Re: [BBDB] Changelog 2010-04-10

2011-04-22 Thread Leo
On 2011-04-22 04:39 +0800, Ted Zlatanov wrote:
 Oh, I see, you want to have a general record category and then filter on
 that category.  Don't call it export-class though.  It's just class
 or category I think.  That should be trivial and we can even offer
 completion based on the categories already specified in the BBDB
 entries.  Then you just need to filter the BBDB entries using a category
 filter.

A `tag' field would seem useful.

Leo


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Re: [BBDB] Changelog 2010-04-10

2011-04-21 Thread Ted Zlatanov
On Thu, 21 Apr 2011 15:01:09 -0400 Sam Steingold s...@gnu.org wrote: 

 * Ted Zlatanov g...@yvsrybtf.pbz [2011-04-21 13:21:42 -0500]:

TZ I didn't think timestamp was updated every time you see a message from
TZ someone, just when the record is modified.  This one would explicitly
TZ say I saw a message from you on -MM-DD and leave timestamp
TZ unchanged because it's not a true data change.

Sam a third timestamp field is fine by me, but it will not solve the problem
Sam (which as I say below does not seem to have an automatic solution).

OK, then it's not needed.  I'd rather not add features no one needs :)

Sam I think the right approach is to add a field called export-class with
Sam values being a set of symbols and each export operation (e.g., print,
Sam diary c) should operate on the records of the specific class (`print',
Sam `diary' c) which should be the value of an option, e.g.,
Sam `bbdb-print-class', `bbdb-diary-class', so that I can bind them around a
Sam call to an export function.

Oh, I see, you want to have a general record category and then filter on
that category.  Don't call it export-class though.  It's just class
or category I think.  That should be trivial and we can even offer
completion based on the categories already specified in the BBDB
entries.  Then you just need to filter the BBDB entries using a category
filter.

Ted


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Re: [BBDB] Changelog 2010-04-10

2011-04-17 Thread Nix
On 17 Apr 2011, Roland Winkler spake thusly:

 On Sun Apr 17 2011 Nix wrote:
 We could do the same job with a new hook which is called only once per
 record, no matter how many times it is spotted by a given call to
 bbdb-update-records, or with a new guarantee that the bbdb-notice-hook
 would only fire once per record per call to bbdb-update-records. But
 in the absence of that, an advisement is the only neat approach.

 First I wanted to say that bbdb-notice-hook is really in the wrong
 place and that it might be better to move it elsewhere in the code.
 
 Yet the functions in this hook can refer to the particular email
 address in a message which actually triggered the noticing of a
 record (and maybe we have a message with two email addresses for the
 same person, so that the same record is matched twice by one message).
 So it seems to me it is useful to keep this hook where and what it is.

Yep. These are two different jobs, so they should probably be covered by
two different hooks.

 Yet it appears also useful beyond your particular problem to have a
 hook which is called for each message only once per record. This

(Actually I went further and had it work for each message *for each
function*, so if you put it on the hook a dozen times it still only got
called once. But this is a useless and arguably confusing side-effect of
the behaviour I really wanted. If you only want your function called
once, don't put it on the hook twice!)

 could be done in bbdb-update-records, or probably yet better in
 bbdb-mua-update-records.

 Do you have a good name for such a hook?

I'd be inclined to say that the existing hook should have been called
bbdb-notice-address-hook, so the new one could get called
bbdb-notice-record-hook, but of course we can't rename that hook without
breaking everyone's setups.

 If you have not yet signed any paperwork, it is probably the easiest
 if you simply say it is for Emacs and BBDB/Emacs.

Sent.

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Re: [BBDB] Changelog 2010-04-10

2011-04-17 Thread Roland Winkler
On Sun Apr 17 2011 Nix wrote:
 (Actually I went further and had it work for each message *for each
 function*, so if you put it on the hook a dozen times it still only got
 called once. But this is a useless and arguably confusing side-effect of
 the behaviour I really wanted. If you only want your function called
 once, don't put it on the hook twice!)

Agreed. It's my understanding that a major point in having the
function add-hook is that you can call it without worrying whether
the function you want to add to a hook is already present.

  Do you have a good name for such a hook?
 
 I'd be inclined to say that the existing hook should have been
 called bbdb-notice-address-hook, so the new one could get called
 bbdb-notice-record-hook, but of course we can't rename that hook
 without breaking everyone's setups.

I am inclined to making this change anyway, a reason being that the
difference between these hooks was previously not spelled out, so
that with the new BBDB people have to redecide what they really
want. Also, I cleaned up the code that allows
bbdb-notice-(address)-hook to identify the address in the message so
that any such hook functions need to be updated, too.

In general, my philosphy is here that so many things have changed
that anyway everyone should check more carefully what he or she
wants. A user who was really just happy with the old BBDB and
doesn't care about the new stuff, is probably better off if he or
she continues using the old BBDB.

  If you have not yet signed any paperwork, it is probably the easiest
  if you simply say it is for Emacs and BBDB/Emacs.
 
 Sent.

Thank you!

