Re: [Emc-developers] Eye candy is important - Titan got a new German friend - want that reaction for a LinuxCNC controller

[andy pugh]

On Sun, 4 Dec 2022 at 20:23, Rod Webster  wrote:

>
> @Andy, For users with modern hardware, there are many more gotchas due to
> lack of driver support in  our current buster ISO.


I am not talking about the Buster ISO, but the idea of our own Bullseye /
Bookwork ISO too.

Note that the live-build process largely does exactly the process that you
describe, it has a list of packages to install and build the image using
those packages and their dependencies.
Our ISO is built the same way as the Debian "official" ISO but with a
different set of packages and some installer responses pre-seeded to reduce
the chances of user error. (like setting a root password)

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed
for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912

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Re: [Emc-developers] Eye candy is important - Titan got a new German friend - want that reaction for a LinuxCNC controller

[Rod Webster]

@hans, I'm glad you found the process smooth.
If you found missing dependencies for Gmoccapy, the correct approach would
be to log an issue and list the missing dependencies that should be added
to the package. That's your fault as a gmocappy maintainer if it remains a
gotcha.

Yes it is annoying that Debian hides the bookworm ISOs. The other place to
get them is from the weekly builds but since the alpha version has been
built, it's easier to find now.

In any case, Bookworm changes continually so net install is likely the best
option. eg. It has had Kernels 1.15,5,17,5,19 and 6.0 since I've used it.
Once bookworm is released, the internet challenged could just order a DVD
if they wished.

Ever since I first started to install linuxcnc, it has always been
recommended to me to do it with a wired internet connection. There is
inevitably something required that is not on the ISO. I would never
consider an installation without internet.

@Andy, For users with modern hardware, there are many more gotchas due to
lack of driver support in  our current buster ISO. This is what has driven
me and many others to Debian in the first place. I am still waiting to
review a working bootable Debian ISO from you and Steffen. As of last
attempt it was still missing a kernel.
Of all the gotchas here, the only real issue is the one in our control and
that dependencies.

@hans if you look at the problem just reported on the forum you linked to,
note that the user is running bullseye (confirmed by the 5.10 kernel
version). This I expect means he compiled from source. It needs resolution
by the Gmocappy team to resolve his problem (likely missing dependencies
like you experienced). I am sure if our deb build system knew of your
additional dependencies, the issue would never have been experienced.


Rod Webster
*1300 896 832*
+61 435 765 611
Vehicle Modifications Network
www.vehiclemods.net.au


On Mon, 5 Dec 2022 at 05:27, andy pugh  wrote:

> On Sun, 4 Dec 2022 at 11:45, Rod Webster  wrote:
>
> > In recent days, Linuxcnc does not seem to like the Wayland based
> graphical
> > ...
> > Do not add a root password so the default user can use sudo.
> > ...
>
> You might like to disable autologon and the screensaver.
>
>
> That's three "gotchas" that can catch out the unitiated, but that can be
> avoided in our own installer.
> The LinuxCNC ISO exists to lower the bar for those new users who may never
> have used Linux at all (I was one such, I had never looked at Linux until I
> decided to control my CNC machine with LinuxCNC)
> A new user needs to download and install an ISO anyway, so it might as well
> be the one that does all the work rather that one that leaves the steps you
> enumerate to be done later.
>
> Another advantage of our Live image is that it allows putative users to try
> out the system (and run a latency test) on their existing computers to see
> which are good candidates.
>
> For users who already have a working Linux installation, of course,
> installing from the packages is the way to go.
> But the ISO is not for them.
>
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed
> for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics."
> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
>
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>

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Re: [Emc-developers] Eye candy is important - Titan got a new German friend - want that reaction for a LinuxCNC controller

[Hans Unzner]

Am 04.12.22 um 20:25 schrieb andy pugh:

On Sun, 4 Dec 2022 at 11:45, Rod Webster  wrote:


In recent days, Linuxcnc does not seem to like the Wayland based graphical
...
Do not add a root password so the default user can use sudo.
...

You might like to disable autologon and the screensaver.


That's three "gotchas" that can catch out the unitiated, but that can be
avoided in our own installer.
The LinuxCNC ISO exists to lower the bar for those new users who may never
have used Linux at all (I was one such, I had never looked at Linux until I
decided to control my CNC machine with LinuxCNC)
A new user needs to download and install an ISO anyway, so it might as well
be the one that does all the work rather that one that leaves the steps you
enumerate to be done later.

Another advantage of our Live image is that it allows putative users to try
out the system (and run a latency test) on their existing computers to see
which are good candidates.

For users who already have a working Linux installation, of course,
installing from the packages is the way to go.
But the ISO is not for them.

... and an ISO would reduce amount of support. Here a good example: 
https://forum.linuxcnc.org/gmoccapy/47566-gmoccapy-found-an-error


@Rod, this is by the way the same error I get on Bookworm.


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Re: [Emc-developers] Eye candy is important - Titan got a new German friend - want that reaction for a LinuxCNC controller

[andy pugh]

On Sun, 4 Dec 2022 at 11:45, Rod Webster  wrote:

> In recent days, Linuxcnc does not seem to like the Wayland based graphical
> ...
> Do not add a root password so the default user can use sudo.
> ...

You might like to disable autologon and the screensaver.


That's three "gotchas" that can catch out the unitiated, but that can be
avoided in our own installer.
The LinuxCNC ISO exists to lower the bar for those new users who may never
have used Linux at all (I was one such, I had never looked at Linux until I
decided to control my CNC machine with LinuxCNC)
A new user needs to download and install an ISO anyway, so it might as well
be the one that does all the work rather that one that leaves the steps you
enumerate to be done later.

Another advantage of our Live image is that it allows putative users to try
out the system (and run a latency test) on their existing computers to see
which are good candidates.

For users who already have a working Linux installation, of course,
installing from the packages is the way to go.
But the ISO is not for them.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed
for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912

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Re: [Emc-developers] Eye candy is important - Titan got a new German friend - want that reaction for a LinuxCNC controller

[Hans Unzner]

Am 04.12.22 um 12:41 schrieb Rod Webster:

Hans,
This is what I mean. People here have never bothered to get familiar with
the greatest achievement in the dev area in 20 years! Debian packaging!

Debian Bookworm (aka testing) has been installable from an ISO on the
Debian web site ever since Bullseye was released.
Google run their whole organisation on bookworm.  Don't believe the rot
about it being unstable.
The current kernel is 6.0 from memory.

I would start with the Bookworm  alpha release which includes the non-free
firmware (which will be included as standard  when it goes live)
https://www.debian.org/devel/debian-installer/
I usually use the net installer otherwise you might have to comment out
the CD lines in sources.list
In recent days, Linuxcnc does not seem to like the Wayland based graphical
environments in Bookworm (eg the default gnome), Instead I recommend
installing our old favourite XFCE which is Xorg based. If you forget this,
you can do it later by using tasksel and select XFCE later from the log on
screen.
Do not add a root password so the default user can use sudo.

Once Debian is installed, all you need to do is type:
sudo apt-get install linuxcnc-uspace
sudo apt-get install linuxcnc-uspace-dev (for the dev tools like halcompile)
sudo apt-get install mesaflesh (for mesa users)

Thats it! PREEMPT_RT gets installed and everything will be in the cnc menus
etc due to the magic of Debian.
You might like to disable autologon and the screensaver. This will vary
between gnome and xfce so a quick google will tell you how to do it.

It will install happily on a VM on Windows such as VMware player or virtual
box.
Yes for installing there are ISOs available, but I was talking about a 
live-version.
I gave it a try and installed the bookworm alpha 1 and installed 
linuxcnc-uspace via apt. Went quite smooth but at the end there were 
still dependencies missing for running Gmoccapy.

Besides that, these points speaks for an own ISO:
- installing linuxcnc from the debian repository requires internet 
access, not every workshop computer might have that
- when not using the net install version, you have to chose the DVD 
version which is bigger (~twice the size compared to current buster images)
- picking the correct version from unstable could be also an obstacle 
for new users (as well as the bookworm installer shows "Debian 11"...)


The last two points would fall away when Bookworm is official released. 
But until then...



On Sun, 4 Dec 2022 at 21:08, Hans Unzner  wrote:



Am 30.11.22 um 19:58 schrieb Rod Webster:

I would hazard a guess you could download the debian ISO, install it and
linuxcnc-uspace
in the same time as it would take to download and install our own ISO
purely because of
the superior bandwidth and global mirrors in the Debian environment.

The problem here is that Bookworm isn't released yet and you can't get a
live-ISO from the official sources.
I think the download time doesn't matter here - you can do something 
else during this...

It's really disappointing to see people in this group who do not

understand

our Debian install process
and the benefits it brings.


Then maybe it's time to teach/tell them? ;-)


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Re: [Emc-developers] Eye candy is important - Titan got a new German friend - want that reaction for a LinuxCNC controller

[Jérémie Tarot]

Le dim. 4 déc. 2022 à 12:45, Rod Webster  a écrit :

> Hans,
> This is what I mean. People here have never bothered to get familiar with
> the greatest achievement in the dev area in 20 years! Debian packaging!
>

We're getting there thanks to Petter's and Steffen's efforts! 


Google run their whole organisation on bookworm.  Don't believe the rot
> about it being unstable.
>

I run my workstations and laptops on Testing derivatives for more than 10
years. Kali is a beauty to work on daily 


The current kernel is 6.0 from memory.
>

It is... And note to others, beware of the upgrade with those shitty NVidia
proprietary drivers 郎


I would start with the Bookworm  alpha release... net installer...
>

Best way to install any connected Debian system, period!
I'd favor KDE, but that's just a matter of taste and coherence with my
preferences for Qt[Py]VCPs.


Once Debian is installed, all you need to do is type:
> sudo apt-get install linuxcnc-uspace
> sudo apt-get install linuxcnc-uspace-dev (for the dev tools like
> halcompile)
> sudo apt-get install mesaflesh (for mesa users)
>

Which can be done in a single command... or in your favorite GUI package
manager if you have a glass of 12 yo in the other hand 


You might like to disable autologon and the screensaver. This will vary
> between gnome and xfce so a quick google will tell you how to do it.
>

Maybe adding menu entries to easily toggle these settings could be a nice
as it's a common support request?

TY
J

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Re: [Emc-developers] Eye candy is important - Titan got a new German friend - want that reaction for a LinuxCNC controller

[Rod Webster]

Hans,
This is what I mean. People here have never bothered to get familiar with
the greatest achievement in the dev area in 20 years! Debian packaging!

Debian Bookworm (aka testing) has been installable from an ISO on the
Debian web site ever since Bullseye was released.
Google run their whole organisation on bookworm.  Don't believe the rot
about it being unstable.
The current kernel is 6.0 from memory.

I would start with the Bookworm  alpha release which includes the non-free
firmware (which will be included as standard  when it goes live)
https://www.debian.org/devel/debian-installer/
I usually use the net installer otherwise you might have to comment out
the CD lines in sources.list
In recent days, Linuxcnc does not seem to like the Wayland based graphical
environments in Bookworm (eg the default gnome), Instead I recommend
installing our old favourite XFCE which is Xorg based. If you forget this,
you can do it later by using tasksel and select XFCE later from the log on
screen.
Do not add a root password so the default user can use sudo.

Once Debian is installed, all you need to do is type:
sudo apt-get install linuxcnc-uspace
sudo apt-get install linuxcnc-uspace-dev (for the dev tools like halcompile)
sudo apt-get install mesaflesh (for mesa users)

Thats it! PREEMPT_RT gets installed and everything will be in the cnc menus
etc due to the magic of Debian.
You might like to disable autologon and the screensaver. This will vary
between gnome and xfce so a quick google will tell you how to do it.

It will install happily on a VM on Windows such as VMware player or virtual
box.

Rod Webster
*1300 896 832*
+61 435 765 611
Vehicle Modifications Network
www.vehiclemods.net.au


On Sun, 4 Dec 2022 at 21:08, Hans Unzner  wrote:

>
>
> Am 30.11.22 um 19:58 schrieb Rod Webster:
> >> It lowers the bar for everyone. Installing a real time kernel and all
> the
> >> dependencies might keep some people from just trying it.
> >> And it allows running it as a live system without even needing to
> install
> >> something.
> > @hans, have you ever tried installing from the bookworm repositories?
> > All of the dependencies including PREEMPT_RT are part of the package so
> > they are installed
> > automatically when you install linuxcnc-uspace! There is nothing else the
> > user requires!
> @Rod
> You mean on bookworm? Or on Bullseye and adding the Bookworm repositories?
> >
> > I would hazard a guess you could download the debian ISO, install it and
> > linuxcnc-uspace
> > in the same time as it would take to download and install our own ISO
> > purely because of
> > the superior bandwidth and global mirrors in the Debian environment.
> The problem here is that Bookworm isn't released yet and you can't get a
> live-ISO from the official sources.
> >
> > It's really disappointing to see people in this group who do not
> understand
> > our Debian install process
> > and the benefits it brings.
> >
> >
> >
> > Rod Webster
> > *1300 896 832*
> > +61 435 765 611
> > Vehicle Modifications Network
> > www.vehiclemods.net.au
>
>
> ___
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>

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Re: [Emc-developers] Eye candy is important - Titan got a new German friend - want that reaction for a LinuxCNC controller

[Hans Unzner]

Am 30.11.22 um 19:58 schrieb Rod Webster:

It lowers the bar for everyone. Installing a real time kernel and all the
dependencies might keep some people from just trying it.
And it allows running it as a live system without even needing to install
something.

