From: "IG", [EMAIL PROTECTED]
The point I was trying to make is that the police are
subject to the same laws as anyone else. We don't have
any special exemptions. I am afraid that Richard Worth
has lost me off altogether. I will ring him tomorrow an
see if he can explain this new
From: "IG", [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Nuremberg has no bearing on any legal precedent in the UK, not is it the
basis for the establishment of any legal principle. It is certainly not
included in the list of any stated or decided cases.What laws do you think
the police should enforce? Who sho
From: "IG", [EMAIL PROTECTED]
My own experience of the police involvement with this evil
event come from the apparent joy these blokes gained
from being able to deprive innocent citizens of their
lawfully owned property.
I know each one of the officers personally who
From: "IG", [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Actually pressure drops with altitude. What you were experiencing was the
effect of reduced air density. Density drops with elevated temperatures and
altitudes.
Dave
What I meant was an increase in cartridge pressure, not the ambient air
pressure.
From: "IG", [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I think they were a sniper school set
up by some landed gent who was fed up of the Germans sniping his men. it
consisted of gamekeepers ghillies and landed gents who enjoyed game hunting
etc.
I think the person you are talking about could be Maj
From: "IG", [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Small protest at first hunt of season
A small group of saboteurs has descended on a hunt meeting in West Kent and
tried to disrupt it.
Its always been a source of wonder to me as to why the hunts never picket
the ALF homes or meeting places
From: "IG", [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Kenneth:
There is a poster or plaque, can't remember which, over the entrance. It has
3 black clad soldiers, reapirators, etc. One holds an MP5, another a grenade
and the third a Remington 870 I think.
They are crouching, and the words 'stand
From: "IG", [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Rusty and Jeff Wood seem to have a problem with anonymity
being granted to Police Officers involved in shootings. As
a police officer myself, I cant see what there problem is. It
seems to me to be yet another case of 'lets have a go at
the police 'cos
From: "IG", [EMAIL PROTECTED]
OK, now everyone, including me, has had the chance to sound of and get
things off their chest. Take a step back and look at things from all angles.
ARV crews are volunteers. They have to perform normal duties alongside their
armed role and switc
From: "IG", [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Steve
Yes, those forces and indeed most forces have dedicated armed units. The
problem is that the members of these units do more than firearms work. They
are also expected to meet 'performance indicators' by handing out speeding
tickets, HORT 1's, verba
From: "IG", [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On the point about the bad laws on the books, there
is no obligation for the police to enforce them in
the same way that that the Nurenberg trials held.
Police officers are not blindly obligated to
uphold bad law. It's not that simple I realise,
but
From: "IG", [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web Site of Police Federation of England and Wales:
http://www.polfed.org/main_frame.htm
They are still building this but soon you'll be able to
send them e-mails.
I guess that there are more than one or two people who
can't wait to comme
From: "IG", [EMAIL PROTECTED]
The Police and everyone else generally need warrants to enter your house.
There are exceptions though: In order to save life or prevent a breach of
the peace, in immediate pursuit of an offender or suspected offender or
person unlawfully at large,
From: "IG", [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I've heard estimates that one third of the UK police
engage in corruption of some kind - ie take bribes
from criminals, resell seized drugs etc, engage in
clear-up figure fiddling etc. That one third of the UK
police know enough about corruption going
From: "IG", [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I have used an M77 in .308 for a number of years now.
We also have a few as sniping rifles.
Using 167 gr Lapua scenar, I get sub minute of angle out to 600m, which is
as far as I have ever shot it.
(Fitted with a Schmidt 12 x 42)
My own has seen a lot
From: "IG", [EMAIL PROTECTED]
In the case of Stefan Kisko he was convicted of raping and murdering a
child. He did 16 years inside as a child molester. Had the law allowed,
he would have been hanged.
The law didn't allow, so where is the point you are making?
