,

We’ve just completed a 4 yr trial of monitoring bacteria during bloom using 
qPCR and conclusions are simple:

1) Unless the sensitivity of the assay is greatly improved, the blossom 
sampling effort is too important to reliably predict fire blight based on 
bacteria population.

2) The best we could achieve with routine sampling is potentially avoid massive 
large scale regional epidemic.

I don’t see how to solve this at this point. 

Vincent

Vincent Philion, agr., M.Sc.
Microbiologiste/Phytopathologiste (pomiculture)

Institut de recherche et de développement en agro-environnement
Research and Development Institute for the Agri-Environment

www.irda.qc.ca

Centre de recherche
335, Rang des Vingt-Cinq Est
Saint-Bruno-de-Montarville (Québec)  J3V 0G7

vincent.phil...@irda.qc.ca

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Re: [apple-crop] Looking for comments on fire blight management

2015-08-18 Thread Vincent Philion

Hello Tim!

thank you for the article. The last time I reviewed this, quorom sensing was 
not described for E. amylovora.

Vincent

Le 18 août 2015 à 17:23, Smith, Timothy J 
smit...@wsu.edumailto:smit...@wsu.edu a écrit :

Re: virulence of E. amylovora.  Here is another good (in depth) article.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4490474/

best regards,

Tim Smith


From: 
apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.netmailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net
 [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Smith, Timothy J
Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2015 1:17 PM
To: Apple-crop discussion list 
apple-crop@virtualorchard.netmailto:apple-crop@virtualorchard.net
Subject: Re: [apple-crop] Looking for comments on fire blight management

Re:  The bacteria (in the hypanthium) need to thrive in the nectary in order to 
reach numbers sufficient to switch on their virulence. Once this is 
accomplished you have an infection.

Do you have a good reference for me on this specific topic? When I reviewed the 
literature, I only found a few things from Pusey. This might explain some cases.

Hi Richard,

Yes, bacteriologist have been dropping the term “quorum sensing” over the past 
few years, which is a trait within both pathogenic and beneficial bacteria that 
allows them to be non-virulent when in low numbers, then, when they sense when 
numbers are sufficient to overwhelm the host, they all “switch on” their 
virulence, or if beneficial, the next action they are building up to.  This may 
allow them to avoid triggering host defense mechanisms until it is too late for 
the plant to successfully defend itself.

Look on Google for that term “Quorum sensing”  + Erwnia amylovora and you will 
find some good recent journal articles.

Try those below for a start.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quorum_sensinghttps://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v1/url?u=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quorum_sensingk=EWEYHnIvm0nsSxnW5y9VIw%3D%3D%0Ar=VR1vaGJPOzxhk9dUVIL5%2Bg%3D%3D%0Am=jW7ergoT5LqD39LktaREL2bgAhj7venJm67AYoMtfoI%3D%0As=030042055b8c2df784ceff8c21df217091314157e37d12539e4cc7a4c600bfb0

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1082838/https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v1/url?u=http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1082838/k=EWEYHnIvm0nsSxnW5y9VIw%3D%3D%0Ar=VR1vaGJPOzxhk9dUVIL5%2Bg%3D%3D%0Am=jW7ergoT5LqD39LktaREL2bgAhj7venJm67AYoMtfoI%3D%0As=de38e438a398996dab0c9c6a38d5316c3526d9a981b0b0f5f60b8c009e1aa56f


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17092294https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v1/url?u=http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17092294k=EWEYHnIvm0nsSxnW5y9VIw%3D%3D%0Ar=VR1vaGJPOzxhk9dUVIL5%2Bg%3D%3D%0Am=jW7ergoT5LqD39LktaREL2bgAhj7venJm67AYoMtfoI%3D%0As=6010e2c1671af0092105563ed81394abfad76ed01012d04e7b230ef89c997ba2





From: 
apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.netmailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net
 [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Weinzierl, Richard 
A
Sent: Friday, August 14, 2015 2:27 PM
To: Apple-crop discussion list 
apple-crop@virtualorchard.netmailto:apple-crop@virtualorchard.net
Subject: Re: [apple-crop] Looking for comments on fire blight management

U of I Kane County Extension Office, 535 South Randall Road, St. Charles, IL

Rick


From: 
apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.netmailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net
 [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Vincent Philion
Sent: Friday, August 14, 2015 12:49 PM
To: Apple-Crop 
apple-crop@virtualorchard.netmailto:apple-crop@virtualorchard.net
Subject: Re: [apple-crop] Looking for comments on fire blight management

Hi Tim! nice to read you!

 I think there are more sources of fire blight bacteria in the general 
environment in the northeastern USA due to your woodlots and forests (with 
feral apples and native hosts such as Hawthorne)  as contrasted with the 
treeless conditions around many eastern Washington orchards.

I agree! But still is fascinating to see whole areas without FB and others with 
FB, despite similar weather.

We often make “false positive” predictions because of this = conditions are 
great for FB, but not FB develops because bacteria are simply not there. We 
have nice qPCR data throughout bloom to prove it.

 The bacteria (in the hypanthium) need to thrive in the nectary in order to 
reach numbers sufficient to switch on their virulence. Once this is 
accomplished you have an infection.

Do you have a good reference for me on this specific topic? When I reviewed the 
literature, I only found a few things from Pusey. This might explain some cases.

We can learn a great deal about interpreting models by looking at the weather 
data around the time that we are fairly certain that isolated infection events 
occurred.  We can also look at when expected infections did not occur.   It 
would be very helpful to me if any of you would share weather data including 
rainfall, hourly temperature (or daily temps) and especially leaf wetness 
readings.  Please send data that covers days

Re: [apple-crop] Looking for comments on fire blight management

2015-08-14 Thread Vincent Philion

Hi Dan!

  The best we have so far is that it was so dry during bloom in most areas 
 that even though epiphytic populations of bacteria were tremendous, they 
 never got washed into flowers to cause infection. Another possibility is that 
 the extremely dry weather suppressed bacterial growth, something not taken 
 into account in the models. 

The first hypothesis would be my guest.

I don’t think bacteria would be inhibited to grow on stigma in dry weather. But 
high epiphytic populations and no infection trigger are not rare.

Vincent

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Re: [apple-crop] Looking for comments on fire blight management

2015-08-14 Thread Vincent Philion

Hi!

  Maine had two bouts of fire blight weather during bloom, one at very 
beginning and second at very end.

We rarely observe symptoms in relation to the first recorded infection event 
during bloom. Actually, while validating the RIMpro-erwinia model 
(http://www.actahort.org/books/896/896_43.htm), we observed that FB was better 
predicted starting from the 2nd infection event.

Johnson and Stockwell regularly report that Erwinia populations are too low to 
detect in early bloom, so it would be nice to understand a bit more what’s 
going on early bloom.

I imagine moving bacteria from overwintering cankers to flowers as they open 
occurs more slowly than we think, despite temperatures favorable for FB.


Originally fire blight was not a disease that required attention in Maine.  
That era ended about 15 years ago.

We have the same story up here. Unfortunately.

;-)

with only one or two strikes, but a few with considerably more.  Unfortunately 
I think the trees are on M26.  Across Maine. there seems to be much more fire 
blight on Paula Red than other cultivars this year.  Honeycrisp and Cortland in 
this same block hardly affected.

Timing of bloom with weather favorable for FB during Paulared bloom?

be any more helpful than one?  Post harvest copper make any sense?

Nope.

 Reply:   “ It should slow down with trees ceasing terminal growth.

Makes no sense to spend time pruning out FB from August to October. Wait 
November! (After harvest)

where appropriate to reduce shoot growth and thus shoot blight spread.  Daily 
monitoring and removal of fire blight strikes starting a petal fall until end 
of August.

Why end of August?

Don’t leave fire bight cuttings in the orchard as fire blight bacterial can 
remain active in dried ooze for 2 years.
Burn, bury, or compost the fire blight cuttings.

I don’t think you need to worry about prunings. Really.




Vincent Philion, agr., M.Sc.
Microbiologiste/Phytopathologiste (pomiculture)


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Re: [apple-crop] Looking for comments on fire blight management

2015-08-14 Thread Vincent Philion

Hi Tim! nice to read you!

 I think there are more sources of fire blight bacteria in the general 
environment in the northeastern USA due to your woodlots and forests (with 
feral apples and native hosts such as Hawthorne)  as contrasted with the 
treeless conditions around many eastern Washington orchards.

I agree! But still is fascinating to see whole areas without FB and others with 
FB, despite similar weather.

We often make “false positive” predictions because of this = conditions are 
great for FB, but not FB develops because bacteria are simply not there. We 
have nice qPCR data throughout bloom to prove it.

 The bacteria (in the hypanthium) need to thrive in the nectary in order to 
reach numbers sufficient to switch on their virulence. Once this is 
accomplished you have an infection.

Do you have a good reference for me on this specific topic? When I reviewed the 
literature, I only found a few things from Pusey. This might explain some cases.

We can learn a great deal about interpreting models by looking at the weather 
data around the time that we are fairly certain that isolated infection events 
occurred.  We can also look at when expected infections did not occur.   It 
would be very helpful to me if any of you would share weather data including 
rainfall, hourly temperature (or daily temps) and especially leaf wetness 
readings.  Please send data that covers days from first bloom to about 3 to 4 
weeks after petal fall.  Excel files are a real time saver.

We’re Also looking for the same type of data…!

Vincent
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Re: [apple-crop] management advice for hail damaged orchard?

2015-07-09 Thread Vincent Philion

Hi!


If there is no hope for fruit sales!  I would do a good rate of copper/Manzate 
to make sure all fireblight shoot blight is shut down. Manzate has a 77day phi 
so no fruit sales if applied now.

Not sure manzate/copper would be of any value for FB. Strep within hours after 
the storm is good.


I would do several periodic applications of capatan/ziram to ensure that no 
rots develope in the wood, shoots, trunks- ie black rot, white rot or necteria 
canker which can get established- the copper will help with the necteria canker.


I would guess that within hours/days wood wounds would not be susceptible for 
any more pathogen infection. So why would periodic sprays be needed?

Vincent Philion
IRDA
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[apple-crop] Apogee and FB

2015-05-22 Thread Vincent Philion

Hello all, on the topic of Apogee and shoot blight control: Does anyone know if 
the use of Apogee in previous years causes a “long term” reduction in FB 
susceptibility?

The rationale is this:

1) Apogee thickens cells, which slows FB. 
2) FB naturally progresses more slowly in older wood

In the year following Apogee, would the wood treated with Apogee act similar to 
“old wood” ?

Additional question: can FB survive in cankers on Apogee treated wood? In other 
words, does the modified cell structure alter the capacity of FB winter 
survival?

I sent the question to George Sundin, but no answer yet. If anyone else has 
info or literature I missed, please pass it along!

If these are unanswered questions worthy of research, let me know. I was asked 
to submit a research proposal for 2016 and I would include this.

Vincent



 Le 2015-05-22 à 10:28, Kushad, Mosbah M kus...@illinois.edu a écrit :
 
 Ellen: My observations support your conclusion.. In years with heavy bloom 
 Apogee is not needed and did little to show visible reduction of shoot 
 growth.. We did not have fireblight in that block and so it will be 
 interesting to hear comments about shoot blight infection in heavy versus 
 light crop years.. Mosbah 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net 
 [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Ellen
 Sent: Friday, May 22, 2015 7:33 AM
 To: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net
 Subject: [apple-crop] shoot control
 
 This question is asked out of profound ignorance, but I was just wondering if 
 this is a year to skip the Apogee application?  The bloom has been so heavy, 
 it's hard to see whether the shoots have grown at all.  Not much energy going 
 in that direction.  What do you think?
 
 --
 Ellen McAdam
 McDougal Orchards LLC
 201 Hanson Ridge Road
 Springvale, ME  04083
 207-324-5054
 
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Re: [apple-crop] Kasugamycin for fire blight

2015-03-25 Thread Vincent Philion

Hi Dave! Always a pleasure to read you! I always learn something new! 