@hans, have you ever tried installing from the bookworm repositories?
All of the dependencies including PREEMPT_RT are part of the package so
they are installed
automatically when you install linuxcnc-uspace! There is nothing else the
user requires!

@Rod
You mean on bookworm? Or on Bullseye and adding the Bookworm repositories?


I would hazard a guess you could download the debian ISO, install it and
linuxcnc-uspace
in the same time as it would take to download and install our own ISO
purely because of
the superior bandwidth and global mirrors in the Debian environment.
The problem here is that Bookworm isn't released yet and you can't get a 
live-ISO from the official sources.


It's really disappointing to see people in this group who do not understand
our Debian install process
and the benefits it brings.



Rod Webster
*1300 896 832*
+61 435 765 611
Vehicle Modifications Network
www.vehiclemods.net.au



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Re: [Emc-developers] Eye candy is important

[Small Shop Concepts]

Awesome!  Thanks Steffan!

On Sat, Dec 3, 2022, 2:09 PM Steffen Möller  wrote:

> This turned into quite a thread.
>
> @Kurt, you did everything just right.
>
> There should not be much of a difference between LinuxCNC-related work
> that is part of the same git repository, within the LinuxCNC github
> organisation or external to it. I'll do my best to keep packaging your
> dependencies and while we will miss the upcoming Debian freeze for them, we
> should manage for the next.
>
> Best,
> Steffen
>
> > Gesendet: Freitag, 02. Dezember 2022 um 02:57 Uhr
> > Von: "Kurt Jacobson" 
> > An: "EMC developers" 
> > Betreff: Re: [Emc-developers] Eye candy is important - Titan got a new
> German friend - want that reaction for a LinuxCNC controller
> >
> > Good evening!
> >
> > I have been busy starting a family so have been completely out of the
> > LinuxCNC loop lately,
> > glad to see most of the old familiar names still active, as well as the
> new
> > ones!
> >
> > I have not thoroughly read this thread, but I have read enough to be
> > discouraged
> > by some of the things said.
> >
> > As far as I know, we are all here for the fun of a good mental
> > challenge and to enjoy some
> > time away for the usual stress of work and life. I don't think anybody is
> > trying to compete in
> > any but a constructive manner or "steal market share" from any other GUI
> > project.
> >
> >
> >
> > > IIUC, @hazzy had a "control agnostic UI" vision in the beginning. That
> > > could explain why the project was created outside LinuxCNC.
> > > But others may have better knowledge of the whys and hows...
> > >
> >
> > You are 100% correct.
> > I'm not sure where the rather obvious bitterness over the QtPyVCP project
> > originated,
> > but I can explain why I chose to start a seperate Qt based VCP toolkit.
> >
> >
> > Here is a quick history of the origins of QtPyVCP which may prove
> helpful.
> >
> > When I first started playing with LinuxCNC (2013), I had absolutely no
> > coding or Linux experience of any kind.
> > I learn by doing, so I started reading the LinuxCNC source code, trying
> to
> > understand it and make my
> > own UI based off of Gmoccapy. The result of this was the first "Hazzy"
> > (haas-like) UI I made:
> > https://github.com/KurtJacobson/hazzy/tree/legacy
> >
> > I posted screenshots of Hazzy on the forms and got some interest (TurBoss
> > for one),
> > so I tried to figure out how I could share it with others. I found this
> > extremely difficult
> > as I had no GIT experience and the files I had modified to get the
> > functionality I wanted
> > were spread all over through the LinuxCNC code base.
> >
> > There is no way I would have got a PR to the main LinuxCNC accepted,
> > since my code style was non-existent and I was intimidated by the PR
> > process.
> > (The linuxcnc dev community can be a little intimidating at times ...)
> >
> > I wished there was an easy way for newbies like myself to create and
> > share VCPs without them needing to be polished to the same level as the
> > main code base.
> > This is something that Mach3 had that made a huge range if UIs available.
> >
> > TurBoss and I started trying to make a Mach3 style screen designer with
> > drag and drop pre-made widgets.
> > We did this with GtK and it worked reasonable well, but then we started
> > having Gtk compatibility issues
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rh7IONE3Lsk
> >
> > TurBoss had been working with Qt for other projects, so I decided to play
> > with Qt as an alternative to Gtk.
> > I learned of the QtPy project, and thought it would be neat to have the
> > same level of abstraction between the
> > machine control (LinuxCNC, GRBL etc.) and the UI so you could develop UIs
> > for multiple controls with the same toolkit,
> >
> > By this time Chris M. was starting QtVCP, so to learn Qt I started
> > studying and helping him on various things,
> > but I was intimidated and my creativity stifled by having to PR to the
> main
> > QtVCP branch.
> >
> > This led me to start a repo for my vision of an abstract, control
> agnostic,
> > plugin-based VCP toolkit using QtPy
> > and PyDM as its inspiration, hence the name QtPyVCP (it was originally
> > QtPyMD for QtPy Machine Display).
> >
> > While QtPyVCP has remained much closer tied to LinuxCNC-only than I
> > originally hoped,

Re: [Emc-developers] Eye candy is important

[Steffen Möller]

This turned into quite a thread.

@Kurt, you did everything just right.

There should not be much of a difference between LinuxCNC-related work that is 
part of the same git repository, within the LinuxCNC github organisation or 
external to it. I'll do my best to keep packaging your dependencies and while 
we will miss the upcoming Debian freeze for them, we should manage for the next.

Best,
Steffen

> Gesendet: Freitag, 02. Dezember 2022 um 02:57 Uhr
> Von: "Kurt Jacobson" 
> An: "EMC developers" 
> Betreff: Re: [Emc-developers] Eye candy is important - Titan got a new German 
> friend - want that reaction for a LinuxCNC controller
>
> Good evening!
>
> I have been busy starting a family so have been completely out of the
> LinuxCNC loop lately,
> glad to see most of the old familiar names still active, as well as the new
> ones!
>
> I have not thoroughly read this thread, but I have read enough to be
> discouraged
> by some of the things said.
>
> As far as I know, we are all here for the fun of a good mental
> challenge and to enjoy some
> time away for the usual stress of work and life. I don't think anybody is
> trying to compete in
> any but a constructive manner or "steal market share" from any other GUI
> project.
>
>
>
> > IIUC, @hazzy had a "control agnostic UI" vision in the beginning. That
> > could explain why the project was created outside LinuxCNC.
> > But others may have better knowledge of the whys and hows...
> >
>
> You are 100% correct.
> I'm not sure where the rather obvious bitterness over the QtPyVCP project
> originated,
> but I can explain why I chose to start a seperate Qt based VCP toolkit.
>
>
> Here is a quick history of the origins of QtPyVCP which may prove helpful.
>
> When I first started playing with LinuxCNC (2013), I had absolutely no
> coding or Linux experience of any kind.
> I learn by doing, so I started reading the LinuxCNC source code, trying to
> understand it and make my
> own UI based off of Gmoccapy. The result of this was the first "Hazzy"
> (haas-like) UI I made:
> https://github.com/KurtJacobson/hazzy/tree/legacy
>
> I posted screenshots of Hazzy on the forms and got some interest (TurBoss
> for one),
> so I tried to figure out how I could share it with others. I found this
> extremely difficult
> as I had no GIT experience and the files I had modified to get the
> functionality I wanted
> were spread all over through the LinuxCNC code base.
>
> There is no way I would have got a PR to the main LinuxCNC accepted,
> since my code style was non-existent and I was intimidated by the PR
> process.
> (The linuxcnc dev community can be a little intimidating at times ...)
>
> I wished there was an easy way for newbies like myself to create and
> share VCPs without them needing to be polished to the same level as the
> main code base.
> This is something that Mach3 had that made a huge range if UIs available.
>
> TurBoss and I started trying to make a Mach3 style screen designer with
> drag and drop pre-made widgets.
> We did this with GtK and it worked reasonable well, but then we started
> having Gtk compatibility issues
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rh7IONE3Lsk
>
> TurBoss had been working with Qt for other projects, so I decided to play
> with Qt as an alternative to Gtk.
> I learned of the QtPy project, and thought it would be neat to have the
> same level of abstraction between the
> machine control (LinuxCNC, GRBL etc.) and the UI so you could develop UIs
> for multiple controls with the same toolkit,
>
> By this time Chris M. was starting QtVCP, so to learn Qt I started
> studying and helping him on various things,
> but I was intimidated and my creativity stifled by having to PR to the main
> QtVCP branch.
>
> This led me to start a repo for my vision of an abstract, control agnostic,
> plugin-based VCP toolkit using QtPy
> and PyDM as its inspiration, hence the name QtPyVCP (it was originally
> QtPyMD for QtPy Machine Display).
>
> While QtPyVCP has remained much closer tied to LinuxCNC-only than I
> originally hoped,
> I believe it has been successful at lowering the barrier to creating and
> sharing custom user interfaces.
>
>
> Again, use of similar technologies is a not an issue but an opportunity to
> > find commonalities and join forces on shared libs or whatever, freeing
> > resources for what is done truly differently in each project
>
>
> 100%
>
>
> > > Nothing wrong with being independent, seems to work for both projects.
> >
> >
> > Indeed, considering the success of QtPyVCP, as an outsider, it doesn't seem
> > to impede its deve

Re: [Emc-developers] Eye candy is important - Titan got a new German friend - want that reaction for a LinuxCNC controller

[Jérémie Tarot]

Le ven. 2 déc. 2022 à 03:01, Kurt Jacobson  a
écrit :

>
> I have been busy starting a family so have been completely out of the
> LinuxCNC loop lately,glad to see most of the old familiar names still
>
active, as well as the new ones!
>

"Starting a family" ? Good one ! This never, ever ends LOL
Very glad to have you back on the field Kurt :)


I have not thoroughly read this thread, but I have read enough to be
> discouraged by some of the things said.
>

Don't, please. We are, for once, discussing big matters in a handful of
threads,
and that is good !
We may have diverging visions, contradictory opinions and incompatible
plans,
but at least we are putting them on the table.
And we all know what a traitor e-mail communication can be... at least I,
as a
hot-headed, irreverent, chatty Mediterranean, have paid that price often
enough :-/
Lets good willingly receive fears and (fair, well-argued) criticisms, and
welcome
ideas be they old reborn, new or even "disruptive" as they say ;-)


As far as I know, we are all here for the fun of a good mental
> challenge and to enjoy some time away for the usual stress of work
>
and life. I don't think anybody is trying to compete in any but a
> constructive
>
manner or "steal market share" from any other GUI project.
>

To the fun and mental challenge, I'd add the great will of Open Source:
making
the world a better place.
This is an important point as its consideration may heavily impact the
project
vision from a garage tinkerer software, to a world class project FOSS
project for
users, developers, education and professionals.


> IIUC, @hazzy had a "control agnostic UI" vision in the beginning. That
> > could explain why the project was created outside LinuxCNC.
> > But others may have better knowledge of the whys and hows...
> >
>
> You are 100% correct. I'm not sure where the rather obvious bitterness
> over
>
the QtPyVCP project originated, but I can explain why I chose to start a
>
seperate Qt based VCP toolkit.
>

Let me try an explanation... the developers' loneliness and frustration to
see
someone start something new instead of joining forces whereas they already
painfully lack of it ?
Push that into communication traps... And here we are


Here is a quick history of the origins of QtPyVCP which may prove helpful.


Thank you so much for writing this down ! 
This part _must_ be copy-pasted in the "About" section of QtPyVCP's doc, as
this gives the missing contextual understanding of the project that is the
bond
with LinuxCNC

While QtPyVCP has remained much closer tied to LinuxCNC-only than I
> originally hoped, I believe it has been successful at lowering the
> barrier to
>
creating and sharing custom user interfaces.
>

True, and I believe QtVCP, the nice UIs built with it, and its extensive
(learned it
to my expense ) documentation does the same.
Anyway, they are the modern toolkits rocking the stage nowadays, with people
behind them, ideas to develop and will to go forward... Let's focus on that
and
walk along !