The law didn't all
From: "IG", [EMAIL PROTECTED]
No, this figure of 5% is just pure rubbish and IG knows it,
he probably just chose it because it sounds catchy. If it
were correct I certainly wouldn't be associating with this
type of person and if it were right I would be getting rather
worrie
From: "IG", [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I forget his name now (McGartland?) but he applied for
an FAC for self-defence and already held one in Northern
Ireland. Northumbria Police unfortunately followed Home
Office Guidance and Mr McGartland had a visit from some
IRA terrorists. As far as
From: "IG", [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tempting first prize as it's rumoured that cops always have the best dope
(or is that employ). Second prize worries me slightly as I would prefer to
know which poor shooter is being roasted to provide the main course.
I regret I can't claim the prize bu
From: "IG", [EMAIL PROTECTED]
You're part of this
equation IG, so you come in for a bit of stick I'm afraid. But no-one's
calling you a Nazi.
OK, fair comment, I was probably overdoing the irony bit. I'm a little
sensitive about nazi's.
Actually, I tend to agree with most of what
From: "IG", [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Well being fair this dosen't sound like a negligent
discharge to me. Cramp is not something you can
control, if it were Swimmers wouldn't drown because of it.
This seems like one of the rare occurences of a genuine
accidental discharge as far as
From: "IG", [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Hm... This wasn't the bloke who investigated the
Met in the 60's-70's? When the Drugs Squad were
dealing drugs, CID were setting up bank jobs and the
porn squad was raiding dirty book shops and then selling
the stuff back to the s
From: "IG", [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I G
If we assume that your thoughts on this may be held by other officers, then
why was it executed?
Does this mean that your fellow officers, if given ANY order, will follow it
to the letter, irrespective of their thoughts as to it being un-reasona
From: "IG", [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Would this be the male half of the investigative duo in the MEIKLEJOHN
LEIDL mysteries?
A good, well researched answer.
Unfortunately, it is incorrect.
You are the weakest link...etc etc.
IG
Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org
From: "IG", [EMAIL PROTECTED]
It is the strength of the views that counts, you are 100% wrong on
that one, because a poll may say 80% of people support the laws
but of those people few will base their vote on it. However,
if you're a shooter, you are far more likely to take the
c
From: "IG", [EMAIL PROTECTED]
IG would the police support a club these days if the applicant was from an
ethnic minority and in the clubs opinion not suitable?
Good question.
I would like to think that would be the case.
As I said..I would LIKE to think
The poli
From: "IG", [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Whatever happened to the idea of innocent
until proven guilty?
Puzzled a bit by this one. Who said anything about innocent or gulity?
Semantics is not a favourite subject, but here we go.
Is a law abiding person one who commits offences without be
From: "IG", [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Within 1000 yards of my office there has been
one murder, two attempted murders (one of whom was a WPC),
one armed robbery, at least two shootings and more assaults
that I care to mention. Within a mile there was a smack dealer
who was ambushed b
From: "IG", [EMAIL PROTECTED]
There are people who live in Blakenhall who have sold the glass
and doors out of their council house to buy heroin.
If there were no gun controls, they could have legally bought firearms and
nothing could have been done about it.
It is but a small
From: "IG", [EMAIL PROTECTED]
How many police officers have spotless pasts, whether they were
convicted or not?
Would you rather form a partnership with non-criminals in your
country in opposition to serious crime? Or treat every
non-officer like a future perpetrator...
From: "IG", [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Are you going to honestly say that British folks on this
list have as much ability to defend themselves as I do?
If you want me to, I will. Do you want me to? Or do you want an honest
answer?
Why? IT's the most important reason for owning firearms.
I
From: "IG", [EMAIL PROTECTED]
A recent case in Kent had a judge
being furious with a Crown prosecutor who declined to co-operate with his
plea-bargaining strategy over some Kosovars and other ex-Yugoslavian dross
who'd created mayhem in the street, and they escaped the priso
From: "IG", [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Like I said before, I'm not against controls totally, but I don't
think this is a good example of why they are a good idea.
