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Re: [gentoo-user] [nfs] nfs mount settings
On Monday 27 July 2009 03:18:34 Harry Putnam wrote: I'm not that familiar with nfs usage ... only used lightly a few times. I have an opensolaris nfs server serving a share to my gentoo box. The mount point is set as owner:group of my user (reader). Also has the set-gid bit set. ls -ld /projects drwxr-sr-x 2 reader wheel 48 Jun 24 07:08 /projects And the mount settings in /etc/fstab (zfs is the hostname of the opensolaris server) zfs:/projects /projectsnfs noauto,users,exec,dev 0 0 With those settings my user or root can mount it. When its mounted the permissions change to this: ls -ld /projects drwxr-sr-x+ 13 reader man 14 Jul 25 09:47 /projects Whats with the `man' group? The way nfs works is that it takes a remote filesystem and *mounts* it locally, exactly as if it were a local filesystem. It is not a share. The inodes are exported over nfs and that directory is owned by a group with gid of say X. On your local machine that gid just happens to be the man group. There is nothing much you can do about this except: Renumber your gid's locally to match the nfs server, or renumber the nfs share gids to match your local machine Also, when mounted I find when I try to copy somethihng with the -a option, which tries to maintain any permission settings. It causes an error warning... (although the copy is done). cp -a file file1 cp: preserving permissions for `file1': Operation not supported Full paths please. I can't see which way the copy is going. I suspect that your user on the nfs server is not a member of the group that has the same gid as your local man group. And the files permissions end up: ls -l file* -rw-r--r--+ 1 reader man223962 Jul 26 15:56 file -rw-r--r--+ 1 reader reader 223962 Jul 26 15:56 file1 Is there some way to set it up so that permissions can be copied? Also to alow the set-gid setting to work? Golden rule with nfs: It was designed for the case of a diskless client mounts it's home or root directories over the network, while exporting passwd and shadow files over NIS. That is evident in it's design and there is no facility to change uids and gids on the fly. You do not authenticate with nfs, the server assumes that the request coming from the client is OK and treats it exactly as it would a request from a local user on a local disk. This is the primary reason why nfs performs so well. It is up to you to make sure your uids and gids everywhere match and work. nfs cannot and will not help with this. -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
Re: [gentoo-user] [nfs] nfs mount settings
On 27 Jul 2009, at 02:18, Harry Putnam wrote: ... I have an opensolaris nfs server serving a share to my gentoo box. The mount point is set as owner:group of my user (reader). ... ls -ld /projects drwxr-sr-x 2 reader wheel 48 Jun 24 07:08 /projects ... When its mounted the permissions change to this: ls -ld /projects drwxr-sr-x+ 13 reader man 14 Jul 25 09:47 /projects Further to A McK's reply, suggest use of `ls -ln`. Assuming the -n is supported on Slowaris all will become clear. Stroller.
Re: [gentoo-user] OT: WebCam? Second Edition
On 26 Jul 2009, at 10:12, meino.cra...@gmx.de wrote: ... What's about the pictire quality of the Playstation Eye Cam, Scroller? Ok? Good? Better? Best??? ;))) Well, I haven't tried it under Linux, and I'm afraid I can't easily do so either. I'll also disclaim myself as not an expert by any means on the subject of webcams, but to my eyes the picture was really good when I tried it with the PS3 and on Windows. I think I compared it with my Macbook's built-in webcam (Windows XP, Apple's bootcamp drivers) the Playstation Eye was better (also XP, 3rd-party hacker's drivers). I have seen the output of plenty of cheap nasty webcams, and I would say this is in a better class. For your application the quality of image indoors in low-light (which I think is quite good) may not be an advantage; you may find both zoom settings may be quite wide. But this camera seems quite good quality and feels well made; Linux drivers are available although I've no idea how good they are. I mentioned this cam in my previous message because I read that it maxes out the USB bus. But if you want to play around with webcams, it can also be picked up quite cheaply - I paid £20 for it (included with the Eye of Judgement card game) at Christmas, and I've seen it more recently for £25. Stroller.
Re: [gentoo-user] {OT} SSD instead of RAID1?
On 26 Jul 2009, at 11:46, Grant wrote: ... What if I bought a low-price/low-capacity SSD drive for each of these systems, installed the system essentials on them, and used my existing high-capacity HD drives for data storage? Would each system keep running if the HDs died? If so, I think that would offer as good or better system reliability than RAID1. What do you think? You don't need to buy SSD drives - instead you could use CF cards and a cheap adaptor. These are commensurate in capacity cost with USB flash drives (4gig, maybe 16gig?), but CF cards talk EIDE and you can get cheap pin-convertors allowing you to connect them to EIDE cables and treat them like a hard-drive. I know of these used in Asterisk based PABX systems PoS tills with the expectation that they're more reliable than disks, and have read statements by people deploying quantities of such machines that they've never had a failure in years of use. I don't know how that really compares to RAID 1 - if you use hardware RAID (and you can get hardware SATA controllers for £50 these days) then you can assign a hot-spare, and hot-swap a replacement drive with zero downtime. With hardware RAID you can still boot if one of the drives fails, but you do add the controller as a potential point-of- failure. Stroller.
Re: [gentoo-user] [nfs] nfs mount settings
Am Montag 27 Juli 2009 03:18:34 schrieb Harry Putnam: I'm not that familiar with nfs usage ... only used lightly a few times. I have an opensolaris nfs server serving a share to my gentoo box. The mount point is set as owner:group of my user (reader). Also has the set-gid bit set. ls -ld /projects drwxr-sr-x 2 reader wheel 48 Jun 24 07:08 /projects BTW: The permissions of the mount point don't matter since they can be different after the directory has been mounted. So I guess the set-gid only needs to be set on the exported directory. In fact, I would set the permissions of the mount point so that it's only writable by root so that ordinary users can't write to it while it's unmounted (a later mount would make those files invisible for as long as the directory is mounted). And finally: Using the kernel automounter (autofs) avoids 1) the need for the users option 2) users forgetting to mount the thing Bye... Dirk signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] cloning + upgrade howto?