   1.  Blossom Protect is ridiculously expensive compared to strep.

Of course, I agree. But since we pay a ridiculous amount for strep in Canada, 
BP is almost affordable. We should really start a business = I send Canadian 
pharma to USA, you send strep to Canada.

;-)

 
 So far as I can tell, that pretty much negates the value of our blossom 
 blight models

I don’t agree. You are right to point out that BP is less flexible, but we time 
applications of BP with RIMpro nonetheless. The caveat is that you must spray 
no later then on the day before infection.

 and ensures that the Blossom Protect folks will sell at least three 
 applications per year regardless of weather conditions.

I don’t agree. Once a cohort is sprayed, it’s sprayed. So it’s only new flowers 
that open after spray you need to worry about. Frankly, that’s similar to 
strep. (but BP cannot be sprayed on infection day of after contrary to strep)

Where BP is used, no more than 2 sprays are used in most instances.

  We might get better at timing BP spray with more experience, but we’re not 
 there yet.  

A lot of data from Europe and from Western USA is available. Less in the East, 
I agree.

   3. As noted on the Blossom Protect label, it is not compatible with most of 
 our commonly used fungicides, so you get to pick whether your prefer scab or 
 fire blight.

As you know, No one knows exactly how much efficacy of strep is lost when mixed 
with fungicides… 

  Yes, I know that you have a few fungicide options that are compatible with 
 BP, but without mancozeb and captan most folks will run into trouble.

The restriction is troublesome, yes.

 warning on the label is perfectly on-target, but that still means that BP 
 will present problems for blight control on some cultivars.

Could we imagine “killing off” the yeast once we don’t need it?

i/e Give it time to antagonize FB and then spray a “potent” fungicide to avoid 
russet?

 interesting data at IFTA in Nova Scotia showing how a strep alternative (I 
 think is was oxytet) provided blossom blight control equivalent to strep, but 
 then the trees treated with the alternative developed much more shoot blight

We rate both blossom and shoot blight and I’m sure anyone carrying efficacy 
tests do the same. So, a product with “good” blossom efficacy but poor on 
“overall” FB would simply be rated… poor.

Most (all?) BP results published show it at “par” with strep, so the overall 
efficacy. Not just blossom efficacy.

 Until we get much, much more published data that validates alternatives, I’ll 
 continue to put my trust in strep.

Strep has advantages over everything else. No question.

But very good control of FB without strep is very possible.

  I don’t doubt that one could survive without strep, but at this point I 
 don’t see the incentive to do so.

What market wants, we deliver… ;-)

  Human health risks from using strep or other antibiotics during bloom on 
 apples and pears is virtually undetectable

Unfortunately, the customer is always right, even when they are wrong. ;-)

 that food safety folks looking at agriculture have much bigger fish to fry 
 than the trivial amount of strep that is applied in apples.

It’s not real risk, it’s perception of risk. Something we can’t control so much.

Somehow, we’re back at the Artic apple…

As you know, before Cesare Gessler retired, he released a GALA apple that is 
both resistant to SCAB and FB. It’s not even a transgenic. It’s a “cysgenic”, 
meaning it only carries APPLE genes. 

Much more useful than Artic…

But will you see this apple in the market in the near future?

Vincent

PS, Spring is FINALLY just around the corner. Expecting budbreak on…. April 
28th!








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Re: [apple-crop] Kasugamycin for fire blight

2015-03-24 Thread Vincent Philion

Hi, I’m late in this exchange, but my grain of salt…

First, I entirely agree with Dave… except for this:

would argue that strep is still the cheapest, most effective, and most proven 
product for controlling blossom blight, and I see no reason to use other 
products except where strep resistance has been documented or is suspected due 
to failure of well-timed strep sprays.

In many markets, use of antibiotics is illegal or questioned. I have a good 
number of growers happy to see real alternatives to strep such as blossom 
protect.

In fact, alternating with biologicals or with oxytet may actually be 
counter-productive because they may allow more bacteria to survive, thereby 
leaving larger populations to be controlled by strep and/or allowing some 
infections to become established and thus carry the disease through until the 
next year.

At the end of the day, when a number of trials give results “at par” with 
strep, I don’t see how we can argue that ‘more bacteria survive’


Vincent Philion, agr., M.Sc.
Microbiologiste/Phytopathologiste (pomiculture)

Institut de recherche et de développement en agro-environnement
Research and Development Institute for the Agri-Environment

www.irda.qc.cahttp://www.irda.qc.ca

Centre de recherche
335, Rang des Vingt-Cinq Est
Saint-Bruno-de-Montarville (Québec)  J3V 0G7

vincent.phil...@irda.qc.camailto:vincent.phil...@irda.qc.ca

Bureau: 450 653-7368 poste 350
Cellulaire: 514-623-8275
Skype: VENTURIA
Télécopie: 450 653-1927

Verger expérimental
330, Rang des vingt-cinq Est
Saint-Bruno-de-Montarville (Québec)  J3V 4P6
Téléphone et télécopieur : 450 653-8375
Local pesticide: 450-653-7608


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Re: [apple-crop] Kasugamycin for fire blight

2015-03-24 Thread Vincent Philion

Hi!

 Thanks for the follow-up information, Brian.  Using six strep sprays during 
 bloom, while I can see how it may be necessary,

Actually, I don’t understand how 6 sprays on the same flowers can be necessary. 
Once open flowers are sprayed with strep, the likelihood of building a 
sufficient bacterial population in those flowers is very limited. Of course, a 
few sprays may be needed to cover flowers as they open. As Dave said = possibly 
to or 3… But 6 ?




Vincent Philion, agr., M.Sc.
Microbiologiste/Phytopathologiste (pomiculture)

Institut de recherche et de développement en agro-environnement
Research and Development Institute for the Agri-Environment

www.irda.qc.ca

Centre de recherche
335, Rang des Vingt-Cinq Est
Saint-Bruno-de-Montarville (Québec)  J3V 0G7

vincent.phil...@irda.qc.ca

Bureau: 450 653-7368 poste 350
Cellulaire: 514-623-8275
Skype: VENTURIA
Télécopie: 450 653-1927 

Verger expérimental
330, Rang des vingt-cinq Est
Saint-Bruno-de-Montarville (Québec)  J3V 4P6
Téléphone et télécopieur : 450 653-8375
Local pesticide: 450-653-7608

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Re: [apple-crop] Apple Bloom and Crop Potential

2014-05-18 Thread Vincent Philion

Hello from the North: actually, we’re heading into bloom in southern Quebec 
just now. Gingergold at 30% bloom today.

Vincent

On 18mai, 2014, at 12:58, Win Cowgill 
cowg...@njaes.rutgers.edumailto:cowg...@njaes.rutgers.edu wrote:

Hello Apple Croppers-

This winter was a tough one for growers in New England, New York and the Mid 
Atlantic (New Jersey).
I am wondering what the apple crop potential is in your states, provinces, 
countries this season?

How was your bloom? Good pollination? Winter injury to trees.

I know growers in Virginia had winter injury to apple tree trunks. 
Massachusetts and Vermont light on bloom? How did Western New York fair?

How did my friends in Quebec make out?

Look foreword to your responses.

Best

Win




Win Cowgill
Apple-Crop Co-Founder
Editor Horticultural News
Professor and Area Fruit Agent
New Jersey Agricultural Experiment Station
Rutgers Cooperative Extension
PO Box 2900
314 State Route 12, Bldg. 2
Flemington, NJ 08822-2900provinces
Office 908-788-1339
Fax- 908-806-4735
Email: cowg...@njaes.rutgers.edumailto:cowg...@njaes.rutgers.edu
www.horticulturalnews.org/http://www.horticulturalnews.org/
www.virtualorchard.net/http://www.virtualorchard.net/
http://virtualorchard.net/njfruitfocus/index.html
www.appletesters.nethttp://www.appletesters.net/


hortnewscover50percent.jpg


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Re: [apple-crop] Late summer drop and fruit size

2014-01-16 Thread Vincent Philion

Hello, sorry for the delay.

Yes, correct. Crop load influenced fruit weight notwithstanding ReTain. Fruits 
left on tree at harvest were more numerous and larger when treated with Retain. 
Fruits were up to 56g larger (148g vs 92g) depending on the specifics of the 
ReTain application.

What I also found interesting was that the average fruit pressure of retain 
treated fruit significantly dropped for fruit left on the trees. As if the 
fruit stuck to the tree with Retain, and continued to grow but got softer.

 The Brix index was also influenced by the number of fruits on the tree: lower 
Brix on trees with more fruit. Retain also increased sugar content.

Not much else to report.

I’m not usually into physiology. This was a “accidental” project for us!

Vincent

On 14janv., 2014, at 16:41, David Kollas 
kol...@sbcglobal.netmailto:kol...@sbcglobal.net wrote:


Vincent:

As I understand your most recent explanation, both the untreated and the 
ReTain-treated trees
produced greater fruit size at harvest if they were borne on trees most 
heavily-set at start of
experiment. And that the ReTain treated trees showed a greater size/initial 
number of fruit than did the
untreated.  If the difference in fruit size for treated versus untreated is 
small, I would not be much
bothered by it. Can you tell us how much different they were?

David Kollas

On Jan 14, 2014, at 12:26 PM, Vincent Philion 
vincent.phil...@irda.qc.camailto:vincent.phil...@irda.qc.ca wrote:

Hello!

Thank you all for your input!

I did not explain why I was looking at drop and fruit size: it was an 
experiment on the use of ReTain.

In the end I’m not sure I can pinpoint the reason this increased fruit size on 
trees with more apples (notwithstanding ReTain), but your input underlined that 
a number of variables can be involved! I liked Duane’s idea.

If you’re curious, the report will read: ReTain Treatments significantly 
increased harvested McIntosh yield as compared to the control (p0.0001).  
Average fruit size at harvest was proportional to the total number of fruits on 
the trees present at the start of the experiment (p=0.01) and fruits treated 
with ReTain were larger than in the control (p=0.02).

The effect of ReTain on harvest was expected (drop prevention) but the effect 
on fruit size was undetectable if the model was not adjusted to the initial 
crop load (thus my question)

So the next question is now: why are ReTain treated fruits bigger than 
untreated fruit at harvest?

bye for now,

Vincent


On 14janv., 2014, at 10:06, Duane Greene 
dgre...@pssci.umass.edumailto:dgre...@pssci.umass.edu wrote:


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Re: [apple-crop] Late summer drop and fruit size

2014-01-14 Thread Vincent Philion

Hello!

Thank you all for your input!

I did not explain why I was looking at drop and fruit size: it was an 
experiment on the use of ReTain.

In the end I’m not sure I can pinpoint the reason this increased fruit size on 
trees with more apples (notwithstanding ReTain), but your input underlined that 
a number of variables can be involved! I liked Duane’s idea.

If you’re curious, the report will read: ReTain Treatments significantly 
increased harvested McIntosh yield as compared to the control (p0.0001).  
Average fruit size at harvest was proportional to the total number of fruits on 
the trees present at the start of the experiment (p=0.01) and fruits treated 
with ReTain were larger than in the control (p=0.02).

The effect of ReTain on harvest was expected (drop prevention) but the effect 
on fruit size was undetectable if the model was not adjusted to the initial 
crop load (thus my question)

So the next question is now: why are ReTain treated fruits bigger than 
untreated fruit at harvest?

bye for now,

Vincent


On 14janv., 2014, at 10:06, Duane Greene 
dgre...@pssci.umass.edumailto:dgre...@pssci.umass.edu wrote:

Hello Vincent,

I usually am not an active participant in post but I thought that I might 
weigh in on your comment since I have been doing preharvest drop research for a 
number of years.  Jim Krupa our technical assistant has been involved and he 
expressed an interest in doing an experiment to find out a little more about 
why fruit drop?  The experiment was done on McIntosh and Delicious over two 
seasons.  Briefly, 6 to 10 trees were selected.  Half were designated to be 
drop trees and half were designated to be harvest trees.  The experiment was 
carried out from the time the first fruit dropped until most of the fruit were 
on the ground.  Each morning fruit under the drop tree were picked up and taken 
to the lab where they were weighed and internal ethylene was determined on each 
fruit.  Red color, flesh firmness, soluble solids and starch rating were 
determined and seed number counted.  This was repeated for fruit that dropped 
at 3:00 pm.  Three times a week 10 fruit were harvested from the harvest trees 
and similarly processed.  Seed number was not associated with fruit weight or 
drop although this has been documented in the literature.  I suspect that this 
may be an issue when there are 0, 1 or 2 seeds per fruit but that was not the 
case here.  The conclusion that we came to was all fruit that dropped were 
climacteric and showed signs of ripening (internal ethylene greater than 1 ppm, 
increased red color and reduced starch content).

