Re: [Aus-soaring] Blanik fix (EASA)
At 03:53 PM 14/04/2011, you wrote: The important bit: There is the price for the kit of ADC ( 6500.- excl. taxes) plus the costs of its installation at your maintenance organization. The important bit was that the life with this STC is now still only the original 3750 hours. Any Blanik over that is still grounded unless and until this organisation does some further life extension substantiation which will be expensive. Mike Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments since 1978 phone Int'l + 61 746 355784 fax Int'l + 61 746 358796 cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784 email: mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com website: www.borgeltinstruments.com ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] The fundementals of gaining new members
At 01:20 AM 15/04/2011, you wrote: Hi Al, Yeah, having fun is one important aspect of the bigger picture. However I can see that you and JP have totally missed the essential element of what I was trying to earlier convey. Consider this: Beyond fun, there is total bliss. Think back to your very first flight in a glider. Did it get you hooked? Obviously this is a rhetorical question, because here you are. But WHY exactly? Moving on. It occurs to me, that having seen, experienced and mightily contributed to many a membership drive over 30 or more years - all of which failed - this essential element has been more or less ignored or not recognised. Maurice Little, as GFA Development Manager, is looking for feedback on the Development Manual, available on the GFA web site. Pull it up, have a look at it, and give Maurice some feedback. Why? Well, Maurice thinks that many clubs in Australia - including my own - are in danger of folding in the next few years. This does not mean that they WILL fold. However urgent action is required to reverse a negative trend. We are urged to think outside the square. I have attached a document that I earlier put up on this forum. The response was at that time zero. This time around, I urge you all to have a real think about the implications and possibilities. Regards, Gary Maybe you got a dead silence from the people at the Kingaroy pilots' meeting because they thought this proposal was so utterly delusional as to be not worth commenting on or thinking about. To be fair, it is no more delusional than what is going on in the upper echelons of the GFA. Mike Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments since 1978 phone Int'l + 61 746 355784 fax Int'l + 61 746 358796 cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784 email: mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com website: www.borgeltinstruments.com ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Music in General
If you've got music in the cockpit and you actually notice it, you aren't well enough focused. Mike Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments since 1978 phone Int'l + 61 746 355784 fax Int'l + 61 746 358796 cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784 email: mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com website: www.borgeltinstruments.com ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Electric propulsion
Interesting interview with the owner of Yuneec International: http://www.aopa.org/aircraft/articles/2011/110415yuneec_working_on_four-seat_electric_airplane.html Mike Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments since 1978 phone Int'l + 61 746 355784 fax Int'l + 61 746 358796 cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784 email: mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com website: www.borgeltinstruments.com ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] 15% cirrus performance gains
At 06:36 PM 19/04/2011, you wrote: Has anyone tried this http://www.deturbulator.org/Progress-03192011-15Cheap.asp It claims a 15% l/d gain at speeds up to 80 kts and looks very cheap and easy to apply. Almost sounds too good to be true. Happy flying. James. Sent from my iPhone ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring Well, the way to test this is to take two Std Cirri, fly them against each other at the same wing loading and see if they go about the same. They probably will. Tape one as described and test again. Absolute measurements are very difficult to do with glider sink rates. Comparative testing is easier and will give better results. Note: When doing comparative testing be sure that the lead glider knows he's lead and responsible for clearing the airspace and checking that the aerodrome stays within reach. Lead may need to change at times. Be sure you have a procedure for this. Unlike what happened last year at Kingaroy with two unplanned outlandings. Mike Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments since 1978 phone Int'l + 61 746 355784 fax Int'l + 61 746 358796 cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784 email: mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com website: www.borgeltinstruments.com ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Electric propulsion
At 03:06 PM 19/04/2011, you wrote: . I suspect many other companies will use yuneec power systems in their aircraft in the near future. I imagine they will eventually release an electric plug and play kit like Pipistrel too (Just my opinion). Todd They already sell several different motors, controllers, battery packs and chargers to anyone. Electric certainly works great in models (my foamie F-35 is truly frightening) and seems to be just OK for motorgliders too. Battery pack life will be the key to the economics. Mike Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments since 1978 phone Int'l + 61 746 355784 fax Int'l + 61 746 358796 cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784 email: mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com website: www.borgeltinstruments.com ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Electric propulsion
At 10:55 AM 21/04/2011, you wrote: On 21/04/2011, at 8:29 AM, Mike Borgelt wrote: Battery pack life will be the key to the economics. Improvements in recent decades has come in the detail control of charge/discharge. Discharge is controlled by the electronics tapering off power output available near bottom end of power available before incurring declining recharge cycles (42% charge in NiM)(battery design for 150,000 recharge cycles), and tapering charge up toward the top (80% of capacity). At the bottom end hybrids have a turtle symbol light up to advise the driver, at the top end 'overcharge' is possible in short bursts (in park mode, stomp on brakes and throttle pedals concurrently), where the driver knowingly dips into battery life by going closer to 100% charge for the benefit of maxing out available power. My NHW-11 now at 11 years is coming up to 270,000 km on the original battery. Two problems with that: 1) you are using 38% of the capacity of the pack so the energy/kg is 38% of the quoted battery capability which probably rules it out for aviation use and probably pure electric cars also. 2) Nobody is talking of using the NiMH system for aviation. I had a ride in a Prius over a year ago. Wonderful engineering tour de force. Gets 5l/100km when driven gently. Drove a 2010 Corolla in NZ in March. Got 6.5Kl/100km city and country. Put the low friction tyres on it , underbody pan and cheap and crappy interior from the Prius and it should be easy to get 6l/100km or better. So you are paying twice the price for something that's going to save you 1l/100km. Hybrid cars are a marketing gimmick aimed at those who can't do maths. Toyota's marketing department did a really good job in identifying a large demographic there. Mike Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments since 1978 phone Int'l + 61 746 355784 fax Int'l + 61 746 358796 cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784 email: mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com website: www.borgeltinstruments.com ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Schempp-Hirth at AERO
At 05:56 PM 30/04/2011, you wrote: There is a report of Schempp-Hirth's presence at AERO this year on their http://www.schempp-hirth.com/index.php?id=126L=1tx_ttnews[tt_news]=412tx_ttnews[backPid]=130cHash=bb9db10985website There are also pictures of the new Quintus. Enjoy . Chris ___ Anyone know the actual numbers for this aircraft? If it and the 23M Antares go to 850 Kg and the max wing loading is 58Kg/m^2 this gives a wing area of 14.65M^2 which with 23M span gives an aspect ratio of 36.1 Reasonably high but about the same as the Nimbus 3 at 24.5 M. Mike Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments since 1978 phone Int'l + 61 746 355784 fax Int'l + 61 746 358796 cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784 email: mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com website: www.borgeltinstruments.com ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Re NZ ASH on youtube.
At 05:50 PM 4/05/2011, you wrote: Well Aerodynamicists, is it really fluttering after the anhederal? Peter Heath - It looks like he had landing flap deployed then went to negative. In the Schleicher gliders the landing flap transfers the lift to the inner part of the wing and the tips then hang down or at higher speeds could even lift downwards, hence the anhedral. Sure looks like flutter to me, initiated by the impulse of moving the lift outboard suddenly. This probably isn't a test condition that the designer envisaged. Fortunately the flutter was damped and ceased after a few oscillations. Mike Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments since 1978 phone Int'l + 61 746 355784 fax Int'l + 61 746 358796 cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784 email: mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com website: www.borgeltinstruments.com ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Re NZ ASH on youtube.
At 12:04 AM 5/05/2011, you wrote: Hello Mike, hello all! Sorry guys, I should have provided some background information to prevent a lot of unnecessary e-mail correspondence. Terry was trying to impress air show crowd by demonstrating the strength and flexibility of a modern glider wing. He simply cycled the flap lever very rapidly several times and in quick succession. By doing so he deliberately induced a wing flex that is well within the capabilities of the aircraft. In other words, NO FLUTTER AT ALL! Once again, please accept my appology for failing to explain this in the first place. Kind regards to all! Bernard Or that's the story and I'm sticking to it. Seems like unnecessarily tickling the tail of the dragon. I think he proved the strength and flexibility a little later in the video. Mike Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments since 1978 phone Int'l + 61 746 355784 fax Int'l + 61 746 358796 cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784 email: mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com website: www.borgeltinstruments.com ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Bonus Jet
At 08:39 PM 5/05/2011, you wrote: ..for those interested in non dinosaur fuel technology. http://www.solarimpulse.comhttp://www.solarimpulse.com Depends whether you are a fan of the dead dinosaur theory of oil formation. Problem is the vast amounts of hydrocarbons on the surface and and the atmosphere of Titan, largest moon of Saturn. I've heard no serious suggestions that it was once populated by dinosaurs. So we have an existence proof that vast amounts of higher chain hydrocarbons can be formed independent of life. Bit of a problem, that. Solarimpulse is the sort of useless project done in stultified, degenerate cultures like that of Europe to entertain the masses and relive a minute part of the faded glory of Europe's age of exploration and discovery. Mike Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments since 1978 phone Int'l + 61 746 355784 fax Int'l + 61 746 358796 cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784 email: mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com website: www.borgeltinstruments.com ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Why flutter is bad
At 06:13 PM 5/05/2011, you wrote: Yes, very alarming. I have had one flutter incident in my ASW-20. Immediately fixed by rapidly raising the nose. It was a hot day , flying close to VNE. Perhaps not enough allowance for difference between IAS and TAS. Repaired top rudder hinge which had slight wear, and then could not reproduce the event at VNE. Roger Browne Which bit fluttered Roger? ASW20s had a bad aileron/flap flutter problem early in their life after they had been in service for a while. IIRC it was caused by the pushrod guides in the wings opening up. Mike Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments since 1978 phone Int'l + 61 746 355784 fax Int'l + 61 746 358796 cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784 email: mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com website: www.borgeltinstruments.com ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Good morning
Hi Chris, That's great news although I was thinking of going somewhere dryer a week or two ago. Nice weather now though. Allegedly there's a new 95.4 out. I haven't looked yet. Regards Mike At 03:16 PM 6/05/2011, you wrote: No more cold for us Mike. We have sold our property and are migrating to Queensland where our children are. GQG will be able to enjoy some G reat Q ueensland G liding :-) - Original Message - From: Mike Cleaver wom...@netspeed.com.au To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Sent: Friday, May 06, 2011 1:14 PM Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Good morning Chris, that's not freezing! Canberra managed a low of MINUS 4.0 this morning. Is this a changing climate back to more normal figures, or just the fact that the pollies are not in town this week? Wombat At 08:27 6/05/2011, you wrote: Good morning DDD. Freezing here 6 degrees DDD oxo ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments since 1978 phone Int'l + 61 746 355784 fax Int'l + 61 746 358796 cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784 email: mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com website: www.borgeltinstruments.com ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Bonus Jet
At 10:15 PM 5/05/2011, you wrote: ...some say oxygen is produced and carbon is sinked by trees. Little do they know that most of that cycle is done by our oceans and the little critters within. Thus most of our fossil fuels originate from our oceans. Let's blame continental drift for it ending up under our land masses. Feasible theory. Same for Titan. You obviously don't know anything about Titan. Are you implying life existed there? But how about the inefficiency of using a turbo-jet engine compared to turbo-fan and turbo-prop engines at low speeds? Let alone extracting and refining vast amounts of higher chain hydrocarbons. Why not use solar light? The nit-ti grit-ties of accumulating electron differentials are being improved as we type. Well my calculations indicate lower fuel burn for a launch than with aerotow and around half the fuel burn of a car for a typical retrieve. Yes the propulsive efficiency isn't great but there are other advantages such as low installed mass in the fuselage. With the self launch and retrieve capability you could operate from airstrips closer to home. More fuel saving. There have been recent developments: AMT now have kero start on the 23.5 and 40 Kg engines and have an 80Kg engine in production (that's not on the website yet). There is a new manufacturer who has a 30Kg engine with kero start (BF Turbine - an offshoot of Behotec) that you can buy right now for A$6500 and a 50 Kg engine running on the bench. Then there's the TJ100 in the Bonus(110Kg). Bob will sell you one along with the engineering to put it in your glider. I think it is overkill for self launch but I'd want it in a jet power plane. There's a jet glider already flying in Oz (ASH25). Could use more thrust than the 2 x 40Kg engines. Political monkey dance aside: the Prius is now in the third generation (Cameron Diaz even likes it...) and the panels on the roofs of those that installed them seem to work as well. Yeah my solar panels do what I calculated they would. Great for me, ridiculous for the nation. Oh goody, Cameron Diaz as a technology consultant. The steam engine, micro processor and electric vario were once labelled useless projects as well. No they weren't. There were readily identifiable uses and advantages for all three. I saw my first electric vario the first weekend I went to learn to fly gliders in late 1966. Just over a year later I had built one to a circuit published in AG(modified). We tested it in the Physics department lift at UWA. It had some problems. I revisited the concept in 1974 and fixed them. Admit it, Mike, you are spending more time flying electric pushers and impeller types than flying jet powered models. I just witnessed one of these oh so dangerous LiPo's being crunched to mush induced by an aerobatic standing 9 figure. It didn't explode nor ignite (very disappointing...) You're sure it was a LiPo not a LiFePo4 battery? As I've said, electric is GREAT for R/C models. You may like to search Youtube for clips of burning Lipos. Notice they charge them in flame and explosion proof bags? Voyager was another one of those useless projects. But it did fly around the world in a single flight. What if Solar-impulse can do the same? So what? Paul MacCready proved human powered flight was actually possible 35 years ago. This has gone exactly nowhere since as has unrefueled around the world flight except it was done again in a jet, faster and higher and solo. If wind and solar energy are so good how come the only use for sailboats nowadays (in advanced civilizations) is fun? Likewise the only use for sailplanes. The change to steam from sail was quite dramatic even with the crummy early marine steam engines. Says heaps about sail. Mike Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments since 1978 phone Int'l + 61 746 355784 fax Int'l + 61 746 358796 cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784 email: mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com website: www.borgeltinstruments.com ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Twin Taurus
At 05:10 PM 7/05/2011, you wrote: To keep the slinging match going, some info for the less fuel to noise converter inclined: http://www.google.com/url?sa=Dq=http://www.pipistrel-usa.com/newsletters/newsletter-56/newsletter-56.htmlhttp://www.google.com/url?sa=Dq=http://www.pipistrel-usa.com/newsletters/newsletter-56/newsletter-56.html Rgds - Rolf ___ Now that is a bizarre looking aircraft. I guess it is for real? It is May not April1? Also check this: http://www.pipistrel-usa.com/models/panthera.html Scroll down and see how the electric version compares with the petrol engine version. Mike Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments since 1978 phone Int'l + 61 746 355784 fax Int'l + 61 746 358796 cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784 email: mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com website: www.borgeltinstruments.com ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Twin Taurus
At 10:33 PM 7/05/2011, you wrote: [] Not quite right there. If you look at the payload of the electro it is only 200Kg, so it is a TWO seat aircraft, not four and any baggage has to fit inside the 200Kg. Cruise speed is 118Kts instead of 200kts. Mike inline: afbb4.png Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments since 1978 phone Int'l + 61 746 355784 fax Int'l + 61 746 358796 cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784 email: mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com website: www.borgeltinstruments.com ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] ASH-25J
At 10:33 AM 10/05/2011, you wrote: Paul Nice piece of engineering and the wing runner/photographer is pretty good too! What engines? Looks like about 400 fpm. Peter Heath They are two AMT Titans, 40 Kg thrust each. That's about minimum you want for jet self launch for 800Kg. Imagine what a 600Kg 18M glider will do with two of the same engines. Airborne performance would be increased on the ASH if the engine bay doors closed after the engines were retracted and the pylon was more streamlined. Mike Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments since 1978 phone Int'l + 61 746 355784 fax Int'l + 61 746 358796 cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784 email: mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com website: www.borgeltinstruments.com ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Foka incident
Lots of lessons in the Foka crash. One big one is how fortunate it was the BGA and there was no second sigmnature on the DI after rigging. Mike Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments since 1978 phone Int'l + 61 746 355784 fax Int'l + 61 746 358796 cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784 email: mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com website: www.borgeltinstruments.com ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Tug tow rope reeling in kit operation
At 04:37 PM 16/05/2011, you wrote: I have flown a DG1000 in Sweden behind a Super Cub that had a rope reel, not sure if it was Tost. On the second flight the rope did no fully unwind, as a consequence I was towed at approx 20m behind the aircraft, made for a very interesting flight. I'm not sure if a novice would have coped, even the instructor had a job staying in position. Was it not obvious that the rope was jammed ? Why did you not release? Mike Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments since 1978 phone Int'l + 61 746 355784 fax Int'l + 61 746 358796 cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784 email: mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com website: www.borgeltinstruments.com ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Foka incident