Neil Bothwick wrote: That's still two commands :) You can do it in one with emerge -uavDN @world xfce4 Only if your portage supports @world, not sure if mine does yet :) signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
[gentoo-user] LiveCD installation not recognizing megaraid RAID set
I was trying to put gentoo on a dell poweredge 1950 quadcore xeon machine with three disks connected to a lsi PERC 5/i raid controller. In the BIOS settings, all three disks were added to the controller for a RAID5 set up. When I boot from LiveCD (2008 version with 2.6.24-r5 kernel) with dmraid='-ay' option, it came up not recognizing the RAID set, as I only saw control under /dev/mapper. modprobe megaraid was okay, so was modprobe raid5. Under /dev, I only saw sda, but there was no sdb, sdc. So it looked like there was only one disk but the system did not recognize it as a raid set. Booting from LiveCD with dmraid='-ay' doscsi didn't help. I got the same result. If I did a dmraid -ay in bash, I got No RAID disks. Could anyone point me to some instructions on how to make Gentoo recognize the PERC 5/i RAID controller? I tried both 32bit and 64bit gentoo and results were the same. lspci showed: 02:0e.0 RAID bus controller: Dell PowerEdge Expandable RAID controller 5 dmesg showed: megaraid cmm: 2.20.2.7 (Release Date: Sun Jul 16 00:01:03 EST 2006) megaraid: 2.20.5.1 (Release Date: Thu Nov 16 15:32:35 EST 2006) megasas: 00.00.03.10-rc5 Thu May 17 10:09:32 PDT 2007 megasas: 0x1028:0x0015:0x1028:0x1f03: bus 2:slot 14:func 0 ACPI: PCI Interrupt :02:0e.0[A] - GSI 78 (level, low) - IRQ 17 megasas: FW now in Ready state scsi4 : LSI Logic SAS based MegaRAID driver scsi 4:0:0:0: Direct-Access SEAGATE ST973402SS S206 PQ: 0 ANSI: 5 scsi 4:0:1:0: Direct-Access SEAGATE ST973402SS S206 PQ: 0 ANSI: 5 scsi 4:0:2:0: Direct-Access SEAGATE ST973402SS S206 PQ: 0 ANSI: 5 QLogic Fibre Channel HBA Driver scsi 4:0:8:0: Enclosure DP BACKPLANE1.05 PQ: 0 ANSI: 5 scsi 4:2:0:0: Direct-Access DELL PERC 5/i 1.03 PQ: 0 ANSI: 5 scsi 4:0:8:0: Attached scsi generic sg1 type 13 sd 4:2:0:0: [sda] 284164096 512-byte hardware sectors (145492 MB) sd 4:2:0:0: [sda] Write Protect is off sd 4:2:0:0: [sda] Mode Sense: 1f 00 10 08 sd 4:2:0:0: [sda] Write cache: disabled, read cache: disabled, supports DPO and FUA sd 4:2:0:0: [sda] 284164096 512-byte hardware sectors (145492 MB) sd 4:2:0:0: [sda] Write Protect is off sd 4:2:0:0: [sda] Mode Sense: 1f 00 10 08 Thanks very much for your help! -- -hoki
Re: [gentoo-user] cloning + upgrade howto?
On Mon, 27 Jul 2009 09:33:37 +0100, Nevynxxx wrote: emerge -uavDN @world xfce4 Only if your portage supports @world, not sure if mine does yet :) It should, unless you are woefully out of date. -- Neil Bothwick Mr. bullfrog says: time's fun when you're having flies. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] LiveCD installation not recognizing megaraid RAID set
On Mon, 27 Jul 2009 16:45:28 +0800, Ho-Ki Au wrote: I was trying to put gentoo on a dell poweredge 1950 quadcore xeon machine with three disks connected to a lsi PERC 5/i raid controller. In the BIOS settings, all three disks were added to the controller for a RAID5 set up. When I boot from LiveCD (2008 version with 2.6.24-r5 kernel) with dmraid='-ay' option, it came up not recognizing the RAID set, dmraid is for software RAID. If you have a hardware RAID controller, you should just see the single device presented by the controller, not the three individual disks. -- Neil Bothwick If the pen is mightier than the sword, and a picture is worth a thousand words, how dangerous is a fax? signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] LiveCD installation not recognizing megaraid RAID set
Ho-Ki Au a écrit : I was trying to put gentoo on a dell poweredge 1950 quadcore xeon machine with three disks connected to a lsi PERC 5/i raid controller. In the BIOS settings, all three disks were added to the controller for a RAID5 set up. When I boot from LiveCD (2008 version with 2.6.24-r5 kernel) with dmraid='-ay' option, it came up not recognizing the RAID set, as I only saw control under /dev/mapper. modprobe megaraid was okay, so was modprobe raid5. Under /dev, I only saw sda, but there was no sdb, sdc. So it looked like there was only one disk but the system did not recognize it as a raid set. Booting from LiveCD with dmraid='-ay' doscsi didn't help. I got the same result. If I did a dmraid -ay in bash, I got No RAID disks. Could anyone point me to some instructions on how to make Gentoo recognize the PERC 5/i RAID controller? I tried both 32bit and 64bit gentoo and results were the same. lspci showed: 02:0e.0 RAID bus controller: Dell PowerEdge Expandable RAID controller 5 dmesg showed: megaraid cmm: 2.20.2.7 (Release Date: Sun Jul 16 00:01:03 EST 2006) megaraid: 2.20.5.1 (Release Date: Thu Nov 16 15:32:35 EST 2006) megasas: 00.00.03.10-rc5 Thu May 17 10:09:32 PDT 2007 megasas: 0x1028:0x0015:0x1028:0x1f03: bus 2:slot 14:func 0 ACPI: PCI Interrupt :02:0e.0[A] - GSI 78 (level, low) - IRQ 17 megasas: FW now in Ready state scsi4 : LSI Logic SAS based MegaRAID driver scsi 4:0:0:0: Direct-Access SEAGATE ST973402SS S206 PQ: 0 ANSI: 5 scsi 4:0:1:0: Direct-Access SEAGATE ST973402SS S206 PQ: 0 ANSI: 5 scsi 4:0:2:0: Direct-Access SEAGATE ST973402SS S206 PQ: 0 ANSI: 5 QLogic Fibre Channel HBA Driver scsi 4:0:8:0: Enclosure DP BACKPLANE1.05 PQ: 0 ANSI: 5 scsi 4:2:0:0: Direct-Access DELL PERC 5/i 1.03 PQ: 0 ANSI: 5 scsi 4:0:8:0: Attached scsi generic sg1 type 13 sd 4:2:0:0: [sda] 284164096 512-byte hardware sectors (145492 MB) sd 4:2:0:0: [sda] Write Protect is off sd 4:2:0:0: [sda] Mode Sense: 1f 00 10 08 sd 4:2:0:0: [sda] Write cache: disabled, read cache: disabled, supports DPO and FUA sd 4:2:0:0: [sda] 284164096 512-byte hardware sectors (145492 MB) sd 4:2:0:0: [sda] Write Protect is off sd 4:2:0:0: [sda] Mode Sense: 1f 00 10 08 Thanks very much for your help! Your RAID set is being detected by the LiveCD. It looks as though you have a RAID5 set using 3x72GB drives. This would be consistent with the size of /dev/sda (144GB). Because it's hardware RAID, operating systems don't usually access each individual disk but rather the disk set presented by the controller. As mentioned by Neil, dmraid is for software RAID management. If you want to manage your RAID controller or disk sets from Linux, you'll have to find management software capable of doing this. Try the server manufacture's site or the RAID manufacture's web site to see if such software exists. Hope that helps, Carlos
Re: [gentoo-user] LiveCD installation not recognizing megaraid RAID set
It took Carlos' reply for me to reread make sense of the original
post.
