the earlier terms.
From: Jari-Pekka Raitamaa jari-pe...@raitamaa.com
To: Baha'i Studies bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Sent: Wed, December 15, 2010 12:49:13 PM
Subject: Re: How will they cope?
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Even that books might have been done originally
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It's explicit, but can't really say if it's weak or strong. I have
never believed in God and can't understand why this question is even
important. Gods existence wouldn't in any case be dependable on my
believe to Him, so anyone else is free to believe in God without
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Then again there is a wisdom in the sequence of books so actually im not
sure. p:
Keep in mind that these books were designed for Baha'is, not seekers.
We start with Book one because the first thing we want a new Baha'i to
do is to pray. But there are some seekers
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This has been my experience. I understand we are to be obedient, and we are
not to take offense, but this dogmatic approach raised bitterness,
resentment and resistance in me. I started 1, 2 3 three times each before
finally completing 1 2 in an intensive. Many
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This has been my experience. I understand we are to be obedient, and we are
not to take offense, but this dogmatic approach raised bitterness,
resentment and resistance in me.
As more time has passed the Institutions have increasingly encouraged
flexibility in this
Sent: Wed, December 15, 2010 10:09:32 AM
Subject: Re: How will they cope?
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Then again there is a wisdom in the sequence of books so actually im not
sure. p:
Keep in mind that these books were designed for Baha'is, not seekers.
We start with Book one because the first
Subject: Re: How will they cope?
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This has been my experience. I understand we are to be obedient, and we are
not
to take offense, but this dogmatic approach raised bitterness, resentment and
resistance in me. I started 1, 2 3 three times each before finally
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Even that books might have been done originally for Bahá'ís I still
see logic in the sequence of books.
I myself have recent experience on doing the books, as I used six
weeks during summer to do all books intensively in Cranmore Tower,
England. I had already studied
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I'm an atheist and I have tutored book 1 for an atheist. Praying is
not part of our world view, so discussing about its importance and
meaning was very important part of the book one.
-JP
2010/12/15 Stephen Gray skg_z...@yahoo.com:
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What
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I've been a Baha'i for a couple of decades now and was a 'praying
Christian for most of my life before I discovered the Faith, yet I
feel that I am rediscovering prayer in a new way. Book 1 really
brought home the message of engaging with the Holy Word and
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I'm an atheist and I have tutored book 1 for an atheist.
Now you've peaked my interest. It is possible for non-Baha'is to
become tutors but I'm surprised an atheist would do this. Can you
share with us how this happened?
--
*From:* Kathryn Darrah allaboutjoye1...@gmail.com
*To:* Baha'i Studies bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
*Sent:* Wed, December 15, 2010 12:15:27 PM
*Subject:* Re: How will they cope?
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This has been my experience. I understand we
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What order did you finish them in?
1, 4, 7, 2, 6, 5, 3.
4. I'm extensively familiar with book one. It is a little insulting
to assume that people don't know how to pray and need to be taught how.
I don't think it is so much aimed at teaching them how to
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One of the things I have had to learn in my Baha'i life,
is that while we are to be obedient to the *institutions* and
to the Writings, we haved zero obligation to be obedient
to any individual who insists on his or her viewpoint,
regardless of that person's
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It isn't so much atheism that defines my relationship Bahá'í Faith,
but my marxist conviction. I believe to religion as a part of social
existence of man. Only religion that I could see as an progressive
from its core has been Bahá'í Faith, and its believe in
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Even that books might have been done originally for Bahá'ís I still
see logic in the sequence of books.
I don't disagree that there is a logic to the sequence, I just think
that there is sometimes a logic in going out of sequence depending on
one's particular needs.
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I have not yet and don't plan to knock on doors. I'm gracious to the
Witnesses Mormons who come to my door but I'm not cold-calling.
Generally speaking the 'cold-calling' is used to in neighborhoods
which appear receptive in order to find interest in starting
.
From: Susan Maneck sman...@gmail.com
To: Baha'i Studies bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Sent: Wed, December 15, 2010 1:41:23 PM
Subject: Re: How will they cope?
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What order did you finish them in?
1, 4, 7, 2, 6, 5, 3.
4. I'm extensively familiar with book
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Gracious! What a wonderfully affirming response. Thank you, Susan.
I've often wondered how it is we determine which neighborhoods are
receptive. I vaguely remember something about prayers having an
effect within a two-block radius of Bahai homes. I wondered how
no boundaries)?
From: Kathryn Darrah allaboutjoye1...@gmail.com
To: Baha'i Studies bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Sent: Wed, December 15, 2010 2:57:51 PM
Subject: Re: How will they cope?
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Gracious! What a wonderfully affirming response. Thank you
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I've often wondered how it is we determine which neighborhoods are
receptive.