At 06:46 PM 16/05/2011, you wrote: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary==_NextPart_000_002B_01CC13F9.94B0C920 Content-Language: en-au Geoff your argument explains precisely why we DO need a second rigging inspection! Things do get forgotten or missed (especially by more experienced pilots). I am more than happy to sign off on a duplicate inspection having made damn sure that it is right, why? Not because the risk of litigation but because I care about the safety of my fellow pilots and myself. It is absolutely clear that a second inspection will significantly reduce the risk of a mistake. John Parncutt So Geoff has run the experiment and because the results don't fit your pre/mis conceptions you dismiss the observational evidence. You aren't a climate scientist by any chance are you? Mike Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments since 1978 phone Int'l + 61 746 355784 fax Int'l + 61 746 358796 cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784 email: mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com website: www.borgeltinstruments.com ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Foka incident
At 10:02 PM 16/05/2011, you wrote: Hi Gary It was not a large Vic club it was B.S.S. in W.A. the rest is true, and the A/C was totalled as a result, but the pilot was uninjured. From memory there was a fair bit of legal fur flying around as a result of the loss of the glider. and an A.D. followed to colour code all Glasflugel skew bars as a result of this disaster! Chris Runeckles Chris, It happened again at Benalla with a Hornet. Catch up in the next 10 days or so? Will be in Perth this evening. Mike Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments since 1978 phone Int'l + 61 746 355784 fax Int'l + 61 746 358796 cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784 email: mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com website: www.borgeltinstruments.com ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Foka incident
At 10:16 PM 16/05/2011, you wrote: Hi Ron; A lawsuit like what? You are responding to a mail that hypothesises that lawsuits are possible. There is no actual lawsuit. Read it again. He didn't say there was, just that there is the possibility in similar situations. I sure wouldn't try your legal defence. So are you telling the Court, Sir, that even though you knew there was no way of positively checking, you signed that the aircraft had been rigged correctly?. It might even be worse than a civil suit which even if you win is going to cost thousands to tens of thousands of dollars to defend with the loss of time, stress, worry etc. You might run into a coroner or Public prosectuor who wants to make a name for him or herself and find yourself on a criminal charge. Mike Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments since 1978 phone Int'l + 61 746 355784 fax Int'l + 61 746 358796 cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784 email: mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com website: www.borgeltinstruments.com ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Foka incident
At 11:10 AM 17/05/2011, you wrote: Hi Mike; On Tue, 17 May 2011, Mike Borgelt wrote: At 10:16 PM 16/05/2011, you wrote: Hi Ron; A lawsuit like what? You are responding to a mail that hypothesizes that lawsuits are possible. There is no actual lawsuit. Read it again. He didn't say there was, just that there is the possibility in similar situations. Hence my use of the word hypothesizes - a word that gives his argument more dignity than it deserves. I sure wouldn't try your legal defence. So are you telling the Court, Sir, that even though you knew there was no way of positively checking, you signed that the aircraft had been rigged correctly?. The second signer is not signing that the aircraft has been rigged correctly. The signer is stating that he or she has checked the rigging in a competent and reasonable manner. This is a different proposition in law and in fact. I think the lesson to be learnt from this accident is that, as somebody else here has noted, that DI tickets should be issued on a per aircraft type basis. Plainly, in this case, neither the riggers nor the people who checked the rigging knew how to rig or check this particular aircraft type. It might even be worse than a civil suit which even if you win is going to cost thousands to tens of thousands of dollars to defend with the loss of time, stress, worry etc. You might run into a coroner or Public prosectuor who wants to make a name for him or herself and find yourself on a criminal charge. What is this? Fear Mongering 101? How did we jump from civil lawsuits to criminal proceedings? The problem with your argument is that it is one best tailored to the idea that the best way to live our lives is to enter a windowless room, close and lock the door, and sit quietly in the dark. The truth of the matter is that each of us perform actions and take risks every day in order to live our lives. Any of us may be sued at any time. How far the plaintiff gets is a function of the merit of their case. The best defense is to perform in a competent and reasonable manner. Further the best way to operate our sport is to perform in a competent and reasonable manner and cross checking is an important part of this paradigm. Great , you want to introduce even more bureaucracy and bullshit into a sport already suffering from a surfeit of it. In powered aviation there is no DI ticket. It comes with the PPL. Regardless of whether somebody signed the maintenance release the normal practice is to do a pre-flight inspection before getting in to fly. This is the same as what you do in a DI. You don't have to find some other qualified person to verify the oil level or the fuel quantity, both of which could easily result in outcomes similar to incorrect rigging. Once you take off you are the person solely responsible for your actions, why should it be any different during flight preparation? Many of the people here are missing the point. If you feel comfortable having someone else inspect your rigging work then you are free to find someone to do that. Nobody will stop you. What some people here are objecting to is the compulsion to find another person to SIGN for it and risk their hull and 3rd party insurance if they can't don't get that signature. The Maintenance Release is a legal document. A signature would likely carry more weight than Fred had a look and said he couldn't find anything wrong with it.. This seems an unnecessary risk to your fortune and maybe freedom for something that is of no advantage to you. If you think these bad legal outcomes can't happen I feel sorry for you. I'll take a legal risk for earning a living or some other thing that benefits me. I won't do so so that someone else can get a benefit that puts me at risk and I would not expect anyone else to do so for me. In any case the reason the second signature requirement is there is most likely that it was done to make it more difficult for people to fly outside gliding clubs. I'm not aware of any rigging error accidents in the immediate period leading up to the introduction of this requirement. This, of course, is utterly hypocritical of an organisation which won't investigate and publish accident reports for fear of litigation. I'm sure the GFA nomenklatura and their minions are very active. Pity there is little achievement, particularly in the safety sphere. We've learned more about safety here in the last couple of days than has come out of the GFA in a long time We just had someone admit to taking off the retractable towrope jammed in the tug. Depending where this happened he may have just lost his backup release ability. Here's another possibility: As the combination is approaching the fence it unjams and pays out. The glider is now not gaining energy and may hit the fence. When the rope pays out completely it may break from the sudden jerk. Even if these things don't happen he's now in a higher than normal
Re: [Aus-soaring] rigging controls checks (Foka etc)
At 02:14 PM 17/05/2011, you wrote: Tim and others My belief is that the requirement to have a second inspection performed and signed for is a consequence of an item in the Civil Aviation Regulations requiring a duplicate inspection if, in the course of maintenance, a control circuit is disconnected in any aircraft. And that duplicate inspection must be signed for by the person who does it. Terrific. NOBODY seems to know for sure where this requirement came from. It wasn't around before 2002. Will somebody who knows for sure please let us all know? Since when did rigging a glider out of its trailer become maintenance? It is really normal OPERATIONS due to the nature of the aircraft. In most of the gliding world most gliders live in trailers and it is usual to rig each day or each weekend. The control systems are design to be broken and re-assembled at specific points which are inspectable after the controls have been hooked up. This is definitely not the same as dis-assembly of parts of the control circuit that are not accessible or inspectable during a pre flight check. In some gliders the glider must actually be partially de rigged to inspect the control hookups after rigging. The Nimbus 3DM is one so it wouldn't be a case of a second inspector coming along after rigging, he or she would need to be present during the process. Is his independent? I could also argue that the second inspection is likely to result in the interruption of other people's pre flight preparation with attendant risks. It seems other major gliding countries do not have a second signature after rigging requirement, probably in recognition of the special nature of sailplane operations. The BGA doesn't. The FAA of the US has a specific waiver against a second inspection for sailplanes. It was briefly considered by some after a Genesis lost its tailplane as the tug went to full throttle at a Nationals but quickly dismissed on the grounds that nobody would be dumb enough to sign. If it doesn't get signed for, it didn't happen. Some feel they are happier if a second person inspects after rigging, some are happier if nobody else goes near the controls after they have personally inspected their own work. This should be a matter of personal preference not a rule exposing innocent bystanders to legal risk and pilots and glider owners to risk their hull and third party insurance in the event they cannot find someone to provide a second signature. I thought the GFA was formed so that gliding would not be subject to rules from the rest of aviation that were stupid, unnecessary and inappropriate for the nature of gliding operations. It seems I was mistaken. So what's next? Ban all single seat gliders because pilots cannot be trusted to make the right in flight decisions on their own? Ponder the nature of the insurance coverage for your actions in providing a second inspection. It is the GFA BBL. Not only will you be facing possible legal action from the deceased's family(in the event of death but also there's the possibility of the pilot suing you over injury or damage to his glider) you'll be suing the BBL insurer to get him to pay out. Ask the Lake Keepit Club about what happened after the BBL declined to cover one of their instructors on a minor technicality. They won, eventually, but their out of pocket legal expenses were several times the original claim. BTW if you do hull damage and fail to have had a second signature after rigging and the glider is subsequently damaged I'm told by an aviation insurance broker that the company cannot deny coverage unless the lack of the second signature was the proximate cause of the accident i.e. the controls becoming unhooked caused the problem that led to the accident. He told me this was well established in insurance law. You can take this how you like. You probably will have to fight to get them to pay though. The bloke was emphatic that he thought a company that would do this was acting unethically. Draw your own conclusions In the case of gliders with automatic control couplings there is a good argument that the rule is not relevant to the rigging situation if nothing else has been done to alter the control circuits than to open up and re-close a joint in the system that is designed for the purpose. Which is the same even when the controls aren't automatic hookup. If you think an auto hookup cannot go wrong you are mistaken. The load bearing points can be damaged. The control won't be not hooked up but there may be enough play to lead to flutter. I've had it happen but found it during the preflight after rigging We are unlikely to change this by talking about it - so can we please talk about something else now? Wombat Well we won't change it by ignoring it. Why do I have the sneaking suspicion that you are the guilty party here and /or know more than you are admitting here? Mike
Re: [Aus-soaring] Going off the air until mid July
At 05:21 PM 24/05/2011, you wrote: you could say the same about oil... Yes. I often put it to the zealots, that nature developed humans with intelligence simply to restore the status quo, ie, to liberate all that carbon and to put it back into the atmosphere :) Cheers Paul It is remarkable how many problems become less so when viewed from a longer perspective than the last 200 years of the current interglacial that has really only been around for 10,000 years or so. Not only are we smart enough to keep feeding the damn plants which are trying to pull a suicide/murder by fixing all the carbon into rocks, we may even be smart enough to divert the next big rock that comes our way. And it will. Mike ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] rigging controls checks (Foka etc)
Bernard, Thanks for that. Did you see any documentary evidence that CASA had written to GFA requesting that change? It sounds a little strange because in the GA world one of the signatories is a LAME and the other can be a PPL holder. So do we need a Form 2 Inspector as one signatory? Can we now get rid of the DI rating which doesn't exist in GA? Can we have a PPL(G) so as to comply with normal GA procedures? Can we abolish any GFA control/input into gliding operational or airworthiness matters? Nobody has to join any organisation to fly a GA aircraft. GFA decided to comply with the CASA request. So can we wind up the GFA now? It clearly isn't acting in the interests of glider pilots. Why did they not tell CASA this was inappropriate using the arguments in my previous post? The meeting felt that the duplicate inspection was especially troublesome for pilots who want to operate their self launching gliders on their own and away from an established gliding infrastructure. That's what they said at the meeting you were at. I bet the real meeting(held beforehand or by telephone hookup) thought this was a feature not a bug. So it has been 8 years since GFA was going to adopt your solution. What was it BTW? I strongly suspect the reason it has bogged down is because GFA had no intention of ever doing anything about this. How is the licence issue going so that Australian glider pilots can fly overseas? No doubt that is bogged down also. This is either an epic fail on the part of GFA or malice. It doesn't matter which I guess as sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable for malice (Porter Clark's Law). Mike ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] iGlide Application
At 06:08 PM 29/05/2011, you wrote: Hi Stuart I have asked the same question, but I don't think anybody has tried it yet. I decided to bite the bullet and just buy a copy, but since it is not available on the Australian Apple store, I could not. I think that to purchase this you will need an account on the German or English iTunes. Since my phone is nearing its contract end I'll probably just get the new Galaxy S2 and run XCsoar on android instead. Tom I had a look at an HTC phone running Android when in Perth recently. I wasn't able to look at it in bright sunlight but the active matrix organic light emitting diode screen (AMOLED) seems a giant leap over the LCD screens. It seems that running these is somewhat complex so simply buying the phone and using it complete with screen is going to be by far the cheapest way to go. Does anyone know if the PC connection can be hacked to feed external data into say XCSoar running on the phone? Mike Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments since 1978 phone Int'l + 61 746 355784 fax Int'l + 61 746 358796 cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784 email: mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com website: www.borgeltinstruments.com ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Stalls
WTF http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2011/05/28/357321/revised-stall-procedures-centre-on-angle-of-attack-not.html Mike Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments since 1978 phone Int'l + 61 746 355784 fax Int'l + 61 746 358796 cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784 email: mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com website: www.borgeltinstruments.com ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Stalls
At 12:56 PM 30/05/2011, you wrote: I know nothing about nothing which is probably apparent from my postings, but can someone tell me, do instruments like an artificial horizon give these pilots any indication of nose angle or angle of incidence? I was attempting to explain a stall like this to #2 wife and had difficulty understanding why they did not put the nose down or look at an instrument to tell them their AOA since they would have had some minutes to think about this during what appears to have been a tail down plunge. At least if the SOPs have changed, I can persuade her to get on another plane. D ___ Angle of incidence is an engineering term to denote the angle which the wing chord line (or tailplane chord line) meets the fuselage datum. The attitude indicator shows where the nose is pointed. In Head Up Displays this known as the waterline. It can be a W shape with wings each side. The velocity vector is the direction in which the aircraft is moving. On a HUD this is usually a little diamond shape. The velocity vector can also show sideslip. The angle of attack is the angle of the wing chord line to the relative wind. I don't know what the Airbus philosophy on the main attitude display is. Maybe Adam can enlighten us. I suspect AoA may be a number somewhere on the display. I hope at least that. I think I can see one scenario for the AF447 case. At 35degrees AoA the descent angle would be very steep and the attitude may even have been shown to be slightly nose down relative to the horizon. The crew may have been trying to pull the nose up but to no avail. Mike . Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments since 1978 phone Int'l + 61 746 355784 fax Int'l + 61 746 358796 cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784 email: mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com website: www.borgeltinstruments.com ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Stalls
At 07:37 PM 30/05/2011, you wrote: Airbus PFDs are driven by the air data computers. The flight data recorder indicates that all three air data computers tripped offline -- which would have removed the PFD's data feed, which would have rendered the entirety of both pilots' PFDs inoperative. Any Airbus drivers care to tell us if this is correct? No backup attitude indication at all? Mike Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments since 1978 phone Int'l + 61 746 355784 fax Int'l + 61 746 358796 cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784 email: mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com website: www.borgeltinstruments.com ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Stalls
At 07:55 PM 30/05/2011, you wrote: Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary==_NextPart_000_0096_01CC1EFF.5B554370 Content-Language: en-au There is a backup system and separate display to the PFD's (ISIS) So hopefully when the computers went off line the back up display worked from the gyros and accelerometers? With the quality of the gyros and accelerometers they would be using the attitude display at least ought to work usefully for some minutes at least, without air data inputs. Mike cid:image001.gif@01CC1EF9.2FFEA7D0 inline: 2d1dba7.gif Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments since 1978 phone Int'l + 61 746 355784 fax Int'l + 61 746 358796 cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784 email: mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com website: www.borgeltinstruments.com ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Stalls
At 08:58 PM 30/05/2011, you wrote: On 30/05/2011, at 8:18 PM, Mike Borgelt wrote: So hopefully when the computers went off line the back up display worked from the gyros and accelerometers? With the quality of the gyros and accelerometers they would be using the attitude display at least ought to work usefully for some minutes at least, without air data inputs. The ISIS is another electronic system, not a gyro-based steam-gauge system. It takes data from the third set of pitot/static probes. If they're iced over, then the ISIS doesn't work. Go back and look at David's diagram. See the box marked ISIS? See the little legends in it that say accelerometers, gyrometers? The gyros are probably solid state laser ring or fiber optic rate gyros, not mechanical ones. They may even be MEMS gyros but given the age of the design I doubt it. MEMS gyros are in things like the Dynon instruments etc found in Experimental homebuilts. Mike Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments since 1978 phone Int'l + 61 746 355784 fax Int'l + 61 746 358796 cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784 email: mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com website: www.borgeltinstruments.com ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Mountain High Service Centre on Oz ?