On 27 Jul 2009, at 11:46, Carlos wrote:
Ho-Ki Au a écrit :
... In the BIOS settings, all three disks were added to the
controller for a RAID5 set up. ... Under /dev, I only saw sda, but
there was no sdb, sdc. So it looked like there was only one disk
but the system did not recognize it as a raid set.
It looks like *not only* did you add them to the controller, but you
configured them as a single drive. Therefore this looks correct.
The whole point of RAID is that multiple disks should appear to the
host o/s as a single drive.
As mentioned by Neil, dmraid is for software RAID management. If
you want to manage your RAID controller or disk sets from Linux,
you'll have to find management software capable of doing this. Try
the server manufacture's site or the RAID manufacture's web site to
see if such software exists.
A Google for PERC5 Linux reveals:
http://blog.gtuhl.com/2009/03/11/monitoring-dell-perc5-and-perc6-disks-in-arch-linux/
Then searching Portage:
$ eix sys-block/mega
* sys-block/megacli
Available versions: ~1.01.40!m!s!t ~2.00.15!m!s!t ~4.00.11!m!s!t
Homepage:http://www.lsi.com/
Description: LSI Logic MegaRAID Command Line Interface
management tool
* sys-block/megactl
Available versions: ~0.4.1
Homepage:http://sourceforge.net/projects/megactl/
Description: LSI MegaRAID control utility
* sys-block/megamgr
Available versions: ~5.20!m!s!t ~5.20-r1!m!s!t
Homepage:http://www.lsi.com
Description: LSI Logic MegaRAID Text User Interface
management tool
* sys-block/megarc
Available versions: ~1.11!m!s!t {doc}
Homepage:http://www.lsi.com
Description: LSI Logic MegaRAID Text User Interface
management tool
Found 4 matches.
$
Viewing the RAID using the correct LSI utility should show the
individual drives.
I use the tw_cli for my 3ware controller. This is how it it appears on
my system (the LSI utility will have a different name syntax):
$ sudo tw_cli /c0/u1 show
Unit UnitType Status %RCmpl %V/I/M Port Stripe Size(GB)
u1 RAID-5OK - - - 64K 931.303
u1-0 DISK OK - - p4- 465.651
u1-1 DISK OK - - p5- 465.651
u1-2 DISK OK - - p6- 465.651
$
Stroller.
Re: [gentoo-user] {OT} SSD instead of RAID1?
... What if I bought a low-price/low-capacity SSD drive for each of these systems, installed the system essentials on them, and used my existing high-capacity HD drives for data storage? Would each system keep running if the HDs died? If so, I think that would offer as good or better system reliability than RAID1. What do you think? You don't need to buy SSD drives - instead you could use CF cards and a cheap adaptor. These are commensurate in capacity cost with USB flash drives (4gig, maybe 16gig?), but CF cards talk EIDE and you can get cheap pin-convertors allowing you to connect them to EIDE cables and treat them like a hard-drive. Aren't CF cards much slower than SSD drives and HD drives? I know of these used in Asterisk based PABX systems PoS tills with the expectation that they're more reliable than disks, and have read statements by people deploying quantities of such machines that they've never had a failure in years of use. I like the sound of that. I don't know how that really compares to RAID 1 - if you use hardware RAID (and you can get hardware SATA controllers for £50 these days) then you can assign a hot-spare, and hot-swap a replacement drive with zero downtime. With hardware RAID you can still boot if one of the drives fails, but you do add the controller as a potential point-of-failure. Would the system keeping running if I used a CF or SSD for the system install and the HD drive died? - Grant
[gentoo-user] 5.b. Default: Using a Stage from the Internet
Hi, Having a go at installing Gentoo don't really know what I'm doing. Seems to be an error with the file I've downloaded. Should I try download again? livecd gentoo # md5sum -c stage3-x86-2008.0.tar.bz2.DIGESTS ./stage3-x86-2008.0.tar.bz2: OK md5sum: ./stage3-x86-2008.0.tar.bz2.CONTENTS: No such file or directory ./stage3-x86-2008.0.tar.bz2.CONTENTS: FAILED open or read md5sum: WARNING: 1 of 2 listed files could not be read Portage seemed to be fine: livecd gentoo # md5sum -c portage-latest.tar.bz2.md5sum portage-latest.tar.bz2: OK Thanks, Brenton. -- This electronic communication (including any attached files) may contain confidential and/or legally privileged information and is only intended for the viewing purposes of the person to whom it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, you do not have permission to read, use, disseminate, distribute, copy or retain any part of this communication or its attachments in any form. If you receive this email in error, please contact us by email and delete all copies.
