Re: [Aus-soaring] New MOSP 3 250hr max Form 2 life
Mike, As it happens CAD has responded on the gfaforum :- there is no extra requirement for a Form 2 pack - so hence no extra cost. The gfaforum has proved very successful in extracting an answer from the GFA. The answer was informative and did not come with any rebuttal/belittlement/denigration of the originator. From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Mike Borgelt Sent: Monday, 3 August 2015 8:19 AM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net mailto:aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] New MOSP 3 250hr max Form 2 life It is pretty obviously just another way of raising money. If the high use gliders are getting 100 hour/3 month inspections there is obviously no safety issue here. GFA just wants to charge for another Form 2 pack. It is just like the brilliant tug pilot tax. Forcing tug pilots to belong to GFA is just another dumb move. The claim CASA didn't want to worry about tow ratings doesn't ring true. They still need to issue them for banner towing. Simplifying the tow rating or eliminating it by just requiring a proper briefing might actually help the sport. I've had lots of launches behind pilots who weren't GFA members. At Beverley in the 1970s Dave Woodward organised not just a towplane but a standby one that could be called on complete with pilot. There have been times at contests when ag planes complete with pilots have been hired. Forcing GFA membership on the pilots will in many cases either result in the pilots saying screw that! when required to join the GFA or the club/contest organisers will have to buy a membership for each. Hence the tax. Unfortunately there is nothing that anyone can do about either as the GFA Board own the organisation and aren't subject to either adult supervision or the discipline of elections by the members. As for the GFA chat forum, why would anyone bother? Anything regarded as controversial by the Board will not see the light of day or if it does come complete with rebuttal/belittlement/denigration of the originator. Mike At 08:11 PM 30/07/2015, you wrote: In the most recent draft of MOSP 3 (19 June 2015), a new requirement has been added in by the GFA. A form 2 now lasts only for the lesser of 250 hours, or 12 months (Section 11.3.2). Particularly for clubs with high use two seaters, this is an extremely expensive burden. For example, at Southern Cross, this means we'll be almost doubling our Form 2 inspections across the fleet in any given 12 month period. Our DG1000 will be probably subject to 3 most years. Is anyone aware of the rationale behind this change? Considering most of these high use gliders are already subject to 100hrly and/or 3 month inspections, it seems like an extremely expensive exercise that is will not make us any safer. These gliders have been operating for years or decades with a single yearly main checkup. -- Justin Couch http://www.vlc.com.au/ ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net mailto:Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring Borgelt Instruments - design manufacture of quality soaring instrumentation since 1978 www.borgeltinstruments.com http://www.borgeltinstruments.com/ tel: 07 4635 5784 overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784 mob: 042835 5784 : int+61-42835 5784 P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] New MOSP 3 250hr max Form 2 life
Chris, I’m sure I missed something. If I have belittled you in any way I apologise. If somebody else has done so either here or on the gfa forum can you provide some context? Many thanks Sean From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Christopher McDonnell Sent: Monday, 3 August 2015 8:03 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] New MOSP 3 250hr max Form 2 life Well I got belittled Sean just because I am not very proficient with a PC. Once was enough thanks. From: Sean Jorgensen-Day mailto:sean.jorgensen...@bigpond.com Sent: Monday, August 03, 2015 8:22 PM To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.' mailto:aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] New MOSP 3 250hr max Form 2 life Mike, As it happens CAD has responded on the gfaforum :- there is no extra requirement for a Form 2 pack – so hence no extra cost. The gfaforum has proved very successful in extracting an answer from the GFA. The answer was informative and did not come with any “rebuttal/belittlement/denigration of the originator. “ From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Mike Borgelt Sent: Monday, 3 August 2015 8:19 AM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net mailto:aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] New MOSP 3 250hr max Form 2 life It is pretty obviously just another way of raising money. If the high use gliders are getting 100 hour/3 month inspections there is obviously no safety issue here. GFA just wants to charge for another Form 2 pack. It is just like the brilliant tug pilot tax. Forcing tug pilots to belong to GFA is just another dumb move. The claim CASA didn't want to worry about tow ratings doesn't ring true. They still need to issue them for banner towing. Simplifying the tow rating or eliminating it by just requiring a proper briefing might actually help the sport. I've had lots of launches behind pilots who weren't GFA members. At Beverley in the 1970s Dave Woodward organised not just a towplane but a standby one that could be called on complete with pilot. There have been times at contests when ag planes complete with pilots have been hired. Forcing GFA membership on the pilots will in many cases either result in the pilots saying screw that! when required to join the GFA or the club/contest organisers will have to buy a membership for each. Hence the tax. Unfortunately there is nothing that anyone can do about either as the GFA Board own the organisation and aren't subject to either adult supervision or the discipline of elections by the members. As for the GFA chat forum, why