Important question is, does QtPyVCP vision still holds that control
agnostic strategy,
how deep, and to what end ? From that essentially may depend the soundness
of the
project joining LinuxCNC's.


> Indeed, considering the success of QtPyVCP, as an outsider, it doesn't
> seem
> > to impede its development and progress !
>
> I think the very fact that it is a seperate project is what has made it so
> successful. It is much less intimidating for a new user to contribute to
> a small
> focussed project, than a massive sprawling code base like LinucCNC has
>
become, and this is why I believe QtPyVCP should remain at least in a
>
separate repo.
>

Can't agree more ! I'm surely not advocating main repository split to
invite QtPyVCP
to an additional big merge 
This is also exactly the point I was making some time ago: subprojects
buried into
main repo get their lifecycle slowed by the necessarily long one of the
core, as well
as their overly tight (vs intimate, which is good) link with the code base,
tests, docs and
build system is holding back their evolution (or withdrawal !).



> > > I'm sure neither project wants their years of work trampled on.
>
> As I said before, I believe most if not all of us are here for fun and to 
> enjoy
>
>
working together.
> If I Was under the impression somebody thought I was trampling on their
> work, I'd move on to a group that encouraged constructive turning up of
> the
> ground!
>

In such case, you wouldn't go anywhere alone...

TY
J

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Re: [Emc-developers] Eye candy is important - Titan got a new German friend - want that reaction for a LinuxCNC controller

[Kurt Jacobson]

Good evening!

I have been busy starting a family so have been completely out of the
LinuxCNC loop lately,
glad to see most of the old familiar names still active, as well as the new
ones!

I have not thoroughly read this thread, but I have read enough to be
discouraged
by some of the things said.

As far as I know, we are all here for the fun of a good mental
challenge and to enjoy some
time away for the usual stress of work and life. I don't think anybody is
trying to compete in
any but a constructive manner or "steal market share" from any other GUI
project.



> IIUC, @hazzy had a "control agnostic UI" vision in the beginning. That
> could explain why the project was created outside LinuxCNC.
> But others may have better knowledge of the whys and hows...
>

You are 100% correct.
I'm not sure where the rather obvious bitterness over the QtPyVCP project
originated,
but I can explain why I chose to start a seperate Qt based VCP toolkit.


Here is a quick history of the origins of QtPyVCP which may prove helpful.

When I first started playing with LinuxCNC (2013), I had absolutely no
coding or Linux experience of any kind.
I learn by doing, so I started reading the LinuxCNC source code, trying to
understand it and make my
own UI based off of Gmoccapy. The result of this was the first "Hazzy"
(haas-like) UI I made:
https://github.com/KurtJacobson/hazzy/tree/legacy

I posted screenshots of Hazzy on the forms and got some interest (TurBoss
for one),
so I tried to figure out how I could share it with others. I found this
extremely difficult
as I had no GIT experience and the files I had modified to get the
functionality I wanted
were spread all over through the LinuxCNC code base.

There is no way I would have got a PR to the main LinuxCNC accepted,
since my code style was non-existent and I was intimidated by the PR
process.
(The linuxcnc dev community can be a little intimidating at times ...)

I wished there was an easy way for newbies like myself to create and
share VCPs without them needing to be polished to the same level as the
main code base.
This is something that Mach3 had that made a huge range if UIs available.

TurBoss and I started trying to make a Mach3 style screen designer with
drag and drop pre-made widgets.
We did this with GtK and it worked reasonable well, but then we started
having Gtk compatibility issues
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rh7IONE3Lsk

TurBoss had been working with Qt for other projects, so I decided to play
with Qt as an alternative to Gtk.
I learned of the QtPy project, and thought it would be neat to have the
same level of abstraction between the
machine control (LinuxCNC, GRBL etc.) and the UI so you could develop UIs
for multiple controls with the same toolkit,

By this time Chris M. was starting QtVCP, so to learn Qt I started
studying and helping him on various things,
but I was intimidated and my creativity stifled by having to PR to the main
QtVCP branch.

This led me to start a repo for my vision of an abstract, control agnostic,
plugin-based VCP toolkit using QtPy
and PyDM as its inspiration, hence the name QtPyVCP (it was originally
QtPyMD for QtPy Machine Display).

While QtPyVCP has remained much closer tied to LinuxCNC-only than I
originally hoped,
I believe it has been successful at lowering the barrier to creating and
sharing custom user interfaces.


Again, use of similar technologies is a not an issue but an opportunity to
> find commonalities and join forces on shared libs or whatever, freeing
> resources for what is done truly differently in each project


100%


> > Nothing wrong with being independent, seems to work for both projects.
>
>
> Indeed, considering the success of QtPyVCP, as an outsider, it doesn't seem
> to impede its development and progress !
>

I think the very fact that it is a seperate project is what has made it so
successful.
It is much less intimidating for a new user to contribute to a small
focussed project,
than a massive sprawling code base like LinucCNC has become, and this is
why I
believe QtPyVCP should remain at least in a separate repo.


> > I'm sure neither project wants their years of work trampled on.
> >
>

As I said before, I believe most if not all of us are here for fun and to
enjoy working together.
If I Was under the impression somebody thought I was trampling on their
work,
I'd move on to a group that encouraged constructive turning up of the
ground!


> Unless you consider the LinuxCNC Qt UI land as your backyard, I can't see
> how welcoming a young dynamic project with a kind and active community, a
> trampling hazard for QtVCP ?!
>

I truly miss the LinuxCNC community!
Hopefully I'll have time to get back up to speed and in the coding saddle
soon!

Cheers!
Kurt aka Hazzy



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Re: [Emc-developers] Eye candy is important - Titan got a new German friend - want that reaction for a LinuxCNC controller

[Jérémie Tarot]

Le jeu. 1 déc. 2022 à 22:47, Small Shop Concepts  a
écrit :

>
> The collaboration there is fantastic and the general positive can-do
> attitude helped to push things along.  If something is dreamt up it is
> tried and tested and if it works it is implemented.  It has been by far the
> most fast paced and innovative team mentality group I have had the pleasure
> of working with to date.  It is driven by some extremely talented
> developers genuinely excited about the creative process.
>

This, 1000 %
The biggest risk we'd take by bringing them in (I mean in the organization,
NOT the repository !) would be to pull that good vibes in... how awful ! ;-)

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Re: [Emc-developers] Eye candy is important - Titan got a new German friend - want that reaction for a LinuxCNC controller

[Jérémie Tarot]

Le jeu. 1 déc. 2022 à 20:36, Small Shop Concepts  a
écrit :

>
> I was under the impression we were collaborators not competitors?
>

I really hope we are mate, I really hope...

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Re: [Emc-developers] Eye candy is important - Titan got a new German friend - want that reaction for a LinuxCNC controller

[Jérémie Tarot]

Le jeu. 1 déc. 2022 à 19:42, Chris Morley  a
écrit :

> Because qtpyvcp and qtvcp do the same job using mostly the same tools
> (python and qt)
>
> If qtpyvcp wanted to be under the linuxcnc unberella they could have
> continued working in qtvcp instead of making a new independent, project.


IIUC, @hazzy had a "control agnostic UI" vision in the beginning. That
could explain why the project was created outside LinuxCNC.
But others may have better knowledge of the whys and hows...

Again, use of similar technologies is a not an issue but an opportunity to
find commonalities and join forces on shared libs or whatever, freeing
resources for what is done truly differently in each project.


> Nothing wrong with being independent, seems to work for both projects.


Indeed, considering the success of QtPyVCP, as an outsider, it doesn't seem
to impede its development and progress !


> I'm sure neither project wants their years of work trampled on.
>

Unless you consider the LinuxCNC Qt UI land as your backyard, I can't see
how welcoming a young dynamic project with a kind and active community, a
trampling hazard for QtVCP ?!

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Re: [Emc-developers] Eye candy is important - Titan got a new German friend - want that reaction for a LinuxCNC controller

[Small Shop Concepts]

"How are integrators (ie, GUI / Panel designers) meant to pick between QtVCP
and the very similarly named QtPyVCP? They do the same thing,
fundamentally."

Does that even matter at the user level for gui selection?

I am not privy to why the two were divided and frankly could care less as a
designer, I was looking for a different option than existing 2018 gui's
that didn't exist and ran across the BrendaEM thread.  I began contributing
to it but it seemed stifled and uncertain if that designer would continue
moving forward so I looked for the next way to achieve the goal of a new
UI. When I saw a functioning control panel video in one of the posts I said
ok there is a way forward to make an updated gui a reality. So for me it
was the first one that I found with something actually functioning which
was QtPyVCP.  I spent the next 4 and half years working on that platform.
The collaboration there is fantastic and the general positive can-do
attitude helped to push things along.  If something is dreamt up it is
tried and tested and if it works it is implemented.  It has been by far the
most fast paced and innovative team mentality group I have had the pleasure
of working with to date.  It is driven by some extremely talented
developers genuinely excited about the creative process.

I think a designer would be able to choose which they would want to work in
and at this point they are different enough that it is relevant.  The fact
that their exists several very well received usable gui's in both is also a
strong reason.  By excluding one it is  essentially short changing user
choices.  So the bigger question is why would anyone want to do that?


On Thu, Dec 1, 2022 at 3:12 PM andy pugh  wrote:

> On Wed, 30 Nov 2022 at 23:31, Steffen Moeller 
> wrote:
>
> I consider all our users to be somehow part of our project and am
> > agnostic about the interface they are using. From how I see it, if
> > PyQtVCP does something better than QtVCP then QtVCP gets some
> > encouragement and ideas on how to improve and vice versa. Both GUIs
> > should be as easy to install and use as possible.
>
>
> We already see users getting confused about whether they are using PyVCP
> (hand-coded XML input files)
>  https://linuxcnc.org/docs/stable/html/gui/pyvcp.html
> Or GladeVCP (more capable, more widgets, has Python handlers. designed
> using a GUI (which is horrible, unintiutive and crashes a lot)
> https://linuxcnc.org/docs/stable/html/gui/gladevcp.html
>
> How are integrators (ie, GUI / Panel designers) meant to pick between QtVCP
> and the very similarly named QtPyVCP? They do the same thing,
> fundamentally.
>
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed
> for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics."
> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
>
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Re: [Emc-developers] Eye candy is important - Titan got a new German friend - want that reaction for a LinuxCNC controller

[Jérémie Tarot]

Le jeu. 1 déc. 2022 à 17:19, andy pugh  a écrit :

> On Thu, 1 Dec 2022 at 16:06, Jérémie Tarot  wrote:
>
> Absolutely ! I already told JT and said here that MesaCT repository surely
> > deserves to join the LinuxCNC organization 
> >
>
> Then new users are _really_ going to need a flowchart to get them going.
>

Ate least I immediately knew what MesaCt was meant to ! Took me months to
understand it for PnCConf (okay, I didn't RTFM at that time)

> Are you using a Mesa card ?
>

Nope, I missed buying a card when they were still available and life
forecast tends to think that there won't be any CNC under this roof before
long :'( ...

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Re: [Emc-developers] Eye candy is important - Titan got a new German friend - want that reaction for a LinuxCNC controller

[Steffen Möller]

> Gesendet: Donnerstag, 01. Dezember 2022 um 21:07 Uhr
> Von: "andy pugh" 
> An: "EMC developers" 
> Betreff: Re: [Emc-developers] Eye candy is important - Titan got a new German 
> friend - want that reaction for a LinuxCNC controller
>
> On Wed, 30 Nov 2022 at 23:31, Steffen Moeller 
> wrote:
>
> I consider all our users to be somehow part of our project and am
> > agnostic about the interface they are using. From how I see it, if
> > PyQtVCP does something better than QtVCP then QtVCP gets some
> > encouragement and ideas on how to improve and vice versa. Both GUIs
> > should be as easy to install and use as possible.
>
>
> We already see users getting confused about whether they are using PyVCP
> (hand-coded XML input files)
>  https://linuxcnc.org/docs/stable/html/gui/pyvcp.html
> Or GladeVCP (more capable, more widgets, has Python handlers. designed
> using a GUI (which is horrible, unintiutive and crashes a lot)
> https://linuxcnc.org/docs/stable/html/gui/gladevcp.html
>
> How are integrators (ie, GUI / Panel designers) meant to pick between QtVCP
> and the very similarly named QtPyVCP? They do the same thing,
> fundamentally.

One problem (that I can eventually help with) is the documentation that does 
not mention PyQtVCP even once. You just gave a very nice introduction for the 
other VCPs (better than what I recall to have read in the documentation) that 
we should extend for PyQtVCP, which would be a paragraph and a reference to the 
external documentation.