[gentoo-user] Re: Firefox 3.0.12 emerge dies
On 07/26/2009 01:25 PM, Walter Dnes wrote: I've been unsuccessfully trying to build the latest security patch version of Firefox 3.0. I keep getting the same error message after 3 days of re-syncing and retrying. The build dies early on in the patch-appliaction stage, so log.txt is small. The error message also mentioned to include the contents of the patch .out file, which I have done as log2.txt. Any ideas? My ~amd64 machine skipped that version and went to 3.5.1 instead. Is there a particular reason you don't want to do that?
Re: [gentoo-user] 5.b. Default: Using a Stage from the Internet
Brenton schrieb: Hi, Having a go at installing Gentoo don't really know what I'm doing. Seems to be an error with the file I've downloaded. Should I try download again? livecd gentoo # md5sum -c stage3-x86-2008.0.tar.bz2.DIGESTS ./stage3-x86-2008.0.tar.bz2: OK md5sum: ./stage3-x86-2008.0.tar.bz2.CONTENTS: No such file or directory ./stage3-x86-2008.0.tar.bz2.CONTENTS: FAILED open or read md5sum: WARNING: 1 of 2 listed files could not be read There is also a file stage3-x86-2008.0.tar.bz2.CONTENTS on the webserver you got the stuff from. Either download it too and you will have no error anymore, or just ignore it, because the stage archive is actually okay. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-user] 5.b. Default: Using a Stage from the Internet
On Mon, 27 Jul 2009 22:49:58 +1000, Brenton brentons.ho...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, Having a go at installing Gentoo don't really know what I'm doing. Seems to be an error with the file I've downloaded. Should I try download again? You just have to download stage3-x86-2008.0.tar.bz2.CONTENTS, which is at the same location than the stage and the DIGESTS you download... So, don't worry, your stage seems to be OK ! HTH. livecd gentoo # md5sum -c stage3-x86-2008.0.tar.bz2.DIGESTS ./stage3-x86-2008.0.tar.bz2: OK md5sum: ./stage3-x86-2008.0.tar.bz2.CONTENTS: No such file or directory ./stage3-x86-2008.0.tar.bz2.CONTENTS: FAILED open or read md5sum: WARNING: 1 of 2 listed files could not be read Portage seemed to be fine: livecd gentoo # md5sum -c portage-latest.tar.bz2.md5sum portage-latest.tar.bz2: OK Thanks, Brenton. -- Xavier Parizet YaGB : http://gentooist.com GPG :DC81 6FEE 6EBE FCE4 1C18 202F E575 4A5D 036D 1408
[gentoo-user] emerge kdirstat fails
Hello, emerging kde-misc/kdirstat-2.5.3-r1 doesn't compile due to this error: $emerge -pv kde-misc/kdirstat [ebuild N] kde-misc/kdirstat-2.5.3-r1 USE=-debug -xinerama kcleanup.moc.o: In function `KDirStat::KCleanup::~KCleanup()': kcleanup.moc.cpp: (.text._ZN8KDirStat8KCleanupD0Ev[KDirStat::KCleanup::~KCleanup()]+0x24): undefined reference to `QStringData::deleteSelf()' (...) collect2: ld returned 1 exit status make[3]: *** [kdirstat] Fehler 1 make[2]: *** [all-recursive] Fehler 1 make[1]: *** [all-recursive] Fehler 1 make: *** [all] Fehler 2 * * ERROR: kde-misc/kdirstat-2.5.3-r1 failed. * Call stack: * ebuild.sh, line 49: Called src_compile * environment, line 4371: Called kde_src_compile * environment, line 3157: Called kde_src_compile 'all' * environment, line 3172: Called kde_src_compile 'make' * environment, line 3164: Called die * The specific snippet of code: * emake || die died running emake, $FUNCNAME:make * The die message: * died running emake, kde_src_compile:make I'm working with kde4 (~amd64), kde3 apps like k3b, kaffeine and quanta work flawlessly. What did I overlook? emerge --info Portage 2.1.6.13 (default/linux/amd64/2008.0/desktop, gcc-4.3.3, glibc-2.9_p20081201-r2, 2.6.29-sabayon-03.04.2009-11 x86_64) = System uname: Linux-2.6.29-sabayon-03.04.2009-11-x86_64-Intel-R-_Xeon-R- _cpu_51...@_2.00ghz-with-glibc2.2.5 Timestamp of tree: Sun, 26 Jul 2009 20:45:01 + ccache version 2.4 [enabled] app-shells/bash: 4.0_p10-r1 dev-java/java-config: 2.1.8-r1 dev-lang/python: 2.5.4-r3 dev-util/ccache: 2.4-r8 dev-util/cmake: 2.6.4-r1 sys-apps/baselayout: 2.0.0 sys-apps/openrc: 0.4.3-r5 sys-apps/sandbox:2.0 sys-devel/autoconf: 2.13, 2.63-r1 sys-devel/automake: 1.4_p6, 1.5, 1.7.9-r1, 1.8.5-r3, 1.9.6-r2, 1.10.2 sys-devel/binutils: 2.19.1-r1 sys-devel/gcc-config: 1.4.1 sys-devel/libtool: 2.2.6a virtual/os-headers: 2.6.28-r1 ACCEPT_KEYWORDS=amd64 CBUILD=x86_64-pc-linux-gnu CFLAGS=-march=nocona -O2 -pipe CHOST=x86_64-pc-linux-gnu CONFIG_PROTECT=/etc /usr/kde/3.5/env /usr/kde/3.5/share/config /usr/kde/3.5/share/config/kdm /usr/kde/3.5/shutdown /usr/share/config CONFIG_PROTECT_MASK=/etc/ca-certificates.conf /etc/env.d /etc/env.d/java/ /etc/fonts/fonts.conf /etc/gconf /etc/gentoo-release /etc/php/apache2- php5/ext-active/ /etc/php/cgi-php5/ext-active/ /etc/php/cli-php5/ext-active/ /etc/revdep-rebuild /etc/sandbox.d /etc/splash /etc/terminfo /etc/texmf/language.dat.d /etc/texmf/language.def.d /etc/texmf/updmap.d /etc/texmf/web2c /etc/udev/rules.d CXXFLAGS=-march=nocona -O2 -pipe
Re: [gentoo-user] emerge kdirstat fails
On 7/27/09, Nicolai Beuermann nicolai.beuerm...@gmx.de wrote: Hello, emerging kde-misc/kdirstat-2.5.3-r1 doesn't compile due to this error: This bug has someone fighting with this package with moderate success (uninstalling : http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=248883 -- Arttu V.