Ben, It takes a few days extra each way to just send stuff to the manufacturer. Would be less if the Australian Customs mob were just abolished. Wouldn't do any harm and would save heaps of money. Actual travel time is basically 24 hours one way anywhere in the world. Mike At 11:57 AM 8/06/2011, you wrote: Hello Ben, The answer is simple, don't muck around, just package it up and send it direct to Mountain High. Their after sales service is in my experience simply excellent. I have had a two problems with MH regulators and they fixed them at no charge including upgrading some of the internals of one regulator. The O2D1 delivery units were subject of a service bulletin with return to MH and this also was done at no cost. The model D1a is the earlier delivery unit and I am not aware of problems with these. regards Roger Druce On 7/06/2011 9:52 PM, mailto:bjo...@pipecomp.com.aubjo...@pipecomp.com.au wrote: Hello everyone, My MH EDS model D1a has developed a fault, I plug it in and turn it on all goes well until i take my first puff of oxygen, then it locks full open and doesn't stop. Does anyone know of a Repair shop in Australia to get the unit repaired ??, Regards Ben West Oz ___ Aus-soaring mailing list mailto:Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.netAus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaringhttp://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments since 1978 phone Int'l + 61 746 355784 fax Int'l + 61 746 358796 cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784 email: mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com website: www.borgeltinstruments.com ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] PDA/PNA - protrait or landscape?
Ben, Some PNAs don't support portrait. (my Navig8r 35) Depends on that and personal preference really and also if one particular orientation makes the thing easier to fit in the cockpit. I strongly suggest you DO NOT block the forward and down view either side of the instrument panel. Mike 02:49 PM 8/06/2011, you wrote: Hi all, For users of PDA/PNAs in the cockpit - do you have them oriented in portrait or landscape? Why? Cheers, Ben ** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the sender immediately. ** ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments since 1978 phone Int'l + 61 746 355784 fax Int'l + 61 746 358796 cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784 email: mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com website: www.borgeltinstruments.com ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Stalls
At 01:01 PM 3/06/2011, you wrote: Hi; Another article which expands upon the subject: http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2011/02/06/352727/industry-sounds-warnings-on-airline-pilot-skills.html Interesting that a meeting was held and nobody could remember where the new stall recovery technique came from. It isn't used by FAA certification test pilots. Goes to show that every now and again it may pay to check your assumptions or operational doctrine and ask why are we doing this, this way?. Maybe the Euros should ask EASA why they are messing with gliders when they can't stop innocent people being killed in airliners with known faulty pitot tubes that made it all the way through certification and then numerous operational incidents without an emergency AD for replacement. That's before anyone questions Airbus cockpit design and operation and airline pilot training, all of which appear to need attention. Mike Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments since 1978 phone Int'l + 61 746 355784 fax Int'l + 61 746 358796 cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784 email: mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com website: www.borgeltinstruments.com ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Fwd: Instrument Pluming checks
At 09:48 AM 11/06/2011, you wrote: With head wind tail wind problems most instruments will have a digital ASI reading and this should be checked to the WInter ASI at about 80KTS. The digital ASI should be within say 2 (to 3) kts of the Winter. If not then something should be done and in the case of LNAV read page of the Manual and if really bad (more than 40 counts) then it may have to be sent in for service. Head/tail information will be all over the shop if you have a problem there as 4kts digital ASI error can make a big error in Head/tail wind information . Depends on the position error of the pitot static system in the glider. Schempp-Hirth gliders typically have fairly large position errors which cause low readings below best L/D and high readings above. Wonderful how the performance of a glider can be improved by moving the static source. The Airspeed Indicator measures Indicated airspeed. For wind purposes you need True airspeed (corrected for instrument errors, position error and air density - we don't have to worry about Mach number here). Headwind/tailwind component is done by taking the difference between the GPS groundspeed and the True Airspeed so unless the TAS is reasonably accurate the wind component will be in error. Most glide computers have a facility for correcting the IAS for position error. This should be done. This is not an error due to drift with aging in the instrument. Mike Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments since 1978 phone Int'l + 61 746 355784 fax Int'l + 61 746 358796 cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784 email: mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com website: www.borgeltinstruments.com ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] PDA/PNA - portrait or landscape?
Instrument panel considerations Put the ASI top left where it ought to be in a six pack. We aren't trying to maintain a level in gliders so the altimeter can go pretty much anywhere convenient. If you are happy to put it top right because of past experience that's fine if it doesn't replace something more important. Most glide computers nowadays don't require you to know the pressure altitude so the pressure altimeter is just for airspace compliance. Put the main vario display next to the ASI and the backup next to that or under one of them. Nowadays there's no point in a main vario that doesn't have the advantages of netto or relative in cruise and things like averagers and speed command displays and advanced audio.(B800) This puts all that glider and air performance stuff in one area. I'd put the dedicated FLARM display in the top right next to the ASI. It should be a dedicated display as the aim is to get you to LOOK for the traffic, not track it on an in cockpit display. You may then have a chance of seeing the traffic that isn't Flarm equipped or even the eagles or the wisp of cloud forming etc. You might want to put the PNA or glide computer on the left where you can reach it easier with your left hand. As you'd have all the vario related information as above, the PNA can be dedicated to navigation (including airspace), wind and glide information. I wish the writers of the software for these would tell me how a single seat glider pilot can find the time to use the ridiculous intricate features they put in and still maintain a good lookout. Whatever you do don't block the forward and down view either side on the panel with add-on PDAs/PNAs. Be aware that AAT tasks and optional multiple start points cause far more interaction with the instrument. There's no need for pneumatic varios in the 21st Century. Flasks for these are difficult to install and unless you split the TE line back as far as possible towards the probe WILL interfere with the performance of any electronic varios (or other pneumatic ones) whether flask or pressure transducer type. As there isn't much flow in the line with no flask the pressure transducer varios are less sensitive to partial blockages in lines although under certain circumstances these can still cause problems. You can connect two pressure transducer varios together right at the panel. Don't use very flexible lines(silicon) for the TE line or pitot /static if you are trying to do pitot/static TE. This tubing will very successfully transmit short term pressure changes. Similarly don't let lines flop around. The volume can change and cause short term transient pressure changes. Both will cause odd transient readings on the vario. You have a lot of electronic equipment in the glider. The capabilities are severely degraded if the electronics quits. Treat the batteries and wiring as vital systems. Use aircrat wire not cheap junk from SuperCrap auto. Use two adequately sized batteries and run them separately so when one dies the other can power everything for the rest of the planned flight. If you habitually fly long flights this can require some thought and testing. Do you know what load you are running continuously? Modern standby varios since our B11 in 1979 and later the B40 and B400 can run on a small 9 volt battery or a few AA cells for hours. They will also give you much more than a simple pneumatic vario as a last ditch option. You may find that without audio or an averager you are somewhat at a loss. A B400 or the new B700 is much more useful. I gave up on pneumatic varios in 1979 when I one day turned off my electric vario to try to fly on an early Sage. I found it impossible to use so took it out and designed the B11 and have never missed a pneumatic vario. Mike At 09:32 AM 11/06/2011, you wrote: As Mike says some PNA's don't support portrait. If it could support portrait, I would have all the numbers on top of a simple map [roads, rail rivers only], no ground display: that is outside. If I were designing an instrument panel from scratch I would have I pneumatic vario's top left or right, one simple electric [Borgelt or Tasman] on the other side. ASI in middle above an XCSoar PNA including FLARM display. Altimeter somewhere below with radio and that's it. The minimum equipment list may require compass or other stuff related to WWI that is not necessary. I would not need to spend thousands on dedicated boxes [sorry Mike, SeeU etc]. When the electrics fail one could still get home on Pneumatics. SMFSLT Alan Wilson -Original Message- From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of bcole...@xstratacoal.com.au Sent: Wednesday, 08 June, 2011 14:50 To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Subject: [Aus-soaring] PDA/PNA - protrait or landscape? Hi all, For users of PDA/PNAs in the cockpit - do you have them oriented in
Re: [Aus-soaring] Cloud flying, Wave flying, Artificial horizons, and such like instruments in gliders
Cloud flying is permitted in NZ in designated cloud flying areas even in contests IIRC from a couple of years ago. Flying on instruments is a matter of training and practice. We nowadays have wonderful PC based flight simulators (Condor?) for the practice. The old arguments about we don't know where we are no longer hold as we have GPS with moving maps. Attitude indicators aren't all that expensive and the necessary sensors can be built into soaring instruments. These can be built so they don't have the problems that old AH instruments had in gliders(indicated bank decreases with time). With a little awareness(pitot icing), proper equipment, training and procedures and some PC based recurrent practice there doesn't seem to be any reason not fly in cloud now and again in gliders. Might be fun to fly out into the sunshine and smooth air from the side of a tall cumulus. You'd want to see what happens in your glider if you trim aft and open the brakes and then take hands and feet off the controls. Some gliders are claimed to have a benign spiral mode. Mike At 11:05 AM 15/06/2011, you wrote: Hi all, I suspect that two factors were significant in the early days of the BGA which were not so relevant in Australia. First, the number of days with cumulus cloud and relatively low cloudbases, and secondly a number of ex-air force pilots with IFR skills being involved in the formation of the gliding movement. The countries that permitted (and still permit) cloud flying seem to be limited to northern Europe and so it is likely that weather conditions play a big part in swinging the decision. Cloud flying was banned in world competition after the 1972 World Comps (a collision and fatality in cloud) and as far as I know this ban is universal in competitions now, even in countries that allow cloud flying in other circumstances. I think that during the 1970's several gliders were built with VNE limiting brakes (Club Libelle, Hornet, Mosquito, Cobra, Pik20, Nimbus 2C) but earlier designs such as Libelle, Cirrus, Kestrel were not (though some had tail chutes) and after the 1980's I think very few if any were speed limited. I don't have blind flying instruments in my glider and would not use them, even if I did. It's hard enough to thermal when I can see. Cheers Tim tra dire e fare c'è mezzo il mare On 14/06/2011 11:21, mailto:gstev...@bigpond.comgstev...@bigpond.com wrote: Hi All, I would very much like to know the process/history on how 'cloud flying came to be banned for gliders (in Australia), and when. I am somewhat surprised that as an ex British Colony - read we used to do what the Brits did even long after Federation - and cloud flying in gliders is, and has been for many years, permitted in the UK why we in Australia went down a different path. How many pilots on this list have Bohli and similar compasses fitted to their glider and feel they are competent to use them as a blind flying aid? What are the experiences of members, who when flying wave, had the Fohn Gap close under them. There must be many a tale to be told here? Regards, Gary ___ Aus-soaring mailing list mailto:Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.netAus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaringhttp://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments since 1978 phone Int'l + 61 746 355784 fax Int'l + 61 746 358796 cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784 email: mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com website: www.borgeltinstruments.com ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Cloud flying, Wave flying, Artificial horizons, and such like instruments in gliders
Tim, I didn't ask. It was a competition briefing and the CD noted that the task passed through the allowed cloud flying area and you could cloud fly there. This was at Waharoa (North island). They do have complete radar coverage and the gliders all have transponders. Even in the UK they don't just all climb up in the cloud in a gaggle. The BGA has some rules for this including radio calls, a cloud flying frequency and some rules so that two gliders don't occupy the same cloud at anything like the same altitude. If cloud flying is allowed in contests and you are serious as a competitor and believe it may be an advantage, I guess you'd equip the glider and acquire the skill. How many interesting skills do we want to lose or eliminate entirely? Navigation no longer has an advantage in being able to do it without GPS and being able to position the glider for turnpoint photos is gone. Of course in legal terms, glider pilots in Australia all cloud fly when they fly closer than 1000 feet to cloudbase(used to be 500 feet in the old days until the ATC mob snuck this through). Likewise 1.5Km horizontally. Interesting that. Mike At 05:25 PM 15/06/2011, you wrote: Mike, At first glance, the concept of allowing cloud flying in competitions has problems relating to both fairness and safety, and I would be interested to know how the Kiwis handle it. The problem is that the level of competence in cloud flying among competitors will vary greatly (from none to excellent) and CD's will not easily be able to tell who is competent and current, and who is not. Then there will be days when having the skill will impart a huge advantage, tempting those with lesser or no skills to give it a go. Foreign pilots from countries like Australia would presumably be excluded from such competitions on safety grounds, and if not would certainly be at such a disadvantage that it would not be worth entering anyway. Do you have any insights into how they deal with it? The idea of a 20-glider gaggle is scary enough in clear air for most people - the idea that this gaggle could legally all disappear into the same cloud is genuinely thought-provoking :) Cheers Tim tra dire e fare c'è mezzo il mare On 15/06/2011 11:40, Mike Borgelt wrote: Cloud flying is permitted in NZ in designated cloud flying areas even in contests IIRC from a couple of years ago. Flying on instruments is a matter of training and practice. We nowadays have wonderful PC based flight simulators (Condor?) for the practice. The old arguments about we don't know where we are no longer hold as we have GPS with moving maps. Attitude indicators aren't all that expensive and the necessary sensors can be built into soaring instruments. These can be built so they don't have the problems that old AH instruments had in gliders(indicated bank decreases with time). With a little awareness(pitot icing), proper equipment, training and procedures and some PC based recurrent practice there doesn't seem to be any reason not fly in cloud now and again in gliders. Might be fun to fly out into the sunshine and smooth air from the side of a tall cumulus. You'd want to see what happens in your glider if you trim aft and open the brakes and then take hands and feet off the controls. Some gliders are claimed to have a benign spiral mode. Mike At 11:05 AM 15/06/2011, you wrote: Hi all, I suspect that two factors were significant in the early days of the BGA which were not so relevant in Australia. First, the number of days with cumulus cloud and relatively low cloudbases, and secondly a number of ex-air force pilots with IFR skills being involved in the formation of the gliding movement. The countries that permitted (and still permit) cloud flying seem to be limited to northern Europe and so it is likely that weather conditions play a big part in swinging the decision. Cloud flying was banned in world competition after the 1972 World Comps (a collision and fatality in cloud) and as far as I know this ban is universal in competitions now, even in countries that allow cloud flying in other circumstances. I think that during the 1970's several gliders were built with VNE limiting brakes (Club Libelle, Hornet, Mosquito, Cobra, Pik20, Nimbus 2C) but earlier designs such as Libelle, Cirrus, Kestrel were not (though some had tail chutes) and after the 1980's I think very few if any were speed limited. I don't have blind flying instruments in my glider and would not use them, even if I did. It's hard enough to thermal when I can see. Cheers Tim tra dire e fare c'è mezzo il mare On 14/06/2011 11:21, mailto:gstev...@bigpond.comgstev...@bigpond.com wrote: Hi All, I would very much like to know the process/history on how 'cloud flying came to be banned for gliders (in Australia), and when. I am somewhat surprised that as an ex British Colony - read we used to do what
Re: [Aus-soaring] Croatian Times