would anyone bother? Anything regarded as controversial by the Board will not see the light of day or if it does come complete with rebuttal/belittlement/denigration of the originator. Mike At 08:11 PM 30/07/2015, you wrote: In the most recent draft of MOSP 3 (19 June 2015), a new requirement has been added in by the GFA. A form 2 now lasts only for the lesser of 250 hours, or 12 months (Section 11.3.2). Particularly for clubs with high use two seaters, this is an extremely expensive burden. For example, at Southern Cross, this means we'll be almost doubling our Form 2 inspections across the fleet in any given 12 month period. Our DG1000 will be probably subject to 3 most years. Is anyone aware of the rationale behind this change? Considering most of these high use gliders are already subject to 100hrly and/or 3 month inspections, it seems like an extremely expensive exercise that is will not make us any safer. These gliders have been operating for years or decades with a single yearly main checkup. -- Justin Couch http://www.vlc.com.au/ ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net mailto:Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring Borgelt Instruments - design manufacture of quality soaring instrumentation since 1978 www.borgeltinstruments.com http://www.borgeltinstruments.com/ tel: 07 4635 5784 overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784 mob: 042835 5784 : int+61-42835 5784 P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia _ ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net mailto:Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net
Re: [Aus-soaring] New MOSP 3 250hr max Form 2 life
Well I got belittled Sean just because I am not very proficient with a PC. Once was enough thanks. From: Sean Jorgensen-Day Sent: Monday, August 03, 2015 8:22 PM To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.' Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] New MOSP 3 250hr max Form 2 life Mike, As it happens CAD has responded on the gfaforum :- there is no extra requirement for a Form 2 pack – so hence no extra cost. The gfaforum has proved very successful in extracting an answer from the GFA. The answer was informative and did not come with any “rebuttal/belittlement/denigration of the originator. “ From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Mike Borgelt Sent: Monday, 3 August 2015 8:19 AM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] New MOSP 3 250hr max Form 2 life It is pretty obviously just another way of raising money. If the high use gliders are getting 100 hour/3 month inspections there is obviously no safety issue here. GFA just wants to charge for another Form 2 pack. It is just like the brilliant tug pilot tax. Forcing tug pilots to belong to GFA is just another dumb move. The claim CASA didn't want to worry about tow ratings doesn't ring true. They still need to issue them for banner towing. Simplifying the tow rating or eliminating it by just requiring a proper briefing might actually help the sport. I've had lots of launches behind pilots who weren't GFA members. At Beverley in the 1970s Dave Woodward organised not just a towplane but a standby one that could be called on complete with pilot. There have been times at contests when ag planes complete with pilots have been hired. Forcing GFA membership on the pilots will in many cases either result in the pilots saying screw that! when required to join the GFA or the club/contest organisers will have to buy a membership for each. Hence the tax. Unfortunately there is nothing that anyone can do about either as the GFA Board own the organisation and aren't subject to either adult supervision or the discipline of elections by the members. As for the GFA chat forum, why would anyone bother? Anything regarded as controversial by the Board will not see the light of day or if it does come complete with rebuttal/belittlement/denigration of the originator. Mike At 08:11 PM 30/07/2015, you wrote: In the most recent draft of MOSP 3 (19 June 2015), a new requirement has been added in by the GFA. A form 2 now lasts only for the lesser of 250 hours, or 12 months (Section 11.3.2). Particularly for clubs with high use two seaters, this is an extremely expensive burden. For example, at Southern Cross, this means we'll be almost doubling our Form 2 inspections across the fleet in any given 12 month period. Our DG1000 will be probably subject to 3 most years. Is anyone aware of the rationale behind this change? Considering most of these high use gliders are already subject to 100hrly and/or 3 month inspections, it seems like an extremely expensive exercise that is will not make us any safer. These gliders have been operating for years or decades with a single yearly main checkup. -- Justin Couch http://www.vlc.com.au/ ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring Borgelt Instruments - design manufacture of quality soaring instrumentation since 1978 www.borgeltinstruments.com tel: 07 4635 5784 overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784 mob: 042835 5784 : int+61-42835 5784 P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] New MOSP 3 250hr max Form 2 life