Re: [gentoo-user] emerge kdirstat fails
On 7/27/09, Arttu V. arttu...@gmail.com wrote: On 7/27/09, Nicolai Beuermann nicolai.beuerm...@gmx.de wrote: Hello, emerging kde-misc/kdirstat-2.5.3-r1 doesn't compile due to this error: This bug has someone fighting with this package with moderate success (uninstalling : http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=248883 Grumble, grumble, accidental send-click again in gmail (sorry). Meant to type uninstalling qt 4, then emerging kdirstat, then re-emerging qt 4 in the parenthesis. -- Arttu V.
[gentoo-user] Re: [nfs] nfs mount settings
Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com writes: There is nothing much you can do about this except: Renumber your gid's locally to match the nfs server, or renumber the nfs share gids to match your local machine Looking into that I noticed, as you thought the gid of the share on solaris is alphabetic wheel but numeric 15. Which is the gid of `man' on gentoo. But I noticed the gid 16 is not taken on the gentoo os so promoted man to gid 16 and changed wheel from 10 to 15. Logging my user out and back in I see the gid 15 now is wheel so the same as solaris. Having my user mount the nfs ... it ends up `reader:wheel'. Both are my users uid and one of his gids so now both the uid and gid match those on the solaris OS where user reader:wheel owns the source directory. (also /projects on solaris box). But with all that in place a copy using `-a' still causes the the same error warning. ls -l /projects/it -rw-r--r--+ 1 reader wheel 0 Jul 27 09:17 /projects/it cp -a /projects/it /projects/it2 cp: preserving permissions for `/projects/it2': Operation not supported ls -l /projects/it2 -rw-r--r--+ 1 reader wheel 0 Jul 27 09:17 /projects/it2 == user reader (on gentoo) running command id -a uid=1000(reader) gid=1000(reader) groups=15(wheel),16(man), 250(portage),1000(reader) user reader (on solaris) running command id -a uid=1000(reader) gid=10(staff) groups=10(staff),3(sys),4 (adm),15(wheel) == And the nfs source directory is also set-gid (by user reader) ls -ld /projects (on solaris server) drwxr-sr-x 14 reader wheel 17 2009-07-27 09:29 /projects
[gentoo-user] Re: [nfs] nfs mount settings
Stroller strol...@stellar.eclipse.co.uk writes: Further to A McK's reply, suggest use of `ls -ln`. Assuming the -n is supported on Slowaris all will become clear. But after the changes mentioned in a reply to Alan M. it now shows the same on both the source /projects (on solaris) and the mounted nfs /projects on gentoo. ls -ln (on solaris) ls -ln /projects total 18 drwxr-xr-x 2 1000 10 5 2009-07-25 18:46 bookmks drwxrwxrwx 9 1000 15 10 2009-07-13 08:38 harvey drwxr-xr-x 3 1000 15 3 2009-01-21 18:22 mob1 drwxr-xr-x 32 1000 15 34 2009-06-24 07:35 reader_rdr [...] = ls -ln (on gentoo) total 18 drwxr-xr-x+ 2 1000 10 5 Jul 25 18:46 bookmks drwxrwxrwx 9 1000 15 10 Jul 13 08:38 harvey drwxr-xr-x+ 3 1000 15 3 Jan 21 2009 mob1 drwxr-xr-x+ 32 1000 15 34 Jun 24 07:35 reader_rdr [...] The only difference I see is the `+' on gentoo. I'm not sure what that means.
Re: [gentoo-user] OT: WebCam? Second Edition
On Sat, Jul 25, 2009 at 11:35 PM, meino.cra...@gmx.de wrote: WebCam: Logitech Quickcam Pro for Notebooks, 2009er model which is not affected by the firmware bug of previous versions of the same cam. First, check the info and forums at http://www.quickcamteam.net/ if you have not already. Lots of good info and Logitech developers there. Try to disable the auto exposure and low-light features. It really kills the frame rate. CPU load of processing and displaying live video is also prohibitive on slower hardware. I have a Quickcam Pro 9000 which I believe is very similar to the notebook version you have, maybe the same chipset. I, too, was very disappointed with the video quality considering the reviews, the marketing HD video 1600x1200, and the cost. I expected it to look like a camcorder, but it is basically crap. I even attached it to a Windows machine using the official Logitech drivers and software and it is equally unimpressive. Based on all of the reviews online it seems this is one of the best consumer webcams (without getting into very expensive professional equipment). In a dim room, even with normal indoor lighting, I get about 5fps with the auto-exposure/low-light features enabled. With bright light it's about 15fps. Disabling those features should give you the highest frame rate but, of course, they make the image look much better at the expense of frame rate. It has been a very long time since I used it but I think all of these settings were able to be controled via luvcview for testing. Good luck, I think I had some hairs turn gray trying to make it look good...
Re: [gentoo-user] {OT} SSD instead of RAID1?