Roland

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Re: [BBDB] Changelog 2010-04-10

2011-04-17 Thread Nix
On 17 Apr 2011, Roland Winkler verbalised:

 On Sun Apr 17 2011 Nix wrote:
 (Actually I went further and had it work for each message *for each
 function*, so if you put it on the hook a dozen times it still only got
 called once. But this is a useless and arguably confusing side-effect of
 the behaviour I really wanted. If you only want your function called
 once, don't put it on the hook twice!)

 Agreed. It's my understanding that a major point in having the
 function add-hook is that you can call it without worrying whether
 the function you want to add to a hook is already present.

True enuff.

 I'd be inclined to say that the existing hook should have been
 called bbdb-notice-address-hook, so the new one could get called
 bbdb-notice-record-hook, but of course we can't rename that hook
 without breaking everyone's setups.

 I am inclined to making this change anyway, a reason being that the
 difference between these hooks was previously not spelled out, so
 that with the new BBDB people have to redecide what they really
 want.

Is it *that* different? We could keep an alias... but I'm inclined
to say it doesn't matter as well. Break compatibility and damn the
torpedoes! :)

 Also, I cleaned up the code that allows
 bbdb-notice-(address)-hook to identify the address in the message so
 that any such hook functions need to be updated, too.

That might be useful.

 Thank you!

Note that I didn't say I'd actually done any work on it yet. ;}

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Re: [BBDB] Changelog 2010-04-10

2011-04-16 Thread Roland Winkler
On Mon Apr 11 2011 Nix wrote:
 On 11 Apr 2011, Roland Winkler told this:
  - Finally, I fixed various bugs and improved the documentation.
 
 I just noticed that BBDB development has restarted. Unfortunately
 BBDB 3.0 has removed a good few features, including one I definitely
 rely on: bbdb-canonicalize-net-hook, which is crucial to keep your
 database clean in the face of the large number of people with
 semiautomatically morphing addresses.

I renamed this to bbdb-canonicalize-mail-function which is more in
line with the naming conventions both of emacs in general and the
new BBDB in particular.

 Is this done in some new way these days? Would you mind if I
 reimplemented it? (The v2.x BBDB's canonicalize-net-hook has just broken
 due to changes in the behaviour of run-hook-with-args in upstream Emacs
 bzr, to wit, that it always now returns nil if called with a hook list
 rather than a hook variable. This behaviour appears to be intentional:
 when you think about it it doesn't make much sense to return the value
 of any one hook function if there is more than one. A fix would be
 trivial, but if BBDB 2.x is dead, it may not be worth doing.)

I have not tested bbdb-canonicalize-mail-function myself. So I do
not know whether it is actually working. As usual bug reports are
welcome. And bug fixes are yet more appreciated!

 (I'll also see if bbdb-expire works with v3.0x and make it work if
 it doesn't.)

I believe this was some kind of add-on for BBDB. So it is probably
broken right now. Again, if you can get it going again you might
make more people happy.

To merge such things into the new repo, it would be best if we can
get not only your copyright assignment but also from the original
author(s) / contributors of bbdb-expire. (See my other email on
copyright.)

Roland

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Re: [BBDB] Changelog 2010-04-10

2011-04-16 Thread Nix
On 17 Apr 2011, Roland Winkler told this:

 On Mon Apr 11 2011 Nix wrote:
 (I'll also see if bbdb-expire works with v3.0x and make it work if
 it doesn't.)

 I believe this was some kind of add-on for BBDB.

It was, making heavy use of advisements to do its job. If it isn't
broken I'd be astonished. :)

   So it is probably
 broken right now. Again, if you can get it going again you might
 make more people happy.

I wrote it, I rely on it, so I'm fairly sure I can get it going again :)
probably tomorrow...

 To merge such things into the new repo, it would be best if we can
 get not only your copyright assignment but also from the original
 author(s) / contributors of bbdb-expire. (See my other email on
 copyright.)

That would be me, me, and me. (I had suggestsions from other people, but
no code.)

I don't have an assignment for Emacs yet as far as I can recall (I might
have one from many years ago: I wasn't keeping good records before about
2002, but I don't think so). I'm happy to sign one. (My employer
(Oracle) signed a disclaimer for all its employees long since, so that
part is done.)

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Re: [BBDB] Changelog 2010-04-10

2011-04-16 Thread Roland Winkler
On Sun Apr 17 2011 Nix wrote:
  (I'll also see if bbdb-expire works with v3.0x and make it work if
  it doesn't.)
 
  I believe this was some kind of add-on for BBDB.
 
 It was, making heavy use of advisements to do its job. If it isn't
 broken I'd be astonished. :)

If possible, I'd like to avoid using advice in any released code. If
you find anything missing in the new BBDB that allowed bbdb-expire
to work without advice, it's probably much cleaner to go that route!

 I wrote it, I rely on it, so I'm fairly sure I can get it going again :)
 probably tomorrow...

OK!

  To merge such things into the new repo, it would be best if we can
  get not only your copyright assignment but also from the original
  author(s) / contributors of bbdb-expire. (See my other email on
  copyright.)
 