It may or may not be a good example, but that is neither here nor there.
It's met with a deafening silence by the people wh
From: "IG", [EMAIL PROTECTED]
IG,
Quite so, the presumption of innocence is the fundamental common law
right;
You do know that don't you?
Wearily.
I have never, ever, not once, ever, in any way, shape or form, or in any
fashion that might have been able to be
From: "IG", [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Not hounding you, IG, but when you say, Total freedom of firearms
means
that people like this would be free to have firearms. you miss the point,
which is that he WAS armed, and from what we know about him he would have
been armed without regard
From: "IG", [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Well, on behalf of themG, I would say the fact that it took
20-odd years to figure out who he was and the fact he held
a license during all that time does not indicate the effectiveness
of the controls. During those twenty years he could have done
a
From: "IG", [EMAIL PROTECTED]
But he's right that it is the best argument. If the antis
argue that guns ought to banned because it might save one
life, what's the counter argument? That banning guns will
cost lives. Believe me, if some deer stalker goes beserk
and shoots dead twe
From: "IG", [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Firearms for self defence in the home are lawful as the following
extract from the debates on the Prevention of Crime Act 1953 confirms. The
Bill only applied to the carriage of weapons in public places. Lord Lloyd
(a sponsor of the Bill) reminded
From: "IG", [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I've got to say that last paragraph is pretty patronising,
exercising a civil right is not a sign of "necessity". The
point he's making is that he has that right, we don't,
or rather we did.
No it isnt. The point he's making is that, in th
From: "IG", [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Certainly. Your country has effectively banned self defense
for most but will probably throw its peasants against the
wire the next time the German juggernaut cruises through Belgium
and France. It treats people on this list like pawns to be
used but
From: "IG", [EMAIL PROTECTED]
We didn't have this trouble when Laudanum
was available over the pharmacy counter, and we didn't have it for
just two reasons : purity of supply and administration, and the lack
of pushers with a vested interest both in (arbitrary) cutting and in
the p
From: "IG", [EMAIL PROTECTED]
This is incorrect for those reasons. Claiming otherwise through innorance
is
no excuse either because it breaches the common law requirement for Crown
servants to know the law;
'We will appoint as justices, constables, sheriffs, or other officials
From: "IG", [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Salmon Rushdie said
on US TV that he had asked for a gun and the police had
refused. Who can coherently argue that people like that
shouldn't have a gun for self-defence?
OK, I'll take up that challenge, as you might expect G
Why should someone who
From: "IG", [EMAIL PROTECTED]
IG you are as socially inept as you are legally.
Well well well.
What a comment form someone who uses the prehistoric American police concept
of justifiable use of a firearm. AOJ.
My God. That died a death in the 60's!
I still have an old black and whit
From: "IG", [EMAIL PROTECTED]
A New York detective has bled to death after his gun went off while he
was
cleaning it.
How can a gun go off when its being cleaned? And if it does, how on earth
can it be accidental?
Negligent, yes.
Acidental, no.
IG
Stands by to repel boarders
Cyb
From: "IG", [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Again, why let fact get in the way of a good rumour.
I quoted the oft repeated comments that are spouted by the rabid
anti-shooting lobby.
As the point seems to be lost, why not consider the reality of things. If a
rumour is repeated often enough, it be
From: "IG", [EMAIL PROTECTED]
They say sorry to go on at such length but thought you would appreciate
the background and indeed THE FACTS
Sorry if I made any mistakes,
OOerr
lol
Amazing the reaction that you can get just 'cos you think something is naff!
lol
IG
Cyb
From: "IG", [EMAIL PROTECTED]
When I was a boy I was taught to trust and like the police; these days I
don't. I do my best to keep
contact with the police to an absolute minimum, and the same goes for a hell
of a lot of people I know. Sorry.
Dear Ant
My point exactly.