I think it is rather hit-and-miss. My neighborhood was great for
starting junior youth empowerment groups but bombed out for almost
everything else. We had a Baha'i in our community that
allaboutjoye1...@gmail.com
*To:* Baha'i Studies bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
*Sent:* Wed, December 15, 2010 2:57:51 PM
*Subject:* Re: How will they cope?
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Gracious! What a wonderfully affirming response. Thank you, Susan.
I've often wondered how it is we determine
: Kathryn Darrah allaboutjoye1...@gmail.com
To: Baha'i Studies bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Sent: Wed, December 15, 2010 3:33:09 PM
Subject: Re: How will they cope?
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Stephen,
I pray every day, in one way or another. So many of the prayers fill me that
it
would
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You may be referring to the following quotation from Baha'u'llah. There
is no mention of a two-block radius, but the prayer said shall scatter
abroad the fragrance of the words uttered by his mouth, and shall cause the
heart of every righteous man to throb
:* Wed, December 15, 2010 3:33:09 PM
*Subject:* Re: How will they cope?
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Stephen,
I pray every day, in one way or another. So many of the prayers fill me
that it would be impossible to say which are my favorites. I'm very
attached to the Bab's prayer in the shape
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Does the prayer book have the same prayers or different one?
From: Kathryn Darrah allaboutjoye1...@gmail.com
To: Baha'i Studies bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Sent: Wed, December 15, 2010 4:22:16 PM
Subject: Re: How will they cope
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
Oh, yes! I tend to forget that's at the front of the prayer book, just
before the table of contents. That's certainly clear about the effect of
reciting the prayers and Writings!
As for the 2-block radius of Bahai homes, Susan is probably right that what
I'm
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
As for the 2-block radius of Bahai homes, Susan is probably right that what
I'm remembering is Kitab-i-Hearsay, but memories are tickling me. I have a
sense it was based on something from the House of Justice and would have
been about 2004-2005.
I'm quite sure the
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
I think we do have a fairly accurate figure for the number of *active*
Baha'is in India. It is about 90,000.
I had no idea. If we're only counting active Baha'is, which country in the
world has the most Baha'is?
Regards,
David
is about something deeper than it admits.
--Roger Ebert
From: David Regal david.re...@yahoo.com
To: Baha'i Studies bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Sent: Tue, December 14, 2010 7:45:40 AM
Subject: Re: How will they cope?
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
I think we do have a fairly
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Ok you had 3 new active Baha'is in your cluster over a period of one year.
Has anyone left the Faith?
Dear Firouz,
Not in the last year.
Do you have statistics of growth in your cluster
over last 10 or 20 years?
I know from living here the last ten years that
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In my opinion, the key figure is going to be the 5 year retention rate both
in Baha'i membership and the community of interest. If we can keep that
high, over 50%, preferably over 75%, we are going to have sustained real
growth.
Dear Don,
High-growth religions
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If we're only counting active Baha'is, which country in the world has the
most Baha'is?
There is no generally agreed upon definition of the term active Baha'i, so
it's not possible
to give a specific answer to this question.
In this case, I think they are
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Susan,
Thanks again for the information. Sounds like new enrollees are picking up
in the SE USA and that's great!
In New Delhi, indeed I was probably there when nothing was scheduled.
However I could not help but notice how out of date the flyers on the walls
, 2010 10:08:06 AM
Subject: Re: How will they cope?
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Susan,
Thanks again for the information. Sounds like new enrollees are picking up in
the SE USA and that's great!
In New Delhi, indeed I was probably there when nothing was scheduled. However I
could not help
percs are:
Bahá'ís
From: Susan Maneck sman...@gmail.com
To: Baha'i Studies bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Sent: Tue, December 14, 2010 9:39:47 AM
Subject: Re: How will they cope?
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
If we're only counting active Baha'is, which country
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
According to Wikipedia Baha'i pops are:
Ultimately these figures come from the World Christian Encyclopedia
and they are more exaggerated by far than the ones given by Baha'is
themselves.
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Even if they are exxagerated I still think 13-14% activity rate sounds
plausible.
From: Susan Maneck sman...@gmail.com
To: Baha'i Studies bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Sent: Tue, December 14, 2010 12:18:49 PM
Subject: Re: How
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
Even if they are exxagerated I still think 13-14% activity rate sounds
plausible.
I'd say it's closer to 35% except in mass teaching areas like India,
where it is considerably less than that.
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I wasn't talking golbal percentage but American percantage.
From: Susan Maneck sman...@gmail.com
To: Baha'i Studies bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Sent: Tue, December 14, 2010 12:33:20 PM
Subject: Re: How will they cope?
The Baha'i Studies
...@gmail.com
To: Baha'i Studies bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Sent: Tue, December 14, 2010 12:33:20 PM
Subject: Re: How will they cope?