The appropriate question to ask then may be why did the fruit that drop 
ripen early?  We know from research done here in the 1980s that fruit with very 
low seed number are also low in calcium.  Fruit low in calcium may ripen 
earlier.  I offer another explanation.

Many of you know that recent reserach has indicated that a carbohydrate 
balance deficiency in trees druing June drop is a factor that infouences 
thinner response as well as the severity of June drop.  This is based on the 
original work of Alan Lakso and taken to the field by Terence Robinson.  The 
model is good and the practical application for thinning is important.  
However, if one looks at the carbon balance in Alan's model over the growing 
season you will note two things.  First, there is likely to be a deficit during 
the June drop period and this has been highly publicized.  A second period of 
deficit occurs at harvest time and this has been largely ingnored.  It makes 
perfect sense since as fruit ripen there is a large increase in respiration 
(climacteric) which fuels the synthesis of enzymes involved with ripening.  
Vincent mentioned that were might be a shelf shedding mechanism in trees.  When 
trees have a carbohydrate deficit they must respond.  In some instances this 
response is shedding of fruit.  Even with fruit it is survival of the fittest.  
This occurs at June drop, why not at harvest?  Drop is frequently controlled by 
spurs.  If spurs are shaded or leaf area is small then the fruit on these spurs 
are most likely to drop early.  Mite damaged trees also show early drop.

We have followed drop from McIntosh over the course of the season which 
often occurs over a 7 week period.  Fruit increase in size about 1% per day 
they are on the tree.  Consequently, it is not surprising that average fruit 
sized will increase over the harvest season.  This is one of the attributes of 
using drop control compounds.

I am not sure if I have helped in this discussion but drop can be 
precipitated by several events (seed number, heat, lack of light, reduced leaf 
area, damaged leaves, etc) but I do believe it comes right back to any factor 
that stimulates ripening will lead to increased drop.

Duane



On 1/13/2014 12:12 PM, Vincent Philion wrote:
Hello, I’m analyzing some data and I have seemingly contradictory results. I’m 
hoping

[apple-crop] Late summer drop and fruit size

2014-01-13 Thread Vincent Philion

Hello, I’m analyzing some data and I have seemingly contradictory results. I’m
hoping someone can comment and make sense of this:

For a number of randomly selected trees, fruit drop was recorded starting late
summer until harvest. For each tree, we recorded total fruit drop (and weight),
harvested fruit (and weight) and the total (drop + harvest). As I was looking
at the data, I noticed average harvested fruit size (weight/number) was related
to Total fruits per tree… Nothing strange, until I realized harvested fruit
size INCREASED with Total fruit number on tree. As if the fruit dropping left
more energy for the remaining fruits to grow?

I was expecting harvested fruit size to be smaller on trees that had more total
fruit, not the other way around.

I’m not sure this late natural fruit drop can be compared to very late hand
thinning, but does anyone know if fruit size increase can be linked to late
thinning (notwithstanding total yield that can go down)?

Maybe this is “normal”?

Any comment welcome!

Vincent

[http://www.irda.qc.ca/assets/client/img/logo.png]
http://www.irda.qc.ca/assets/client/img/logo.png

Vincent Philion,M.Sc. agr. Microbiologiste

Phytopathologiste pomiculture

Institut de recherche et de développement en agro-environnement

Research and Development Institute for the Agri-Environment

www.irda.qc.cahttp://www.irda.qc.ca/

Centre de recherche

335, Rang des Vingt-Cinq Est

Saint-Bruno-de-Montarville (Québec) J3V 0G7

vincent.phil...@irda.qc.camailto:vincent.phil...@irda.qc.ca

Bureau: 450 653-7368 poste 350

Cellulaire: 514-623-8275

Skype: VENTURIA

Télécopie: 450 653-1927

Verger expérimental

330, Rang des vingt-cinq Est

Saint-Bruno-de-Montarville (Québec) J3V 4P6

Téléphone et télécopieur : 450 653-8375

Local pesticide: 450-653-7608

Pour nous trouver, cliquer sur le lien:

Laboratoirehttps://plus.google.com/113874173074370918274/about?gl=CAhl=fr-CA

Vergerhttps://www.google.ca/maps/preview#!q=verger+irdadata=!4m15!2m14!1m13!1s0x4cc9016b3e604b3d:0x9e4816f2e6bea640!3m8!1m3!1d212357!2d-71.3416925!3d46.8563685!3m2!1i1324!2i934!4f13.1!4m2!3d45.543389!4d-73.341551

Fiers héritiers du travail des frères Saint-Gabri :
http://arboretum8gabrielis.wordpress.comhttp://arboretum8gabrielis.wordpress.com/

Like most of the data I deal with, I'm best described as either zero inflated
Poisson, or zero inflated negative binomial. Anything but Normal.

Un expert est une personne qui a fait toutes les erreurs qui peuvent être
faites dans un domaine très étroit.

~ Niels Bohr

C'est pas parce qu'ils sont nombreux à avoir tort qu'ils ont raison…

~ Coluche

To call in the statistician after the experiment is done may be no more than
asking him to perform a post-mortem examination: he may be able to say what the
experiment died of.

~ Sir Ronald Aylmer Fisher

The plural of anecdote is not data.

~ Roger Brinner

The combination of some data and an aching desire for an answer does not ensure
that a reasonable answer can be extracted from a given body of data.

~ John Tukey

Prediction is difficult, especially of the future.

~ Mark Twain (also attributed to Niels Bohr and Yogi Berra)

There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.

~ Mark Twain or Disraeli

Without deviation from the norm, Progress is not possible.

~ Frank Zappa

If you don’t know where you are going, you will wind up somewhere else.

~ Yogi Berra

You can see a lot just by looking.

~ Yogi Berra

Poor, but proudly at the highest step I'm qualified for.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Principle

Inhibiteur de rodomontades depuis 1992.

Ce que l'on conçoit bien s'énonce clairement, et les mots pour le dire arrivent
aisément.

~ Nicolas Boileau-Despréaux

Vingt fois sur le métier remettez votre ouvrage

~ Nicolas Boileau-Despréaux

Keep your stick on the ice

~ The Red Green show

Quid quid latine dictum sit, altim videtur.

~ Stéphane Laporte

Audi alteram partem

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Re: [apple-crop] M9-Nic29 winter hardiness

2013-10-24 Thread Vincent Philion

Are you really sure you want HoneyCrisp/B9 ?

Sounds to me like a combination that will result in trees that won’t grow 
enough.

Vincent Philion
IRDA


On 24oct., 2013, at 15:12, Hugh Thomas 
hughthoma...@gmail.commailto:hughthoma...@gmail.com wrote:

Thanks Gary.  If you have any Honeycrisp on Bud 9 please let me know.  Looking 
for 1400 trees 1/2 inch or better if possible...

Hugh Thomas

406-214-8461  hughthoma...@gmail.commailto:hughthoma...@gmail.com


On Thu, Oct 24, 2013 at 10:33 AM, Gary Snyder 
g...@c-onursery.commailto:g...@c-onursery.com wrote:
Hugh:
According to the Washington Tree Fruit Research Commission M9-Nic29 rootstock 
is under the category of (fair) for cold hardiness.
Their rankings range Tolerant, Good and Fair.
Gary Snyder
C  O Nursery

From: 
apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.netmailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net
 
[mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.netmailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net]
 On Behalf Of Hugh Thomas
Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2013 10:18 AM
To: Apple-crop discussion list
Subject: [apple-crop] M9-Nic29 winter hardiness

Does anyone have any experience with the winter hardiness of M9-Nic29 rootstock?

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Vincent Philion, agr., M.Sc.
Microbiologiste/Phytopathologiste (pomiculture)

Institut de recherche et de développement en agro-environnement
Research and Development Institute for the Agri-Environment

www.irda.qc.cahttp://www.irda.qc.ca

Centre de recherche
335, Rang des Vingt-Cinq Est
Saint-Bruno-de-Montarville (Québec)  J3V 0G7

vincent.phil...@irda.qc.camailto:vincent.phil...@irda.qc.ca

Bureau: 450 653-7368 poste 350
Cellulaire: 514-623-8275
Skype: VENTURIA
Télécopie: 450 653-1927

Verger expérimental
330, Rang des vingt-cinq Est
Saint-Bruno-de-Montarville (Québec)  J3V 4P6
Téléphone et télécopieur : 450 653-8375
Local pesticide: 450-653-7608


Pour nous trouver, cliquer sur le lien:
Laboratoirehttp://maps.google.ca/maps/place?cid=9609486867104665866q=irda+pfihl=frsll=45.557814,-73.360476sspn=8.87586,1.961403ie=UTF8ll=45.557814,-73.360476spn=0,0z=16
Vergerhttp://maps.google.ca/maps/place?cid=11405391288824931904q=verger+irdahl=frsll=45.54961,-73.350585sspn=0.012504,0.018389ie=UTF8ll=45.54961,-73.350585spn=0,0z=16

Fiers héritiers du travail des frères Saint-Gabriel: 
http://arboretum8gabrielis.wordpress.com

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Re: [apple-crop] M9-Nic29 winter hardiness

2013-10-24 Thread Vincent Philion

Hi! As a plant pathologist, I love B9 because it is tolerant to fireblight. 
We’ve grown nice and productive trees on B9. However, I agree with Mr. Norton = 
our experience with HoneyCrisp/B9 is not a good one.

Vincent

On 24oct., 2013, at 15:45, 
dmnor...@royaloakfarmorchard.commailto:dmnor...@royaloakfarmorchard.com 
dmnor...@royaloakfarmorchard.commailto:dmnor...@royaloakfarmorchard.com 
wrote:

Hugh,  we have been growing Granny Smith, Zestar and Pristine here at Royal Oak 
Farm on M9 in far northern Illinois for about 4 years now and have had good 
results.  We also have Honeycrisp on Bud9 planted at the same time and they are 
half the size of the M9.  We have decided to not use Bud9 again due to its slow 
growth pattern for our silty clay loam soil type.   Hope this helps!

Dennis Norton
Royal Oak Farm Orchard
15908 Hebron Rd.
Harvard, IL 60033-9357
Office (815) 648-4467
Mobile (815) 228-2174
Fax (609) 228-2174
http://www.royaloakfarmorchard.comhttp://www.royaloakfarmorchard.com/
http://www.theorchardkeeper.blogspot.comhttp://www.theorchardkeeper.blogspot.com/
- Original Message -
From: Gary Snydermailto:g...@c-onursery.com
To: Apple-crop discussion listmailto:apple-crop@virtualorchard.net
Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2013 12:33 PM
Subject: Re: [apple-crop] M9-Nic29 winter hardiness

Hugh:
According to the Washington Tree Fruit Research Commission M9-Nic29 rootstock 
is under the category of (fair) for cold hardiness.
Their rankings range Tolerant, Good and Fair.
Gary Snyder
C  O Nursery

From: 
apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.netmailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net
 
[mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.netmailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net]
 On Behalf Of Hugh Thomas
Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2013 10:18 AM
To: Apple-crop discussion list
Subject: [apple-crop] M9-Nic29 winter hardiness

Does anyone have any experience with the winter hardiness of M9-Nic29 rootstock?