Users will start with the GUI that looks the best, convinced that someone who 
too special care to make something look nice will also have cared for the bits 
underneath, and it is the only thing they can evaluate at that point. If we 
have a couple of good GUIs that are easy to change then it does not matter 
which one a user starts with. Let the confusion begin, I mean, let the many 
GUIs (or GUI building blocks) come.

Best,
Steffen





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Re: [Emc-developers] Eye candy is important - Titan got a new German friend - want that reaction for a LinuxCNC controller

[andy pugh]

On Wed, 30 Nov 2022 at 23:31, Steffen Moeller 
wrote:

I consider all our users to be somehow part of our project and am
> agnostic about the interface they are using. From how I see it, if
> PyQtVCP does something better than QtVCP then QtVCP gets some
> encouragement and ideas on how to improve and vice versa. Both GUIs
> should be as easy to install and use as possible.


We already see users getting confused about whether they are using PyVCP
(hand-coded XML input files)
 https://linuxcnc.org/docs/stable/html/gui/pyvcp.html
Or GladeVCP (more capable, more widgets, has Python handlers. designed
using a GUI (which is horrible, unintiutive and crashes a lot)
https://linuxcnc.org/docs/stable/html/gui/gladevcp.html

How are integrators (ie, GUI / Panel designers) meant to pick between QtVCP
and the very similarly named QtPyVCP? They do the same thing,
fundamentally.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed
for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912

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Re: [Emc-developers] Eye candy is important - Titan got a new German friend - want that reaction for a LinuxCNC controller

[Small Shop Concepts]

" I consider all our users to be somehow part of our project and am
agnostic about the interface they are using. From how I see it, if
PyQtVCP does something better than QtVCP then QtVCP gets some
encouragement and ideas on how to improve and vice versa. Both
GUIsshould be as easy to install and use as possible. Neither QtVCP
nor QtPyVCP are GUIs, they are infrastructure for creating GUIS.  I
would think that most users will use neither, they will just use the
GUIs that have been developed."

100% ^^^

On Wed, Nov 30, 2022 at 7:32 PM Phill Carter  wrote:
>
>
>
> > On 1 Dec 2022, at 10:27 am, Steffen Moeller  wrote:
> >
> >
> > Am 30.11.2022 um 19:12 schrieb Chris Morley:
> >> The difference is free cad doesn't compete with anything in linuxcnc. 
> >> Qtpycp does. If they wanted to be included in linuxcnc, then they would 
> >> have been part of the project. They made a choice.
> >> Otherwise as I said you are undermining the hard work of the devs that are 
> >> active in our project.
> >
> > I consider all our users to be somehow part of our project and am
> > agnostic about the interface they are using. From how I see it, if
> > PyQtVCP does something better than QtVCP then QtVCP gets some
> > encouragement and ideas on how to improve and vice versa. Both GUIs
> > should be as easy to install and use as possible.
> Neither QtVCP nor QtPyVCP are GUIs, they are infrastructure for creating GUIS.
> I would think that most users will use neither, they will just use the GUIs 
> that have been developed.
>
> >
> > Best,
> > Steffen
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> -------- Original message 
> >> From: Steffen Moeller 
> >> Date: 2022-11-30 9:35 a.m. (GMT-08:00)
> >> To: emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net
> >> Subject: Re: [Emc-developers] Eye candy is important - Titan got a new 
> >> German friend - want that reaction for a LinuxCNC controller
> >>
> >>
> >> Am 29.11.2022 um 19:06 schrieb Chris Morley:
> >>> Are you discussing an official linuxcnc release of ISOs?
> >> So I hope.
> >>> Are you suggesting including qtpyvcp on the ISO?
> >> There are four Python modules missing in Debian to do so, from what I
> >> have yet understood. But I feel motivated to help out, just locally
> >> packaged oyaml.
> >>> In my mind that undermines qtvcp which is actually part of linuxcnc.
> >>> Full disclosure, qtvcp is project I started so I am slightly biased.
> >> My motivation is to bring the best of Open Source CNC on Linux together
> >> to help myself and others. And from what I hear and see, this includes
> >> PyQtVCP. You may have a point for the minimal version of that .iso, but
> >> for the full featured one it should be in, also FreeCAD and inkscape.
> >>
> >> Steffen
> >>
> >>>  Original message 
> >>> From: Steffen Möller 
> >>> Date: 2022-11-29 8:53 a.m. (GMT-08:00)
> >>> To: LinuxCNC Dev Mailing List 
> >>> Subject: [Emc-developers] Eye candy is important - Titan got a new German 
> >>> friend - want that reaction for a LinuxCNC controller
> >>>
> >>> Hello,
> >>>
> >>> No need to watch this, really. Titan has a nice Heller machine and passes 
> >>> the Sinumeric control
> >>> https://youtu.be/zToKZtqQMIo?t=354
> >>> with some excitement. I actually find LinuxCNC even nicer, especially for 
> >>> what I saw from https://www.qtpyvcp.com/ .
> >>>
> >>> When we yesterday had this OpenMike session again, we had felt like there 
> >>> should be four USB sticks prepared:
> >>>a) for two distros - Bullseye (Debian stable) and Bookworm (Debian 
> >>> testing, soon stable)
> >>>b) in two flavours - minimalistic and fully-featured (including 
> >>> FreeCAD and Inkscape to make a good impression on those who come from the 
> >>> other OS)
> >>>
> >>> Andy had some confidence (and I share that) that the generation of those 
> >>> .iso files per se is not difficult. It was not immediately clear where 
> >>> the generation of those .iso files should happen, but the builders 
> >>> maintained by Sebastian are a likely target IMO.
> >>>
> >>> Question: Is there anybody out there who would like to work with me on a 
> >>> description and implementation of what the fully-featured .ISO should 
> >>> like alike? This would be Intel-only as a start,

Re: [Emc-developers] Eye candy is important - Titan got a new German friend - want that reaction for a LinuxCNC controller

[Small Shop Concepts]

I am not sure how that would be perceived as trampling on Qtvcp and
that sounds like a very personal reason for exclusion of QtPyVCP UI's.
I think that mentality is crippling to Linuxcnc's future and growth.
I was under the impression we were collaborators not competitors?

On Thu, Dec 1, 2022 at 1:42 PM Chris Morley  wrote:
>
> Because qtpyvcp and qtvcp do the same job using mostly the same tools (python 
> and qt)
>
> If qtpyvcp wanted to be under the linuxcnc unberella they could have 
> continued working in qtvcp instead of making a new independent, project. 
> Nothing wrong with being independent, seems to work for both projects.
> It is too bad we divided the effort but what is done is done.
>
> I'm sure neither project wants their years of work trampled on.
>
> Chris
>
>
>
>
> Sent from my Galaxy
>
>  Original message 
> From: Jérémie Tarot 
> Date: 2022-12-01 8:06 a.m. (GMT-08:00)
> To: EMC developers 
> Subject: Re: [Emc-developers] Eye candy is important - Titan got a new German 
> friend - want that reaction for a LinuxCNC controller
>
> Le jeu. 1 déc. 2022 à 16:47, Small Shop Concepts  a
> écrit :
>
> > I think it would be great if QtPyVCP were included in Linuxcnc. I'm not
> > sure how you mean it would undermine qtvcp?  Isn't Linuxcnc stronger with
> > more options for users?
>
>
> Further, IIRC @cmorley, you're our UI API uniformization champion, aren't
> you ? And I support that 1000% !
> What could be better on this front than to bring the other modern VCP
> toolkit to the table ? And another awesome chap like @TurBoss !
>
>
> > I know JT also has been working on a config builder that is
> > working really nicely and has added some features making setting up Mesa
> > very simple and streamlined.
> >
>
> Absolutely ! I already told JT and said here that MesaCT repository surely
> deserves to join the LinuxCNC organization 
>
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Re: [Emc-developers] Eye candy is important - Titan got a new German friend - want that reaction for a LinuxCNC controller

[Chris Morley]

Because qtpyvcp and qtvcp do the same job using mostly the same tools (python 
and qt)

If qtpyvcp wanted to be under the linuxcnc unberella they could have continued 
working in qtvcp instead of making a new independent, project. Nothing wrong 
with being independent, seems to work for both projects.
It is too bad we divided the effort but what is done is done.

I'm sure neither project wants their years of work trampled on.

Chris




Sent from my Galaxy

 Original message 
From: Jérémie Tarot 
Date: 2022-12-01 8:06 a.m. (GMT-08:00)
To: EMC developers 
Subject: Re: [Emc-developers] Eye candy is important - Titan got a new German 
friend - want that reaction for a LinuxCNC controller

Le jeu. 1 déc. 2022 à 16:47, Small Shop Concepts  a
écrit :

> I think it would be great if QtPyVCP were included in Linuxcnc. I'm not
> sure how you mean it would undermine qtvcp?  Isn't Linuxcnc stronger with
> more options for users?


Further, IIRC @cmorley, you're our UI API uniformization champion, aren't
you ? And I support that 1000% !
What could be better on this front than to bring the other modern VCP
toolkit to the table ? And another awesome chap like @TurBoss !


> I know JT also has been working on a config builder that is
> working really nicely and has added some features making setting up Mesa
> very simple and streamlined.
>

Absolutely ! I already told JT and said here that MesaCT repository surely
deserves to join the LinuxCNC organization 

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Re: [Emc-developers] Eye candy is important - Titan got a new German friend - want that reaction for a LinuxCNC controller

[andy pugh]

On Thu, 1 Dec 2022 at 16:16, Chad Woitas 
wrote:

>
> Sounds to me like a package manager is what ya'll are looking for.
> Download Base Linuxcnc, and add in the UI's and interfaces afterwards.


Splitting the LinuxCNC package into sub-packages is probably more work than
anyone has the appetite for. The code base has developed assuming that all
dependencies are all there.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed
for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912

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Re: [Emc-developers] Eye candy is important - Titan got a new German friend - want that reaction for a LinuxCNC controller

[andy pugh]

On Thu, 1 Dec 2022 at 16:06, Jérémie Tarot  wrote:

Absolutely ! I already told JT and said here that MesaCT repository surely
> deserves to join the LinuxCNC organization 
>

Then new users are _really_ going to need a flowchart to get them going.

Are you using a Mesa card?
Which one?
In that case you can use either MesaCT or PnCConf, or both. Depending on
which card and how it is connected. Or maybe neither.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed
for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912

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Re: [Emc-developers] Eye candy is important - Titan got a new German friend - want that reaction for a LinuxCNC controller

[Chad Woitas]

Sounds to me like a package manager is what ya'll are looking for. Download 
Base Linuxcnc, and add in the UI's and interfaces afterwards.

-Chad

From: Small Shop Concepts 
Sent: December 1, 2022 9:43 AM
To: EMC developers 
Subject: Re: [Emc-developers] Eye candy is important - Titan got a new German 
friend - want that reaction for a LinuxCNC controller

I think it would be great if QtPyVCP were included in Linuxcnc. I'm not
sure how you mean it would undermine qtvcp?  Isn't Linuxcnc stronger with
more options for users? As the developer of Probe Basic and speaking on
behalf of the thousands of Probe Basic users out there I am sure they would
also like to see an easier method of installation.  I know JT has many UI's
that are used and Joco and Rod have been working on a really awesome plasma
ui and Turboss is constantly pushing the envelope with new functionality
and features for non standard machine types.  Making these more accessible
for users would only increase the possibility of attracting new users and
open up development pathways for future growth and additions of UI
development.  I know JT also has been working on a config builder that is
working really nicely and has added some features making setting up Mesa
very simple and streamlined.  I think this would be a very good things for
Linuxcnc, and i say that with out Bias as I think qtvcp is great also and
also adds strength to Linuxcnc's future growth path.  Those are my thoughts
at elast!