 That would be me, me, and me. (I had suggestsions from other people, but
 no code.)
 
 I don't have an assignment for Emacs yet as far as I can recall (I might
 have one from many years ago: I wasn't keeping good records before about
 2002, but I don't think so). I'm happy to sign one. (My employer
 (Oracle) signed a disclaimer for all its employees long since, so that
 part is done.)

Sounds good!

Please see the questionaire below. (The package name is BBDB/EMACS.)

Thaks a lot,

Roland


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Re: [BBDB] Changelog 2010-04-10

2011-04-16 Thread Nix
On 17 Apr 2011, Roland Winkler stated:

 On Sun Apr 17 2011 Nix wrote:
  (I'll also see if bbdb-expire works with v3.0x and make it work if
  it doesn't.)
 
  I believe this was some kind of add-on for BBDB.
 
 It was, making heavy use of advisements to do its job. If it isn't
 broken I'd be astonished. :)

This was a lie caused by my forgetting all about earlier improvements
done around the days of BBDB 2.34. It *used* to make heavy use of
advisements and engaged in actual redefinition of BBDB functions.
Nowadays we get away with a single advisement: everything else is done
via hooking. We rely on the bbdb-notice-hook's precise semantics:
actually those semantics are not quite right for us so we modify them
via the one piece of advice.

 If possible, I'd like to avoid using advice in any released code. If
 you find anything missing in the new BBDB that allowed bbdb-expire
 to work without advice, it's probably much cleaner to go that route!

Oh, agreed. I just didn't want to require changes to BBDB for something
as piddly as this.

We're binding a variable to nil around the call to bbdb-update-records
is called, then jamming things into that variable from various functions
we add to the update-records hook so as to ensure that each such
function is called only once per BBDB record, even if
bbdb-update-records spots the same record a dozen times. (We use this to
expire records that have been hit only once earlier than other records,
on the grounds that they are probably spammers or flyby
question-askers who don't need to be remembered for long.)

We could do the same job with a new hook which is called only once per
record, no matter how many times it is spotted by a given call to
bbdb-update-records, or with a new guarantee that the bbdb-notice-hook
would only fire once per record per call to bbdb-update-records. But
in the absence of that, an advisement is the only neat approach.

 Please see the questionaire below. (The package name is BBDB/EMACS.)

I might as well sign one for all of Emacs: I have a bunch of patches to
that queued up for when the git repo ever unjams (if it ever does, sigh,
maybe I'll be forced to use bloody bzr: but last time I tried to branch
the emacs repo using that awful VCS I gave up after five hours).


If I do an Emacs-wide one, will it apply to BBDB as well? (Sorry for the
stupid question, but the packages are so tightly related...)

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Re: [BBDB] Changelog 2010-04-10

2011-04-16 Thread Roland Winkler
On Sun Apr 17 2011 Nix wrote:
 We could do the same job with a new hook which is called only once per
 record, no matter how many times it is spotted by a given call to
 bbdb-update-records, or with a new guarantee that the bbdb-notice-hook
 would only fire once per record per call to bbdb-update-records. But
 in the absence of that, an advisement is the only neat approach.

First I wanted to say that bbdb-notice-hook is really in the wrong
place and that it might be better to move it elsewhere in the code.

Yet the functions in this hook can refer to the particular email
address in a message which actually triggered the noticing of a
record (and maybe we have a message with two email addresses for the
same person, so that the same record is matched twice by one message).
So it seems to me it is useful to keep this hook where and what it is.

Yet it appears also useful beyond your particular problem to have a
hook which is called for each message only once per record. This
could be done in bbdb-update-records, or probably yet better in
bbdb-mua-update-records.

Do you have a good name for such a hook?

 I might as well sign one for all of Emacs: I have a bunch of patches to
 that queued up for when the git repo ever unjams (if it ever does, sigh,
 maybe I'll be forced to use bloody bzr: but last time I tried to branch
 the emacs repo using that awful VCS I gave up after five hours).
 
 If I do an Emacs-wide one, will it apply to BBDB as well? (Sorry for the
 stupid question, but the packages are so tightly related...)

If someone has previously signed copyright assignments for GNU
Emacs, these people need not sign new paperwork. Yet BBDB is not
(yet?) part of GNU Emacs. So these people are asked to just email
fsf-reco...@gnu.org, and tell them that their work on BBDB should be
considered part of their Emacs assignment.

If you have not yet signed any paperwork, it is probably the easiest
if you simply say it is for Emacs and BBDB/Emacs.

Roland

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Re: [BBDB] Changelog 2010-04-10

2011-04-15 Thread Ted Zlatanov
On Mon, 11 Apr 2011 09:00:43 +0200 Didier Verna did...@xemacs.org wrote: 

dvl Roland Winkler wink...@gnu.org wrote:
 First of all, the most noteworthy change is that BBDB has been
 transfered from CVS to git. So for anonymous checkout, you should now
 use

dvl   For those of us who had write access to the old repo, is that still
dvl the case ?