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apple-crop@virtualorchard.netmailto:apple-crop@virtualorchard.net
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Vincent Philion, agr., M.Sc.
Microbiologiste/Phytopathologiste (pomiculture)

Institut de recherche et de développement en agro-environnement
Research and Development Institute for the Agri-Environment

www.irda.qc.cahttp://www.irda.qc.ca

Centre de recherche
335, Rang des Vingt-Cinq Est
Saint-Bruno-de-Montarville (Québec)  J3V 0G7

vincent.phil...@irda.qc.camailto:vincent.phil...@irda.qc.ca

Bureau: 450 653-7368 poste 350
Cellulaire: 514-623-8275
Skype: VENTURIA
Télécopie: 450 653-1927

Verger expérimental
330, Rang des vingt-cinq Est
Saint-Bruno-de-Montarville (Québec)  J3V 4P6
Téléphone et télécopieur : 450 653-8375
Local pesticide: 450-653-7608


Pour nous trouver, cliquer sur le lien:
Laboratoirehttp://maps.google.ca/maps/place?cid=9609486867104665866q=irda+pfihl=frsll=45.557814,-73.360476sspn=8.87586,1.961403ie=UTF8ll=45.557814,-73.360476spn=0,0z=16
Vergerhttp://maps.google.ca/maps/place?cid=11405391288824931904q=verger+irdahl=frsll=45.54961,-73.350585sspn=0.012504,0.018389ie=UTF8ll=45.54961,-73.350585spn=0,0z=16

Fiers héritiers du travail des frères Saint-Gabriel: 
http://arboretum8gabrielis.wordpress.com

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[apple-crop] The Nova Scotia phytoplasma that never was...

2013-10-24 Thread Vincent Philion

Hello all, for the better part of 2013, the CFIA (Canadian agency) worried the 
whole industry by reporting a case of apple proliferation phytoplasma (APP) in 
Canada.

We now learn that after intensive sampling, the whole thing was a dud.

I’m personally relieved because APP is a serious issue, but not amused.

When I think about the growers that were affected by the mandatory quarantine, 
the american nursery involved, time wasted, stress, etc

Not good, hey?

;-)

Vincent

Begin forwarded message:

From: Charlene Green 
charlene.gr...@inspection.gc.camailto:charlene.gr...@inspection.gc.ca
Subject: Information for Canadian apple stakeholders prior to the information 
session to be held on Thursday, October 24th, 2013/Information pour les 
intervenants canadiens de l'industrie de la pomme en lien avec la séance 
d'information qui aura lieu jeudi, le ...
Date: 23, octobre2013 15:59:44 HAE
To: Charlene Green 
charlene.gr...@inspection.gc.camailto:charlene.gr...@inspection.gc.ca

(Une version française suit le texte anglais)

Earlier this year, the CFIA announced the detection of a phytoplasma that was 
identified as Apple Proliferation Phytoplasma (APP) (Candidatus phytoplasma 
mali) in one apple orchard near Kentville, Nova Scotia. Through collaboration 
with phytoplasma identification experts from the United States Department of 
Agriculture (USDA), the CFIA has concluded that additional genetic information 
is required to confirm the identity of the phytoplasma detected.

As a result of this initial detection, four apple orchards of the same variety 
and showing similar symptoms were placed under quarantine, including the 
orchard where the phytoplasma was detected. Between May and October of 2013, 
the CFIA surveyed each of the four orchards on a monthly basis for signs of APP 
and collected samples. A total of 121 samples were collected and tested by the 
CFIA for APP and other phytoplasmas. The surveys found no symptoms of APP and 
the laboratory test results were negative for APP and other phytoplasmas

The Pacific Gala trees in all four orchards were imported from the same nursery 
in the United States (U.S.).  The trees in the U.S., that were the source of 
the trees in the four orchards, were tested in 2013 and all results were 
negative for APP.

As a result of negative surveys and test results, the CFIA cannot confirm the 
identity of the phytoplasma.  Consequently, the four orchards have been 
released from quarantine.  With the support and cooperation of the producer, 
the CFIA will continue to monitor the orchard where the phytoplasma was 
detected.

If you have questions regarding this issue, please contact Charlene Green by 
email or by phone at 905-938-8697.

*

Précédemment cette année, l’Agence canadienne d’inspection des aliments (ACIA) 
a annoncé la détection d’un phytoplasme identifié comme étant la maladie des 
proliférations du pommier (MPP) (Candidatus Phytoplasma mali) dans un verger de 
pommes situé près de Kentville, en Nouvelle-Écosse. À la suite de travaux 
concertés avec des experts en identification des phytoplasmes du département de 
l’Agriculture des États-Unis (USDA), l’ACIA a conclu qu’il faudrait obtenir 
davantage d’information génétique pour confirmer l’identité du phytoplasme 
détecté.

À la suite de la détection initiale, quatre vergers de pommiers de la même 
variété et présentant des symptômes similaires ont été mis en quarantaine, dont 
le verger où le phytoplasme a été détecté. Chaque mois, de mai à octobre 2013, 
l’ACIA a inspecté chacun des quatre vergers, afin de déceler tout signe de la 
MPP, et a prélevé des échantillons. En tout, 121 échantillons ont été prélevés 
et analysés par l’ACIA aux fins de dépistage de la MPP et d’autres 
phytoplasmes. L’enquête phytosanitaire n’a révélé aucun indice de MPP et les 
analyses en laboratoire ont donné des résultats négatifs pour la MPP et 
d’autres phytoplasmes.

Les arbres de la variété « Pacific Gala » des quatre vergers ont tous été 
importés de la même pépinière aux États-Unis (É.-U.). Les arbres des É.-U. à la 
source des pommiers des quatre vergers ont fait l’objet d’analyses de dépistage 
de la MPP en 2013 et les résultats ont été négatifs.

En raison des résultats négatifs de l’enquête phytosanitaire et des analyses, 
l’ACIA ne peut confirmer l’identité du phytoplasme. Par conséquent, la 
quarantaine sera levée dans les quatre vergers. Avec le soutien et la 
collaboration du producteur, l’ACIA continuera de surveiller le verger où le 
phytoplasme a été détecté.

Si vous avez des questions à ce sujet, veuillez communiquer avec Charlene Green 
par courriel, ou en composant le 905-938-8697.

Vincent Philion, agr., M.Sc.
Microbiologiste/Phytopathologiste (pomiculture)

Institut de recherche et de développement en agro-environnement
Research and Development Institute for the Agri-Environment

Re: [apple-crop] M9-Nic29 winter hardiness

2013-10-24 Thread Vincent Philion

No doubt that B9 is extremely winter hardy.

If you pamper those trees so they grow, it could be ok.

Our Honeycrisp/B9 never filled their space (12’ x 4’)

Others had good results with that combination =

http://www.hrt.msu.edu/assets/PagePDFs/ronald-perry/Rootstocks-for-Honeycrisp2.pdf

Vincent

On 24oct., 2013, at 16:39, Hugh Thomas 
hughthoma...@gmail.commailto:hughthoma...@gmail.com wrote:

My concerns are winter damage.  In the last 80 years here in Western Montana, 
temps have been recorded to -33F.  -20 F is almost guaranteed every year.  I 
see a problem in that snow cover all winter is not common.  My first leaf 
Honeycrisp (planted in April) 1/2 inch trees cut back to about 34 inches are 
now 6-7 feet, and have outgrown M26 Suncrisp planted at the same time, same 
conditions.  I do keep the nutrients at high levels. Ph is 7.0 to 7.4 with a 
silt -loam soil at 3300 feet elevation.  If I thought Nic29 would take the 
weather here I would use those.  All of your comments are very helpful, please 
keep them coming,
Hugh


On Thu, Oct 24, 2013 at 12:54 PM, Vincent Philion 
vincent.phil...@irda.qc.camailto:vincent.phil...@irda.qc.ca wrote:
Hi! As a plant pathologist, I love B9 because it is tolerant to fireblight. 
We’ve grown nice and productive trees on B9. However, I agree with Mr. Norton = 
our experience with HoneyCrisp/B9 is not a good one.

Vincent

On 24oct., 2013, at 15:45, 
dmnor...@royaloakfarmorchard.commailto:dmnor...@royaloakfarmorchard.com 
dmnor...@royaloakfarmorchard.commailto:dmnor...@royaloakfarmorchard.com 
wrote:

Hugh,  we have been growing Granny Smith, Zestar and Pristine here at Royal Oak 
Farm on M9 in far northern Illinois for about 4 years now and have had good 
results.  We also have Honeycrisp on Bud9 planted at the same time and they are 
half the size of the M9.  We have decided to not use Bud9 again due to its slow 
growth pattern for our silty clay loam soil type.   Hope this helps!

Dennis Norton
Royal Oak Farm Orchard
15908 Hebron Rd.
Harvard, IL 60033-9357
Office (815) 648-4467tel:%28815%29%20648-4467
Mobile (815) 228-2174tel:%28815%29%20228-2174
Fax (609) 228-2174tel:%28609%29%20228-2174
http://www.royaloakfarmorchard.comhttp://www.royaloakfarmorchard.com/
http://www.theorchardkeeper.blogspot.comhttp://www.theorchardkeeper.blogspot.com/
- Original Message -
From: Gary Snydermailto:g...@c-onursery.com
To: Apple-crop discussion listmailto:apple-crop@virtualorchard.net
Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2013 12:33 PM
Subject: Re: [apple-crop] M9-Nic29 winter hardiness

Hugh:
According to the Washington Tree Fruit Research Commission M9-Nic29 rootstock 
is under the category of (fair) for cold hardiness.
Their rankings range Tolerant, Good and Fair.
Gary Snyder
C  O Nursery

From: 
apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.netmailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net
 
[mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.netmailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net]
 On Behalf Of Hugh Thomas
Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2013 10:18 AM
To: Apple-crop discussion list
Subject: [apple-crop] M9-Nic29 winter hardiness

Does anyone have any experience with the winter hardiness of M9-Nic29 rootstock?



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http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop

Vincent Philion, agr., M.Sc.
Microbiologiste/Phytopathologiste (pomiculture)

Institut de recherche et de développement en agro-environnement
Research and Development Institute for the Agri-Environment

www.irda.qc.cahttp://www.irda.qc.ca/

Centre de recherche
335, Rang des Vingt-Cinq Est
Saint-Bruno-de-Montarville (Québec)  J3V 0G7

vincent.phil...@irda.qc.camailto:vincent.phil...@irda.qc.ca

Bureau: 450 653-7368tel:450%20653-7368 poste 350
Cellulaire: 514-623-8275tel:514-623-8275
Skype: VENTURIA
Télécopie: 450 653-1927tel:450%20653-1927

Verger expérimental
330, Rang des vingt-cinq Est
Saint-Bruno-de-Montarville (Québec)  J3V 4P6
Téléphone et télécopieur : 450 653-8375tel:450%20653-8375
Local pesticide: 450-653-7608tel:450-653-7608


Pour nous trouver, cliquer sur le lien:
Laboratoirehttp://maps.google.ca/maps/place?cid=9609486867104665866q=irda+pfihl=frsll=45.557814,-73.360476sspn=8.87586,1.961403ie=UTF8ll=45.557814,-73.360476spn=0,0z=16
Vergerhttp://maps.google.ca/maps/place?cid=11405391288824931904q=verger+irdahl=frsll=45.54961,-73.350585sspn=0.012504,0.018389ie=UTF8ll=45.54961,-73.350585spn=0,0z=16

Fiers héritiers du travail des frères Saint-Gabriel: 
http://arboretum8gabrielis.wordpress.comhttp://arboretum8gabrielis.wordpress.com/


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http

Re: [apple-crop] The Nova Scotia phytoplasma that never was...

2013-10-24 Thread Vincent Philion

I agree.

What I find questionable is that they presented the case as confirmed APP. I 
hope they learned from this episode that they should say something like 
orchards were put in quarantine because SUSPECTED of disease, and not claim a 
confirmed case before the work is done.

Envoyé de mon iPhone

Le 2013-10-24 à 18:31, Kushad, Mosbah M 
kus...@illinois.edumailto:kus...@illinois.edu a écrit :

The alternative is what if APP was present and they did not implement the 
quarantine? Think of the Plum Pox virus..  Mosbah

From: 
apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.netmailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net
 [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Vincent Philion
Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2013 3:42 PM
To: Apple-Crop
Subject: [apple-crop] The Nova Scotia phytoplasma that never was...

