Re: [Geeqie-devel] Release 1.3

2016-06-01 Thread Roger 
> On Tue, May 31, 2016 at 07:39:15PM +0100, Colin Clark wrote:
>>> There may be people trying to use Geeqie who struggle just to download a
>>> tar and do a make. For them, compiler warnings are an unnecessary worry,
>>> because they do not understand that the warnings are in fact irrelevant
>>> to them.
>> I don't think that people who struggle over that output will ever
>> compile geeqie themself. They use the version, the distribution is
>> giving him.
>>
>I understand your point of view, but I am not in complete agreement.
>
>I can do a few things with software, but I have no patience when I am 
>trying to get other people's software to run. If I download something 
>from the interweb, do a configure/make and get a screen-full of 
>messages, I will not spend any time trying to understand it. I will find 
>another app and try that.
>
>I would rather leave endless messages that may or may not be meaningful 
>to the profis.
>
>I much prefer programs that, if they create a run-able binary, show no 
>message other than "It works, try it". I would prefer Geeqie to be that 
>way, but I am also happy for it to stay as it is.

Those are what those warnings are meant for, for the developer to migrate from 
functions that are going to be deprecated within the future.

Sometimes those warnings may be displayed only on a person's unique platform or 
the person's build environment which is different from the developer's build 
environment.  If you think you're only seeing the warnings (due to building on 
sparc, bsd, ...), then maybe forwarding the warnings to the mailing list or 
developers would help bring them to light.  (Correct me if I'm wrong here, but 
just realized this perspective just now.)

I think the warnings I see while building, are clearly indicated by "Warning: " 
prefix.  When compiling breaks, the warnings are usually a strong indicator 
just prior to a failed compiled statement.  Usually you'll see 20-40 warnings 
when scanning the compiler stdout or compiler text logs, immediately prior to a 
statement compiling failure.

Without these sometimes numerous warnings prior to breaking, the person 
compiling is left for looking for one compiler error amongst compiler stdout.  
(This usually occurs within when using the option "-j" with large values, etc.

Most times, users can just ignore the warnings unless the compiler fails.  Sort 
of like buying a used car with it's documented history showing.  Hiding the 
warnings, would be likely buying a used car without knowing it's history.

Also, warnings are sometimes indicative of unmaintained code, likely to break 
within the future.

Most users never see the compiler messages, as most just use the software.  If 
I'm not mistaken, those compiling can further customize the compiler messages 
by modifying their make.conf file.  Most just leave them at defaults, while
developers tend to significantly increase verbosity... especially when things 
break.

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Re: [Geeqie-devel] Release 1.3

2016-05-30 Thread John Stoffel 

Colin> My view, which is but one of many, is that all compiler
Colin> messages other than errors should be inhibited for a standard
Colin> build.

I think we should inhibit the deprecated warnings, they're useless
unless we're doing a new release and/or moving to a new version of
GTK.  Otherwise they just provide no useful information at this time.

The (whitespace) dammaged patch I sent goes a long way to making
things quieter, so we can work on the real errors.

Colin> There may be people trying to use Geeqie who struggle just to
Colin> download a tar and do a make. For them, compiler warnings are
Colin> an unnecessary worry, because they do not understand that the
Colin> warnings are in fact irrelevant to them.

Exactly.  These days it's so easy to do: git clone ... && ./configure
&& make
that we should support that model if at all possible.  

Colin> They are only relevant to the developers - and unfortunately
Colin> there seems to be very few of those around at the moment.

I'm slowly trying to help out where I can.  I don't know GTK at all.

Colin> Deprecated warnings will never go away, because as fast as they
Colin> are fixed, the GTK developers are at work creating a few more.

Heh.

Colin> My view is that all warnings should only be enabled with the
Colin> --enable-developer option.

And just update the readme to reflect that change.  

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Re: [Geeqie-devel] Release 1.3

2016-05-30 Thread Klaus Ethgen 
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Hi,

Am So den 29. Mai 2016 um 18:02 schrieb Colin Clark:
> My view, which is but one of many, is that all compiler messages other 
> than errors should be inhibited for a standard build.

You mean like the kernel messages?