Chris

On Tue, Nov 29, 2022 at 1:11 PM Chris Morley 
wrote:

> Are you discussing an official linuxcnc release of ISOs? Are you
> suggesting including qtpyvcp on the ISO? In my mind that undermines qtvcp
> which is actually part of linuxcnc.
> Full disclosure, qtvcp is project I started so I am slightly biased.
>
> Chris
>
>
>
> Sent from my Galaxy
>
>
>
>  Original message 
> From: Steffen Möller 
> Date: 2022-11-29 8:53 a.m. (GMT-08:00)
> To: LinuxCNC Dev Mailing List 
> Subject: [Emc-developers] Eye candy is important - Titan got a new German
> friend - want that reaction for a LinuxCNC controller
>
> Hello,
>
> No need to watch this, really. Titan has a nice Heller machine and passes
> the Sinumeric control
> https://youtu.be/zToKZtqQMIo?t=354
> with some excitement. I actually find LinuxCNC even nicer, especially for
> what I saw from https://www.qtpyvcp.com/ .
>
> When we yesterday had this OpenMike session again, we had felt like there
> should be four USB sticks prepared:
>   a) for two distros - Bullseye (Debian stable) and Bookworm (Debian
> testing, soon stable)
>   b) in two flavours - minimalistic and fully-featured (including FreeCAD
> and Inkscape to make a good impression on those who come from the other OS)
>
> Andy had some confidence (and I share that) that the generation of those
> .iso files per se is not difficult. It was not immediately clear where the
> generation of those .iso files should happen, but the builders maintained
> by Sebastian are a likely target IMO.
>
> Question: Is there anybody out there who would like to work with me on a
> description and implementation of what the fully-featured .ISO should like
> alike? This would be Intel-only as a start, leaving everything for the RPi
> to Raspbian for the time being.
>
> There are a couple of Python libraries still missing on Debian to get
> QtPyVCP installed. This would likely be something for me to address.
>
> Best,
> Steffem
>
>
>
> ___
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Re: [Emc-developers] Eye candy is important - Titan got a new German friend - want that reaction for a LinuxCNC controller

[Jérémie Tarot]

Le jeu. 1 déc. 2022 à 16:47, Small Shop Concepts  a
écrit :

> I think it would be great if QtPyVCP were included in Linuxcnc. I'm not
> sure how you mean it would undermine qtvcp?  Isn't Linuxcnc stronger with
> more options for users?


Further, IIRC @cmorley, you're our UI API uniformization champion, aren't
you ? And I support that 1000% !
What could be better on this front than to bring the other modern VCP
toolkit to the table ? And another awesome chap like @TurBoss !


> I know JT also has been working on a config builder that is
> working really nicely and has added some features making setting up Mesa
> very simple and streamlined.
>

Absolutely ! I already told JT and said here that MesaCT repository surely
deserves to join the LinuxCNC organization 

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Re: [Emc-developers] Eye candy is important - Titan got a new German friend - want that reaction for a LinuxCNC controller

[Jérémie Tarot]

Le jeu. 1 déc. 2022 à 11:06, Phill  a écrit :

>
> Actually on second thought some users would use QtVCP, for example
> embedding CamView into an Axis or Gmoccapy tab.


Then, they're not just users anymore !
A CNC _user_ starts the machine, makes chips, stops the machine...
sometimes have a cold beer in the process ;)
As soon as lift the hood, then you become at least an integrator, if not a
developer.
This may seem rhetorical, but this needs to be insisted upon if we want to
address the needs and wishes of the thre types

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Re: [Emc-developers] Eye candy is important - Titan got a new German friend - want that reaction for a LinuxCNC controller

[Small Shop Concepts]

I think it would be great if QtPyVCP were included in Linuxcnc. I'm not
sure how you mean it would undermine qtvcp?  Isn't Linuxcnc stronger with
more options for users? As the developer of Probe Basic and speaking on
behalf of the thousands of Probe Basic users out there I am sure they would
also like to see an easier method of installation.  I know JT has many UI's
that are used and Joco and Rod have been working on a really awesome plasma
ui and Turboss is constantly pushing the envelope with new functionality
and features for non standard machine types.  Making these more accessible
for users would only increase the possibility of attracting new users and
open up development pathways for future growth and additions of UI
development.  I know JT also has been working on a config builder that is
working really nicely and has added some features making setting up Mesa
very simple and streamlined.  I think this would be a very good things for
Linuxcnc, and i say that with out Bias as I think qtvcp is great also and
also adds strength to Linuxcnc's future growth path.  Those are my thoughts
at elast!

Chris

On Tue, Nov 29, 2022 at 1:11 PM Chris Morley 
wrote:

> Are you discussing an official linuxcnc release of ISOs? Are you
> suggesting including qtpyvcp on the ISO? In my mind that undermines qtvcp
> which is actually part of linuxcnc.
> Full disclosure, qtvcp is project I started so I am slightly biased.
>
> Chris
>
>
>
> Sent from my Galaxy
>
>
>
>  Original message 
> From: Steffen Möller 
> Date: 2022-11-29 8:53 a.m. (GMT-08:00)
> To: LinuxCNC Dev Mailing List 
> Subject: [Emc-developers] Eye candy is important - Titan got a new German
> friend - want that reaction for a LinuxCNC controller
>
> Hello,
>
> No need to watch this, really. Titan has a nice Heller machine and passes
> the Sinumeric control
> https://youtu.be/zToKZtqQMIo?t=354
> with some excitement. I actually find LinuxCNC even nicer, especially for
> what I saw from https://www.qtpyvcp.com/ .
>
> When we yesterday had this OpenMike session again, we had felt like there
> should be four USB sticks prepared:
>   a) for two distros - Bullseye (Debian stable) and Bookworm (Debian
> testing, soon stable)
>   b) in two flavours - minimalistic and fully-featured (including FreeCAD
> and Inkscape to make a good impression on those who come from the other OS)
>
> Andy had some confidence (and I share that) that the generation of those
> .iso files per se is not difficult. It was not immediately clear where the
> generation of those .iso files should happen, but the builders maintained
> by Sebastian are a likely target IMO.
>
> Question: Is there anybody out there who would like to work with me on a
> description and implementation of what the fully-featured .ISO should like
> alike? This would be Intel-only as a start, leaving everything for the RPi
> to Raspbian for the time being.
>
> There are a couple of Python libraries still missing on Debian to get
> QtPyVCP installed. This would likely be something for me to address.
>
> Best,
> Steffem
>
>
>
> ___
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> Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers
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> ___
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Re: [Emc-developers] Eye candy is important - Titan got a newGerman friend - want that reaction for a LinuxCNC controller

[gene heskett]

On 12/1/22 04:25, Jérémie Tarot wrote:

Le jeu. 1 déc. 2022 à 01:32, Phill Carter  a
écrit :


Neither QtVCP nor QtPyVCP are GUIs, they are infrastructure for creating
GUIS.
I would think that most users will use neither, they will just use the
GUIs that have been developed.



Absolutely !
This is why I think that all *VCP and UI programming docs should be moved
to the PDF Developer manual.



I don't agree. The gui stuff is definitely user stuff.

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Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
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 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 



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Re: [Emc-developers] Eye candy is important - Titan got a new German friend - want that reaction for a LinuxCNC controller

[Phill]

 Original message From: Jérémie Tarot  
Date: 1/12/22  8:28 pm  (GMT+10:00) To: EMC developers 
 Subject: Re: [Emc-developers] Eye candy 
is important - Titan got a new German friend - want that reaction for a 
LinuxCNC controller Le jeu. 1 déc. 2022 à 01:32, Phill Carter 
 aécrit :> Neither QtVCP nor QtPyVCP are GUIs, they 
are infrastructure for creating> GUIS.> I would think that most users will use 
neither, they will just use the> GUIs that have been developed.Absolutely !This 
is why I think that all *VCP and UI programming docs should be movedto the PDF 
Developer manual.Actually on second thought some users would use QtVCP, for 
example embedding CamView into an Axis or Gmoccapy 
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Re: [Emc-developers] Eye candy is important - Titan got a new German friend - want that reaction for a LinuxCNC controller

[Jérémie Tarot]

Le mar. 29 nov. 2022 à 23:27, Feral Engineer  a
écrit :

> There's that one interface that's a blatant rip off of a siemens control
> that would be a great addition
>

... and, according to his last messages, he's at least planning to bring
much more than just the UI ! 
I really hope this guy will join the crew...

Maybe I'll just do a generic video and whoever wants to watch it, will
>

Maybe some kind of "What I like and would like in Synumerik 840d" video
could be used as a wishlist ?

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Re: [Emc-developers] Eye candy is important - Titan got a new German friend - want that reaction for a LinuxCNC controller

[Jérémie Tarot]

Le jeu. 1 déc. 2022 à 01:32, Phill Carter  a
écrit :

> Neither QtVCP nor QtPyVCP are GUIs, they are infrastructure for creating
> GUIS.
> I would think that most users will use neither, they will just use the
> GUIs that have been developed.


Absolutely !
This is why I think that all *VCP and UI programming docs should be moved
to the PDF Developer manual.

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Re: [Emc-developers] Eye candy is important - Titan got a new German friend - want that reaction for a LinuxCNC controller

[Jérémie Tarot]

Le jeu. 1 déc. 2022 à 00:31, Steffen Moeller  a
écrit :

>
> Am 30.11.2022 um 19:12 schrieb Chris Morley:
> > The difference is free cad doesn't compete with anything in linuxcnc.
> Qtpycp does. If they wanted to be included in linuxcnc, then they would
> have been part of the project. They made a choice.
> > Otherwise as I said you are undermining the hard work of the devs that
> are active in our project.
>
> I consider all our users to be somehow part of our project and am
> agnostic about the interface they are using. From how I see it, if
> PyQtVCP does something better than QtVCP then QtVCP gets some
> encouragement and ideas on how to improve and vice versa. Both GUIs
> should be as easy to install and use as possible.
>

Amen !
BTW, I still don't understand why the QtPyVCP repository isn't under the
LinuxCNC umbrella...

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Re: [Emc-developers] Eye candy is important - Titan got a new German friend - want that reaction for a LinuxCNC controller

[Phill Carter]

> On 1 Dec 2022, at 10:27 am, Steffen Moeller  wrote:
> 
> 
> Am 30.11.2022 um 19:12 schrieb Chris Morley:
>> The difference is free cad doesn't compete with anything in linuxcnc. Qtpycp 
>> does. If they wanted to be included in linuxcnc, then they would have been 
>> part of the project. They made a choice.
>> Otherwise as I said you are undermining the hard work of the devs that are 
>> active in our project.
> 
> I consider all our users to be somehow part of our project and am
> agnostic about the interface they are using. From how I see it, if
> PyQtVCP does something better than QtVCP then QtVCP gets some
> encouragement and ideas on how to improve and vice versa. Both GUIs
> should be as easy to install and use as possible.
Neither QtVCP nor QtPyVCP are GUIs, they are infrastructure for creating GUIS.
I would think that most users will use neither, they will just use the GUIs 
that have been developed.

> 
> Best,
> Steffen
> 
>> 
>> 
>>  Original message 
>> From: Steffen Moeller 
>> Date: 2022-11-30 9:35 a.m. (GMT-08:00)
>> To: emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net
>> Subject: Re: [Emc-developers] Eye candy is important - Titan got a new 
>> German friend - want that reaction for a LinuxCNC controller
>> 
>> 
>> Am 29.11.2022 um 19:06 schrieb Chris Morley:
>>> Are you discussing an official linuxcnc release of ISOs?
>> So I hope.
>>> Are you suggesting including qtpyvcp on the ISO?
>> There are four Python modules missing in Debian to do so, from what I
>> have yet understood. But I feel motivated to help out, just locally
>> packaged oyaml.
>>> In my mind that undermines qtvcp which is actually part of linuxcnc.
>>> Full disclosure, qtvcp is project I started so I am slightly biased.
>> My motivation is to bring the best of Open Source CNC on Linux together
>> to help myself and others. And from what I hear and see, this includes
>> PyQtVCP. You may have a point for the minimal version of that .iso, but
>> for the full featured one it should be in, also FreeCAD and inkscape.
>> 
>> Steffen
>> 
>>>  Original message 
>>> From: Steffen Möller 
>>> Date: 2022-11-29 8:53 a.m. (GMT-08:00)
>>> To: LinuxCNC Dev Mailing List 
>>> Subject: [Emc-developers] Eye candy is important - Titan got a new German 
>>> friend - want that reaction for a LinuxCNC controller
>>> 
>>> Hello,
>>> 
>>> No need to watch this, really. Titan has a nice Heller machine and passes 
>>> the Sinumeric control
>>> https://youtu.be/zToKZtqQMIo?t=354
>>> with some excitement. I actually find LinuxCNC even nicer, especially for 
>>> what I saw from https://www.qtpyvcp.com/ .
>>> 
>>> When we yesterday had this OpenMike session again, we had felt like there 
>>> should be four USB sticks prepared:
>>>a) for two distros - Bullseye (Debian stable) and Bookworm (Debian 
>>> testing, soon stable)
>>>b) in two flavours - minimalistic and fully-featured (including FreeCAD 
>>> and Inkscape to make a good impression on those who come from the other OS)
>>> 
>>> Andy had some confidence (and I share that) that the generation of those 
>>> .iso files per se is not difficult. It was not immediately clear where the 
>>> generation of those .iso files should happen, but the builders maintained 
>>> by Sebastian are a likely target IMO.
>>> 
>>> Question: Is there anybody out there who would like to work with me on a 
>>> description and implementation of what the fully-featured .ISO should like 
>>> alike? This would be Intel-only as a start, leaving everything for the RPi 
>>> to Raspbian for the time being.
>>> 
>>> There are a couple of Python libraries still missing on Debian to get 
>>> QtPyVCP installed. This would likely be something for me to address.
>>> 
>>> Best,
>>> Steffem
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ___
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>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers
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>>> ___
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>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers
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> 
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Re: [Emc-developers] Eye candy is important - Titan got a new German friend - want that reaction for a LinuxCNC controller

[Steffen Moeller]

Am 30.11.2022 um 19:12 schrieb Chris Morley:

The difference is free cad doesn't compete with anything in linuxcnc. Qtpycp 
does. If they wanted to be included in linuxcnc, then they would have been part 
of the project. They made a choice.
Otherwise as I said you are undermining the hard work of the devs that are 
active in our project.