Grant schrieb: ... What if I bought a low-price/low-capacity SSD drive for each of these systems, installed the system essentials on them, and used my existing high-capacity HD drives for data storage? Would each system keep running if the HDs died? If so, I think that would offer as good or better system reliability than RAID1. What do you think? You don't need to buy SSD drives - instead you could use CF cards and a cheap adaptor. These are commensurate in capacity cost with USB flash drives (4gig, maybe 16gig?), but CF cards talk EIDE and you can get cheap pin-convertors allowing you to connect them to EIDE cables and treat them like a hard-drive. Aren't CF cards much slower than SSD drives and HD drives? Yep, especially the cheap ones which do not support DMA, just PIO. But this is not necessarily a problem: After starting all services etc. there will be very few reads on stuff like /etc and /usr. Just make sure to put all directories to which you write (parts of /var like /var/log and the several tmp directories) on an HDD, NFS or tmpfs. Of course, this all depends on your usage patterns and how much RAM you have. If you really need to write to the CFDisk, make sure to buy one with DMA support (and no, the label super fast which is regularly found on these things does not necessarily mean that it supports DMA). One drawback of this configuration: You can never use swap - never! Neither on the HDD (there is a high chance that the system would crash when the HDD fails) nor on the (cheap) SSD/flash drive (the drive would wear down, removing any advantage you tried to gain). I know of these used in Asterisk based PABX systems PoS tills with the expectation that they're more reliable than disks, and have read statements by people deploying quantities of such machines that they've never had a failure in years of use. I like the sound of that. Where I work, we have a System-on-a-Chip (SoC) NAS. Albeit being the second most powerful machine we have in our server room (quad core CPU, lots of RAM, three redundant power supplies and a good dozen HDDs), the OSS itself resides on a removable card not bigger than my thumb. I don't know how that really compares to RAID 1 - if you use hardware RAID (and you can get hardware SATA controllers for £50 these days) then you can assign a hot-spare, and hot-swap a replacement drive with zero downtime. With hardware RAID you can still boot if one of the drives fails, but you do add the controller as a potential point-of-failure. Would the system keeping running if I used a CF or SSD for the system install and the HD drive died? - Grant signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
[gentoo-user] Not getting cron emais that should go to root user
For a long time I haven't gotten cron reports from one particular box on my network. I've been seeing these lines in my /var/log/cron.log file: 27-Jul-09 12:00 unable to exec /usr/lib/sendmail -t, user -oem, output to sink null27-Jul-09 12:09 failed user root parsing pr 2002; Thilo Bangert bang...@gentoo.org I don't know why it's trying to use sendmail; I use exim. The server is actually on the same box that's giving me this problem, but the other two boxes on the network use ssmtp forwarding to forward their mail to this box, and I get their cron reports. There's nothing in the exim logs about this.
Re: [gentoo-user] {OT} SSD instead of RAID1?
Florian Philipp schrieb: Where I work, we have a System-on-a-Chip (SoC) NAS. Albeit being the second most powerful machine we have in our server room (quad core CPU, lots of RAM, three redundant power supplies and a good dozen HDDs), the OSS itself resides on a removable card not bigger than my thumb. Err, I don't know if I really have to make this clarification, but I don't want to spread false nomenclature: Of course, the system I describe is not really an SoC because not all components reside on a single chip. Actually, only the basic input/output system and persistent storage are built as an SoC or, to be more precise, as a System-in-a-Package (SiP). signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-user] {OT} SSD instead of RAID1?
On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 10:43 AM, Florian Philipp li...@f_philipp.fastmail.net wrote: Grant schrieb: snip You don't need to buy SSD drives - instead you could use CF cards and a cheap adaptor. These are commensurate in capacity cost with USB flash drives (4gig, maybe 16gig?), but CF cards talk EIDE and you can get cheap pin-convertors allowing you to connect them to EIDE cables and treat them like a hard-drive. Aren't CF cards much slower than SSD drives and HD drives? snip If you really need to write to the CFDisk, make sure to buy one with DMA support (and no, the label super fast which is regularly found on these things does not necessarily mean that it supports DMA). One thing to watch out for if you do go the CF/DMA route - be careful what CF-IDE/SATA adapter you buy - in an embedded control system project I worked on a few years ago, we went CF + adapter for the primary OS driver, got a super-fast 4GB CF card, and couldn't use the speed of it at all, because the cheapo CF adapter we got was so electrically noisy across the physical adapter pins, that DMA reads/writes would fail, and the speed would get auto-reduced to PIO. Very, very, very annoying. If you get a CF adapter, make sure to spend the extra $5-20 (or however much, I haven't priced in quite a while) to get something that will be compatible with the transfer speeds that you are wanting to use. -James
[gentoo-user] Re: Not getting cron emais that should go to root user
On 07/27/2009 10:58 AM, Michael Sullivan wrote: For a long time I haven't gotten cron reports from one particular box on my network. I've been seeing these lines in my /var/log/cron.log file: 27-Jul-09 12:00 unable to exec /usr/lib/sendmail -t, user -oem, output to sink null27-Jul-09 12:09 failed user root parsing pr 2002; Thilo Bangertbang...@gentoo.org I don't know why it's trying to use sendmail; I use exim... My setup is very basic compared to yours, but on this machine I have /usr/lib/sendmail - /usr/sbin/ssmtp Is your sendmail a symlink also?
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: [nfs] nfs mount settings
On Monday 27 July 2009 16:47:30 Harry Putnam wrote: Stroller strol...@stellar.eclipse.co.uk writes: Further to A McK's reply, suggest use of `ls -ln`. Assuming the -n is supported on Slowaris all will become clear. But after the changes mentioned in a reply to Alan M. it now shows the same on both the source /projects (on solaris) and the mounted nfs /projects on gentoo. ls -ln (on solaris) ls -ln /projects total 18 drwxr-xr-x 2 1000 10 5 2009-07-25 18:46 bookmks drwxrwxrwx 9 1000 15 10 2009-07-13 08:38 harvey drwxr-xr-x 3 1000 15 3 2009-01-21 18:22 mob1 drwxr-xr-x 32 1000 15 34 2009-06-24 07:35 reader_rdr [...] = ls -ln (on gentoo) total 18 drwxr-xr-x+ 2 1000 10 5 Jul 25 18:46 bookmks drwxrwxrwx 9 1000 15 10 Jul 13 08:38 harvey drwxr-xr-x+ 3 1000 15 3 Jan 21 2009 mob1 drwxr-xr-x+ 32 1000 15 34 Jun 24 07:35 reader_rdr [...] The only difference I see is the `+' on gentoo. I'm not sure what that means. It usually means there's an ACL attached to that dir/file -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: [nfs] nfs mount settings
On Monday 27 July 2009 16:40:43 Harry Putnam wrote:
Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com writes:
There is nothing much you can do about this except:
Renumber your gid's locally to match the nfs server,
or renumber the nfs share gids to match your local machine
Looking into that I noticed, as you thought the gid of the share on
solaris is alphabetic wheel but numeric 15. Which is the gid of
`man' on gentoo.