> There may be people trying to use Geeqie who struggle just to download a 
> tar and do a make. For them, compiler warnings are an unnecessary worry, 
> because they do not understand that the warnings are in fact irrelevant 
> to them.

I don't think that people who struggle over that output will ever
compile geeqie themself. They use the version, the distribution is
giving him.

> Deprecated warnings will never go away, because as fast as they are 
> fixed, the GTK developers are at work creating a few more.

That is a sad fact, yes.

Regards
   Klaus
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Re: [Geeqie-devel] Release 1.3

2016-05-29 Thread Roger 
> On Sun, May 29, 2016 at 06:02:00PM +0100, Colin Clark wrote:
>On 29/05/16 14:36, Klaus Ethgen wrote:
>> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
>> Hash: SHA512
>>
>> Am So den 29. Mai 2016 um  4:01 schrieb John Stoffel:
>>> Just gettings the warnings fixed would be a good goal in my mind.
>> True.
>>
>> As you might have noticed, I already did some cleanup in merges 2943df6
>> and 6164a63.
>>
>> Regards
>> Klaus
>> - -- 
>My view, which is but one of many, is that all compiler messages other 
>than errors should be inhibited for a standard build.
>
>There may be people trying to use Geeqie who struggle just to download a 
>tar and do a make. For them, compiler warnings are an unnecessary worry, 
>because they do not understand that the warnings are in fact irrelevant 
>to them.
>
>They are only relevant to the developers - and unfortunately there seems 
>to be very few of those around at the moment.
>
>Deprecated warnings will never go away, because as fast as they are 
>fixed, the GTK developers are at work creating a few more.
>
>My view is that all warnings should only be enabled with the 
>--enable-developer option.

The only problem with this configure option, albeit this is the first time I've 
ever heard of such a "configure --enable-developer" option, nobody will be 
prepared for when something then breaks.  With the omission of printing 
warnings during compiling, developers will effectively loose hindsight, unless 
they spend more time to further state further configure time options to print 
the warnings.

Most who compile, need to keep apprised of deprecated warnings, for future 
problems or newer version releases of depends.

Furthermore, you're asking to change something that has been default for more 
than 10-20 years.  It would probably be better to inhibit a "--no-warnings" 
configure option.  In which I think there already is if you manually augment 
the gcc/gcc++ parameters.  (ie. cc --help=warnings; -W/Wextra)  But when I'm 
compiling, I usually always add the -W/Wextra, and further when debugging 
-ggdb, etc...  The more the merrier.)

I think if somebody wants to make the compiling statements prettier or more 
readable, I would suggest using Color GCC.  Color GCC compiler statements are 
more well readable too!

The other option used for source based distributions, is providing the package 
manager responsible for handling "extracting, configuring, building and 
installing", a quiet parameter.  (ie. --quiet)  Most people compiling, would 
likely use the package manager for quieting output.  When compiling every other 
day packages, I do use --quiet.

-- 
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Re: [Geeqie-devel] Release 1.3

2016-05-29 Thread Colin Clark 
On 29/05/16 14:36, Klaus Ethgen wrote:
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA512
>
> Am So den 29. Mai 2016 um  4:01 schrieb John Stoffel:
>> Just gettings the warnings fixed would be a good goal in my mind.
> True.
>
> As you might have noticed, I already did some cleanup in merges 2943df6
> and 6164a63.
>
> Regards
> Klaus
> - -- 
My view, which is but one of many, is that all compiler messages other 
than errors should be inhibited for a standard build.

There may be people trying to use Geeqie who struggle just to download a 
tar and do a make. For them, compiler warnings are an unnecessary worry, 
because they do not understand that the warnings are in fact irrelevant 
to them.

They are only relevant to the developers - and unfortunately there seems 
to be very few of those around at the moment.

Deprecated warnings will never go away, because as fast as they are 
fixed, the GTK developers are at work creating a few more.

My view is that all warnings should only be enabled with the 
--enable-developer option.


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Re: [Geeqie-devel] Release 1.3

2016-05-29 Thread Klaus Ethgen 
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Am So den 29. Mai 2016 um  4:01 schrieb John Stoffel:
> Just gettings the warnings fixed would be a good goal in my mind.

True.