I consider all our users to be somehow part of our project and am
agnostic about the interface they are using. From how I see it, if
PyQtVCP does something better than QtVCP then QtVCP gets some
encouragement and ideas on how to improve and vice versa. Both GUIs
should be as easy to install and use as possible.

Best,
Steffen




 Original message 
From: Steffen Moeller 
Date: 2022-11-30 9:35 a.m. (GMT-08:00)
To: emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Emc-developers] Eye candy is important - Titan got a new German 
friend - want that reaction for a LinuxCNC controller


Am 29.11.2022 um 19:06 schrieb Chris Morley:

Are you discussing an official linuxcnc release of ISOs?

So I hope.

Are you suggesting including qtpyvcp on the ISO?

There are four Python modules missing in Debian to do so, from what I
have yet understood. But I feel motivated to help out, just locally
packaged oyaml.

In my mind that undermines qtvcp which is actually part of linuxcnc.
Full disclosure, qtvcp is project I started so I am slightly biased.

My motivation is to bring the best of Open Source CNC on Linux together
to help myself and others. And from what I hear and see, this includes
PyQtVCP. You may have a point for the minimal version of that .iso, but
for the full featured one it should be in, also FreeCAD and inkscape.

Steffen


 Original message 
From: Steffen Möller 
Date: 2022-11-29 8:53 a.m. (GMT-08:00)
To: LinuxCNC Dev Mailing List 
Subject: [Emc-developers] Eye candy is important - Titan got a new German 
friend - want that reaction for a LinuxCNC controller

Hello,

No need to watch this, really. Titan has a nice Heller machine and passes the 
Sinumeric control
https://youtu.be/zToKZtqQMIo?t=354
with some excitement. I actually find LinuxCNC even nicer, especially for what 
I saw from https://www.qtpyvcp.com/ .

When we yesterday had this OpenMike session again, we had felt like there 
should be four USB sticks prepared:
a) for two distros - Bullseye (Debian stable) and Bookworm (Debian testing, 
soon stable)
b) in two flavours - minimalistic and fully-featured (including FreeCAD and 
Inkscape to make a good impression on those who come from the other OS)

Andy had some confidence (and I share that) that the generation of those .iso 
files per se is not difficult. It was not immediately clear where the 
generation of those .iso files should happen, but the builders maintained by 
Sebastian are a likely target IMO.

Question: Is there anybody out there who would like to work with me on a 
description and implementation of what the fully-featured .ISO should like 
alike? This would be Intel-only as a start, leaving everything for the RPi to 
Raspbian for the time being.

There are a couple of Python libraries still missing on Debian to get QtPyVCP 
installed. This would likely be something for me to address.

Best,
Steffem



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Re: [Emc-developers] Eye candy is important - Titan got a new German friend - want that reaction for a LinuxCNC controller

[Steffen Moeller]

Am 30.11.2022 um 19:58 schrieb Rod Webster:

It lowers the bar for everyone. Installing a real time kernel and all the
dependencies might keep some people from just trying it.
And it allows running it as a live system without even needing to install
something.

@hans, have you ever tried installing from the bookworm repositories?
All of the dependencies including PREEMPT_RT are part of the package so
they are installed
automatically when you install linuxcnc-uspace! There is nothing else the
user requires!

I would hazard a guess you could download the debian ISO, install it and
linuxcnc-uspace
in the same time as it would take to download and install our own ISO
purely because of
the superior bandwidth and global mirrors in the Debian environment.

It's really disappointing to see people in this group who do not understand
our Debian install process
and the benefits it brings.


But nobody takes that away, these Debian packages just get some extra
use and hopefully make more people happy than the packages alone. There
are times that I use something like http://www.knoppix.org/ and love it.
And I am a Debian Developer.

No worries, please. There is no competition.

Best,
Steffen



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Re: [Emc-developers] Eye candy is important - Titan got a new German friend - want that reaction for a LinuxCNC controller

[Rod Webster]

>It lowers the bar for everyone. Installing a real time kernel and all the
>dependencies might keep some people from just trying it.
>And it allows running it as a live system without even needing to install
>something.

@hans, have you ever tried installing from the bookworm repositories?
All of the dependencies including PREEMPT_RT are part of the package so
they are installed
automatically when you install linuxcnc-uspace! There is nothing else the
user requires!

I would hazard a guess you could download the debian ISO, install it and
linuxcnc-uspace
in the same time as it would take to download and install our own ISO
purely because of
the superior bandwidth and global mirrors in the Debian environment.

It's really disappointing to see people in this group who do not understand
our Debian install process
and the benefits it brings.



Rod Webster
*1300 896 832*
+61 435 765 611
Vehicle Modifications Network
www.vehiclemods.net.au


On Thu, 1 Dec 2022 at 04:13, Chris Morley 
wrote:

> The difference is free cad doesn't compete with anything in linuxcnc.
> Qtpycp does. If they wanted to be included in linuxcnc, then they would
> have been part of the project. They made a choice.
> Otherwise as I said you are undermining the hard work of the devs that are
> active in our project.
>
> Chris
>
> Sent from my Galaxy
>
>
>
>  Original message 
> From: Steffen Moeller 
> Date: 2022-11-30 9:35 a.m. (GMT-08:00)
> To: emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Emc-developers] Eye candy is important - Titan got a new
> German friend - want that reaction for a LinuxCNC controller
>
>
> Am 29.11.2022 um 19:06 schrieb Chris Morley:
> > Are you discussing an official linuxcnc release of ISOs?
> So I hope.
> > Are you suggesting including qtpyvcp on the ISO?
> There are four Python modules missing in Debian to do so, from what I
> have yet understood. But I feel motivated to help out, just locally
> packaged oyaml.
> > In my mind that undermines qtvcp which is actually part of linuxcnc.
> > Full disclosure, qtvcp is project I started so I am slightly biased.
>
> My motivation is to bring the best of Open Source CNC on Linux together
> to help myself and others. And from what I hear and see, this includes
> PyQtVCP. You may have a point for the minimal version of that .iso, but
> for the full featured one it should be in, also FreeCAD and inkscape.
>
> Steffen
>
> >  Original message --------
> > From: Steffen Möller 
> > Date: 2022-11-29 8:53 a.m. (GMT-08:00)
> > To: LinuxCNC Dev Mailing List 
> > Subject: [Emc-developers] Eye candy is important - Titan got a new
> German friend - want that reaction for a LinuxCNC controller
> >
> > Hello,
> >
> > No need to watch this, really. Titan has a nice Heller machine and
> passes the Sinumeric control
> > https://youtu.be/zToKZtqQMIo?t=354
> > with some excitement. I actually find LinuxCNC even nicer, especially
> for what I saw from https://www.qtpyvcp.com/ .
> >
> > When we yesterday had this OpenMike session again, we had felt like
> there should be four USB sticks prepared:
> >a) for two distros - Bullseye (Debian stable) and Bookworm (Debian
> testing, soon stable)
> >b) in two flavours - minimalistic and fully-featured (including
> FreeCAD and Inkscape to make a good impression on those who come from the
> other OS)
> >
> > Andy had some confidence (and I share that) that the generation of those
> .iso files per se is not difficult. It was not immediately clear where the
> generation of those .iso files should happen, but the builders maintained
> by Sebastian are a likely target IMO.
> >
> > Question: Is there anybody out there who would like to work with me on a
> description and implementation of what the fully-featured .ISO should like
> alike? This would be Intel-only as a start, leaving everything for the RPi
> to Raspbian for the time being.
> >
> > There are a couple of Python libraries still missing on Debian to get
> QtPyVCP installed. This would likely be something for me to address.
> >
> > Best,
> > Steffem
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-developers mailing list
> > Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers
> >
> > ___
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> > Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers
>
>
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Re: [Emc-developers] Eye candy is important - Titan got a new German friend - want that reaction for a LinuxCNC controller

[Chris Morley]

The difference is free cad doesn't compete with anything in linuxcnc. Qtpycp 
does. If they wanted to be included in linuxcnc, then they would have been part 
of the project. They made a choice.
Otherwise as I said you are undermining the hard work of the devs that are 
active in our project.

Chris

Sent from my Galaxy



 Original message 
From: Steffen Moeller 
Date: 2022-11-30 9:35 a.m. (GMT-08:00)
To: emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Emc-developers] Eye candy is important - Titan got a new German 
friend - want that reaction for a LinuxCNC controller


Am 29.11.2022 um 19:06 schrieb Chris Morley:
> Are you discussing an official linuxcnc release of ISOs?
So I hope.
> Are you suggesting including qtpyvcp on the ISO?
There are four Python modules missing in Debian to do so, from what I
have yet understood. But I feel motivated to help out, just locally
packaged oyaml.
> In my mind that undermines qtvcp which is actually part of linuxcnc.
> Full disclosure, qtvcp is project I started so I am slightly biased.

My motivation is to bring the best of Open Source CNC on Linux together
to help myself and others. And from what I hear and see, this includes
PyQtVCP. You may have a point for the minimal version of that .iso, but
for the full featured one it should be in, also FreeCAD and inkscape.

Steffen

>  Original message 
> From: Steffen Möller 
> Date: 2022-11-29 8:53 a.m. (GMT-08:00)
> To: LinuxCNC Dev Mailing List 
> Subject: [Emc-developers] Eye candy is important - Titan got a new German 
> friend - want that reaction for a LinuxCNC controller
>
> Hello,
>
> No need to watch this, really. Titan has a nice Heller machine and passes the 
> Sinumeric control
> https://youtu.be/zToKZtqQMIo?t=354
> with some excitement. I actually find LinuxCNC even nicer, especially for 
> what I saw from https://www.qtpyvcp.com/ .
>
> When we yesterday had this OpenMike session again, we had felt like there 
> should be four USB sticks prepared:
>a) for two distros - Bullseye (Debian stable) and Bookworm (Debian 
> testing, soon stable)
>b) in two flavours - minimalistic and fully-featured (including FreeCAD 
> and Inkscape to make a good impression on those who come from the other OS)
>
> Andy had some confidence (and I share that) that the generation of those .iso 
> files per se is not difficult. It was not immediately clear where the 
> generation of those .iso files should happen, but the builders maintained by 
> Sebastian are a likely target IMO.
>
> Question: Is there anybody out there who would like to work with me on a 
> description and implementation of what the fully-featured .ISO should like 
> alike? This would be Intel-only as a start, leaving everything for the RPi to 
> Raspbian for the time being.
>
> There are a couple of Python libraries still missing on Debian to get QtPyVCP 
> installed. This would likely be something for me to address.
>
> Best,
> Steffem
>
>
>
> ___
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Re: [Emc-developers] Eye candy is important - Titan got a new German friend - want that reaction for a LinuxCNC controller

[Steffen Moeller]

Am 29.11.2022 um 19:06 schrieb Chris Morley:

Are you discussing an official linuxcnc release of ISOs?

So I hope.

Are you suggesting including qtpyvcp on the ISO?

There are four Python modules missing in Debian to do so, from what I
have yet understood. But I feel motivated to help out, just locally
packaged oyaml.

In my mind that undermines qtvcp which is actually part of linuxcnc.
Full disclosure, qtvcp is project I started so I am slightly biased.


My motivation is to bring the best of Open Source CNC on Linux together
to help myself and others. And from what I hear and see, this includes
PyQtVCP. You may have a point for the minimal version of that .iso, but
for the full featured one it should be in, also FreeCAD and inkscape.

Steffen


 Original message 
From: Steffen Möller 
Date: 2022-11-29 8:53 a.m. (GMT-08:00)
To: LinuxCNC Dev Mailing List 
Subject: [Emc-developers] Eye candy is important - Titan got a new German 
friend - want that reaction for a LinuxCNC controller

Hello,

No need to watch this, really. Titan has a nice Heller machine and passes the 
Sinumeric control
https://youtu.be/zToKZtqQMIo?t=354
with some excitement. I actually find LinuxCNC even nicer, especially for what 
I saw from https://www.qtpyvcp.com/ .