I am a shooter
From: "IG", [EMAIL PROTECTED]
The people who made the comments that IG is witness to, are
extreme bigots; and if they occupy any office of government, they are
particularly dangerous as well. I wonder: would they be able to defend
them in an open law court?
Ho hum. Here we go again
From: "IG", [EMAIL PROTECTED]
It certainly doesn't inspire me with confidence to hear a copper
saying he thinks he _knows_ certificate holders who aren't
suitable to hold a certificate.
Don't think, I know.
And am dealing with it! Its a rolling process though.get one out
From: "IG", [EMAIL PROTECTED]
A
Then why are you not reporting this and getting their
certs pulled, especially if you are correct about the
"..potentially dangerous..." ones?
B
even if what IG was saying had an element of truth to it, (a)
it's more like 0.005% and (
From: "IG", [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Well done mate. Through your own ignorance you have just condemned the
people
who like to shoot practical rifle
Where in heavens name did I mention practical rifle shooters?
Bloody hell, man, I shoot practical rifle. Where did you get this
from?
From: "IG", [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I don't think it's as difficult to do as IG makes it out to be,
all the questions of who should be allowed to carry and
what the criteria should be can be thrashed out by the
usual methods Parliament uses in all legislation designed
to regulate somet
From: "IG", [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I have to say I can't recall any SGC or FAC holders that
worried me to the extent that I thought they were
dangerous. Some of them are a bit strange in their own
way, but I suppose we would come across as being a bit
strange to your average punter. I
From: "IG", [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I have to agree with both points about trusting the police and trusting
shooters! I would agree that about 5% are people who have "something" about
them, an "air" of racism, sexism and unpleasantness. Of whom do I speak?
Police
From: "IG", [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I think IG has too is being a bit misleading when he says he is
preventing the "wrong" sort of people from owning firearms. You are
doing no such thing! Only preventing certain people, who you don't like,
from LEGALLY owning firearms. All you
From: "IG", [EMAIL PROTECTED]
The restrictions which you have in mind, be they heavy or light,
bear only on people who have no desire or propensity to commit
crime. Such restrictions are not in the interests of society as a
whole. So the answer to your assumption is no. Guns shou
From: "IG", [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Take a look at http://www.kleasen.org.uk
Now, I see that a gun club eventually shopped this guy. Good for them.
Yes, it was outrageous that the Police gave him a certificate. No excuses
there at all. Total incompetence.
However, some of the contrib
From: "IG", [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I should also point out that prior to 1922 (can stand being corrected if
the date
is wrong) british subjects did have unrestricted access to firearms and
carried them for self defence, can you point to any research that shows
that this was a probl
From: "IG", [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I think this debate has run its course.
I cannot, in all honesty, be bothered to repeat myself all the time by
responding to individual posts.
I have clearly stated my position, which is universally disagreed with.
(Venomously and vehemently I might add
From: "IG", [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On the basis that IG feels free to pass judgement on the character of
members of the shooting fraternity, I feel just as free to state that he is
just a "wind-up artist", bent on provoking hasty and unwise comments by the
use of provocative
From: "IG", [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I have difficulty reconciling the fact that whereas I put up
with all the BS connected with owning firearms legally the local drug
dealers get no hassle at all over their firearms or how they use them!
This is a common thread, so lets deal with it.
Fi
From: "IG", [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Ya know, IG? Maybe if you cops were to have Friday night
ho-down, and 'let it all hang out', you chaps would gain a sense of humor!
Just a suggestion . . .
Whats a ho-down?
Do we need banjo players?
IG
Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters
From: "IG", [EMAIL PROTECTED]
What? Are you implying that we have a law regulating the MISUSE of
drugs? etc
Oh God.
Read the whole of that post please.
The reason for mentioning that list of laws was to illustrate that there are
more laws to break nowadays, therefore crime figures
From: "IG", [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Please provide one example of a person on this list who has
said this person should be armed. Your straw man just
won't stand up.