I can't speak for Roland, but I would be in favor of adding the old
committers to the Savannah repo.

You can just clone it, in any case, and send patches to be applied if
you need something sooner than Roland's decision.

Ted


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Re: [BBDB] Changelog 2010-04-10

2011-04-14 Thread Didier Verna
Roland Winkler wink...@gnu.org wrote:

 First of all, the most noteworthy change is that BBDB has been
 transfered from CVS to git. So for anonymous checkout, you should now
 use

  For those of us who had write access to the old repo, is that still
the case ?


 What are the changes in the latest code?

  Is the net field still a list of email addresses?


Thanks for the rejuvenation cure on BBDB!

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Re: [BBDB] Changelog 2010-04-10

2011-04-13 Thread Roland Winkler
On Mon Apr 11 2011 Sam Steingold wrote:
 you might consider putting the todo list into the git repo

It'll come soon.

 On a similar note, I tried the new bbdb (from git) today and it does not
 look ready for prime time yet. Specifically, in gnus, when the address
 is marked with * (i.e., bbdb knows about it), *bbdb* buffer is not
 displayed; and when I hit : the *bbdb* window takes half the frame
 instead of 4 lines (and sometimes it is now displayed at all).
 on a positive note, I like the highlighting and omitting some fields
 (although I want to be able to toggle their visibility).

All these things can be customized.

And the todo list contains the item:

** Facilitate update BBDB v2.x to v3

Roland

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Re: [BBDB] Changelog 2010-04-10

2011-04-13 Thread Roland Winkler
On Mon Apr 11 2011 Sam Steingold wrote:
 here is an addition:
 
 http://article.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.bbdb.user:1689
 
 From: Sam Steingold s...@gnu.org
 Subject: Make John an alternate for John Doe? (y or n)
 Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bbdb.user
 Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2005 17:37:35 -0400 (5 years, 38 weeks, 4 days ago)
 
 when I have an entry
 
 John Doe
  net: j...@foo.bar.com
 
 and I stumble upon a message
 From: John j...@foo.bar.com
 I am asked the above question:
 Make John an alternate for John Doe? (y or n)
 
 I don't think this makes any sense.
 Maybe the user names in net should be consulted in addition to AKA
 and name before asking whether John is a good alternative?

I think bbdb-use-alternate-names should help you here.

Roland

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Re: [BBDB] Changelog 2010-04-10

2011-04-13 Thread Sam Steingold
 * Roland Winkler jvax...@tah.bet [2011-04-13 10:00:04 -0500]:

 On Mon Apr 11 2011 Sam Steingold wrote:
 here is an addition:
 
 http://article.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.bbdb.user:1689
 
 From: Sam Steingold s...@gnu.org
 Subject: Make John an alternate for John Doe? (y or n)
 Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bbdb.user
 Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2005 17:37:35 -0400 (5 years, 38 weeks, 4 days ago)
 
 when I have an entry
 
 John Doe
  net: j...@foo.bar.com
 
 and I stumble upon a message
 From: John j...@foo.bar.com
 I am asked the above question:
 Make John an alternate for John Doe? (y or n)
 
 I don't think this makes any sense.
 Maybe the user names in net should be consulted in addition to AKA
 and name before asking whether John is a good alternative?

 I think bbdb-use-alternate-names should help you here.

This variable is t (and always has been).
Are you suggesting that I add all usernames to the AKA field?
(it already has John Public, John Q Public, John Q. Public c; it
would be nice if it were not necessary...)

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Re: [BBDB] Changelog 2010-04-10

2011-04-13 Thread Sam Steingold
 * Roland Winkler jvax...@tah.bet [2011-04-13 09:54:15 -0500]:

 On a similar note, I tried the new bbdb (from git) today and it does not
 look ready for prime time yet. Specifically, in gnus, when the address
 is marked with * (i.e., bbdb knows about it), *bbdb* buffer is not
 displayed; and when I hit : the *bbdb* window takes half the frame
 instead of 4 lines (and sometimes it is not displayed at all).
 on a positive note, I like the highlighting and omitting some fields
 (although I want to be able to toggle their visibility).

 All these things can be customized.

Yes, it was customized before, and it no longer works as it worked
before.

 ** Facilitate update BBDB v2.x to v3

Thanks. you might want to elaborate what it means (e.g., add
make-obsolete for all renamed variables)

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Re: [BBDB] Changelog 2010-04-10

2011-04-11 Thread Sam Steingold
small compilation warning fix:

diff --git a/lisp/bbdb-com.el b/lisp/bbdb-com.el
index 3c23b2b..d50be0a 100644
--- a/lisp/bbdb-com.el
+++ b/lisp/bbdb-com.el
@@ -26,6 +26,7 @@
 (require 'mailabbrev)
 
 (eval-and-compile
+  (autoload 'browse-url-url-at-point browse-url)
   (autoload 'build-mail-aliases mailalias))
 
 (defun bbdb-get-records (prompt)


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Re: [BBDB] Changelog 2010-04-10