I translated the headline online. Apparently the lady's computer turned off. When I saw a komputer reference I though the pilot was saying the computer said I would make it. LOL Mike At 09:50 AM 22/06/2011, you wrote: A picture and a video from this accident http://kontakt24.tvn.pl/temat,spadl-szybowiec-uszkodzone-auto-zerwana-linia-energetyczna,114898.html Regards Jarek Christopher Mc Donnell wommamuku...@bigpond.com wrote: 21. 06. 11. - 13:00 Park And Glide croatiantimes.com Baffled driver Kasia Barabasz is trying to unravel what could be one of the world's most complicated insurance claims - after a glider set fire to her house and landed on her car. First bungling pilot Tomasz Socha, 34, flew through power lines sparking a blaze at her house in Bielsko-Biala, Poland. Then I heard the most tremendous crash outside and as I was running away from the fire I saw the plane had hit a tree and landed on my car, said Kasia, 45. I don't know where to start with the insurance paperwork. It's going to take years to settle, she added. Hundreds of homes were blacked out by the crash, say police. Spokesman Elvira Jurasz said: The pilot was taken to hospital. He's a bit battered but nothing life threatening. He was very lucky.' Regards Jarek ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments since 1978 phone Int'l + 61 746 355784 fax Int'l + 61 746 358796 cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784 email: mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com website: www.borgeltinstruments.com ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] GERMANY'S ELECTRICAL GIANT HAS TOTALLY NEW CONCEPT FOR ELECTRIC PROPULSION FOR MOTOR GLIDERS - FIRST ALREADY FLYING
Here's the press release: World's first serial hybrid electric aircraft to fly at Le Bourget Munich, Germany, 2011-Jun-20 Siemens AG, Diamond Aircraft and EADS are set to present the world's first aircraft with a serial hybrid electric drive system at the Paris Air Show Le Bourget 2011. The two-seater motor glider successfully completed its maiden flight on June 8 at the Wiener Neustadt airfield in Vienna, Austria. The aircraft was built by the three partners to test the hybrid electric drive concept. In the future, the technology, which is intended for later use also in large-scale aircraft, will cut fuel consumption and emissions by 25 percent, compared to today's most efficient aircraft drives. The world's first series hybrid electric plane DA36 E-Star Electromobility is now making inroads into the world of aircraft. The technology of the series hybrid electric drive is scalable and will be used in small and medium-sized aircraft and, in the medium term, larger planes. It will make aviation greener. Air traffic accounts for some 2.2 percent of CO2 emissions worldwide. For this reason, aircraft, too, must become more efficient. One possible solution which Siemens and its partners Diamond Aircraft and EADS are testing in the DA36 E-Star motor glider is to electrify the drive system. A serial hybrid electric drive can be scaled for a wide range of uses, making it highly suitable for aircraft as well, said Dr. Frank Anton, the initiator of electric aircraft development at Siemens. The first thing we want to do is test the technology in small aircraft. In the long term, however, the drive system will also be used in large-scale aircraft. We want to cut fuel consumption and emissions by 25 percent, compared to today's most efficient technologies. This will make air travel more sustainable. The motor glider, which is based on Diamond Aircraft's HK36 Super Dimona, is the only aircraft of its kind in the world. It is the first to use a so-called serial hybrid electric drive, which has been utilized to date only in cars, as an integrated drive train. The plane's propeller is powered by a 70kW electric motor from Siemens. Electricity is supplied by a small Wankel engine from Austro Engine with a generator that functions solely as a power source. A Siemens converter supplies the electric motor with power from the battery and the generator. Fuel consumption is very low since the combustion engine always runs with a constant low output of 30kW. A battery system from EADS provides the increased power required during takeoff and climb. The accumulator is recharged during the cruising phase. The serial hybrid electric drive concept makes possible a quiet electric takeoff and a considerable reduction in fuel consumption and emission, said Christian Dries, the owner of Diamond Aircraft. It also enables aircraft to cover the required long distances. The electric motor glider successfully completed its first flight at the Wiener Neustadt airfield in Vienna, Austria on June 8, 2011. On the long way to hybrid electric-powered commercial aircraft, the maiden flight of the DA36 E-Star is a small step and at the same time a historic milestone, said Dr. Jean Botti, Chief Technical Officer and member of the Executive Committee of EADS. The next development step will be to further optimize the entire drive train. Siemens scientists are currently working on a new electric motor that is expected to be five times lighter than conventional drives. In two years, another aircraft is expected to be equipped with an ultra-light electric drive. Siemens' Drive Technologies Division has already used integrated drive trains in other applications like marine drives. The knowhow gained in these areas has now been applied in the aviation industry as well. Combined with the corresponding product portfolio, the components of the drive train can be optimally adjusted to one another. The DA36 E-Star will be exhibited at the Paris Air Show Le Bourget in a flight demonstration every day from June 20 to June 26, 2011. [] http://news.cnet.com/8301-11128_3-20073668-54/siemens-hybrid-electric-aircraft-debuts-in-paris/?part=rsssubj=newstag=2547-1_3-0-20Cnet source http://www.siemens.com/press/en/pressrelease/?press=/en/pressrelease/2011/corporate_communication/axx20110666.htmSiemens http://www.engadget.com/2011/06/24/siemens-da36-e-star-glider-takes-serial-hybrid-to-new-heights/#disqus_thread24 [] Betcha this is being paid for by the long suffering European taxpayers. God I hate this green bullshit. Mike At 05:10 PM 25/06/2011, you wrote: 1.Siemens, Germanys electrical giant takes up the challenge of electric propulsion for motor gliders. A whole new concept! First motor glider already flying. Oooh er. If it is anything like the control system that Siemens use on CNC machines, we're in trouble! D
Re: [Aus-soaring] Gliding Australia!
At 09:02 PM 1/07/2011, you wrote: Hi; The content does look good. What I do not understand is why it has to be delivered on paper. It is so inconvenient. It would be much better if it was distributed as a PDF once every month. Yes I get Kitplanes as an online subscription. Cheap (USD27.00 p.a.) and you get it right away as it is published. You can also publish the back issues cheaply on your website so that people who may be interested in being participants in your activity can read them. That's if you're interested in increasing participation numbers of course. Closed websites that require passwords aren't impressive. Tend to remind people of primary schoolyard secret societies. Only reason to have a printed version on paper is for newsstands so unless you plan on doing that forget it. I'm not sure how much of a future a periodically published journal has anyway. On the net you can get articles all the time as they are published. The paper periodical is an artifact of the printing/distribution cycle. Even daily's like The Australian are mainly useful as fire lighters and pet litter tray liners. Unfortunately glossy colour magazines don't seem to burn well or be absorbent. In any case a journal that is an official publication of any organisation is bound to have an editorial policy and content reliability similar to that of the old Soviet era Pravda. Mike Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments since 1978 phone Int'l + 61 746 355784 fax Int'l + 61 746 358796 cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784 email: mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com website: www.borgeltinstruments.com ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] No Event Fee for Narromine Airport
Was the event fee $55 for the event or per competitor or what? Mike At 08:59 AM 6/07/2011, you wrote: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary==_NextPart_000_0035_01CC3BBA.F9C1DF50 Content-Language: en-au As a resident of Narromine I would like to set the record straight ... up to July 1 Ewen held two positions with Narromine Shire Council: airport groundsman and shire ranger. As the latter become more and more demanding it was decided that he be relieved of his airport role to concentrate more on his ranger duties. For those of you who have enjoyed flying at Narromine and commented on the wonderful airport facility, it is all thanks to Ewen and his staff. One of his roles at the airport was to ensure all rules and regulations were adhered to which made him unpopular with some of the airport users who quite blatently felt they were a law unto themselves and could do whatever they wished. As one of the councillors commented at the recent budget meeting where the $55 participant fee was discussed: Aerodrome users should work with council not against them. Ewen is our local Fire and Rescue NSW (Fire Brigade) Station Commander; and was a driving force in our Apex Club for many years, serving as president and board member over the years. His late father, Ewie Jones, was a highly respected aviation figure in this part of the state and served as Narromine Aero Club's CFI for many years before relocating to Parkes. During my 20+ years in the media industry in Narromine I have had many dealings with Ewen and feel that he should not be ridiculed as he has been in Ross McLean's email. ... Anne Elliott From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Ross McLean Sent: Tuesday, 5 July 2011 4:37 PM To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.' Subject: [Aus-soaring] No Event Fee for Narromine Airport Some very good news. The Narromine Council has voted unanimously to drop the proposed event fee for Narromine Airport. There will be no such fee imposed. Thank you to all who wrote directly to the Council opposing the imposition of this poorly thought out proposal. The Council has instead set up a stronger airport management committee who will work with the airport stakeholders towards positively promoting and encouraging all aviation events at Narromine Airport. The former airport groundsman has been reassigned to the role of dogcatcher (true). Those of us who knew Ewan will agree it is a role much better suited to his ability. Cheers, ROSS ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments since 1978 phone Int'l + 61 746 355784 fax Int'l + 61 746 358796 cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784 email: mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com website: www.borgeltinstruments.com ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] No Event Fee for Narromine Airport
Perhaps not unreasonable if preparation (extra mowing and irrigation etc) was done and extra people required during the event Although the money spent in the town should surely be welcome and simply not having one event because of the fee would surely ofset any income it would have brought. Scratch one event and you might scratch most of them which wouldn't be hard to do to a place that lies outside the boundaries of civilization. Mike . At 09:41 AM 6/07/2011, you wrote: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary==_NextPart_000_0049_01CC3BC0.EC75E250 Content-Language: en-au It was for participant/aircraft in an event at Nrm airport. www.vintaglidersaustralia.org.au From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Mike Borgelt Sent: Wednesday, 6 July 2011 9:28 AM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] No Event Fee for Narromine Airport Was the event fee $55 for the event or per competitor or what? Mike At 08:59 AM 6/07/2011, you wrote: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary==_NextPart_000_0035_01CC3BBA.F9C1DF50 Content-Language: en-au As a resident of Narromine I would like to set the record straight ... up to July 1 Ewen held two positions with Narromine Shire Council: airport groundsman and shire ranger. As the latter become more and more demanding it was decided that he be relieved of his airport role to concentrate more on his ranger duties. For those of you who have enjoyed flying at Narromine and commented on the wonderful airport facility, it is all thanks to Ewen and his staff. One of his roles at the airport was to ensure all rules and regulations were adhered to which made him unpopular with some of the airport users who quite blatently felt they were a law unto themselves and could do whatever they wished. As one of the councillors commented at the recent budget meeting where the $55 participant fee was discussed: Aerodrome users should work with council not against them. Ewen is our local Fire and Rescue NSW (Fire Brigade) Station Commander; and was a driving force in our Apex Club for many years, serving as president and board member over the years. His late father, Ewie Jones, was a highly respected aviation figure in this part of the state and served as Narromine Aero Club's CFI for many years before relocating to Parkes. During my 20+ years in the media industry in Narromine I have had many dealings with Ewen and feel that he should not be ridiculed as he has been in Ross McLean's email. ... Anne Elliott From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [ mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Ross McLean Sent: Tuesday, 5 July 2011 4:37 PM To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.' Subject: [Aus-soaring] No Event Fee for Narromine Airport Some very good news. The Narromine Council has voted unanimously to drop the proposed event fee for Narromine Airport. There will be no such fee imposed. Thank you to all who wrote directly to the Council opposing the imposition of this poorly thought out proposal. The Council has instead set up a stronger airport management committee who will work with the airport stakeholders towards positively promoting and encouraging all aviation events at Narromine Airport. The former airport groundsman has been reassigned to the role of dogcatcher (true). Those of us who knew Ewan will agree it is a role much better suited to his ability. Cheers, ROSS ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaringhttp://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments since 1978 phone Int'l + 61 746 355784 fax Int'l + 61 746 358796 cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784 email: mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com website: http://www.borgeltinstruments.com/www.borgeltinstruments.com ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments since 1978 phone Int'l + 61 746 355784 fax Int'l + 61 746 358796 cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784 email: mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com website: www.borgeltinstruments.com ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Gliding Australia!
Those who want a printed magazine surely can figure out how to get one if the magazine is delivered to your PC as a pdf. Hint: It's called a printer. You could even print it reduced size if you want or at least the article/s you are interested in and even save money by printing in black and white if the colour picture isn't of great interest to you. As for keeping records of gliders having come up for sale it's called save page as or some such when you drop down the file menu in Windows. There are heaps of free sites on the net where you can advertise your glider for sale or see what else is for sale. Tim Mara runs one at wingsandwheels.com, Andrew Maddocks another(don't know if that one is free) there is www.segelflug.de , www.soaring cafe.com etc etc. Printed classified ads are a thing of the past. Ask the newspaper proprietors who have seen their ad income decline steeply. It is 2011. Faced with a redo of the official magazine an organisation in 2011 decides to keep doing it the way it has been done since the 1950s and we have a bunch of glider pilots exhibiting the same failure of imagination and unwillingness to try anything new or different. What is being done right now in gliding clearly isn't working and worldwide the sport is circling the drain. I'm not terribly surprised but I find it sad. Mike At 09:21 AM 7/07/2011, you wrote: I agree. Another advantage is that keeping the magazine means that you have a history of gliders that have come up for sale. I have just put up an online ad (a beautiful Libelle). The ad cost is more than $30 and it will disappear in 30 days if I donât keep feeding it. Bring âem back I say. Richard Robinson PS: This is not a free promo but you could go GFAClassifiedssingle seaters and have a look. PPS: Other wise I love the new mag. I hope they will be keep up with the level of content. From: mailto:discusdri...@gmail.comBruce Campbell Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2011 10:22 PM To: mailto:aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.netDiscussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Gliding Australia! Hi, I might be a bit of a luddite, but I wish that the new magazine format retained the classifieds. I always turned to the classifieds page first to see who was selling what, and to dreamhence my confusion when I stated at the back of the mag as usual, and got to the front thinking that would be an unusual place to put them, and then realised that they had been omitted. On-line classifieds might be great for those who are actually in the market, but for those that are casually window shopping I reckon the published version in the magazine is nice to have. I have a full row of links on my browser banner already, and the window shopping GFA classifieds don't warrant inclusion. Could it be argued that the price of on-line advertising should be reduced as it does not reach as broad a market? Potential buyers need to make the effort to view it, whereas in the mag it is right there. Plus, it's an easy way to fill a page. Moving to a 2 monthly format probably won't reduce the need to chase content. And yes, I have purchased items listed in the classifieds in the past, including some impulse buys. PS - Now the only advertising content is that which is written as for information by agents. This has been an abuse of privilege for many years - not naming names, but this practice is disgraceful. Newspapers charge money for that kind of free press. Plus there are laws requiring it to be identified as an advertising feature. We masses are being taken for fools, not just for reading it - but for allowing the free subsidy to continue. Don't ban it - but recoup a fee for the service. Bring back the class (ifieds). Bruce On 3 July 2011 21:47, DMcD mailto:slutsw...@gmail.comslutsw...@gmail.com wrote: it was legally necessary for GFA to have a means of communicating with all members I think if you talk to the editorial team from this current emanation, there is no intention of filling the mag with this stuff. It is to be communicated by the internet. If we pay for Gliding Australia through our subs, and that and advertising covers the expenses of production, then what's to lose by giving the surplus copies away for free (in pdf form in the net)? Sure, it would be nice to see RAA and HGFA pilots queuing up at the newsagents to buy their copy but they are hardly likely to until they see the quality etc. D ___ Aus-soaring mailing list mailto:Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.netAus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaringhttp://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring -- ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details,
Re: [Aus-soaring] Classifieds
At 01:28 PM 7/07/2011, you wrote: Also, the moderator of the forum could censor difficult people and postings. D ___ Or even anonymous ones. Mike Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments since 1978 phone Int'l + 61 746 355784 fax Int'l + 61 746 358796 cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784 email: mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com website: www.borgeltinstruments.com ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Gliding Australia!