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Even if they are exxagerated I still think 13-14% activity rate sounds
plausible.
I'd say it's closer to 35% except in mass teaching
: Re: How will they cope?
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The American percentage would be about 35%.
On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 12:35 PM, Stephen Gray skg_z...@yahoo.com wrote:
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
I wasn't talking golbal percentage but American percantage
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
How do Baha'is become active? Two-thirds is a supermajority, so a
supermajority of Baha'is are inactive.
This isn't an election. You are probably counted as 'inactive' because
you don't go to Baha'i meetings. Go to any given church on Sunday. Any
day but Easter only
was wealthy
enoguh.
From: Susan Maneck sman...@gmail.com
To: Baha'i Studies bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Sent: Tue, December 14, 2010 12:47:15 PM
Subject: Re: How will they cope?
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
How do Baha'is become active? Two-thirds is a supermajority, so
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You assume to be actively religious you need to be part of a community.
Also, there are no Baha'i churches anywhere near here.
That's exactly my point. To determine who is active requires very
subjective yardsticks. That's why we normally stick with whoever we
have
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Which churches? Church attendance varies from denom to denom.
From: Susan Maneck sman...@gmail.com
To: Baha'i Studies bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Sent: Tue, December 14, 2010 3:13:28 PM
Subject: Re: How will they cope?
The Baha'i Studies
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Dear Susan,
Thanks for sharing some success stories of Ruhi. Yes, I also have seen
some good success stories of Institute process and also I have seen much
more of the failures. What I am trying to conclude is taht one method
cannot certainly satisfy all folks
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
The core activities is a way of channeling the energy to teach into
practical method of getting numbers into an environment of exposure to the
writings. I think Bahais are entitled to pursue whatever other personal ways
they believe is effective as well. In our feasts
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What I am trying to conclude is taht one method cannot
certainly satisfy all folks equally. We, as thinking Baha'is, should
recognize better how to teach the Faith to others rather than inviting
everyone to study classes. What might be good for a certain individual
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Starting on book 4 sounds like a good idea.
Now that im thinking it seems easier to invite people to learn about Bahai
history then to invite them to Study religious writings and in some ways
more logical.
On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 12:30 PM, Susan Maneck
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
Then again there is a wisdom in the sequence of books so actually im not
sure. p:
Maybe depends on the person and situation.
Perhaps what we really need to work on is HOW WE PRESENT IT, so people will
come and not think Oh yeh religion more of that Guff, great not
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
On 12 Dec 2010 at 17:29, David Regal wrote:
The Faith will increase in numbers vastly in the future. Given that
the House is struggling to keep up now how will they do so in future?
David
By delegating core functions to subordinates, and spinning-off tasks
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
It is struggling to keep up with what?
Their workload. I seem to remember you saying this when you said why more
and more Baha'is are getting responses from the World Centre directing them
to knowledgeable believers for answers to their questions. I think you
, 2010 7:29:31 PM
Subject: How will they cope?
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The Faith will increase in numbers vastly in the future. Given that the House
is struggling to keep up now how will they do so in future?
David
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Are you sure that is an accurate prediction? Inductive reasoning. Present
growth rates don't neccessarily predict future ones.
Actually our present growth rate isn't all that high. During the late
sixties and early seventies the number of Baha'is in the US tripled.
. Present
growth rates don't neccessarily predict future ones.
--
*From:* David Regal david.re...@yahoo.com
*To:* Baha'i Studies bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
*Sent:* Sun, December 12, 2010 7:29:31 PM
*Subject:* How will they cope?
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
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I believe the number of Baha'is in the world is stable at best, and maybe
getting smaller. In the USA, the number of Baha'is is shrinking for sure, as
new declarants are well below the replacement level due to deaths. Given the
aging demographics of Baha'is ( a lot
: Re: How will they cope?
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
I believe the number of Baha'is in the world is stable at best, and maybe
getting smaller. In the USA, the number of Baha'is is shrinking for sure, as
new
declarants are well below the replacement level due to deaths. Given the aging
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
I believe the number of Baha'is in the world is stable at best, and maybe
getting smaller. In the USA, the number of Baha'is is shrinking for sure, as
new declarants are well below the replacement level due to deaths.
Dear Ron,
That was true a few years ago, but
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Cc: Baha'i Studies bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Sent: Mon, December 13, 2010 1:53:12 PM
Subject: Re: How will they cope?
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I believe the number of Baha'is in the world is stable at best, and maybe
getting smaller. In the USA, the number of Baha'is is shrinking
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
Susan,
Since I moved our west, I haven't been getting my issue of American Baha'i
(need to update my address). Can you tell me how many monthly declarants it
is reporting now. I'm really curious to know. For the last 15 years or so,
it was running around 100 per month.