Hello all, for the better part of 2013, the CFIA (Canadian agency) worried the 
whole industry by reporting a case of apple proliferation phytoplasma (APP) in 
Canada.

We now learn that after intensive sampling, the whole thing was a dud.

I’m personally relieved because APP is a serious issue, but not amused.

When I think about the growers that were affected by the mandatory quarantine, 
the american nursery involved, time wasted, stress, etc

Not good, hey?

;-)

Vincent

Begin forwarded message:


From: Charlene Green 
charlene.gr...@inspection.gc.camailto:charlene.gr...@inspection.gc.ca
Subject: Information for Canadian apple stakeholders prior to the information 
session to be held on Thursday, October 24th, 2013/Information pour les 
intervenants canadiens de l'industrie de la pomme en lien avec la séance 
d'information qui aura lieu jeudi, le ...
Date: 23, octobre2013 15:59:44 HAE
To: Charlene Green 
charlene.gr...@inspection.gc.camailto:charlene.gr...@inspection.gc.ca

(Une version française suit le texte anglais)

Earlier this year, the CFIA announced the detection of a phytoplasma that was 
identified as Apple Proliferation Phytoplasma (APP) (Candidatus phytoplasma 
mali) in one apple orchard near Kentville, Nova Scotia. Through collaboration 
with phytoplasma identification experts from the United States Department of 
Agriculture (USDA), the CFIA has concluded that additional genetic information 
is required to confirm the identity of the phytoplasma detected.

As a result of this initial detection, four apple orchards of the same variety 
and showing similar symptoms were placed under quarantine, including the 
orchard where the phytoplasma was detected. Between May and October of 2013, 
the CFIA surveyed each of the four orchards on a monthly basis for signs of APP 
and collected samples. A total of 121 samples were collected and tested by the 
CFIA for APP and other phytoplasmas. The surveys found no symptoms of APP and 
the laboratory test results were negative for APP and other phytoplasmas

The Pacific Gala trees in all four orchards were imported from the same nursery 
in the United States (U.S.).  The trees in the U.S., that were the source of 
the trees in the four orchards, were tested in 2013 and all results were 
negative for APP.

As a result of negative surveys and test results, the CFIA cannot confirm the 
identity of the phytoplasma.  Consequently, the four orchards have been 
released from quarantine.  With the support and cooperation of the producer, 
the CFIA will continue to monitor the orchard where the phytoplasma was 
detected.

If you have questions regarding this issue, please contact Charlene Green by 
email or by phone at 905-938-8697.

*

Précédemment cette année, l’Agence canadienne d’inspection des aliments (ACIA) 
a annoncé la détection d’un phytoplasme identifié comme étant la maladie des 
proliférations du pommier (MPP) (Candidatus Phytoplasma mali) dans un verger de 
pommes situé près de Kentville, en Nouvelle-Écosse. À la suite de travaux 
concertés avec des experts en identification des phytoplasmes du département de 
l’Agriculture des États-Unis (USDA), l’ACIA a conclu qu’il faudrait obtenir 
davantage d’information génétique pour confirmer l’identité du phytoplasme 
détecté.

À la suite de la détection initiale, quatre vergers de pommiers de la même 
variété et présentant des symptômes similaires ont été mis en quarantaine, dont 
le verger où le phytoplasme a été détecté. Chaque mois, de mai à octobre 2013, 
l’ACIA a inspecté chacun des quatre vergers, afin de déceler tout signe de la 
MPP, et a prélevé des échantillons. En tout, 121 échantillons ont été prélevés 
et analysés par l’ACIA aux fins de dépistage de la MPP et d’autres 
phytoplasmes. L’enquête phytosanitaire n’a révélé aucun indice de MPP et les 
analyses en laboratoire ont donné des résultats négatifs pour la MPP et 
d’autres phytoplasmes.

Les arbres de la variété « Pacific Gala » des quatre vergers ont tous été 
importés de la même pépinière aux États-Unis (É.-U.). Les

[apple-crop] Overbooked Field day in Québec on July 14th!

2011-07-06 Thread Vincent Philion

Hello fellow Apple-Crop enthusiasts,

It seems growers are taking the Bastille and swamped registration.

At this point, we are no longer offering a free lunch for people registering 
for our July 14th field day. Nonetheless, it is still possible to attend and 
there are restaurants not  far from the station.

Many topics will be discussed, including our new fixed sprinkler system for 
pesticide applications.

I understand the language barrier might be a problem, but I'm sure many 
bilingual growers will be present and happy to translate things in an informal 
way.

All the details can be found at:

http://www.agrireseau.qc.ca/references/8/Gerald/InvitatioPO2011vergerIRDA.pdf

Don't hesitate to forward this to your colleagues. The event is free of charge.

Hope to see some of you,

à bientôt!

Vincent Philion, agr., M.Sc.
Phytopathologiste
Laboratoire de production fruitière intégrée
Institut de recherche et de développement en agroenvironnement

335, Rang des vingt-cinq Est
Case postale 24
Saint-Bruno-de-Montarville (Québec)  J3V 4P8
Tél. bureau: 450 653-7368 poste 224
Tél. laboratoire: 450 653-7368 poste 229
Cellulaire: 514-623-8275
Télécopie: 450 653-1927

Verger du parc national du Mont-Saint-Bruno
330, Rang des vingt-cinq Est
Case postale 24
Saint-Bruno-de-Montarville (Québec)  J3V 4P8
Téléphone et télécopieur : 450 653-8375
Courriel: vincent.phil...@irda.qc.camailto:vincent.phil...@irda.qc.ca
Site Internet:www.irda.qc.cahttp://www.irda.qc.ca

Pour nous trouver:
Laboratoire:http://maps.google.ca/maps/place?cid=9609486867104665866q=irda+pfihl=frsll=45.557814,-73.360476sspn=8.87586,1.961403ie=UTF8ll=45.557814,-73.360476spn=0,0z=16
http://maps.google.ca/maps/place?cid=9609486867104665866q=irda+pfihl=frsll=45.557814,-73.360476sspn=8.87586,1.961403ie=UTF8ll=45.557814,-73.360476spn=0,0z=16http://maps.google.ca/maps/place?cid=9609486867104665866q=irda+pfihl=frsll=45.557814,-73.360476sspn=8.87586,1.961403ie=UTF8ll=45.557814,-73.360476spn=0,0z=16%0A

http://maps.google.ca/maps/place?cid=9609486867104665866q=irda+pfihl=frsll=45.557814,-73.360476sspn=8.87586,1.961403ie=UTF8ll=45.557814,-73.360476spn=0,0z=16%0AVerger:http://maps.google.ca/maps/place?cid=11405391288824931904q=verger+irdahl=frsll=45.54961,-73.350585sspn=0.012504,0.018389ie=UTF8ll=45.54961,-73.350585spn=0,0z=16
http://maps.google.ca/maps/place?cid=11405391288824931904q=verger+irdahl=frsll=45.54961,-73.350585sspn=0.012504,0.018389ie=UTF8ll=45.54961,-73.350585spn=0,0z=16


Un expert est une personne qui a fait toutes les erreurs qui peuvent être 
faites dans un domaine très étroit.
Niels Bohr

Avez-vous réellement besoin d'imprimer ce courriel? Si oui, imprimez-le 
recto-verso!

AVIS DE CONFIDENTIALITÉ
Ce message peut contenir de l'information de nature privilégiée et 
confidentielle. Si vous n'êtes pas le destinataire visé ou croyez l'avoir reçu 
par erreur, nous vous saurions gré d'en aviser l'émetteur. Si ce message vous a 
été transmis par erreur, veuillez le détruire sans en communiquer le contenu à 
d'autres personnes ou le reproduire.

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Re: [apple-crop] Field day in Québec on July 14th.

2011-06-16 Thread Vincent Philion

Hi!

Questions:

1) how do you mix and deliver?

For now, we use a large tank containing the fully diluted solution. We push it
in the system at low pressure. Sprinkler heads only activate when we raise the
pressure. (after filling the system). Flushing is done similarly.

2) how much of your system is developed from readily available parts and how
much specialized items?

Everything is available from irrigation experts.

3) I envisioned micro sprinklers for the frost protection, would that work for
pesticides without clogging issues?

We use micro sprinklers without issues. We haven't tested frost protection yet!

4) On a 5 wire trellis (1st wire 18 inches from the ground and the remaining
wires separated by 22 inches) would you recommend installing the system on all
wiresl? Or maybe just the top 4 wires?

We have ONE head for every 2 trees. So only ONE line per row.

I know, it sounds crazy. But coverage is good on upper surface of leaves.

Vincent Philion, agr., M.Sc.
Phytopathologiste
Laboratoire de production fruitière intégrée
Institut de recherche et de développement en agroenvironnement

335, Rang des vingt-cinq Est
Case postale 24
Saint-Bruno-de-Montarville (Québec) J3V 4P8
Tél. bureau: 450 653-7368 poste 224
Tél. laboratoire: 450 653-7368 poste 229
Cellulaire: 514-623-8275
Télécopie: 450 653-1927

Verger du parc national du Mont-Saint-Bruno
330, Rang des vingt-cinq Est
Case postale 24
Saint-Bruno-de-Montarville (Québec) J3V 4P8
Téléphone et télécopieur : 450 653-8375
Courriel: vincent.phil...@irda.qc.ca
Site Internet:www.irda.qc.ca

Pour nous trouver:
Laboratoire:
http://maps.google.ca/maps/place?cid=9609486867104665866q=irda+pfihl=frsll=45.557814,-73.360476sspn=8.87586,1.961403ie=UTF8ll=45.557814,-73.360476spn=0,0z=16

Verger:
http://maps.google.ca/maps/place?cid=11405391288824931904q=verger+irdahl=frsll=45.54961,-73.350585sspn=0.012504,0.018389ie=UTF8ll=45.54961,-73.350585spn=0,0z=16

Un expert est une personne qui a fait toutes les erreurs qui peuvent être
faites dans un domaine très étroit.
Niels Bohr

Avez-vous réellement besoin d'imprimer ce courriel? Si oui, imprimez-le
recto-verso!

AVIS DE CONFIDENTIALITÉ
Ce message peut contenir de l'information de nature privilégiée et
confidentielle. Si vous n'êtes pas le destinataire visé ou croyez l'avoir reçu
par erreur, nous vous saurions gré d'en aviser l'émetteur. Si ce message vous a
été transmis par erreur, veuillez le détruire sans en communiquer le contenu à
d'autres personnes ou le reproduire.

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Re: [apple-crop] Field day in Québec on July 14th.

2011-06-14 Thread Vincent Philion

Hi! to my knowledge, commercial apple/pear orchards with sprinklers for
fungicide application can be found in both Italy and Austria, with some smaller
scale systems in other countries. They are officially legal in Austria. No, I
won't comment on the Italian legal system. ;-)

in your email, you basically list the objectives of our study = test
uniformity, reliability, solve issues with rinsing handling waste. We have
some practical solutions, but I don't see sprinklers replacing sprayers on a
large scale overnight.

As with anything, the devil is in the details.

Perhaps if the system is also used for frost protection evaporative cooling.
Otherwise... Probably not worth the trouble.

The spray application specialist from Ag. Canada (Bernard Panneton) and our
entomologist (Gérald Chouinard) are involved in this and we should have a paper
out in a year or so.

Vincent

Le 2011-06-14 à 18:36, David Kollas a écrit :

Vincent:

Ideas for alternative application methods have been going through my mind, off
and on, for many years, though I was not aware
that sprinklers were being used in northern Italy...or anywhere else.
Calibration, uniformity of coverage, avoidance of waste,
residual pesticide formulation within the distribution system, and rinsing are
problems that would seem to require attention. Having
not actually tested any prototypes myself, I don't know to what degree these
problems limit practicality.

David
On Jun 14, 2011, at 9:54 AM, Vincent Philion wrote:
Hi! sure = everything is public domain =

This is the 2nd year of the trial. In 2010, we had very low insect/disease
pressure. This is highly unusual, but serves as good proof of Murphy's law =
start an experiment on a severe problem and... it goes away. ;-)

This year = plenty of scab to observe in our control plots. A little bit early
in the game, but it seems plots sprayed with either a regular sprayer or the
sprinklers both look good.

