Re: [FRIAM] the role of metaphor in scientific thought

< Your comparison of "closure" to Nick's idea of "surplus" (intentional or not) meaning. I accept that in programming a computer, "closure" is a useful tool, to avoid unintended "side effects".> If one thinks of the mind of two people as two circles in a Venn diagram and the intersection as

Re: [FRIAM] the role of metaphor in scientific thought

For catholics, a confirmed unmarried man might be different than a confirmed bachelor . ___ stephen.gue...@simtable.com CEO, Simtable http://www.simtable.com 1600 Lena St #D1, Santa Fe, NM 87505

Re: [FRIAM] the role of metaphor in scientific thought

Glen said a lot, That sort of pestered my thoughts. I thought some rebuttal was call for at the time he crossed into my personal fiefdom. But I was preoccupied and let it slip. >From my peculiar POV the circular component so often discussed seems to suit >certain minds as a useful

Re: [FRIAM] the role of metaphor in scientific thought

< I'm going to skip ahead a bit and state that my entire line of rhetoric about circularity goes back to the complexity jargon discussion we were having and whether or not, as Nick put it, a system has a say in its own boundary. It's all about _closure_. This particular tangent targets

Re: [FRIAM] the role of metaphor in scientific thought

Glen - Thanks for the thoughtful analysis and return to(ward) the point at hand. Your comparison of "closure" to Nick's idea of "surplus" (intentional or not) meaning. I accept that in programming a computer, "closure" is a useful tool, to avoid unintended "side effects". In natural

Re: [FRIAM] the role of metaphor in scientific thought

Ha! I struggled to come up with "single" as an alternative name and you had 4 waiting in the wings. I'm going to skip ahead a bit and state that my entire line of rhetoric about circularity goes back to the complexity jargon discussion we were having and whether or not, as Nick put it, a

Re: [FRIAM] the role of metaphor in scientific thought

Nick sez: We have a word for tingo, don’t we? Its “to ”borrow””. In my experience 'to "borrow" ', in our culture usually means to "take without permission" or more bluntly "to steal". That extends to "borrowing without returning" and anecdotally we are familiar with those who seem to do

Re: [FRIAM] the role of metaphor in scientific thought

Marcus- I was thinking of the ER=EPR example. My intuition is that after we elaborate enough examples like this, as well as Feynman's observation that since all (heretofore observed) electrons appear identical, perhaps they are a *single* electron which is everywhere/everywhen, we might

Re: [FRIAM] the role of metaphor in scientific thought

Stephen - For catholics, a confirmed unmarried man might be different than a confirmed bachelor . being an unmarried man but not a Catholic, Confirmed or otherwise, I am not a bachelor, though my current lifestyle mimics many of the qualities of the canonical (but not Canonized) confirmed

Re: [FRIAM] the role of metaphor in scientific thought

Glen writes: "How about, instead of interpretations, we think of applications, e.g. commonalities between domain-specific languages?" I'd make a distinction between embedded DSLs (built on general-purpose programming languages) and DSLs which are not. I don't want to get stuck thinking

Re: [FRIAM] the role of metaphor in scientific thought

"John Zingale referenced something in last Monday's Salon about how idioms frm early string theory investigations was almost deprecated when it found new utility in quantum loop gravity?" I was thinking of the ER=EPR example. Seems like basic questions of interpretation just get kicked down

Re: [FRIAM] the role of metaphor in scientific thought

What would you call people like me, who were reared Catholic, including confirmation and duties as an "altar boy", but who never believed a single word uttered in Mass, by parents, or in the official books? In fact, the only concepts I took, believed in, from Catholicism are 1) catholicism

Re: [FRIAM] the role of metaphor in scientific thought

On 06/23/2017 12:08 PM, Steven A Smith wrote: > Works for me, I was thinking "crypto athiest"... Naa. I don't qualify as any sort of atheist. I have gods, they're just unique gods. > Interesting that you didn't believe "a word uttered in Mass" while I, as a > young adult came to believe (or

Re: [FRIAM] the role of metaphor in scientific thought

Marcus - The _/From Other Tongues/_ sketch is good. Both what is heard and what is said could be modeled as a closure over some subjective representation. ... The squiggles suggest that the types are not yet shared amongst the agents. I agree with this, but the theme of the "From

Re: [FRIAM] the role of metaphor in scientific thought

OK. I mostly agree. But at some point, there might be an unresolveable ambiguity in the kernel, at which point I would be forced to allow pluralism. That's why I allow pluaralism from the start... to avoid having to change my mind later. 8^) I think it's easier to go from many to one than

Re: [FRIAM] the role of metaphor in scientific thought

Marcus - This is about the time when I expect Dave West to jump in with his rant about how broken the metaphor of "mind as computer" (or perhaps venn diagram) is. Though he may not be cross-subscribed here. Ignoring those arguments for a moment and giving over to the metaphor, let me

Re: [FRIAM] the role of metaphor in scientific thought

Steve writes: "To the extent that the only and precise goal is to efficiently, unambiguously, and accurately serialize the contents of one's mind and transmit it to another mind which de-serializes with the goal of syncronizing the internal states of Bob's mind to that of Alice's, perhaps what

Re: [FRIAM] the role of metaphor in scientific thought

Glen - Works for me, I was thinking "crypto athiest"... Naa. I don't qualify as any sort of atheist. I have gods, they're just unique gods. Understood... "crypto-animist" perhaps? I didn't think much of the term (animist) until I encountered it in Abram's "Spell of the Sensuous" which

Re: [FRIAM] the role of metaphor in scientific thought

Glen - What would you call people like me, who were reared Catholic, including confirmation and duties as an "altar boy", but who never believed a single word uttered in Mass, by parents, or in the official books? In fact, the only concepts I took, believed in, from Catholicism are 1)

Re: [FRIAM] the role of metaphor in scientific thought

On 06/23/2017 12:07 PM, Marcus Daniels wrote: > Many "interpretations" just put off getting to the bottom of things. Keep > the interpretations around long enough to get parallax on a better > interpretation, then press Delete. How about, instead of interpretations, we think of applications,

Re: [FRIAM] the role of metaphor in scientific thought

Just how many of these Glens are out there... I guess they just keep sprouting up like dandelions. The use of any Word requires a little cooperation from a group. If I were a solipsist why would I ever need the fiction that you understood my grunts. Why does each Glen seem to stand in different

Re: [FRIAM] the role of metaphor in scientific thought

Has anybody mentioned that there are lot of unmarried men that you usually wouldn't call bachelors? There are widowers, priests, and nineteen year-olds, for example. I learned the word because my father's brother was a thirty-five year old Major in the Air Force with no wife. He eventually got