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
. For the last 15 years or so,
it was running around 100 per month.
Dear Ron,
That simply isn't true, Ron. It bottomed out at about 1000 a year a
few years okay but no way was that the pattern for the last 15 years.
If its over 200 per month, maybe we are
back to
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
Dear Susan,
Are all new enrolled Baha'is in USA active in the Faith? In some South
East Asian countries that I am familiar with, we regularly hear that so
many people have declared their Faith in Baha'u'llah, but in practice
many of these new declarants become
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
I would say our growth rate after the Ruhi era is less than before Ruhi era.
We really won't know for a few more years, but at the present he
indications I get are to the contrary. That is, our retention rate
is rising significantly. But to be sure, we need to
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
Susan,
Thanks for that input! It's the best news I've hear in while about numbers in
the community. if we are getting 3500 new enrollees per year in the USA, that's
about enough to stabilize our numbers.
I was paying closest attention from about 1995 to 2005 and we
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
so many people have declared their Faith in Baha'u'llah, but in practice many
of
these new declarants
become inactive in few months
I have seen this same thing. Finding someone to enroll is relatively easy if
you talk to enough people.
But getting newly enrolled
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
Viroid, I concur with your perception that our numbers have ben stagnant but I
don't personally agree that it's because of Ruhi.
Ron
Sent from my iPad
On Dec 13, 2010, at 6:09 PM, Firouz fir...@thai-bahais.org wrote:
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
Dear Susan,
Are
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
Don, this is just an anecdote but I was in India about 2 years ago and was
eager to visit the Baha'i House of Worship because I had geared such great
things about our growth in India, including from our own Dr. Maneck who I
believe did work there quite a while ago.
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
Tim,
Good observations. Another thing I've noticed is that, compared with most
religions, few of our children actually remain Baha'is after they grow up. It
is hard to grow a faith community if we can't keep our children in the Faith.
Sent from my iPad
On Dec 13,
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
It does not matter quanitity it's quality. One inspired soul can raise up a
whole generation of believers.
On the other hand the ruhi will ensure that the new Bahais will be deepened
and its much better than how it was before with Bahais simply coming in then
leaving.
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
Are all new enrolled Baha'is in USA active in the Faith? In some South East
Asian countries that I am familiar with, we regularly hear that so many
people have declared their Faith in Baha'u'llah, but in practice many of
these new declarants become inactive in few
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
The real number of Baha'is in India may actually be below 50,000,
not over 2 million. Nobody knows because nobody has had any contact w/ most
of them since they ostensibly enrolled.
Dear Don,
I think we do have a fairly accurate figure for the number of *active*
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
Thanks for that input! It's the best news I've hear in while about numbers in
the community. if we are getting 3500 new enrollees per year in the USA,
that's about enough to stabilize our numbers.
I sort of doubt if it is that many simply because the South tends
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
Don, this is just an anecdote but I was in India about 2 years ago and was
eager to visit the Baha'i House of Worship because I had geared such great
things about our growth in India, including from our own Dr. Maneck who I
believe did work there quite a while
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
The Baha'i community does not need lots of people who enroll. What is needed
are people who will make a solid commitment to Baha'u'llah's teachings, and
who
will let their lives be changed to conform more closely with the counsels
of the sacred texts, and who
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
Good observations. Another thing I've noticed is that, compared with most
religions, few of our children actually remain Baha'is after they grow up. It
is hard to grow a faith community if we can't keep our children in the Faith.
And that's one of the reasons we
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
On 14/12/2010 12:07 PM, Susan Maneck wrote:
More so than used to be the case. Our cluster has had four
declarations in the last year of whom three have been pretty active.
The Institute Process does help in this regard.
Dear Susan,
Ok you had 3 new active Baha'is
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
Friends,
Again my experience is purely anecdotal, but I too have seen many children
of Bahais become estranged from the Bahai community. Often I have heard a
lot of resentment expressed that parents were too wrapped up in teaching the
Faith and ignored their own
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
The real number of Baha'is in India may actually be below 50,000,
not over 2 million. Nobody knows because nobody has had any contact w/ most
of them since they ostensibly enrolled.
Dear Don,
I think we do have a fairly accurate
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
The Faith will increase in numbers vastly in the future. Given that the House
is struggling to keep up now how will they do so in future?
David
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The Faith will increase in numbers vastly in the future. Given that
the House is struggling to keep up now how will they do so in future?
Most of the responsibility will devolve onto local communities.
the Baha'i administration is not a
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
Given that the House is struggling to keep up now how will they do so in
future?
It is struggling to keep up with what?
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Dear Susan,
Given that the House is struggling to keep up now how will they do so in
future?
It is struggling to keep up with what?
Their workload. I seem to remember you saying this when you said why more and
more Baha'is are getting responses from the World
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