The orchard is McIntosh on M9 planted 12' x 4' (2004) and we have replicated
plots for each spraying equipment.

As you probably know, some orchards in South Tyrol have successfully used
sprinklers for fungicide sprays against apple scab for over 50 years.

Vincent

Le 2011-06-14 à 09:41, David Kollas a écrit :

Vincent:

Can you divulge anything concerning the successes or problems with the
sprinkler application trials at this time?
In what sort of planting is the system installed?

David Kollas
Kollas Orchard
Tolland, CT USA

On Jun 13, 2011, at 9:03 PM, Vincent Philion wrote:

ATT1..txt

Vincent Philion, agr., M.Sc.
Phytopathologiste
Laboratoire de production fruitière intégrée
Institut de recherche et de développement en agroenvironnement

Pour nous trouver:
Laboratoire:http://maps.google.ca/maps/place?cid=9609486867104665866q=irda+pfihl=frsll=45.557814,-73.360476sspn=8.87586,1.961403ie=UTF8ll=45.557814,-73.360476spn=0,0z=16
http://maps.google.ca/maps/place?cid=9609486867104665866q=irda+pfihl=frsll=45.557814,-73.360476sspn=8.87586,1.961403ie=UTF8ll=45.557814,-73.360476spn=0,0z=16http://maps.google.ca/maps/place?cid=9609486867104665866q=irda+pfihl=frsll=45.557814,-73.360476sspn=8.87586,1.961403ie=UTF8ll=45.557814,-73.360476spn=0,0z=16%0A

http://maps.google.ca/maps/place?cid=9609486867104665866q=irda+pfihl=frsll=45.557814,-73.360476sspn=8.87586,1.961403ie=UTF8ll=45.557814,-73.360476spn=0,0z=16%0AVerger:http://maps.google.ca/maps/place?cid=11405391288824931904q=verger+irdahl=frsll=45.54961,-73.350585sspn=0.012504,0.018389ie=UTF8ll=45.54961,-73.350585spn=0,0z=16
http://maps.google.ca/maps/place?cid=11405391288824931904q=verger+irdahl=frsll=45.54961,-73.350585sspn=0.012504,0.018389ie=UTF8ll=45.54961,-73.350585spn=0,0z=16

Un expert est une personne qui a fait toutes les erreurs qui peuvent être
faites dans un domaine très étroit.
Niels Bohr

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[apple-crop] Field day in Québec on July 14th.

2011-06-13 Thread Vincent Philion

Hello fellow Apple-Crop enthusiasts,

No, we don't have Bastille day up here, but we are hosting a field day on 
July 14th. Many things on display, including our new fixed sprinkler system for 
pesticide applications. I understand the language barrier might be a problem, 
but I'm sure many bilingual growers will be present and happy to translate 
things in an informal way.

All the details can be found at:

http://www.agrireseau.qc.ca/references/8/Gerald/InvitatioPO2011vergerIRDA.pdf

Don't hesitate to forward this to your colleagues. The event is free of charge 
and includes lunch. However, you must confirm your presence ahead of time to 
get free food!

Hope to see some of you,

à bientôt!

Vincent Philion, agr., M.Sc.
Phytopathologiste
Laboratoire de production fruitière intégrée
Institut de recherche et de développement en agroenvironnement

335, Rang des vingt-cinq Est
Case postale 24
Saint-Bruno-de-Montarville (Québec)  J3V 4P8
Tél. bureau: 450 653-7368 poste 224
Tél. laboratoire: 450 653-7368 poste 229
Cellulaire: 514-623-8275
Télécopie: 450 653-1927

Verger du parc national du Mont-Saint-Bruno
330, Rang des vingt-cinq Est
Case postale 24
Saint-Bruno-de-Montarville (Québec)  J3V 4P8
Téléphone et télécopieur : 450 653-8375
Courriel: vincent.phil...@irda.qc.camailto:vincent.phil...@irda.qc.ca
Site Internet:www.irda.qc.cahttp://www.irda.qc.ca

Pour nous trouver:
Laboratoire:http://maps.google.ca/maps/place?cid=9609486867104665866q=irda+pfihl=frsll=45.557814,-73.360476sspn=8.87586,1.961403ie=UTF8ll=45.557814,-73.360476spn=0,0z=16
http://maps.google.ca/maps/place?cid=9609486867104665866q=irda+pfihl=frsll=45.557814,-73.360476sspn=8.87586,1.961403ie=UTF8ll=45.557814,-73.360476spn=0,0z=16http://maps.google.ca/maps/place?cid=9609486867104665866q=irda+pfihl=frsll=45.557814,-73.360476sspn=8.87586,1.961403ie=UTF8ll=45.557814,-73.360476spn=0,0z=16%0A

http://maps.google.ca/maps/place?cid=9609486867104665866q=irda+pfihl=frsll=45.557814,-73.360476sspn=8.87586,1.961403ie=UTF8ll=45.557814,-73.360476spn=0,0z=16%0AVerger:http://maps.google.ca/maps/place?cid=11405391288824931904q=verger+irdahl=frsll=45.54961,-73.350585sspn=0.012504,0.018389ie=UTF8ll=45.54961,-73.350585spn=0,0z=16
http://maps.google.ca/maps/place?cid=11405391288824931904q=verger+irdahl=frsll=45.54961,-73.350585sspn=0.012504,0.018389ie=UTF8ll=45.54961,-73.350585spn=0,0z=16


Un expert est une personne qui a fait toutes les erreurs qui peuvent être 
faites dans un domaine très étroit.
Niels Bohr

Avez-vous réellement besoin d'imprimer ce courriel? Si oui, imprimez-le 
recto-verso!

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[apple-crop] RE : spectrum instruments

2011-04-26 Thread Vincent Philion

Hello ms Los.

In a nutshell: pathologists seldom agree on anything.

;-)

More seriously, 24 hrs was suggested by MacHardy based on different sources and 
is a OK value.

However, there is field data on potted plants that show SOME ascospore survival 
for many days.

That's one of the many reasons why yes/no rules cannot be used for scab 
models. Instead, the relative risk of each component should be treated as a 
population process with a average and deviation: some spores are quicker, some 
are more tolerant, etc.

... that's how RIMpro calculates risk

Vincent


De : apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net 
[apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] de la part de Los, Lorraine 
[lorraine@uconn.edu]
Date d'envoi : 26 avril 2011 10:25
À : Apple-crop discussion list
Objet : Re: [apple-crop] spectrum instruments

Hello All,

I have a few Spectrum machines and have seen the discrepancies between the 
different models.  As someone else mentioned, one of the reasons is probably 
related to the issue on how to decide if 2 or more wetting events should be 
considered one continuous wetting event.  The NEWA (Network for Environment and 
Weather Applications), http://newa.cornell.edu site says Two successive 
wetting periods are considered a single uninterrupted wetting period if the 
intervening dry period is  24 hours.  When I compare the NEWA data from an 
orchard in CT to nearby orchards with Spectrum machines, the NEWA site has 
indicated infections when the Spectrum machines did not.

Do Plant Pathologists agree on how to decide if 2 wetting periods should be 
combined?

Thanks,
Lorraine Los
Entomologist and Fruit Crops IPM Coordinator
University of Connecticut



From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net 
[apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Jon Clements 
[jmcext...@gmail.com]
Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2011 7:02 PM
To: Apple-crop discussion list
Subject: {SPAM?}  Re: [apple-crop] spectrum instruments

Yea, look at me, given my old(er) age -- the NRVART (Newspaper
Readability Venturia Ascospore Release Threshold) depends on: the
light level (civil twilight, nautical twilight, astronomical twilight?
see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twilight) , distance reading the
Newspaper (far is probably better I am farsighted, oh not really,
actually I am presbyoptic,
see:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presbyopia), font size (obviously),
and whether or not I can find my eye glasses. (Forgetfullness, sorry,
not in Wikipedia, but my bi-focal glasses are no-line TransitionsTM,
CriizalTM no-glare/reflections, about $250 each at Costco or WalMart
if I buy the cheaper frames.)  Oh, and does the NRVART include reading
the newspaper on an iPad?

But BTW, I can perfectly relate to the PDBA fireblight index!

Sorry to downgrade an otherwise excellent discussion!

:-)

Jon

On Sun, Apr 24, 2011 at 6:20 PM, Dave Rosenberger da...@cornell.edu wrote:
 Hey, Dan --
I believe that the reading a newspaper threshold for ascospore
 discharge was a verbal comment from either Gadoury or MacHardy.  Given my
 failing memory, I can't be absolutely certain that my recollection is
 correct. Anyway, this may be one of those rules of thumb that never make
 it into the scientific literature, probably for the same reasons that my
 personal discomfort model for timing strep sprays for blossom blight will
 never make it into a refereed journal.  After all, we're concerned about
 trying to calibrate leaf wetness meters:  Just think about trying to
 calibrate humans as biological sensors!!

 David,

 The original night-time release study was published by MacHardy and
 Gadoury in 89. It's here:

 http://www.apsnet.org/publications/phytopathology/backissues/Documents/1989Articles/Phyto79n03_304.pdf

 In 98, Gadoury, Stensvand and Seem revised this to take into account some
 night-time release, saying that in high inoculum orchards night-time release
 could be a problem. That article is here:

 http://apsjournals.apsnet.org.silk.library.umass.edu/doi/pdfplus/10.1094/PHYTO.1998.88.9.902

 I've been looking all over for the source article for Dave Rosenberger's
 Newspaper Readability Venturia Ascospore Release Threshold, but haven't
 found it. I did, however, find his Personal Discomfort Blight Alert for
 blossom blight:

 ... severe blossom blight infection periods often occur on days when
 moderate physical activity causes me to break into a noticeably
 uncomfortable sweat.  The discomfort comes from a combination of high
 temperature, high humidity, and lack of acclimation to summer temperatures.
  If I sense PDBA conditions when trees are in bloom, then I know that a
 blossom blight spray is needed immediately.
 http://www.scaffolds.entomology.cornell.edu/2007/070507.html#disease

 Degree days and leaf wetness sensors are interesting and helpful, but
 sometimes nothing beats the low-tech approach!

 Dan

 On Apr 21, 2011, at 11:33 PM, David Doud wrote:

[apple-crop] RE : spectrum instruments

2011-04-26 Thread Vincent Philion

Hi! Thanks Julie: I had forgotten about this other limitation of the old 
style calculations: Where to stop?

With the RIMpro approach (boxcar cohort programming) this is never an issue 
because the proportion of spores that survives multiple drying, etc becomes 
nil and drops out of the calculations. Yet another advantage of handling 
proportions and probabilities instead of yes/no rules.

Vincent


De : apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net 
[apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] de la part de Juliet Evelyn Carroll 
[j...@cornell.edu]
Date d'envoi : 26 avril 2011 13:12
À : Apple-crop discussion list
Objet : Re: [apple-crop] spectrum instruments

The 24 hour time frame used in NEWA was decided on by Bill Turechek when he was 
the extension tree fruit pathologist at Cornell and is primarily based on the 
work by Becker and Burr on interrupted wetting events.  Prior to that NEWA had 
used 8 hours.

The tricky part comes in combining a combined event with another event... when 
does one stop combining events.  In some cases, if a dew period is counted, 
then the infection event could go on and on and on.

Julie
NEWANEWANEWANEWANEWA
Juliet E. Carroll, PhD
Project Leader, NEWA
Network for Environment  Weather App's
NYS IPM Program, Cornell University
630 W. North St., Geneva, NY 14456
315-787-2430, j...@cornell.edu
NEWA Pest Forecasts, newa.cornell.edu

-Original Message-
From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net 
[mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Vincent Philion
Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2011 12:11 PM
To: Apple-crop discussion list
Subject: [apple-crop] RE : spectrum instruments

Hello ms Los.

In a nutshell: pathologists seldom agree on anything.

;-)

More seriously, 24 hrs was suggested by MacHardy based on different sources and 
is a OK value.

However, there is field data on potted plants that show SOME ascospore survival 
for many days.