But I noticed the gid 16 is not taken on the gentoo os so promoted man
to gid 16 and changed wheel from 10 to 15.
Logging my user out and back in I see the gid 15 now is wheel so the
same as solaris.
When you do this, you only change the username attached to the gid. Remember
that the filesystem does not know or care what username you use, it only knows
about gids. You now need to find every file group owned by man's old gid and
chown it to man's new gid. Put another way, the man groups files now appear to
belong to the wheel group, and the wheel group's files are orphaned. This
ought to do it:
- umount nfs shares
- find / -gid 15 -exec chown :16 {} +;
- find / -gid 10 -exec chown :15 {} +;
- mount nfs shares
You must establish for yourself if any files were created meanwhile with gid
10 or 15 and take steps to deal with those specially.
Having my user mount the nfs ... it ends up `reader:wheel'. Both are
my users uid and one of his gids so now both the uid and gid match
those on the solaris OS where user reader:wheel owns the source
directory. (also /projects on solaris box).
But with all that in place a copy using `-a' still causes the the
same error warning.
Let's try something stupid :-)
cp -a is a GNU extension IIRC, and Solaris userland does not support it.
Try cp -pr just for fun
Also, there's an ACL on that file (the +). What are those rules, determined by
getfacl? It shouldn't make a difference as ACLs cannot take away a user's
permissions. But SELinux can ... offhand I cannot think of anything on Solaris
that works similarly - anything ring a bell here about your nfs server?
What are your mount options on the client side, and the relevant line in
exports on the server side?
ls -l /projects/it
-rw-r--r--+ 1 reader wheel 0 Jul 27 09:17 /projects/it
cp -a /projects/it /projects/it2
cp: preserving permissions for `/projects/it2':
Operation not supported
ls -l /projects/it2
-rw-r--r--+ 1 reader wheel 0 Jul 27 09:17 /projects/it2
==
user reader (on gentoo) running command id -a
uid=1000(reader) gid=1000(reader) groups=15(wheel),16(man),
250(portage),1000(reader)
user reader (on solaris) running command id -a
uid=1000(reader) gid=10(staff) groups=10(staff),3(sys),4
(adm),15(wheel)
==
And the nfs source directory is also set-gid (by user reader)
ls -ld /projects (on solaris server)
drwxr-sr-x 14 reader wheel 17 2009-07-27 09:29 /projects
--
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Firefox 3.0.12 emerge dies
On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 5:57 AM, waltw41...@gmail.com wrote: On 07/26/2009 01:25 PM, Walter Dnes wrote: I've been unsuccessfully trying to build the latest security patch version of Firefox 3.0. I keep getting the same error message after 3 days of re-syncing and retrying. The build dies early on in the patch-appliaction stage, so log.txt is small. The error message also mentioned to include the contents of the patch .out file, which I have done as log2.txt. Any ideas? My ~amd64 machine skipped that version and went to 3.5.1 instead. Is there a particular reason you don't want to do that? Possibly because it's not marked stable? After your post I looked at emerging it on my amd64 machine but it requires that I start emerging other testing packages so I decided why bother? I'll wait. - Mark
[gentoo-user] Re: cloning + upgrade howto?
Neil Bothwick wrote: On Mon, 27 Jul 2009 09:33:37 +0100, Nevynxxx wrote: emerge -uavDN @world xfce4 Only if your portage supports @world, not sure if mine does yet :) It should, unless you are woefully out of date. Not true: the versions of portage that support sets (including @world) are all hardmasked currently. -- ABCD
[gentoo-user] Re: Firefox 3.0.12 emerge dies
On 07/27/2009 02:08 PM, Mark Knecht wrote: On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 5:57 AM, waltw41...@gmail.com wrote: On 07/26/2009 01:25 PM, Walter Dnes wrote: I've been unsuccessfully trying to build the latest security patch version of Firefox 3.0. I keep getting the same error message after 3 days of re-syncing and retrying. The build dies early on in the patch-appliaction stage, so log.txt is small. The error message also mentioned to include the contents of the patch .out file, which I have done as log2.txt. Any ideas? My ~amd64 machine skipped that version and went to 3.5.1 instead. Is there a particular reason you don't want to do that? Possibly because it's not marked stable?... 3.0.12 is also marked unstable, so I assumed that Walter (the other one) is running an unstable gentoo. Because these rapid updates to firefox are all security patches it would be nice to get the latest one...
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: cloning + upgrade howto?