When we yesterday had this OpenMike session again, we had felt like there 
should be four USB sticks prepared:
   a) for two distros - Bullseye (Debian stable) and Bookworm (Debian testing, 
soon stable)
   b) in two flavours - minimalistic and fully-featured (including FreeCAD and 
Inkscape to make a good impression on those who come from the other OS)

Andy had some confidence (and I share that) that the generation of those .iso 
files per se is not difficult. It was not immediately clear where the 
generation of those .iso files should happen, but the builders maintained by 
Sebastian are a likely target IMO.

Question: Is there anybody out there who would like to work with me on a 
description and implementation of what the fully-featured .ISO should like 
alike? This would be Intel-only as a start, leaving everything for the RPi to 
Raspbian for the time being.

There are a couple of Python libraries still missing on Debian to get QtPyVCP 
installed. This would likely be something for me to address.

Best,
Steffem



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Re: [Emc-developers] Eye candy is important - Titan got a new German friend - want that reaction for a LinuxCNC controller

[Hans Unzner]

Am Di., 29. Nov. 2022 um 23:15 Uhr schrieb andy pugh :

> On Tue, 29 Nov 2022 at 20:59, Rod Webster  wrote:
>
> Why would we bother hosting our own ISO on slow servers and put our limited
> > resources into building and maintaining said ISO's when the new paradigm
> is
> > already with us right now?
> >
>
> It's to lower the bar for Windows users, trying to make it as simple as
> possible.
>
>
It lowers the bar for everyone. Installing a real time kernel and all the
dependencies might keep some people from just trying it.
And it allows running it as a live system without even needing to install
something.

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Re: [Emc-developers] Eye candy is important - Titan got a new German friend - want that reaction for a LinuxCNC controller

[Leonardo Marsaglia]

>
> If you want eye candy, the Datron UI is rather well done:
> https://youtu.be/ZgqCY3gUHcM


That probing feature looks really nice. I wonder if they are using image
recognition to snap the lines correctly so If I draw the lines to probe way
out of the real part corner the system could identify that mistake and warn
the user.


El mar, 29 nov 2022 a las 16:24, andy pugh () escribió:

> On Tue, 29 Nov 2022 at 16:53, Steffen Möller 
> wrote:
>
> > Hello,
> >
> > No need to watch this, really. Titan has a nice Heller machine and passes
> > the Sinumeric control
> > https://youtu.be/zToKZtqQMIo?t=354
> > with some excitement. I actually find LinuxCNC even nicer, especially for
> > what I saw from https://www.qtpyvcp.com/ .
>
>
> If you want eye candy, the Datron UI is rather well done:
> https://youtu.be/ZgqCY3gUHcM
>
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed
> for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics."
> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
>
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Re: [Emc-developers] Eye candy is important - Titan got a new German friend - want that reaction for a LinuxCNC controller

[Steffen Möller]

> Gesendet: Dienstag, 29. November 2022 um 22:15 Uhr
> Von: "Phill Carter" 
> An: "linuxcnc-developers" 
> Betreff: Re: [Emc-developers] Eye candy is important - Titan got a new German 
> friend - want that reaction for a LinuxCNC controller
>
>
>
> > On 30 Nov 2022, at 7:54 am, Rod Webster  wrote:
> >
> > @steffen, there is a script to install qtpyvcp dependencies in:
> >
> > /usr/lib/python3/dist-packages/qtvcp/designer/install_script
> >
> > Its documented in QTplasmac, not sure if its mentioned elsewhere
> > http://linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/plasma/qtplasmac.html#qt-dependency
>
> The above script is for QtVCP dependencies.

Ah - many thanks!

I need to check and make sure that we have everything in Debian, such that this 
script (or other magic) is no longer needed.

Best,
Steffen


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Re: [Emc-developers] Eye candy is important - Titan got a new German friend - want that reaction for a LinuxCNC controller

[Steffen Möller]

> Gesendet: Dienstag, 29. November 2022 um 20:19 Uhr
> Von: "andy pugh" 
> An: "EMC developers" 
> Betreff: Re: [Emc-developers] Eye candy is important - Titan got a new German 
> friend - want that reaction for a LinuxCNC controller
>
> On Tue, 29 Nov 2022 at 16:53, Steffen Möller  wrote:
> 
> > Hello,
> >
> > No need to watch this, really. Titan has a nice Heller machine and passes
> > the Sinumeric control
> > https://youtu.be/zToKZtqQMIo?t=354
> > with some excitement. I actually find LinuxCNC even nicer, especially for
> > what I saw from https://www.qtpyvcp.com/ .
> 
> 
> If you want eye candy, the Datron UI is rather well done:
> https://youtu.be/ZgqCY3gUHcM

I had seen that video, and indeed, I liked it (and still like it). But they do 
not run LinuxCNC underneath, do they? Still, as an idea for how to develop - 
yes!!!

Thank you!
Steffen


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Re: [Emc-developers] Eye candy is important - Titan got a new German friend - want that reaction for a LinuxCNC controller

[Steffen Möller]

I will happily watch it. Titan has (had?) some Tormach machines, so he likely 
already has (had?) LinuxCNC in house. With his zoo of machines, and his 
interest in education and "doing stuff here" (which is "there" for me), there 
should be a nice story that has not yet been told too often that you can 
implement with LinuxCNC in an easier way than with current closed-source 
controllers. That should make an interesting LinuxCNC-promoting video for him 
(and us).

Rough ideas:
 * cutting gears with a CNC at weird places that would be difficult to reach 
with traditional gear cutters
 * integrating a camera into a machine that was bought without one
 * integrating a robot/pneumatics/... into a machine that was bought without
 * a portable CNC for repairs in the field (like moon, mars or some ship on our 
own planet) that has an integrated temperature sensor/camera to compensate for 
variations in temperature
 * using the same controller for something completely different, like 
distinguishing your cat from the neighbour's cat to decide if the cat door 
should open.

Thank you!

Steffen

> Gesendet: Dienstag, 29. November 2022 um 23:23 Uhr
> Von: "Feral Engineer" 
> An: "EMC developers" 
> Betreff: Re: [Emc-developers] Eye candy is important - Titan got a new German 
> friend - want that reaction for a LinuxCNC controller
>
> There's that one interface that's a blatant rip off of a siemens control
> that would be a great addition
> 
> Maybe I'll just do a generic video and whoever wants to watch it, will
> 
> Phil T.
> The Feral Engineer
> 
> Check out my LinuxCNC tutorials, machine builds and other antics at
> www.youtube.com/c/theferalengineer
> 
> Help support my channel efforts and coffee addiction:
> www.patreon.com/theferalengineer
> 
> Order one of the coolest label makers on the market at
> http://labelworks.epson.com, use coupon code "theferalengineer" and receive
> 20% off of your order 
> 
> On Tue, Nov 29, 2022, 4:57 PM Eric Keller  wrote:
> 
> > I would watch your demonstration of the Siemens control and I'm
> > anxiously awaiting your implementation of a similar interface on
> > linuxcnc.  As long as the demonstration doesn't involve any screaming.
> > Eric Keller
> > Boalsburg, Pennsylvania
> >
> > On Tue, Nov 29, 2022 at 1:24 PM Feral Engineer
> >  wrote:
> > >
> > > That dude is a goofball and that version of Sinumerik looks like 20
> > pounds
> > > of crap in a 10 pound bag. They put away too much on the screen and it
> > > blocks most of the hmi. I thought we used up a lot of real estate on our
> > > screens (DMG Mori), these Heller machines have got us beat...
> > >
> > > Seriously... I'll give a presentation on the siemens control to anyone
> > > interested in seeing it. Why do I always feel like I'm screaming into a
> > > black hole here?
> > >
> > > Phil T.
> > > The Feral Engineer
> > >
> > > Check out my LinuxCNC tutorials, machine builds and other antics at
> > > www.youtube.com/c/theferalengineer
> > >
> > > Help support my channel efforts and coffee addiction:
> > > www.patreon.com/theferalengineer
> > >
> > > Order one of the coolest label makers on the market at
> > > http://labelworks.epson.com, use coupon code "theferalengineer" and
> > receive
> > > 20% off of your order 
> > >
> > > On Tue, Nov 29, 2022, 11:53 AM Steffen Möller 
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hello,
> > > >
> > > > No need to watch this, really. Titan has a nice Heller machine and
> > passes
> > > > the Sinumeric control
> > > > https://youtu.be/zToKZtqQMIo?t=354
> > > > with some excitement. I actually find LinuxCNC even nicer, especially
> > for
> > > > what I saw from https://www.qtpyvcp.com/ .
> > > >
> > > > When we yesterday had this OpenMike session again, we had felt like
> > there
> > > > should be four USB sticks prepared:
> > > >   a) for two distros - Bullseye (Debian stable) and Bookworm (Debian
> > > > testing, soon stable)
> > > >   b) in two flavours - minimalistic and fully-featured (including
> > FreeCAD
> > > > and Inkscape to make a good impression on those who come from the
> > other OS)
> > > >
> > > > Andy had some confidence (and I share that) that the generation of
> > those
> > > > .iso files per se is not difficult. It was not immediately clear where
> > the
> > > > generation of those .iso files sh

Re: [Emc-developers] Eye candy is important - Titan got a new German friend - want that reaction for a LinuxCNC controller

[Feral Engineer]

There's that one interface that's a blatant rip off of a siemens control
that would be a great addition

Maybe I'll just do a generic video and whoever wants to watch it, will

Phil T.
The Feral Engineer

Check out my LinuxCNC tutorials, machine builds and other antics at
www.youtube.com/c/theferalengineer

Help support my channel efforts and coffee addiction:
www.patreon.com/theferalengineer

Order one of the coolest label makers on the market at
http://labelworks.epson.com, use coupon code "theferalengineer" and receive
20% off of your order 

On Tue, Nov 29, 2022, 4:57 PM Eric Keller  wrote:

> I would watch your demonstration of the Siemens control and I'm
> anxiously awaiting your implementation of a similar interface on
> linuxcnc.  As long as the demonstration doesn't involve any screaming.
> Eric Keller
> Boalsburg, Pennsylvania
>
> On Tue, Nov 29, 2022 at 1:24 PM Feral Engineer
>  wrote:
> >
> > That dude is a goofball and that version of Sinumerik looks like 20
> pounds
> > of crap in a 10 pound bag. They put away too much on the screen and it
> > blocks most of the hmi. I thought we used up a lot of real estate on our
> > screens (DMG Mori), these Heller machines have got us beat...
> >
> > Seriously... I'll give a presentation on the siemens control to anyone
> > interested in seeing it. Why do I always feel like I'm screaming into a
> > black hole here?
> >
> > Phil T.
> > The Feral Engineer
> >
> > Check out my LinuxCNC tutorials, machine builds and other antics at
> > www.youtube.com/c/theferalengineer
> >
> > Help support my channel efforts and coffee addiction:
> > www.patreon.com/theferalengineer
> >
> > Order one of the coolest label makers on the market at
> > http://labelworks.epson.com, use coupon code "theferalengineer" and
> receive
> > 20% off of your order 
> >
> > On Tue, Nov 29, 2022, 11:53 AM Steffen Möller 
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Hello,
> > >
> > > No need to watch this, really. Titan has a nice Heller machine and
> passes
> > > the Sinumeric control
> > > https://youtu.be/zToKZtqQMIo?t=354
> > > with some excitement. I actually find LinuxCNC even nicer, especially
> for
> > > what I saw from https://www.qtpyvcp.com/ .
> > >
> > > When we yesterday had this OpenMike session again, we had felt like
> there
> > > should be four USB sticks prepared:
> > >   a) for two distros - Bullseye (Debian stable) and Bookworm (Debian
> > > testing, soon stable)
> > >   b) in two flavours - minimalistic and fully-featured (including
> FreeCAD
> > > and Inkscape to make a good impression on those who come from the
> other OS)
> > >
> > > Andy had some confidence (and I share that) that the generation of
> those
> > > .iso files per se is not difficult. It was not immediately clear where
> the
> > > generation of those .iso files should happen, but the builders
> maintained
> > > by Sebastian are a likely target IMO.
> > >
> > > Question: Is there anybody out there who would like to work with me on
> a
> > > description and implementation of what the fully-featured .ISO should
> like
> > > alike? This would be Intel-only as a start, leaving everything for the
> RPi
> > > to Raspbian for the time being.
> > >
> > > There are a couple of Python libraries still missing on Debian to get
> > > QtPyVCP installed. This would likely be something for me to address.
> > >
> > > Best,
> > > Steffem
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ___
> > > Emc-developers mailing list
> > > Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers
> > >
> >
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>
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Re: [Emc-developers] Eye candy is important - Titan got a new German friend - want that reaction for a LinuxCNC controller

[andy pugh]

On Tue, 29 Nov 2022 at 20:59, Rod Webster  wrote:

Why would we bother hosting our own ISO on slow servers and put our limited
> resources into building and maintaining said ISO's when the new paradigm is
> already with us right now?
>

It's to lower the bar for Windows users, trying to make it as simple as
possible.