That's one of the many reasons why yes/no rules cannot be used for scab 
models. Instead, the relative risk of each component should be treated as a 
population process with a average and deviation: some spores are quicker, some 
are more tolerant, etc.

... that's how RIMpro calculates risk

Vincent


De : apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net 
[apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] de la part de Los, Lorraine 
[lorraine@uconn.edu] Date d'envoi : 26 avril 2011 10:25 À : Apple-crop 
discussion list Objet : Re: [apple-crop] spectrum instruments

Hello All,

I have a few Spectrum machines and have seen the discrepancies between the 
different models.  As someone else mentioned, one of the reasons is probably 
related to the issue on how to decide if 2 or more wetting events should be 
considered one continuous wetting event.  The NEWA (Network for Environment and 
Weather Applications), http://newa.cornell.edu site says Two successive 
wetting periods are considered a single uninterrupted wetting period if the 
intervening dry period is  24 hours.  When I compare the NEWA data from an 
orchard in CT to nearby orchards with Spectrum machines, the NEWA site has 
indicated infections when the Spectrum machines did not.

Do Plant Pathologists agree on how to decide if 2 wetting periods should be 
combined?

Thanks,
Lorraine Los
Entomologist and Fruit Crops IPM Coordinator University of Connecticut



From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net 
[apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Jon Clements 
[jmcext...@gmail.com]
Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2011 7:02 PM
To: Apple-crop discussion list
Subject: {SPAM?}  Re: [apple-crop] spectrum instruments

Yea, look at me, given my old(er) age -- the NRVART (Newspaper Readability 
Venturia Ascospore Release Threshold) depends on: the light level (civil 
twilight, nautical twilight, astronomical twilight?
see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twilight) , distance reading the Newspaper 
(far is probably better I am farsighted, oh not really, actually I am 
presbyoptic, see:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presbyopia), font size 
(obviously), and whether or not I can find my eye glasses. (Forgetfullness, 
sorry, not in Wikipedia, but my bi-focal glasses are no-line TransitionsTM, 
CriizalTM no-glare/reflections, about $250 each at Costco or WalMart if I buy 
the cheaper frames.)  Oh, and does the NRVART include reading the newspaper on 
an iPad?

But BTW, I can perfectly relate to the PDBA fireblight index!

Sorry to downgrade an otherwise excellent discussion!

:-)

Jon

On Sun, Apr 24, 2011 at 6:20 PM, Dave Rosenberger da...@cornell.edu wrote:
 Hey, Dan --
I believe that the reading a newspaper threshold for
 ascospore discharge was a verbal comment from either Gadoury or
 MacHardy.  Given my failing memory, I can't be absolutely certain that
 my recollection is correct. Anyway, this may be one of those rules of
 thumb that never make it into the scientific literature

Re: Apple-Crop: Patulin in Apple

2010-12-06 Thread Vincent Philion

Hi! Is this true? both fungicides pulled in europe? I know imazalil is used a 
lot in citrus as well. That's big news.

Vincent
Le 2010-12-06 à 12:15, Jose Manuel Pereira Cardoso a écrit :

Thanks Jean-Marc

My problem is when fungicides are no longer approved by the European Commission 
(imazalil, thiabendazole) in post-harvest treatments, and them fungi will rise, 
and high levels of patulin willl be found, and  I am searching integrated 
solutions to reduce populations of fungi, and in turn reduce patulin levels.



Vincent Philion, agr., M.Sc.
Phytopathologiste
Laboratoire de production fruitière intégrée
Institut de recherche et de développement en agroenvironnement

335, Rang des vingt-cinq Est
Case postale 24
Saint-Bruno-de-Montarville (Québec)  J3V 4P8
Tél. bureau: 450 653-7368 poste 224
Tél. laboratoire: 450 653-7368 poste 229
Cellulaire: 514-623-8275
Télécopie: 450 653-1927

Verger du parc national du Mont-Saint-Bruno
330, Rang des vingt-cinq Est
Case postale 24
Saint-Bruno-de-Montarville (Québec)  J3V 4P8
Téléphone et télécopieur : 450 653-8375

Courriel: vincent.phil...@irda.qc.camailto:vincent.phil...@irda.qc.ca
Site Internet: www.irda.qc.cahttp://www.irda.qc.ca

Avez-vous réellement besoin d'imprimer ce courriel? Si oui, imprimez-le 
recto-verso!

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Re: Apple-Crop: degree days and apple bloom prediction

2010-03-31 Thread Vincent Philion

Heading for a record early budbreak in Quebec. Old record of April 9th 
established in 1981 will be beaten by about 2-3 days with the help of the 
temperature in the higher 70's forecasted for the coming days. That's 2-3 WEEKS 
ahead of our 30 year average for green tip.

Of course pruning is not finished and sprayers are not ready.

No Easter Holiday up here this year!

Bye for now,

Vincent Philion, agr., M.Sc.
Phytopathologiste
Laboratoire de production fruitière intégrée
Institut de recherche et de développement en agroenvironnement

335, Rang des vingt-cinq Est
Case postale 24
Saint-Bruno-de-Montarville (Québec)  J3V 4P8
Tél. bureau: 450 653-7368 poste 224
Tél. laboratoire: 450 653-7368 poste 229
Cellulaire: 514-623-8275
Télécopie: 450 653-1927

Verger du parc national du Mont-Saint-Bruno
330, Rang des vingt-cinq Est
Case postale 24
Saint-Bruno-de-Montarville (Québec)  J3V 4P8
Téléphone et télécopieur : 450 653-8375

Courriel: vincent.phil...@irda.qc.camailto:vincent.phil...@irda.qc.ca
Site Internet: www.irda.qc.cahttp://www.irda.qc.ca

Avez-vous réellement besoin d'imprimer ce courriel? Si oui, imprimez-le 
recto-verso!

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Re: Apple-Crop: UK: Organic nutrient levels 'no higher'

2009-08-02 Thread Vincent Philion


Hello,

The right way to find out would be to do two plots side by side in  
identical soil an climactic conditions, one organic, one  
conventional, then compare results after 5 years of growing. Now  
that would be much more believable.




I agree... Except we can't... The organic folks prevent this good  
science by establishing very strict rules on the distance between  
organic and conventional plots. The list of requirement is quite  
extensive: equipment like tractors can't be shared unless washed  
completely after each use, etc.


I know about this because we are establishing a certified organic  
research facility in Québec, and that was one of the objectives =  
running comparative studies.


Once we received the technical requirements from the certification  
people, we understood why such plots don't exist!!!


And of course, if you run any research on plots which are not  
certified organic, the research is not valid for the organic  
community


Vincent


Vincent Philion, agr., M.Sc.
Phytopathologiste
Laboratoire de production fruitière intégrée
Institut de recherche et de développement en agroenvironnement

335, Rang des vingt-cinq Est
Case postale 24
Saint-Bruno-de-Montarville (Québec)  J3V 4P8
Tél. bureau: 450 653-7368 poste 224
Tél. laboratoire: 450 653-7368 poste 229
Cellulaire: 514-623-8275
Télécopie: 450 653-1927

Verger du parc national du Mont-Saint-Bruno
330, Rang des vingt-cinq Est
Case postale 24
Saint-Bruno-de-Montarville (Québec)  J3V 4P8
Téléphone et télécopieur : 450 653-8375

Courriel: vincent.phil...@irda.qc.ca
Site Internet: www.irda.qc.ca

Avez-vous réellement besoin d'imprimer ce courriel? Si oui, imprimez- 
le recto-verso!


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Re: Apple-Crop: LA Times Re: organic

2009-07-21 Thread Vincent Philion

 away from delicious  
moorpark apricots if they're not certified organic, We have many  
local growers that are not certified, but make an extra effort to  
use as little pesticide as possible, and they should not be  
punished by the consumer.


My orchard also has the sandy nutrient poor soil that the  
article uses as an example, and yes, even though I try to be  
organic on the pesticides, I complement organic manure and fish  
emulsion with ammonium nitrate and potassium nitrate whenever a  
tree shows major nitrogen deficiencies. I don't sell my produce,  
but if I did, I'd probably give up the chemical fertilizer because  
organic fruit commends a higher price.


With that being said, I will walk away from the tasteless non- 
organic fruits and vegetables at the grocery store. They're  
disgusting, might as well sell cardboard. But when I go to a  
health food store that sells organic produce, the difference is  
striking: the organic produce is so much better it's not even in  
the same league. So yes, there it is definitely true that organic  
tastes way better!


So just because the world isn't black and white, let's not throw  
the baby out with the bathwater. it's not an either/or  
situation, organic is in fact better, but it's also about making  
exceptions. Rules about what to do or not to do don't serve anyone  
well. Humans are given brains for a reason: to use them and not be  
on automatic pilot operating by some rules like a computer  
program: consumers need to open their eyes, and make decisions  
case by case, especially at the farmer's market, because every  
vendor, every person, and every day is unique.


Here in the West, organic farming isn't really so hard. But on the  
East coast, there are so many bugs that it makes it almost  
impractical to be organic lest the consumer is willing to eat ugly  
looking fruit. In my opinion, therein lies the problem: we are  
turning into a plastic society, everything has to be antiseptic  
and perfect looking. And that's the main reason I probably will  
never sell any of my fruit from my 200 tree orchard. I know people  
who threw in the towel because they got so fed up to see people  
walk away from incredibly good tasting but not perfect looking  
fruit to buy the bland fruits just because they're big and pretty.  
To me, an oddly shaped, heavily ribbed, russeted apple is a  
delight to the eyes, and I can't wait to sink my teeth into it.


Another great example: lately, I've been eating a nice crop of  
Espagne pears, a French Summer pear that blets like a medlar,  
a.k.a. turns brown and mushy when ripe, but the brown mush is an  
incredible delight to the senses, like pie filling, like a nectar  
of the Gods, a cross in between a medjool date and a pear. Do you  
think I can easily find an American out there who'd be willing to  
eat that? Nope, they prefer their tasteless cardboardy bartlett  
pears, except maybe the chefs are upscale restaurants, who serve a  
more open minded clientele.


So let the people who are on automatic pilot go and buy their  
produce at safeway, the rest of us can go and delight in our ugly,  
russeted, scabby but scromtuously delicious fruit, organic is  
prefferable, especially if you don't care what the fruit looks  
like, but go ahead and cheat a little. :)


From: Smith, Tim smit...@wsu.edu
To: Apple-Crop apple-crop@virtualorchard.net
Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2009 10:53:14 AM
Subject: Apple-Crop: LA Times Re: organic
This reporter has a fresh outlook.

http://www.latimes.com/features/food/la-fo-calcook1-2009jul01,0,2885942.story



Timothy J. Smith
WSU Extension



--
**
Dave Rosenberger
Professor of Plant PathologyOffice:   
845-691-7231
Cornell University's Hudson Valley LabFax: 
845-691-2719

P.O. Box 727, Highland, NY 12528   Cell: 845-594-3060
  http://www.nysaes.cornell.edu/pp/faculty/rosenberger/






Vincent Philion, agr., M.Sc.
Phytopathologiste
Laboratoire de production fruitière intégrée
Institut de recherche et de développement en agroenvironnement

335, Rang des vingt-cinq Est
Case postale 24
Saint-Bruno-de-Montarville (Québec)  J3V 4P8
Tél. bureau: 450 653-7368 poste 224
Tél. laboratoire: 450 653-7368 poste 229
Cellulaire: 514-623-8275
Autre: 802-659-4282
Télécopie: 450 653-1927

Verger du parc national du Mont-Saint-Bruno
330, Rang des vingt-cinq Est
Case postale 24
Saint-Bruno-de-Montarville (Québec)  J3V 4P8
Téléphone et télécopieur : 450 653-8375

Courriel: vincent.phil...@irda.qc.ca
Site Internet: www.irda.qc.ca

Avez-vous réellement besoin d'imprimer ce courriel? Si oui, imprimez- 
le recto-verso!