On Mon, 27 Jul 2009 17:39:27 -0400, ABCD wrote: It should, unless you are woefully out of date. Not true: the versions of portage that support sets (including @world) are all hardmasked currently. Still? I unmasked them ages ago, but though that had all been sorted out by now. But yes, sets are about the only recent portage feature not supported by the stable version, my bad. -- Neil Bothwick Where do forest rangers go to get away from it all? signature.asc Description: PGP signature
[gentoo-user] Re: 5.b. Default: Using a Stage from the Internet
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Xavier Parizet wrote: On Mon, 27 Jul 2009 22:49:58 +1000, Brenton brentons.ho...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, Having a go at installing Gentoo don't really know what I'm doing. Seems to be an error with the file I've downloaded. Should I try download again? You just have to download stage3-x86-2008.0.tar.bz2.CONTENTS, which is at the same location than the stage and the DIGESTS you download... So, don't worry, your stage seems to be OK ! HTH. livecd gentoo # md5sum -c stage3-x86-2008.0.tar.bz2.DIGESTS ./stage3-x86-2008.0.tar.bz2: OK md5sum: ./stage3-x86-2008.0.tar.bz2.CONTENTS: No such file or directory ./stage3-x86-2008.0.tar.bz2.CONTENTS: FAILED open or read md5sum: WARNING: 1 of 2 listed files could not be read Portage seemed to be fine: livecd gentoo # md5sum -c portage-latest.tar.bz2.md5sum portage-latest.tar.bz2: OK Thanks, Brenton. Personally, I would suggest using a newer stage3 than 2008.1; there are new stage3 tarballs generated every week in [1]. You probably want the stage3-i686-*.tar.bz2 file. (The *-i486-* files are for systems older than or otherwise not compatible with the Pentium Pro, IIRC). [1] http://distfiles.gentoo.org/releases/x86/autobuilds/ - -- ABCD -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.11 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkpuIN4ACgkQOypDUo0oQOpZ+wCfWkrv8aLYpTYpObxfydnqfSHJ MXEAnRtqV2cMjYVGae6n8ZEGnT7mtwMb =jVzS -END PGP SIGNATURE-
[gentoo-user] Re: Re: cloning + upgrade howto?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Neil Bothwick wrote: On Mon, 27 Jul 2009 17:39:27 -0400, ABCD wrote: It should, unless you are woefully out of date. Not true: the versions of portage that support sets (including @world) are all hardmasked currently. Still? I unmasked them ages ago, but though that had all been sorted out by now. But yes, sets are about the only recent portage feature not supported by the stable version, my bad. I believe the mask is still in place because of a couple issues with sets, as well as issues with FEATURES=preserve-libs. - -- ABCD -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.11 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkpuIVYACgkQOypDUo0oQOpGUQCfWsKt5U5eTEVP4d7jFyGJovYS +SoAmgM1wW3lDgsgagNezODCSfcR/GiA =/dA2 -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Firefox 3.0.12 emerge dies
On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 2:46 PM, waltw41...@gmail.com wrote: On 07/27/2009 02:08 PM, Mark Knecht wrote: On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 5:57 AM, waltw41...@gmail.com wrote: On 07/26/2009 01:25 PM, Walter Dnes wrote: I've been unsuccessfully trying to build the latest security patch version of Firefox 3.0. I keep getting the same error message after 3 days of re-syncing and retrying. The build dies early on in the patch-appliaction stage, so log.txt is small. The error message also mentioned to include the contents of the patch .out file, which I have done as log2.txt. Any ideas? My ~amd64 machine skipped that version and went to 3.5.1 instead. Is there a particular reason you don't want to do that? Possibly because it's not marked stable?... 3.0.12 is also marked unstable, so I assumed that Walter (the other one) is running an unstable gentoo. Because these rapid updates to firefox are all security patches it would be nice to get the latest one... Yeah, I agree. I wanted 3.0.12 also as 3.0.11 apparently has a security bug but I felt like 3.5 was probably a jump to big. Cheers, Mark
[gentoo-user] Grub error 15: file not found
Hi, When I try to edit the /dev/sda to /dev/hda I'm not sure how to save my change when I edit in grub. I make a change then go back to check and it never saves. I'm only trying to follow the Gentoo Linux x86 Handbook. Thanks, Brenton. -- This electronic communication (including any attached files) may contain confidential and/or legally privileged information and is only intended for the viewing purposes of the person to whom it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, you do not have permission to read, use, disseminate, distribute, copy or retain any part of this communication or its attachments in any form. If you receive this email in error, please contact us by email and delete all copies. attachment: Picture 4.png
Re: [gentoo-user] Grub error 15: file not found
On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 5:16 PM, Brentonbrentons.ho...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, When I try to edit the /dev/sda to /dev/hda I'm not sure how to save my change when I edit in grub. I make a change then go back to check and it never saves. I'm only trying to follow the Gentoo Linux x86 Handbook. Thanks, Brenton. Brenton, I only edit there to test something I've broken and am not sure of the answer. Editing there doesn't, to the best of my knowledge, ever edit the /boot/grub/grub.conf file. If my fix worked and the system boots, then after it boots I mount /boot and edit grub.conf by hand using vi. Hope this helps, Mark
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Firefox 3.0.12 emerge dies
On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 02:46:55PM -0700, walt wrote 3.0.12 is also marked unstable, so I assumed that Walter (the other one) is running an unstable gentoo. Because these rapid updates to firefox are all security patches it would be nice to get the latest one... Contrary to what some people may say, I'm quite quite stable G, and so is my Gentoo system. But I do enable a few security patches early by keywording the specific build before it gets moved to stable. Right now I'm using Opera temporarily. -- Walter Dnes waltd...@waltdnes.org
[gentoo-user] Re: [nfs] nfs mount settings
Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com writes:
[...]
Logging my user out and back in I see the gid 15 now is wheel so the
same as solaris.
When you do this, you only change the username attached to the gid. Remember
that the filesystem does not know or care what username you use, it only
knows
about gids. You now need to find every file group owned by man's old gid and
chown it to man's new gid. Put another way, the man groups files now appear
to
belong to the wheel group, and the wheel group's files are orphaned. This
ought to do it:
- umount nfs shares
- find / -gid 15 -exec chown :16 {} +;
Not many files have group man... mainly /var/cache/man/*
- find / -gid 10 -exec chown :15 {} +;
- mount nfs shares
I'm working on that... but that would only get to files NOT on the nfs
mount. Far as on the nfs mount...where the `cp -a' problem is, the
numeric gids are the same on all machines now.
[...]
But with all that in place a copy using `-a' still causes the the
same error warning.
Let's try something stupid :-)
cp -a is a GNU extension IIRC, and Solaris userland does not support it.
Try cp -pr just for fun
The server is opensolaris.. which has lots of gnus tools... including
cp -a, but just making sure:
cd /projects
touch file
cp -rp file file2
cp: preserving permissions for `file2': Operation not supported
Also, there's an ACL on that file (the +). What are those rules, determined
by
getfacl? It shouldn't make a difference as ACLs cannot take away a user's
permissions. But SELinux can ... offhand I cannot think of anything on
Solaris
that works similarly - anything ring a bell here about your nfs server?
getfacl doesn't show anything as an acl...
getfacl file
# file: file
# owner: reader
# group: wheel
user::rw-
group::r--
mask::rwx
other::r--
What are your mount options on the client side, and the relevant line in
I posted those already.. `noauto,users,exec,dev,suid'
exports on the server side?
opensolaris running zfs filesystem doesn't use an exports list.
nfs exporting is done by using the:
`zfs set sharenfs=on' cmd on the desired member of a zfs filesystem.
I don't really know what the defaults are and not really sure how to
find out either.
I've run into something more serious in the course of investigating
about the nfs mount... a reboot of gentoo has shown that I have no
keyboard or mouse once I turn X on.
So the nfs stuff will have to wait its working well enough for me
to work on the mounted filesystem for now anyway.