They need to install an ISO anyway, it might as well be ours for a one-step
process.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed
for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912

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Re: [Emc-developers] Eye candy is important - Titan got a new German friend - want that reaction for a LinuxCNC controller

[Eric Keller]

I would watch your demonstration of the Siemens control and I'm
anxiously awaiting your implementation of a similar interface on
linuxcnc.  As long as the demonstration doesn't involve any screaming.
Eric Keller
Boalsburg, Pennsylvania

On Tue, Nov 29, 2022 at 1:24 PM Feral Engineer
 wrote:
>
> That dude is a goofball and that version of Sinumerik looks like 20 pounds
> of crap in a 10 pound bag. They put away too much on the screen and it
> blocks most of the hmi. I thought we used up a lot of real estate on our
> screens (DMG Mori), these Heller machines have got us beat...
>
> Seriously... I'll give a presentation on the siemens control to anyone
> interested in seeing it. Why do I always feel like I'm screaming into a
> black hole here?
>
> Phil T.
> The Feral Engineer
>
> Check out my LinuxCNC tutorials, machine builds and other antics at
> www.youtube.com/c/theferalengineer
>
> Help support my channel efforts and coffee addiction:
> www.patreon.com/theferalengineer
>
> Order one of the coolest label makers on the market at
> http://labelworks.epson.com, use coupon code "theferalengineer" and receive
> 20% off of your order 
>
> On Tue, Nov 29, 2022, 11:53 AM Steffen Möller 
> wrote:
>
> > Hello,
> >
> > No need to watch this, really. Titan has a nice Heller machine and passes
> > the Sinumeric control
> > https://youtu.be/zToKZtqQMIo?t=354
> > with some excitement. I actually find LinuxCNC even nicer, especially for
> > what I saw from https://www.qtpyvcp.com/ .
> >
> > When we yesterday had this OpenMike session again, we had felt like there
> > should be four USB sticks prepared:
> >   a) for two distros - Bullseye (Debian stable) and Bookworm (Debian
> > testing, soon stable)
> >   b) in two flavours - minimalistic and fully-featured (including FreeCAD
> > and Inkscape to make a good impression on those who come from the other OS)
> >
> > Andy had some confidence (and I share that) that the generation of those
> > .iso files per se is not difficult. It was not immediately clear where the
> > generation of those .iso files should happen, but the builders maintained
> > by Sebastian are a likely target IMO.
> >
> > Question: Is there anybody out there who would like to work with me on a
> > description and implementation of what the fully-featured .ISO should like
> > alike? This would be Intel-only as a start, leaving everything for the RPi
> > to Raspbian for the time being.
> >
> > There are a couple of Python libraries still missing on Debian to get
> > QtPyVCP installed. This would likely be something for me to address.
> >
> > Best,
> > Steffem
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-developers mailing list
> > Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers
> >
>
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Re: [Emc-developers] Eye candy is important - Titan got a new German friend - want that reaction for a LinuxCNC controller

[Phill Carter]

> On 30 Nov 2022, at 7:54 am, Rod Webster  wrote:
> 
> @steffen, there is a script to install qtpyvcp dependencies in:
> 
> /usr/lib/python3/dist-packages/qtvcp/designer/install_script
> 
> Its documented in QTplasmac, not sure if its mentioned elsewhere
> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/plasma/qtplasmac.html#qt-dependency

The above script is for QtVCP dependencies.

> 
> Rod Webster
> *1300 896 832*
> +61 435 765 611
> Vehicle Modifications Network
> www.vehiclemods.net.au
> 
> 
> On Wed, 30 Nov 2022 at 05:21, andy pugh  wrote:
> 
>> On Tue, 29 Nov 2022 at 16:53, Steffen Möller 
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> Hello,
>>> 
>>> No need to watch this, really. Titan has a nice Heller machine and passes
>>> the Sinumeric control
>>> https://youtu.be/zToKZtqQMIo?t=354
>>> with some excitement. I actually find LinuxCNC even nicer, especially for
>>> what I saw from https://www.qtpyvcp.com/ .
>> 
>> 
>> If you want eye candy, the Datron UI is rather well done:
>> https://youtu.be/ZgqCY3gUHcM
>> 
>> --
>> atp
>> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed
>> for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics."
>> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
>> 
>> ___
>> Emc-developers mailing list
>> Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers
>> 
> 
> ___
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Re: [Emc-developers] Eye candy is important - Titan got a new German friend - want that reaction for a LinuxCNC controller

[Rod Webster]

Hey guys, in case you have not noticed, there is a new paradigm for
software distribution. It's called Debian Packaging!
Sometimes I think I must be the only idiot out there installing linuxcnc
from bookworm fairly regularly with:
sudo apt-get install linuxcnc-uspace
I for one will never bother with an ISO once Bookworm is released. Come to
think of it, I've never used a Linuxcnc ISO since the migration to Python 3
broke everything I touched!

Why would we bother hosting our own ISO on slow servers and put our limited
resources into building and maintaining said ISO's when the new paradigm is
already with us right now?
Why should we bother including other programs with  linuxcnc distribution?
This is just a distraction.

Wouldn't a better approach be to add a nice little window of additional CNC
resources in the CNC menu that lists third party programs available as
Debian Packages (freecad is) and call a script to install them? The proviso
would be the third party projects need to be in the Debian repos.

Anyway, this is all a distraction until such times you have a buildbot that
is at least generating Debian packages. Bullseye might be nice to have an
ISO for but we've done without for over 12 months now..

@steffen, there is a script to install qtpyvcp dependencies in:

/usr/lib/python3/dist-packages/qtvcp/designer/install_script

Its documented in QTplasmac, not sure if its mentioned elsewhere
http://linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/plasma/qtplasmac.html#qt-dependency

Rod Webster
*1300 896 832*
+61 435 765 611
Vehicle Modifications Network
www.vehiclemods.net.au


On Wed, 30 Nov 2022 at 05:21, andy pugh  wrote:

> On Tue, 29 Nov 2022 at 16:53, Steffen Möller 
> wrote:
>
> > Hello,
> >
> > No need to watch this, really. Titan has a nice Heller machine and passes
> > the Sinumeric control
> > https://youtu.be/zToKZtqQMIo?t=354
> > with some excitement. I actually find LinuxCNC even nicer, especially for
> > what I saw from https://www.qtpyvcp.com/ .
>
>
> If you want eye candy, the Datron UI is rather well done:
> https://youtu.be/ZgqCY3gUHcM
>
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed
> for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics."
> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
>
> ___
> Emc-developers mailing list
> Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers
>

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Re: [Emc-developers] Eye candy is important - Titan got a new German friend - want that reaction for a LinuxCNC controller

[andy pugh]

On Tue, 29 Nov 2022 at 16:53, Steffen Möller  wrote:

> Hello,
>
> No need to watch this, really. Titan has a nice Heller machine and passes
> the Sinumeric control
> https://youtu.be/zToKZtqQMIo?t=354
> with some excitement. I actually find LinuxCNC even nicer, especially for
> what I saw from https://www.qtpyvcp.com/ .


If you want eye candy, the Datron UI is rather well done:
https://youtu.be/ZgqCY3gUHcM

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed
for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912

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Re: [Emc-developers] Eye candy is important - Titan got a new German friend - want that reaction for a LinuxCNC controller

[Feral Engineer]

That dude is a goofball and that version of Sinumerik looks like 20 pounds
of crap in a 10 pound bag. They put away too much on the screen and it
blocks most of the hmi. I thought we used up a lot of real estate on our
screens (DMG Mori), these Heller machines have got us beat...

Seriously... I'll give a presentation on the siemens control to anyone
interested in seeing it. Why do I always feel like I'm screaming into a
black hole here?

Phil T.
The Feral Engineer

Check out my LinuxCNC tutorials, machine builds and other antics at
www.youtube.com/c/theferalengineer

Help support my channel efforts and coffee addiction:
www.patreon.com/theferalengineer

Order one of the coolest label makers on the market at
http://labelworks.epson.com, use coupon code "theferalengineer" and receive
20% off of your order 

On Tue, Nov 29, 2022, 11:53 AM Steffen Möller 
wrote:

> Hello,
>
> No need to watch this, really. Titan has a nice Heller machine and passes
> the Sinumeric control
> https://youtu.be/zToKZtqQMIo?t=354
> with some excitement. I actually find LinuxCNC even nicer, especially for
> what I saw from https://www.qtpyvcp.com/ .
>
> When we yesterday had this OpenMike session again, we had felt like there
> should be four USB sticks prepared:
>   a) for two distros - Bullseye (Debian stable) and Bookworm (Debian
> testing, soon stable)
>   b) in two flavours - minimalistic and fully-featured (including FreeCAD
> and Inkscape to make a good impression on those who come from the other OS)
>
> Andy had some confidence (and I share that) that the generation of those
> .iso files per se is not difficult. It was not immediately clear where the
> generation of those .iso files should happen, but the builders maintained
> by Sebastian are a likely target IMO.
>
> Question: Is there anybody out there who would like to work with me on a
> description and implementation of what the fully-featured .ISO should like
> alike? This would be Intel-only as a start, leaving everything for the RPi
> to Raspbian for the time being.
>
> There are a couple of Python libraries still missing on Debian to get
> QtPyVCP installed. This would likely be something for me to address.
>
> Best,
> Steffem
>
>
>
> ___
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Re: [Emc-developers] Eye candy is important - Titan got a new German friend - want that reaction for a LinuxCNC controller

[Chris Morley]

Are you discussing an official linuxcnc release of ISOs? Are you suggesting 
including qtpyvcp on the ISO? In my mind that undermines qtvcp which is 
actually part of linuxcnc.
Full disclosure, qtvcp is project I started so I am slightly biased.

Chris



Sent from my Galaxy



 Original message 
From: Steffen Möller 
Date: 2022-11-29 8:53 a.m. (GMT-08:00)
To: LinuxCNC Dev Mailing List 
Subject: [Emc-developers] Eye candy is important - Titan got a new German 
friend - want that reaction for a LinuxCNC controller

Hello,

No need to watch this, really. Titan has a nice Heller machine and passes the 
Sinumeric control
https://youtu.be/zToKZtqQMIo?t=354
with some excitement. I actually find LinuxCNC even nicer, especially for what 
I saw from https://www.qtpyvcp.com/ .

When we yesterday had this OpenMike session again, we had felt like there 
should be four USB sticks prepared:
  a) for two distros - Bullseye (Debian stable) and Bookworm (Debian testing, 
soon stable)
  b) in two flavours - minimalistic and fully-featured (including FreeCAD and 
Inkscape to make a good impression on those who come from the other OS)

Andy had some confidence (and I share that) that the generation of those .iso 
files per se is not difficult. It was not immediately clear where the 
generation of those .iso files should happen, but the builders maintained by 
Sebastian are a likely target IMO.

Question: Is there anybody out there who would like to work with me on a 
description and implementation of what the fully-featured .ISO should like 
alike? This would be Intel-only as a start, leaving everything for the RPi to 
Raspbian for the time being.

There are a couple of Python libraries still missing on Debian to get QtPyVCP 
installed. This would likely be something for me to address.

Best,
Steffem



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[Emc-developers] Eye candy is important - Titan got a new German friend - want that reaction for a LinuxCNC controller

[Steffen Möller]

Hello,

No need to watch this, really. Titan has a nice Heller machine and passes the 
Sinumeric control
https://youtu.be/zToKZtqQMIo?t=354
with some excitement. I actually find LinuxCNC even nicer, especially for what 
I saw from https://www.qtpyvcp.com/ .

When we yesterday had this OpenMike session again, we had felt like there 
should be four USB sticks prepared:
  a) for two distros - Bullseye (Debian stable) and Bookworm (Debian testing, 
soon stable)
  b) in two flavours - minimalistic and fully-featured (including FreeCAD and 
Inkscape to make a good impression on those who come from the other OS)

Andy had some confidence (and I share that) that the generation of those .iso 
files per se is not difficult. It was not immediately clear where the 
generation of those .iso files should happen, but the builders maintained by 
Sebastian are a likely target IMO.

Question: Is there anybody out there who would like to work with me on a 
description and implementation of what the fully-featured .ISO should like 
alike? This would be Intel-only as a start, leaving everything for the RPi to 
Raspbian for the time being.

There are a couple of Python libraries still missing on Debian to get QtPyVCP 
installed. This would likely be something for me to address.

Best,
Steffem



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