2011-04-11 Thread Roland Winkler
On Mon Apr 11 2011 Sam Steingold wrote:
 small compilation warning fix:
 
 diff --git a/lisp/bbdb-com.el b/lisp/bbdb-com.el
 index 3c23b2b..d50be0a 100644
 --- a/lisp/bbdb-com.el
 +++ b/lisp/bbdb-com.el
 @@ -26,6 +26,7 @@
  (require 'mailabbrev)
  
  (eval-and-compile
 +  (autoload 'browse-url-url-at-point browse-url)
(autoload 'build-mail-aliases mailalias))
  
  (defun bbdb-get-records (prompt)


Thanks for the report, though I am surprised:  with my GNU Emacs 23.3.1
browse-url-url-at-point is anyway an autoloaded function. Which
version of emacs are you using?

Roland

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Re: [BBDB] Changelog 2010-04-10

2011-04-11 Thread Ted Zlatanov
On Sun, 10 Apr 2011 21:09:37 -0500 Roland Winkler wink...@gnu.org wrote: 

RW I just submitted a new set of changes for BBDB.
RW First of all, the most noteworthy change is that BBDB has been
RW transfered from CVS to git. So for anonymous checkout, you should
RW now use

RW git clone git://git.savannah.nongnu.org/bbdb.git

Hurray!  Now we can figure out the contribution history of all the
source code more easily before it goes into the Emacs (GNU) ELPA :) Are
you still working on that or do you need help tracking the contributors?

Thanks
Ted


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Re: [BBDB] Changelog 2010-04-10

2011-04-11 Thread Sam Steingold
 * Roland Winkler jvax...@tah.bet [2011-04-11 10:04:28 -0500]:

 Thanks for the report, though I am surprised:  with my GNU Emacs 23.3.1
 browse-url-url-at-point is anyway an autoloaded function. Which
 version of emacs are you using?

bzr tip; just bootstrapped.

also, is there a guide for upgrading my settings to the new git bbdb?
quite a few symbols were removed, some have changed names; it would be
nice if the old names were marked as obsolete aliases for the new ones
so that emacs will warn me about them when I compile my .emacs.
(if the variable's value's format has changed, it's ok to ignore it, but
marking it as obsolete is a must).

Thanks.
Sam.


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Re: [BBDB] Changelog 2010-04-10

2011-04-11 Thread Sam Steingold
 * Roland Winkler jvax...@tah.bet [2011-04-10 21:09:37 -0500]:

 - I added support for anniversaries.  My original idea was to do
   something very sophisticated based on note handlers. But this
   turned out to be too complicated to make it a robust scheme
   (Sorry guys, if anybody was looking forward to this. Let me know
   if you believe it would really be a great improvement for BBDB
   that was worth the pain of implementing it...)

   So now you just define note fields such as `birthday'. If the
   value of this field is 24 Dec 2000, this will be marked in the
   emacs diary.  See the new file bbdb-anniv.el for details.

Cool!  However, I have a small problem with this feature (and with the
printing as well).

I started using bbdb about 15 years ago and I accumulated a fairly large
.bbdb file.  Some records there are not relevant to me all that much (a
coworker from 10 years ago), so, on one hand, I do not want to remove
the record (or its parts, like address, phone, birthday c), and, on the
other hand, I do not want that record to be printed out or that birthday
mentioned in my diary.  How about a current or relevant note which
will specify just that - that the record is to be printed and its
anniversaries mentioned in the diary?

Also, people's e-mail addresses become obsolete every now and then.
Removing those addresses is not really an option because they are needed
when you read those old messages helpfully archived on gmane.org; but
having them complete in the To: field does not make sense either.
How about a new notes field (I use old-net) which would do just that:
used for matching records against mail messages but not for mail address
completion?

Thanks!

 2011-04-02  Roland Winkler  wink...@gnu.org
   * lisp/bbdb.el (bbdb-utilities-anniv): New customization group.
   (bbdb-create-hook, bbdb-change-hook)
   (bbdb-after-change-hook, bbdb-notice-hook)
   (bbdb-default-separator): Improve doc string.
   (bbdb-separator-alist): Improve doc string.  Include entries for
   anniversaries.
   (bbdb-records):  Use make-variable-buffer-local.
   (bbdb-current-field):  Do not remove field-name.
   (bbdb-record-note): Simplified.
   (bbdb-record-note-n): Removed.
   (bbdb-record-note-split): New function.
   (bbdb-record-set-note): Improved documentation.
   (bbdb-format-note, bbdb-record-format-note): New function.
   (bbdb-display-text):  Renamed from bbdb-format-text.
   (bbdb-display-list):  Renamed from bbdb-format-list.
   (bbdb-display-name-organization): Renamed from
   bbdb-format-name-organization.
   (bbdb-display-record-one-line): Renamed from
   bbdb-format-record-one-line.  Unify text properties.
   (bbdb-display-record-multi-line): Renamed from
   bbdb-format-record-multi-line.  Unify text properties.
   (bbdb-display-record-full-multi-line): Renamed from
   bbdb-format-record-full-multi-line.
   (bbdb-display-record-pop-up-multi-line): Renamed from
   bbdb-format-record-pop-up-multi-line.
   (bbdb-display-record): Renamed from bbdb-format-record.

as I said in another message, old variable names should be marked obsolete.