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Apple-Crop: Copper data

2009-07-21 Thread Vincent Philion


I don't know if we will run out of manure, but stirring it is fun:

Unlike most other agricultural chemicals, a significant weight of  
evidence exists that copper based fungicides impact on a wide range of  
soil biota.  low Cu concentrations influence a number of soil  
processes including microbial activity, earthworm activity and  
bioturbation. Copper residues remain indefinitely, and will continue  
to influence the health of the soil. »	
L. Van-Zwieten, “Review of impacts on soil biota caused by copper  
residues from fungicide application.”



Copper sulfate is very toxic to fish.
toxic to aquatic invertebrates, such as crab, shrimp and oysters.
Most animal life in soil, including large earthworms, have been  
eliminated by the extensive use of copper-containing fungicides in  
orchards
pmep.cce.cornell.edu/profiles/extoxnet/carbaryl-dicrotophos/copper- 
sulfate-ext.html


the order of toxicity, from most toxic to least toxic, was Cu  Zn   
Ni  Cd  Pb. »
E.F. Neuhauser, R.C. Loehr, D.L. Milligan, et M.R. Malecki, “Toxicity  
of metals to the earthworm Eisenia fetida,” Biology and Fertility of  
Soils, vol. 1, Nov. 1985, pp. 149-152.

(Yes, copper is more toxix than... Lead and Cadmium)



corrosive to the skin and eyes. It is readily absorbed through the  
skin and can produce a burning pain, along with the same severe  
symptoms of poisoning from ingestion. «  liver disease after 3 to 15  
years of exposure. »


Do you think this is from a chemical pesticide? Think again = it's  
from the copper sulfate page.



 « 10 mg/kg of copper sulfate caused endocrine tumors in chickens»
 pmep.cce.cornell.edu/profiles/extoxnet/carbaryl-dicrotophos/copper- 
sulfate-ext.html
J.C. Pimentel et F. Marques, “Vineyard sprayer's lung': a new  
occupational disease,” Thorax, vol. 24, 1969, p. 678.

(Yes, CANCER. From a nice, healthy, natural  organic pesticide)




Vincent Philion, agr., M.Sc.
Phytopathologiste
Laboratoire de production fruitière intégrée
Institut de recherche et de développement en agroenvironnement

335, Rang des vingt-cinq Est
Case postale 24
Saint-Bruno-de-Montarville (Québec)  J3V 4P8
Tél. bureau: 450 653-7368 poste 224
Tél. laboratoire: 450 653-7368 poste 229
Cellulaire: 514-623-8275
Autre: 802-659-4282
Télécopie: 450 653-1927

Verger du parc national du Mont-Saint-Bruno
330, Rang des vingt-cinq Est
Case postale 24
Saint-Bruno-de-Montarville (Québec)  J3V 4P8
Téléphone et télécopieur : 450 653-8375

Courriel: vincent.phil...@irda.qc.ca
Site Internet: www.irda.qc.ca

Avez-vous réellement besoin d'imprimer ce courriel? Si oui, imprimez- 
le recto-verso!


AVIS DE CONFIDENTIALITÉ
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détruire sans en communiquer le contenu à d'autres personnes ou le  
reproduire.

Re: Apple-Crop: Fireblight on Ernst Bosch - what are the mechanisms of re-infection?

2009-06-23 Thread Vincent Philion

Hello, as you know, there is a lot more information on bloom infection  
than anything else. So I don't think anyone has all the answers to  
your questions. Further, many possibilities can coexist with varying  
degrees of importance.


In other words: it is VERY possible to inoculate a tree with shears  
that were dipped in bacteria... But who would do that?


In real life situation, people would use clean shears and cut through  
healthy wood.


As for cankers: sometimes we see them sometimes we don't. Bacteria can  
be systemic within the tree. The tree can recover from some systemic  
bacteria, but this must be limited.


 but long term I can't afford having a single tree harboring  
fireblight in my orchard.


You're assuming bacteria will stay on this tree forever. In our  
experiment, once the trees were cleaned from symptoms during the  
season (several visits) then that tree had the same probability of  
infection as any other tree in the orchard...


Vincent


Vincent Philion, agr., M.Sc.
Phytopathologiste
Laboratoire de production fruitière intégrée
Institut de recherche et de développement en agroenvironnement

335, Rang des vingt-cinq Est
Case postale 24
Saint-Bruno-de-Montarville (Québec)  J3V 4P8
Tél. bureau: 450 653-7368 poste 224
Tél. laboratoire: 450 653-7368 poste 229
Cellulaire: 514-623-8275
Autre: 802-659-4282
Télécopie: 450 653-1927

Verger du parc national du Mont-Saint-Bruno
330, Rang des vingt-cinq Est
Case postale 24
Saint-Bruno-de-Montarville (Québec)  J3V 4P8
Téléphone et télécopieur : 450 653-8375

Courriel: vincent.phil...@irda.qc.ca
Site Internet: www.irda.qc.ca

Avez-vous réellement besoin d'imprimer ce courriel? Si oui, imprimez- 
le recto-verso!


AVIS DE CONFIDENTIALITÉ
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détruire sans en communiquer le contenu à d'autres personnes ou le  
reproduire.

Re: Apple-Crop: Fireblight on Ernst Bosch

2009-06-22 Thread Vincent Philion

. I have over 200 trees and I've never  
seen fireblight here before, so this is a first for me. Symptoms  
included the classic die back with the orange colored droplets.


I've cut the infected wood, and applied serenade, and I've had to go  
back twice now to cut more. I've cut back quite far, yet the cuts  
are still turning orange. I disinfected sheers in between cuts. On  
the last cuts I've resorted to treating the cuts with hydrogen  
peroxide, but it seems hopeless.


Any hope of saving the tree or should I sacrifice it? It's on it's  
fourth leaf. I am surprised that this variety is so susceptible. The  
literature claims it's not especially sensitive to fireblight.


Thanks for your advice. I am willing to forgo organic to save a  
tree, so if there's any sort of systemic treatment that would be  
possible, I would consider it. Serenade is a good preventative, but  
it's too late for this tree.






Vincent Philion, agr., M.Sc.
Phytopathologiste
Laboratoire de production fruitière intégrée
Institut de recherche et de développement en agroenvironnement

335, Rang des vingt-cinq Est
Case postale 24
Saint-Bruno-de-Montarville (Québec)  J3V 4P8
Tél. bureau: 450 653-7368 poste 224
Tél. laboratoire: 450 653-7368 poste 229
Cellulaire: 514-623-8275
Autre: 802-659-4282
Télécopie: 450 653-1927

Verger du parc national du Mont-Saint-Bruno
330, Rang des vingt-cinq Est
Case postale 24
Saint-Bruno-de-Montarville (Québec)  J3V 4P8
Téléphone et télécopieur : 450 653-8375

Courriel: vincent.phil...@irda.qc.ca
Site Internet: www.irda.qc.ca

Avez-vous réellement besoin d'imprimer ce courriel? Si oui, imprimez- 
le recto-verso!


AVIS DE CONFIDENTIALITÉ
Ce message peut contenir de l'information de nature privilégiée et  
confidentielle. Si vous n'êtes pas le destinataire visé ou croyez  
l'avoir reçu par erreur, nous vous saurions gré d'en aviser  
l'émetteur. Si ce message vous a été transmis par erreur, veuillez le  
détruire sans en communiquer le contenu à d'autres personnes ou le  
reproduire.

Re: Apple-Crop: Fireblight on Ernst Bosch

2009-06-22 Thread Vincent Philion

Hello Axel, For three consecutive years we compared sterile shears vs  
non sterile shears. As long as you are cutting in healthy wood  
(obviously) we observed the same percentage of reinfection. I'm not  
sure what data you have to support your claim, but our observations  
simply don't support what you write. In the article we conclude that  
speed of intervention is the key. Anything that will slow you down,  
including sterilizing shears or tree or wound or whatever, is more  
detrimental than simply cutting out diseased branches as fast as you  
can.


The real key is to get as many of these diseased branches off the  
trees. This limits disease spread to other trees. Furthermore, the  
longer diseased branches stay on the tree, the longer they pump  
bacteria down the tree and into the rootstock, the higher the  
likelihood of death. Other considerations are minor.


Vincent

On 22-Jun-2009, at 4:54 PM, Axel Kratel wrote:

I finally figured out what is going on. Because of the earlier  
infection, the tree bark is covered with fireblight bacteria even  
though the wood is not infected. A cut with pruning sheers  
inevitably re-infects the tree at the cut location.


A real important step in controlling fireblight is to fully  
sterilize the tree, or sterilize the cut area before pruning,  
sterilize after pruning, and seal the cut so that the fireblight  
bacteria present on the bark on surrounding branches can't infect  
the tree.




From: Vincent Philion vincent.phil...@irda.qc.ca
To: Apple-Crop apple-crop@virtualorchard.net
Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 1:20:12 PM
Subject: Re: Apple-Crop: Fireblight on Ernst Bosch

Hi! we tried to restart trees by leaving a few nodes above the  
graft, but failed miserably. The darn trees never re-sprouted. We  
had much better success pruning out the diseased portions. We also  
found sterilizing shears was a waste of time. The article can be  
found at:


Toussaint, V., and Philion, V. 2007. NATURAL EPIDEMIC OF FIRE BLIGHT  
IN A NEWLY PLANTED ORCHARD AND EFFECT OF PRUNING ON DISEASE  
DEVELOPMENT. In XI International Workshop on Fire Blight 793, ISHS,  
p. 313-320.


Vincent


On 18-Jun-2009, at 2:17 PM, Mark Longstroth wrote:

Good Job Allen.
I discussed that type of program Monday with a grower.

Other sad fireblight tales.
I had a grower who planted RubiJon this spring, which bloomed after  
normal and now have blossom blight.
I suggested cutting back to 2 or 3 nodes above the graft union in an  
effort to save the rootstock (M26) on any tree that showed any  
symptoms.


He also had a block of Idared on G30 which got fireblight in the  
fall (leaf hoppers?).  He noticed 30 dead trees out of 150 this  
winter when he pruned but about half the planting has or is  
collapsing now and he will remove them all.



-
Mark Longstroth
SW Michigan District Fruit Educator
Van Buren County MSU Extension
Email - longs...@msu.edumailto:longs...@msu.edu
http://web1.msue.msu.edu/vanburen/disthort.htm
-

-Original Message-
From: apple-crop@virtualorchard.netmailto:apple-crop@virtualorchard.net 
 [mailto:apple-c...@virtualorchard.net]on Behalf Of Allen Teach -  
Sunrise Orchard

Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 1:01 PM
To: Apple-Crop
Subject: Re: Apple-Crop: Fireblight on Ernst Bosch

Gentlemen:
I certainly agree with Mark to get rid of the culprit tree  
yesterday.  However, let me relay an experience we had last year.   
On a five acre block of 3rd leaf Honeycrisp on B9 and CG 16 (tall  
spindle)  we had some blossom blight on very late rat tail bloom and  
began seeing sporadic shoot blight in late June.  I immediately made  
ugly stub cuts on the affected branches, fired up the sprayer and  
applied  Apogee to the entire block.  I continued to patrol the  
block and reapplied the Apogee about 3 weeks later.  this is totally  
unscientific but we were  able to avoid a disaster.  Granted  
Honeycrisp/B9-CG 16 is not extremely susceptible but we had the  
trees set up with water and fertilizer to grow vigorously.

Allen Teach
Sunrise Orchards Inc.
Gays Mills, WI
P.S.
Let's all dodge the severe weather the next couple of days!
- Original Message -
From: Axel Kratelmailto:axel.kra...@yahoo.com
To: Apple-Cropmailto:apple-crop@virtualorchard.net
Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 11:18 AM
Subject: Re: Apple-Crop: Fireblight on Ernst Bosch

Mark, that sounds like good advice. Basically, I cut once, that  
didn't help. I cut again. if it comes back again I will yank out the  
tree.


I do have a question for the group:

When fireblight die back shows up as a result of flowers getting  
rained on, which of these two reasons would cause it:

1) Fireblight is systemic in the tree
2) Fireblight was brought to the tree from an outside vector.

Thanks.



From: Mark Longstroth longs...@msu.edumailto:longs...@msu.edu
To: Apple-Crop

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