It is pretty obviously just another way of raising money. If the high use gliders are getting 100 hour/3 month inspections there is obviously no safety issue here. GFA just wants to charge for another Form 2 pack. It is just like the brilliant tug pilot tax. Forcing tug pilots to belong to GFA is just another dumb move. The claim CASA didn't want to worry about tow ratings doesn't ring true. They still need to issue them for banner towing. Simplifying the tow rating or eliminating it by just requiring a proper briefing might actually help the sport. I've had lots of launches behind pilots who weren't GFA members. At Beverley in the 1970s Dave Woodward organised not just a towplane but a standby one that could be called on complete with pilot. There have been times at contests when ag planes complete with pilots have been hired. Forcing GFA membership on the pilots will in many cases either result in the pilots saying screw that! when required to join the GFA or the club/contest organisers will have to buy a membership for each. Hence the tax. Unfortunately there is nothing that anyone can do about either as the GFA Board own the organisation and aren't subject to either adult supervision or the discipline of elections by the members. As for the GFA chat forum, why would anyone bother? Anything regarded as controversial by the Board will not see the light of day or if it does come complete with rebuttal/belittlement/denigration of the originator. Mike At 08:11 PM 30/07/2015, you wrote: In the most recent draft of MOSP 3 (19 June 2015), a new requirement has been added in by the GFA. A form 2 now lasts only for the lesser of 250 hours, or 12 months (Section 11.3.2). Particularly for clubs with high use two seaters, this is an extremely expensive burden. For example, at Southern Cross, this means we'll be almost doubling our Form 2 inspections across the fleet in any given 12 month period. Our DG1000 will be probably subject to 3 most years. Is anyone aware of the rationale behind this change? Considering most of these high use gliders are already subject to 100hrly and/or 3 month inspections, it seems like an extremely expensive exercise that is will not make us any safer. These gliders have been operating for years or decades with a single yearly main checkup. -- Justin Couch http://www.vlc.com.au/ ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring Borgelt Instruments - design manufacture of quality soaring instrumentation since 1978 www.borgeltinstruments.com tel: 07 4635 5784 overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784 mob: 042835 5784: int+61-42835 5784 P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] New MOSP 3 250hr max Form 2 life
ASK13 Bergfalke just fly makers requirements are minimal. I can remember in good old days at keepit Bergfalke would do up to 415hrs in a year. Seems like oversee ice to me. Ian Mc Phee On 30 Jul 2015 8:40 pm, Peter Champness plchampn...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks Justin, I would like to see some justification for this change, or even better, see it reversed. From my experience I can see no justification for such a change. Lets put it to the test! Or see the change REVERSED. On Thu, Jul 30, 2015 at 8:11 PM, Justin Couch jus...@vlc.com.au wrote: In the most recent draft of MOSP 3 (19 June 2015), a new requirement has been added in by the GFA. A form 2 now lasts only for the lesser of 250 hours, or 12 months (Section 11.3.2). Particularly for clubs with high use two seaters, this is an extremely expensive burden. For example, at Southern Cross, this means we'll be almost doubling our Form 2 inspections across the fleet in any given 12 month period. Our DG1000 will be probably subject to 3 most years. Is anyone aware of the rationale behind this change? Considering most of these high use gliders are already subject to 100hrly and/or 3 month inspections, it seems like an extremely expensive exercise that is will not make us any safer. These gliders have been operating for years or decades with a single yearly main checkup. -- Justin Couch http://www.vlc.com.au/ ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] New MOSP 3 250hr max Form 2 life
Thanks Justin, I would like to see some justification for this change, or even better, see it reversed. From my experience I can see no justification for such a change. Lets put it to the test! Or see the change REVERSED. On Thu, Jul 30, 2015 at 8:11 PM, Justin Couch jus...@vlc.com.au wrote: In the most recent draft of MOSP 3 (19 June 2015), a new requirement has been added in by the GFA. A form 2 now lasts only for the lesser of 250 hours, or 12 months (Section 11.3.2). Particularly for clubs with high use two seaters, this is an extremely expensive burden. For example, at Southern Cross, this means we'll be almost doubling our Form 2 inspections across the fleet in any given 12 month period. Our DG1000 will be probably subject to 3 most years. Is anyone aware of the rationale behind this change? Considering most of these high use gliders are already subject to 100hrly and/or 3 month inspections, it seems like an extremely expensive exercise that is will not make us any safer. These gliders have been operating for years or decades with a single yearly main checkup. -- Justin Couch http://www.vlc.com.au/ ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] New MOSP 3 250hr max Form 2 life
The maintenance schedules that come with the A/C have always seemed quite adequate to me without this form 2 ‘thing’. From: Peter Champness Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2015 8:40 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] New MOSP 3 250hr max Form 2 life Thanks Justin, I would like to see some justification for this change, or even better, see it reversed. From my experience I can see no justification for such a change. Lets put it to the test! Or see the change REVERSED. On Thu, Jul 30, 2015 at 8:11 PM, Justin Couch jus...@vlc.com.au wrote: In the most recent draft of MOSP 3 (19 June 2015), a new requirement has been added in by the GFA. A form 2 now lasts only for the lesser of 250 hours, or 12 months (Section 11.3.2). Particularly for clubs with high use two seaters, this is an extremely expensive burden. For example, at Southern Cross, this means we'll be almost doubling our Form 2 inspections across the fleet in any given 12 month period. Our DG1000 will be probably subject to 3 most years. Is anyone aware of the rationale behind this change? Considering most of these high use gliders are already subject to 100hrly and/or 3 month inspections, it seems like an extremely expensive exercise that is will not make us any safer. These gliders have been operating for years or decades with a single yearly main checkup. -- Justin Couch http://www.vlc.com.au/ ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