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Re: [BBDB] Changelog 2010-04-10

2011-04-11 Thread Roland Winkler
On Mon Apr 11 2011 Sam Steingold wrote:
  * Roland Winkler jvax...@tah.bet [2011-04-11 10:04:28 -0500]:
 
  Thanks for the report, though I am surprised:  with my GNU Emacs 23.3.1
  browse-url-url-at-point is anyway an autoloaded function. Which
  version of emacs are you using?
 
 bzr tip; just bootstrapped.

Very strange! My GNU Emacs 23.3.1 has certainly an autoload cookie
for browse-url-url-at-point in browse-url.el.

I haven't used bzr emacs lately.

 also, is there a guide for upgrading my settings to the new git
 bbdb? quite a few symbols were removed, some have changed names;
 it would be nice if the old names were marked as obsolete aliases
 for the new ones so that emacs will warn me about them when I
 compile my .emacs. (if the variable's value's format has changed,
 it's ok to ignore it, but marking it as obsolete is a must).

Very often, the rewrite implied that the details of the
implementation have changed significantly (calling sequences of
functions, allowed values of variables, etc). In that sense, simple
aliases are often not possible.

Yet I agree that it will facilitate migration for long-time BBDB
users to put together a list summarizing how old variable and
function names have been replaced by new ones. Also, I can compile a
file bbdb-obsolete.el that declares all old bbdb variables as
obsolete that are not used anymore (or with an obsolete alias if
there is a new variable that provides, indeed, the same
functionality with a new name).

I've put this on my todo list!

Roland

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Re: [BBDB] Changelog 2010-04-10

2011-04-11 Thread Roland Winkler
On Mon Apr 11 2011 Ted Zlatanov wrote:
 RW I just submitted a new set of changes for BBDB.
 RW First of all, the most noteworthy change is that BBDB has been
 RW transfered from CVS to git. So for anonymous checkout, you should
 RW now use
 
 RW git clone git://git.savannah.nongnu.org/bbdb.git
 
 Hurray! Now we can figure out the contribution history of all the
 source code more easily before it goes into the Emacs (GNU) ELPA
 :) Are you still working on that or do you need help tracking the
 contributors?

I wanted to wait for my feature freeze to make this more meaningful.
So no, up to now I did not do anything for this.  But yes, now it is
much higher up on my todo list. And help is much appreciated

Roland

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Re: [BBDB] Changelog 2010-04-10

2011-04-11 Thread Roland Winkler
On Mon Apr 11 2011 Sam Steingold wrote:
 I started using bbdb about 15 years ago and I accumulated a fairly large
 .bbdb file.  Some records there are not relevant to me all that much (a
 coworker from 10 years ago), so, on one hand, I do not want to remove
 the record (or its parts, like address, phone, birthday c), and, on the
 other hand, I do not want that record to be printed out or that birthday
 mentioned in my diary.  How about a current or relevant note which
 will specify just that - that the record is to be printed and its
 anniversaries mentioned in the diary?

Sounds like a good idea!  This should be a small thing to add and
I'll think about an efficient solution.

 Also, people's e-mail addresses become obsolete every now and
 then. Removing those addresses is not really an option because
 they are needed when you read those old messages helpfully
 archived on gmane.org; but having them complete in the To: field
 does not make sense either. How about a new notes field (I use
 old-net) which would do just that: used for matching records
 against mail messages but not for mail address completion?

I understand your point! -- This requires an efficient /
customizable scheme that specifies under which circumstances bbdb
should use only the new mail addresses or all of them.

I'll think about this! It's on my list of feature requests for bbdb.

Roland

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Re: [BBDB] Changelog 2010-04-10

2011-04-11 Thread Sam Steingold
 * Roland Winkler jvax...@tah.bet [2011-04-11 11:49:49 -0500]:

 I'll think about this! It's on my list of feature requests for bbdb.

Thanks! you might consider putting the todo list into the git repo
(together with relevant references to the discussion on gmane).

On a similar note, I tried the new bbdb (from git) today and it does not
look ready for prime time yet. Specifically, in gnus, when the address
is marked with * (i.e., bbdb knows about it), *bbdb* buffer is not
displayed; and when I hit : the *bbdb* window takes half the frame
instead of 4 lines (and sometimes it is now displayed at all).
on a positive note, I like the highlighting and omitting some fields
(although I want to be able to toggle their visibility).
I think I will be switching back...