As you might have noticed, I already did some cleanup in merges 2943df6
and 6164a63.

Regards
   Klaus
- -- 
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Re: [Geeqie-devel] Release 1.3

2016-05-28 Thread John Stoffel 
> "Klaus" == Klaus Ethgen  writes:

Klaus> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Klaus> Hash: SHA512

Klaus> Hi,

Klaus> Am Fr den 27. Mai 2016 um 19:33 schrieb John Stoffel:
>> Just to let you know, I'm seeing a bunch of warnings when I did a test
>> compile on Debian Jesse x86_64 system.  I probably don't have all the
>> right libraries installed or something, but I figured cleaning this up
>> would be a good start.

Klaus> Yes, we use some deprecated stuff. Some of them I even don't
Klaus> want to replace. (The inline image stuff)

It would be nice if we could turn those warnings off somehow, because
they will just hide other more important errors.  

Klaus> There are even some warnings in rcfile.c.. Nothing critical but
Klaus> might need some small work.

Well now I think I can try to work on those cleanups if I can find
some time.  Just gettings the warnings fixed would be a good goal in
my mind.

John

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Re: [Geeqie-devel] Release 1.3

2016-05-27 Thread John Stoffel 

Just to let you know, I'm seeing a bunch of warnings when I did a test
compile on Debian Jesse x86_64 system.  I probably don't have all the
right libraries installed or something, but I figured cleaning this up
would be a good start.

Maybe I can do something this weekend... Sorry for the crappy cut'n'paste, my 
terminals are doing something wonky... and this is only a small subset of the 
warnings I'm getting.  It would be nice to get rid of these deprecated warnings 
for regular builds


image.c: In function ‘image_select’:
image.c:1679:3: warning: ‘gtk_widget_set_state’ is deprecated (declared at 
/usr/include/gtk-3.0/gtk]
   gtk_widget_set_state(imd->widget, GTK_STATE_SELECTED);
  ^
  image.c:1680:3: warning: ‘gtk_widget_set_state’ is deprecated (declared 
at /usr/include/gtk-3.0/gtk]
 gtk_widget_set_state(imd->pr, GTK_STATE_NORMAL); /* do not propagate */
^
image.c:1683:3: warning: ‘gtk_widget_set_state’ is deprecated 
(declared at /usr/include/gtk-3.0/gtk]
   gtk_widget_set_state(imd->widget, GTK_STATE_NORMAL);
  ^
  image.c: In function ‘selectable_frame_draw_cb’:
  image.c:1788:2: warning: ‘gtk_paint_flat_box’ is deprecated 
(declared at /usr/include/gtk-3.0/gtk/d]
gtk_paint_flat_box(gtk_widget_get_style(widget),
  ^
  image.c:1788:2: warning: ‘gtk_widget_get_style’ is 
deprecated (declared at /usr/include/gtk-3.0/gtk]
  image.c:1790:7: warning: ‘gtk_widget_get_state’ is 
deprecated (declared at /usr/include/gtk-3.0/gtk]
 gtk_widget_get_state(widget),
^
image.c:1799:3: warning: ‘gtk_paint_focus’ 
is deprecated (declared at /usr/include/gtk-3.0/gtk/depr]
   
gtk_paint_focus(gtk_widget_get_style(widget), cr, GTK_STATE_ACTIVE,
  ^
  image.c:1799:3: warning: 
‘gtk_widget_get_style’ is deprecated (declared at /usr/include/gtk-3.0/gtk]
  image.c:1806:3: warning: 
‘gtk_paint_shadow’ is deprecated (declared at /usr/include/gtk-3.0/gtk/dep]
 
gtk_paint_shadow(gtk_widget_get_style(widget), cr, GTK_STATE_NORMAL, 
GTK_SHADOW_IN,
^
image.c:1806:3: warning: 
‘gtk_widget_get_style’ is deprecated (declared at /usr/include/gtk-3.0/gtk]
image.c: In function 
‘image_new’:
image.c:1916:2: warning: 
‘gtk_vbox_new’ is deprecated (declared at /usr/include/gtk-3.0/gtk/depreca]
  imd->widget = gtk_vbox_new(0, 
0);
^
mv -f .deps/image.Tpo 
.deps/image.Po


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