Peter Jackson openly advocates total freedom of movement of firearms. That
is one.
Others seek the same end.
Tot
From: "IG", [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Prior to 1970 it was still illegal to drive a car whilst pissed, it was
just
harder for the police to randomly stop people. Now Essex police CC boast
about how many people have their rights infringed every christmas in the
knowledge that it serves
From: "IG", [EMAIL PROTECTED]
There's a gunsmith in Austria who makes revolvers in
.458 Winchester Magnum, there was a review in
Internationales Waffen Magazin.
Presumably he makes them for novelty value. I personally wouldn't fancy
shooting top loaded .458's out of a revolver!
(Wo
From: "IG", [EMAIL PROTECTED]
And BTW your snide response to our American correspondent who emphasised
his
freedom to carry defensive weapons was out of place: many people whose
business takes them to our inner cities would be glad to be able to defend
themselves against criminals
From: "IG", [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Last night I enjoyed a couple of pints with a chum of mine,
discussing such
things as shooting the Winchester 458 Magnum; ..
What earthly use is a .458 Win Mag (presumably thats what you mean) got to
do with self defence?
I assume that you agre
From: "IG", [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I can just about wear the argument that there MIGHT be some people who could
make out a case for carrying a firearm for protection. I am not too sure
what the circumstances might be, but if that was the case, I would consider
that various things
From: "IG", [EMAIL PROTECTED]
These things are *directly*
the result of proscription and absolutely *nothing* to do either with the
pharmacological affect of the drugs nor of the rave culture.
That no-one in mainstream politics or the Civil Service appears to be able
to
extract any
From: "IG", [EMAIL PROTECTED]
So the answer to your question is yes, I'd be "happy" for this guy
to own
guns, if I was secure in the knowledge that he was hugely outnumbered by
ordinary - but armed - citizens, a situation that used to obtain in this
country pre-
From: "IG", [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I am concerned that our friend in blue, IG, is becoming slightly jumpy. I
didn't imply, old chum, that 458 Win Mag (picky!) is a viable self-defence
round - unless it was for shooting a burglar's getaway vehicle, 'cos I dare
say it would penetrate an en
From: "IG", [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Find the three keys (two for firearm, one for ammunition)
which are kept in different locations;
Unlock the secure storage where firearm and ammunition are
stored (as per FAC requirement).
Insert action and load ammunition.
Why did I just know that pe
From: "IG", [EMAIL PROTECTED]
You're talking about bodyguards being ineffective, which if anything
only bolsters the argument for the intended victim to be armed. If
the Queen had had a pistol in a holster, she could have shot back.
Not if she was lying on the pavement leaking bloo
From: "IG", [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I know where there are a number, if you would care to email me.
IG
Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org
List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
___
T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17
N
From: "IG", [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I think this point drives to the heart of the debate on gun control and
the
fact that you answer it with levity disappoints me.
Oh dear. You dont really need me to answer this!
Prince Phillip did it better than I could when he quoted the case for
cr
From: "IG", [EMAIL PROTECTED]
as I'd come to the conclusion that offering reasoned
argument against IG's wilder claims was a waste of time and effort, since he
simply resorts to saying he knows what's best for us, in true authoritarian
style. I've given up - life's too short. Perhaps
From: "IG", [EMAIL PROTECTED]
If IG is still with us and has any concerns about this
please let us know. Until recently I was unsure about these things myself
but not now. And I have a duty to put him right g.
The term we use is 'barrack room lawyer'.
Someone who thinks he kn
From: "IG", [EMAIL PROTECTED]
You aren't going to get away with that, that's not what you said,
you said under certain circumstances you could accept that some
people had justification for a firearm for self-defence.
I despair.
That's hardly in my official capacity is it?
From: "IG", [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I am afraid that the world of constant anti police and anti authority
extremism is not my world.
I had hoped, being a keen shooter, to be involved in discussions about
shooting, not constantly responding to people who dissect every sentence I
make, put
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