At 09:35 PM 7/07/2011, you wrote: On 07/07/2011, Grant Davies gr...@davies.id.au wrote: Being only new to Gliding and seeing and hearing about membership issues my two bobs worth is the if Gliding isn't in people's faces how do we expect it to flourish. I look at magazines on flying while in the newsagency and think if I saw one about Gliding I might have joined Gliding earlier. I thought that the numbers showed the GFA didn't have a recruiting problem, it had a retention problem. Cheers, Al ___ As it ever has been Al. Meanwhile in other parts of sport aviation the RAAus membership is headed for 10,000 but you can get a pilot certificate in as little as 20 hours, buy your own aircraft (and maintain it!) and operate independently. I don't think 20 hours is enough but that is what is happening and it seems to be working. 200 hours is nothing short of ridiculous. There are people making a living from teaching both gliding and RAAus who think this is ridiculous too. So instead of buying a motor glider these people buy ultralights instead. Those of you figuring on selling your expensive new or near new glider when you get too decrepit to fly it (sooner rather than later based on the age profile of glider pilots) may be severely disappointed when you do. The comments about classified ads being in or out of the magazine are irrelevant (one at least seemed to be that they should be in the magazine for the entertainment of tyre kickers). The best way to sell anything is to have more keen buyers which simply isn't going to happen. Sad really. Mike Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments since 1978 phone Int'l + 61 746 355784 fax Int'l + 61 746 358796 cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784 email: mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com website: www.borgeltinstruments.com ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Aus-Soaring Discussion Activity
At 11:49 AM 8/07/2011, you wrote: Tim, thanks for that info. From discussions with others, many of whom are enthusiastic glider pilots and owner syndicate members, ie committed members, I have heard good feedback about Gliding Australia. Many of these same people are, like me, lurkers or observers on Aus-Soaring who choose not to post here online. Why is that? Some of us do not have much to say. Some believe that certain others have too much to say. Some of us are just eternally weary of GFA-bashing, drum-beating, flame wars, derogatory attacks on individuals and rancid witterings. The climate of negativity here is palpable and most people do not want to wallow in pity parties! The climate of negativity is mostly in your own mind. If the gliding activity was growing and thriving there would be a good case for keeping doing things the same way. There have been lots of positive and different suggestions for improving the way things are done because gliding is circling the drain. Since 1984-85 the population of Australia has grown by around 30% and they aren't all boat people with no money. In the same time gliding has fallen in half. I doubt that the CEO of Coca Cola or BHP would get to keep his job if he did that to a company. Simply doing the same things but with more effort isn't going to work. Part of the problem is the rise of ultralight aviation which got on a firm footing on 1983. They haven't looked back and are currently heading for 10,000 members and 3000 aircraft. They must be doing something right. Some of this is innate in their activity in that it is just easier and can be carried out with much less fuss and bother on the ground and doesn't require the same dedication of time and personal energy. Soaring as currently structured requires a fanatical level of commitment and I think this is where the retention problem comes in. Many will realise this and simply leave. Others discover they just want to be in the air, not necessarily soar and RAAus is a much more convenient way of doing this. I realise those who are happy with the way their own soaring operation is carried out might not like to hear the above but the numbers don't lie. A little less I'm all right, stuff everybody else i.e. a slightly longer view might alienate fewer people. The GFA was formed so that Australian glider pilots would be spared from excessive and inappropriate regulation. They now have rules that are far more restrictive than those that apply to members of RAAus and even Private Pilots with the exception of the PPL medical requirement which by now could have been removed for recreational pilots except for the efforts of the RAAus and GFA. By any reasonable standard the GFA has failed and lost its reason to exist. Mike Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments since 1978 phone Int'l + 61 746 355784 fax Int'l + 61 746 358796 cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784 email: mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com website: www.borgeltinstruments.com ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Gliding Australia!
At 12:43 PM 8/07/2011, you wrote: I would suggest your major problem is the Blanik, the glider equivalent to the 1961 VW beetle. The weather you cannot control. Tom They are in Bundaberg, home of the Jabiru. There's a RAAus flying school at the airport that uses Jabs. How about a little lateral thinking and having people do some basic training there and then glider conversions? If they stay flying Jabs they weren't going to stay flying gliders anyway. The presence of people learning to fly Jabs with the flying school in order to fly gliders as their goal may even get you some more glider pilots in the slightly longer run. If people think that paying for the power lessons is too expensive they need to rethink as to whether they can afford gliding. Mike Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments since 1978 phone Int'l + 61 746 355784 fax Int'l + 61 746 358796 cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784 email: mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com website: www.borgeltinstruments.com ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] new trailer rules in QLD
At 05:41 PM 8/07/2011, you wrote: Just looking at the document. I reckon you would be safe applying the same rules as for the boats. My SA legal trailer is stored with Ian Mc Phee at Tyagarah and is now illegal to bring over the border to my new Qld home. There may be a legal loophole in that it is SA registered as with the NSW single mirror on M/cycles issue years ago. I thought all this difference of laws was supposed to be addressed by the uniform Aust Road Rules. Did our peak body GFA have any input? AFAIK there are differences between SA,Tas Qld. Any more? Perhaps the GFA legal officer could give an opinion on trailers travelling interstate. I just had a quick look at that. I don't think there's anything too bad in that. The warning stripes on the back of the trailer are a good idea amd I put a third stop light on the traliler at around eye height(don't ask). As for the rest, you're a funny man, Chris. Mike Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments since 1978 phone Int'l + 61 746 355784 fax Int'l + 61 746 358796 cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784 email: mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com website: www.borgeltinstruments.com ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] new trailer rules in QLD
At 05:51 PM 8/07/2011, you wrote: BTW it appears you cannot use the exemptions to tow a glider in a trailer if the glider has a motor as it is not defined as a glider :-( I was warned before I ... :-) Clearly then it is an aeroplane trailer and none of these rules apply. Ah the pitfalls for the bureaucracy in trying to define everything. Mike Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments since 1978 phone Int'l + 61 746 355784 fax Int'l + 61 746 358796 cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784 email: mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com website: www.borgeltinstruments.com ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Blanik
FWIW here's a suggestion for Blanik life extension. It appears to have been thought out in some detail. http://soaringcafe.com/2011/07/a-fail-safe-fatigue-life-extender-proposal-for-the-blanik-l-%E2%80%93-13/ Soaring Cafe appears to be the sort of on line magazine that isn't a periodical or a list server or blog that may become the norm. Essentially zero production and distribution cost, no tie to physical paper publication/printing/distribution cycle and lots of trees, pulp mill and transport (resources) savings. Articles can appear as soon as the editor receives them and whips them into shape. Mike Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments since 1978 phone Int'l + 61 746 355784 fax Int'l + 61 746 358796 cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784 email: mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com website: www.borgeltinstruments.com ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Self Rig
At 05:43 PM 17/07/2011, you wrote: Pretty simple idea: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcRipsiPgdk The carpet covered tube is brilliant. It is easy to make something complicated. The hardest solutions to arrive at are the simple and easy ones. That's why you want smart, lazy people. There are actually two inventions here though. The second isn't very visible. He's modified the wing root dollies to have flat tops with removable pins so that he can rotate outwards and then pull the pin and twist the wing flat. An even better mod is to extend the wing dollytracks with a removable extra section to take the wing root outside the trailer body. Bruce Tuncks invented that idea. Means you don't have to reach inside the trailer. I've been using that since 1984. Anyway, after all that, the invention is pointless in Australia as the bozos running the GFA insist on a second person to inspect and sign the DI. Funny how there is a world market for one man rigging devices to make you independent isn't it? And how the selling point used by manufacturers of motorgliders is independence. Still wondering why gliding is going down the drain? Mike Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments since 1978 phone Int'l + 61 746 355784 fax Int'l + 61 746 358796 cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784 email: mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com website: www.borgeltinstruments.com ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Self Rig
At 11:04 AM 18/07/2011, you wrote: Yes, as one who often crewed for Bruce Tuncks at that time I can affirm that his system of extending the rails to the outside of the trailer worked very well. He did it with the fuselage dolly tracks also. As I recall it was still a two-person rig, but the basic idea was dead simple, cheap and is easily transferable to other types of trailer. On most Cobra style trailers the wing dollies are made such that the spars sit slightly below the edge of the trailer sides. However the dollies don't have sides, so the wing is free to rotate on the pin. He seems to have simply raised the dollies a bit (or perhaps just put more carpet on) so that the spar is above the line of the trailer sides. This allows him to rotate the wing through 90 deg while it is still inside the trailer. Then he just lifts the spar off and rotates while carrying it to the fuselage. Very impressive. Cheers Tim tra dire e fare c'è mezzo il mare If you make the pin removable you don't even need to lift the wing root straight up. Also putting the roller on a small stand lets you put the wing on it at the C of G of the wing. Then you don't even lift the weight of the wing root. Slightly more complicated but when you see the way that bloke throws the glider bits around, he's a big strong boy and his method may not suit everyone. I've done this without the roller on the stand. Just reasonably slippery carpet. Mike Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments since 1978 phone Int'l + 61 746 355784 fax Int'l + 61 746 358796 cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784 email: mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com website: www.borgeltinstruments.com ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Motor Glider Noise
At 09:09 AM 29/07/2011, you wrote: From Stratford Upon Avon Herald. Was a winch club before. CONTROVERSIAL GLIDER APPLICATION GIVEN GREEN LIGHT PERMISSION has been granted to allow motorised gliders to operate at a club in Snitterfield, despite hundreds of objections from local residents. Objecters were outraged last night (Wednesday) when councillors on Stratford District Council's west area planning committee voted unanimously to support the application by Stratford Gliding Club. Planning officers had recommended the application be granted subject to a number of conditions, including that the motorised gliders can only be launched from the airfield on Bearley Road between 9am and 8pm. In addition no more than 20 launches can be carried out each day. For the full story see next week's Midweek. What do you think? Send your views to rsm...@stratford-herald.com Posted on Thursday 28th July. I'll bet angoodly proportion of the those residents have dogs which bark and annoy their neighbours at all hours. Mike Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments since 1978 phone Int'l + 61 746 355784 fax Int'l + 61 746 358796 cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784 email: mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com website: www.borgeltinstruments.com ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] 'A' model gliders and comfort
At 11:53 PM 6/08/2011, you wrote: Ditto to what Bruce said : Absolute performance the a Schempp is a bit better - IF you fit comfortably. Here in Uvalde Lisa Trotter [who is small] fit fine but cannot reach things in cockpit - you need to be small but with long arms! Talked to a Ventus 2bx owner last night who got the 2x version because it is a longer cockpit [I presume like 2c] and he is 6'6. It comes down to the designer, Klaus Holighaus made the a to fit himself and the b to fit everyone. Gerhard Waibel's cockpits fit the more rotund, as do Grob. LS are in between. Having spent 5 days trying different cusions etc to get comfortable all I can say is comfort counts, parachutes need to be picked with the glider in mind as well. Tom In the a model cockp[it and in Jantars you definitely need a backpack parachute not a Slimpack type. This gets you forward far enough to reach everything and with only a thin astronaut foam cushion under you you can be comfortable. My Ventus C is one of 6 or 7 built with the a fuselage. Much the same for larger people in b and c models even. The a model can be improved if you have short legs. Cut 35mm off the front of the seatpan and add that half way back after cutting it in half across the glider. For really big people who have trouble fitting in with a parachute I can introduce you to a gentleman who will make you a custom parachute where the pack forms a headrest. He lives not a kilometer from me. Former French paratrooper who has done lots of defence parachute work. For the rest I'll sell you you a nice National Flat backpack. From what I saw at Cunderdin in early 1979 I think Klaus Holighaus made the a model to fit Brigitte. I was showing them my Mini Nimbus after the contest and I did say to Klaus that the cockpit was ridiculously large. Brigitte was nodding energetically in the background giving him the I told you so look. Within 12 months a Mini with an a model fuselage was flying (the Lentus) followed soon after by the a model Ventus. For performance, the wing is the thing. Ron Sanders and I did some flying with his Discus A TOP and me with the Ventus C A TOP. Fuselages and tails identical. I was a little heavier at 400 Kg , his glider with him about 365kg. No problem for me to outclimb him and then out run. Lastly for improved comfort, don't have your wallet in your back pocket. Applies particularly to airline pilots. :-) Mike . Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments since 1978 phone Int'l + 61 746 355784 fax Int'l + 61 746 358796 cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784 email: mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com website: www.borgeltinstruments.com ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] 'A' model glider fuselages
At 04:16 PM 7/08/2011, you wrote:
1. Our understanding of the aerodynamics within the usual gliding envelope
in which gliders operate, has increased immensely. Research on the
aerodynamics of a wing section (as always, carried out by dedicated
enthusiasts), has led to a huge performance increase, in a relatively short
period of time.
A state of the art glider design of today is certainly of substantially
better aerodynamic design than one that is say 15 years old. It is highly
likely that it better than one that was designed 5 years ago.
**
I'm going to disagree with this. The big breakthrough was the
tailoring of airfoil sections instead of designing out of the
Stuttgart Profilkatalog.
The first production glider to do this was the Ventus A, Nimbus 3
(Ventus A wings as outer panels) followed by the LS4. The LS4 was a
result of an experiment by Streifeneder when it was noticed that an
LS3 with the flaps fixed went better than any existing Standard Class
glider - mainly Cirrus and Hornet at the time. In the US the ASW20
with flaps fixed to zero was winning all the Standard Class contests
also. I think they banned them in 1981. So it was a no brainer to
design a better Standard Class glider. The 15M class was more
difficult as the ASW20 was very good and here Holighaus, Althaus and
some others did a lot of work on theoretical wing section design and
verified with wind tunnel and flight test. The A model Ventus has 4
sections on the wing optimised over the span. This is all easier
nowadays as we all have supercomputers on our desktop and the MIT
XFOIL program (free!) has been verified by experiment at all
Reynolds numbers and the limitations are known. The JS1 was designed this way
The other breakthrough was the ability to build what was designed and
there have been significant developments in the molds for the wings.
