[fonc] POLs for rules. Fuzz testing nile

2013-02-15 Thread John Carlson
Sorry we got into a big discussion about the web. I really want to discuss POLs for rules, css being one of them. And in particular, once we have a good POL, how to test it, and author with it--how to create a great POL program? But what about probablistic rules? Can we design an ultimate

Re: [fonc] POLs for rules. Fuzz testing nile

2013-02-15 Thread John Carlson
I know of a few sites/tools which critcise your wesite...is there one for css? On Feb 15, 2013 1:02 PM, John Carlson yottz...@gmail.com wrote: Sorry we got into a big discussion about the web. I really want to discuss POLs for rules, css being one of them. And in particular, once we have a

Re: [fonc] POLs for rules. Fuzz testing nile

2013-02-15 Thread John Carlson
I guess what I am asking for is a critic service. For both POLs and uses of POLs. Can POLs be designed such that uses of POLs ensure good design? Good architecture? I am way beyond my technical knowledge here. On Feb 15, 2013 1:19 PM, John Carlson yottz...@gmail.com wrote: I know of a few

Re: [fonc] POLs for rules. Fuzz testing nile

2013-02-15 Thread shaun gilchrist
It seems this is not possible without a fitness function. A declarative approach to defining the what of your program would probably go some way towards making the validation of the how possible. BDD (behavior driven development) is the closest approach I have found to this - however the silver

Re: [fonc] POLs for rules. Fuzz testing nile

2013-02-15 Thread John Carlson
Could the fitness function be # of recent users? Any other ideas? On Feb 15, 2013 2:04 PM, shaun gilchrist shaunxc...@gmail.com wrote: It seems this is not possible without a fitness function. A declarative approach to defining the what of your program would probably go some way towards

Re: [fonc] POLs for rules. Fuzz testing nile

2013-02-15 Thread David Barbour
Can POLs be designed such that uses of POLs ensure good design? Good architecture? I am way beyond my technical knowledge here. Bad code can be written in any language, and even good code can be used to develop bad ideas and architectures. You can't ever ensure good design, not least of all

Re: [fonc] POLs for rules. Fuzz testing nile

2013-02-15 Thread John Carlson
We have design guidelines. We have look and feel. The cell phone seems to narrow down what is possible, pushing developers towards common metaphors. There are app creation wizards for smartphones now. I think there may be a turning point where people may start using wizards to create more apps.

Re: [fonc] POLs for rules. Fuzz testing nile

2013-02-15 Thread John Carlson
I know a lot of programs collect usage statistics. Does # of times used mean popular, good, or something that needs to be automated? I see your point. We don't want to automate the back button yet. On Feb 15, 2013 2:52 PM, David Barbour dmbarb...@gmail.com wrote: Can POLs be designed such

Re: [fonc] POLs for rules. Fuzz testing nile

2013-02-15 Thread John Carlson
Could one analyze the test code (not the main source code) assuming it is complete enough and make a determination? That is, the style of testing determines how good the main code is. Is there behavior driven development for behavior driven development? On Feb 15, 2013 2:04 PM, shaun gilchrist

Re: [fonc] POLs for rules. Fuzz testing nile

2013-02-15 Thread John Carlson
I.e.: given new code is checked in When code coverage is complete And all tests succeed Then deploy to integration On Feb 15, 2013 3:30 PM, John Carlson yottz...@gmail.com wrote: Could one analyze the test code (not the main source code) assuming it is complete enough and make a determination?

Re: [fonc] POLs for rules. Fuzz testing nile

2013-02-15 Thread David Barbour
There are people who do this sort of continuous deployment, and even swear by it. I've not tried it, but I suppose it encourages development of good tests and easily speeds up the feedback cycle. I've been thinking about such approaches for Wiki-based development. On Fri, Feb 15, 2013 at 2:04