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Re: [BBDB] Changelog 2010-04-10

2011-04-11 Thread Sam Steingold
 * Roland Winkler jvax...@tah.bet [2011-04-11 11:37:53 -0500]:

 I've put this on my todo list!

here is an addition:

http://article.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.bbdb.user:1689

From: Sam Steingold s...@gnu.org
Subject: Make John an alternate for John Doe? (y or n)
Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bbdb.user
Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2005 17:37:35 -0400 (5 years, 38 weeks, 4 days ago)

when I have an entry

John Doe
 net: j...@foo.bar.com

and I stumble upon a message
From: John j...@foo.bar.com
I am asked the above question:
Make John an alternate for John Doe? (y or n)

I don't think this makes any sense.
Maybe the user names in net should be consulted in addition to AKA
and name before asking whether John is a good alternative?


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Re: [BBDB] Changelog 2010-04-10

2011-04-11 Thread Ted Zlatanov
On Mon, 11 Apr 2011 12:18:18 -0400 Sam Steingold s...@gnu.org wrote: 

Sam I started using bbdb about 15 years ago and I accumulated a fairly large
Sam .bbdb file.  Some records there are not relevant to me all that much (a
Sam coworker from 10 years ago), so, on one hand, I do not want to remove
Sam the record (or its parts, like address, phone, birthday c), and, on the
Sam other hand, I do not want that record to be printed out or that birthday
Sam mentioned in my diary.  How about a current or relevant note which
Sam will specify just that - that the record is to be printed and its
Sam anniversaries mentioned in the diary?

Sam Also, people's e-mail addresses become obsolete every now and then.
Sam Removing those addresses is not really an option because they are needed
Sam when you read those old messages helpfully archived on gmane.org; but
Sam having them complete in the To: field does not make sense either.
Sam How about a new notes field (I use old-net) which would do just that:
Sam used for matching records against mail messages but not for mail address
Sam completion?

With Gnus at least, we could have a last-seen field that's updated
whenever you see a message from that person.  Then you can filter all
the records with last-seen over 2 years ago, for instance.

Ted


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Re: [BBDB] Changelog 2010-04-10

2011-04-11 Thread Nix
On 11 Apr 2011, Roland Winkler told this:
 - Finally, I fixed various bugs and improved the documentation.

I just noticed that BBDB development has restarted. Unfortunately
BBDB 3.0 has removed a good few features, including one I definitely
rely on: bbdb-canonicalize-net-hook, which is crucial to keep your
database clean in the face of the large number of people with
semiautomatically morphing addresses.

Is this done in some new way these days? Would you mind if I
reimplemented it? (The v2.x BBDB's canonicalize-net-hook has just broken
due to changes in the behaviour of run-hook-with-args in upstream Emacs
bzr, to wit, that it always now returns nil if called with a hook list
rather than a hook variable. This behaviour appears to be intentional:
when you think about it it doesn't make much sense to return the value
of any one hook function if there is more than one. A fix would be
trivial, but if BBDB 2.x is dead, it may not be worth doing.)

(I'll also see if bbdb-expire works with v3.0x and make it work if it
doesn't.)

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Re: [BBDB] Changelog 2010-04-10

2011-04-11 Thread Sam Steingold
 * Ted Zlatanov g...@yvsrybtf.pbz [2011-04-11 15:52:06 -0500]:

 On Mon, 11 Apr 2011 12:18:18 -0400 Sam Steingold s...@gnu.org wrote: 

 Sam I started using bbdb about 15 years ago and I accumulated a fairly large
 Sam .bbdb file.  Some records there are not relevant to me all that much (a
 Sam coworker from 10 years ago), so, on one hand, I do not want to remove
 Sam the record (or its parts, like address, phone, birthday c), and, on the
 Sam other hand, I do not want that record to be printed out or that birthday
 Sam mentioned in my diary.  How about a current or relevant note which
 Sam will specify just that - that the record is to be printed and its
 Sam anniversaries mentioned in the diary?

 Sam Also, people's e-mail addresses become obsolete every now and then.
 Sam Removing those addresses is not really an option because they are needed
 Sam when you read those old messages helpfully archived on gmane.org; but
 Sam having them complete in the To: field does not make sense either.
 Sam How about a new notes field (I use old-net) which would do just that:
 Sam used for matching records against mail messages but not for mail address
 Sam completion?

 With Gnus at least, we could have a last-seen field that's updated
 whenever you see a message from that person.

Are you suggesting a last-seen field in addition to creation-date and
timestamp?  Or maybe a last-seen field for each e-mail address?

 Then you can filter all the records with last-seen over 2 years ago,
 for instance.

This is no good.
I might be seeing messages from the person in some newsgroup every day
but still not want him in the diary or the printout.
I think both diary and printout are too personal enough for a
catch-all solution.

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Re: [BBDB] Changelog 2010-04-10

2011-04-11 Thread Sam Steingold
 * Nix a...@rfcrev.bet.hx [2011-04-11 22:32:19 +0100]:

 I just noticed that BBDB development has restarted. Unfortunately
 BBDB 3.0 has removed a good few features, including one I definitely
 rely on: bbdb-canonicalize-net-hook, which is crucial to keep your
 database clean in the face of the large number of people with
 semiautomatically morphing addresses.

it's still there - just under a different name.
what's missing is a
(make-obsolete 'bbdb-canonicalize-net-hook
 'bbdb-canonicalize-mail-function 3.0)
somewhere in bbdb-obsolete.el or something...