The Discus was the first of these gliders(1983) and the LS6 came out
around the same time. It only took LS 10 years to realise what they
had done and fly an LS6 with the flaps fixed and realise it was
better than a Discus 1. They should have known this much earlier as
they had the DLR polar which showed the flaps on the LS6 didn't do much!
Note this was all a long time ago. The current ASG29 is a ASW27 with
new stretched outer wings. The ASW27 was designed in 1991 - 20 years
ago! Ventus 2 came out in 1995.
The ASH31Mi is a ASH26E with fuel injected engine and a 2.5 meter
section of the wing in the middle designed to match the inner ASH26
wing to the outer wings of the ASG29.
Gary Ittner and Graham Parker will tell you that Ventus C with A
fuselage and winglets is as good as an ASW27.
Progress!!!
Here I am talking about the design only - as opposed to design and
production. Some
designs may be absolutely revolutionary, but for one reason or another the
glider itself may never gets into real serial production - think
Diana 1, (5 or 6 produced), and
maybe (more so) Diana 2.
If I heard Todd Clark (the Australian Agent for the
JS1), rightly, last year at Dalby he said that the estimated
manhours to get the JS1 Revelation
into production was 75,000 hours! {Todd please confirm!} All these,
and the actual set up and production costs have to be met before a
single glider rolls off the line!
So we have a design phase, and a production phase. If the actual
elapsed time (as opposed
to manhours), from design to production can be minimized, then the company
doing this best will have an advantage over its competitors.
The JS1 is an amazing effort and clearly as good as the ASG29/V2.
They may like to think about pulling some carbon out of the wing. You
don't really need a glider capable of breaking the test rig at 15 g
(8 g is all that is required) and then being able to put those wings
on the prototype and go flying. Nor do you need 90 Kg wing panels.
2. There has been a significant advance (over a relatively short period of
time), in the development of instrumentation that allows the pilot
to know (in real time), what is happening in the airmass he is
flying in, and what to
do about it. Someone like Mike Borgelt might like to make comment
here, and gaze into the crystal ball!
Nope again. I flew our first pressure transducer vario in 1981 and
Richard Ball and the Swiss Pirol guys did it some years before. I'd
been looking at it since the National Semiconductor Pressure
Transducer Handbook came out in 1974 but the early transducers
weren't very good.
Really we're still doing it the same way. Displays and audios have
been refined and software driven instruments and stepper motor
driven pointers make things like the expanded and non linear scale on
the B700 and B800 easy to do (they work really well too) and audios
are more informative - even to two speakers to provide direction information.
The pressure transducer
Re: [Aus-soaring] Ventus 2's
At 01:43 PM 17/08/2011, you wrote: Another good weak weather glider Ron. ;] Imagine if they pulled 30KG of empty weight out of it. Mike Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments since 1978 phone Int'l + 61 746 355784 fax Int'l + 61 746 358796 cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784 email: mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com website: www.borgeltinstruments.com ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Handicaps
The handicap generally is the wetware residing in the cockpit. Mike Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments since 1978 phone Int'l + 61 746 355784 fax Int'l + 61 746 358796 cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784 email: mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com website: www.borgeltinstruments.com ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Handicaps
At 01:06 AM 19/08/2011, you wrote: In the late 70s were 15M speeds faster than open class speeds? I think Malcom Jinks and Tony Tabart would disagree! Tom Would someone please dig up the results from say the Renmark Nationals(Cirrus and Hornet in Standard class vs Nimbus etc in Open), the following year at Narromine and Benalla 79-80 and Waikerie 80 - 81(15m classes and at Narromine in 77-78 the 15m and Open flew the same tasks - 15M was in Open class too), Narromine 81 - 82(LS4 came on the scene) and see how these terrible old gliders went when flown by good pilots, please? Just use the speeds of the people from first down to 90% of the winning score. Then we can all bleat from a position of knowledge. Probably less fun, though. Mike Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments since 1978 phone Int'l + 61 746 355784 fax Int'l + 61 746 358796 cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784 email: mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com website: www.borgeltinstruments.com ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Handicaps
At 03:24 PM 19/08/2011, you wrote: Well, I can't help much but here goes. I don't have any results from Narromine 1978, and I have points results but no speeds from Waikerie 81. Average winners speeds were: YearPlaceOpen15M Std 77Renmark 112.9 (.94) 106.6 (.97) 103.5 79Cunderdin 97.1 (.99)96.6 (.91) 87.8 80Benalla 114.4 (.97) 110.8 (.93) 102.5 Overall108.1 (.97) 104.7 (.94) 97.9 Thanks, Tim. I wasn't there but they were still talking about the great weather at Renmark the next year at Narromine. Cunderdin was low and blue with broken thermals so the Open class may have been at a disadvantage in the climbs at times. The Benalla contest was a good mix of weather and these results would seem to show that the Open Class gliders of the day, mainly Nimbus 2s were a bit better than the ASW20 etc. Maybe the feeling that they aren't as good is because of the pilots nowadays? Mike Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments since 1978 phone Int'l + 61 746 355784 fax Int'l + 61 746 358796 cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784 email: mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com website: www.borgeltinstruments.com ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] September Special
At 03:12 PM 30/08/2011, you wrote: That overides the Seniors Card discount I assume?:-) Geez with the age of most glider pilots you'd go broke giving Seniors discounts. Mike Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments since 1978 phone Int'l + 61 746 355784 fax Int'l + 61 746 358796 cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784 email: mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com website: www.borgeltinstruments.com ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] GPS vs pressure Altitude
After last week's thread on GPS vs Pressure Altitude I've written a short article on the difference and why it is so. Look under Articles on our home page at www.borgeltinstruments.com You might like to read about the B700 and B800 while you are there. We've actually got complete, working, instruments available now. Mike Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments since 1978 phone Int'l + 61 746 355784 fax Int'l + 61 746 358796 cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784 email: mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com website: www.borgeltinstruments.com ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] September Special
Hi Bernard, Yes the 57mm fits a standard 57mm hole and the 80mm fits a standard 80mm hole. You need to enlarge the mounting holes from 4mm to 6mm or 1/4 in the upper right and lower left positions to provide clearance for the toggle switches. The B800 in climb mode acts and performs exactly like the B700 except that the start/end of the thermal climb is done by the cruise/climb switch and as we don't have one on the B700 we use a little logic to figure out when you are climbing without the instrument deciding you are climbing whenever the vario momentatrily goes above zero. Mike . At 08:35 AM 31/08/2011, you wrote: Hi Mike Can you confirm that the B 700 fits into a standard 57 mm panel hole? Thank you Bernard -Original Message- From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Mike Borgelt Sent: Tuesday, 30 August 2011 1:32 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] September Special We're running a Special for the month of September 2011 B700 at A$792 plus shipping for orders during September. Normally A$847 plus shipping. The B700 is a great replacement for your old mechanical vario, easier to install (no flasks) and actually useful because of the audio, averager and integrator and the comparator of those. Details on our website www.borgeltinstruments.com The manual is there also and also details of the B800 and the manual for that. If you have an Oudie, the B800 was designed with the Oudie in mind. Hopefully this spring and summer will be better than the last one and have less rain. Mike Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments since 1978 phone Int'l + 61 746 355784 fax Int'l + 61 746 358796 cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784 email: mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com website: www.borgeltinstruments.com ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments since 1978 phone Int'l + 61 746 355784 fax Int'l + 61 746 358796 cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784 email: mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com website: www.borgeltinstruments.com ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Media (sigh)
At 07:51 AM 31/08/2011, you wrote: At least someone posted a refutation. http://www.worcesternews.co.uk/news/9222550.Glider_pilot_ditches_into_field/http://www.worcesternews.co.uk/news/9222550.Glider_pilot_ditches_into_field/ http://www.worcesterstandard.co.uk/2011/08/30/story-Glider-crash-lands-close-to-estate-16147.html ___ The continued social acceptability of outlanding in sailplanes may be in question here. There are places, even remote ones, where it isn't at all welcome. There was a thread on rec.aviation.soaring where they were talking about ranchers in remote places in the western US. Those guys live out there because they don't like people much and don't much like the invasion of their space. Mike Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments since 1978 phone Int'l + 61 746 355784 fax Int'l + 61 746 358796 cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784 email: mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com website: www.borgeltinstruments.com ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Media (sigh)
At 12:03 PM 31/08/2011, you wrote: Education of the public is the key here. Okay Take a careful look around See any chance of success? Mike Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments since 1978 phone Int'l + 61 746 355784 fax Int'l + 61 746 358796 cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784 email: mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com website: www.borgeltinstruments.com ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Media (sigh)
The farmers aren't always the problem. A few more newspaper articles like that and there'll be somebody calling for the banning of gliders being flown near any population areas. Mike At 06:21 PM 31/08/2011, you wrote: One farmer at a time Mike! ;] From: Mike Borgelt mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com To: tom claffey to...@yahoo.com; Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Sent: Wednesday, 31 August 2011 2:17 PM Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Media (sigh) At 12:03 PM 31/08/2011, you wrote: Education of the public is the key here. Okay Take a careful look around See any chance of success? Mike Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments since 1978 phone Int'l + 61 746 355784 fax Int'l + 61 746 358796 cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784 email: mailto:mborg...@borgeltinstruments.commborg...@borgeltinstruments.com website: www.borgeltinstruments.com ___ Aus-soaring mailing list mailto:Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.netAus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaringhttp://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments since 1978 phone Int'l + 61 746 355784 fax Int'l + 61 746 358796 cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784 email: mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com website: www.borgeltinstruments.com ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] GPS vs pressure altitude.
Could someone send me a 3 or 4 igc flight files done during the summer in Australia to good heights (say above 7000 feet) with each of the following Flight Recorders please? CAI302A(not the early model Cambridge loggers), Colibri(late models), Volkslogger,(late models say since 2006), Flarm. Thanks. Mike Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments since 1978 phone Int'l + 61 746 355784 fax Int'l + 61 746 358796 cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784 email: mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com website: www.borgeltinstruments.com ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] GPS vs pressure altitude.
OK I've got 4 flights done in WA in summer thanks to John Orton all with colibris. Any Volkslogger or Cambridge 302A files? Or Flarms? So far good agreement with my article on the later FRs. Early ones had terrible GPS receivers and/or lots of flitering on the GPS altitude. Mike Could someone send me a 3 or 4 igc flight files done during the summer in Australia to good heights (say above 7000 feet) with each of the following Flight Recorders please? CAI302A(not the early model Cambridge loggers), Colibri(late models), Volkslogger,(late models say since 2006), Flarm. Thanks. Mike Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments since 1978 phone Int'l + 61 746 355784 fax Int'l + 61 746 358796 cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784 email: mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com website: www.borgeltinstruments.com ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments since 1978 phone Int'l + 61 746 355784 fax Int'l + 61 746 358796 cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784 email: mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com website: www.borgeltinstruments.com ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] GPS vs pressure altitude.
Thanks John Orton, Derek Ruddock, Owen Jones and Matthew Scutter for the files. I think I've got enough there now to show that the basic physics in my article on our website www.borgeltinstruments.com is correct. For those who asked what I was trying to do - it was to verify the predictions from the physics of the atmosphere. The flights done to the higher altitudes on hot days show exactly what is predicted. The warmer the atmosphere, the greater the percentage difference between GPS and Pressure Altitude with GPS PA. In absolute terms the higher you go the greater the difference in feet and the warmer than ISA , the greater the difference in feet after correcting to the same on the ground. Wave flights done in likely colder conditions close to ISA show reasonable agreement between GPS and PA. I didn't have the pressure calibrations for the loggers but they are unlikely to be all that far out in the 3000-3500 meter range (most are better than 2% in my calibration experience). Interesting observation: The older GPS receivers are definitely not as good for altitude with the exception of Garmin 25 module which is excellent as used in some 302s.That receiver only has the odd anomalous GPS altitude point which is trivial to remove in software in near real time. The ublox TIM-LP as used in later Colibris and Flarms (as far as I know all Flarms use this) is also good device. One recent type of FR uses a new GPS module which did show excellent performance most of the time but a worrying anomaly that persisted for some time near the end of one flight. This would not be possible to process and remove. It may also be a pressure sensor issue (brakes open, sideslip etc???). That leaves us to explain what Tim Shirley found where he says that he's found PAGPS alt on average. Anybody got a flight done to 10,00 or so on a hot day with an EW Microrecorder? That unit uses a Sirfstar GPS module. You can see what pressure sensor and GPS are used by opening the igc file with a text editor. It is in the header on all recent approved FRs. Mike Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments since 1978 phone Int'l + 61 746 355784 fax Int'l + 61 746 358796 cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784 email: mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com website: www.borgeltinstruments.com ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] GPS vs pressure altitude.
Mart, For airspace infringement purposes pressure altitude should be used as that is how the airspace levels are defined. That seems to be the thrust of the linked article. If you are really good and lucky it will be within about +/-100 feet. Up to +/-200 feet is possible when all error sources are accounted for. That's AFTER you apply the most recent calibration. The author is however wrong by claiming that GPS altitude error is reduced in Europe by the WGS 84 ellipsoid being above MSL. The GPS GGA message (the only place altitude is reported) is already corrected for that even though that difference is reported in the next number in the frame. This could of course be got wrong by the GPS module manufacturer or in the application processor. I've never seen GPS altitude out by anything like 500 feet due to poor signal. Maybe possible in a hang glider with structure above the receiver. Not in a sailplane with an antenna on top of the instrument panel cover. I've been using GPS altitude for final glides since shortly after SA was permanently turned off in May 2000. With 30 satellites it seems to work out. Before SA was turned off 500 feet was about the usual sort of error. I got one trace today that had NO missing fixes or anomalies. Maybe the antenna is well located but that's the standard we work on in the B2000/B2500. Can't say I've ever noticed any anomalous GPS altitude fixes. GPS receivers vary greatly. The better ones give you control over the optimisation of the software. The ones we use let you set aviation mode. Some commercial receivers don't let the end user do this and mostly these are optimised for surface navigation. These may not work all that well in a sailplane. There are g limits and rate of change of g limits. How the receiver handles dropouts is another thing you can set in the better receivers. We don't do any DR. GPS altitude is geometric altitude and that's what your glider cares about for final glides. Regards Mike At 07:25 PM 2/09/2011, you wrote: Thanks Mike for the article on your website. Here is another article on barometric vs gps altitude. http://bhgc.wikidot.com/tutorials:differences-between-pressure-and-gps-altitude The hang gliding community has been writing extensively about this subject and ended up with using barometric altitude. Firstly because that is the usual way to measure height in aviation, but secondly and more important, it was found out that GPS altitude can be out by as much as 500ft in extreme cases due to poor signal from the satellites. regards, Mart ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments since 1978 phone Int'l + 61 746 355784 fax Int'l + 61 746 358796 cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784 email: mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com website: www.borgeltinstruments.com ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Another airport conflict
At 04:24 PM 4/09/2011, you wrote: http://saratogian.com/articles/2011/09/03/news/doc4e62e8ad3f528106868463.txt?viewmode=fullstory For a country that's broke, sliding backwards with high unemployment there seems to be a lot of private/business jet use. I'm surprised at the alleged increasing number of private pilots too. All the figures I've seen show decreasing numbers. Mike Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments since 1978 phone Int'l + 61 746 355784 fax Int'l + 61 746 358796 cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784 email: mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com website: www.borgeltinstruments.com ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Another airport conflict
At 03:15 AM 5/09/2011, you wrote: Perhaps because something like 2% of the people have 90% of the money. It's called the trickle-down theory. Jim Do you think it is much different in Australia? Or for that matter in the old USSR where the nomenklatura didn't have huge bank accounts or assets in their name necessarily but just lived as though they did - including the jet use? Also somewhat harder to get ahead, for the average peasant. Traditional gliding is a problem on general use airfields. Don't even think about winches and aerotow generates two movements for evey one glider movement and gliders can't move on the ground without cars etc. There are solutions. Mike Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments since 1978 phone Int'l + 61 746 355784 fax Int'l + 61 746 358796 cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784 email: mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com website: www.borgeltinstruments.com ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Variometer performance improvements
At 11:11 AM 5/09/2011, you wrote: With the general progress away from flow based variometers (electric and otherwise) where doing away with the problems of flasks seems beneficial, surely the next step is to get rid of the flexible plastic plumbing from the TE head on the fin LE to instrument panel. It can't help to have the flexible plumbing moving during gusts and pull ups as the movement can induce unhelpful volume changes in the line, albeit that they might be small, which alters the signal. With power and data wiring to the fin, the pressure transducer unit could sit in the fin in a waterproof accessible location. Then the pressure transducer would see raw data from the TE head better but then perhaps the signal filtering may be more challenging. Or does the long plastic pneumatic line act as a signal damper in a useful way? Just a query for a slow Monday morning. Maybe someone out there has attempted this approach? Roger Druce This is certainly possible to do. Could even do it wireless nowadays with a fatter section on the fin TE probe, a small solar cell and a lithium battery.(you read it here first). Maybe a section of fiberglass wrapped around the fin LE There are several problems with the fin TE mount. You can get over the tubing problem with hard nylon pressure tube in the fuselage, tied down properly. It is in our installation guidelines I think. The real problem is that it is around a meter above the panel. As the g loads change this introduces changing pressure signals. Think about it. When you are pulling 2 g the pressure gradient in the fin is twice what it is in the atmosphere outside so going from 1 g to 2 g the bottom of the fin thinks it has gone down one meter. Take the g off and it has gone back up one meter. So a sudden increase in g will show momentary sink on the vario, removing the g will show lift. The quicker you do this and the greater the g the larger is the pressure transient on the vario. Moving the sensor to the fin will help here. NOTE: changes in g cause momentary vario transients. Steady g won't. This is a simple treatment. It is more complex than this in reality. Regardless of where the TE probe is mounted there are still other problems: The induced drag effect. Surprisingly, maybe, this is greater at low speeds than at high speeds. At best L/D induced drag = profile drag so doubling the G load will double the sink rate due to induced drag. NOTE: Here steady g causes the extra sink or lift on the vario. Horizontal gusts. In thermals we fly in in a turbulent atmosphere. We're looking for vertical air motion going upwards. There's also lots of air motion horizontally. The effect of small horizontal gradients in the atmosphere is surprisingly large on TE systems OF ANY KIND and depends on the TRUE air speed SQUARED of the glider penetrating the gust. Aerokurier ran an article in 1990 on this called. your vario tells lies. Several pages of the physics and mathematics of this. Unfortunately the author got the frame of reference wrong and came to the wrong conclusion. He thought it depended on TAS not the square of it. This can be fixed by not having TE at all. Unfortunately the vario then also becomes useless. I've got an article on our website www.borgeltinstruments.com about this. Note that the last two problems aren't fixed by mounting the sensor on the fin. In my opinion the horizontal gust problem is the last interesting instrumentation problem in sailplanes. A solution is in sight. Mike Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments since 1978 phone Int'l + 61 746 355784 fax Int'l + 61 746 358796 cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784 email: mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com website: www.borgeltinstruments.com ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Oz Flarm and Altair Pro
At 10:32 PM 28/08/2011, you wrote: Hi Chris, Your GPS hint is a tad misleading given that the unit has a native internal GPS that seems to satisfy the needs of a great many Flarm owners. While we are on the subject of Flarm can anyone definitively confirm whether the Flarm vertical separation algorithms rely on GPS or pressure altitude data. I have some very interesting empirical results that suggest Flarm GPS altitude data can be seriously out of step with other GPS derived data - although not necessarily out of step with other Flarm units. Regards, Geoff V Hi Geoff, Would you care to elaborate on this? Private reply if you don't want to go public on it. Regards Mike Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments since 1978 phone Int'l + 61 746 355784 fax Int'l + 61 746 358796 cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784 email: mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com website: www.borgeltinstruments.com ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Fokas - South Carney
Hey people, The place was called SOUTH CERNEY That's with an E not an A. Mike Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments since 1978 phone Int'l + 61 746 355784 fax Int'l + 61 746 358796 cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784 email: mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com website: www.borgeltinstruments.com ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Airspeed indicators
At 10:15 AM 6/09/2011, you wrote: Content-Language: en-US Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=_000_741FE0F31EB34268BA51200F639C2494agilecomau_ Hi Grant If you find out I'm interested. Macca suggested i send my winter with a broken bottom pivot back to Germany but I was looking first to see if I can buy a cheap one locally to replace it. Parafield Instruments couldn't fix it. Shame - its a nice one with a log scale. -Cath If you like the log scale Winter take a good look at the B700. This started as request from a young Dutch pilot. Lots more useful than a Winter. Mike Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments since 1978 phone Int'l + 61 746 355784 fax Int'l + 61 746 358796 cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784 email: mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com website: www.borgeltinstruments.com ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Airspeed indicators
At 10:50 PM 5/09/2011, you wrote: Instrument and ease of use/accuracy: When I spoke to the Sales Manager at the DG Factory about the instruments we were fitting to our DG1000S 4-5 years ago, he expressed his opinion that the the 57mm items were not as accurate or as easy to maintain as the equivalent 80mm version made by the same instrument factory. (Miniaturization in mechanical devices is not as easy/reliable as it may be in electrical circuitry) I wasn't in a position to change our order and sure enough, when our two brand new 57mm Altimeters turned up, one of them was about 10hP (300ft) out on the subscale. It was fixed up under warranty but one has to ask the question; was it more susceptible to damage/loss of calibration during transit where-as perhaps the larger version may have travelled better? Of greater concern though, when the chips are down, the bigger instrument might just be that little bit quicker to locate, read and its vital information that much easier to process safely. Not important with the altimeter but perhaps a life saver when it comes to the ASI. This is particularly so with a club ACFT due to the higher utilisation by low time pilots where the club should be providing the safest option...particularly where this is also the cheaper option. Kind regards, Daryl Mackay ___ If you are having trouble seeing and interpreting the small Winter ASI I suggest you get your eyes checked. The old PZL ASI for gliders apeeared to be a helicopter ASI. It was a truly great and well built instrument. Mike Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments since 1978 phone Int'l + 61 746 355784 fax Int'l + 61 746 358796 cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784 email: mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com website: www.borgeltinstruments.com ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] (no subject)
I think Dave's PC has been infected by a spambot. Mike At 09:13 AM 7/09/2011, you wrote: Is it only me who gets these ads? I don't need or want them. -- Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2011 09:02:17 -0700 From: icans...@y7mail.com To: peter.trott...@bigpond.com; rhender...@iinet.net.au; robc...@adam.com.au; alan...@iinet.net.au; ldonal...@hotmail.com; gav...@au1.ibm.com; hk...@harboursat.com.au; aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net; d...@carfleet.com.au; bar...@athertonairport.com.au Subject: [Aus-soaring] (no subject) http://AURAGURGAON.COM/pharmacy01.php ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments since 1978 phone Int'l + 61 746 355784 fax Int'l + 61 746 358796 cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784 email: mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com website: www.borgeltinstruments.com ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Used B40
Ron's B40 has been sold. Mike Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments since 1978 phone Int'l + 61 746 355784 fax Int'l + 61 746 358796 cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784 email: mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com website: www.borgeltinstruments.com ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Aging Glider Fleet article
At 10:44 AM 9/09/2011, you wrote: Imagine if the powers that be rigidly set out how a club should operate They already do. Every club shall be a training club. May have been somewhat sensible up until 1980 or so. Not so nowadays. The Aero clubs in Australia used to be training clubs too but many of those have disappeared and a country town aero club is now either drinking club or it has a C172 in a hangar with a combination lock. An instructor may visit for those needing biannuals or flight training. As pointed out by others CASA needs its arse kicked on this as well in regard to expectations and payment of administration fees. Gliders have become more and more sophisticated. Really? Is a motorless Discus 2 or Ventus 2 really any more complicated than a H301 Libelle from 1965? Look at the majority of AD's issued in the past few years and they generally pertain to motor/turbo gliders. Just how much longer can we expect the GFA (that's us) to continue to cover these costs on what are essentially single engine aircraft. What costs? How much does it cost to put a link to a manufacturer's or EASA/FAA website on the GFA website? CASA now merely says to Registered Operators that they are responsible for acting on AD's issued by the certifying state. If you've had much to do with self launchers you'd know that no two engine installations seem to be exactly the same (certified anyone?) and few seem to meet CS22 requirements in all respects. There's a 50 hour endurance test for example with a prescribed number of starts and power scheduling. So what about all those broken drive belts and failed ignition systems due to vibration in under 20 hours? Self launchers are Experimental devices at about the development level of early 1950s British motorcycles before the Japanese showed them how to do it. That may be unfair to 1950s British motorbikes. I suspect a majority of GFA(our) time goes into justifying our existence with CASA. What concerns me here is that unless we as the GFA(us) fall into line, a little bit, we could be in real trouble. Some say tell CASA to jump in the lake or words to that effect, and point to the fact that we as members have been doing a reasonable job over the past 60 odd years. What happens if CASA say OK, we'll take you back into our system. I shudder to think. About the only difference will be that trained pilots will have a licence and not effectively be students forever and able to operate on their own responsibility and instructors may actually have to meet some sort of real aviation industry standards. Given the rate at which they smash gliders and injure and kill students and passengers this may be an improvement. Not much else would change. CASA has a nice maintenance release form we could use instead of inventing a GFA form, the logbooks are the same, maintenance is the same. The aircraft still needs a C of A , a C of R etc. Ask our friends in the USA. The rest was pretty sensible. Business as usual clearly isn't working. Doing more of it, harder, won't work either. Kind of like the floggings will continue until morale improves. Mike Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments since 1978 phone Int'l + 61 746 355784 fax Int'l + 61 746 358796 cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784 email: mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com website: www.borgeltinstruments.com ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] GPS vs Pressure Altitude
In the interests of mis - information being quashed: I was right about GPS vs Pressure altitude(PA). Tim advised me he had GPS and Pressure Altitude transposed in his spreadsheet. So his analysis of flight records now agrees with the theoretical analysis in my article and my manual analysis of the IGC files that a few very helpful people sent me. Thanks again guys. As we fly gliders mostly in summer when it is warmer than ISA, most of the time GPS altitude is greater than PA. Not necessarily so in winter on wave flights. If you find this isn't so it may be because you have an early GPS receiver in the FR with some heavy filtering (early Colibris in particular or weird processing of GPS and PA) or your pressure sensor in the FR is off significantly. It also looks to me like the pressure altitude is the anomaly in Geoff Vincent's Flarm. I'd need a few more files to be sure. If you want to compare GPS and PA do remember to take the offsets into account before takeoff and after landing. In this case the FRs that don't automatically start on movement or climb are probably better. Pressure varies from day to day and the pressure sensor in the FR is fixed to 1013 Hpa reference pressure. If you have an early Colibri don't attempt to use the GPS altitude for final glide calculations. Some other FRs seem to show gaps in the GPS altitude record or in the case of one recent FR design the GPS receiver seems to be one optimised for 2D navigation and ground vehicle dynamics with maybe some dead reckoning of GPS altitude under some circumstances . You can't really use that GPS altitude for final glides either. The CAI 302 traces seemed to be quite good with only the odd gap(Garmin module), the EW Microrecorder seems to have an excellent GPS receiver and I would expect FLARM GPS data to be very good also as the GPS module is one where the user can set it for flight dynamics and full time 3D navigation. Always assuming you have a good antenna location with no shielding by the airframe or your body. This is one of the reasons we use our own GPS module in the B500 and now B800 where we use GPS altitude for final glides. We know how the GPS is set up. The glider cares about geometric altitude for how far it can glide, not PA. PA is a requirement for airspace compliance. In my experience given that the surface pressure will change during the day and the errors inherent in using cockpit statics as well as other problems in electronic pressure sensing, GPS altitude is superior to PA for final glides. Do remember to give yourself a margin as your glider may not really glide as well as assumed in the polar in your electronic final glide computer. In some B800 configurations you'll get a real time display of how well it glides against the assumed polar on every glide. See the article on www.borgeltinstruments.com Mike Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments since 1978 ABN: 75532924542 phone 0746 355784 fax 0746 358796 cellphones 0428 355784 0429 355784 email: mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com website: www.borgeltinstruments.com P.O.Box 4607 Toowoomba East, 4350 Queensland Australia ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] GPS vs Pressure Altitude
At 10:23 AM 14/09/2011, you wrote: I'm not sure that a mistake and misinformation are quite the same. Essentially they are. The mis-information is the result of the mistake. If the mistake was deliberate it would be dis-information. There is a push at IGC level to use GPS altitude for records above 50,000 feet. Very sensible as the change in pressure with altitude is very small up there. Around a 1/10 of the sea level value. Also for Silver and Gold height gains to be able to use GPS only. Eventually the IGC will get sensible and use it for everything. There will need to be specific testing of the characteristics of the GPS receiver though. They aren't all equal, even quite modern ones, unless set up for flight dynamics and 3D navigation full time and no Dead Reckoning. Mike Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments since 1978 phone Int'l + 61 746 355784 fax Int'l + 61 746 358796 cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784 email: mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com website: www.borgeltinstruments.com ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Club and Sports Class Nationals
Hi Steve, About two more days and they will be shipped. Ready for final checkout now. We're fine. How was your summer? I read on the net it was fairly wet and cool. Regards Mike At 04:44 PM 20/09/2011, you wrote: Hi All, The weather is starting to warm up at Benalla and it has been quite dry in the last month or so. With any luck we will have a much more normal start to the season. At this stage we have 46 entries, and still 6 weeks till earlybird entries close at the end of October. We can take up to 70, so there is still plenty of room for entries. There is a good rollup in the traditional Club and Sports classes, but we don't have enough yet in the 2 seater class. If you know anyone with an eligible two seater please encourage them - it would be nice to see a good contest in this class. Duo's, DG 1000, DG500, Janus, are all possibles. The class is handicapped and water ballast is allowed. You can find the website at http://www.deltaone.id.au/Benalla2012http://www.deltaone.id.au/Benalla2012. Entry is through the online form on the site. If you have any questions, please contact me off list. -- Cheers Tim tra dire e fare c'è mezzo il mare ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments since 1978 phone Int'l + 61 746 355784 fax Int'l + 61 746 358796 cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784 email: mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com website: www.borgeltinstruments.com ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Club and Sports Class Nationals
Disregard, Don't know what happened there. Mike Hi Steve, About two more days and they will be shipped. Ready for final checkout now. We're fine. How was your summer? I read on the net it was fairly wet and cool. Regards Mike At 04:44 PM 20/09/2011, you wrote: Hi All, The weather is starting to warm up at Benalla and it has been quite dry in the last month or so. With any luck we will have a much more normal start to the season. At this stage we have 46 entries, and still 6 weeks till earlybird entries close at the end of October. We can take up to 70, so there is still plenty of room for entries. There is a good rollup in the traditional Club and Sports classes, but we don't have enough yet in the 2 seater class. If you know anyone with an eligible two seater please encourage them - it would be nice to see a good contest in this class. Duo's, DG 1000, DG500, Janus, are all possibles. The class is handicapped and water ballast is allowed. You can find the website at http://www.deltaone.id.au/Benalla2012http://www.deltaone.id.au/Benalla2012. Entry is through the online form on the site. If you have any questions, please contact me off list. -- Cheers Tim tra dire e fare c'è mezzo il mare ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments since 1978 phone Int'l + 61 746 355784 fax Int'l + 61 746 358796 cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784 email: mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com website: www.borgeltinstruments.com ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] New Sporting Code
At 07:07 AM 28/09/2011, you wrote: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary==_NextPart_000_006D_01CC7DAD.42B564A0 Content-Language: en-au The link below takes you to the Sporting Code valid from 1/10/2011 i.e. Saturday. I have been asked whether GPS altitude can be used for badge flights. The answer is NOT YET: it will be another 12 months before this proposal can be approved, and that isd still under debate. Pam http://www.fai.org/gliding/system/files/sc3_2011.pdfhttp://www.fai.org/gliding/system/files/sc3_2011.pdf ___ That was my impression too from reading the IGC meeting discussion papers. Mike Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments since 1978 phone Int'l + 61 746 355784 fax Int'l + 61 746 358796 cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784 email: mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com website: www.borgeltinstruments.com ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] September special
We're extending the September special on B700 varios until Tuesday.(long weekend in Sydney) A$792 inc GST Add shipping if necessary. B800 varios with data output to drive any glide computer which decodes B50/B500/B800 data available now. SeeYou Mobile and XCSoar do and both will shortly be able to send data to the B800 to set bugs, ballast and MacCready. This means the system consists of a B800 main unit, an Oudie or similar and our special Oudie interface module which can also power your FLARM and Flight Recorder and take GPS data from either to add to B800 air data to feed to Oudie. Look at our website www.borgeltinstruments.com details including pictures. We've expanded the range in the +/- 2 knots range and go to 14 knots catering for all lift strengths without switching. If you use our GPS and GCD(Glareshield) Controller Display you get a self contained nav/glide/wind system as well and we've done actual HW/TW component all along and lots more now including your actual performance in each interthermal glide against the assumed clean glider at that weight so you can set the bugs setting to adjust the polar. Call or email for pricing. You'll be pleasantly surprised. Mike Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments since 1978 phone Int'l + 61 746 355784 fax Int'l + 61 746 358796 cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784 email: mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com website: www.borgeltinstruments.com ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] September special
I should add: We'll be in Sydney this long weekend contactable by email or our mobile. Back on deck Tuesday weather permitting. Leaving shortly, flying ourselves. Mike Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments since 1978 phone Int'l + 61 746 355784 fax Int'l + 61 746 358796 cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784 email: mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com website: www.borgeltinstruments.com ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] sorry Guys here is the attachments , been a bit of a hectic day.