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Cannot handle the fatal error due to a fatal error in the fatal error handler.


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[BBDB] Changelog 2010-04-10

2011-04-10 Thread Roland Winkler
I just submitted a new set of changes for BBDB.

First of all, the most noteworthy change is that BBDB has been
transfered from CVS to git. So for anonymous checkout, you should
now use

git clone git://git.savannah.nongnu.org/bbdb.git

I am most grateful to Ted Zlatanov and Barak Pearlmutter who
actually did all the work for this. The new git repository contains
not only the new bbdb, but as a separate branch it even contains the
full history of BBDB.

The CVS repository on savannah will not be updated anymore. If
hopefully git works for everyone as expected, the CVS repository
will be removed soon.

What are the changes in the latest code?

- I added support for anniversaries.  My original idea was to do
  something very sophisticated based on note handlers. But this
  turned out to be too complicated to make it a robust scheme
  (Sorry guys, if anybody was looking forward to this. Let me know
  if you believe it would really be a great improvement for BBDB
  that was worth the pain of implementing it...)

  So now you just define note fields such as `birthday'. If the
  value of this field is 24 Dec 2000, this will be marked in the
  emacs diary.  See the new file bbdb-anniv.el for details.

- I made bbdb-transpose-fields more robust. Now this should also
  work for any subfields that can be transposed, including even
  first and last names (if somehow these are in wrong order).

- On a more technical side, I separated formatting functions from
  display functions more consistently.  (This was a byproduct of my
  attempts to define the note handlers.)

- Finally, I fixed various bugs and improved the documentation.

2011-04-02  Roland Winkler  wink...@gnu.org
* lisp/bbdb.el (bbdb-utilities-anniv): New customization group.
(bbdb-create-hook, bbdb-change-hook)
(bbdb-after-change-hook, bbdb-notice-hook)
(bbdb-default-separator): Improve doc string.
(bbdb-separator-alist): Improve doc string.  Include entries for
anniversaries.
(bbdb-records):  Use make-variable-buffer-local.
(bbdb-current-field):  Do not remove field-name.
(bbdb-record-note): Simplified.
(bbdb-record-note-n): Removed.
(bbdb-record-note-split): New function.
(bbdb-record-set-note): Improved documentation.
(bbdb-format-note, bbdb-record-format-note): New function.
(bbdb-display-text):  Renamed from bbdb-format-text.
(bbdb-display-list):  Renamed from bbdb-format-list.
(bbdb-display-name-organization): Renamed from
bbdb-format-name-organization.
(bbdb-display-record-one-line): Renamed from
bbdb-format-record-one-line.  Unify text properties.
(bbdb-display-record-multi-line): Renamed from
bbdb-format-record-multi-line.  Unify text properties.
(bbdb-display-record-full-multi-line): Renamed from
bbdb-format-record-full-multi-line.
(bbdb-display-record-pop-up-multi-line): Renamed from
bbdb-format-record-pop-up-multi-line.
(bbdb-display-record): Renamed from bbdb-format-record.
(bbdb-parse-internal, bbdb-parse-frobnicate): Simplified search
for first record.
(bbdb-delete-record-internal, bbdb-overwrite-record-internal):
Disentangle code.

* lisp/bbdb-com.el (bbdb-editable): Throw error if *BBDB* buffer
is out of sync with database.
(bbdb-search): Use suffix -re for all args that are regular
expressions.
(bbdb-delete-duplicate-mails, bbdb-sort-addresses)
(bbdb-sort-phones, bbdb-sort-notes): New optional arg update.
(bbdb-record-edit-note): Renamed from bbdb-record-edit-notes.
(bbdb-list-transpose, bbdb-ident-point): New functions.
(bbdb-transpose-fields): Use them.  Make code more robust such
that it can be applied to any subfields of the same type.
(bbdb-field-equal, bbdb-next-field): Removed (obolete).
(bbdb-mail-aliases, bbdb-get-mail-aliases, bbdb-add-mail-alias)
(bbdb-browse-url): Use bbdb-record-note-split.

* lisp/bbdb-mua.el (bbdb-mua-wrapper): Do not use
rmail-select-summary.
(bbdb-mua-auto-update): Bug fix.

* lisp/bbdb-rmail.el (bbdb-insinuate-rmail)
* lisp/bbdb-mhe.el (bbdb-insinuate-mh): Bind to
bbdb-mua-edit-notes-sender.

* lisp/bbdb-vm.el (bbdb/vm-auto-folder, bbdb/vm-virtual-folder)
(bbdb/vm-auto-add-label): Use bbdb-record-note-split.

* lisp/bbdb-print.el (bbdb-print-omit-fields): Remove `omit'.

* lisp/bbdb-anniv.el: New file.

* lisp/Makefile: Honor lisp/bbdb-anniv.el.

BBDB is avaiable at
http://git.savannah.nongnu.org/cgit/bbdb.git
To check it out, use
git clone git://git.savannah.nongnu.org/bbdb.git

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