Clearly it was. I'm sure this wasn't mean to go to aus-soaring. Mike Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments since 1978 phone Int'l + 61 746 355784 fax Int'l + 61 746 358796 cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784 email: mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com website: www.borgeltinstruments.com ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Battery Charger
Ross, The electric model aircraft people have the best chargers. www.hobbyking.com More chargers than you can poke a stick at. These are the intelligent part of the system. A Jaycar 3 or 5 amp 13.8 volt power supply will provide the power part. The nice thing is that they will handle all types of battery chemistry in optimum fashion which allows for technology changes as lithium becomes safer to use. I've dealt with the Hobby King people and they do exactly what they say. No hassles. Mike The At 07:16 AM 17/10/2011, you wrote: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary==_NextPart_000_0070_01CC8CA5.211C3150 Content-Language: en-au Can anyone advise on the best glider battery charger to buy? I am retiring the poor old thing that originally came with WB and am looking for one that will recharge quickly and also pulse the battery to keep it healthy whilst on long term trickle charge. Also ability to charge multiple batteries at once is desirable. Thanks for any advice. ROSS ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments since 1978 phone Int'l + 61 746 355784 fax Int'l + 61 746 358796 cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784 email: mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com website: www.borgeltinstruments.com ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Cessna 182P tug
Pam, Didn't DDSC used to operate a C182? Mike At 10:46 AM 24/10/2011, you wrote: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary==_NextPart_000_007C_01CC923A.3EFDF150 Content-Language: en-au Hi Cathy Thank you, I'll chase him up. Pam From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Catherine Conway Sent: Monday, 24 October 2011 10:30 AM To: p...@kurstjens.com; AUS Soaring Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Cessna 182P tug Tim Laider's 182 had a hook and he towed with it. I think it was done on an STC. Tims details can be found here http://www.riverlandflighttraining.bounce.com.au/about-the-cfi/4540511304http://www.riverlandflighttraining.bounce.com.au/about-the-cfi/4540511304 Cath Sent from my iPhone On 24/10/2011, at 8:49 AM, Pam Kurstjens mailto:p...@kurstjens.comp...@kurstjens.com wrote: We plan to use a Cessna 182P for towing. Does anyone out there have a Cessna 182P already towing and if so, could they help us with info on approvals, P-charts and flight manual supplements? If we can obtain figures already issued by CASA or an engineering firm it will save us time and money. P-charts for a Cessna 182 of lower engine performance would also be helpful, as we could say the performance will be at least as good. CASA used to issue these approvals, P-charts and supplements, but these days the work is done by private firms. I have been in touch with AutoAvia of Bankstown and their advice is to see what info we can find from similar A/C already towing. Many thanks Pam Kurstjens 04 2989 8872 ___ Aus-soaring mailing list mailto:Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.netAus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaringhttp://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments since 1978 phone Int'l + 61 746 355784 fax Int'l + 61 746 358796 cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784 email: mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com website: www.borgeltinstruments.com ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Cessna 182P tug
The 182 P (1971) appears to have the same Continental O-470 as earlier models back to 1965 and the even earlier ones had a different designation O-470 but still 230HP. Only difference appears to be a higher gross weight (2950lbs on the P which is the same weight as as the 1969 N model) and as you wouldn't be towing at gross (I hope) why is this any different fom any other Continental engined 182? I'm sure I've had tows behind 182s in Australia. Most of the Cessna versions were just the marketing department's spin on the same old, same old. Not that the 182 is in any way a bad aircraft. Surely it would be acceptable to reduce the gross weight for towing to that of the earlier models that have been used for towing? The 182 has plenty of payload so even if used for tow pilot training you could carry the people and plenty of fuel. Besides, from talking to GA pilots few seem to know or care what the empty weight of their aircraft is or the payload they can carry and still be at or below gross. I learned this when phoning people about aircraft they had for sale. Mike At 12:32 PM 24/10/2011, you wrote: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary==_NextPart_000_0102_01CC9249.11911350 Content-Language: en-au Mike Yep, different model. I'm hoping to strike lucky and get performance figures for the 182P. I haven't been able to get much info from club members about that Cessna. I'm also learning a lot about the paperwork process. Thanks to those who have so far responded, I'm getting some really useful info, keep it coming. Pam From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Mike Borgelt Sent: Monday, 24 October 2011 12:14 PM To: p...@kurstjens.com; Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Cessna 182P tug Pam, Didn't DDSC used to operate a C182? Mike At 10:46 AM 24/10/2011, you wrote: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary==_NextPart_000_007C_01CC923A.3EFDF150 Content-Language: en-au Hi Cathy Thank you, I'll chase him up. Pam From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [ mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Catherine Conway Sent: Monday, 24 October 2011 10:30 AM To: p...@kurstjens.com; AUS Soaring Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Cessna 182P tug Tim Laider's 182 had a hook and he towed with it. I think it was done on an STC. Tims details can be found here http://www.riverlandflighttraining.bounce.com.au/about-the-cfi/4540511304http://www.riverlandflighttraining.bounce.com.au/about-the-cfi/4540511304 Cath Sent from my iPhone On 24/10/2011, at 8:49 AM, Pam Kurstjens mailto:p...@kurstjens.comp...@kurstjens.com wrote: We plan to use a Cessna 182P for towing. Does anyone out there have a Cessna 182P already towing and if so, could they help us with info on approvals, P-charts and flight manual supplements? If we can obtain figures already issued by CASA or an engineering firm it will save us time and money. P-charts for a Cessna 182 of lower engine performance would also be helpful, as we could say the performance will be at least as good. CASA used to issue these approvals, P-charts and supplements, but these days the work is done by private firms. I have been in touch with AutoAvia of Bankstown and their advice is to see what info we can find from similar A/C already towing. Many thanks Pam Kurstjens 04 2989 8872 ___ Aus-soaring mailing list mailto:Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.netAus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaringhttp://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaringhttp://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments since 1978 phone Int'l + 61 746 355784 fax Int'l + 61 746 358796 cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784 email: mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com website: http://www.borgeltinstruments.com/www.borgeltinstruments.com ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments since 1978 phone Int'l + 61 746 355784 fax Int'l + 61 746 358796 cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784 email: mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com website: www.borgeltinstruments.com ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http
Re: [Aus-soaring] Airspace glider issue UK
Interesting. As in oh god, oh god, we're all gonna die Sounds like the ATC guys saw the glider from the primary return and the glider didn't have a Mode C or Mode S transponder. If he had, the ATC unit would have known his altitude and he would have shown up on the airliner's TCAS which would have made the airline pilot a whole lot happier. I wonder why the glider pilot didn't seem to see the approaching airliner? At 3000 feet the 757 wouldn't be going all that fast and it is large. Mike At 07:17 PM 27/10/2011, you wrote: http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/279943/Holiday-jet-and-glider-close-to-a-collision-over-Glasgowhttp://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/279943/Holiday-jet-and-glider-close-to-a-collision-over-Glasgow ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments since 1978 phone Int'l + 61 746 355784 fax Int'l + 61 746 358796 cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784 email: mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com website: www.borgeltinstruments.com ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Airspace glider issue UK
consumption argument against transponders doesn't work when gliders are already equipped with power hungry full colour cockpit heaters and pilot eye magnets. The alternative is lots of Class D and with Vermin and Qantas increasingly flying jets and high performance turboprops to regional airports that is a real possibility here. BTW the turboprops and jets in descent at lower altitudes aren't that much different in speed. Unfortunately Australian ATC seems to be uniquely difficult. You get the occasional great controller (thanks for that expedited clearance over Proserpine, whoever you are although I have to question the need for Class C there.) and a lot of very ordinary service which can cause increased risk by forcing VFR traffic over rough terrain. The Richmond control zone is a disgrace and after being refused a swift clearance on the way in to Camden last month I filed a plan for the return which when I checked in after launching pretty well on time appeared to have been lost, clearance denied, despite my receipt and their having had it for 3 hours. So much for SAR also . After rummaging around for a few minutes they found it. Mike Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments since 1978 phone Int'l + 61 746 355784 fax Int'l + 61 746 358796 cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784 email: mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com website: www.borgeltinstruments.com ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] multicopter
This looks like a fun project... http://www.e-volo.com/Home.html Mike Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments since 1978 phone Int'l + 61 746 355784 fax Int'l + 61 746 358796 cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784 email: mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com website: www.borgeltinstruments.com ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] NZ - bit more info
At 05:41 PM 8/11/2011, you wrote: http://www.scene.co.nz/new-caa-rules-for-air-thrills-firms/293895a1.pagehttp://www.scene.co.nz/new-caa-rules-for-air-thrills-firms/293895a1.page ___ The seminar was held to explain how to complete the reams of paperwork needed to comply with CAA rule part 115 Adventure Aviation Certification and Operations. The CAA anticipates it will issue about 50 certificates, costing about $7,600 each, within the first year. Wonderful, not how to operate safely but how to fill in the extensive paperwork and be charged for it. If the Mafia did this it would be called a protection racket. Eventually the parasite class will find that the corpse of the productive class doesn't have any more blood in it. Mike Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments since 1978 phone Int'l + 61 746 355784 fax Int'l + 61 746 358796 cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784 email: mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com website: www.borgeltinstruments.com ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] NZ - bit more info
At 06:28 PM 8/11/2011, you wrote: At 05:41 PM 8/11/2011, you wrote: http://www.scene.co.nz/new-caa-rules-for-air-thrills-firms/293895a1.pagehttp://www.scene.co.nz/new-caa-rules-for-air-thrills-firms/293895a1.page ___ The seminar was held to explain how to complete the reams of paperwork needed to comply with CAA rule part 115 Adventure Aviation Certification and Operations. The CAA anticipates it will issue about 50 certificates, costing about $7,600 each, within the first year. Wonderful, not how to operate safely but how to fill in the extensive paperwork and be charged for it. If the Mafia did this it would be called a protection racket. Eventually the parasite class will find that the corpse of the productive class doesn't have any more blood in it. Mike What's really funny though is that this is the country that invented commercial bungee jumping! Mike Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments since 1978 phone Int'l + 61 746 355784 fax Int'l + 61 746 358796 cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784 email: mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com website: www.borgeltinstruments.com ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Piggott man powered flight.
At 08:37 AM 10/11/2011, you wrote: Isn't it funny that the English remember the failures more than the successes? I can scarcely believe an article such as this includes nothing on MacCready and the Gossamer aircraft. Some years ago, I wrote a letter to Mike (Platypus) Bird about the quasi-denial of human powered flight by the heavy aircraft industry; I pointed out that almost everyone on the MacCready team had been involved with hang gliders and the design and success of the first human powered aircraft owed little to traditional aircraft industry and almost everything to low-and-slow hang glider design with minimal wing loading and a crash quick and repair quick philosophy. He pointed out that this was also the same technology as indoor model aircraft and that almost all the same people had been involved with models as kids. In comparison, the Southampton people and their contemporaries normally crashed their aircraft before they ever learned to fly them so progress was glacially slow. MacCready took a few months to achieve more than these people did in decades. D Also interesting that the whole thing appears to have been a technological dead end. Interesting demonstration but there isn't even a sport of racing human powered aircraft. Which may be why nobody is interested. The build a little, fly a little, modify, fly is however being seen in the new space industry - Armadillo, Masten, XCOR, Blue Origin(cool corporate logo- I want a T shirt) and even SpaceX. The mammals are eating the dinosaurs' (NASA) eggs. That multicopter on the other hand has possibilities. Flying Cars! They promised flying cars in the 21st Century! May be the one sensible use of hybrid propulsion in aviation. Mike Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments since 1978 phone Int'l + 61 746 355784 fax Int'l + 61 746 358796 cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784 email: mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com website: www.borgeltinstruments.com ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Calender of Gliding Events
At 07:31 PM 11/11/2011, you wrote:  an annual calendar of events published on the GFA web site --- and coordinated by? --- Wolkenkuckucksheim ! - Original Message - Yeah, it is called anarcho-tyranny Regulate the minutae of people's behaviour while missing the big picture. Mike Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments since 1978 phone Int'l + 61 746 355784 fax Int'l + 61 746 358796 cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784 email: mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com website: www.borgeltinstruments.com ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Calender of Gliding Events
At 08:10 PM 11/11/2011, you wrote: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary==_NextPart_000_0053_01CCA0B6.4D4C9BA0 Content-Language: en-au Mike we already have there here in Canberra ;) Once upon a time there was a thing called the NCCC National Competitions Co-ordinating Committee. These contests require sanction by the GFA IIRC. So in about April everyone running a contest puts in their bids for time slots and the NCCC then tries to minimise the conflicts. Some of the conflicts aren't that important eg WA State contest and any Nationals as few WA pilots go to Nationals. You could move this process 12 months earlier if necessary to aloow time for annual leave applications etc. A Dark Age is when you not only don't know how to do things but you've forgotten you ever knew. Mike Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments since 1978 phone Int'l + 61 746 355784 fax Int'l + 61 746 358796 cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784 email: mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com website: www.borgeltinstruments.com ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
